>Car sales dropping across the boardGood, let the dealerships rot
Let's buy a new miata in Norway!USD $120,000 to purchase and register day one. Gas is $9/gal. And there are further road taxes and yearly registrations.>For many years, EVs have been exempt from both VAT and Norway’s purchase tax on new cars. Since 2023, the 25% VAT exemption for new electric vehicles has applied only to the first NOK 500,000 of the vehicle’s purchase price. From 2025, the VAT exemption applies only to the first NOK 300,000.They literally didn't tax EVs for years, that's how they got that adoption rate. Look at picrel, a miata is taxed at 100% the value of the car.All for a 1.5L (they only get a 1.5L) miata.https://elbil.no/english/norwegian-ev-policy/https://www.skatteetaten.no/en/person/duties/cars-and-other-vehicles/importing/one-off-registration-tax/what-is-the-one-off-registration-tax/It's called government intervention.
>electroniggers haven't found the struggling power grid from the 500,000,000,000,000 data centers currently WIP
>>29060495I put in lbs instead of kg like the silly american I am. It's $84k total, not 120. Still pretty fucking bad.Let me check Denmark...
>>29060495Only Norway does that, OP chart is global in which Norway makes up a diminishing numbers of sales.
>>29060495best option is to hold out for 10 years and see if they make an NE Miata using lightweight solid state batteries
>>29060504Every country has incentives for EVs, Trump is the only one dumb enough to repeal them
>>29060499Let's buy a new miata in Denmark!325k dkk starting price.>150% vehicle registration tax812k dkk now>Emissions tax (DKK 1,115 per gramme of CO2) at 150 g/km adds 167k dkk978,750 dkk now---That is USD $153,000 day one to buy and register a 1.5L miata in Demnark.---EVs pay 40% of registration, with a further USD $25,000 in discounts on top of that and pay no emissions tax. The emissions tax alone for this example was $26k - almost the price of buying a miata in the US, just for the emissions tax. A comparable EV would already have USD $50k less to pay in day-one taxes, that's a big chunk of change. So everyone buys EVs. https://motorst.dk/en-us/individuals/vehicle-taxes/registration-tax/registration-tax-and-ratesIt's government regulations.
>>29060452>china
>>29060520Oh definitely.In 2010, only 3% of Chinese households owned a car. They are 18% of the global population. Now they're all getting cars, and what they have is EVs.That's definitely a factor here.
>>29060457Where do you see that
>>29060495krønër
>>29060511DENMARKYES
>>29060495>>29060511Why havent you eurofags shot your leaders yet?
>>29060524>source: TikTok, a completely Chinese owned and CCP operated social media known for showing curated and fake views of China to rival countriesYep, everyone over there has a state of the art Nicola, I'm sure...
>>29060633They have shitty XiaoDongZhengs or whatever. I never said they were good, nor would I ever imply that. Also, I've never even seen tiktok.
>>29060495The mosques aren't going to build themselves.
>>29060642
>>29060628fluoridated water
>>29060495Holy fuuuuck what the hell is Norway oh my god? Is this the zero nigger utopia I've heard about? How's a Miata 120k?
>>29060695Yeah, and USD $153,000 in Denmark; >>29060511 for the base price 1.5L miata. USD $26k just in emissions fees, for a tiny 1.5L car.
>>29060495>>29060511>gas cars are dying because of societyok so what? They're still dying. Like complaining that someone killed you in a fps because they had better aim.
>>29060718You're not American.Here, the government are public servants. You stand there and take it in the ass - "it's just the way it is." We don't do that.
>>29060726Not only am I American, but I drive the most American made car avaliable right now.
>>29060842A diesel F-250 Platinum?
>>29060845https://www.cars.com/american-made-index/
>>29060848You could have just said you were a cuck, anon.
>>29060850ok commie
>>29060851Ok leftist.
The 3,000-7000 cells in this thing's battery were labeled, arranged, and assembles in America from chinese materials goddamnit! And the watercooling bits? We bought them from china but we molded them here, you see!
>>29060858Leftists are the most American now?
Cars are too good now. A 2010 Carolla is still a great car.
>>29060861Wanting less regulation - conservativeWanting more regulation - liberalShrimple as that.
>>29060495>>29060511I hate communists so much it hurts
>>29060863ok commie
>>29060718more like complaining that someone killed you in an fps because the admin put a handicap on the damage you deal to others and decreased your movement speed, amongst other things
>>29060495>>29060699years and years ago this was posted on reddit - some madman imported a crown vic into norway. can only imagine how much it'd cost there to run the thing.
>>29060887It's cheaper to drive a full size v8 truck than a tiny little miata. Communists need to be vaxxed again.
>>29060898>It's cheaper to drive a full size v8 truck than a tiny little miata.Fuck yeah we miatachads rich as fuuuck! Deal with it, U MAAAAD BRO?!
>>29060886Nah, more like a new and better gun was made avaliable and you can't adapt to the new meta.
>>29060726*shoots you during a routine traffic stop*
>>29060911>new and better gunlmfao. the other anon already mentioned that regular cars get taxed to oblivion. if that isn't a handicap you're just being pretentious
>>29060928Yeah. They suck cause they're too expensive.
>>29060726>Here, the government are Israel's servants.Ftfy
>>29060960yeah. the admins adapted to the meta by tacking on extra charges and fees just to buy and use them lol
>>29060962>ignores the million things keeping gas cars cheaperThose VLCCs only exist because a few countries decided to sink billions with no returns on ship building.
>>29060726>Here, the government are public servants.>public servants.LOL mutts are actually this fucking retarded
>>29060964lmao. if the losses were that huge do you really think they'd go through with it?>ignores the million things keeping gas cars cheaperyou mean the fact that crude oil is used for a metric shit ton of other stuff besides fuel?i don't see fuel being subsidised either. i wish it could be but that'll be the day. most yuro countries slug their citizens with fuel tax hovering around the 50% mark.
>>29060971They do go through with it because it's government funded.
>>29061293yeah and the govt gets their cut of the pie via taxes and stamp duty etc.
still gay to be an evcuck. always will be.
>>29061718They'll never get the money back.
>>29061766the politicians and their buddies already pocketed their share. time to retire and live off the cushy pension
Pollutions suck. Eletric is the future. Gasoline is extremely inefficient and toxic fuel. All we need is the coming revolution of battery energy density. Then we'll have back our 500hp two door 1200kg coupes.
>>29061889>All we need is new revolutionary batteries!JFC I'm not going to touch that.Anyway. Does it distress you to know that most electricity is made by burning fossil fuels with similar losses to car engines? And that the current political climate is pushing more fossil fuel use in the big countries (US, China, Russia)? Or that old fashioned hydro power is the biggest source of non-fossil?We might make more renewables, and say that the percentage of renewables has increased but in sheer numbers, more coal and natural gas are burned now for electricity than ever before.
>>29061900Pollution in a power plant is different from pollution in the city and when you consider the efficiency an electric car powered entirely by coal or oil is less polluting than a ICE vehicle even if you don't accunt for the reduced brake particles. A big thermal power plant can simply get more out of the fuel than a small engine running under suboptimal conditions. Urban traffic is the biggest issue and ICE is a very bad option for that.
>>29061948>Pollution in a power plant is different from pollution in the cityI'm ~40, I grew up in the '90s when every restaurant was a huge smokescreen when you opened the door. I have asthma, I have a nebulizer less than 10 feet away. I don't think cars are the cause. I think you're full of shit. We've improved cars so much in terms of emissions - you only complain because it's what the previous generation made changes with so you think cars ARE pollution. There's a lot more to pollution and people FUCKING REFUSE to acknowledge it. Roads and roof tiles are made from crude oil, pharmaceuticals and cosmetics come from crude oil. The military? It uses a shit ton for nothing. And you (or people like you) believe electricity is magical free energy from the wall and that a 4-cylinder is destoying the planet. Oh yeah, let me talk single use plastics, especially in medical - yo plastics are made from crude oil..There is no free energy machine. If you ignore that your electricity came from burning coal to boil water to create steam to spin a turbine - it might seem efficient and non-polluting, Every time you charge your phone fossil fuels are burned. Fossil fuels were burned to run the infrastructure and servers to make this post.
>>29061957>roof tiles are made from crude oilRoof tiles are made out of clay. I understand this is schizo babble either way but this is just too much.
>>29061967The most common roofing tiles are made of bitumen, which comes from fractionation of crude oil and is also used for asphalt.It's not schizobabble when I'm right.
>>29061980Where are those the most common and how exactly does that even relate to pollution?You clearly have mental issues, likely caused by combustion engines and petrol fumes.
>>29061995They're the most common worldwide. It's crude residue that binds some metals.And you think electricity is magical clean energy from the wall. I'm a mechanical engineer, are you?I'm serious, most electricity (especially in the US / China) is made from burning fossil fuels to boil water.
>>29062001>And you think electricity is magical clean energy from the wall. Where do you get that from aside the voices in your head? Provide a real argument why a car in urban stop-and-go traffic isn't more polluting than a power plant miles away from the city or a shingled roof.
>>29061957>>29061980>things are made out of oilWhat's your point?
>>29062087That we shouldn't burn the oil since it's needed for things that can't be as easily replaceable as motor traffic.
>>29060495>>29060511Same shit across the EU, none of it is natural but no one is stopping it. They're murdering ice cars cold blood.
>>29060452Governments are phasing out cars made before 2005 to aide this by introducing clean air zones.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2024-03-21/evs-are-much-lower-emitting-than-combustion-carsMy BloombergNEF colleague Corey Cantor just published a detailed report on the lifecycle emissions of electric vehicles, looking at everything from average battery pack sizes by region, battery manufacturing emissions, current and projected electricity-generation emissions, day- and night-time charging trends, and more.Corey comes to the same conclusion that virtually all other independent studies have: EVs have lower lifecycle emissions than their internal combustion counterparts.Even in places like China, where coal still plays a large role in power generation, EVs have lower emissions overall. The reduction is around 27% there, compared to 71% lower in a market like the UK, where coal has been mostly pushed out of the generation mix. In a market like the US, an EV becomes a cleaner option after about 25,000 miles of driving, which is about 2.2 years for the average US vehicle.The power sector is changing rapidly, with more clean generation capacity being added to the grid. This means that by 2030, the breakeven point will have moved up significantly in all regions. An EV made in the US in 2030 will be lower-emitting after a year of driving, while in China, it will be after just over four years, based on current trends. Battery recycling eventually will push EV emissions down even further, as will localizing battery production closer to demand centers.One final caveat to all vehicle lifecycle emissions work is that most studies (including BNEF’s) don’t include emissions from refining and distributing gasoline and diesel.These fuels don’t just appear at the pump, and anybody who has driven by an oil refinery can see the vast scale of our current energy infrastructure. This is a tricky area to pin down, but global refinery emissions are somewhere around 1.4 gigatons of CO2 annually. That’s a few percent of global CO2 emissions.
>EVs are a car as serviceThis isn't inherent to EVs. An EV can be just as simple as a normal ICE car, if not even more. Besides, modern ICE cars are also loaded with electronics and optional subscriptions. This is clearly an industry-wide trend and not inherent to a particular driveline.>EVs cause pollution through electricityEven in countries with dirty electricity generation, it's still preferrable over the pollutions caused by the extraction, refinement, shipment, transportation and then the burning of fuels. It takes about 20,000km of driving before the pollution costs of battery manufacturing are compensated for. Which by the way is becoming easier and cheaper with salt/LFP batteries so that threshold goes ever lower.>Even if there's less pollution, there's ton more brake wear and tire particulate pollutionThere is no brake wear since EVs use regenerative braking. You can use the same brake discs throughout an EV's life span. The tire wear is negligible compared to exhaust and brake dust pollutions and dependant on how you drive. >EV owners want to take my ICE car awayLegislators have been fighting the ICE car for decades, well before the arrival of Tesla Model S and frankly killed the ICE through exhaust regulations anyways. Most EV owners don't think an outright ban on ICE cars will benefit EVs. In fact EVs need the competition of ICE cars to keep improving. >I need to drive 400 miles every day without break, EVs can't do thatIf you're one of those extreme outliers, then stick to your diesel. For most people, the benefit of having a fully charged car every day for their modest commute distance is preferrable.>EVs are boring, my ICE car isn'tMost ICE cars on the road are FWD 110hp shitboxes that can barely beat a hill without shifting to first gear and seeing the tiny box barely crawl its way above the hill. I think most EVs are more fun than most ICE cars on the road. However EVs will never replace the thrill of a V8, and shouldn't either.
>>29062244For>>29061900>>29061957
>>29062241Nice. I hope they implement that across every city.
Things change, more at 11
>>29061728Look how many fags are even on /o/ shilling this shit, it's so fucking over it's tragic. I need to find a job I can bike to before long because I sure as fuck can not stop the powers that be.
>>29062001From what I can gather, asphalt shingles are only used in North America. Otherwise clay or concrete are far more common. Asphalt is used in roll form.
>>29062237This isn't some conspiracy or anything. They are merely making ICE vehicles pay for the damage they cause. Cars are a privilege and not a right. Ask around and many people will say that they're still getting off too easily.
>>29062335What damage?
>>29062335Did you know? The hole in the ozone layer that caused runaway warming was from refrigerants and aerosols. Did you know? Natural gas is over 80x worse as a greenhouse gas than CO2.People are retarded and can’t see that cars aren’t the cause of all pollution. They hear that story about tetraethyl lead and catalytic converters and think, “we’ve got to do that again,” and they look past all the food waste, CFCs, PFCs, military, air conditioning, the thousands of food refrigerators in stores across the land, plastic waste, pharma waste, all sorts of stuff because they’re convinced pollution only comes from cars.The reality is that the population increases and thus pollution does. You want to make a difference? Don’t have kids.
>>29062389A cruise ship burns 10 tons of heavy crude an hour. Is there a reason cruise ships exist?Why are we sending fruit from Argentina to be packaged in china then shipped again and sold in the US?Airplanes don’t have catalytic converters lol.Oh, and the AI data center thing? Jesus.Bitcoin? It’s produced by wasting electricity.There are many things that could be done. It’s easier to just put more and more regulations on automobiles and pat yourself on the back.
>>29062335What damage? CO2 is plant food and a warmer world is better.
>>29062405Speaking of plants. Deforestation, farming, and livestock are huge factors.We have taken out 14% of the planet’s tree coverage just since 2000.We deplete the land of minerals and nutrients then have an entire polluting industry to make fertilizer to put said nutrients back in the soil. Corn, for example, leeches nutrients from soil heavily and quickly.When we kill the forest, it can’t take up CO2.Have I mentioned all the pharma waste making all the frogs gay? All those birth control metabolites women piss out and all the psych med metabolites are destroying fish and reefs.We’re wrecking the planet in a myriad of ways.
>>29062389>People are retarded and can’t see that cars aren’t the cause of all pollutionWho said they were? ICE cars are responsible for a big portion of the pollutant that is CO2.
>>29062423CO2 is not a pollutant. Did you get the covid vaccine? You sound communist.
>>29062461It is a pollutant.
>>29062465No it isn't. It's a completely inert gas that makes plants grow. That's why they call it a greenhouse gas.
>>29062414>When we kill the forest, it can’t take up CO2.Most CO2 is taken up by algae. But I'm not sure where you're trying to get. There are attempts to combat those things as well.
>>29062401Cruise ships are getting banned from cities. Air planes don't spend that long in cities either.Data centers are build outside cities and they don't even cause local pollution aside from waste heat.
>>29062389>The hole in the ozone layer that caused runaway warming was from refrigerants and aerosols. And it has been recovering since those chemicals were phased out. And it was far harder to grasp as pollution since it's not as obvious as exhaust or engine noises.There actively measures taken to reduce other sources of pollution like heating. Your individual pollution footprint is highly variable, hence why a Chinaman pollutes more than a European but less than an American. With your attitude we'd still be burning coal and wood in our homes because it wouldn't make a difference anyway.
>>29062477Killing the forest to build things out of wood sequesters the carbon and makes room for more trees to grow.
>>29062479If it doesn't happen in a city, it doesn't count? Based, I never want to hear about cow methane ever again.
>>29062479I live deep in the forest. Out my window is a sea of green leaves.You could too.
>>29062491I’m actually pro-nuke / hydro / wind with nat gas for above baseline and maybe some coal just in case as it’s responsive, you can “fire it up” quickly.I just like driving manual ICE cars, that’s why I’m here, and people want to ban them. I see pollution everywhere and think it’s unfair to force me into an automatic surveillance box when there are countless other factors. Moving me from a Miata to a 4,600 lb Tesla wouldn’t change jack shit other than make me less happy.
>>29062542There's different kinds of pollution. Greenhouse gases are global but particles, noise, nitrous oxide and many other pollutants mainly matter when they actually affect peoples lives.
>>29062886It's a big world out there. You don't have to live in the city. We have cars, so we can live out of town and drive to work and to do commerce shit.I have been to the ER for asthma 5-10x in my life. It wasn't ever from being in NYC or smoky german bars, it was from cats and horses. You're making it out to be a bigger deal than it is. People live long, full lives in cities - it's not like people are peeling over coughing blood.
All cyclists are niggerfaggots that deserve to be ran over by trucks btw.
>>29062467oh yeah i remember when they had to globally agree to ban cfc's in stuff like hair spray because were were releasing so much of it it was permanently altering and damaging the ozone levels.anyways back to your statement about how too much greenhouse gases isnt a bad thing
>>29060495>>29060511This is why we should never take it for granted how good we have it in the USA. You can get a V8 sports coupe for $35k here.
>>29063002You're goddamn right.I bitch and moan about healthcare costs and corruption, porn is basically illegal in my state and weed any amount is a felony, but there's still nowhere else I'd rather live.RWD hot rods for under $10k with zero rust and no inspections of any kind? Maybe a $12 ad valorem tax every year. I can't complain.
>>29063009>man our lives are miserable and everything is a hellish wasteland of high prices>but oh boy, circuses and bre-well, just circuses! to die for!
>>29061889you just know some tree hugger is going to be absolutely horrified when they find out the gasoline nobody uses anymore is simply being discarded into a gasoline lake to evaporate into the atmosphere so they'll insist it needs to be dealt with and then a small group of people can run old cars again as long as it beats just dumping it on to the ground
>>29063055Well, I pay some of the highest healthcare costs of anyone in the US. I was born with a terminal illness and they can't deny me coverage, but they can offer only the most expensive plans. The lowest the gov't marketplace offered me was $860 / mo. But - I don't have to pay $150,000 to buy a $30,000 car that I may not be able to even drive to my place of employment. And, I don't pay over USD $10 / US Gallon, I pay $3.65 even today. And I don't have to pay silly road taxes. And I don't have to pay for an entire car inspection infrastructure.
>>29060695>>29060495huh, just when i started to really really think i had to get the fuck out of america, you eurofaggots had to go and show us how its donejesus fucking christid rather live with niggers than you fucking pussies
>>29063081grim
>>29061900>with similar losses to car enginesPowerplants are so massively more efficient that even comparing their energy losses to cars is retarded. the ICE engines in passenger cars have thermal efficiencies around 30%. Combined cycle natural gas is like 60%.
>>29063002>V8 sports coupe for $35kwhere? even a Miacuck or GayR86 is near 40K these days
>>29063118Maybe 50%. But, that's the efficiency at the output of the turbine. It has to be modulated for transmission, transmitted, modulated back, then transmitted again with losses at every step.Then there are 10% losses in the EV itself.I'd say we're about even.
>>29063121Picrel, the Camaro, the Mustang, vettes. Lots of stuff.I just bought a manual LSD 1.8L rust-free miata for less than $5k including taxes and registration this year.Europeans let the government take control. And the results of that are clear.
>>29063132it's not our fault we live in a communist dictatorship
>>29063118>the ICE engines in passenger cars have thermal efficiencies around 30%.At what speed?
>>29063126>making up numbers until they make me feel right
>>29060495I'm fairly sure you've doubled the tax. The purchase price you used _already_ has import+registration taxes applied.
>>29063126Now take into consideration the waste inflicted in extracting, refining, shipping and then transporting that crude oil into petrol at your local gas station. We're talking about waste that exceeds NINETY PERCENT of what actually drives the car. It's insane how inefficient petrol is as fuel. But hey it's cheap and energy dense sure.
>>29063349that crude oil has a ton of other extremely useful products that are the precursors for pretty much every single modern convenience we use today though
>>29064049Unlike electricity which is good for nothing besides chrging cars? Crude oil byproducts would still be able to be extracted with the part of refining, shipping and transporting that crude oil into gas station petrol. Hell that oil is better used as electricity than petrol.
>>29064288>with the*without
>>29064288>Unlike electricity which is good for nothing besides chrging cars?i never said that. but when you crack oil petrol is a byproduct. currently the way we crack it maximises petrol production but even if it were minimised there's still gonna be some left and you just know hippies are gonna throw a fit if you just discard it. what better way to get rid of it than to fill up an old jalopy with it
>>29064405The remnants will go to fields that are hard to decarbonize like the military or airlines, not people driving cars as a hobby. Gas pumps are going to become as rare as hydrogen pumps. The reason so much gets made out of petroleum is because the byproducts are cheap or in cases like sulfur even superfluous.
>>29064438>The reason so much gets made out of petroleum is because the byproducts are cheapyou'd be surprised to know that most of the products of oil go into lubricants. there's a ridiculous amount of money and research into just keeping shit lubed up
>>29061889What's your native language?
>>29060534hes retarded
>>29061889>Russia has a third the population of the US>Landmass comparable>Economy of a sick dog>Somehow they pollute enough to tie the US Shocking desu
>>29067298>Landmass comparableHow many tigers does the US have?
>>29067346Did you know that Russia has A I D S??
