>>29012714
>why don't you guys like electric power steering?
It's laggy

Oh man, you’ve triggered an autistic rant. Let me get my ass out of bed and on the PC…

I do like it. I love light steering with no feel unironically. It makes long drives feel comfy

>>29012717
in what way? don't electrical signals travel at near light speed?

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>>29012721
Okay. I've been driving a while 25 years or so.
Electric steering is my SINGLE BIGGEST complaint about modern cars. Not the wet belts, not the screens, it's the e-steering.
I have a JL Wrangler and a '99 Miata. Driving that Wrangler is a bitch, I hate it, and the steering is the ONLY reason I don't like it. I had a JK Wrangler with the same engine and transmission, but it wasn't like this at all.
---I get in a modern car and I am constantly [[micromanaging]] the steering wheel. Why won't it just go straight? Why is this so difficult? Every little rut and bump in the road throws it off and you have to react after the fact.
I get in my '99 with hydraulic steering and it's not like that. I don't even think about steering, it's shocking how much easier it is to drive and how much calmer I am when driving it. I cannot express how big of a deal this is, my mind should be on the road ahead, not on keeping the vehicle straight. And yes, I've driven other e-steer vehicles.
Fuck this shit, it's a night and day difference. I genuinely think e-steering is unsafe and should be banned. And I'm not the kind of guy who usually wants anything to be banned.

>>29012727
The processors interpreting them don't.

>>29012717
look at this badass here! we got the Flash with his nanosecond reflexes and can detect the 700 microseconds of latency in the system!

>>29012729
>>29012729
that processing delay has to be in the single or double digit milliseconds range and that's being generous, can you really notice that?

>>29012746
The real problem is the feedback. In a car with normal hydraulic steering, you can feel physically that the wheel is turning, and react in that moment. With electric steering, there's very little feedback, even in cars with good ES (new Miata). That means you can only react once you're already going off track, as the only feedback you get for steering is visually looking for which direction the car is pointed. Also as >>29012728 said, electric steering doesn't seem to handle gentle sweeping changes well at all. Maybe that will change in the future, but there's plenty of roads near me where I barely had to steer my hydraulic car because it just followed the road, but have to actively steer my newer car because it doesn't.

>>29012714
I love the EPS in my giulia, it feels great. but being totally fair, hydraulic racks are going to be more raw with otherwise identical setups

>>29012746
It’s more like 50ms (way worse on teslas).
>inb4 “I can’t tell the difference between 0ms/LAN and 50ms when gaming
This is about the difference in display latency of a TV vs a gaming monitor, and literally eveyone notices that.
>independent tests measuring the physical delay between rapid steering wheel inputs and the steering rack/wheels turning at low speeds have observed delays of 125ms

>>29012752
It’s definitely better than any BMW I’ve driven, but then I get back in my RX-7 and it’s a million times better still.

Electric system are a binary failure, you don't want that shit. Especially if you actually like to have fun with your car in corners you don't want that leggy as fuck input delay system cut out suddenly from a blown fuse, shot sensor, or broken wire. At least with former systems, failures were detected prior to critical failure like a sluggish pump or squeal.

Also steer by wire / electric slop like that has input delay unlike the other systems which gives you proper dynamic feedback live.

If you're a bug person, I'm sure you'll be fine with that trash system but for real men who actually drive. Fuck that shit.

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>>29012746

>>29013234
oh.

its for sissies
hydraulic steering is for even bigger sissies, real men drive rack an pinion

>>29012728
>Every little rut and bump in the road throws it off and you have to react after the fact.

That's called feedback and that's actually what enthusiasts are looking for. Everyone complaining about modern steering is complaining about the opposite issue of where the wheel doesn't react at all and feels light as hell.

>>29013234
And there's people who defend this shit omegakek

>>29013268
That’s literally the opposite of feedback. Feedback is when you feel it and instinctually respond. Having no feedback and having to use your focus on responding, after the fact, to every little thing is not ideal.

>>29013234
That's not because it's electronic power steering, that's because it's steer by wire. you can't do this in an eps car.

>>29012717
If you've ever used a sim rig, eps in an actual car feels basically lag free. again, it's not steering the car for you, it's just assisting your steering that's directly connected to the wheels. You could turn off eps completely at speed and it would be the same as not running powersteering at all.

I've owned 4 cars with eps now, s2000, frs, maverick, mach e. Never once have I sat there and said "gee I sure wish I had a bunch of extra shit that can leak and go bad so I can have 0.1% more steering feel.".

I've had 2 friends now have their power steering leak on the track. I've had it happen to me 0 times. EPS is simply superior.

Just to be contrarian, I would even go as far as to say every EPS I've used feels better than any hydraulic system I've used.

>>29012728
My equinox has electric steering and I don't have to micromanage it, that's something I only gotta do in my old chevy van where the steering is so loose you're actively working at all times to keep the thing on the road. Maybe the wrangler is just particularly ass?

>>29012727
In a perfect world a perfect engineer is able to spec a perfect motor and have perfect programming so that it controls the steering perfectly as needed.
In the real world that engineer's choices get cost cut down to some "functionally acceptable minimum" and the programming is rushed and the unit that gets put in a car is dogshit.

Stop living in the imagination land of perfect ideas/perfect ideals and realize the real world is a mess and people fuck it up all the time.

i love my eps with adjustable force
another thing only poorfags are seething over

>>29013320
I have electro-hydraulic so i get both feedback and adjustable assist, so lower your tone, pleb

>>29012714
I like the idea that the direction and speed of the car are mechanically controlled to make assassination attempts more difficult.
>b-but you shouldn't worry about that
>b-but planes are fly by wire
You say fuck the government and fuck the corporations, yet you blindly trust all the digital, wirelessly connected systems they're in control of and force you to use. Or maybe you just do the latter part. Either way you're stupid.

Guys, I'm drunk, but hear me out
What if there was an analog electric steering? Like if you had some kind of a dynamo on the steering rack, when you turn it, it spins the connected motor. No processors to ruin everything, it's all purely analog

>>29013344
the only reason i'd think OP's question is even a worthwhile question is if it was about steer by wire

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Pretty based.
Its been solved for so long, i don't get why Tesla had hydraulic in early Roadster instead of just buying the GM parts from... mid 90s?

>>29013234
Wow that's a noticeable delay. At high speeds that must feel like shit

>>29013344
Sounds like you're trying to remake a circle with an oval. Hydros just can't be beat dude.

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>>29013262
What now? What now, motherfucker?!

>>29013405
>heavier
>more complicates
>more points of failure
>more parasitic loss
Nah

What's the least old car that has no assisted steering of any kind?

Every car with EPS I've driven has absolutely dogshit steering feel.

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>>29013418

>>29012728
Are you sure your problem is steering and not FWD vs RWD? I have a 2014 Focus and never micro manage the steering, I have a 1994 F150 and constantly have to micromanage the steering. Probably needs some tightening.

>>29013451
2021 Lotus Elise and Exige, 2020 Alfa 4C, 2014 Tata Nano

>>29012714
I went with a manual rack.

>>29012728
>I have a JL Wrangler
Stopped reading there. Retard buys a shitty car and its shitty.

>>29013234
That's not a response delay though. That's the motors operating slow

>>29013405
*Leaks*

Electric Hydraulic FTW

>>29013893
>15 dollar rebuild
Not a problem. Also I'd take a leak over a total failure (electronics either work or don't there is no inbetween) because it will warn me to service the system before catastrophe
>>29013434
Found the arm chair engineer who got sold off the suits marketing. One is born everyday.
>More points of failure
Not really, that's like saying you would want a electronically actuated braking system because there's diaphragms and lines.
>more complicated
I'd take a slightly sophisticated mechanical system over a software based all or nothing failure system that electronics bring (its a skill issue if you can't comprehend hydraulics)
>Heckin parasitic loss
Inevitable byproduct of having physical shit interact with other physical shit in the real world. You'd be smarter targeting a driveline PL or the gearing than to go after the steering system for PL.
>Yous a whack ass sucka MC

>>29013993
*Leaks again*

>>29012714
>no parasitic, power robbing
Its crazy how the fundamentals are never covered any more.

I watched a cool video of a professional bicyclist on a stationary bike hooked up to a generator who was sweating harder than competition trying to make 2 pieces of toast with an 800w toaster plugged into it.
With the toaster off it freewheels with no resistance.

The same thing happens with your car for all the electronics. You just dont notice it because your wngine has power to spare.

Are there any relatively new cars that still utilize hydraulic steering?
I dread the day that I'll have to sell my E46. I've driven loaners and family's cars and they all felt worse than a fuckin video game wheel.

>>29013993
>Heckin
Post discarded

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You know how the CIA can shut down an EV. Sorry John, your life subscription just expired.

>>29013234
That's a completely different setup to a traditional electronic assist steering column like in the OP pic.

>>29014118
>traditional
>electronic
LMAO

>>29012714
>no hoses or fluids to leak or replace
Bit of a non-issue, power steering components run problem free for a lot of miles before components need replacing and rebuilding.
>no parasitic, power robbing pump to run constantly
You can get an electric pump for your hydraulic system so this point is moot
>steering feel and effort can be adjusted to be light or heavy
So can my hydraulic system

>>29014121
Yes there are traditional electronic power steering setups which have been in use for at least a decade at this point, probably longer, and then there's the radical new unprecedented "steer by wire" of the Cyber Truck which is completely different.
Don't try to conflate the two, as they operate completely differently.

>>29014126
A decade is not "traditional", child.

>>29014089
And the same doesn't apply for the belt attached to a power steering pump?

>>29014117
Any car with an ECU and phone home system can do the same. Doesn't matter EV or ICE.

>>29014147
Just looked it up, over 35 years
Go be a sperg somewhere else

>>29014156
100% correct, just using Tesla as an example.

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>>29014117
After the pager attacks and epstein+dutroux showing our governments are complete slaves to demonic jews, you can’t trust any modern car.
Eventually they’ll roll out patches to all modern cars that will cause accidents id your goy-score falls below their “acceptable” threshold. No one will notice anything, but all their enemies will suddenly start dying in “tragic” accidents.

>>29014156
*Any car made after 2016 can

Before 2016 specfically, cars weren't snitches.

>>29014064
>blows capacitor
>sensor(s) shit the bed
Drip drip faggot
>>29014110
I'm making fun of you bitch
>>29014156
Nope. Only cars made past 2016 got black boxes.

>>29014186
At that stage will people accept motorcycles are safer? Probably not.

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>>29013279
>If you've ever used a sim rig
A gaymer!
>>29013279
>s2000, frs, maverick, mach e
And a faggot, to boot!

>>29013469
at least on the 1988 F150 I have the steering column is known to develop excessive play. I managed to tighten it up by adding some shims but I should probably be replacing it. I also tightened the steering box adjustment screw a little bit and those two things made the truck much better to drive.

>>29014261
and by the steering column I meant the telescopic steering shaft

>>29014106
Why do BMW ricers care so much about the steering system on here? You're literally on McDonald's struts and youre bitching about the rack being electric? It could be a manual rack and the car still wouldn't handle for shit.

>>29014212
>implying they won't use other goy cattle as missiles
Ive got a carb, manual rack, manual basically everything and I'm under no such delusion this keeps me safe from the international jew

>>29014208

Only first worlders who NEED to COOOOOOONECT.

Got cars in my country that come brand new with zero emissions, sometimes no radio, no mister option on the wipers, etc.

>>29012728
I have a Corolla hybrid and it's not like that. sounds like a jeep problem

>>29012714
>2016 acura mdx
>electric power steering (probably because lane-keep features)
>driven for years, never even noticed
>one day it snows a lot
>try getting out of this poorly plowed lot so i can get home
>steering just gives up
>cant turn the wheel
>warning messages in dash about steering failure
>oh good another expensive repair
>leave car there, find another way home
>next day start diagnosing
>steering still inop, after a few minutes the warnings disappear
>steering works fine now
>what the actual fuck
>dig deeper
>steering system triggered some reaction threshold and shut down because the snow confused the sensors or something
>a timed self-diagnosis routine brought it back when it felt like it
>this doesnt happen with my older cars

tldr; never noticed a difference in lag or feel, but making things 'better' by adding computers and sensors is retarded

>>29014106
2019 maserati granturismo

this thread is proof that car enthusiasts are largely hopelessly retarded about anything 'lectric (no teslatard redditors do not qualify as automotive enthusiasts). EPS can be made to feel great. A single assist motor will always weigh less than the pulley, pump, cylinder, filter, reservoir, cooler, hoses... The alternator is already there to power the EPS, it's just a superior solution. Most HPS cars had shit steering feel, just like most EPS cars. E90 beemers have hydraulic assisted steering and it feels like trash. They switched to EPS for F30 and it felt just as bad, only slightly more precise.

>>29014652
the R8 lms gt3 is steer by wire and its one of the best gt cars of the last decade

>>29014652
You're a retard for thinking new = always good

Lectric has its place, and there's areas it objectively does not have a place in. You'd understand the nuance if you weren't a fucking autist

>>29014683
is this bait? steer by wire means no physical connection between the steering wheel and rack, like on the cybertruck. The lms gt3 does have a steering column, and it apparantly uses some crazy integrated selfcontained EHPS rack. Interesting but irrelevant for road cars

>>29014702
where did I claim that, eps is objectively superior for multiple reasons, being a newer technology has fuckall to do with it. Have fun with 15yo hydraulic fluid and the resulting damage (nobody ever changes that shit)

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>>29014703
>The lms gt3 does have a steering column
literally fake news

>>29014652
BMWs all have trash steering because they have trash designers. Saying e90’s have trash steering therefore every hydraulic rack is trash is a clever strawman though.

>>29014719
it’s literally $200 to buy a rebuilt hydraulic rack (I just did it, labor was another $150). Meanwhile EPS was always trash, is trash, and always will be trash. There’s no fixing stupid.

>>29014719
>Have fun pouring fluids in that only takes at most 1 afternoon
Have fun spending thousands (if you can even buy it) replacing all of those various sensors.
>Old is Gold but you can't fathom that because you're a sucker sold on marketing

>>29014273
/thread

>>29014211
*Leaks again, again*

>>29014954
>He ran out of things to say
Many such cases for the mindless bug people

>>29013451
Westfield and Caterham are still making unassisted cars, as are the smaller Seven type manufacturers

I don’t think Radical or Ultima offer it either but those can’t really be considered road cars even though they’re road legal

I don't mind the electric power steering in my Caprice but most other electric steering systems just feel wrong. Can't feel the road in the others.

>muh hps muh eps
Steering feel is primarily a result of steering/suspension geometry and alignment.

>>29015120
And tires as well.

>>29012746
>that processing delay has to be in the single or double digit milliseconds rannge
That's actually significant and can be felt

>>29014211
>i-i'm making fun of you, b-bitch

>>29014155
Yes.
That's the point.
OP stated that there is no "parasitic power loss" on drive by wire. Which is a lie.

>>29015038
*Leaks too*

>>29015120
why does every car with eps have dogshit steering/suspension geometry and alignment?

>>29016234
the pump on a hps car is constantly running, even when you're stopped at a light. that's parasitic drag/power loss. there is no pump to run on an EPS car when you're stopped.

>>29017178
when the internal field of an alternator is turned on, you cannot turn the pulley by hand, and that is with no draw. The pulley gets even harder to turn when it's pumping 50 quintillion electrons per second into a battery or through a motor.

>>29017178
>Imagine giving a shit about parasitic loss WHEN AT A COMPLETE STOP
Do techfags really? Why are these bugpeople consistently short sighted and obsessed with paper stats and gimmicks?

>>29017316
yes. it’s some weird form of autism, where they are only able to talk in the form of spec sheets and numbers. They can’t actually enjoy anything (aside from telling you how much smarter they are, while they make retarded decisions).

>>29014273
this kek

>>29017042
>why does every car with eps have dogshit steering/suspension geometry and alignment?
Boy you have never touched a wrench in your life kek

>>29017320
In the industry we call that sub-class of autism cerebral narcssism. Look into it if you really want some laughs

I hate it, 0 feedback and the steering just feels wrong, like playing a video game with one of those wheels.

>>29017178
>skipped class on the day they discussed "load"....

>>29012714
Maybe check "Just Rolled In", retard. Electric steering is an absolute fucking disaster. It's the CVT of steering assemblies.

>>29017365
>0 feedback
Kys faggot wrenchlet

>>29017987
>just check 100% stolen niggerwagons
Like watching fucking gold rush to get an opinion on which brand excavator is the bestest

>>29013460
kek

>>29012714
>steering feel and effort can be adjusted to be light or heavy
Where is that button at?

>>29013342
electric steering isn't steer by wire.
in electric power steering, the steering wheel is still mechanically connected to the steering rack through the steering column.
the only vehicle sold in america that isn't built this way is the cybertruck.

>>29018886
This is true, since steering is kinda important and not yet ready like throttle-by-wire, but it must be reminded to proponents of EPS that a lot of new cars with lane-keep or avoidance technologies will directly act on the steering without any input on the driver, technology not often or ever seen with hydraulic or traditional racks.
That shit gives me the fucking willies.

>>29012714
No EPAS system has the feel of a hydraulic system. If you notice, car reviewers never talk about steering feel any more, because there's nothing to say, it doesn't exist on modern cars.

>>29014089
smart alternators only kick in on deceleration

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>>29018825

you can just have a manual rack and have no ps at all.

everyone complaining about eps having no steering feel drives a piece of shit that hasn't seen an alignment rack in a decade.

>>29012728
your jeep drives badly because it's a solid front axle you dumb nigger, has nothing to do with eps
go get an alignment done by someone who isn't crosseyed

literally all of steering feel is in your front end alignment and has absolutely nothing to do with the type of power assist. plenty of hydro ps cars are numb and lifeless, even more so than electric because the fluid dampens vibration. electric racks let you feel everything.

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>>29012728
>>29013469
>>29013286
>>29014422
>I have a JL wrangler
>I have a 2014 focus
>my equinox
>I have a corolla hybrid
Holy fuck do you guys drive ANYTHING even remotely worth talking about. Who fucking cares about steering feel in ANY of these cars. They are npc commuter shitboxes. Every single one. The engineering goal is to make the most dull and boring driving experience as possible for normies. Who fucking cares. Drive something interesting that actually handles well and then, and only then, are you allowed to comment on steering feel.

>>29019050
>The engineering goal is to make the most dull and boring driving experience as possible
Something that EPS truly excels at

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>>29019054
Here's your (You)

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>>29019050
this
always some npc complaining and trying to make old good new bad argument without having any technical knowledge whatsoever

as i said, steering feel comes from alignment, most cars have a toed-in alignment from factory for responsive steering and to promote understeer over oversteer in extremes. this also negates the lateral load on the steering rack so you can't really feel what the front wheels are doing, which is fine to a normoid but drives autistic auto midwits batty and they blame technology rather than human nature.

>>29014089
EPS only needs power when you actually steer. Hydraulic parasitic losses are permanent and in addition to the actual power used to support steering. Simply pumping hydraulic fluid around costs energy.

>>29014123
>You can get an electric pump for your hydraulic system so this point is moot
That doesn't change the fact that this pump must run constantly to keep the system running. The parasitic losses are in the hydraulic part itself.

>>29019050
30 years ago commuter shitboxes had better steering feel than your average 2020s sports car

that's part of the problem; gatekeeping it from "normie cars" makes everything a little shittier to own

>>29019074
wrong

>>29019079
>60 years ago the average pickup with a recirculating ball steering box had better steering feel than your average 2020s sports car

>>29018900
>car runs off battery unless its coming ro a stop....

>>29019024
>everyone complaining about eps having no steering feel drives a piece of shit that hasn't seen an alignment rack in a decade.
all the alignment racks in the world won't save them from their own unwillingness to replace bushings that are old enough to drive and cracked enough to win a counterstrike tournament

>>29012714
idk I like my Volvo's electric power steering, only complaint I have is that it's a bit heavy but I've gotten used to it