>6.0 12cyl engine>awd>top trim>costs 10kwhat's the catch?
>>29140546
>>29140546>>6.0 12cyl engineAnd you think this W12 engine is some advantage?1. Because the engine bay is so tightly packed, even a minor fault—such as a faulty sensor located behind the engine or a small leak—can require the removal of the entire front end, the suspension, or sometimes even the complete powertrain. The labor costs can end up being many times higher than the price of the part itself.2. A heavy engine sitting over the front axle accelerates the wear and tear of suspension components (like control arms) and the braking system.3. In city driving, fuel consumption rarely drops below 15–20+ liters per 100 km, and in many places, registration fees and insurance premiums are driven up significantly by the 6.0-liter displacement.4. As the vehicle ages, issues like oil leaks (e.g., from valve cover gaskets), cooling system problems (involving plastic pipes and T-connectors), and the wear of auxiliary components (such as the alternator or air conditioning compressor) tend to arise.
>>29140546It doesn't look cool.
>>29140546There are just dumb people who sell cars cheap. You are smart and should take advantage of that.
>>29140546Expensive, complicated, not well supported. Its special car that can only be maintained by insane peoplet. Audi enjoyer
>>29140546>what's the catch?The W12 engine.
>>29140596The only upside if you could call it that, of these timing systems is a tensioner or guide failure almost never grenades the engine on its own, and the failure is usually telegraphed via chain rattle. At worst, you will have a cam skip a tooth which will cause a misfire on every cylinder on that bank. If its ignored further, yeah it can blow up. While its easy to argue its a retarded design, you also couldn't package engines the way audi does, in cars this size, with an awd system if it wasnt for the rear mounted chain.
I wonder how much of the electronics on the W12 are necessary.Like could you strip it down and run a megasquirt or just fab an intake and slap a pair of Holleys on it?Would be a fun engine to dick around with (like the Jaguar V12 test mule van- cool story if youre not aware of it)
>>29140599They packaged the V8s fine with a front mounted belt for decades. If you want a maintainable A8, that non-FSI V8 is the engine to go for.
>>29140602They did but that was on their older platforms. When they wanted to create the RS4 which was on the b6 platform, the v8 wouldn't fit without moving the chains to the rear. That put the chains in an already reinforced part of the block and allowed them to shave about an inch off the overall length of the engine. Audi ended up running with it and simply re-used it on all of their longitudinal engines after that point. The timing system, other than the access, really isnt that bad on these engines. If you use the OE timing locks its near impossible to fuck up.
>>29140604They still ran belt-drive V8s on the pre-facelift D3 A8 and Phaeton for a bit, concurrently with the B6/B7 S4 and Allroad.
>>29140609It wasnt an all-at-once changeover, I know that much. My guess is it saved them a lot of money engineering around front belt and rear chain variations, so going forward they just kept using the chains and the belts were phased out eventually.
>>29140613Probably, although apparently it was still worth it to make an updated belt-driven variant for the big cars.Either way that's my advice to OP, if you want an A8 that's less likely to send you into the deepest pits of financial despair, get a pre-facelift D3 or a D2 with the V8. Those are solid engines.
>>29140622I would agree with this, OP.Personally im after an rs5,, planning in buying the equipment and documentation i need to subframe-drop and do chains myself if needed. Thats because i want the experience and am willing (so far) to put up with the shit an aging high performance audi is going to ask of me, but if you want the audi experience/quality with less headache, listen to this anon and buy a belt driven 4.2. The weirder engined audis are some of the most unique driving experiences you can buy, but you really need a screw loose to put up with them.
>>29140549Fortune favors the brave.
>>29140596>W12>its actually shaped like a YWhy did they do this?
>>29140696They couldn't really name it a Y12, that implies 3 banks radially. Most V engines are somewhat Y shaped because of the crankcase and sump.
>>29140696its akshualy a VV engine
The catch is its GermanNever buy kraut crap. Shrimple as that.
>>29140757Skill and income issue
>>29140546>A8 W12it's right there in the title
OP here, so your main issue is the engine, but:>closed deck>lightweight aluminium>actually compact for a 12 cyl>no design flaws>timing is simplier than in 3.0 tdi v6 which there were milions sold here in the euso can i consider myself this >>29140593? is it a hidden gem that i found?
>>29140546the car might be cheap, but the spare parts when it breaks won't be
>>29141014The only cars it really shares parts with are the Phaeton and Bentley Continental GT, and even then not as many as you might think.They're rare and likely incredibly expensive when something breaks, and that engine bay is as full as it gets because that engine is shoehorned in there.Cool, but not advisable if you don't have a shop and a lot of wrenching experience.
>>29141042>but not advisable if you don't have a shop and a lot of wrenching experience.Audi is unironically the pleb filter brand. They make (made) some of the most ridiculous powertrains in the industry, put them into some of the best built cars that can put their power down, safely, in any weather, in a package that attracts almost no attention. They are knower cars, especially the S/RS models. They are the top choice of European organized crime because of their oft ridiculous powerplants + subdued styling. They are just within reach of "normal" people after depreciation, but they take more money, care and time to fix by the time they become 'affordable.' The people who manage to maintain them competently are disciplined and organized, because you have to be to fix them right. Its a car that scares speculators. There is no financial benefit to buying an audi. Any appreciation will be offset by maintenance costs and this is just accepted across the community, even for old models. Nobody sells them because of how they drive. Its the running cost to have access to that drive, especially if you cant do it yourself, and then its just a numbers game. I cant even find fault in that, and in fact its the reason most audis get sold. All of these layers filter out a tremendous amount of people i.e. pleb filter >tldr is seeing an old audi on the road is the old man in a profession where men die young.
Wasn't this thing also the VW Phaeton, or was that different?
>>29141411Same platform
>>29141411Same or at least closely related drivetrain, alu spaceframe instead of steel. Phaeton shares more with the Bentley Continental family.
>>29140546>what's the catch?You're maintaining a fucking bentley nigga, but it's depreciated down to Honda Accord levels for people who like not only struggling in life with how much this motherfucker is gonna cost to keep going, but also like having a car people don't give a fuck about because it's wearing a VW badge.
>>29140625The RS5 doesn’t really have chain issues. Most stuff is placed in an easy spot to reach desu. I did most stuff myself
>>29141411Yes but they share almost no parts as the Audi is Aluminum and the Phaeton is steel and Piech didn’t let them share tech like AC
>>29141486I read the last couple years of the CFSA had the guides changed. Its mostly pcv, cooler or injector issues I hear about. Early rs5s had mechatronics issues but by now they've all been repaired, and by 2014MY the issue was fixed altogether. I genuinely dont hear about late rs5s having a lot of problems relative to other models of the time.
>>29141014I have trouble finding parts for my B5 sometimes, I can only imagine how difficult it is for the higher end models of a similar year.
>>29141486The S4 is the one with the plastic guides that has the chain issues, this is true. Ironically people waste more money by compromising for the S4 because the timing chains fail.
>>29141507VW is terrible at legacy parts availability
>>29141508Only the B6/B7 generation, all the FSI V8s have the metal-backed guides afaik. Same with the FSI V6s and V10s.
>>29141510the b5 is over 25 years old and a common shitbox found on every scrap yard.You expect a heritage parts program for that?
>>29141514i expect heritage parts for RS cars. i've seen many people having issues with B7 RS4s or C6 RS6s which arent that old
>>29141517Nta, but even as a huge audi simp I think the lack of a heritage parts program is their biggest problem
>>29140696
>>29141520>the lack of a heritage parts program is their biggest problemnot even by a long shot lol. Their current line up is so bad received they are at the end of their worst financial year this century. There is a coinflip chance they dont exist anymore by 2030
>>29141550Im not really interested in audi after 2016 so that doesnt bother me much
>>29141552you seem to not understand, audi going out of buiseness will mean nobody can provides spares or fix your 2016 electronic shitbox.the chink spare market may sell a muffler or shock, but they cant ship compatible ecu's
>>29141567If they already dont provide replacements im not seeing the difference it would make
>>29140546I don't know if it's exclusively a bong thing, but we have had 6L V12s around or under 10k for a while now. Big engines for small prices are always down to them being absolute mechanical nightmares and glorified tinker toys. They just don't last, nor does the supply in spare parts for them last either.If they weren't money pits, you wouldn't be seeing them sell for 10k to begin with.
I'm not an Audi fan but apparently I can get a supercharged v6 (3.0L) A6 from 2016 with 44k miles here for $9k, or a slightly older 2014 model for $5k. These are apparently reliable too, so I guess this is just the brand image dragging them down?
>>29141567Every unique part for 10+ year old S/RS cars is discontinued already anyway. Their part support fucking SUCKS.
>>29141597They are a premium brand thats just within reach of poors after depreciation, which means a lot of poor buy a $80k used car for 10k, then they do a shocked pikachu face the moment they get a repair bill which is for a 80k car, not a 10k car. If you go above audi to say Porsche, everyone just accepts high maintenance costs and complications are a given, plus they have the benefit of being more exclusive which helps their resale. The shop cost of repairing an audi out of warranty can easily mechanically total the vehicle or comes close to it. This means its going to be pretty much exclusively DIY enthusiasts owning them, or retards who cant afford/refuse to maintain them properly.
>>29141607>every unique part>Their part supportDamn im glad i didnt bought a double digit previous owner count boy racer cobbled together by a 1000 man gmbh.You do understand that the S and RS models are neither build nor sold by Audi?
VAGshit is bad enough when its only 4 cylinders.
>>29141486>>29141502I really love the RS5 B8.5. Worth maintaining. They don’t make anything like it anymore. >>29141508Yes. But the S5 can get a manual. I’d recommend the RS5 every time but I think the S5 is a good choice for some. >>29141517>>29141597It’s a great car. It’s partly because Audi for a long time wasn’t advertising the sportiness. They’ve always been the weird engineer and suspenders family guy car. They’ve don’t have the curb appeal of a corvette or bmw for flexing despite being performance and tech based cars. >>29141607It’s really bad imo. They don’t even service stuff before like 2009 or something at my local dealer. They straight up say no. With that said the Porsche brand is partly alive becuase Porsche Classic is viewed internally as a way of maintaining profitable relationship with customers long term and they are even looking at refurbishing their stuff. I expect at some point Audi will take a serious look at implementing such a project for RS and S cars bc they are desirable and still out there and people will pay for OEM parts.They don’t have quite the price freedom as Porsche or the volume of existing and running vehicles to sell parts for like Porsche does but even a small team selling RS2 hoses and things from classics would be a huge asset for the brand’s core customer of enthusiast. And those are the people that do the most for the brand
