Why do Catholics worship mary again
>>537052311All Christians do.
Christianity is a disgusting faggot simp religion which should be persecuted by the state
>>537052395Jehovah's witnesses don't. Because they're the only denomination that does what the Bible says over what a bunch of catholic kikes wrote about what the Bible says Reminder if you hate Jehovah's witnesses congrats you're a good goy in the eyes of atheists, Jews and Catholics all in one.
>>537052311Catholics and Orthodox are weirdos. Instead of saying "we don't know whether Mary had children with Joseph" or "yeah the Gospel of James was fake, our bad" they just say "YOU MUST BELIEVE THIS OR YOURE ANATHEMA"
>>537052311Gods busy and doesnt get humans. Mary gets it and he listens to her. So you can get your shit done faster if she rushes you to the front of the queue.
>>537052311Is it weird I have a sexual attraction to the virgin mary
>>537052311We don't you fucking retard.
>>537052465>" they just say "YOU MUST BELIEVE THIS OR YOURE ANATHEMA"Kinda based ngl, white coded.
>>537052499I guessing god would understand
>>537052507Not only do you worship Mary, you created elaborate fanfiction.
>>537052450>Because they're the only denomination that does what the Bible saysJW deny that Jesus Christ came in the flesh which is the definition of antichrist according to the epistle of John
>>537052311it is took from the pagan cults of Artemis, Cybele, Isis and others, that's more or less how religion works, yw.
>>537052431>I saw my wife get fucked by this man, how can I avoid her getting stoned to death AND maintain my honor? I know I will create this book proclaming she got impregnated by a higher force, and since my brothers are all goat fuckers and scared of fairy tales they will believe me!Anyway I hate Christcucks but catholics are giga retards, the SON is the one who does the miracles, not the MOTHER so logically we should worship the SON.Imo catholicism is the test run for feminism, placing women above men and forgiving adultery.Hence loose women love catholicism.
>>537052311>why do people worship a woman who've been decided to give a virgin birth to God's human's form to absolve humanity from the original sin?
>>537052431did joseph get upset any time mary cried god's name during sex?
>>537052721Shut up Kike
When the idolatrous pagans could no longer squelch Christianity they realized if you cant beat them then join themSo they just changed all their idols names to apostles names and started killing anyone who opposed their new christian religionIts the whore of babylon because you can buy indulgences and do whatever sin you want There is nothing Christian about it and I cannot wait until it is obliterated off the face of the earth
>>537052499are you the holy spirit?
>>537052311He was born of the Virgin Sea.
>>537052450Oh piss off, they still believe God's magic semen and impregnated her. A large portion of one side of my family is JW so I know more about it than you do.
>>537052828>you can buy indulgencesTo sell them was banned in the Council of Trent >1567
>>537052963
>>537052779>who've been decidedNote the snake tongue. Just say "forced". Mary was forced to give birth
>>537052311Christianity is for slaves
>>537052981>The Catholic Church never banned the concept of indulgences, but it banned their sale in 1567. Pope Pius V formally abolished all financial transactions tied to securing them to stop widespread corruption and abuses.
>>537052311there's the sinful impulse to rebel against God and the strong pull of demons deceiving people into doing it.
>>537052828Its dying.Jews created religion as a divide and conquer tactics, i surprised it lasted as long as it did desu.Now politics are replacing religion, which is more effective, will last longer and creates many 'false idols'.Which is perfect for jews as they love hierachy.
>>537052981any religion with some concept that only one person in it can talk to god, be his voice, is pure fucking con artistry
It's crypto paganism.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_of_Heaven_(antiquity)
>Jesus chicken died for your sins goyim
>>537053032Tf is this desu shit?I typed to be honest, holy fuck lol, flashback to r34 when they replaced nigger with 'successful black person'
>>537053125holy newfag, that filter's only existed here for like 15 years
>>537053103The LORD Jesus, King of Kings, bound Satan and redeemed the world.
>>537053053Sunday morning and then Norwegian rabbi is back at work.
>>537053155I'm sure satan hates bondage play
>>537053147It's a bot
>>537052450Jw isn't Christian if they don't believe CHRIST is God. It's in the name.
>Jeremiah 7>Jeremiah 44the RCC is going to get judged so harsh and everyone will have to live through it just because they cant stop being idolaters.thanks so much....
>>537053193He's your father. Repent.
>>537052311Well, if your whole doctrine says that Jesus is God, so his mother at least is semi-divine. Then the time and some roman politeism finished the work.
>>537053198maybemaybe not
>>537052840he got inspired by it
>>537052465This is why the superior theological position is the Anglican/Episcopalian church who is humble enough to entertain ideas no one can say they have the clear answer to. In my opinion proclaiming something ambiguous to be true in the way you see it is borderline sinful as you may be way off and misleading people.
>>537053229glad to see at least one germ is keeping Luther's legacy alive by living in his footsteps
>>537053290it's interesting how the japs, upon first hearing about christianity, heard all the same names from judaism, said "it's more judaism", and spent a couple hundred years executing missionaries and converts
>>537053360Seems like a non-sequitur. I'm neither Anglican or Episcopalian and I'm open to things not clearly stated in Scripture. I think it's just a pride and ignorance thing.
>>537053237I could make a really ribald reply here but I won't
>>537052507Imbecile
>>537052721
>>537052795
>>537053395They had to work hard to suppress it as it spread like wildfire on its ownTorturing believers will get them to stop, who woulda thought? Yet some still did in secret.On that note, the movie "silence" is funny to me. Catholics put up a huge stink over images. Just tread. It's an image, not Jesus.
>>537053687>from a screenplay by Jay Cocks and Scorsesenever saw that, lol>They had to work hard to suppress it as it spread like wildfire on its ownI think you missed my point but I'm not going to beat you eover the head with it
>>537053470Well I'll just say from an evangelical background - yes pride is a factor - but asking if Exodus is historical or Jewish myth will get you in hot water fast. Very dogmatic.When I went to Anglican churches they laughed and said there's no historical evidence for it. I believe Moses was probably a real person, but the events as described are myth in nature.Carry this over to like 10 other questions that were getting my faith questioned one place and promoting healthy discussion in my new church
>>537053830You know the most prime ministers of Japan have been of catholic faith right?They still failed.
>>537053870Yeah, that's way too liberal. The New Testament does not speak about Exodus as if it's mythology.>He brought them out, after that he had showed wonders and signs in the land of Egypt, and in the Red sea, and in the wilderness forty years.>Acts 7:36 KJVAAEhttps://bible.com/bible/546/act.7.36.KJVAAE
>>537052311Because early christians could not read and were used to having female goddesses in their pagan religions. That's why they clung to mary and even believe she's more loving than Jesus. Literally just because she's a woman. It's satanic.>>537052507You literally do in every way except by name.
>>537053934>most prime ministers of Japan have been of catholic faith right?>They still failed.the catholic prime ministers failed?you still missed it
>>537052311Catholics only worship GOD.Why do Protestants keep repeating the same old lies?
>>537052311They love the whore and wish their daughters were whores too.
>>537052431Both Joseph and Mary died as Virgins. Of course, so did Christ. Holy Family - above all others as an example.
>>537054133>prays to a whole pantheon of saints[X] Doubt>>537054243made up bullshit.the scripture clearly states that Joseph knew Mary after Jesus was born. Jesus also had siblings.stop believing roman propaganda.
>>537052311because it's Paganism with a Christian veneer after the Roman Empire made it their official religion. They just absorbed more and more Paganism in the attempt to spread their religion and make it palatable to the heathen, combined with Greek Philosopher converts like Origin and Augustine who began allegorizing scripture to make it fit their dualistic Greek philosophy.The result?A "Christian" Denomination that has a goddess that they use as a mediator between them and God (violating 1 Timothy 2:5), makes statues and prays to them and falls on their face to them while making prayers praising her (violating the commandment against Idols)... repetitive prayers that Jesus said not to do in the sermon on the mount too, needing pagan prayer counting beads like Buddhist monksand no, Jesus praying the same prayer 3 times, having breaks in between each time he repeated the prayer at Gethsemane is NOT the same as a structured prayer with multiple repetitions of the same MANTRA in the prayer.They also adopted Pagan feasts just giving them "Christian" veneers, Samhain became All Hallow's Eve which if you go anywhere in the world.. they don't practice any All Hallow's Eve, they practice Samhain and call it Halloween. Yule and Saturnalia became Christmas and we still have the wreaths and presents from Saturnalia and the Yule tree and candles.. and no it wasn't Jesus' birthday at all, this was a political move to keep Pagan converts happy.and Easter.. come on man, it literally comes from the name of the Mesopotamian fertility goddess Ishtar. Who's symbols were rabbits and eggs.Catholicism spread European Paganism all around the world and called it Christianity.
>>537054536it's purely a coincidence that christianity happened to replace the entire roman pantheon, then colloqiually name its capital city "Rome" like some spiteful and hateful jewish joke on the romans
>>537052311Why Christians worship a literal Jew, who was borned In Jew territory.
jews think it's really funny to have goyim effectively worshipping their god, but in this "wrong" way to how they're supposed to, so you go to their hell, in their minds
>>537052311Because solely worshiping an abstract Platonic Yahweh is unnatural to humans and only appeals to homosexual pedophiles
>>537052499nope
>>537054243Joseph had other kids you idiot jesus had a brother
>>537052311We don’t. Learn the difference between worship and prayer. Or just bring up the same tired talking points for 500 years idc
>>537052721There will always be simps anon, as long as there is air
>>537055605Jesus is Black. Thats a fact!
>>537055605Prayer is an act of faith that you believe who you are praying to can actually hear you, it is giving Mary and the saints the attributes of God of being omniscient, or omnipresent or both.God has these qualities, of being able to be everywhere at once, and know what you are praying before you even think it.Mary and the Saints do not possess these attributes.nor are they authorized to be your mediators between you and God. Jesus is your mediator.1 Timothy 2:5.
>>537055605>I just prayed to other gods, I didnt worship themtalmud level pilpul
>>537055756>dad hits it once and disappears, neer to be seen againI mean
>>537052311mother of gad = gad
>>537056130>mfw when people think there was a hebrew man named IEUSUS (hail zeus) walking around teaching people stuff
>>537052395Nope. Worshipping Mary is a Catholic thing.
>>537052311If you don't count Jesus as Human since he's literally God made Flesh, then Mary is the perfect human. Not a drop of sin.
>>537056509>Not a drop of sin.what about original sin
>>537052921before dicks and balls where did you come from?are you a “primordial swamp” monster, faggot?you nor your dad nor his dad nor the whole line of faggots you russian dolled down from created their own cocks, dumbass.
>>537056611it's called a matryoshka doll, frendo
>>537056587Christcucks aren’t human and are not to be reasoned with
All of you who talk shit about suffer the worst hell. And one day you can call her a whore personallyhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQYW5C6LNow&thttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZHYLyxz7kMhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEhjwCsDDsc&t
>>537055605Kill christians. Behead christians. Roundhouse kick a christian into the concrete. Slam dunk a christian baby into the trashcan. Crucify filthy christians. Defecate in a christians food. Launch christians into the sun. Stir fry christians in a wok. Toss christians into active volcanoes. Urinate into a christians gas tank. Judo throw christians into a wood chipper. Twist christians heads off. Report christians to the IRS. Karate chop christians in half. Curb stomp pregnant christians. Trap christians in quicksand. Crush christians in the trash compactor. Liquefy christians in a vat of acid. Eat christians. Dissect christians. Exterminate christians in the gas chamber. Stomp christian skulls with steel toed boots. Cremate christians in the oven. Lobotomize christians. Mandatory abortions for christians. Grind christian fetuses in the garbage disposal. Drown christians in fried chicken grease. Vaporize christians with a ray gun. Kick old christians down the stairs. Feed christians to alligators. Slice christians with a katana.
>>537055756>>537055793>>537055861so many triggered jews and dunning-Kruger prots itt. Catholic and Orthobros are winning
>>537057185>she shall crush thy headheretical mistranslationenjoy your jesuit bible tho
>>537057282>‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
>>537056587I believe being the vessel for God himself gives her a free pass. And even if she has original sin, still puts her at the top of the leaderboard of a no sin run on Earth.
>>537057337Depart from me, you WORKERS OF LAWLESSNESSOther translations: You who breaks Gods lawsYou who practice sinsGreek Original Language: AnomianMeaning: Disobedience, lawlessnessMatthew 7:21-23 is speaking about faith alone christians who thought they only needed to believe in Jesus, but not keep his commandments.
>>537057737attributing attributes of God to Mary is idolatry.only Jesus did not sin.Mary still needed to be forgiven.
>>537057795correct. and a good reminder that keeping sabbath rest is part of the commandments which most christians ignore for the vatican sanctioned day of rest, sunday.>13 And the Lord says: “Because they have forsaken my law that I set before them, and have not obeyed my voice or walked in accord with it, 14 but have stubbornly followed their own hearts and have gone after the Baals, as their fathers taught them. 15 Therefore thus says the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel: Behold, I will feed this people with bitter food, and give them poisonous water to drink. 16 I will scatter them among the nations whom neither they nor their fathers have known, and I will send the sword after them, until I have consumed them.”Jeremiah 9
>>537057850>Mary still needed to be forgiven.how so? last I checked it is Jesus Christ who forgives sins.
>>537058091correct.I'm saying that Jesus' death atoned for Mary's sins the same way that they atoned for anyone else who would have faith in Him.She was not someone who was getting to heaven on her own.
This thread again. Fuck off kike
>>537058208>Jesus' death atoned for Mary's sins the same way that they atoned for anyone else who would have faith in Him.>>537053103>>Jesus chicken died for your sins goyimI don't think Jesus himself was some controlled opposition but the religion past Saul entering the picture is entirely unreliable and likely resembles nothing of what it was originally about
>>537055793Mary and the saints are alive in Christ because God is God of the living. It's no different from asking your friends and family to pray for you.
>>537058693>Mary and the saints are alive in Christ because God is God of the living.aren't all those people dead, though
>>537055086It's intentional, because saints are meant to replace the fallen gods of our world.
>>537058729What makes you think so?
>>537058821aren't most saints martyrs famous for being killed for their beliefs?
>>537058761wait, so it's a faux pantheon?
>>537058954>The one who believes in me will live, even though they die.t. our saviorGod came down to conquer death. For followers of God, Physical death is simply a transition to eternal life now. The saints, having achieved deep communion with Christ, transition into a life in Christ. Christ lives in them, and as such they are in a strong position to pray for us.
>>537059124Not exactly a pantheon. It's the Church, the heavenly members of which are watching out for us like big brothers and sisters.
>>537058208yeah may bad, I read it wrong.
What does the Talmud say about Jesus?https://youtu.be/Iu6UlPROLX4
>>537058693it's entirely different.if I walk up to you, a physical being, and ask you to pray with me or for me, I don't have to place faith in you that you can hear me, you're right there. Even over the internet, I know you're at your screen and can see what I send.You are having to act on faith that Mary is able to hear you however, because there's no feedback. You are choosing to believe that Mary, like God, can be everywhere at once, because what about the other Catholics praying to her at the same time?would you agree that if I prayed to you right now, that'd be really silly because you can't hear my prayer?You are believing, that though Mary cannot be seen, heard, touched, smelt, whatever, that she is present with you and can hear your prayer, and my prayer, at the same time, if we were both to pray to her right now.This is giving her the attribute of omnipresence that belongs to God.
>>537058693>It's no different from asking your friends and family to pray for you.it is, since you commune with spirits.this is such a cheap cop out to justify your idolatry.
>>537052395Nope, that is a Catholic thing. Also, the leader of the Catholic Church (The Pope) just announced that people should stop worshiping Mary. Jesus was the one who saved, he did not have co-savior next to him.
>>537052431Jeets always stick together. Probably because of the jam.
>>537059263>the heavenly members of which are watching out for us like big brothers and sisterswho taught you this garbage?now you have a whole pantheon of spirits that replace Jesus Christ as the one watching over you.this is satanic.
>>537052395Wrong, gagdeep. Remember to be careful around those train tracks.
>>537058021The sabbath will also be kept in the Kingdom of God. And God has also promised to slay all eaters of pork on his 2nd coming. See Isaiah 66.Its not hard to keep the sabbath, its not a burden but the opposite, but if you want to see spiritual wickedness see how the average christian screams and wraiths and come up with any excuse to not observe the 4th commandment. Same with people who cannot give up pork, or stop doing pagan christmas.
>>537060001unclean food is not mentioned in the commandments.
>>537058217This. And wowzers apostolic anons! We better abandon the faith of our ancestors for 2,000 years because Pastor Kevin down at the McChurch Strip Mall(tm) said a thing! Big yikes!
>>537059290Even though we may not individually have direct feedback on it, the collective empirical experience of the Church for the past two thousand years is that it works. Though we do not know exactly how it works, since the laws and realities of the heavenly realm are largely unknowable to us in our present condition, what does seem to be true, however, is that heavenly beings do not experience the same limitations of space, time and awareness we do. There are even earthly saints who have appeared in two different places at the same time. Saint Paisios the Athonite for example was seen praying on his knees on the foredeck of a ship lost in the sea in the midst of a violent storm as if protecting it from harm, all the while he was really praying in his cell on Mount Athos. There are numerous similar stories in the lives of the saints.>>537059342Rather than a mere spirit, we communicate with the whole personhood of the saint. Having finished their earthly walk with exceeding success, they are now the closest members to God in the Body of Christ, and therefore our benefactors, role models and servants.>>537059490>who taught you this garbage?What do you mean? It is two thousand years of Christian theology. Those who teach to us about Jesus teach this too. >now you have a whole pantheon of spirits that replace Jesus Christ as the one watching over you.How could they replace Jesus Christ, when they submit to Christ, live in Christ, get their authority only from Christ, and point not to themselves but to Christ?
>>537060356It’s jews baiting anon. Pay them no heed.
>>537060356>they are now the closest members to God in the Body of Christ, and therefore our benefactors, role models and servantsmade up garbage that is not mentioned in the scriptures.you believe myths and fables. not the gospel. there is ONE mediator between man and God, Jesus Christ.>Those who teach to us about Jesus teach this too.cant find it in the scriptures. thus those teaching are traditions of men.>15 Then Pharisees and scribes came to Jesus from Jerusalem and said, 2 “Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat.” 3 He answered them, “And why do you break the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition?>How could they replace Jesus Christ,you pray and consult them instead of your mediator. thus they are between you and God.>when they submit to Christ, live in Christ, get their authority only from Christ, and point not to themselves but to Christ?how do you know this? this is just made up fairytail stuff.stick to the scripture. not even the pharisees prayed to Abraham or Moses.
>>537060348please read the scriptures yourself and dont take man as your authority.
>>537060155Isaiah 66:15-17 is Gods promise that when Jesus returns with his chariots (Holy Angels) he will come in fire and vengeance, and those who eat swines flesh, abominations and the mice, will be consumed by his wrath.https://youtu.be/Y76oj58yEkI
>>537059490Cloud of witnesses? Incense symbolizing the prayers of the saints? Guardian angels (not saints, but still beings)? How is this heretical? I say this as a Protestant. And beware of the "Swede".
>>537060668>there is ONE mediator between man and God, Jesus Christ.Absolutely. It doesn't mean we cannot have others pray for us. Would you also dispute that angels watch over us?>cant find it in the scriptures. The Scriptures are not an all-encompassing encyclopedia of dogma. They are only one, albeit important, part of the framework of our faith. They cannot be separated from this framework and read as a standalone work, but rather they can only be read in the context they have been written in & for, which is the lived faith of the Church. There is nothing in the Scriptures that testifies against the things we are discussing. If you think about it, why would the Church canonize texts that refute its own dogma?>thus those teaching are traditions of men.How do you objectively differentiate between traditions of God and traditions of men?>you pray and consult them instead of your mediator. Please read the full chapter in which Christ is described as the only mediator (1 Timothy 2). It is not particularly relevant to your argument, as it concerns our salvation rather than the logistics of prayer.>how do you know this?Naturally because it is what Christians have demonstrably always believed in.>>537060751Consider that when you say this, you are assuming the position of authority yourself. You are elevating yourself to the popehood of your own faith, equating your own subjective understanding with the objective truth. It is impossible to arrive to the correct faith by reading the Bible in isolation in accordance with one's self-justified understanding, and the diverse history of Protestantism is perhaps the strongest possible argument for this.
>>537061057>if you eat unclean food demons enter your bodythis man has no idea what he is talking about.
>>537060751The Catholic Church gave you the table of contents for those scriptures anon. The first Christians had no Bible and relied on Bishops to promulgate teachings and most believers were illiterate. Now run off to your synagogue to seethe
>>537061478You're doing the same thing kikes do when they call themselves Israel. The "Catholic Church" of Early Christianity was certainly not whatever denomination you think youre part of.
>>537052450JH aren't even Christians
>>537061271>we cannot have others pray for ushow do you even know there is someone that could pray for you?what is your evidence.>Would you also dispute that angels watch over us?are you in contact with angels? do you pray to them or communicate with them?>The Scriptures are not an all-encompassing encyclopedia of dogma.yes they are.>There is nothing in the Scriptures that testifies against the things we are discussing.Deut 1810 There shall not be found among you anyone who burns his son or his daughter as an offering,[a] anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens, or a sorcerer 11 or a charmer or a medium or a necromancer or one who inquires of the dead, 12 for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord.>traditions of God and traditions of meneasy, read the sciptures. any teaching that is contrary to the scripture is a tradition originating with men.>It is not particularly relevant to your argumenthow is it not relevant? Paul was preaching to pagans and warning them about doctrines of demons since these were the traditions at his time.today the churches went full cycle back to the pagan traditions of old. its the same thing as it was back then, accepting doctrines of demons.>Naturally because it is what Christians have demonstrably always believed in.no, its what the apostate church believes in. the apostles did not teach that we are to pray to spirits or consult them or that the departed can do anything for us.its made up garbage that invaded the churches and comes from paganism.>you are assuming the position of authority yourselfscripture is the authority. all I have to do is quote it.you have nothing, only church traditions that arent covered by scripture.>You are elevating yourself to the popehood of your own faithhow is submitting to the scripture making myself pope? God made it clear in his written Word.
>>537061271>It is impossible to arrive to the correct faith by reading the Biblethe bible is neither hard to understand or impossible to arrive at the correct conclusion.this whole myth that the bible cant be interpreted correctly is a roman talking point to keep the scripture from men to and to justify their heretical teachings.the scripture is simple, straight forward and easy to read and understand correctly.>and the diverse history of Protestantism there were always people who misuse Gods Word for their own benefit and the roman catholic church is the main offender in that regard.
>>537061478no, it was the received text in koine (common) greek.>The first Christians had no Biblebullshit, the septuagint and the gospel were well spread.>most believers were illiteratemade up garbage, people were well read and educated.the world was full of drooling retards in rags back in the day, that modern jewish brainwashing.
>>537061271let me ask you a simple question.in your faith, who decides who is a saint that is in heaven?
>>537052431spbp turning white women into race traitors and white men into cucks started here.
>>537061804>how do you even know there is someone that could pray for you?what is your evidence.As said, it is the collective empirical experience of the Church for the two thousand of years. The saints have interacted and keep interacting with the Church through numerous ways from guidance and intercession to healing and appearances.>are you in contact with angels? do you pray to them or communicate with them?Not personally, but the reality of this is something that is obvious even in the Scriptures themselves, for ex. the women coming to the empty tomb of Jesus and encountering an angel, or angels ministering to Jesus after his days in the desert.>yes they are.According to whom?>easy, read the sciptures. any teaching that is contrary to the scripture is a tradition originating with men.As far as I can read, no tradition of the Church is in opposition with the Scriptures. Now here comes the core of the problem: when two scripture reading Christians disagree, how do you determine which one of you is right?>Deut 18I don't see how this applies. If you think otherwise, please spell it out.>easy, read the sciptures. any teaching that is contrary to the scripture is a tradition originating with men.Again, who decides when the scriptures are contradicting tradition?>how is it not relevant?Because you misunderstand what is being meant by mediator. It's a statement of ontology, not logistics of prayer.>scripture is the authority. all I have to do is quote it.By assigning context and meaning to what you are quoting, you are subjecting to your personal bias and understanding, in essence authoritatively defending your subjective understanding as the truth.>how is submitting to the scripture making myself pope?You're not submitting to the scripture. You are submitting to your own ideas based on the scripture.
>>537052395How much the Bible says one thing is how much it ought to be done. That's why the whole Mary 6 million times a day is such a discrepancy. Now nobody wants to be the catholic countries really.
>>537061936With all due respect, you seem blind to the limitations of your own epistemology. By mistaking the Bible for the whole of the faith, you effectively make it impossible for you to arrive to the correct faith. Christianity is not based on the Bible, but the Bible is based on Christianity.>>537062445God does. The Church either infers or is revealed by the Holy Spirit. I'll talk to you later, gotta go for a while.
>>537062506>The saintswho are the saints? how do they identify themselves?do you not know that the world is ruled by satan and his demons? how can you tell them apart?>Not personallyyes, because Angels do the Will of God and not the will of men. what makes you think that saints somehow are at your behalf and must submit to your will and prayers?>According to whom?according to God. Jesus kept the scriptures as authority, not the traditions of the pharisees.>I don't see how this applies.you are one who inquires of the dead if you pray and ask deceased saints for favors or prayers. its direct communication with the spiritual realm. its an abomination to the Lord.>Again, who decides when the scriptures are contradicting tradition?the scripture of course. if traditions teaches contrary to the scripture it is wrong and should be abandoned.>It's a statement of ontology, not logistics of prayer.I mean, if you are arguing about about logistics of prayers to saints you are to far down the occult that I cant help you.this is straight up witchcraft stuff.> in essence authoritatively defending your subjective understanding as the truth.the scripture are objective.if it is written that you are not to pray to spirits then its just that.you dont need to come up with loopholes to pray to spirits around it.this is just jewish talmud level of thinking.>You are submitting to your own ideas based on the scripture.how so? you are the one that doesnt submit to scripture but rather rejects it in favor of human traditions.youre the heretic here, not me.>By mistaking the Bible for the whole of the faith, you effectively make it impossible for you to arrive to the correct faith.holy, thats right up blasphemy bro.you basically affirm that you follow a different gospel than what the bible teaches.>God does.then please point me to the chapter in the bible.
>>537052395>first post lies about ChristiansJIDF sure is quick today. >>537053002t. marxist
>>537063148bumping to avoid archive
>>537052311I'm sure it's been said in this thread but without Mother Mary there's no Jesus Christ or no John the Baptist. The whole "leaping for joy" in Elizabeth 's womb, no sacrifice for our sins the whole ordeal @_@;
>>537063148>who are the saints? how do they identify themselves?Saints are basically highly sanctified Christians who have through their ascetic struggle achieved a significant degree of Christlikeness. Anyone could become a saint. Saints do not identify themselves, rather the Holy Spirit reveals them to the Church as needed. There are also countless of unidentified saints from all walks of life. Attaining sainthood is the main goal of the Christian life, as it is our true nature.>yes, because Angels do the Will of God and not the will of men. what makes you think that saints somehow are at your behalf and must submit to your will and prayers?I don't. Angels and saints work the same way, setting their own will aside in order to carry out the will of God.>do you not know that the world is ruled by satan and his demons? how can you tell them apart?Yes, it's important to be aware of this. The Church is led by the Holy Spirit in its discernment of spiritual entities and recognition of the sainthood. In addition, from the collective teachings and writings of advanced Christians throughout ages we know how Godly and demonic entities generally manifest and behave.
>>537063148>according to God.No - according to you. You made the statement. Those who wrote the scriptures did not postulate that the scriptures were to be an all-encompassing encyclopedia of dogma, neither did those who canonized the scriptures. Not even the scriptures themselves make the case for this. How could we thus infer that God thinks so? There is no basis for this other than your own subjective judgement.>the scripture of course. But we are in disagreement over what the scriptures are saying! Your answer would be circular: "My understanding of the scriptures is right because the scripture says so." I could say the same exact thing. So how do we determine which one of us is right?>the scripture are objective.It doesn't matter, since not even the most objective thing in the world will help against incorrect subjective interpretation.>if it is written that you are not to pray to spirits then its just that.Unless the dispute is about the meanings of praying and spirits, which is not far from being the case. For example, all Christians believe in "saved by grace through faith", yet 'salvation', 'grace' and 'faith' mean quite different things depending on whether you're a Protestant or an Apostolic Christian. The same sentence is read, yet a considerably different meaning is extracted from it. This is the essence of the problem -- due to your biases and ignorance, you extract meaning that is not intended to be extracted from the texts.>how so? you are the one that doesnt submit to scripture but rather rejects it in favor of human traditions.Question: how is listening to the tradition that wrote the scriptures on what the scriptures mean rejecting it? Would you also go to Tolkien and lecture him on the true meaning of his books?>you basically affirm that you follow a different gospel than what the bible teaches.I'm curious, where in the Bible do you think it self-referentially describes itself as the whole of the faith?
>>537066519>Saints are basically highly sanctified Christiansaccording to whom>who have through their ascetic struggle achieved a significant degree of Christlikenessthats not christianity, you dont achieve christlikeness on your own merits or through worksits God who conforms you to the IMAGE of Christ, you dont become LIKE Christ>Anyone could become a saint.no, only the elect are the saintsGod does the election process and it was decided before creation and time>rather the Holy Spirit reveals them to the Church as neededthe Holy Spirit does not reveal saints, they are hidden with Christ in God for the exact purpose to not be given credit in this world.>Angels and saints work the same waythen they dont answer your prayers since that is not the purpose of angels which makes praying to saints null and void.>The Church is led by the Holy Spiritpeople are led by the Holy Spirit. God doesnt care about institutions or denominations.>we know how Godly and demonic entities generally manifest and behaveclearly not, otherwise prayers to saints and to images would be prohibited.>No - according to you. You made the statement.what do you not get about the authority of the scriptures?>Those who wrote the scriptures did not postulate that the scriptures were to be an all-encompassing encyclopedia of dogma>Not even the scriptures themselves make the case for this.2 Timothy 316 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God[a] may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.according to Paul the scripture is all that is needed.>How could we thus infer that God thinks so? because God hammered it down with his prophets and finally his Son. the scripture is the supreme authority, God tells us what he thinks.>So how do we determine which one of us is right?simple, you dont take the scripture as authoritative. Jesus and the apostles did and so do I.cont.
>>537066550>since not even the most objective thing in the world will help against incorrect subjective interpretation.there is nothing subjective about objective truth.there is only rejection of the objective truth and this is what is being taught in the Churches, to set scripture aside.>due to your biases and ignorance, you extract meaning that is not intended to be extracted from the texts.thats the thing, I am not biased, I let the Word be the Word which I have to subject myself to.its the Churches that claimed authority over the scripture and started teaching contrary to it.the Churches dont submit themselves under the authoritative Word of God. rather they set it apart or outright refuse it.>how is listening to the tradition that wrote the scriptures on what the scriptures mean rejecting it?the tradition did not write the scripture, the scripture was before tradition.>where in the Bible do you think it self-referentially describes itself as the whole of the faith?John 11 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life,[a] and the life was the light of men. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son[d] from the Father, full of grace and truth.Jesus Christ is the Word incarnate and the Word was with God and the Word is God.this is why scripture is all that is needed and you dont need to add to it, God is sufficient. you simply dont need more.everything added to it simply pollutes the pure and immaculate being of God.
>>537052499i like i twhen they have a medal
