Abortion is usually murder because it usually happens after the child is old enough that there’s a significant chance they have a significant amount of consciousness. It is still legal by pill for the mother in all 50 states and Poland
>>536424913It should be illegal and the mother should be jailed if the fetus was old enough to have a significant chance at being conscious (probably around 8 weeks so most abortions) and the mother was not raped (actual rape). It’s still immoral in rape cases thoExceptions for extremely rare cases in which the mother will probably die without the abortion are okayIt’s really the pro life movement faultOnly abortion abolishinists are actually willing to call for women to be imprisonedPro life lawmakers killAbortion abolishinist bills because feminist pro life groups tell them tohttps://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zkH3vrevU9oAbortion pills which can be easily legally quickly and cheaply or in some cases freely obtained and ordered online work to to 14 weeks legal in all fifty statesThe earliest case for which I believe the precautionary principle should hold was around 43-45 days. Which comes out to be 6.1-6.4 weeks.The fetal brain begins to develop around 3-5 weeks gestation. So I am okay with abortions prior to that timeframe.It's hard to say what the levels of sentience equate to at each week. But I wouldn't not assume this is a miniscule amount of sentience. Many EEG brain patterns observed in fetal brains as early as 6.1-6.4 weeks ( high voltageslow waves with superimposed fast activity) are comparable to mature birds, mature frogs, mature rabbits and the mature marmot. We can even observe sleep spindles in the fetal brain this early.Does this prove the same degree of sentience? No. Does this give us reason to take the precautionary principle with respect to this degree of sentience? Yes
it's either that or forcing that thing to experience 50 years of slavery I dunno man
>>536424978>>536425007what do you mean? Physics means food requires work in the entire animal kingdom but they can work towards a technologically advanced post scarcity society
>>536424913If they’re conscious, why don’t they get out of their mom‘s vagina?
>>536425100Theres adult humans who are very conscious and intelligent while also being paralyzed from the neck down
>>536425099>equating work with wageslaving for 50 years in a sociopath's systemyou've been brainwashed so much you're using the propaganda in an appeal to nature argument
>>536424913(1) abortion is usually murder because ending a human life needs to be justified somehow to not count as murder (self defense, warfare, punishment, ...)(2) however, abortion of defective foetuses is a natural part of life, nature aborts many defects and doesnt abort others, and maybe humans could be more strict with quality control(3) the real reason to oppose abortion is to control womens sexuality, since they want to murder in order to be whores. the first person harmed by the crime of abortion is the man whose baby was murdered, and it is up to him to make an issue of it
this abortion topic getting astro turfed for mid terms or something? ya'll are fucking pathetic
>>536425198If I’m ever like that, please abort me
>>536425265>(1) abortion is usually murder because ending a human life needs to be justified somehow to not count as murder (self defense, warfare, punishment, ...)ok, then pretend some sociopath has declared war on your bitch's embryo or fetus >>536425299why don't these pearl clutching homos volunteer at the local orphanage instead of seething on the internet about pussy and abortion?
Almost all abortions happen after 7 weeks and this baby was probably conscious >>536424978
>>536425388hot button topic to try and increase voter participation, political theater
This person was killed at 12 weeks old and abortion pills which are legal for the mother in all fifty states and Poland work up to 12 weeks into pregnancy.
>>536424913Counterpoint, niggers and spics do it the most so it's okay.
>>536425462No one is paying me I am completely independent not everything is a conspiracy
>>536425612the people who get paid are a minority and its their job to influence or manipulate others to speak about it
>>536425583They are made in God’s image
>>536425683Oh in that case fuck that spicnigger
>>536425659Sounds non falsifiable
Enjoy your new friends
>>536425930>IndiaHIGHER
Conservatives will throw a fit anout abortion but suddenly stop giving a shit once the kid comes out.
>>536424913fuck them kidsit should be legal to kill kids up to 5 years oldthe moment you find out they are retarded or have some fucked up disease that will burden the parents it should be legal to kill them
>>536425930okayAs those countries become wealthier more developed and more technologically advanced and feminist the populations will decrease and so will the abortion rate I already donate to effective altruist charities like against malaria foundation that save an extra African child’s life for every 5000 dollars I donate. Cope and seethe
>>536426207I donate to contraception charities it costs 70$ to do a abortion fuck you for wanting more ferals in the world
>>536425930No Indian has stolen my foreskin https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=W2PKdDOjooA
It's worse than murder. The fetus is where it's safe and warm and gets horribly ripped out because hoes want to have the final say
>>536426381
>>536426384
liberals are unironically the REAL sexists on this issue
MY BODY MY CHOICE
>>536426725Creampies too good to use literally dozens of contraceptive options so you end up pregnant?Sound like chronic dumb bitch syndrome
>>536426725No. You are still a mother after an abortion you are the mother of a dead child.You are violating the bodily autonomy of the pre born child because you willfully chose to force them into a state of dependency on you Explained here https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SembwMzMePQ
>>536426725TITS or GTFO
>>536426725My property my pejorative
>>536424978>if the fetus was old enough to have a significant chance at being conscious (probably around 8 weeks so most abortions)This is a straight up lie. There is absolutely and literally nothing to support this wild claim. Yes, at some point, the fetus likely has something close to consciousness and as such can suffer. At that point, killing it becomes morally wrong. That point isn't at eight fucking weeks, though. It's closer to seven or eight MONTHS. Just so you know, the vast majority of abortions even where they're more or less unrestricted occur in the first trimester. Less than a percent occur in the third trimester.
>>536427075go debate Dr. Avi on it https://m.youtube.com/@AviMD disco im linktre in description Around week 7 of gestation, the very first neural synapses (the microscopic gaps that allow neurons to communicate via neurotransmitters) begin forming in the spinal cord and lower brain structures.Histological studies demonstrate that the first sensory receptors (nociceptors, which respond to damaging stimuli) begin to appear in the perioral area (around the mouth) at approximately 7 weeks. By 7.5 to 8 weeks, ultrasound observations show embryos reflexively moving away from tactile stimuli for example, if the lips are touched, the head will flex away from the stimulus. Avi uses it as the biological baseline for when the body first successfully registers and reacts to its environment.He frequently relies on the work of neuroscientists like Björn Merker and Jaak Panksepp. These researchers argue that the highly evolved cerebral cortex is not strictly necessary for primary affective consciousness (the basic, raw ability to feel pain, pleasure, or fear). Instead, they propose that rudimentary sentience originates in older, deeper subcortical structures, such as the brainstem and the thalamus.Because these lower-brain structures develop much earlier in gestation than the cerebral cortex, Avi argues we must entertain the possibility that a basic, dim level of sentience could "switch on" long before the third trimester. If the brainstem is sufficient for suffering, then waiting for the cortex to form is a flawed metric.Borkowski & Bernstine (1955) "Electroencephalography of the Fetus," Neurology, 5:362.
>>536427250Okamoto & Kirikae (1951) "Electroencephalographic Studies on Brain of Foetus, of Children of Premature Birth and New-Born…" Folia Psychiatrica et Neurologica Japonica, Vol. 5, No. 2.Derbyshire & Bockmann (2020) "Reconsidering Fetal Pain," Journal of Medical Ethics, 46:3–6. https://doi.org/10.1136/medethics-2019-105701Okamoto & Kirikae (1951) and Borkowski & Bernstine (1955) demonstrated detectable electrical brain activity as early as 43-45 days (about 6-7 weeks) gestational age, with Okamoto recording activity from fetuses as young as 3 fetal months (12 weeks).Derbyshire & Bockmann (2020) argue that more recent neuroscience undermines the strict cortex-is-necessary view. They point to evidence that thalamic projections into the subplate (a transient developmental structure) emerge around 12 weeks and may support a primitive, immediate, unreflective form of pain experience not equivalent to adult pain but potentially morally significant. They no longer view fetal pain in the 12-24 week window as impossible.
>but most experts disagree Are most of those experts pro choice meat eating non intactivists?
>>536425388>why don't these pearl clutching homos volunteer at the local orphanage instead of seething on the internet about pussy and abortion?abortion is the rights version of 1 like = 1 saved african child.they only care about dead kids when they are still in the womb because it requires no effort on their part.
We should put unwanted, recently born babies in canons and fire them into the ocean just for fun.
>>536424913This is true. I aborted my baby after i found out it was a Jew. It came out with a fully circumcised penis and a long nose. I said "nope" and shoved it back in and got an abortion.
>>536427413>killing babies is ok because you don't meet my moral standard of caring for babies i'd just murderactual lol also abort yourself faggot.
these are all pretty early. they murder totally viable babies that would survive out of the womb
>>536427250Nociception is not the subjective experience of pain. This is why the word is "nociception" instead of "pain." Nociception is an electrochemical system. It is not determinative of consciousness. If it is, then people whose nociceptive systems are broken, like people with leprosy, aren't conscious. Lepers are very obviously conscious, so discarding any proposed evidentiary weight attached to nociception is the only rational response. As far as synapses go... cows have synapses, too. Are you, by any chance, a vegan?
Does anyone have that video out of China where a bunch of fetuses have been gutted and are possibly being prepared for use as food?
>>536425683
>>536427745I am vegan and noiception is evidence of consciousness and people with leprosy still feel pain
>>536427745It’s possible to be conscious and also unable to feel pain
>>536427745Saying if nociception determines consciousness then people with leprosy aren't conscious is a logical fallacy called denying the antecedentNo serious cognitive scientist or philosopher argues that the peripheral nociceptive system creates or determines overall consciousness as it’s generated by central brain structures like the brainstem and cerebral cortex
>>536429838>"no true Scotsman" fallacy
