Some context: I'm a European, have a wife and child (8), and my outdoor experience has always been mainly spring and summer, occasionally early autumn fishing, hiking and kayaking trips lasting 2-5 days on average. We have some outdoor gear, but I haven't truly worked to make bugout bags or anything of the sort.I've lately been considering the concept of bugging out, in relation to tensions with Russia. In that process I realized that there are many hundreds of thousands who "bugged out" in the last two decades and the prepping/bugout bag people don't often seem to mention them at all. There are also hundreds of homeless people in my country alone who survive daily in any weather.Are we not doing enough learning the lessons that these groups have to offer about the realities of bugging out? Or is the blindspot just mine?I guess the question/discussion would be:>How do you think being a refugee for weeks or months changes the concept of bugging out?>How does long term homelessness impact bugging out?>How do you think dragging a family around impacts bugging out? How do you keep them safe and "on tempo" in long term away situations?
>>2880204>Europe during the final collapsethere will be nowhere to run, you will be killed by the current refugees swarming as things fall apart, and then you wife and child may live a bit longer, but not in any way they would want to.The most plausible plan is setting up a place to hold out for 6 months where you already live stocking up your own supplies now, but euro laws and fundamental culture are going to make that almost impossible.
What should they mention? I guess there are less people that are prepared that you think, not even talking about people with a proper BOB. Bugging out in Europe is also a lot different than USA or whatever. The only chance you got here is to move away from big cities and maybe got some kind of getaway plan.
>>2880204easy without cold winters
>>2880205I'm not sure what scenario you are describing exactly. Could you elaborate on the situation you envision here?>>2880208Yeah, it's definitely different from the US. We have much less unused land area, and there are very few places with no habitation whatsoever. If we turn refugee from a war with Russia we are also quick to run out of places to go other than south. Crossing the Mediterranean isn't a solution in most cases from a pov that emphasises safe living. Crossing the Atlantic is difficult for the sheer distance, and one can argue that the Americas have few places to go that are both developed and safe. More concretely I'm wondering if the type of gear usually found in BOBs is even going to support overcoming the main challenges.>>2880222What constitutes a cold winter is probably very relative. But also even a prolonged stretch of just below freezing is a challenge in itself if fire and hot showers are out while tents are in. Not to mention food scarcity. I'm almost tempted to say that the most valuable thing to pack as a refugee is the capacity for gainful employment at the location where you find yourself. Becoming a functioning part of the target location is what gives access to the "luxuries" of any basically functioning society like food, clean water, fuel and a safe place to rest.I guess thats my question. Apart from packing a thru hiking setup to even get there (should we even?), how can one plan to ingratiate themselves to a host community? And how do you prepare for the risks involved of doing so, and/or select a location where risks are low and opportunities abundant?
>Maladaptive daydreaming poster, I summon you!
>>2880204Those are invaders, not refugees.Stop using globalist propaganda terms.
>>2880204I see a lot of refugees as part of my job and I can tell you that "refugee" is a broad fucking term. It encompasses a wide range of people in very different situations. If you want to learn a lesson from refugees then the lesson you should learn is 'be the Burmese guy studying finance and dripping in Gucci or the Iranian engineer who rolled up in a Porsche rather the Somali trading his sisters for passage across the Med'.The issue with "prepping" to be a refugee is that a lot of the things that will really make a difference take a great deal of effort to achieve and they're hard to justify unless you think the prospect of fleeing your country is very real. I'm in a ridiculously fortunate position should I ever need to become refugee - I've got 4 passports and my wife has two, between us we have family who would support us spread across 5 countries, we're both employed in high-demand fields, we have sufficient wealth in relatively liquid assets that we could support ourselves for at least a couple of years without working and enough wealth in cash/gold/crypto to afford a plane ticket+a few months rent anywhere you care to mention - that's great for me but there's not a lot of scope for actionable advice there.
>>2880205You're in for a treat
>>2880237No retard, lmao. You don't get to change the meaning of words. A refugee is someone that takes refuge, eg moves from their area of permanence to a safer location. Most refugees are displaced within their country of origin. Immigrants move for personal gain. An immigrant is not a refugee, even if from shithole countries. >I've got 4 passports and my wife has two, between us we have family who would support us spread across 5 countries, we're both employed in high-demand fields, weYeah, I doubt that. Anyway, this is the outdoors board. These insane rambling threads don't belong here.
>>2880263>A refugee is someone that takes refuge, eg moves from their area of permanence to a safer location. Most refugees are displaced within their country of origin.>Immigrants move for personal gain. An immigrant is not a refugee, even if from shithole countries.You're the one trying to change the meaning of words, buddy. If a refugee moves to another country then they are, by definition, an immigrant.And the fact of someone seeking refuge does not preclude their becoming an economically productive member of whatever society they move to.The Burmese guy was here on a student visa when he built a website to help people donate funds to the rebels back home. The junta found out and are likely to imprison him if he returns. The fact that he's living very comfortably as a student because his family are/were presumably some form of local elites is immaterial to that.
OP here, thanks for the responses all. But now I'd like to try and steer it back to more concrete conversation about being outdoors. To try to make the conversation more concrete I'll lay out a few scenario's that are somewhat realistic, and I'm assuming my own location in the Netherlands as a jumpoff point.>Scenario: Russia attacks NATO and I need to move my family out of reach from the strikes. Likely going to Spain/Portugal or if thats not far removed enough, Argentina.>Scenario: widespread and long term flooding put millions into movement. Likely target locations Germany, Belgium, France. >Do we think being a refugee is similar to being a thru hiker? I.e. what gear, advice and behaviours of thru hikers translate well into a situation where I'd have to take my family to Spain on foot. A seemingly obvious difference would be that thru hikers have a general support structure along the trail, where they can buy food, shower, repair and replace gear etc. What does it mean for how much food you bring or what gear you take? >Gas stove jay or nay? I imagine there's little chance to refill or replace gas canisters...>Water purification tablets for months of use packed from day 1? Or just bring a sawyer purifier and hope for the best?>Emergency rations jay or nay? I know they're barely palatable but I dont think there's a more efficient way of bringing calories in terms of space and weight?>How much impact would it make to carry extra clothing, like winter layers if its not cold right now and the target location is generally warm? Any thru hikers in the thread that carry extra clothing on the trail?
>>2880224Yes, I admit to this partially. The topic is about scenarios that are not necessarily immediately at hand. I'm not going on a refugee trip next weekend.However, I am literally buying shit and packing to prepare for the mentioned scenarios and that is a topic that does directly relate to /out/. I'm also already using the gear I buy and the plans I make to get my daughter into hiking and camping trips. These are meant for fun, but the underlying concept of preparing skills, gear and planning for the refugee scenarios is there in my own mind. The difference in needs between weekend trips, thru hiking and the realities of being a refugee / homeless is a relevant enough topic to discuss here without the snark about maladjusted daydreaming.
>>2880309You have been explained the word's etymology. I have no interest in arguing with you. You are wrong.
>>2880332Get help.
>>2880330>what gear, advice and behaviours of thru hikers translate well into a situation where I'd have to take my family to Spain on foot.Why are you traveling by foot? Even if you assume all roads will be completely blocked (unlikely imo, especially if you have a car capable of going a little off road), a motorbike, bicycle or e-bike with a trailer would allow to to travel much faster than on foot, as well as carrying a greater load.>Water purification tablets for months of use packed from day 1? Or just bring a sawyer purifier and hope for the best?Water filters don't protect against viruses. That's usually fine for camping, viruses are rarely a threat anywhere but the most crowded national parks, but likely to be a major problem in a crisis.>>2880338Your ESL ass doesn't get to lecture anyone else on the meaning of English words and asserting you're correct doesn't make it so.
>>2880361>Why travel on footI considered this... Whatever vehicle is available should be used, but vehicles and the necessary infrastructure are more tennuous in a crisis situation than just going on foot. If I prepare for the use of a car, and it breaks down or there is no gas available I'm stuck either not moving or having to move with bad/heavy/missing gear options. So despite this, I am thinking that going on foot should be prepared for in any case.>Water filters dont protect against virussesThats the big one. Fuel for fire would be scarce and probably expensive. A metric fuckton of aquatabs luckily dont cost a lot and are lightweight. Too bad about the taste though.
>>2880204there's nothing to learn from them, they just live in pisspoor conditions you can't adapt towhat you want for the situation you seem to expect is an homestead, a remote countryside house where you can be self reliant on as much thing as possibleand you're late because you needed to plant trees 20year ago
>>2880394Well I'm not buying a homestead in Spain or Argentina on the need to respond to Russian aggression. And a bug-in homestead within drone distance from the front lines isn't exactly my ideal scenario either.The thing I'm interested in is how to gear up to get a family of three across a continent effectively, and then at least be sheltered from the elements and moderately fed and hydrated for a while once we get there.
>>2880470who told you to leave your country? there's certainly a remote valley no one cares about far enough from places of interest
>>2880473>Remote valleyNot only do we not have a remote valley. We effectively have no valleys at all. Also "remote" doesn't carry the same meaning in western Europe as it does in the US. My country specifically is one of the most densely populated in the world. Also, again the whole premise is not to sit and wait for a shahed drone to pick my bedroom to go nap time.
>>2880478you're being schizo or shitposting
>>2880479What is schizo about this?
