Granted, the competition is generally just as expensive (in the $80-100 million range), but why buy ANY 5th, or 4.5 gen fighter after the Iran War?The US was never able to establish full air superiority (SEAD/DEAD) over Iran, despite Iran's subpar capabilities.Instead the US relied heavily on stand-off munitions, and many of its sorties were at the edge of Iranian air space.And they still lost aircraft, including an F-35 (probably to an IR-guided missile). So you can't>own the skieswith F-35s, and>muh stealthis indeed overrated.Yet Iran also showed you don't need an airforce for defense. Modern SAMs and a proliferation of MANPADs are enough to make it too risky even the best air forces.For the cost of one F-35, you could probably buy 160-250 MANPADs--and they require far less maintenance and training.
>>537374379>F-35You can't buy f-35. The only think close to f-35, is the f-35i, f-35c, f-35j, etc. You're never going to get the top model, just lesser versions.
It's called 'paying tribute'. There's no other reason to buy that overpriced piece of shit with the aerodynamic capacity of a brick.>A payment by one ruler or nation to another in acknowledgment of submission or as the price of protection
>>537374379Gonna depend on what kind of weapons and terrain your enemies have. Currently, Iran has the unkillable strategy of "just have a shit ton of mountains and fill them full of missiles and drones". So does North Korea. If your enemy is Iran or North Korea, maybe an F-35 might not help you.
>>537374945Apparently it's very effective against unarmed people. Even then it needs to stay away from battles by a few hundred miles, just in case some sharp fruit or rocks are thrown at its sensitive computer equipment.
years ago read a very good explanation of stealthits not about being invisible, it's about knowing with certainty that your enemy needs a certain sized and powered radar network to see you, and that takes a certain amount of people, trucks, radar arrays etc, because if they dont do this, you have free reignif your plane is stealthy by it's design, once you build it, you don't have to do anything, but your enemy has to maintain a constant level to counter it
>>537374379Better not fly it during a lightning storm...
Build more f-22sGive all Americans f-22sBankrupt the nation building f-22sAmend the constitution to be primarily about the constructing more f-22s
>>537374379>most of the Iranian leaders and high echelon people killed out Maybe for that reason. Yeah the average Belgian won’t see much benefit but I imagine the leaders actually deciding to buy things will take note that the state survived but all the old fucks didn’t
>>537374379because no one wants to buy the j 20 or su 34
>>537375152They still have a heat signature. It was never stealth in any way or shape. But because it's so expensive and your overlord claims it has magical powers, you just pay the US levy.
>>537375456seeing infrared at very long ranges is extremely hard
>>537374379>MANPADsYou are so behind the meta.MANPADs have barely any use in the current year.
>>537375522If you say so, knave.
>>537375152using AA radar also makes them vulnerable to attack, they light up like a Christmas tree and get destroyed (theoretically) by missiles launched from air or ship. That is the doctrine, I think drones will change all that, but not yet.
>>537374379you have no clue lol.the US and israel were able to strike deep into iranian territory without irans sams being able to do anything to stop it. The fact that an F35 got damaged by an IR missile rather than by radar guided munitions shows that stealth is indeed effective. It's just that fuckups happen. From what I heard so far, the iranian ad learned quickly they could not stop airstrikes from happening and tried to strike fighters "on their way out" which makes SEAD alot less effektive, because of the much shorter time window.manpads also don't have the effective range to stop airstrikes from happening, which is the primary objective of ad. damaging or shooting down an F35 is great, but if you didn't stop it from blowing up a power plant, you still failed in your mission.I still think the US fucked up big time in actually believing the israeli plan would work the way they sad, but since the biggest good goy every is president it's really no surprise
>>537374545It's absolutely better and (ironically) cheaper than the competition.But it's clear that modern anti-air and MANPADs make it so that even for the US, and even with the F-35, SEAD/DEAD is dicey.The fact that Israel had no losses is probably due in no small measure to the IAF being the best in the world (pound-for-pound).But if the sales pitch is>just make sure your pilots are the top 0.1% brothat's hardly enticing, especially if you're trying to sell to gulf states where half the people are the children of cousin marriages.
>>537375879In reality, it you who doesn't have a clue. Asymmetric war. Of course the US dominates the sky, regardless of muh stealth. It's irrelevant. The Iranians never cared. Their weapons are deep underground spread out over an area the size of Western Europe. Good luck first finding out where they are, and then extra good luck taking them out. Yes, you can kill civilians like the subhuman jew that you are. But that's not Iran's problem. That's your problem.
>>537375362>>most of the Iranian leaders and high echelon people killed outThey were killed in a *sneak attack*.And after that, when Iran put its guard up, the US seemed to have little success sending any more to Allah.For example, that bearded spokesman that bots, shills, and alt-left types memed into an "anti-imperialist" Chad; I very much wanted to see him get killed, along with that Islamo-Marxist (something I thought was a figment of Mark Levin's deranged imagination) pic related Mohammad Marandi, who looks like a pedo.But the US never got either of them.Maybe Marandi wasn't on their radar, but the IRGC spokesman, given his social media prominence, surely was.
>>537375361The F-22 is 1980s tech. Sadly, drones are probably going to replace all aircraft at some point in the near future.
>>537376471>For example, that bearded spokesman that bots, shills, and alt-left types memed into an "anti-imperialist" ChadPic related, specifically. The fact that he's still breathing air is embarrassing.
>>537375879>e US and israel were able to strike deep into iranian territory without irans sams being able to do anything to stop it.Were they, though? My understanding is they relied heavily on stand-off munitions, like Tomahawk cruise missiles
>>537376354You are a retarded faggot memeflag nigger who doesn’t know dick. You also type like some ESL cunt with skin the color of shit and that’s fucking disgusting.
Iran suppisedly got the cost of a shahed down to $7k a pop. Why would anyone without infinite money spend $100 million on a single plane when they could buy 14k drones for that price? Especially if your only goal is to defend your own territory/deter ground invasions
>>537376699Those are amazing arguments. You will need to buy some more F-35s to ensure your safety against my crude weapons, Patsy.
>>537376611Yes the jassms and tonyhawks were running low
>>537376719Corrected for purchase parity it could be as low as $2000. They're doing the work themselves. There's no middle man. Just the raw components, which they also make themselves or get them at cost from China.
>>537376354>estimated 150+ billion in economic damage alone is not my problem>losing the entire upper command structure and critical nuclear facilities due to B2 strikes is also no biggyI didn't state in any part of my post if I support the US israeli strikes on iran btw. The question was if stealth was practical and gave a significant advantage.identification of targets is also a completely different question mr goalpost mover.the fact that the US lost non-stealth aircraft in much greater number than stealth aircraft could be an indication aswell.oh and the JASSM is also designed with low observability in mind and has a ram coating
>>537374379It’s a money grab scheme from MIC, that’s why all the “elite” people like it.Most of F-35 can’t even fly.https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/americas-f-35s-have-big-problem-most-of-them-cant-fly-sa-061726
>>537376754you could also buy chinese. western countries just think the US fighters are the safer bet, because of positive experience with the F16 and F15
>>537376825They don't care. Their whole stategy has taken all of it into account. Four people lining up behind every key figure. Kill one, there's 4 already lined up behind him. Economic damage? You'll be paying for it. Which they've emphasised from the beginning. Which is where the 300B comes from. Don't want to pay? Then it will be paid by shipping going through the straight. Their straight. Civilian deaths. Your problem. You will pay reparations. What can you do? More magic technology? Go ahead. Everything was taken into account. You lose. In every scenario.
>>537374379>>537376719It's really pretty embarrassing how badly the DoD and MIC dropped the ball here.This piece completely called it before the war started:https://www.twz.com/air/u-s-needs-to-be-building-tens-of-thousands-of-shahed-136-clones-right-nowWhy are we using (and losing) expensive MQ9 "Reaper" drones that cost $15-$30 million? Clearly, a kamakazi drone swarm can accomplish the same task, for vastly less money.
>>537374379Usa took over irans airspace in 1 single day with about 3 jets. Iran using the latest chinese tech failed terrible to defend itself they abandoned it and started bombing civilian ships
>>537377277Us has power of sea and distance. Iran could only hurt neighbour countries and will spend the next 100 years trying to pick up the pieces now. I know Twitter accounts are claiming Iran has great victory etc but in reality it has fractured govt, infrastructure is obliterated and if the deal goes through will fall under control of foreign corporations from USA, korea, and Saudis and iran now has to figure out its future political plan which I don't think is so stable contrary to Twitter posts
>>537377033>F-35 is useless don't buy it.>Just spend decades building a vast network of underground bunkers for the entire animal kingdom of ballistic missile variants you've been developing all that time, and also be located next to the strait of Hormuz instead.>You can't lose! Don't waste your money on that American garbage!Why are brown posters like this?
I wouldn't.Pretty sure US doesn't want to sell them or major weapons... and is reducing bases abroad. They have other plans!
>>537377033>Which is where the 300B comes fromIf you read the deal its 300 billion of frozen iran assets that will be used to pay american corporations to buy up iran infrastructure. Iran can save face by claiming its some reparations but in reality its usa and some other nations buying up pieces of iran
>>537377461Because you're a retard in charge of the most powerful army on earth. YET NEVER WON A MODERN WAR.
>>537377539They don't even have 300B frozen. It's around 100B, making the total 400B, a 100 of which is theirs.
>>537377585Did you even read the deal? Iran money is going to western companies not to Iran govt.
>>537374379What color is your F-35? Thought so. You sound poor and like you have fucked zero women. Loser
>>537377615No government on earth ever gets money. Are you dumb? Government manages YOUR money. Same in Iran. They're care takers. Managers. They're not rich. At all. When Lariani was killed his entire estate was valued at around $5k, most of it consisting of a car of around $3k.
>>537376539True, should have just not been a bunch of cucks and destroyed the infrastructure that makes society possible then, like in every real war that's been fought in human history.
>>537377550>never won a modern warThe winners get bombed into dust, the losers buy another Venti frappuccino from Starbucks as they complain about how much more expensive their summer road trip vacation is going to be now that gas prices are so high.Not my problem.
>>537374379war is changing desueveryone's watching Russia-Ukraine and investing heavily in drone warfarehopefully that plus Iran will convince countries that aggression is stupid and will backfire on the attacker, I'm tired of wars and military budgets ballooning and everything else getting cut to pay for it
>>537374945> uhhm, akshually we lost to some mountains and not to IranNot a good flex, bro. (Almost as bad as the German cope of "akshually we lost to cold weather".)
>>537375362> bbut what about muh epic terrorino acterinoes?Yeah, we know about yids and their terrorism. Shut the fuck up already.
>>537377892> bbut muh epic coffee consumption, huh, did you think about that, goy?Pro tip: Iranians have coffee and summer vacations too. And their coffee is better than your shitty goyslop coffee.
>>537377730the constant goalpost moving really isn't helping you mate.>>537377033the iranian government cares alot about the economic damages, thats why they set the monetary compensation as one of the bottom lines for the deal to take place.And not every civilian is alike btw. Losing highly trained personel for your power plants / chemical sector / nuclear sector is alot different than some school kids. money alone can not train nuclear engineers.I think all in all iran played their hand really well, but the original question was still about the effectiveness of stealth aircraft and if there is still a reason to buy the F35 instead of going all out on small disposable alternatives. Also every country that is capable of developing stealth aircraft/munitions is doing so at this very moment.
>>537378979Then all those countries are retarded. Cheap plentiful drones is all that matters. Anything else is a waste of time. Maybe they just want everyone else to know that they're working on stealth as a faint.
>>537379075you can develop both at the same time. and small disposable suicide drones might get stealth upgrades if cheap enogh. the technology is fairly early in development. but they still can't do the job a 5th gen fighter can do at the moment. jumping ship on a technology before the replacement is actually capable of doing said job us not a smart plan brownskin
>>537379308>but they still can't do the job a 5th gen fighterWhat is that job, exactly?
>be foreign gov>buy USA jet fighter >begin using it for real>CENTCOM remotely disables your pilot's HUD symbology and only displays your radar lock warning at a preprogrammed delay >die
>>537379395air superiority, escort missions.the low observability grants a significant range advantage against anything with radar. you can get closer to the enemy than 4th gens for identification / interception. EO/IR is still worse for targeting solutions at longer ranges than radar.
>>537374474Okay /k you might be a bit too smart for here maybe stick to that or sci
>>537377730>Iran isn't getting any money>Because... Uhh... Did you know the government TAXES YOU?!PfffhahahahaHAHAHAHAHAHA holy SHIT memeflag just stop posting for the day.
>>537374474I don't think that's how it works. We got 50+ of the F-35A, which is the base version. F-35B is for short runwaysF-35C is for carriersF-35I is for IsraelF-35J doesn't exist as far as i know
I honestly don't get the hateboner some people have for stealth technology.The Luftwaffe identified that the RAF had a huge advantage because of their early warning radars and tried to find a way around (Ho 229). Lowering the effectiveness of the enemies target identification and aquisition is pretty common in other fields aswell (camo, electronic masking / jamming, reduction of IR signature....)Stealth isn't really a Wunderwaffe, it is just the logical way of reducing radar "vunerability". Did low iq people really fall for the "stealth makes you invisible" of the 80s?
>>537379075>We spent billions on worthless tech... Intentionally!It's a bold strategy, Cotton...
>>537379859i mean corruption is still a thing, but people who focus on one single weapon system as the solution to everything and want to stop investing in other areas are beyond retarded and set themselves up to failure
>>537379840The Ho-229 had nothing to do with stealth technology, it was a proof of concept aircraft put forward by Alexander Lippitsch who believed that the tailless design was the future of aviation which was nonsesne, tailless aircraft have the worst handling qualities of any aircraft layout ever. Besides, in the 1940's search radars could barely detect anything smaller than a formation of a dozen aircraft reliably and everyone already knew that you just fly low if you want to be invisible to it so there was no need to make an expensive tailless, jet powered flying coffin to avoid it. Lippitsch should have been sent to the camps for wasting Reich resources.
>>537374379The F35 was made to use standoff munitions.What concerns me more is that as a non-jewish and non-genocidal buyer, you don't get the software involved and would have to trust the Americans 100%.
>>537380152IIRC one of the Horten brothers claimed they wanted to use some sort of ram coating on later versions. After reading my post again I realise I made it seem like stealth was the primary idea behind the Ho 229 (which is not true), but lower detectability by radar was a sideeffect and noted. Reducing the radar signature isn't the same as stealth. I think the F16 has some signature reducing properties without being stealth
>>537374474>let me tell you about your countryyou meant the f-22
>>537374474lol the top models just get 30 million prize increase to scamm you mutts. you really get jebaited every single time.
>>537375611>i am barely literate on this subject but that will never mean im wrong
now he will be a good goy and debate how this is not so :Dthis is all so fantastic.
>>537380431If you’re going to use a plane for standoff munitions you’re better off with a super fast non stealth jet like the mig-31. It adds more speed and range to hypersonics and you don’t really need stealth if you’re avoiding anti-air range anyways.
