Stoicism might be the best religion/philosophy, because the STUDY of logic and the Trivium are a major part of it, it's literally one of three pillars.I fucking hate this site. I made a thread yesterday on this but not a single fucking reply was on-topic. Instead the retards here just saw "stoicism" and then spouted their knee-jerk thoughts on that. And a few just spouted their knee-jerk opinion that logic is innate. The fucking topic was and is that the STUDY of logic/the Trivium is a major part of Stoicism, and that they don't think logic is innate, unlike the brainwashed retards that make up 99% of this board. Therefore Stoicism fucking bodybags all you retards.Both Stoicism and Freemasonry value the study of logic/the Trivium highly. In Freemasonry the metaphor is that a person is a rough ashlar in the quarry and through work is refined to a perfect ashlar which is fitted into Solomon's temple. You are born with a tiny seed of reason, but it is utterly incomplete without work. It's not an IQ thing. It's taught in the second degree of Freemasonry that the threshold between childhood and adulthood is to begin the work on refining your mind by studying the Trivium. The stone straight out of the quarry is not the finished Solomon's temple. Epictetus mocked people for thinking their reasoning skill was already complete without work, like the brainwashed retards that make up 99% of this board.Unlike brainwashed retards today, Stoics knew that logic is very important and that it's not something you're born with but something you must study. They also believed that grammar is very important. The one philosophy to btfo all /pol/tards once and for all. Fucking bodybagged. Eat shit, forever. Sincerely yours.
>>536848200>masonry>>536847331>>536847366>>536847388>>536847414>>536847436>>536847452
Nah. The push for stoicism is a fail marketing attempt to lower the probability of killing polity, bankers, public employed and public subsidized while the 65 year old Keynesian marxist voodoo ponzinomy is choking on its failuresKill them all
>>536848279>>536848372and here we go again, fucking lemmings
>>536848200How come you didn’t use the word Pantheism?
STHORICS bump
Stoicism is the worst philosophy, at this time you need anything else. Women want stoicism because to them you are a cat basically
>>536848200>You are born with a tiny seed of reason>It's not IQYou are born with a set potential which you must then polish and actualize.I.E.: someone born with a 120 IQ potential won't ever reach 130. In fact, they will most likely never reach 120 either as it would require them to perfect their intellect.Also, keep making these threads. Maybe one day we'll be able to have reasonable discussions here.
>>536848200Sheesh. Is 4chan/pol really the place for a discussion of greek philosophy?80% of this sites users were JIDF until Iran blew them all up and now it's mostly Indians who came here because they are mad at white people for noticing their behavior.Of the few people that leaves, a lot of them are paid shill propagandists or some creepy psychologist doing a study or some spook doing a psyop. So lets say there are 200 people who visit 4chan/pol, there are probably only 10-15 of that 200, who will have the cognitive capacity to even discuss logic.
>>536848200Go to /his/ if you want to fling philosophical shit back and forth.
>>536849826Logic is not IQ, that's just what they brainwash you to think, so that you will refuse to study logic out of pride, like the brainwashed retards that make up 99% of this site. You don't say grammar is innate, unless you're that CIA plant Noam Chomsky or one of his brainless lackeys. Grammar and logic were deliberately divorced from each other, logic and thought were deliberately divorced from each other, and here we are now, the masses being golems who think logic is something found in silicon and copper wire, rather than millennia old wisdom for cultivating the intellect nowadays occulted by secret societies in order to enslave you.anti-logic brainwashing in popular culture:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=low6Coqrw9YLikewise, the idea that mathematical ability is innate is in fact a Western cultural bias, you have no idea how thick the matrix is.https://youtube.com/shorts/Kvw_ZXftcmA
>>536850368I've never claimed logic is IQ. In fact, I am agreeing with you on that topic.I was simply elaborating on the idea of a "seed of reason" because I wanted to clarify we aren't all equals in that regard.
>>536848200>Stoicism might be the best religion/philosophyOnly normalfags pick one.Your problem is selling this as a panacea, assuming that everyone must pick one lane and put it on their driver's license or some shit. If all you did was talk about educating topics, no one would be annoyed by what you're doing.
>>536850368I was very surprised to learn that in some curricula, coordinates on a plane can be defined using angles (like polar coordinates) and points on a single line, alongside teaching them as movements in the X and Y directions, as opposed to only teaching the latter. Only teaching one obscures a certain way of thinking, IMO. For starters: One is 3 variables(1(+1 on first i) varying when sequenced), the other is only 2 variables(1(+1 on first i) varying when sequenced). Both can serve the same the function's job.
>>536848200You are mostly right. Its the culmination of the aristocratic tradition because it demands total responsibility for self. Investing oneself into learning grammar, logic and rhetoric is an extremely costly and demanding act of self-responsibility. However this precisely is also the reason I don't believe it will never work as a mainstream religion, most people (especially in the modern context) have absolutely zero incentive to be self-responsible. And arguably, many aren't even capable of any sort of aristocratic self-responsibility at all. Women, for example, will never be stoics.Vid related>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSivDqnacok
>>536848200solomon was a demon-cavorting, nigger loving faggot jew who brought ruin like a despot does'stoicism' isn't something you subscribe to or a thing you adopt you absolute retard, it's conditionalwhat you're selling is fake and gay, i won't even get into the masonry partop is a total niggerfaggot
you either are stoic, or you're just a faggot larper like op
>>536850544Absolutely unimportant. People think that my ashlar is smoother than your ashlar and out of pride refuse to smooth their ashlar because "only an ashlar that isn't smooth to begin with needs smoothing", when in fact the greatest noblest of men acknowledge that they are rough ashlars, while the fool thinks himself a smooth ashlar. Comparing which out of two rough ashlars is less rough is foolishness. People have literally been brainwashed to think their seed of reason is much more than just a seed, and that cultivating it is a sign of weakness. This is how they keep you enslaved. So stfu about innate ability. Fucking bodybagged by Stoicism and Freemasonry.
>>536850825stfu fag
>>536851115>Absolutely unimportantFalse. You're leaning too far into blank-slatism here.IQ does not entirely pre-determine the individual outcome, yes. Nobody is born with logic, grammar or rhetoric innately, it must be taught.However IQ does correlate with a natural aptitude for learning, and in many areas defines the maximum potential attainable through education.And more importantly, IQ is not the only initial condition which exists.All ashlars begin rough and must be smoothed. But not all ashlars can be smoothed to the same degree, or into a functional form, nor will the effort required for each be the same.
>>536848200>Instead the retards here just saw "stoicism" and then spouted their knee-jerk thoughts on that.oh they spouted their thought did they. how dare they do that.>unlike the brainwashed retards that make up 99% of this board99%? sounds like low value soil. have you tried reddit?>The one philosophy to btfo all /pol/tards once and for all.This one simple trick that no true scotsman wants you to know about.>Both Stoicism and Freemasonry value the studyokay.>the metaphor is that a person is a rough ashlar in the quarry and through work is refined to a perfect ashlar which is fitted into Solomon's temple>The stone straight out of the quarry is not the finished Solomon's templewhew lad, are you a perfect ashlar, ready to decorate the jewish temple? is your shit about stoicism or are you shopping around a nu-age jewish servile religion and you thought stoicism had some ingredients that could work?fuck off jew
>>536848200Quousque idem fīlum identidem facere pergēs?
>>536852001stfu parrot, you're brainwashed into a Western cultural bias and Stoicism and Freemasonry bodybag you for good, eat shit, forever
>>536853966>Being this butthurt over simple factsWe aren't blank slates at birth.
>>536853532didn't read, fucking retard, the top layer of this pyramid, ever heard of that, fag? that's what I was saying, like for you with your shitpost which I didn't read, to the posters in that thread that layer is as alien as another galaxy, eat shit, forever
>>536853966Ah yes, an emotionally explosive ad hominem. Exactly what I'd expect to hear from a wise stoic master, rather than a calm, rational rebuttal to an argument.You are a stoic, yes?
>>536848200Catholicism absorbed Stoicism.The only true religion is the Catholic Church.
>>536854150Your career has fuckall to do with refinement of the spirit, which is what Stoicism, Freemasonry and the Trivium are about. That's what logic is, not your brainwashed utilitarian anglophone uncultured shit, corporate cocksucker. Your refinement isn't measurable in dollars. Logic isn't utility. Go back to cocksucking, rat. You're a utilitarian, not someone who is suited for the seven liberal arts, in which there is no money to be made. You measure a mind by its alignment with the rat race. You are a merchant, not a man of culture. You build a cathedral to be office space. Go back to sucking cocks.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAp8hX0U-jw
>>536854170I'm not the topic, fuck off fag, you made no fucking argument, only an assertion, and you don't even know the difference. Study logic, brainwashed retard.
>>536854473>Homme de paille>ad hominemI'm not an Angloid, but you sure love logical fallacies. Which is ironic.
>>536854580I'm not here to debate ignorant brainwashed retards like you, I don't care about what you think because you know nothing, I'm here to school you, bodybagged by Stoicism and Freemasonry, eat shit, forever.
>>536854721I have a bachelor's in philosophy.I had three logic classes + one argumentative logic class.Straight As across the board.Came here hoping to have a stimulating conversation since they've been lacking ever since I graduated.Thank you for being a disapointment.
>>536854880>Straight Asthanks for proving my point, eat shit
>>536855209Which is? That academic logic is wrong?>If A, then B>-B>-AYou can't go wrong with that.Stay mad.
>>536854473Nobody has mentioned careers. Nobody is talking about utility. You're arguing with a strawman you've constructed in your head.>>536854572>I'm not the topicI agree, the topic is stoicism.You've asserted in the OP that learning logic, grammar and rhetoric are necessary, or at the very least conducive to being stoic. I think we agree on this. Or do you hold a different position?The current argument is whether or not there is an innate potential (or limit) to an individual's ability to learn these skills and adopt the behavior necessary to be "stoic".You seem to assert that there is no innate ability and no potential grounded in reality. That any and EVERY individual possesses the exact same, identical potential for learning, regardless of priors. Do I have you right, here?>>536854721>I'm not here to debate ignorant brainwashed retards like you, I don't care about what you think because you know nothing, I'm here to school you, bodybagged by Stoicism and Freemasonry, eat shit, forever.You aren't schooling anybody. You're just making assertions, without argumentative backing. And ironically, despite you posting the maslow's pyramid of counter-arguments, no retort you've made so far has gotten past being a mere contradiction.Would you like to try making your point again? This time, without ad hominem, without mere contradiction. State your point. Show your work. Define the grammar, enumerate the arguments using the grammar, translate the arguments into commensurable information via rhetoric.I'm willing to be patient.
>>536855495didn't read your shitpost
>>536850544>>536852001>>536854880Fucking bodied.
>>536855495a stoic wouldn't even make this thread, and by that virtue alone we know op is fake and gayi always levy ad hom against them, because i know they're ego-driven and can't take iti can even tell them exactly what i will do, and it will still trigger them
>>536855795>Pseud-posting>Germ-anon asks you to clarify your position>Throw a tantrumlmao
>>536855958I love when people get so bodied they start baselessly flexing.
>>536855795OK. Lmao.Why do you even make these threads, Sven?What do you gain from being this masochistic?You can still post an argument if you want, btw. I don't hold grudges.
>>536854721>I'm here to school youMonstrā nōbīs igitur quid studēre necesse sit ut ad vēram scholam redigāmur, id est verbīgratiā quid legendum est nōbīs. Apud quōs librōs atque auctōrēs ēmolumenta petere dēbēmus?
>>536848200Shut up fag
>>536848200>Both Stoicism and Freemasonry value the study of logic/the Trivium highly.Yet Freemasons (at least in countries like France) were behind moral liberalism/anarchy (and still are today). Only logical if your end goal is the destruction of order.>>536852001>IQ does not entirely pre-determine the individual outcome, yes. Nobody is born with logic, grammar or rhetoric innately, it must be taught.>However IQ does correlate with a natural aptitude for learning, and in many areas defines the maximum potential attainable through education.>And more importantly, IQ is not the only initial condition which exists.>All ashlars begin rough and must be smoothed. But not all ashlars can be smoothed to the same degree, or into a functional form, nor will the effort required for each be the same.Correct.>>536853966Why do you take issue with what he said? Everyone must study, but potentials differ greatly. Some have zero (some entire races even). "Ashlars" differ from individual to individual, do you not agree?
damn, this guy got wrecked.i wonder if we'll get an 'i was just pretending to be retarded' out of this one.
>>536856409Nope, you're viewing things through a Western materialist utilitarian lens. Logic within Stoicism and Freemasonry is about refinement of the spirit, not about being an efficient part of a factory, which is what the system has brainwashed your mind into being all about. You are not only the ashlar but also the mason holding the chisel. Your view of innateness and potential are totally colored by a Western cultural bias. You build a cathedral to be office space. You are a rat. You can't think. You have no soul. All of you retards bodybagged by Stoicism and Freemasonry, eat shit, forever.
Whats the point of learning anything if you're just going to die anyway
>>536856915What's the point of living if your just going to die anyway?>Hint: Aristotle called it eudaimoniaBtw, for anybody interested in actually learning about propositional logic instead of watching Sven embarrass himself, here's a good primer:>http://pfister.ee.duke.edu/courses/ece586/notes_ch1.pdf
>>536857367fuck off fag, go be a corporate cocksucker somewhere else
>>536857367top kekThanks mate
>>536856915killing yourself is just as pointless as continuing to live, so you may as well learn stuff. i learned today that under a "big rip" scenario, the universe has about 200 billion more years left. most scientists think that it is unlikely to happen though and the universe will continue on for trillions of more years until there's nothing but black holes left. not very encouraging but by that point, life will have been extinct for a very long time anyways.
>logic is innate, not something you study>actually stoicism and freemasonry say it's something you study>akschully yes it's something you study, but some need more work and can't reach as highNo, you're all utilitarians at heart. Logic is not like studying for grades in school so that you can get a job and make money. It's another realm entirely. Completely ungraspable to you brainlets, you're all too brainrotted by Western materialist utilitarian society.he's talking about you:>>>/wsg/6166402bodybagged by Stoicisim and Freemasonry, eat shit, forever, brainrotted subhumans
>>536858193As I have stated, I have a bachelor in philosophy. Do you really think I studied that stuff to maximize my capital gains?From what I understand, we all agree on most things you are saying, but you throw tantrums as soon as we disagree on a minor aspect of your thesis.You can do better.
>>536848200Honestly, you’re kind of a dumbass for coming here to preach this retarded bullshit because most people here are lemmings that only communicate through memes seriously you could say that 911 was done by Muslims and their memetic informed paradigm believes it was George Bush conspiring with Jews and Saudi royalty so their mind is just completely broken. These people are the least critical thinkers you will ever meet and it figures that most of them are Jeets and Muslims these daysPs teaching Third World to adopt an ideology of self accountability is like teaching a snowflake that it would do better in the tropics. It really is just out of their realm of comfort and compatibility. The third world wives I’m being servile a little droids. Why do you think Russia and China give zero fucks about their own citizens, dying and retarded wars and programs by the millions?
>>536858193who cares what these profanes think, just keep polishing your pole in front of the jewish temple.you're the chosen one, not them
>>536858590Fuck off and kys fag or present actual arguments. At first this board insisted that logic is innate. Now the focus has shifted toward saying that some have more potential than others and some need more work than others. This is still being stuck in the same brainwashed notion of what logic is. The logic you know is the logic that is given you to be a factory worker, if even that. The logic in Stoicism and Freemasonry is another realm, one where your refinement is not measured by dollars, but since all you know is dollars you can't grasp this. You are stuck in viewing everything through a Western cultural bias, where everything is centered on profit, the material, the measurable, utility, what brand of car you drive, what size your house is. This is not the realm of Stoicism.
>>536848200>stoicismlotta words for a big tough man there, chatty cathy
>>536858981>some have more potential than others and some need more work than others>The logic in Stoicism is another realmThese aren't contradictory at all. The other realm is connected to ours. To study and refine yourself you need potential in the first place. An actual retarded person for example can't "access the realm of logic".
>>536857560Why dont you post some literature, Sven? Spanish anon >>536856192 already asked you once and you gave him no response.I actually liked the text you posted here:>>536854473Do you have a source for the entire book? It sounds like a good read.>>536858193>he's talking about you:Bowden believed there was a physical, physiological basis to life, beauty, intellect, attitude, which ultimately expresses itself as culture or civilization. Whether a culture strives for utilitarian, materialist goods ("useful goods" your text above would define it) or whether it strives for spiritual nourishment ("valueable goods") and excellence in action and thought, is a consequent from their biological priors. Vid rel, his words:>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=147Ifw6p8cM>>536858981>At first this board insisted that logic is innate. Now the focus has shifted toward saying that some have more potential than others and some need more work than othersThere are lots of different people on this board, Sven. Some might even have... different opinions to eachother! Gasp! The horror!>This is not the realm of Stoicism.But then please, explain it. Or at least try to explain it. What IS this realm of Stoicism you vaguely allude to? What is spiritual excellence? How do we express it, define it, achieve it? What books can we read to learn about it?
>>536858981>The logic you know is the logic that is given you to be a factory worker, if even that. The logic in Stoicism and Freemasonry is another realmhow do you get it from another realm, does another pole polisher inspect your pole and tell you when you've polished yours enough? are you a 33rd degree pole polisher yet?>your pole is magnificent my apprentice, you are ready now, to stand in front of Solomon's Temple
>>536859329I'm sorry you married a public school teacher, shit happens.You have no clue what refinement of the mind is. Go back to sucking cocks for dollars.relevant random gemhttps://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/536505642/
>>536858981Read my first comment. I think I made it pretty clear I believe there is potential involved and we aren't blank slates. Which has been my position throughout this thread.Also, please explain how I am the one focused on material wealth when you are the one who keep going back to that?
>>536859713>Writing in the fourth and fifth centuries, Saint Augustine of Hippo sought the reflection of the Divine not by gazing outward at the material creation, but by turning the intellectual apparatus inward.>intellectual apparatusin this world a brain is required to host that apparatus and brains differ from individual to individual and this determines to a great extent the scope of use...(unrelated, but turning inwards didn't stop augustine from coming up with retarded notions)
>>536859713>In the thirteenth century, the reintroduction of Aristotelian text into Western Europe via Islamic and Jewish scholars prompted a radical reconfiguration of this interior sanctuary. Confronted with the necessity of aligning theological doctrine with a systematic, logical framework, Saint Thomas Aquinas executed a profound philosophical pivot. Aquinas moved away from the radical interiority of Augustine, asserting a principle that shifted the gaze of human intelligence entirely outward:>By establishing that all human knowledge must originate from sensory encounters with the external, physical universe, Aquinas subtly dismantled the sovereign authority of the Augustinian Memoria. The human mind was no longer treated as an innate, self-contained divine archive waiting to be uncovered through deep contemplation. Instead, the mind was repositioned as an exceptionally advanced biological processor—a blank slate that must systematically gather data points from the external world, categorize them, and run logical inferences upon them to construct a model of reality.This is true in great part btw. If you've read this, why do you shill Freemasonry? Aquinas iirc was condemned for his Aristotelianism. Renaissance onward (including ofc the Enlightenment era) followed from there. It sounds like you should look into traditional catholicism or Platonism only. Freemasons are either atheists who don't believe in any other realm (eg Grand Orient) or humanist/materialist scumbags.
>>536860615>Aquinas iirc was condemned for his Aristotelianism.*by the church ofc
>>536848200its just original version of therapy(cbt) to keep ur asshole lubed and society socially stable. stoicism comes with good boy points(virtue) too so yeah kinda religious but ultimately utilitarianhad i been roman emperor or some shit id want goys to be stoic no shit, personally? fuck nocivilization and its discontents type shyt innit
>>536860615I posted it because this discussion seems to touch on the same dichotomy which it brings up. People who are stuck in the materialist way of viewing things, where the brain is just biology, and the world outside is just rocks, it's all just molecules and shit, they can never ever grasp another worldview. The other view is that the mind is more like a telescope into the universe. Logic precedes science by millennia, and all of the societies of the mysteries do too. But people are stuck in the realm of the measurable, the empirically testable. Anyway I'm wasting my breath.
