>go on facebook>retarded broke nigga #123412 who has some expensive car and is arguing or asking if he can't put the cheapest shittiest 87 octane in his carretarded shit, it's people with corvettes or m3s>THE ECU WILL ADJUST TO IT SARRR
>>29028149cant wait to dodis to bait boomerfags
If it says premium required, it's required.If it says premium recommended, it isn't required.
If your car is pre 2010 or makes more than 100hp/liter, use premium.
>>29028174No.You want the lowest octane that doesn't knock. Octane is resistance to combustion. All fuels are required to have detergents.A car being 15 years old doesn't mean it suddenly needs premium. Why would it? You have to advance timing to make use of 93 in an old car without variable timing.With variable timing (vtak, yo), most modern cars can advance or retard timing to deal with octane differences unless it's specifically tuned only for 93.
>>29028185By your logic you would buy a brand new ferrari and put 87 octane in it, bro le timing will be adjusted its fine!
>>29028186If the car is made to run with 87, what's the problem? Can you explain the problem?
>car has 10.5:1 compression>130hp/tonne>noo cheap gas>bike has 14:1 compression>500hp/tonne>runs cheap gas
>>29028149we have similar problem here in eastern euroland.some retard will buy an expensive thirsty car then will put fuckin LPG in it.hell my friends relative had a modified golf for rally and he still put fuckin LPG in it.
>>29028249is there some compression ratio to octane requirement formula or is it not that simple?
>>29028185>modern cars can advance or retard timingRetarding the timing to deal with low octane on a high compression engine reduces fuel economy.
Costco gas has too much ethanol and butane in it. It's the line flush and screwed up blends
>>29028344LPG is based. 110 AKI
>>29028378That wasn’t the argument, OP is implying that it will damage your engine.Supposedly it’ll reduce fuel economy, but I’ve only heard that said, never seen proof. It f the car was designed 87oct and “recommends” 91 I don’t see how it could lower fuel economy, they’re still designed to run 87 unless it says “premium fuel required”
>>29028389retarded timing is always bad because>less time for fuel to burn>peak cylinder pressure occurs too late on crank angle>fuel still combusting at end of power stroke/duri exhaust >excessive EGTretarded timing also comes with fuel enrichment to control CC temps, so EGTs go higher and engine becomes even less efficient
>>29028386not in a fuckin ferrarihttps://gtspirit.com/2013/04/28/column-lpg-conversion-kits-on-exotic-supercars/
>>29028398 #It’s not going to hurt the engine if it was designed to run with said retarded timing.It it says “required” it’s required. It it says recommended, that just means it advances the timing for higher octane.In a Miata, you can advance the timing from 10 to 14 for better power and efficiency, advance it enough and you’ll need higher octane to run it. That doesn’t mean that the stock tune is killing the engine.
It only retards timing when necessary (during high load) not across the board. Cruising around town is not high load, and highway driving is almost zero load. Nothingburger as usual.
>>29028389>OP is implying that it will damage your engine.Can we see it? For high compression engines, why not buy higher octane and get both better fuel economy and performacne?
even my pentastar loses fuel efficiency when i use lower than 89 octane. sure the gas burns fine but it uses more of it so in the end you don't get more miles per dollar even if you saved a few bucks on the tank initially
You would need an increase of like 8 mpg to offset the cost of 91.That said, if you're kvetching about $5 every full tank you're hurting very badly and should be asking about good bankruptcy specialists instead of fuel types.
>>29028444I agree, I always have. It’s just not going to kill the engine when it was designed to run on 87 in “premium recommended” cars. That’s all I’m saying. They’re literally designed to run on 87. Will it give you less power? Of course. Will it cause excessive wear on the engine? No, it was designed to run 87.
>>29028456Unless you're seeing a 15-20% drop in mpg, which is very unlikely for anything other than truggs and other heavy anemic shitboxes, then you're getting more miles per dollar. It's that shrimple.
>>29028185In my cuntry lower octane fuel is higher ethanol content too, so will rot your shit if it's not modern. Not to mention the octane boost of ethanol means they're using toilet water fuel in the first place.
>>29028476>a 15-20% drop in mpgBut premium is only 10% more than regular.
>>29028489The national average price difference is around 23%. In my state with cheap gas it's still 16%.
>>29028489>87 - 3.69>93 - 4.89I wouldn’t call that 10%
>>29028500>>29028502
>>29028531The prices I posted were from today. I haven’t seen such a close price split with octane as that since the ‘00s when it was always an 10-cent step up between fuel grades. Also, your regular is $1.50 more a gallon than here lol.
>>29028149>THE ECU WILL ADJUST TO IT SARRRMy beef with that is the system is reactive in that the engine needs to be knocking first and then the system starts pulling timing in increasing amounts until the knock has stopped. Some period of time after the knock has stopped the system starts adding timing back in incrementally until knock is again detected and the process starts over. If making power is important to you then that entire process should be anathema to you.
>>29028403No for a machine like that you would want LPI, liquid propane injection. Huge cooling effect on the intake charge
>>29028540It doesn’t wait until true knock (pre-detonation) happens, but it reacts to pinging, there are levels to it. That is how the system works, I’m glad you’re not an idiot. I think it’s idiotic and overly complex, but at the same time I don’t think anyone is hurting their engine by using 87 in such cars.
>>29028409No killing the engine wasn't the argument, it's operating less efficiently than it could or should, that's the big deal about retarded ign timing
>>29028346higher compression is more likely to experience knock. but ignition timing and temperature also play a role. and good knock sensors with a modern ecu can basically prevent it entirely.
counterpoint 87 might be healthier for your engine long term- normal commuting does not see load enough to detonate. - modern cars aren't so much 'advancing timing' for more power - but squirting out less fuel with normal timing. increasing exhaust gas temps to improve cat efficiency to score better on emission tests and squirting less gas to improve mpg- a fatter fuel table will make less power, but also a greater delta between normal combustion and blowing up. lower combustion/egt/oil temps aiding the life of valve seats, anti-friction coatings, etc.- in order to comply with euro7 emissions standards, new bosch ecus will lean out to the point of ping to get the optimal fuel map regardless of octane. see 992.2 911- modern ecus have thousands of fuel/igntion maps and adaptation usually only happens at lower rpm load cells. it's rarely retarding ignition over the whole rev/load range.- most cars are autos which will downshift away from danger in when heavy loaded - unlike a manual where you could taunt detonation by keeping it loaded in a high gear.I only put 93 in for track days, peak summer temps, or driving in the mountains.
>>29028186Anon was trying to not blogpost.Ive been in his shoes trying to explain octane for years so I know the struggle.If an engine is tuned for 87 then it will produce more power with 87 than 93.If its tuned for 93 them there may be issues with running 89 or 87.If the ECU can alter timing for 87 or 93 them running 87 will not damage anything but 93 will produce more power.Running 100 race gas at the track decreases power unless you have a build that can specifically take advantage of the higher octane (running more boost for example).If you notice, pumps say "minimum octane". That 87 might be 89. That 93 might be 96.Agitation lowers octane rating.The closer you are to a refinery, the higher the octane available. You can actually chart this on a map.That premium fuel might have left the refinery as 95 but by the time he gets to his first stop its 93. Now he has to go to some bumfuck hick town on the other side of the mountain and by the time he gets there the same fuel that left the refinery at 95 is now 91. Thats all due to that tanker bouncing down the highway and fuel sloshing around turns.(These are exaggerated numbers to make a point)."Pinging" and "knocking" are two terms that are used interchangeably to describe multiple conditions.Pre-ignition can be caused by fuel detonating from compression before the piston is at TDC.You can also get overlapping burn patterns that "collide" because of spark plug location. This has been minimized in modern engines since most combustion chambers are now hemispherical (hemi) or pent-roof. Both examples have the sparkplug centered in the chamber instead of on the side (like a typical SBC/SBF).
>>29029675>contPre-ignition can be caused by compression levels actually heating thw air/fuel mixture to ignition temperature in high comoression engines (generally higher than 11:1).Higher octane has higher ignition temperature so thats an easy fix."Hot spots" can also act as a glow plug ton ignite fuel too early. This is rarely due to engine design (but did happen) but is most common in high mileage wngines with carbon deposits.Overlapping burn patterns is trickier.These are caused by the burn rate, or speed at which the flame face moves outwards from the sparkplug. If the sparkplig is on tje side of thw combustion chamber, it will encounter the piston below the sparkplug first and as it spreads across the chamber to the far side of the cylinder and the piston is moving away it can develop 2 seperate "fronts" thay collide with eachother.The issue here is to find a burn rate that applies to that particular engine that may be slower or faster than the octane causing the ping. In fact, an engine could in theory ping on 89 but not 87 or 93.
just buy e0
Put what your car calls for, you don't know better than the people that engineered it
So, only go to shell or chevron?
>>29033274bp is pretty good too i think
