EV's are like $10k more than gas cars and you make up the difference in a few years with fuel savings, so why are people still buying gas cars?
>>29119201because it takes 15 seconds to fill up the tank and the resell value is higher, so the savings aren't that great
>>29119201It takes about 50k-80k miles to break even on the cost difference between a new ICE and EV car. If you buy a $1000 civic, it'll take well over a million miles for the EV owner to break even. Shitbox Chads win again.
>>29119201Some people are still heterosexual.
enormous depreciation costs mean that you either permanently keep a lease payment or lose more in trade/resale than what you save on gas. the fuel savings are predicated on using at home charging, which isn't feasible for a lot of people
>>29119225then go buy a used EV for 5 grand if they are so cheap according to you
>>29119208civics dont cost one thousand dollars anymore
>>29119241You might have to settle on a CRV. There's still plenty of $1k cars out there.
>>29119241
>>29119201Because it would take me like 5 to 7 years to break even. That's not taking into account that electricity is not free. My power up here in Washington it's cheaper than hell at around 10 cents a kilowatt but still.
>>29119275Probably needs $5k in repairsNot even exaggerating.You're better off getting something in the $4-6k range that's in actual good shape.
>>29119241Plenty of $1k or less cars out there
>>29119281I've rolled the dice on many $1k or less cars. Little things will often be broken, but if the powertrain is good, then you're cruising baby. Picrel.
>>29119225Depreciation is less of an issue now than it was. EVs used to have a $7500 depreciation hit baked into the MSRP. Prices were higher and drivetrain was worse. Tech and prices have both started to plateau so it will be less of an issue going forward. The biggest factor right now is simply the public's ignorance on battery degradation. Sadly educating the general populace these days is impossible.
>>29119290>battery degradation.Bruh, guys I know Autocross Model 3 performance and their batteries are seeing upwards of 7% battery health loss every year.Meanwhile my dad's 323,000 mile Camry gets the same MPG as it did at new@ 20K miles.
>>29119231I've seriously thought about a gv60 at 30k, but I like my quadrifoglio too much
>>29119204>because it takes 15 seconds to fill up the tankI don't think this is a real argument. It comes into play for long distance driving, but most people don't regularly take trips of that distance. By and large EV owners like not having to go to a gas station at all. This is something hydrogen shills like Toyota don't seem to understand (besides all of the other obvious problems with hydrogen). Recreating a more authentic gas station experience is not something anyone wants.The real answer is people don't want to pay the upfront premium. And some people live in apartments where they aren't going to get the residential rate on electricity. And an even larger portion of the population is not in the market for a new car of any kind and only drive beaters or soon-to-be beaters.
I drive EV but ICE is way cheaper if you want to go budget. You can buy a shitter Toyota for 10k and it will last for years just fine. The cheapest functional EVs are like 25k. You'd need to spend atleast 35k on EVs that actually drive well and have good range. I love my car but it costs me way more than most ICE cars would even considering the cheap fuel and service.
>>29119288>subaru >power plant goodThat’s a good joke
>>29119201Because the electrical grid would probably shit itself. Most people I know that have an EV they are also have a spare gas car or motorcycle, if they forgot to charge it the night before they take the gas powered vehicles instead.
>>29119366No they're not. If they were, you have insane luck to know so many guys who all have incredibly rare defective batteries. Degradation greater than 20% in 8 years is eligibility for replacement under warranty.
>>29119201I like my lightweight, manual 8 cylinder vroom vroom mobile. For pure driving enjoyment I feel like an older analog gas car can't be beat.Fuel however, is an issue. We're paying about 13 USD/Gallon here.For daily commuting and traffic (Or if you see a car as an appliance) I think an EV is superior, which is also why I daily one. But for fun drives nothing beats gas.
>>29119464Hey. Nice car man.
>>29119231ok
>>29119564>less than 100 miles of range used
>>29119366>Bruh, guys I know Autocross Model 3 performance and their batteries are seeing upwards of 7% battery health loss every year.No you don't, if you did, that'd be a bananas good deal because it means they're forced to replace the battery every four years forever.
>>29119430lol no. The electrical grid can handle hundreds of thousands of EVs being manufactured every year. That'd just mean planning a new local natural gas plant (which would be profitable because of those EV sales). The plant will be built in a fourth of the time the EV sales will actually start becoming an issue.You can also just enact city ordinances mandating that EV owners charge their cars at night, when electrical demand is low. These are enforceable without significant load on the government.
>>29119654>good enough for 99.9% of journeysok
>>29119679I know, but some are reporting range as low as 60. That barely gets me into town and back.
>>29119683No, nobody reports a range of 60 in a leaf. The battery will just be dead before it gets that bad.EV batteries lose about 1-2% battery health per year until they get into the low 80s/upper 70s, then they just die in a manner that isn't worth saving. They no longer produce enough voltage. Nissan batteries up until this past year are complete shit so they always lose 2%, not 1%.
>>29119688Look, if you live out innawoods even 100 miles isn’t enough. What if I need to go to the good hospital? Does having a Leaf outside of a city require you to have another car? If you had another car you would never want to drive the Leaf.
>>29119696If you had another car you wouldn't worry about the hospital trip at all and you'd usually drive the car that conveniently saves you shitloads of money. You'll just drive the other car if there's some emergency.
>>29119701But I guarantee Leafs suck ass to drive.That’s the problem I have with you EVfags, you turn cars into a financial spreadsheet. Then you claim the acceleration (of some) makes them fun but they’re really sterile, heavy (Leaf excluded), and boring.Live a little. The Leaf is for people who don’t like driving.
>>29119706>But I guarantee Leafs suck ass to drive.We've both never driven one, but I bet you're right.>That’s the problem I have with you EVfags, you turn cars into a financial spreadsheet. They are. They cost money.What's more, if you actually give a shit about cars, you don't own one car. One of them being an economical EV makes so much sense to the point where trying to be a contrarian about it is retarded. You never have to perform maintenance except on the brakes. It's never out of commission. It doesn't need anything other than a decent parking spot to charge. You can take your favorite car off the road for months while doing a job on it and still live your day job uninterrupted.You're making excuses and talking from ignorance (like the 60 miles thing). If you owned an EV, you'd drive it most of the time.
>>29119241I paid $1800 for this last weekend and it gave me 36mpg driving it back from Florida. 2011 2.5 SE 5MT w/95k miles. Put 1500 miles on it already.it needs an abs pump and a ac compressor, i already bought the abs pump along with a bunch of cosmetics (front door cards, headliner) at a junkyard for $200.
>>29119719Why would I buy a second car just so I didn't get to drive the car I like? That would be cucking myself.I drive a manual mechanical miata and love driving, an EV wouldn't be what I want. I've had faster cars, but this is what I like.It cost me less than $5k. It's also never out of commission, I've driven miatas 12-13 years now and can easily repair anything that's likely to happen.You're pretending like gas cars fail all the time. I've driven 20-30 y.o. shitboxes for 20+ years and have had maybe 2 weeks total downtime for repairs. I even had a 300k mile car and it was fine. I got the potentially as low as 60 figure from a pro-EV site.Stay boring, excel nerd.
>>29119762>Why would I buy a second car just so I didn't get to drive the car I like?Then don't? This isn't a counterargument. No offense, but you just sound too poor to own a used EV if you're this obsessed on that point. It's probably why you keep going back to the leaf.>You're pretending like gas cars fail all the time.No I'm not, I've explicitly pointed out the fact that EVs are fail basically never. Never.
>>29119766>No offense, but you just sound too poor to own a used EVYour whole argument, and OPs, is that EVs save money...
>>29119771>Your whole argumentNo, my argument is what I said. You just keep trying to cut things up into "I own one car, it has to be heavily used, I totally have only been off the road for two weeks out of twenty years by doing this, etc".You are not only wrong, you have a very specific angle that you feel the need to enforce on everyone else. You are trying to justify your lifestyle and this is why you're treating other people "just driving an EV" as a lifestyle. It's really obvious what you think of EVs cause you keep talking about just the leaf, cause it's the cheapest used EV, so you gravitate towards it and won't even consider anything else.
>>29119772Don't bullshit me, your argument was that EVs save money - presumably because you're too poor to afford something fun to drive. Or else you're irrationally scared of gas stations, who knows?
>>29119773>your argument was that EVs save moneyThey do. An EV would save you money, most likely, you just don't like the fact that the up front cost is higher than you're used to.
>>29119201EV's carry inherent risk, and there is a gaslighting/shill campaign that makes them difficult to purchase.
>>29119774Whatever you say bud. If I refute that it would sound like I was bragging.EVs are not the driving experience I enjoy and I'm willing to pay for gasoline no problem. I spend more on alcohol every day, I worry about fun. I like driving.
>>29119777>Whatever you say bud. If I refute that it would sound like I was bragging.It would sound like a weirdly specific and obviously untrue in an objective sense.I'll just repeat it since it's still true. You'd probably save money driving a used EV. And it wouldn't be a fussy car.
>>29119779And I'll repeat it, I don't fucking care. I like driving, I like engines. I'm literally a mechanical engineer, for a reason.I've got 20-25 acres, goats, chickens, 7 dogs, 6 garages. I chose my car because it's fun and very easy to work on myself.
>>29119201>whysome people still have sex with women in the year of our lord 2027-1
>>29119784You're just shaking your fist at clouds.
>>29119788So it goes.
>>29119738The Passat is a great car. Drives so nice.
because hybrids exist and cost slightly less than pure EVs. You can fill a hybrid up in a min and get 60 mpg, but you have to charge an EV all day to get maybe 100mpge, and if you use the quick chargers that drops to 30-40mpge. Oil and gas is still relatively inexpensive in the US, so it doesn't make sense to adopt EV yet
>>29119804Hybrids don't get 60 mpg, you don't own one.An EV will get way better than 100 mpge unless you live in a place like rural New England where the electricity costs 3x the national average by the fuel costs 1x.
>>29119809NTA but pretty close if you drive them properly.
>>29119815The issue isn't "driving properly". It's stuff like "My commute includes hills, this decreases my gas milleage by 2 and there's nothing I can do about it besides take a longer route". Yes on a flat road with an entirely predictable drive path, good weather, traffic that doesn't make you use brake force greater than regenerative, and you don't do stuff like use the heater, then you can get the advertised gas mileage.In reality, expecting a little less is what happens. I drive a hybrid and I'd actually buy another plugin hybrid over an EV, but I won't take away from EV's practical cost advantages.
>>29119672Mate, I live in Australia if there is big enough thunderstorm my internet goes out. The infrastructure is dogshit here.
>>29119201It make no vrum vrum and kachk psh kachunkbvruuuuuum
>>29119201you only save money if you have a charger at home. most people don't>>29119672delusional authoritarian fantasies
>>29119201I like gas cars more and they have more soul.
>>29119201because most places are now literally instituting yearly fines for buying one.
>>29119654>100mi of rangei would only have to charge it once a week with my commute so that's good enough for me
>>29119204>it takes 15 seconds to fill up the tankno one cares and no one wants to get accosted by niggers at the gas station every morning
>>29120126"you have to pay an annual tax to own an ev" says man who pays tax on every gallon of gas he pumps
>>29120129if that's a problem for you then having an EV and charger outside (strongly recommended not to install them fully indoors in case of fire) will be even worse
>>29120129Gibsmedat copper
>>29120126Governments can't collect gas taxes from EV cars and they need those to maintain roads so they bill you in another way.
>>29119201>EV's are like $10k more than gas carsnot really, not anymoremaybe its close to that at the absolute bottom of the market, with things like the fiat 500 and suchbut anywhere above that, its either even steven or a rounding error either way. >why are people still buying gas cars?mostly because for an EV to make sense, you need to be able to charge at home. not just because its cheaper, tho that is absolutely a factor, but mostly because owning an EV without charging at home is extremely impractical. a 10 or 15 or 20 minute charging stop in the middle of a road trip, after having already driven for 3-4 hours (=200-300 miles), is fine. you were going to stop anyway to pee, stretch your legs, grab coffee etc. adding charging only makes what would've been a 5-10 minute stop with an ICE into a 10 mins longer one. no big deal, especially since that shit only happens a low single digit number of times per year (for the vast majority of people).but imagine having to do that twice or thrice a week. every week. after work. when you really wanna head home asap because its already 6pm and you need to be in bed by 12, and you have to cook and do chores and maybe chill for a while too. and now you have to go to a charger, spend 20 mins there? and possibly also wait in line before you can do that at all? yea, no. but if you can charge at home, you don't have those issues. you head home, you plug the fucker in, and you wake up every day to a fully charged car. if anything, it ends up saving you time, because you don't even need to do the weekly trip to a gas stationand, incidentally, this is also why EVs depreciate so much. people that aren't rich enough to buy a new car are also probably not rich enough to own their own home. which you kinda need in order to be able to charge at home. which you need to make an EV viable.there are tons of people out there that would LOVE to get a used model 3 for 15k, but can't, because no home charging.
>>29119876This has fuck all to do with anything. If a thunderstorm takes out a power line then you aren't pumping gas, either.>>29119880Most people can charge their car at home.
>>29120194>Governments can't collect gas taxes from EV cars import taxes, sales taxes, vehicle registration fees, electricity surcharges,>and they need those to maintain roads so they bill you in another way.road maintenance comes from the general coffers and is usually most directly funded by property tax in the immediate area of the road>>29120150>>29120143skill issue, i plug my shit into my wall indoors and just use that normal rate 120v (i am an Illegal E-Moto Child)
I am absolutely willing to pay $5 a day to drive a car I enjoy.That's the upper end of theoretical EV savings. Make a sandwich at home instead of spending $10 / meal on your lunch break if you want to save that.
>>29120847lol, no, faggot. Saving money on food and saving money on fuel are not a paradox.That is not the upper limit on savings, btw.
>>29120853That was just an example to show how trivial the savings are. Sure you can do both. But I see cars as fun, not a financial spreadsheet. Pay a little, live a little.Dude, people spend like $40 a day on food (I know ppl who spend more than that in a meal), the ag industry is massively polluting, and no one says a word.EV savings aren't that great unless you live somewhere with huge gov't incentives.Here's the thing, let's take Norway / Denmark. They highly taxed gas cars without taxing EVs, but once most people had EVs, they started taxing them again...
>>29120858>That was just an example to show how trivial the savings are.In other words, not an argument. Saving money on food and saving money on fuel are not a paradox.
>>29120864No, but you EVfags care more about savings than driving enjoyment. You could save that money in soooo many different ways. Why are you even here? Is having a car purely a financial thing to you?
>>29120873
>>29120873>No, but you EVfags care more about savings than driving enjoyment.No they don't. You don't give a shit about cars, you're obsessed with the car you own, whatever it is, and that's all. That's why you try to talk about food when the economics of an EV comes up.
>>29120904>You don't give a shit about cars, you're obsessed with the car you own,Sure, that's why I'm a mech eng who has done legal racing since 16. I was my uni's FSAE driver in '08, the clutch was a paddle on the steering column. I like cars from all brands, as long as they feel right and do what I tell them to.You drive like every other commuter so you just see fuel savings, quirks, and features.We are not the same, this isn't the place for you.The savings of EVs are equivalent to savings in food, or I could've brought up clothes, whatever. The point is that you are taking minimal savings to drive a boring, sterile suveillance shitbox - why are you on /o/? Maybe try /biz/ if you want to spreadsheet it up.
>>29120916You're the guy who just yesterday said EVs are bad because you own chickens. You're wrong, btw, food and gas are not paradoxes.
>>29120930>said EVs are bad because you own chickensNope. You said I was poor for not wanting an EV (because you're a shill). I simply demonstrated that I wasn't and apparently that bothered you.It's only you EVfags who care about saving $5 a day over living for yourself.
>>29120942>You said I was poor for not wanting an EVYou obsess over costs while blaming anything other than your shitbox, when an EV would in fact save you money. You even do it in another thread. Only someone who is poor does this, because he can't afford the up-front cost of the EV.You can't admit it saves money. You say anything to admit it doesn't save money. You find anything to say to say anything other than it saves money.
i like evs because they sound convenient and fun enough since they still go fast even if no vroom vroom noises but every actual modern example of an ev is dogshit but even then only because every modern car, regardless of power source, is dogshit
>>29120847You said in the EV thread yesterday that you drive an hour to work and an hour back everyday. That's not $5 in gas.
>>29120951>You can't admit it saves money.Have you not been reading my comments? I'll gladly pay $5 a day to drive a car I enjoy.EV saves money over a new ICE, I never said it didn't. In fact, I admitted you get like $5 a day in savings. But I got the car I actually wanted, for $4k and it's reliable as fuck. Why would I drive something I don't enjoy driving (this is /o/), that is guaranteed to have surveillance to save a paltry sum a day? You're a shill.
>>29120958No, I said I have done that at points in my life. It's about 20-25 min each way now, and there's no traffic here so I don't have to do that stop and go shit.
>>29120960You are a liar who obsessed over a car you should probably actually own.
>>29120963>a car you should probably actually own.Yep, shill.
>>29120962>No, I said I have done that at points in my lifeNo you said an hour commute. FYI you still pay more than $5 from this post alone. You li
>>29120967Ligma
>>29120967Yeah, I'm a grown man, at points in my life I did have an hour each way commute. I don't anymore.Learn2Read, maybe that's why you're so fucking poor you worry about saving less than a big mac a day.
>>29120970>I changed my story laterLiar.Nobody is fooled. All anyone is thinking about is how you just made up a $5 number, it's obviously untrue, you do this shit in multiple threads, and you write whatever it takes to make your story sound plausible.You are the actual worst kind of poster. It doesn't even sound like you do this for money.
>>29120973>All anyone is thinking about is how you just made up a $5 numberI got that from picrel. I hate AI, too, but why don't you refute the claim?I did drive an hour each way for several times in my life, I never once claimed that I was doing so now.I'm sorry that you condense cars to fuel savings, but I like driving. I get maybe 20mpg and do not care a single bit.
>>29120979>picrelAh, I just like my chickens.Again, I don't like AI either but the google search AI just goes off various sources and the only generative part is how it's worded.
>>29120981This AI is assuming gas cars average about 40mpg.
>>29120988Oh no! My 20mpg car costs $6 a day!I live driving, I will pay pay that to get what I want.
>>29120991So you openly claim you only drive to work and back?
>>29120994You're trying too hard, shill.
>>29119201You only spend like $1k on gas a year if you drive 10k miles. Do the math. An EV depreciates like $10k per year of ownership because people know the batteries go to shit. By 100k miles, you'll be lucky to get $10k for the EV you bought for $50k.You lose a substantial amount of money compared to a gas car, if you consider tens of thousands substantial which most working class poors do. You're not considering that it's actually cheap to fuel a gas car, and EVs devalue like crazy in comparison to a gas car. Even hybrids don't ever pay off the initial cost difference. Retards pay more because they don't actually do the math, they don't know how because retards can't even fathom the equations needed. Use chatgpt I guess.
>>29119201I pay less registration and insurance fee on a V8 car then I can with an EV car in a "green" state. It's not like I drive my car every day, but also I don't drive more than 50 miles a day to matter the cost of fuel. In fact nothing's changed and there is no reason to get a 2nd car purely for commute or to steal electricity from the school parking lot over night, it's highly uneconomical. The registration cost won't change unless you sell your EV car to the next person, who will pay less for registration of a re-assessed vehicle. The point is there is no reason to get a new car in this government caused economic bubble, and EV's are new cars.
