Why are car companies willing to alienate their customers just to save money on button-costs?Literally we are just asking you to keep 10~ real physical buttons for commonly used items.
they are trying too hard, I hope the rear glass is less sloped and easier to clean (and see out of) on the new one
>>29059880the market research says npcs want the screens and they probably do.new car and used car buyer demo are not the same
>>29059880People want consistent feel across devices - the same feel as on phones. Only time you use physical button on phone is when there's something wrong and you need to reboot it. So people are starting to associate physical buttons with something being wrong and car manufacturers don't want that.That's also the reason why top of the line laptops now use touch keyboards, newer generations are just more comfortable with it.
>>29059906>That's also the reason why top of the line laptops now use touch keyboards, newer generations are just more comfortable with it.Yet desktops still have mechanical keyboards and there is a booming market over the fucking switches alone
>>29059917>booming marketMaybe 10 years ago, no one cares about that overpriced garbage anymore.
>>29059923>Maybe 10 years agoIt still is. The amount of gen xers these days who have asked me about keyboards because they want the "clicky" ones is surreal
>>29059906i have never met anyone who says they like big screens in cars. i doubt there is any publicly accessible "market research" on this because it either doesnt exist or was made the fuck up (or draws that conclusion based on the same sort of shyster logic that lets google say that gemini is "the most used AI platform" because they count every hit on a google page as "engagement" with gemeni)
>>29059881not really a fan of square asses, but it's got good angles
What customers? None of you fags could afford to buy even the door handle of a new car even if it was perfect. The people with money want screens and tech gizmos, so that's what they get.
>>29059933And yet everyone I knew retrofitted big screen into their older car.I'm the only one that still has oem non-touch head unit in both daily car and 4x4. Bluetooth and good phone mount is good enough for me but giga big screens are also ok, even the on screen shifter on tesla is ok with me and have no issues using it.
>>29059948name each and every one of them so i can flay them alive
>>29059880that's what customers want, or to be more specific, it's what kids want. And yes, kids are actually important decision makers in car purchase as it extends to not just making family happy but the car affects perception among your kid's peers, their parents opinion, and so forth.>what about singleswho cares, they'll buy whatever slop they can afford, big money is still in soccer moms and grocery dads keeping up with the jones
>>29059975>perception among your kid's peersI'm not trusting the opinions of a bunch of braindead tiktok goblins who think saying "folk valley" and the number 67 are funny.
>>29059880Normies still believe that the beautiful screen is more expensive and generally better than stupid buttons - at least until they miss a certain function.>How would you feel if you had no AC button in your car?They literally cannot answer this.
>>29060003>the beautiful screenThis is them looking at their beautiful screen by the way
>>29060003as much as I don't like screens... What the fuck is an AC button? Does your car have a dedicated button to turn the AC on/off and no way for it to just manage it by setting a temperature like home thermostats?
>>29060009My current car hasn't and I miss it.I can turn it off via on-screen menu, but there is a forced start function if the humidity gets above a certain level.I'd really like to be able to to turn it off once in a while. If the outside temperature is in a nice range, it's more comfortable without.
>>29060009How do you turn the AC off if there's no off button?
The Chinese government is already mandating 19 buttons in new cars.
>>29059927I still use a mechanical keyboard, its tactile for touch typing and better for strain over a long timePlus they just last fucking years and the last thing I want to spend my time doing is buying more peripherals
>>2905988010 buttons means they need to keep engineers and designers on the payroll and build injection molding lines to make the parts.Much cheaper to hire some retard to vibe code a touchscreen slider for the climate controls
>>29059948Did they also rip out their physical climate controls and replace them with capacitive buttons?
>>29060009Even cars with auto climate control have themIt's nice to be able to control the ac compressor separately
>>29059880Most people don't care. People online all the time like you get this warped perspective that everyone thinks like them because every post they see online agrees with them. But you live in an echo chamber. The narrative gets established by a few key people, and content creators latch on to it. "This type of post is popular so I'll make the same post". The algorithm sees these posts doing well so it promotes them. Now you see all your favorite creators expressing the same thought so that thought becomes your thought. Anyone who speaks out about it gets squashed by the algorithm and flamed in the comments so they say "okay well i just won't talk about it". There's going to be at least one person who started reading this post but gave up before they got this far in and will call me a goy cuck unknowing that they just proved my point. The same thing is happening right now with video games. If you look online you'd think gamers are really passionate about physical media and going digital only is a huge mistake. An anti consumerist way to save money that alienates customers. Meanwhile GTA6 is on a fast track to clear 5 million preorders alone and will clear 10 million sales between now and the end of rebate season next year.
>>29060122I see you never attempted to sell an elderly person a Lexus when they had the trackpad radio control
>>29060133That wasn't a touch screen either so it's irrelevant. Lexus did away with that system because it didn't work. And you know what they replaced it with?
The real problem is lack of DIALs not buttons My maverick I have to use the screen to adjust climate control, my ranger has buttons but the buttons are USELESS while driving because they're completely vertical and at the bottom. I reach to turn the fan up and end up turning max defrost or some bullshit where I need to stop and look at what the fuck I did. I end up adjusting everything at the screen anyway.
>>29060160Be glad you can still adjust the vents without a touch screen.
>>29060170I mean, I don't do it that often, but that would be annoying
I'm convinced its not a "saving on button costs". Seems like thats a speculation that simply doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Plastic buttons that have been made for decades being more expensive than a premium glass screen? No possible chance. Did this come from some level of boomer speculation similar to auto stop/start causing increased wear on starters and the engine overall only to be proven untrue rather quickly but the meme continues?
>>29060185screens are bought in bulkand require no additional wiring except power and to connect it to the canbus or whateverbuttons require cutouts in the frame and engineering them individually for size and labelingscreens are just generic, not custom, and all you have to do is adjust the softwareAre you saying starters don't wear out if you use them more?
>>29060185It probably has less to do with the cost of actual parts and more to do with streamlining assembly. A dozen plastic buttons surely cost less than a screen no matter how you slice it. But you need a button for every single function on every single trim. Base model doesn't have heated seats so you don't need a button. Upper level has heated seats so that needs a button. Top trim has heated steering wheel and ventilated seats so those need buttons. The hybrid version needs a button to control regen braking strength, the gas version needs a button for auto start stop, the EV version doesn't need a parking brake, the sporty version needs drive mode selectors, eventually you've got hundreds of combinations of buttons and you're building dozens of combinations of blank switches and entirely different face plates and then you have to produce replacement parts for each one and it store them and ship them and it all adds up. Or you just build every car exactly the same and control everything with a screen and make all the changes on a software level.
>>29060198I feel like there's a lot of room on the steering wheel for more buttons and your hands are there anyways, I should be able to control the temp from my steering wheel. There's this huge disconnect between what manufacturers do and what's useful and functional for consumers. If you wanna have an uncluttered center console, w/e, but gimme like 20 buttons on the steering wheel
>>29059880Theyre running the long con.20 years from now it wont matter and they know it. I guarantee there were people who didnt want a starter motor and complained the dealer didnt have any new cars with a hand crank.You grandchildren wont even drive.It will all be subscription based waymo transport pods.
>>29060191>screens are bought in bulkAs opposed to buttons bought 1 at a time?>and require no additional wiring except power and to connect it to the canbusSame with the PCB for the array of buttons. They're not individual buttons on a dashboard>buttons require cutouts in the frame and engineering them individually for size and labelingIts molded plastic, not complex bridge building>Are you saying starters don't wear out if you use them more?Context you buffoon. black pillers have long cried auto stop/start produces significantly more wear on engine starters and the engine internals only to be BTFO by everyone including mechanics and engineers.
>>29060320>As opposed to buttons bought 1 at a time?If the buttons are a custom shape than you are not buying them as cheaply as a screen that's a premade product already made in China in huge numbers. Um I guess molded plastic costs more than we think cuz buttons all died in every single actually new new car without exception. >Context you buffoon. black pillers have long cried auto stop/start produces significantly more wear on engine starters and the engine internals only to be BTFO by everyone including mechanics and engineers.dodge
>>29060185A button cluster has a much larger BoM than you think because it has so many moving parts and so many different custom injection molds and its own little control PCB, and that's even without going into how expensive the R&D and prototyping for it is. Meanwhile touchshit is just a couple dozen dollars more for a bigger screen on the infotainment system you were already installing, but on the other hand you save shitzillions by instantly eliminating like 20 different parts assemblies and making the rest of the dash much much much simpler to manufacture and holy shit is it FAST and CHEAP to iterate the UX on those.It's not 2000 any more.
>>29059880the forward thinkers of the corporate executive suite have determined that your life is better without buttons
>>29060386>A button cluster has a much larger BoM than you thinkOnly to the supplier. Chevrolet isn't making a BoM sheet for a 37 button dash cluster, they order that as a single unit from a supplier. Chevrolet doesn't care if it has 60 different components, they treat it as 1 "button cluster" component. Its just like wiring harnesses; OEMs very rarely make their own. They typically just get it from a supplier. >and that's even without going into how expensive the R&D and prototyping for it is.Why would they R&D or prototype a standard button setup they've had for decades?You guys are arguing points that are completely irrelevant like total number of components, and blank button face plates that are in place of buttons on larger subassemblies. Makes me think you guys have never taken apart your own buttoned vehicle and think software and computer modules are somehow cheaper when they too have different sub assemblies too. And lets not pretend "just install the heated seat module in the computer bro" is some nerd checking a box on the computer upload. Streamlining the assembly line doesn't check out either, not every OEM is installing heated seats only to charge you more to "unlock" it in the computer screen. There are still half a dozen trim levels for every vehicle anyway and the computer orders the parts on the assembly line for the worker to simply install whatever is in front of them. Hell, even Hyundai figured out robotic assembly lines without humans doing installations anyway. Besides, when did the price of cars decrease due to the switch to a touch screen?
It's simple logic, they can charge you $1200 for a screen repair after 3 years, unless you break it yourself then it's sooner. Same goes for the digital "gauge cluster" and God forbid they put the A/C controls on the touchscreen.
>>29059952greased geese!
>>29060006need the longer version where he slams his fist oin the table
>>29060122your a goy cuck unknowing.
>>29060413the screens in my 10 year old car work finewhat is with boomers and thinking solid state electronics just wear out? there's no moving parts dumbass, a screen lasts for centuries.
>>29060450>the screens in my 10 year old car work fineVery low-IQ response. Your personal experience doesn't matter in this context.
>>29060450To be fair, a lot of early flat panel LCDs simply stopped working. Not the ones in cars mind you, but there was an era in the 90s to early 00's of very expensive "tech" that would just suddenly fail after a few years (outside of warranty) and nobody would even attempt to fix it. However, boomers being boomers they think the old thing is better because thats what they remember and not the old thing still crapping out. Nevermind an entire (old) vehicle essentially being scrap value once it hits 100k miles, because the screen could go out at 150k miles then how are you gonna use that one function you never knew existed?>inb4 yeah but a switch for my heated seat can be replaced which I won't because the mechanic wants $700 to do it!
>>29060402>Only to the supplier. Chevrolet isn't making a BoM sheet for a 37 button dash cluster, they order that as a single unit from a supplier. Chevrolet doesn't care if it has 60 different components, they treat it as 1 "button cluster" component. Its just like wiring harnesses; OEMs very rarely make their own. They typically just get it from a supplier.The supplier typically doesn't operate a charity and has to pass on the cost to Chevrolet directly.>Why would they R&D or prototype a standard button setup they've had for decades?Because not everything is the Express that has had the same interior for decades? Designs tend to change over time.>You guys are arguing points that are completely irrelevant like total number of components, and blank button face plates that are in place of buttons on larger subassemblies. Makes me think you guys have never taken apart your own buttoned vehicle and think software and computer modules are somehow cheaper when they too have different sub assemblies too. Again, what do you think is cheaper: computer + touch screen or computer + touch screen + button assy? Having buttons is objectively more shit to install on the dash and thus an objectively larger bill of materials.>Besides, when did the price of cars decrease due to the switch to a touch screen?You really think you're getting to see a single cent of those savings?
>>29060480>The supplier typically doesn't operate a charity and has to pass on the cost to Chevrolet directly.Correct. A glass screen has many parts to it as well. Frame, bezel, screen, LED, power, logic, touch capacitors, then a computer. Thats before you get into the retarded software and UX designer fees. >Because not everything is the Express that has had the same interior for decades?Its not exactly time consuming or challenging to make a new shape of button.>Having buttons is objectively more shit to install on the dash and thus an objectively larger bill of materials.The plastic panels have to be there anyway. Giving customers what they want to sell more vehicles is objectively better than making an extra $12 in profit by omitting a negligible hardware component.
>>29059995I'm just saying that it's a cycle as old as time. When a child in class shows off how they got a new Tesla with gigantic screen and can watch twitch and youtube on it, your kid will come home running to ask for a car with bigass screen too because they'll be embarrassed for being picked up in a screenlet car. Many affluent parents will cave to this and companies know this. It is what it is
>>29060544I genuinely just think screens are cheaper to order in bulk than button design/manufacture. It was never about showing off, it was always about saving money. Tesla pays Indians pennies to code its software. Chinese pre-make its screens. Teslas are the cheapest, worst car interior I have ever sat in.
>>29060466you all miss some perspective. these boomer tvs ran like 8 hours a day, 2500 hours a year. that tv sees more operating hours in two years than a car with 200k miles
>>29060042Voice activated.>"Your Excellency, Dear Leader, Klaus Schwab may I your humble servant, be allowed by thy grace to turn off the superfluous, Earth destroying air conditioning, I once again, humbly ask for your permission Sir?"
>>29060122>GTA6What a terrible choice>Everyone! Look what the niggers mexicans and indians are doing! We should do that too!
>>29060549do you think blackberries are cooler than iphones too? if yes, that's fine, you're just out of touch with normalfag sensibilities that's all
>>29060621It's just an example. I don't care if you like the example or not, it doesn't make it not true. I can give you more examples. People cried about Netflix cancelling password sharing and Netflix gained almost 10 million new subscribers the next year. People cried about Apple removing the headphone jack and now no new phones have headphone jacks.People cry about battle passes and micro transactions but they generate billions in revenue annually.People cried about the 911 going water cooled and the 996 was the best selling 911 ever. People cried about the Urus not being a real Lamborghini and it sullying the brand and Lamborghini went on to sell more Uruses than every other Lamborghini model ever sold combined The point isn't that you have to like the trends, but you have to accept them as being the trend.
>>29059880>willing to alienate their customersI believe that the issue begins with their Survey department.They are skewing the sampling results toward the iPad user crowd, and muffling the rational voices who desire a Balance.You're right, it does not cost much per Unit but the Accounting department then Vetoes the Balanced approach, by virtue of saving tens of Millions over the product lifecycle.It's short-sighted, to be sure.
its the minority complaining loudly. 98% of drivers are not driving fans, they dont care about cars. to them, a super simplistic, works like their iphone dash is appealing. doesnt matter how much "better/cooler/nicer" having actual dash buttons or switches or dials are, you are the 2%, and 90% of that "2%" buys used older cars or cant afford a new 80 grand car anyways, your not the target market.a modern person who uses the car as just a means to get from A to B just bluetooths their phone to the car for music or gps and figures out the air con and thats the extent of their interest in the dash over the entire life time of the car. anyone who goes any further figures out they dont even need to look at the dash to change the volume or change the music, they just yell out "siri/bixby/cortana, put on joe rogan and order me some door dash, set my gps to go to the nearest hipster brewery".feel free to do a start up and lose a few billy thinking otherwise.
Because they want you to be distracted and press the wrong part of the screen when you go over a bump so now you have to press more screen to get back to what you wanted to do and they hope you crash so you have to buy another car.
>>29060701Focus groups aren't skewing their results towards anything and no one is being muffled, they take a random sampling of people of all demographic segments that's as representative as possible of the average person and ask them questions. The problem is that the vast majority of people, like at least 95%, are not observant or introspective enough to have a strongly formulated opinion on car interior design. They will say blatantly contradictory statements within a single focus group session sometimes, evidencing their lack of conviction on the topic. Whether a bigger screen is better, or which functions should be reserved for physical buttons, is something they may not know until after they've been forced to drive a vehicle daily for several months that does it wrong. So a focus group often states that "they like bigger screens" while the customer complaints about lack of physical buttons only become available years after the car is on the market and development is finished.
these are the only buttons on the dash that are neededvolume knob with start/pause, defrosters and that's it. fwd/next are for the passenger really, those are on the wheelfucking with climate control, especially during driving, is pure autism
>>29063242>"driving fans" love cars because of all the buttons they can push on the dash
>>29063836bmw has such obnoxiously tiny dials fuck themthere should be at least 4 if not 6 chunky 2 inch diameter minimum dials on every car in the center console
>>29059923FPS games still require good keys.
