It's now irrelevant Nothing ever happens
>>536796207
It definitely helped Singapore became a more important global hub due to the fact that we are a stable country where you can trust investing that all funds are secure and protected by a strong rule of law.
>>536796507>jeets using memeflag while accusing others of using VPNI've heard that the heat wave killed lots of you, I'm cheering for Mother Nature.
OP is a filthy HK refugee or sexpat.Either way someone I would heem in RL and break their bones.
>>536797186That would be illegal, dumbass >Sexpat in TaiwanGerman education everybody
>>536797229>That would be illegalLol, you are one dumbfuck.I have noticed that Singapoo flag posts have always been absolute garbage, no matter what.
>>536797743>I have noticed that Singapoo flag posts have always been absolute garbage, no matter what.They are filled with jeets
>>536796207Broken bot?
>>536797833Singapore is 7% Indian. And I wouldn't be talking with that flag. Is there anything more pathetic than Russians dying over nameless villages in Ukraine in the year two thousand and twenty six. I'm not Indian but if you talk shit about any of Singapore's races you will get a reaction. In Singapore, unlike Malaysia, we don't allow any one race to be seen as supreme, and we don't denigrate races. In Russia, Russians will become the minority in the next 100 years yet you cry about Russian superiority. In a state supposedly made for Russians you send your own men to die in a useless war. Pathetic. The world is laughing at you and your future is gone. Russians are descending on Europe, Asia, and Latin America because they knew Russia is a dead (and let's be honest, very poor) country. If you attack Chinese, Malay, or Indians you're going to have to face some of your own medicine.
>>536798049>Singapore is 7% Indian.Accept my condolences, Sankdeep
>>536797186>theirYou're new here, aren't you?
>>536798184>Indians badCome to Little India and it's cleaner than any russian city. I've unfortunately had to go to Russia 3 times. Russians live in a very dirty manner. Even in Moscow I would wander when I had free time and it's filthy when you get outside the tourist areas. Not to mention how generally dirty Samara, Voronezh, Yekaterinburg were.Granted this was all before the war so I imagine Russian society has fixed itself in that time...
>>536798361>Indians badYes
>OMG Little India is so dir-https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6XT1jLmyEEAgain, I'm not Indian but you are talking shit about Singaporeans. You are implying our Tamil population is somehow bad. They aren't. Learn the history of Singapore and their contributions.In Asia russians are associated with filth, disorder, arrogance, fighting, etc. You guys are not civilized enough to have a functioning nation.
>>536797122They’re not the brightest bunch.
Shipping from Hong Kong is such a pain. I buy a lot of swords from a distributor based there and everything has been super slow the past few years.
>>536798410That's just ignorance.
>>536798602Its just the smell
>>536798647Come to Singapore and smell, there's no bad smells. Go anywhere here.
>>536798691I've been to India and California, that was enough to get the picture
>>536798049Singapore would've been a great place to live if it's only composed of Han Chinese.
>>536798852Any place would be better if it was composed of Han Chinese accept for a few Chinese regions
>>536798852Wouldn't be wiser to move your country to somewhere else? Is not like you guys have out-of-the-box tricks to survive the future, but then again, china was suppose to invade taiwan 2 weeks ago and it has being years since the 2 weeks had pass.Just buy your land-size in the america's somewhere and move there, done.
>>536798835India and California aren't Singapore. That's like saying>I went to CHina and it was dirty so China town Singapore must be dirty >>536798852Singapore has three main races. Chinese we are like 75%, Malay are 15%, Indian 7%, others are the rest. In Singapore we are SIngaporean it's not a racist country. Everybody gets along and regardless of cultural stereotypes you may have of CHina, India, malaysia we are clean, orderly etc
>>536796207well, a bunch of people fled in 1997.everyone knew what was going to happen, but they decided to pretend it won't happen and then it happened and they started crying about it
>>536799100China isn't dirty, its amazing
>>536799098China isn't going to invade Taiwan. Far too risky because contrary to internet belief Taiwan's porcupine defense and the spectre of American intervention makes it so China would rather try dialogue with KMT party than invade. China is smart knowing the disruptions in the global economy such an invasion would cause and how catastrophic it would be for them if they failed
>>536799163>China isn't dirtySo you just went to tourist zones? Why do you even travel if you just go to Instagram hotspots. The dirty local areas are the best parts. Are you a woman influencer?
>>536799254I lived in China and go there like 2-3 times a year.
>>536799098>Instead of being a ZOG slave state, I'll just move to a ZOG slave stateYeah, figured.
>>536799254Probably moving in and out of Heilongjiang due to geographical locationsI don't see how is it possible to get dirty when people are freezing and always stay indoors.
>>536799347I guess for Russians anything that isn't a hovel is really clean. China is really not close to as clean as Singapore outside it's touristic zones. It's sort of known for that and part of the charm.
>>536798361Do you know that jeet migrants permanently ruined the country of Fiji?
>>536799467>hovelSummarizes your country, fecal beast
>>536799163>China isn't dirtyexactly, chinese roads are good enough to eat off.
>>536799636That didn't happen. Fijians were pissed Indians were earning more than them and chimped out. No different than what the Burmese did to the Chinese post-independence or Ugandans to Indians.Indians didn't ruin Fiji. Fiji would not be some shining success without Indians lol it would be another Tonga or Samoa.>>536799638>Singapore a hovelLOL no
>>536799914do you not see your own hypocrisy you dumb monkey? you talk about your shithole like its some wonderful place free of "evil" racism then you shit on a russian relentlessly because you claim his people are dirty. heres what i know, russia produced a lot more art/inventions/philosophy than your irrelevant shithole.>That didn't happen. Fijians were pissed Indians were earning more than them and chimped out. No different than what the Burmese did to the Chinese post-independence or Ugandans to IndiansMAN ITS ALMOST AS IF ITS ANNOYING WHEN YOUR POPULATION GETS REPLACED FOR THE SAKE OF CAPITALISM. ignorant fucker.
>>536799914Fiji have two things to export One is water, which isn't jeet.Second is tourism, and they'll pick Hawaii/Okinawa anytime over Fiji It's still a poor third world state and jeets only exacerbates the poverty
>>536800245okinawa, hawaii, tahiti are all part of big rich countriesSamoa, Tuvalu, palau, etc. aren't. Fiji punches above its weight BECAUSE of Indians. The seething over Indo-Fijians is because Fijians are jealous like Burmese were of Chinese
>>536801312what a nightmare, imagine living next to indians for so long that you become desensitised to their behavior. i didnt realise singapore was so terrible, im truly sorry.
>>536801723Little India is cleaner than any British city. Imagine talking shit when you live in the filthy UK lol
>>536800171>do you not see your own hypocrisy you dumb monkey?>>536802057
>>536802774The problem is that the Russian attacked my nation so I came at him in self-defense.>Burmese replace Chinese for muh capitalismNo, they did that because they hated us for being successful and look at their country now. If you're not mature enough to live in a multi-ethnic society it's not my problem. We are rich lol
>>536800171>Russia produced a lot more art/inventions/philosophyRussia had a golden age in the 1800s besides that their art is all shit or cathedrals built to impress peasants because most Russians are peasant minded people. Russians have never been civilized, they've had a ruling class that was colonized by French mindsets and made some pretty art in the 1800s. Russian philosophy is gay and stupid. Dostoyevsky is a shitty writer and is mogged by Japanese melancholy writers of the same era. I don't hate Russians but it's time to give back to people what they give to you. I'm done with people talking shit about Singaporeans. If you want to dish it out, expect it in return. And typically it's going to hurt because unlike what you say about Singapore, what I say about Russia or the UK is the truth. Russia is 71% Russian and declining fast HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA and I'm sure the war is helping with that lol
>>536803061>>536803061>If you're not mature enough to live in a multi-ethnic society it's not my problemawesome man i totally agree and so does everyone else in your example. in fact, it seems a lot of europeans are currently pissed. i guess we are just less intelligent than singaporeans. i dont want these shitskins to be my problem either. you can have all your material wealth and golden chains. >>536803309>I'm done with people talking shit about Singaporeans. If you want to dish it out, expect it in return. And typically it's going to hurt because unlike what you say about Singapore, what I say about Russia or the UK is the truth. your country is an irrelevant shithole that has produced nothing noteworthy. no art, no technology, no philosophy. russia has. uk has. sorry seanigger, its the truth
>>536803490He is just asshurt his country never produced a single piece of art and is only known for being a multicultural transit hub. Shitting on Dostoevskiy and UK is a hilarious hill to die on.
>>536803800the fact he constantly harps on about wealth is very jeet of him, i suspect he isnt actually han chinese.
>>536803309Tell me one novelist of your country that is more influential than Vladimir Nabokov
>>536803902He didn't say he is Chinese. Just that he isn't a jeet. Could be Malaysian or some other shit. I have never met a Han Chinese I wouldn't like, so he probably isn't either.
>>536803989Hey, fill this list:Link: https://tiermaker.com/create/republic-of-china-presidents-2025--tier-list-16564758
>>536803490>Your country that existed 60 years and went from a poor backwater to the most succesful nation on earth sucks>meanwhile UK is dying because you can't run a country without colony slavesGood night UK Singapore may be young but we will outlast you :) sweet dreams >>536803800>OMG this Kramskoi made art back then so it's okay my country is a totally uncivilized backwater sending young men to die for no reason and exposing our military as a fraud KEK>>536803902>Chinese people don't harp on wealthAnon... I... Anyway I harp on wealth because it's a great success story. When we got independence we were as poor as the Congo and look at us now. And then look at you and even worse... look at Russia. It's over. You guys who terrorized Asia are losing. And Asians are taking over. Be they Chechens in Moscow or Punjabis in London you can seethe all you want but your civilization always was dependent and if you can't extract wealth you'll bring the labour to your metropoles and complain about it. Now, the UK will still exist but I suspect you won't like such a society. And I suspect our Russian friend won't like a Russia that's less than 50% Russian (coming very very soon!) but that's okay. people like you lot are going to die out anyway and the next generation will be better off. Singapore proved a multi-ethnic society can prosper.
>>536804104you said youve been to china multiple times, is the animal abuse overblown or genuinely an issue? i respect the chinese greatly but i find the rumors very disturbing. it seems more normal there.
>>536803989None, but he was Russian-American. Why are you claiming him for Russia lol
>>5367962072020 the HongFree the Kong
>>536804264>Hey did you stumble upon any Animal abuse rings in your expat quarters?Obviously not lol that's like asking a tourist from Paris if they stumbled upon any terrorist cells. What's the point of even asking this?Or do you just mean wet and pet markets which yes are sadly not the best for animal welfare and quite public
>>536804117Here you go
>>536804242>Good night UKim lithuanian-american, good luck finding something to be racist about. if it makes you feel any better, my home country is also irrelevant ;^)>And then look at you and even worse... look at Russia. It's over. You guys who terrorized Asia are losingalright but why do we have to pay for the terror of aristocrats and elites? i see the poverty in uk, in the us. the wealth that was stolen from you guys wasnt for us, it was for our rich (we hate them too, did you know?).our elite exploited our ancestors, then us, now you. im not sorry. heil hitler.
>>536804525You at least have Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth as part of the ancestrySingaporean have none mostly
>>536804264>you said youve been to china multiple times, is the animal abuse overblown or genuinely an issue?I personally have never seen it. Worst I have seen were cats in cages, but they seemed to be taken good care of and very unlikely meant for eating. That was in one of the major southern cities too, so I very much doubt that was the case. I suppose things like that may happen in rural areas, but I have little experience outside Tier 1-3 cities.When it comes to other stereotypes - some of them are true, but blown out of proportions, at least when it comes to non-rural areas. I would not call Chhinese loud, but they can behave in ways that would be inappropriate in Europe. Like making some loud burping sounds or walking wih their bellies out when its really hot. I got used to everything but smoking in restaurants, that is very uncomfirtable. Also never quite felt that the bad driving stereotype is true - in Beijing they drive perfectly. In the rest of the country its less orderly, but also quite good.
>>536804525>i'm lithuanian-AmericanYou live in America which is far removed from geo-politics. American citizens are worthless when it comes to geo-politics since it's a theatre show for you. Lithuania is a beautiful country. The Baltics aren't irrelevant, they're powerful in their pride and the culture is awesome. They may have few famous world-renowned artists but being in the baltics is a form of heaven. I've been in an Europe trip did a whole road trip. A little nation like Lithuania has so much more civilization than Russia does.>alright but why do we have to pay for the terror of aristocrats and elitesTo be honest I'm not really all that into post-colonial politics but if Europeans play the race card I don't mind doing the same. But I'll play the race card on Africans or Latinos or anybody I need to if they pull it out first.
>>536804785>You at least have Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealthyou remembered? it was so long ago...
>>536804785Singapore is a totally new country what do you expect? We were a fishing village until the British decided to make a port here and then Chinese Peranakan showed up and english brought Indians. We are 60 years old as a nation. We are YOUNG.
>>536804847>You live in America which is far removed from geo-politics. i lived in usa, i am very attune with world affairs and cultures. >American citizens are worthless when it comes to geo-politics i completely agree>The Baltics aren't irrelevantcome on now
>>536804890Did you guys acually rule that whole thing? I am not quite good at Commonwealth's history, but remember that Lithuanians were the ones that managed it mostly.Out of all the Baltic states, I have only been to Latvia, unfortunately. Riga was very nice though, hope its still the same today.
>>536805013The Baltics aren't irrelevant that's why Russia is always crying about them because they are strategic land they want. And Baltic culture is beautiful, it just is. When I went to Russian parts of Baltics I was like "Oh shit I'm back in hell" (I've had to go to Russia 3 times) If the world loses the Baltics it will be mourned, those who have been there will weep knowing that is gone. If the world lost Russia people would cheer because Russians fleeing their conscription law have been shitting up Asia and Argentina and Brazil and Dubai etc.
>>536805156Latvia is what Russia could be if your rulers cared about you and your people cared to have rulers who care about you... But now I miss Riga... I was there around Christmas and was having so much mulled wine it was so fun and the people there are so nice
>>536805156i try not to think about Greater Lithuania since it hurts a lot but from what i understand the territory was extremely decentralised, whoever did rule at the time didnt have as much control over the pop compared to west europe.>>536805231im pretty sure lithuanians will die out soon, all the young are fleeing that graveyard. its pretty but its dead. russia will likely consume it soon.
>>536796207I bought one of those t shirts. Threw it away when I met a qt chink girl. Nothing ever happened.
>>536805349I need to study that period a bit. Sounds quite interesting. Also almost went to Talinn once, but it did not come to be. You guys got quite a nice region there, Poland is a pretty good place too.
>>536805349>russia will likely consume it soon.They can't even consume the Donbas.... https://power.lowyinstitute.org/data/military-capability/Singapore is ranked 9 despite our small population. We have more tanks than the Uk for instance.
>>536805349>russia will likely consume it soonbut the point is, its not russians. its their government. i want world peace (minus israel). european brotherhood, we shouldnt fuck with everyone else. i advocate for an inward, isolationist european federation.
>>536805156>>536805349The state of Baltics could be summarized by this>inb4 muh dickI'm not in support of it, quite the opposite, surprisingly Lithuania hasn't ditched their moral completely.
>>536805610>We Aren't you American?But yes, European federalism is a great idea in my view. But isolationism is a fake ideology. Any true isolationist country is shit because they become poor: Eritrea for instance. In the internet isolationist just = "don't do things in foreign affairs I disagree with" in a globalized world isolationism is not an option if you want a prosperous society
>>536805503And they are all Chinese.You can thank the Han for protecting your sorry state.
>>536805610Idk, who knows what our government has in mind, but I am hoping they aren't crazy enough to get into a direct confrontation with NATO. Can't say for sure since I never believed the ukraine thing could happen either, yet here we are. Still hopefully they have at least some bumpers to stop them. The media rhetoric is a bit disturbing sometimes.
>>536805643When I was in Russia there were touts for erotic spas harassing me as I walked down the street lol some touts were Indian and Turkish too not even kidding
>>536805503>We have more tanks than the UkVery low bar
>>536805783Forgot Picrel
>>536805844But consider we have less people than GTA. >>536805794Wow I would elect you president of Russia you have a brain and foresight for your country to do the right thing for future generations and prosperity
>>536805643Kind of surprised about Turkey. But at least they managed to find a common ground with Greece finally.
>>536805783You say that like Chinese community isn't an important part of Singapore. Of course it is! Here Chinese culture is deeply valued and celebrated
>>536805794i would rather die than ever be conscripted to fight a brother war. the world can fall apart and i wouldnt shoot you brother.>>536805743born lithuanian, moved to usa early, moved to uk later. i hate england, its cold and expensive. they created some really cool subcultures but man is it a boring, desolate place now. devoid of any art or beauty.
Heard we lost a lot of really good anons in that one.
>>536798558>I buy a lot of swords
>>536806022Užupis has the soul of the youth. I loved that place, that little area has many great artists that will never be known. Art and soul is not just a list in some historians book. If you go someplace and feel the soul that matters more than "Here's 10 famous people"
>>536796207I was in HK for work when the 2014 Umbrella Movement kicked off. I thought a peaceful civil movement would be cool since HK had always been defined by its free wheeling creative vibrancy. When it came back in 2019 it was obviously different. Pallets of bricks were mysteriously pre-delivered to riot locations. Idiots were waving British and American flags, calling for return to colonisation. Ukrainian skinheads were posting Instagram pics at the riots. It was obviously a colour revolution.If you are a Taiwanese you should be aware that these things are not random. Big powers are controlling things behind the scene.
>>536805902lol, I have actually met one of these dudes once>>536806022I would never want a war with you either. Or a war with anyone for that matter. Shame things are turning out the way they are, but let us hope it will at least not get worse.
>>536806169have you met sub saharan africans before?
>>536799100>In Singapore we are SIngaporean it's not a racist country. Everybody gets alongCringe. Fuck off
>>536806169>Big powers are controlling things behind the scene.We're literally secular Jerusalem Of course we attract interestshttps://www.ait.org.tw/
>>536806302meant for you: >>536806158
>>536806169>Omg it was the Ukrainians working for NATO Neo-nazis British people need to leave holy shit I'm sick of your FB boomer rambles. Calling it a riot should be enough to paint the accurate picture why are you adding all this other bullshit. If it's a colour revolution just provide the evidence. >>536806320When's the last time we had race riots? Go ahead and answer. Singapore is the model of a multi-ethnic society.
>>536805794They're going to have to strike NATO countries with conventional weapons to reestablish the deterrence Putin has let them trample all over, but it will probably be in an irrelevant shithole like the Baltics or Poland. You'll blow something military up, the Europoors will screech about muh article 5, and the US will say that it's not their problem. That will probably be the end of it.
>>536806302In real life? Not until I was 30 when I started travelling out of Asia.
>>536806387Yes I met some but they are super rare here but some come for business or as tourists but it's really rare. I've seen a lot traveling elsewhere or going elsewhere for work
>>536805958You'd be surprised to know that the Ottoman Empire were one of the first countries to legalize homosexuality
>>536796207>Uyghurs chimped outMillions to the camps, 1000+ mosques torn down>HG niggers chimped outUghhh guess we’ll use plastic bullets n sheeit
>>536806493Okay you aren't British I apologize. But I've met many (and Australians) who talk about shit like that non-stop, even at work functions.
>>536806518I acually knew that, bu thought they put that stuff behind them (pun not intended). I just thought Erdogan would be playing his semi-religious semi-trad game wih Turkey now when he realizd he isn't getting into the EU. I know its not serious, but some gestures like banning prostitution could appeal to rural religious population, I suppose.
>>536799914The Fijians were pissed off pajeets are becoming the majority and dominate politics. The same reason Lee Kuan Yew kept CIMO ratios the same since the 1970s
>CHINA IS ASSHOLEwonder if he's still alive
Goodnight everybody I need to sleep. I'm going to wake up for a jog in Sungei Buloh with my gf in literally an hour.
>>536806513>>536806493>but they are super rare here but some come for business or as tourists but it's really rarethose are the intelligent ones, there are plenty just like with other races. but their bad ones are different from our bad ones, just be careful and trust your instincts. we didnt get this way for no reason.
>>536806342It's always darkest before dawn. Hang in there.
>>536806724guys he got off, what a dork signing off on 4chan lmao
>>536796207>these protests are an existential threat to the CCP>we should give these protestors the Tiananmen treatment>but they all have phones and internet access hmmmthats why they released covideveryone wants to blame america, but the chinamen are more ruthless and amoral and would absolutely do something like that
>>536806695It's a well known fact that Hongkies are the biggest assholes in the region. Arrogant, loud, rude. When their economy got overtaken by mainlanders in the 2000s their plastic universe fell apart.
>>536806953There's some great hoo-ha recently about internet racism here. He's a glowie sent here for damage control.
>>536806604Oftentimes they act more like BLM protesters than normal people Same in mainland and in TaiwanFaggot parades bloomed after a death of a bullied child That child isn't even a faggotAnd he isn't bullied to death, he died of illnesses, the only faggy things he's associated with is "he's a bit effeminate"
>>536806850We as Taiwanese failed our Han settlers from the 17th century They were brave and willingly sailed over the strait that killed lots of people Wonder how they'd feel knowing that rainbow flags are flying everywhere now
>>536807693>Wonder how they'd feel knowing that rainbow flags are flying everywhere nowThat its a temporal mishap. Chinese better than anyone should know that bad times are never permanent in the Middle Kingdom.
>>536807492is his account of singapore right? he said its a multicultural success story. the chinese, malay and indians get along? i dont know what sea culture is like.
>>536807921he's right broadly. singapore is a police state where english is the national language, cultural assimilation is more or less enforced, ruthless individualism and it's secularist so no muslim bullshitthis should be the model for all third world countries
>>536807021You ready to hear what's Asia's take on what happened in the last 10 years?US has been trying to destabilise China since 2016 so that capital will flow out of Asia and back into Wall Street.In 2016 there were serious face offs in the South China Sea. But both Chinese and US navies backed off.Then 2019 the HK protests happened. The HK police managed to control it reasonably well with zero deaths.In 2020 bioweapons Covid was released in Wuhan. Many are still unaware how deadly the initial wave of covid was. Many died in the first weeks. Then it spread worldwide.After the 2 year lockdown, Putin started the SMO. Capital flowed out of Europe back to Wall Street.
>>536808566>Many are still unaware how deadlyim pretty sure more people died from stress of losing their jobs/homes. it wasnt deadly. i had it 3 times and have bad lungs, its a bad cold.
>>536808441>english is the national languageBahasa malayu is our national language. English is the lingua franca.And yeah. Singapore is authoritarian by western standards and I love living in a civilised society.
>>536808728I've heard the initial covid fatality rate was higher than SARS (allegedly also a man-made bioweapon). Some grandma dancing groups were cut by half. The virus lost some lethality when it spread globally.
>>536796207>HK about to impose law even worse than the Extradition Law that sparked 2019 protestsWhy the fuck aren't Hongkongers protesting this? How is less relevant but just do it. HK prided itself on having the cleverest protest methods, you need to reinvent that energy and bring it into 2026.End of the day it's 7.5 million (give or take a million mainlanders who are on Beijing's side) versus 100.000 pro-CCP apparatchiks and "police".These CCP shitheads killed thousands of Hongkongers in and after 2019-2020 in literal extrajudicial executions ("made suicides") how in the actual fuck are people putting up with this shitty regime?I realize it takes a lot of guts to stand up to butchers but it's only going to get worse if you don't fight vs. if you do.
>>536809386it could be the case, i only really trust what i see with my own eyes these days. so much lying. i dont trust official stats on anything. too much incentive for them to lie.
>>536809712Over 20% of Hong Kong residents participated in the protest Throughout history, just 10% of the population is enough to create mass chaos I doubt if 20% are willing to participate if China rules like North Korea
>>536809712>Extradition Law that sparked 2019 protests It was a proposed law to extradite a HongKong guy who killed his girlfriend in Taiwan back to Taiwan for investigation. What's unreasonable about that?>Why the fuck aren't Hongkongers protesting this? How is less relevant but just do it. HK prided itself on having the cleverest protest methods, you need to reinvent that energy and bring it into 2026. Cool. Why don't you start protesting in Netherlands against your pedo lovin government?
zero mention of jews in this thread. Why?
>>536810880Here you go
>>536799100that's only for the 4 million citizens nd perm. residents.
>>536810306More than 1/4 even, 26% counting the 2 million and 1 protest march of June 16 2019.>>536810440>why don't you whataboutism thisReaching for epstein ragebait bs whataboutism to throw it at the wall, cool story bro>why would anyone have a problem with being disappeared into Chinese black jails without trial or due processWhy are you living in Singapore instead of mainland China if you love it so much? You CCP shills are insufferable, I hope S'poreans get tired of your shit before long and start mass expelling before you manage to grow a mass that would threaten SG's independence.Or is the CCP using SG VPNs on purpose because it got upset at Project Starlight? :^)