>>29022165
>EVs are boring, my ICE car isn't
Most ICE cars on the road are FWD 110hp shitboxes that can barely beat a hill without shifting to first gear and seeing the tiny box barely crawl its way above the hill. I think most EVs are more fun than most ICE cars on the road. However EVs will never replace the thrill of a V8, and shouldn't either.

>>29022165
It's because they don't burn petroleum fuels. That's it. That's the only reason.

There is very little organic reason for a regular end-use consumer to have any hard coded opinion on the topic at all, outside of niche applications like towing a horse trailer or something.

>>29022165
I don’t care if you or anyone else owns an EV, it personally would be the ideal car for my every day use case.

There are a couple main things I dislike when it comes to EVs
> I don’t want to be forced to replace every car in my fleet with one because it is suboptimal for winter driving and road trips
> I don’t want everyone else to be forced to own one, because electricity prices will spike, and the US has limited battery manufacturing capacity relative to China

If you go through the cost/benefit analysis and decide an EV is right for you then so be it. But I would prefer to have a choice

Electricity costs more than gas these days. This isn't going to change, but get worse. I'm not eating cost "for duh environment"

I am once again begging for someone to make a sub $50k ev convertible.
it doesn’t have to be that sporty
I know the range will suffer
please just stop letting the only cheap evs be crossovers

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Benzin is fun. It's cheap and always readily availa-AAAACKKKKKKKK

>>29022166
>that can barely beat a hill without shifting to first gear and seeing the tiny box barely crawl its way above the hill.
Do Americans even understand this sentence?

>>29022188
It fucking pisses me off how all they're making are these gay "sport" cabriolets. I don't need 1000hp. Just give me a nice 200hp RWD cabriolet and I'm content. EV and cabriolet go well together.

LOL

>>29022165
Oil companies and car companies make up such a huge amount of the economy and Jewish business interests. Any hate against EVs has Jewish manipulation behind it.

>>29022165

Funny. When I visited Norway, which is probably the most EV friendly nation in the world, all I saw was a bunch of range anxiety. So imagine the problem's I would have in a country where there isn't one single public charging station

>>29022345
How did you see the range anxiety?

>>29022177
>Electricity costs more than gas these days
Provide some numbers because I highly doubt them.

>>29022165
didnt read, don't care, im a fucking ebiker and do not give a shit about curing ev derangement syndrome

>>29022350
it depends where you live but in my province electricity is cheap on paper but the reality is the company juts makes your bill the fuck up and charges you a grand a month if they detect that you're running more than a fridge

>>29022354
Compare the price per range or ranger per price.
If gasoline was actually cheaper you should run your own generators.

>>29022369
Garbage trucks are definitely shifting to electric. Having to stop at every lamppost massively favors EV over ICE and the reduced noise benefits everybody.

>>29022366
>If gasoline was actually cheaper you should run your own generators.
the electric company banned this and literally sends the RCMP to your house if you do it

people still just fuck with illegal solar anyway

>>29022382
You pay some CAD 2 per litre while electricity is 0.2 per kWh.
An efficient ICE car will run you 5l/100km while an EV will need some 15 kWh for that. That's 10 Canadian dollars vs 3.

>>29022414
counterpoint: the electric company Makes It The Fuck Up and will gladly charge you 1000$ in a month for literally no reason

My driving often involves a 600km highway drive where there are no chargers. Otherwise ei would buy an ev. But I don't hate on them. They are definitely fun to drive.

>>29022165
>Fear
of randomly blowing up
>Uncertainty
about when your battery dies, where your next charge is gonna come from
>Doubt
that any of battery shit has anything on petroleum and the engines that use them

>>29022165
Because EVfags lie about everything, primarily the lie that EVs need no maintenance, battery health isn’t a hard cap on the vehicle’s lifespan, and that public charging isn’t total ass. At least they’ve cut back on the “range doesn’t drop in the winter/under load” lie after enough non-cultists got experience with them and the F-150 Lightning got btfo’d in that one towing test video.
>This isn't inherent to EVs.
And yet all of them are like this and always will be.
>Most EV owners don't think an outright ban on ICE cars will benefit EVs.
Kek another lie. Most if not all of your shilling comes from asshurt cope about being a bagholder on a type of vehicle that depreciates like a fucking meteor but still rapes you on insurance. But I'm sure you have better risk assessment about your car than the jewish black box algorithm whose sole purpose is to extract the maximum value from it as possible.

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>>29022165
>Why is there so much FUD against EVs?
Quite literally the Smug radiated by every EV owner for "saving the planet", just as with the Prius in the 2000's, and don't try to deny it. If that weren't true EV shills wouldn't constantly be going off on ICE cars using petroleum products.

>>29022165
I like hybrids but they're complex but the systems that are out there from real manufacturers like Nissan Toyota and Honda basically never have flaws.

>>29022170
95% of them do burn petroleum fuels though. Nobody wants to plug in or unplug their vehicle every time they want to use it.

>>29022732
Honda would literally solve the modern automobile if they’d finally give the civic hybrid awd, but nah we needed that r&d for the prelude’s front suspension.

>>29022743
>awd
What's the point?

>>29022744
To steal awd prius and corolla hybrid sales. It’s already a better car than those two unless you’re a cultist and could actually benefit from it by having enough power to justify the weight.

>>29022350
nta but eg in the UK, in many (not all) charging stations, charging a typical 3kwhr/mile EV yields the sort of pound/mile cost you'd expect from a big v8 or v12. certainly way, WAY more than it costs to put petrol in a modern econobox, especially something like a toyota hybrid.
jayemm had a nice analysis on this recently, iirc, but im sure you can just ask a clanker to do some math based on public data to confirm...

charging at home is almost always cheaper than petrol, tho again, in worst cases, you might still be doing a little worse than a good modern hybrid...

either way tho, if you can charge at home, you also get the massive convenience of waking up every day to a fully charged car and not having to bother with fuel stations at all
and ofc, you also have the other EV advantages: power, quiet, much less maintenance, etc etc

so, as always, it boils down to the same thing:
if you can charge at home, an EV is great
if not, best stick to ICE.

You faggots have EVs, they were government subsidized by taxpayers to get to a point that they can now make and sell them for cheap.
You have what you wanted so pipe down.

>>29022191
the people that buy these cars just hear it get louder, which scares them so they end up going slower

>>29022808
you're right, the ev market is doing pretty well considering its ~10years old
unfortunately, we still need a little bit of government intervention to help apartment dwellers

homeowners typically have a garage with a power outlet, and if by some chance their garage doesn't, its easy enough to call an electrician and add one
but apartment dwellers, even if they actually own the apartment, don't have the right to start construction in the garage to add an outlet or a charger

and certainly the landlords/corps that own apartment buildings aren't goign to voluntarily decide to pay to add chargers, at least not until a significant portion of renters are ev owners and are treating charging availability as a big factor in deciding where to rent.
but then, in order for a significant portion of renters to become ev owners, they first need to be able to charge at home. very few people will buy an ev without being able to charge at home, its quite inconvenient and hardly any cheaper to run than a modern hybrid

so, yea, we have a chicken and egg problem here, and those can really only be solved by external intervention. which in this case would have to be the government mandating the installation of power outlets in apartment building garages

and actually its a very annoying problem to have, because
a) EVs are obviously best suited to being city runabouts, where the range issues dont matter at all
and
b) EVs yield the greatest benefit if they are used in cities, where the local pollution from millions of ICEs is a health hazard for the millions of people who live there
and
c) the vast majority of city dwellers are in apartment buildings, which means they can't charge at home, which means they're way less likely to buy EVs

>>29022818
You got what you wanted. Get in your EV, shut up, and be happy that lots of people paid for you to have that.
Taxpayers paid to make EVs so cheap, it cost the auto industry a lot to deal with this stuff. But they did, just for you. And you’re asking for taxpayer to give you more? Buy a charger or get a parking location that can access one, don’t ask for daddy gubbament to put charging on every public and private parking spot.
At this point you’re either just trying to ban ICE out of malice, don’t BS me.

ICE failure:
>pull car over, get out. call AAA

EV faliure:
>immolated in an unstoppable battery fire

>>29022829
ICE failure:
>car won't start

EV faliure:
>catches fire for no reason and burns down your home with you family in it

>>29022823
>it cost the auto industry a lot to deal with this stuff
it was the auto industry's own incompetence that cost them, and is still costing them, a lot
nobody told mercedes to make their EVs fuck ugly
nobody told ford to make an electric CUV and call it a mustang
nobody told vw to make a vw bus with a 200 mile range
and certainly nobody told them to sit on their hands for all of the '00s and 3/4 of the '10s, until musk made the 3 and the y and forced them to scramble to make evs without having any of the prerequisite investments

>you’re asking for taxpayer to give you more?
actually no.
im asking for a law that mandates that apartment building garages must install a power outlet in every parking spot
nobody said anything about taxpayers paying for it
if it were up to me, there would be 0 subsidies attached. so, the renters of each apartment building would be paying for it out of their rents, as is fair and appropriate given that they are the ones that benefit

>trying to ban ICE out of malice
absolutely no
im a petrolhead and i love ICEs. in sports cars, where they actually have an advantage
and i fully recognize that there are other usecases too, eg towing
but for the vast majority of cars out there, which lets be honest, are basically just commute appliances, EV is the way to go
i want ICEs to remain viable so people can enjoy them in sports cars, but i also want all the boring ass 4pot econoboxes to become boring ass EV econoboxes.
not by force or mandate, just by making EVs viable and letting people make the obviously best choice.
but, as previously explained, the demographic that would most benefit from switching to EVs is basically locked out of them

if we wait 10+ years, maybe ev fast charging will become fast enough that the whole charging at home thing becomes a non-issue.
maybe. in 10+ years.
imo fuck that, just make renters eat the one time cost of installing a power outlet in their parking spot now, and the issue is resolved immediately

>>29022831
ICE failure:
>oh no, a few quarts of oil on the ground

EV failure:
>oh shit, toxic heavy metals aerosolized and spread all over the fucking place

>>29022829

ICE fender bender:
>a trip to the body shop later and you'd never know it even happened

EV fender bender:
>We'll have to total the vehicle, sir. We'll write you a check for 15% of its value. have a nice day

ICE winter:
>just like ICE summer

EV winter:
>sorry honey, the battery doesn't like the cold. We'll have to wait until spring to drive to the next town over.

ICE on the hwy
>cruising comfortably at 85mph with no concerns

EV on the hwy
>we have to do 65mph because going any faster will reduce our range. by the way, mind if I turn of the a/c - it's really killing the range.

>>29022165
The biggest reason I am against EVs is that they are heavier and that puts more stress on the brakes which causes a shit ton of pollution.

Tesla won

After 50 years of driving ICE
>no ill effects

After 5 years of driving EV
>ass cancer from putting your asshole on a giant EMF generator

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I don't necessarily mind EVs but I genuinely prefer ICE vehicles literally for engineering reasons because I find engines to be more interesting than motors.

>>29022840
>they are heavier
yes, but not by much
compare a model 3 to a bmw 3 series
they're within a couple hundred pounds, depending on version
and actually, pick the right versions and the model 3 comes up on top. is lighter, that is.

>that puts more stress on the brakes which causes a shit ton of pollution
yes, more weight = more brake dust, all else being equal
but all else is NOT equal
EVs use regenerative breaking. a lot of it.
to the point that they have problems with their rotors rusting, because they aren't being used.
tesla cars were famously failing TUV inspections in germany because of rusted rotors.
and, i might be wrong about this, but im pretty sure that due to those failures, teslas now have some software tweaks to ensure they use the actual brakes occasionally just to keep them rust free.

so, no, EVs are not that much heavier, and DEFINITELY do not produce more brake dust. they produce less.

>>29022832
Sorry, just took a 25 min joyride in the miata with the top down through the woods with the stars above me since my last post you responded to. Ahhh, sweet bliss. It felt SO nice.
Anyway
>im asking for a law that mandates that apartment building garages must install a power outlet in every parking spot
That would cause a housing crisis as it would make everyones' apartments more expensive, it would hurt the little guy. The landlords aren't going to just replace their electrical infrastructure without increasing rent... unless the gov't steps in with taxpayer money and incentive programs which is what would really happen.

>>29022865
>That would cause a housing crisis as it would make everyones' apartments more expensive, it would hurt the little guy
bullshit
its a one time cost
and while im not an electrician or anything, i'd expect it to be roughly equivalent to the cost of installing a single outlet in private garage, per renter. if anything, doing a bunch of them at the same time should create efficiencies, dropping the cost relative to the single outlet install in a private home.
so, yea, a couple hundred bucks per renter would be my guess. hardly the end of the world.
that's not going to cause a housing crisis nor is it going to cause rents to soar.
renters would probably see +100 bucks in their fees for a few months, and that's it.

>>29022869
I'd think that the draw of potentially a dozen or more EVs at a time would require more than just adding an outlet, but that's not my field either.

>>29022869
>i'd expect it to be roughly equivalent to the cost of installing a single outlet in private garage, per renter
its uh...its not that simple. this is sorta like asking "just install fiber optics lines for faster internet, what is it, like 50 bucks tops?"

>>29022882
>I'd think that the draw of potentially a dozen or more EVs at a time would require more than just adding an outlet, but that's not my field either.
im guessing that as apartment buildings grow larger, you'd probably need some fairly fancy bits of kit, yea.
buuuuuuut
you also get to divide the cost of said fancy bit of kit to more renters, so i'd expect things to even out, more or less

im sure if we had actual numbers and knowledge on the subject, we could find minima and maxima in this equation, numbers of renters that are especially favorable or unfavorable, because you get max renters for each tier of complexity/equipment needed or conversely you're just above the cutoff where you need to step up to even fancier stuff

but yea, zoom out, and the broad trend should be basically linear:
more renters needs more expensive stuff, but you divide the higher cost to more renters, so it all evens out

EVs are better npc cars. part of that is emissions restrictions making ice cars into even more complicated rube goldberg machines but thats been the case for decades now

>>29022887
>you also get to divide the cost of said fancy bit of kit to more renters, so i'd expect things to even out, more or less
So, you don't want to pay for your own solution, a paid parking spot, or to move somewhere that accommodates your car... And you want the gov't to mandate that the people who also rent but don't have EVs to pay so you can can charge your EV?
Do you see the "housing crisis" part?
Not viable. Taxpayers funded EVs, they exist, you find a living situation that allows for them - not difficult.

>>29022884
the thing is, all apartment buildings already have electric connections
and more than that, those electric systems are already specced so that all the renters can come home from work at roughly the same time, and turn on their TV and AC and then turn on their oven and microwave to cook dinner, again roughly at the same time.
so im assuming that the same system will also be able to handle mass EV slow charging overnight.
which is why i was talking about installing power outlets to all the garage spots, not some super fast DC fast charger with 250kw DC. i mean, aside from the insane cost, obviously that would totally overpower the buildings grid, and the neighborhood transformer, and everything.
but a 7kw outlet? that should be well within spec already.
add some lower nighttime charging electricity rates to incentivize people to schedule their evs to only charge 12pm-6am, and it should all work swimmingly

>>29022892
How about, if you buy an EV, you live somewhere that allows for you to charge it? Or, you pay for the apartment to upgrade it and the insurance liability of having an EV charging right where people live.

>>29022891
>you don't want to pay for your own solution
i am exactly advocating for people to pay for their own solutions

>a paid parking spot, or to move somewhere that accommodates your car
those are not viable solutions for all the hundreds of millions of people that live in cities
they can't all pay for special parking spots, nor would they be available for all of them
and certainly they can't all move away from cities. living in a city is not a choice, you do it because you work there.
or because you're young and stupid and think its cool, i guess. but mostly its for work

>And you want the gov't to mandate that the people who also rent but don't have EVs
i want the government to mandate the installation of outlets so EVs become an option for renters, because that would benefit them most of all.
its those same renters that would save lots of money on gas, as EVs are much cheaper to run, especially in cities, which are the optimal scenario for an EV and the worst one for an ICE
and its those same renters who would also benefit from much cleaner air where they live, because in cities, the main source of pollution is all the millions of ICEs driving around right outside your windows.
so, the people who pay are the ones who benefit
the unfair thing would be to ask rural/suburban people to pay for this through their taxes, despite not benefiting from it.

oh, and, as i explained in my first post, the chicken and egg nature of the problem necessitates external intervention, its sadly not something that will get solved by itself/market forces.
so yea, while i generally don't like it, this time, we unfortunately do need the government to mandate it.

>>29022895
>i am exactly advocating for people to pay for their own solutions
You are asking everyone to pay so you can live in an apartment while leasing an EV because you want [what you perceive as] fancy shit without having to pay for it yourself.
Move to China.

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>Everything around us causes pollution
>We got rid of leaded fuel and introduced catalytic converters and boomers have (rightfully) been proud that it eliminated smog in cities
>Every generation after wants to replicate this success, but instead of looking elsewhere, they only look at cars.
Why does a cruise ship burn 80,000 gallons of fuel a day without catalytic converters? "Uh... uhh.... cars are evil!"

>>29022894
>if you buy an EV, you live somewhere that allows for you to charge it?
its the other way around
people who live somewhere that allows EV charging (so, homeowners) have the option to buy an EV. and many of them do
people who live somewhere that doesn't allow EV charging stick to ICEs

which again, as previously explained, is a big problem, since the best place for EVs is in the cities, and in cities, most people live in apartments, where charging is not available

>Or, you pay for the apartment to upgrade it
that's exactly what im asking for, for the government to mandate it to happen
because i understand that the situation is such that market forces wont cause it happen organically

organically, what happens is that renters cant charge at home, therefore they dont buy EVs, and therefore charging isn't installed in apartment building garages, so renters keep not buying EVs, and apartment buildings keep not adding charging, etc etc
its a vicious cycle, thus the need for external intervention

>>29022897
why are you trying to make it about me?
is it perhaps because you have no real arguments except ragebaiting and FUD?

>>29022901
>people who live somewhere that allows EV charging (so, homeowners) have the option to buy an EV. and many of them do
>people who live somewhere that doesn't allow EV charging stick to ICEs
>which again, as previously explained, is a big problem, since the best place for EVs is in the cities, and in cities, most people live in apartments, where charging is not available
Shoulda thought of that yourself. Nobody has to pay for you to charge your vehicle. How about we mandate gasoline and diesel pumps at every apartment, paid for by all of the renters (even those without cars)?
Be glad we all paid for you to be able to afford an EV at all, faggot.

>>29022901
Hey, uh, how about we get equal healthcare?
It's only right that everyone pays so that people who get illnesses or injuries at no fault of their own don't have to pay every dime they make for their illnesses, right?
That makes a lot more sense than making everyone pay because you believe in EVs really, really hard.
I was born in the military, spent my childhood by the flightline, lived right by it. My uni was less than 5 miles from a coal plant. I have asthma, but I've had it since birth. Getting near a horse can give me an asthma attack, waking downtown NYC does not. Get over yourself.

>>29022842
>After 50 years of driving ICE
>>no ill effects
*dies in lung cancer*

>>29022905
>has asthma
>still defends pollution
What type of cuckoldry is this?

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>>29022905
>My uni was less than 5 miles from a coal plant.
>I have asthma

>>29022955
There's more to pollution than cars.
>>29022962
I had asthma as a kid from birth, haven't had any symptoms in 20 years unless I get too close to a horse or cat. I've got a nebulizer, haven't used it in years.
There is so much more to pollution. Why focus on cars and cars only despite catalytic converters? CO2 isn't even a strong greenhouse gas. It seems like you are being "environmentalists" as a performative act, because you only focus on cars over and over again.
If "environmentalists" cared, they'd also work hard against other stuff. Insustrial waste, airplanes, the military, overpopulation, air conditioning, cargo ships, excess plastic (plastic comes from crude).
Why only cars? They do it as a performative act because they think the hipster chick they like will sleep with them if they hate cars. Learn science and math? Fuck that, let's listen to Disney and TikTokers.

>>29022962
You know what that coal plant did? It made electricity.
Zoinks!

>>29022967
yeah we should move to nuclear and/or solar. but, uh, nice gotcha i guess

>>29022966
>only focus on cars
well i was gonna bring up how coal plants produce and eject more radiation into the atmosphere then any nuclear power plant, and we were LITERALLY talking about asthma here, but hey, whatever man

make sure if you got any kids you tell them theres no point in even trying, and move even closer to the next coal power plant.

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>>29022966
>If "environmentalists" cared, they'd also work hard against other stuff. Insustrial waste, airplanes, the military, overpopulation, air conditioning, cargo ships, excess plastic (plastic comes from crude)
They do. You just don't care about it. One of the main things they care about is replacing dirty electricity generation with renewables. But their work is prevented by an insane amount of FUD coming from oil-backed governments such as the US. The same powers that coincidentally also shill for petrol cars. And your car shits out more than just CO2. Exhausts are a kniwn trigger factor for exacerbations in asthma/COPD patients.

>>29022974
>how coal plants produce and eject more radiation into the atmosphere then any nuclear power plant, and we were LITERALLY talking about asthma here, but hey, whatever man
Hey, look, I'm all for getting energy in more efficient manners. I'm really interested in energy production. But, I don't think it's worth banning (or shadow-banning via economic "nudges") ICE cars.
As it is, someone can buy either one. As it is, 60% of US electricity is from burning fossil fuels. As it is, F=ma, EVs weigh significantly more (my car is under 2,300 lbs). Even the lightest tesla requires much more energy to accelerate than is reasonable. You can compare weights to a luxobarge SUVs which are also unreasonable, but your EV isn't going to get down to 2,300 lbs with double wishbones and the ability to split torque mechanically to the tires that need grip.

>>29022977
It takes less energy to move the Tesla forward. Electric drivelines have 90%+ efficiency. ICE drivelines only 30%. The rest is just heat.

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>>29022981
Why do I have to say this so many times?
The "90% efficiency" is only within the EV. EVs have batteries that store energy *made elsewhere.*
60% of US electricity is made from burning fossil fuels (coal or natural gas) to boil water to spin a turbine usually 25-55% efficiency. There are losses in there that are ignored.
After the electricity is made it has to be modulated for transmission. There are big losses in modulation at the plant or substations and minor losses at every pole along the way.
Saying it has "90%+ efficiency" ignores how the electricity was made. Biggest deception of our generation.

>>29022986
Funny how this exact mentality does NOT apply to all the fuel wasted in extracting, refining, shipping and transporting that crude oil into readily available petrol station so your car can waste an additional 70% of it as heat.

Also you keep talk about America's electricity generation as if your right-wing petrol corpo bought president isn't actively working to undermine renewables at every turn.

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>>29022829
You're far more likely to die in an ICE car than an EV.

>>29022831
ICE and hybrids catch more fire than pure EVs.

>>29022834
Modern cars cost more to repair no matter the driveline.

>>29022836
The only way to fix this is if EVs also wasted most of its energy as heat instead of actual kinetic energy.

>>29022838
How are you cruising comfortably when you have that engine constantly nagging in your ear that it's doing 4000 rpm?

>>29022842
Because we all know exhaust pollutions cause zer disease.

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>>29022989
There's a lot more to crude oil than gasoline.
We even make plastic out of crude oil. Yeah, your Greta Thunberg Funko Pop? Took oil to make, took burning oil to form, took oil to ship from china.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2024-03-21/evs-are-much-lower-emitting-than-combustion-cars

My BloombergNEF colleague Corey Cantor just published a detailed report on the lifecycle emissions of electric vehicles, looking at everything from average battery pack sizes by region, battery manufacturing emissions, current and projected electricity-generation emissions, day- and night-time charging trends, and more.

Corey comes to the same conclusion that virtually all other independent studies have: EVs have lower lifecycle emissions than their internal combustion counterparts.

Even in places like China, where coal still plays a large role in power generation, EVs have lower emissions overall. The reduction is around 27% there, compared to 71% lower in a market like the UK, where coal has been mostly pushed out of the generation mix. In a market like the US, an EV becomes a cleaner option after about 25,000 miles of driving, which is about 2.2 years for the average US vehicle.

The power sector is changing rapidly, with more clean generation capacity being added to the grid. This means that by 2030, the breakeven point will have moved up significantly in all regions. An EV made in the US in 2030 will be lower-emitting after a year of driving, while in China, it will be after just over four years, based on current trends. Battery recycling eventually will push EV emissions down even further, as will localizing battery production closer to demand centers.

One final caveat to all vehicle lifecycle emissions work is that most studies (including BNEF’s) don’t include emissions from refining and distributing gasoline and diesel.

These fuels don’t just appear at the pump, and anybody who has driven by an oil refinery can see the vast scale of our current energy infrastructure. This is a tricky area to pin down, but global refinery emissions are somewhere around 1.4 gigatons of CO2 annually. That’s a few percent of global CO2 emissions.

>>29022992
And guess what we do with electricity besides car fuel? Literally for everything.

I'm not saying oil has no use besides petrol. I'm saying that your argument was shit, selectively pointing out electricity generation without taking in consideration the huge waste of fuel before you even filled the car with petrol. By the way, that huge truck that delivers the petrol to gas stations, guess what it does with the roads?

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>>29022993
Let's ban airplanes. Let's ban cargo ships. Let's ban SSRI/SNRI drugs that have been demonstrably proven to not work but metabolites pissed into the water are killing fish. Let's ban fruit being made in south america, shipped to china to be packaged, and then shipped to be sold in the US?
Why only focus on cars? Can you explain that to me? Why does every environmentalist only care about cars? Huh? Do they know organic chemistry? No, they know tiktok and disney.
You know what *really* causes pollution? Overpopulation and food waste. Why not focus on all the industrial pollution, single-use plastic, PFAS (Trump just reversed rules on PFAS)? Why only cars? It's performative, you don't actually care but want to look like you do. If you did, you's see that cars aren't the big deal here and you could get greater returns elsewhere.

>>29023000
Have you ever talked to a single environmentalist in your life besides what /pol/ is telling you? Those people are absolutely telling you not to take the plane instead of train or car. They're telling you NOT to buy imported food instead of locally grown ones. They're telling you to regulate the chemical wastes resulting from big pharma creating happy pills.

All of the shit you've listed, I hear them nagging about them constantly. It's far from cars. In fact, most environmentalists I know don't even like EVs since they're often luxury symbols and often used by upper middle class people anyways. They will tell you to take the bike or the bus. I think you must be American because all those things you mentioned are highly talked about subjects daily around here.

>>29023003
>Have you ever talked to a single environmentalist in your life besides what /pol/ is telling you?
I'm an environmentalist. I have never once posted on /pol/.
I like cars. What I don't like is people telling me how I should live or what I should buy on a "scientific basis" when they aren't scientists and I am. You could do SO MUCH more elsewhere to protect the environment. Why cars? Again, 60% of US electricity is from burning fossil fuels, there are losses in modulation and transmission, and more losses in the EV, and the EV weighs more. A Model Y battery pack without coolant weighs HALF of what my car does, F=ma. Weight requires stickier tires which pollute more and need to be replaced 5-10x more often.
It just seems like bullshit. Everything humans do causes pollution. Everything.

>>29023007
And like I said, it's far from being just about cars. All those things you mention are highly talked about topics on the news here and even in political circles.

>Again, 60% of US electricity is from burning fossil fuels,
The environmental wing of US politics is a joke and constantly walked over by the dinosaurs who are owned by the petrol industry. You have so much land mass to build renewable energy sources on but choose not to since all that land is either "private" (see: owned by a former slave owner) or you're already doing some stupid shit on it to make money somehow.

> there are losses in modulation and transmission, and more losses in the EV,
There are less losses and I've already said why.

>Weight requires stickier tires which pollute more and need to be replaced 5-10x more often.
More bullshit statements. You know what else pollutes that isn't from the exhaust? Brake dust, which EVs have none of. It's true that tires wear out faster but replacing them 5-10 times faster than normal tires is a lie. Also most road wear comes from heavy trucks anyways. The heavy trucks that deliver the petrol to your petrol station.

https://blog.ucs.org/dave-cooke/trucks-cause-the-lions-share-of-road-damage-and-their-industry-wants-you-to-keep-paying-for-it/

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>>29023011
>And like I said, it's far from being just about cars. All those things you mention are highly talked about topics on the news here and even in political circles.
Yeah, they're talked about. But why is the focus always on cars? Why not all that plastic Temu garbage shipped from china made in factories without emissions regs? Why try to ban me driving a manual miata with a 1.8L when you're A-OK with women wearing clothes, handbags, and shoes made from crude oil and shipped on a cargo ship with no emissions controls? It seems malicious.
Picrel - the solution. It's either that or mass war,

>>29023020
>Why not all that plastic Temu garbage shipped from china made in factories without emissions regs?
They are fighting it, albeit slower than I wanted it.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/jun/29/eu-introduces-customs-charge-on-small-parcels-to-curb-cheap-chinese-imports

>Why try to ban me driving a manual miata with a 1.8L
Nobody wants this.

>A-OK with women wearing clothes, handbags, and shoes made from crude oil and shipped on a cargo ship with no emissions controls?
I'm not. Women are extreme consumers of products and the hypocrite whores will pay for their sins one day.

>>29023022
You're being reasonable, I appreciate that.
How do you feel about corn in the US? Gas is usually 10-15% corn ethanol. Whiskey and bourbon are legally required to be 50+% corn.
Corn depletes resources from the soil more than most crops. It requires a fertilizer industry, fertilizer production pollutes A LOT, and even then most fold sold in the US isn't even eaten.
There are so many avenues to focus on. There's got to be a balance in freedom - I don't want to be driving an automatic or EV in 20 years, I like what I like.

>>29022165
I'd buy one if I wasn't a renting serf forced to street park. If you have your own driveway an EV is the logical conclusion. On principal an EV doesn't have to suck, it can be as bare bones as my Tercel, but sadly they are all pozzed. They are all too technological and smartphone-esque. I don't want a screen, or any driving assistance. I want a car from the mid to late 90's with a battery, electrical motor, and VFD. That's it. But we all know that will NEVER happen.

>>29023026
I'm not invested enough in the crop subject to speak about it. But it does sound like America is blissfully ignorant in its over consumption of world's resources in more ways than one. Your own president keeps repeating conspiracy theories regarding enviromental work so the big corpos can preserve the status quo. Things are fucked regardless.

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>>29023029
>our own president keeps repeating conspiracy theories regarding enviromental work so the big corpos can
In the last week, he erased protections on the environments of endangered species. In the last week, he removed restrictions on using PFAS in pesticides.

>>29023032
But hey it was Hillary that was crooked right? Not this pedophile in chief just acting in the interest of his kike owners ;)

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>>29023033
Yeah, absolutely. She's the bad guy.
"Who's still talking about Jeffery Epstein, amirite?!"
;P

I think ICE are great for either those manual joy ride cabriolets or those awesome V8 monsters. But I see no reason why the average soccer mom or cab driver should be driving anything else but an EV. The majority of car exhaust pollutions are not from enthusiast cars but people doing their normal errands and commutes. All this should be electric and the ICE should be once again purified from the Ecoboost hybrid shenanigans and once again a thing of beauty. Really it's a win-win for everyone.

>>29022188
but nobody makes a sub 50k ice convertible except mx-5?

I fucking love my EX30 and I'm never going back to ICE cars.
Tho next EV I'm taking one with more physical buttons, and I hope less SUV-y

>>29023097
the mustang ecoboost convertible and mini cooper convertible are both under 50k.
but you’re right that there are few of them. it’s a symptom of the disease that manufacturers used to make fun cheap cars and now they don’t want to.

>>29022808
>they were government subsidized by taxpayers
The government creates money. It never needs to collect it from taxpayers before it can spend on something. Rather, it has to spend the money into existence first before anyone has anything on which to be taxed.

>>29022991
You're missing the point. ICE fires are basically non-events with no fatalities. They don't make the news because they are so mundane it's not even worth reporting on. EV fires are catastrophic bonfires that will cremate you in your car because the doors won't open.

>>29023208
>ICE fires are basically non-events with no fatalities.
You sure about that?

You SURE about that??

>>29023242
Yes, comparatively ICE fires are child’s play. Battery fires go from zero to burning your children alive in about 1.4 seconds and require something like 50x the water to put out. They’re less common but more dangerous and harder to extinguish.
You already know that and are trying mental gymnastics until you find the right combination of words to let you ignore this fact.

>>29023182
You Want to know what else is under 50k? A wheelbarrow.

>>29023261
ICE cars literally explode. In an accident, you're dead if the crash knocks you out. EV fires are harder to put out but there is no explosion. An EV is also less likely to catch fire, both talking spontaneously and in accident over hybrids. And don't drive cars with electric door handles. It's one rule to live by no matter the driveline.

>>29023268
lrn2chemistry

>>29023268
>Gasoline cars explode in accidents!
Come back when you’re old enough to post here.

>>29023268
>there is no explosion
Oh There are definitely explosions.
>t; hydrogen gas produced from thermal runaway is notably more explosive than gasoline vapors

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>>29023270
>>29023272
>>29023273
FUEL

NOTHING WRONG WITH ME

TWO

A SMALL SPARK MIGHT SEND YOUR ENTIRE BUTT TO KINGDOM COME

>>29023273
I've seen EVs catch fire but actually explode the way ICE cars do? Haven't seen it.

>>29023278
that doesn’t look like an ice car exploding, that looks like a fuel silo exploding, it just happens to be getting pulled around by an ice truck

>>29023279
Have you seen an ICE car explode in an accident (one that wasn’t coincidentally carrying propane or welding acetylene)?
No, because it doesn’t happen.
I’ve seen one where the fuel tank eventually got caught in the flame and put out a big poof, over ten minutes after the fire started, but no explosion.
You act like this is a movie or video game. Absolute “head-in-sand” behavior to deny that EV fires are much more dangerous.

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>>29023282
Imagine if there was highly flammable gas in the gas tank of every ICE car on the road...If EV charging stations blew up like this, you just know the FUD machine would never stop talking about it.

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>>29023283
How are EV fires more dangerous when fuel fires look like this?

>>29023284
>gas STATION explosion dot webm
do you have any evidence of ice CARS exploding whatsoever?

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>>29023284
3 weeks ago an EV caught fire in a BYD storage facility and it was huge.
You might notice no one has made a big stink about it.

Call me when driving an EV is as engaging as driving a manual 2.0L turbo shitbox

>>29022165
Facebook boomer retards + third worlders who can't into proper infrastructure. It's only a matter of time before EVs completely replace ICEs in developed nations, it's just a matter of how long the infrastructure transition takes

>>29023293
having to pull complex levers to make a machine work right isn't "engaging".

>>29023291
>BYD
Chinkslop. Can you show a real car brand now? Not this Temu shit

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>>29023609

>>29023616
>Tesla
I said no temu shit

Your mad Tesla won

>>29023616
>>29023621
Teslas are all built in China now, and BYD's cars are basically cloned Teslas with schematics acquired through industrial espionage.

>>29022900
because the average normie doesn't want to drive, it's just something they have to do to get to the things they actually want to do

>>29022165
The why is simple. Oil companies and government that are dependent upon them for revenue both have financial incentive to spread FUD around EVs so they can keep making money. Russia is the primary state actor driving it but literally everyone in the petroleum industry is on board with it.

>>29023291
Because mass casualty events are a biweekly occurrence in China

>>29023007
Stop lying. Anyone with a clue would know that car usage is literally the single biggest contributer to one's personal CO2 footprint. Even going vegan doesn't have as much of an impact as switching to an EV. It's literally the number one thing you can do to reduce your carbon footprint besides going car free altogether.

Every EV discussion I've ever seen includes søyboys autistically saying:
>you don't NEED to travel 300 miles every day, therefore you should buy a disposable go-kart that inconveniences you in half a dozen other ways.

>>29022165
>400 miles every day without break, EVs can't do that
I've been under the impression that even "every week/month/year" it's still a torture to do every time, so it doesn't work as the only car

>>29024661
A normal person will take a break after a few hours at the wheel. An EV that can drive for three hours, charge for 30 minutes and then drive for another 2 hours is enough for such trips.

>>29024671
>you have to conform to a certain restrictive stereotype and perform long rituals to own an EV
>why people piss on my face when I proselytize

>>29022177
Per kWh, maybe - but you can only use about a third of the energy stored in gas for propulsion and 95% of the charged electricity.

>>29022686
That's a bit absurd.
Because people are being faggots you can absolutely not abstain from being a faggot yourself?
Countering the "save the planet" attitude with fear helps no one.
Just ignore the faggots and their moralizing.

>>29024706
40% and 92%*

>>29022989
This.
I worked in a refinery for a while - these things use a shitton of electricity as well - the one I worked in had its own 2 full-scale thermal power plants plus a big-ass grid connection.
And it's probably better to do emissions control centrally at a power plant than in every single exhaust pipe of a car. Emissions standards introduced a ton of shitty technology in ICEs, my father's diesel van had a clogged EGR valve for the second time last month.

Because i want to enrich brown muslims through my car purchase!

>>29024741
42% is extremely optimistic. A diesel engine running at optimum conditions or a modern power plant.
Gasoline engines are consistently below 30% - especially when not run at full power (which is all the time in cars).

>>29024678
ESL

>>29025163
heavily optimized gasoline engines in hybrids are >40%
toyota hybrids are a smidge above, the current record holder is at 48% (its a chink engine, check driving4answers, he made a video on it)
but yea, a "normal" gasoline engine, not hybrid, not running miller/atkinson, and now slow af, would be well bellow 40%

>>29023286
They're more dangerous because this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLdjjDFCrCw

There's a lot of money and power ties to the hydrocarbon jew.

i would buy an i4 with 800v power train immediately but unfortunately bmw killed off one of the hand full good looking evs for the neue cancer i3
unfortunately BEVs where not good enough until all the nanny shit was forced starting in 2024

>>29023265
I laughed too hard at this, thank you anon

>>29024331
>Carbon footprint
See what I’m saying? You ignore all the other sources of pollution. Methane (natural gas) is over 80x worse as a greenhouse gas. You’re okay with all the single use plastics made from crude oil and industrial/ag waste but not gas engines with emissions controls?
It is not the single most environmentally friendly thing one can do. They can choose to have fewer children. You can choose to eat less, you can choose to buy less food, use less air conditioning, any number of things. EVs run off of a fossil fuel grid are not as “better” for the environment as you think.
But no, you buy a product and think you’re saving the world.

>>29024331
You can reduce your carbon footprint to zero by killing yourself. Or is gunfire going to expand your CO2 footprint, too?

>>29025961
Gunfire creates CO2 do that one is a no go unfortunately.

>>29025967
Throw yourself off a cliff.
Not joking, suicide is the de-facto most environmentally friendly thing you can do. Coal and natural gas were burned just so I could make this post.

>>29025951
the main benefit of EVs is not that they pollute *less*. which they do, even in the worst case (running off 100% coal power, comparing it to a hybrid or something, etc)

the main benefit is that they pollute *elsewhere*.
if you live in a city in the western world, basically all the pollution you experience is from ICE exhausts.
EVs not only lessen those emissions (or eliminate them entirely, if running on nuclear/solar/wind), but most critically, they move them away from you, to the nearest powerplant.
which will certainly be a few 10s of miles away.
which means you won't really be affected by any of its pollution.

there are ofc other advantages (instant power/torque and lots of it, quiet, less maintenance, etc etc)
but really the main thing is that EVs have the potential to greatly clean the air of all our cities.

>>29025972
I do not care. You could make a change with all sorts of stuff that pollutes everywhere but you’re hyper focused on cars. When we removed tetraethyl lead from gas and went with catalytic converters, cities went from smog to smog free. Everyone is trying to recreate that success, but they can’t see past cars.
When I was a kid you’d go into restaurants and you’d be met with a wall of smoke. I’m only 35. You keep acting like cars are choking you and all this shit because you live in a city, and I think you’re full of shit, it’s not killing you, you just have been told that engines are evil. I have a nebulizer within eyesight, haven’t used it in 20 years. Maybe move elsewhere.

>>29025976
>You could make a change with all sorts of stuff that pollutes everywhere
ok, first of all, its not up to me
if it were, we'd start by genociding everyone who isn't white and can't hide behind nukes, and then we'd start building nuclear powerplants and wouldn't stop until the last fossil fuel plant was shut down. also i'd ban all plastic in food and drink packaging.
also i'd execute all leftists.

>but you’re hyper focused on cars
its not a matter of hyper focus. its a matter of this being on the table right now
EVs are actively being fought against everywhere, this board included, with FUD and tariffs and unregulated charging station cartels and all that shit
dispelling FUD here is a small part of that battle, but it is helpful

>When we removed tetraethyl lead from gas and went with catalytic converters
yes, that was a HUGE victory
as was the switch from carb to efi
yes, a carb CAN be tuned very well, and if it is, its not that far from EFI in terms of economy. but most of them were not tuned properly.

>cities went from smog to smog free
no
there has been massive improvement, esp in the west, but its far from "smog free"
use any AQI website you want and compare city centers in rush hour to some rural area

>Everyone is trying to recreate that success
reducing pollution from ICEs, like most things in life, is subject to diminishing returns
nothing will make as big a difference as -lead + cats + efi

remember, during the covid lockdowns, all those memes about how clean the sky is and how u can see the underside of the universal logo in the sky?
a full switch to EV (full = all the commute appliances, im NOT in favor of banning them or anything) will make that permanent
i want that

and i also want to see sandniggers reduced to abject poverty again, forced to ride (and have sex with) donkeys, just like their grandparents.

>>29025486
Charging speeds is a meme. The i4 charges quickly enough. You will discover that most chargers don't reach 400kW anyways.

>>29025995
>and i also want to see sandniggers reduced to abject poverty again, forced to ride (and have sex with) donkeys, just like their grandparents.
Ah, a fellow moderate!

>>29026252
you simply do not buy a factory fresh car months before the entire platform gets canned.
the new i3 has a 25kwh larger battery at the same weight, over 250km longer range in wltp, the current i4 has a power train from 2021

>>29023538
it by definition is requiring you to engage your body to operate the machine. it's fun, you should try manual sometime.

>>29023921
>average normie doesn't want to drive
>>29025995
>full = all commuter appliances

idk why car enthusiasts can't get behind EVs for normalfags. it gets you more fun ICE cars that are actually designed for car enthusiasts instead of commuters, since all the commuters just buy EVs. it's like walkable cities. get the fucks who don't care about driving out of cars and into trains so people who care about driving can do it in peace and with cars that are more fun. btw walkable cities are a better solution than getting EV chargers in every apartment like >>29022901 said

>>29022165
>FUD
Quit making up buzzwords, I just don't want one. Simple as.

>>29026555
>it gets you more fun ICE cars that are actually designed for car enthusiasts
well, not quite
kit cars, replicas, and restomods are the future for ICE cars

>>29026563
companies like ferrari and porsche have existed for the majority of their history only selling sports cars. they will continue to sell ICE sports cars. an EU ICE ban won't pracrically happen, and something similar would never even make it on the floor of congress in america. fuck i mean porsche even started a synthetic gasoline research program

>>29026596
ferrari makes less than 20k cars a year
porsche makes ~300k
society transitioning away from ICE cars isn't going to boost those numbers

Went plug-in route for a second car that I do not fuck with. Best of both worlds.

>>29026596
>for the majority of their history only selling sports cars
and that is changing in a very compressed time period.
look, the only issue people have with electric cars is the very real, persistent threat that their existence will accelerate legislation banning non-evs that people enjoy driving. but legislators and bureaucrats are trying to ban internal combustion vehicles and to transfer tax dollars to EV sales specifically, directly contradicting current market forces. that's the problem, and it will be a red line, single issue vote problem forever.

>>29026596
>>29026600
Porsche is well established in the EV market. They have the highest BEV share of the German manufacturers.

>>29026462
The new i4 is like $10,000 more expensive with less additions. Also the i4 has that nice "sportback" trunk whereas the i3 has more limited practicality and is a smaller car. The i4 is better. After 600km WLTP range, further additions and charge speed increases seem less relevant than normal car attributes.

>>29026612
*the new i3

>>29026600
>society transitioning away from ICE cars isn't going to boost those numbers
it shouldn't. society should transition away from ICEVs. porsche should continue selling ~300k cars a year, some of them being sold to enthusiasts as ICEVs. they sold much less cars back in the 90s prior to releasing the cayenne, they'll be fine. when 99% of new cars are EVs regulators won't gaf about the remaining ICEVs, at least in america. idk about nanny state europe and i pray for you guys.

>>29025972
>if you live in a city in the western world, basically all the pollution you experience is from ICE exhausts.
In winter heating is another big source. Though heat pumps are going to drive that down as well.
It's also important to understand that car pollution also includes brake dust, which EV also cut down significantly due to regenerative braking.

>>29026616
All I'm saying is the mass adoption of EVs isn't going to result in more enthusiast oriented ICE cars. They're going to become even more niche than they already are. The focus needs to be on preserving and building aftermarkets for existing platforms.

>>29026621
>All I'm saying is the mass adoption of EVs isn't going to result in more enthusiast oriented ICE cars
i wouldn't be so sure

my prediction is that, when all issues preventing full ev adoption are solved, everyone who doesn't explicitly want a sports car, will be going after EVs. they're faster, quiter, more economical, etc etc.
assuming current impediments are all gone, the ONLY reason to prefer an ICE is because you want something that is fun and engaging. something manual, rwd, lightweight, that makes the right noises, etc. if you don't want that, an EV will do everything else better, so why bother

so, yea, i agree with the other guy. the transition to EVs will definitely reduce the overall numbers of ICE cars being sold
but the only ones that remain will be pure sports cars

>>29026612
>The new i3 is like $10,000 more expensive with less additions
that is so retardedly wrong. The i3 launches as 50 xDrive with 469hp at 66.500€
currently the i4 has a 401hp version for 64.800€ and the M60 with 601hp at 73.700€ which doesnt make sense to compare.
That is not 10k difference, it is hardly a 2k difference for 15% more power and guaranteed more shit in the base trim included. New generations (at least for the german automakers) always include some stuff for free that used to cost thousands in last gen, like rear cameras etc.
All that unfortunately doesnt save it from being fucking ugly thou

>>29026650
>when all issues preventing full ev adoption are solved
that's the most cop out circular argument possible, "yeah well when my team is all good and no bad then people will like it" ok fag

>>29026656
>The i3 launches as 50 xDrive with 469hp at 66.500€
>currently the i4 has a 401hp version for 64.800€ and the M60 with 601hp at 73.700€
meanwhile, in teslaland:
>model 3 lr awd, approx 440hp, is 51k
>model 3 perf, approx 510hp, is 59k
and while not the best looking car in the world, it damn sure looks better than modern bmws.
and it doesn't nickel and dime you with options and subs. the only sub available is for FSD, which is now starting to become a thing in europe, and imo is quite worth it.

>>29026667
>meanwhile, in teslaland:
it makes zero sense to compare msrp of different brands.
What is the current going discount rate of tesla? of bmw?
I know for audi it is currently at 20 to 25% for the average joe.
And Tesla made the same mistake as bmw, they killed off the model s and are now left with only uggos

>>29026650
>but the only ones that remain will be pure sports cars
sure, but there will not be more of them being made than there are now

>>29026671
>What is the current going discount rate of tesla?
if there were any, you'd see it on the website

>of bmw?
who knows?
you'd have to go to a dealer and haggle, presumably
and honestly, the tesla way is much better. if i wanted to haggle, i'd go to a bazaar in cairo

>tesla made the same mistake as bmw, they killed off the model s
wot?
bmw still sells the 7 series. well, nominally they do. considering how stupid the interior looks in the new one, i doubt there'll be many takers
as for tesla, i was quite sad to see the s and x die, but apparently they weren't selling enough of them to make it worth it
hopefully they come out with some new stuff after the whole cybercab thing is properly launched and sorted

>and are now left with only uggos
again, wot?
the model 3 is, as i said, not the best looking thing in the world, but its a far cry from ugly
and the y is about as good looking as a modern cuv bubblecar can be expected to be

>>29026677
>considering how stupid the interior looks in the new one
for me it looks like a tesla, dunno.
A buddy of mine worked on neue klasse cars for years now, it takes a while for the brain to adapt to changes, then it stops looking weird. the most offensive thing is the steering wheel, so everyone will propably go for the m wheel
>you'd have to go to a dealer and haggle, presumably
it is much simpler. can you imagine, people post their offers online and compare dealerships and rates to prevent getting ripped off

>>29026688
>for me it looks like a tesla, dunno.
not even close
tesla is pure minimalism, bmw overdesigns
compare the simple ass screen tesla gives you with the weird slanted thing bmw now has
or with the curved longboi in the previous versions (that always made u feel like u were sitting slightly off center, lol)

>the most offensive thing is the steering wheel, so everyone will propably go for the m wheel
the wheel is definitely the most egregious thing
but the new grills and headlights aren't that far behind

>can you imagine, people post their offers online and compare dealerships and rates to prevent getting ripped off
too much work. and then you have to go to the dealer and haggle anyway, or be told that the car you wanted is actually gone but they have this other one that's just like it except with a few more options and its only 4k more, but we'll take 1k off if you do our financing and we'll throw in a free set of floormats but you have to take it now because there's 23 indians coming tomorrow to see and their bound to take it off our hands for 2x msrp but we'll let you have it now goy, ahem, dear customer.

again, i much prefer the tesla way.
the price is the price, and its clearly stated on the website, front and center.
if there's any discounts right now, those are there too.
fuck dealers

>>29026708
>or be told that the car you wanted is actually gone
i am talking about new cars made to order

>>29022165
People like me are not spending more money for an inferior product. EVs are still an inferior product.
>Cost of battery is more and more of the car's total value as it ages
>Batteries degrade overtime regardless of use
Even if you disagree with me on the above statements, most people see it my way and will thus NEVER consider your EV on the used car market. That means you'll have fewer potential buyers. EVs have certainly gotten better over the past decade, but they need to figure out how to depreciate as slow as while simultaneously offering more than ICE cars for people to seriously consider them.

random thing but i would actually like to see a halon fire suppression system/extinguisher versus an electric car fire.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=NrP5-E9jmas
6:58 shows how quickly a fire gets put out. and while right after you see an electrical fire being put out it's not the same intensity as a full blown lithium battery fire.

>>29022165
If you still don’t understand the enthusiast (or even general consumer) opposition to EVs after they’ve been widely available for 15 years, you’re not going to get it. If the 75,000th EV thread on /o/ didn’t explain it to you, it’s not getting through ever.

>>29022165
>There is no brake wear since EVs use regenerative braking. You can use the same brake discs throughout an EV's life span.
Nice bait, OP. You almost had me there.