How do you deal with soldering wires when space is cramped as fuck? Is there any tool to hold two wires together and stick it somewhere in the engine bay, like magnet or some shitThose "thrid hand" aids are useless when I want to solder wires in tiny spaces, there is no way they will fit.
6" of solid copper like a #12, with alligator clips on the ends. I then put pvc tube or heat shrink over the jaws to prevent them from damaging the wire insulation. Might want to flatten the teeth with pliers, too.
Soldering is not ideal for automotive applications as vibrations and movement can break apart the solder.Anyway, before I knew that, I soldered. Once I soldered up in the dash above the pedals with my head against the brake pedal. I don't have many good tricks. You can wrap a wire around another to minimize the length that can move. You can "link them" by meshing the individual wires and twisting them before soldering. Sorta like picrel, but in opposing directions. (do this)
>>29037142Use a butt connector. There are heatshrink butt connectors that also have low temp solder in them. Just get a torch and some heat shield in there. No grandpa, not everything needs to be soldered for a good and lasting connection. Regular crimp style butt connectors are fine. As are Scotchlocks.
>>29037142Wet (presolder) the wires. It'll make it much easier to melt them together. Then twist them tightly together. Yeah it's a pain in the ass.
>>29037164...Picrel.
>>29037165>There are heatshrink butt connectorsThese are ideal for automotive use.
>>29037168If they're inside the cabin not fully necessary especially if its just not going to see off road use. Just get a good crimp on it and you're good to go. I've heard from a lot of boomers that using bullet connectors and scotchlocks are bad because vibration can make them come loose. Lo and behold OEMs were using bullet connectors from the late 70s to the early 90s without any adverse problems on motorcycles. The vibration machines left out in the elements themselves were using them just fine. Just use a quality connector, give the wire a good tug to double check its firm in there and it'll be fine. Heat shrink is just an insurance policy on top of it to keep it in place.
I mostly just use these things with a small click torch.
>>29037142
I’ve become a crimp guy. Buy a good tool and buy crimps from anywhere but Amazon. Even harbor freight is better. Preferably heat shrink. Fuck soldering.
Press botton
>>29037176scotchloks i can totally understand and anyone who uses them on stranded auto wiring should be shot, but bullet connectors is interesting. some of them are ridiculously tight that i don't think even crashing the car would cause them to come loose.
>>29037165I’ve had shitty luck with the ones with solder in it. The heat shrink melts before the solder actually wicks up.Heat shrink butt connectors without the solder ftw.
>>29037142Use a torch in a hurry. You can’t do a good job soldering in a shit environment.
>>29037432Funny you say that, I've had electricians and engineers swear up and down regular butt and bullet connectors WILL DEFINITELY FAIL before any solder joint. Its how I knew to ignore them: I'd rather take a boomer's advice because he's been using them for 50 years without fail, and an engineer only studies theory.
the government is looking for me on account of the sins I have commited.
>>29037863pic unrelated btw
>>29037164your technique requires improvementwestern union splice + solder + shrink tube is best join, accept no substitutes
>>29037869its 4eyelet ends in a 22 case anon its the dumbest shit ever.only positive is if i need to I can tack yet another wire onto one of those circuits I think one is straight 12v and the other is ignition.
>>29037874Why is it the dumbest shit ever? Seems like a convenient and safe terminal box.
>>29037818Regular butt connectors get the green death in them eventually, which is why the marine grade heat shrink ones are nice. Same with any spade or ring terminals you want to last for a long time.Solder + heat shink is ok too, but the heat shrink butts work well enough and a couple crimps from the wire stripper in my hand already is quicker and easier than soldering, whether or not the soldered joint will crack over time.>>29037863Polaris taps are the real big brain way to join a few wires under a car.
>>29037870Thanks, I appreciate the advice and will try that in the future. Looks less likely to break off wire filaments than my current method.
>>29037870The Westwrn Union splice was developed for telegraph lines that were non-insulated (they used ceramic mounts on the poles to insulate from ground).Its an excellent mechanical and electrical connection. Ive used them for 30 years with just electrical tape around them (this only works if you know how to properly wrap vinyl tape).
>>29037876i cant really explain it but the only thing this whole thing does is turn the stereo on and bulbs for two autometer guages, something seems wrong but my dementia is hiding the answer.
>>29037993Theres a cleaner, more secure, and probably more durable way of doing it. Possibly safer too. But if it works it works.
>>29037870NTA but as a DIY tech I've always done it like picrel and never once had an issue with solder connections in cars for 10+ years. Thanks for the photo/name of the technique. Never knew it was called that. >>29037164>>29037167Your best is not good enough. Why the fuck would you hook up the wires side by side instead of opposing ends. Wouldn't suprise me either if you don't make your iron hot enough either and all those shitty connections happened from that technique + cold solder
>>29038133>Why the fuck would you hook up the wires side by side instead of opposing ends.See >>29037164>Sorta like picrel, but in opposing directions.The pic was just from a quick google search. What shitty connections? I've never had wiring go bad.You're trying too hard to find things to poke fun of.
mechanics really are just a bunch of dirty illiterates huh?>hurr durr solder joints literally explode from vibration!yet we use them in airplanes, servers, and industrial controllers. curious!
>>29038169We also use crimp connectors in the same appliances.
>>29038146I do not need to "try hard" to call you a retard for thinking soldering isn't ment for cars.>>29038169Truke>>29038274Depends on application, soldering is always superior.
>>29038169Do you really think airplanes, servers, and industrial controllers use soldered and heat shrinked wires for connections?
>>29038277>I do not need to "try hard" to call you a retard for thinking soldering isn't ment for cars.Soldering is not ideal for cars. It's true.
>>29038274>>29038279yes it's almost like the determination for application goes beyond just "lol it's a car don't use solder it'll shake apart!" and extends to things like physical space requirements, materials, thermal load, and so on that I'm probably forgetting. if you got two wires that aren't hair thin and you use the right solder and the right flux and the right joint style and protect it with the right stuff they'll hold together until their tensile strength fails. or put more simply: a good solder joint will hold until you yank it apart or crack it with too many hot cold cycles. all of this is in many many books with big ol long data sheets. dumb fucking thread. REEEEEE.
>>29038308What OEM sells cars with soldered wires?
>>29037142butt splice but better. I use a lighter to shrink.
>>29038308A 1/2" socket will work on a 12mm bolt. Doesn't make it ideal.>a good solder joint will hold until you yank it apart or crack it with too many hot cold cycles.>hot cold cycles.It's a car, there will be heat cycles and vibrations. Even the ideal solder for an application won't be as durable as a heatshrunk butt connector. Eventually it will get brittle and could crack.It's probably fine, but why not use the better option that everyone in the industry recommends?
>>29038295Then why is every single connection on the back of instrument clusters soldered?
>>29038474How else are they going to do it? It's funny how instrument clusters are known failure points because of their solder. That's why you don't solder shit that doesn't need to be soldered. There's literally an industry that repairs GMT800 clusters.
>>29038491Something something self fulfilling prophecy I've yet to have a single failure or irregular issue with any soldering connection. I'll stick to what works, you enjoy the fuddlore
>>29038474Soldering two loose wires is less durable than soldering to a board bolted in place.
>>29038493You better go tell the aerospace, industrial and professional motorsport world that they're doing shit wrong and they should be soldering shit.
>>29037142Ideally you should be crimping your engine bay wiring, as people have already said.If you just want little magnetic soldering clamps they do exist, I got picrel from a friend but there's probably clones all over Aliexpress.
>>29038498>Inb4 you rely on "strict guidelines" (its just ensuring a quality solder)>>29038497See >>29037870
>>29038500Forgor Picrel, woops. Again, all for crimping. However soldering is fuckin great.
>>29038498Some people refuse to learn and are immune to good advice. It's an ego thing.I soldered for over a decade and it was just fine. But when someone (here on /o/) told me there was a better solution and why, I switched to the better method. That's how learning works in a society.
>>29037870these are great but man, for stranded wiring i find that i need quite a bit of wire on either side to do it properly. Whereas a butt splice i can just use a wire stripper to take off roughly 1/4 inch of insulation and then crimp.
>>29038308>>29038169>yet we use them in airplanesLOL
>>29038504Oh so you believe everyone on the internet with 0 critical thought? You should use wire nuts. They're so good they even use them on houses!>Sticking to what works isn't egotistical, it's common sense
>>29038508They do. It's literally just a skill issue. The reason crimping is more commonplace is because it's far more idiot proof. That is it.
>>29038515solder is discouraged in aviation unless there's absolutely no other alternative though because of vibration and strain. crimps are a lot more durable, especially the ones that have the second crimp into the sheath for strain relief>>29038500 mentions a western union splice which provides the bulk of mechanical toughness/durability, the solder just improves conductivity but not necessarily the strength of the connection.soldering in any high vibration environment is almost always done only when the connection being soldered is already secured to another part that allows the connection to be dampened from vibration
A proper automotive electrical connection is crimped, never soldered. Pic related is the best way, a non-insulated butt connector or ring terminal covered with heat shrink tubing.If you're soldering electrical connections in the big 26 you need to grow up and learn how to do things properly.>but m-muh sold-Grow up.
>>29038511>with 0 critical thought?not him but he literally said he listened to the explanation of WHY crimping is better. And it is, in every way. Anyone who thinks otherwise is just too retarded to use a crimper, which is really saying something given how idiot-proof it is.
>>29038515The reason crimping is mandated by a bunch of industrial standards is because it's superior in every way to soldering, full stop. There is no universe where soldering is better, and that's the end of it.
>>29038515also, this one is mainly for people that solder on top of crimping - a proper crimp makes soldering redundant. the worst thing that can happen is if it wicks up the wire - it creates a stress riser at the point where the solder ends since the soldered part is much stiffer than the rest of the wire.a good crimp literally cold welds the conductor into one lump forming a gas-tight, zero resistance-connection, if you solder connections to decrease resistance or improve conductivity, it's not needed.
>>29038530You're a fag, and also not a person.
>>29038530for large lugs I use both. crimp with a proper tool (a vise is not one) then add solder to prevent oxidation of copper. the lugs I use have a hole in them for adding solder after crimping.
crimping is more reliable in high vibration environments but realistically it probably doesn't matter. it's a passenger vehicle shitbox, not an FAA certified aircraft. if you're this obsessed with reliability, you might as well start replacing all of the fasteners in your niggermobile with safety wire while you're at it.
>>29038848Crimping isn't anywhere near the same level of work as tie-wiring. Crimping is also a baseline level of doing things right whereas tie wiring is only for particularly demanding environments. It doesn't take being "obsessed with reliability" to do things properly.
>>29037142i just twist them together and wrap the tape really tight
>>29039584
>>29039555>Crimping isn't anywhere near the same level of work as tie-wiring.crimp vs solder studies typically compare die-form crimp to soldering, not nigger rigged generalist crimps like a hobbyist would perform. ever look at the price on an OEM crimp tool?
