>United States vs. Islamic Republic of Iran>decisive Iranian victory >Russian Federation vs. Ukraine >likely Ukrainian victory; possible Russian pyrrhic victory2/3 of the great powers have been tested and have failed to adapt to 21st century drone warfare.Is this a pattern? Is this the end of the great power as we have come to understand it?There is only one chance left to stop this trend. >People's Republic of China vs. Republic of China>???
>>537406978thing is, they're carrying the big stick but forgot about walking quietly
>>537406978You forgot India getting raped by Pakistan.
>>537406978in what world is a the ukrainian victory likely?
>>537406978>decisive Iranian victory
>>537407295Generally when your capital city is getting bombed in an offensive war it's not a very good sign.
>>537406978You do realize where do much of cheap drone components come from right?
>>537407340keef been burning for 4 years straight m8
>>537407438>4 yearsThat's precisely the issue.
>>537407177None of those gypsy shtitholes is a global power
>>537407338You don't win chess by losing the fewest pieces.
>>537407338>blow up global financial empire>but muh kdMiggers tongue my anus
>>537407420Ukraine is using Japanese technology for their drones.
>>537407477but because a few oil storage tanks in moscow got blown up it's all over for russia?
>>537407502Not even Pakistan?
>>537408663It signifies a problem, yeah. The 4 day blitz against Ukraine has gone so poorly that 4 years later Moscow is receiving regular drone strikes. What's your interest in denying that? Let's stick to reality.
>>537407540>leave alone the judeo financial system!!!!and aside from that US stocks and economy have been way up anyway lel
>>537407338>muttpedia
>>537406978>>likely Ukrainian victory;
>>537406978>likely Ukrainian victoryYeah, highly likely. Two more weeks and Russia runs out of gas.
>>537407338- kikes burning thru their political capital.- the single/final ally hates you now.Start polishing our samson-option, you'll be abandoned and surrounded by niggers.And after you enact your final-act, kikes will lose their victim card globally.
>>537406978YELLOW PERIL FUCK CHYNA FUCK CHINKS
>>537406978China will do nothing and win.
>>537406978>Ukraine vs Russia>Winner: Israel
>>537406978Chinks won't do shit
>>537406978>6,000 Iranians dead, 15,000 injured, 190 launchers destroyed, 155 ships sunk.>"decisive Iranian victory"top kek, find a rope troon.>decisive Iranian victory
Russia's original aim was regime change in Ukraine. That did not work, and they've shifted to taking some territory, I guess? But they have some territory and haven't been satisfied, so they are clearly not meeting their objective, whatever that may be now.Ukraine's aim was survival, and they have consolidated more military and political powers as a result of this war. They can fall short of reclaiming all territory, but surviving to this point is a victory against Russia.Many of you seem to forget Ukraine was not even a stable state 5 years ago, nevermind a regional military power at the forefront of mechanized warfare. Russia got the exact opposite of what they wanted, yes, they lost the war.
>>537408765so, and let me get this perfectly straight here. 4 years of kiev being pummelled to the point of daily blackouts and water supplies being disrupted is fine, but a few oil storage tanks in moscow bring blown up signals imminent defeat for russia? this is the argument you're making? please correct me if i'm wrong, and spare no detail. I wish to understand this fully
>>537407540>blow up global financial empireBased Trump
>>537408663Why is russia doing so poorly in this war that over 4 years after they started it, they can't even defend their capitol? You're telling me that everything is going to plan?
>>537409177Imminent is your word, not mine. It shows Russia has failed as described above. War is about achieving objectives, not simply dying less.
>>537407338>0% of population vs 0% of populationboth of these countries lost more people due to negative birth rates than to this war
>>537409161as i understand it, the war is still ongoing. to say one said won out lost while the conflict is ongoing is premature. on the other hand, trump conceding that iran can keep their nuclear material, and paying iran $300 billion for the privilege of getting their middle eastern bases gaped and like a clear admission of defeat
>>537409161Ukraine also had 40 million people 5 years ago and now it's barely pushing 20 with rolling blockouts for the majority off the day
>>537409177And Russia taking hits in Moscow is incidental to their inability to win the war, but it's a pretty obvious symbol we use as shorthand. When the US lost in Vietnam, DC hadn't been bombed a single time.
>>537409177The US dropped millions of tons more explosives on north Vietnam than the north could drop on the south. Would you say that the US won the Vietnam war?(North vietnam never managed to bomb Washington btw)
>>537409293if you'll recall, tel-aviv and pretty much every american base in the middle east got completely gaped by iranian drones. this isn't a problem exclusive to russia. you guys got your shit pushed in during an offensive war your jewish owners forced you to fight. if you'll read my posts carefully i've made no statements regarding what is or isn't going to plan for russia. i only asked a single question, which is whether you think a few oil storage tanks burning means russia is losing
>>537409326>Russia has failed So why aren’t they being pushed back
>>537409670Did I claim that the US was winning the Iran war dumbshit?
>>537409388Sure, you can say it's premature. But if you follow the data presented to us over time, the trend is that they are very likely to have lost this war. A sudden reverse is possible, but the factors that would support that, like Europe declining to support Ukraine, are unlikely. Hell, we can still find a way to be embroiled with Iran for another 15 years. Trump isn't the only person in politics either.Is it 100% certain and settled that Russia does not take Ukraine? No, but it's a very safe bet.
>>537409326as far as i can tell the conflict is ongoing. seems like you're being a bit premature
>>537409428And the Taliban lived in caves for 20 years.
>>537409672>If Russia has failed to conquer their neighbor, why is their war machine stalled out in its borderlands?Buddy.
>>537409745what data are you even looking at? if it's purely drone strikes on respective capital cities then the ukraine is losing. if it's territorial exchanges then the ukraine is losing. please present your data coherently
>>537409802>a bitI'll grant you that much.
>>537409966will you come back and say sorry in 6 months when russia still hasn't lost?
>>537407338The fact that the US is literally giving up US Hemogry over the region because of 15 US soldiers deaths shows you the US military is not a super power.
>>537407338decisive meant the outcome was actually a question in the first place and since the US was never going to level tehran into a parking lot it basically foreclosed the war to begin with.
>>537409923Russia is not in a war economy nor a declaration of war At most fielding 150,000 assault units With all the rest being security services, support, and logistics Why is Russia not being halted, they aren’t bogged down
>>537410021You're thinking differently. It is not about "losing," as in surrendering. It is about losing in failing to win. Russia can lose for another 15 years for all I care. You are simply a contrarian.
>>537410258>Russia is not in a war economy nor a declaration of warThe US has also not declared war since 1945.
>>537408557Yeah and how much do they cost? Are you idiot to think you can compete with chink industrial output? For every missile and drone strike they would just send hundreds more back at taiwan. Asymmetry doesn't favour underdogs it favours cost and volume.
>>537410323Cool you didn’t answer my question Why is the AfU which is in full war time martial law and forced conscription failing to stop Spetsnaz and volunteer stormtroopers with artillery and missile troops support from advancing???
>>537410120you guys do still have the most formidable air force and navy on the planet, let's not sell it short. you just no longer have the capability to fight land based wars against adversaries like iran and force them to capitulate. even russia isn't having an easy time in their war and they share a land border with the ukraine. the nignited states just isn't logistically capable of mustering the kind of force necessary to subdue iran
>>537407338>MUH K/D RATIOLife isn't a fucking video game you pathetic migger faggot. In war you either accomplish your objectives or you don't. Iran did, the US did not.
>>537409830>Just live like a sandnigger in a cave and you'll "win">What did you win?
>>537410398You're caught on semantics. What new ground have they made? Significant ground? I don't mean the daily back and forth. What new region has Russia broken into? Why do you ignore the territory that Ukraine has taken? Are you expecting Russia to do full mobilization and conscription? Are we waiting until they say the magic words "I declare war" before assessing the on the ground reality? If Russia chooses to fight to the last man as you suggest is on the table, then they will have certainly failed to overthrow the independent Ukrainian state.
>>537409941How about we assess war aims? In 4 years of fighting, the most intense in russian history since WWII, they've failed to topple the government of Ukraine and install a friendly puppet state. Now look, I know that you're retarded and you're going to try and move the goalposts on that war aim, but I'd challenge you to provide a more coherent war aim for the russian side than that. Ukraine's war aim is to maintain their independence from russia. So far, they've managed to do so. By the way, you keep dancing around the question like a coward. Do you think that the US won the war in Vietnam? By every battlefield metric, the US dominated the fight. So that means they won, right?
>>537410455They won total control of their country, which was all they wanted.
>>537407338>you may have put me in checkmate, but i captured more of your pieces therefore I win!
>>5374073383500 camel herders for 300 billion dollars? Sounds like Iran won, not to mention the countless mutts that will die as a result of the declining economy, adjusted rates for healthcare and insurance etc.
>>537410700>Total control is.... Becoming part of the EU>With the majority of them Dead
>>537410284russia will ultimately win its war. i don't think that's really disputable actually. they have more of all the things necessary to fight a war, and their capabilities are constantly growing. even syrsky complains about how russia has more of all the basic stuff like armoured vehicles and manpower. they've also developed quite impressive capabilities in electronic warfare such as the ability to 'stun' starlink satellites, i forget the name of the system they use. the simple fact is that russia is continuing to make progress on the frontline, and no amount of burning oil storage tanks is going to change that. unless a million or more trained, equipped, and motivated men show up ready to fight for the ukraine starting from 6 months ago, as well as a massive arms industry capable of supplying them with all the panoply of modern war fighting, there's no real chance of the ukraine winning
>>537410651>what new ground Zaporozhye gainsKharkov border gains Sumy buffer zone Approaching Pokrovskoye in dnepropetrovsk Konstantinovka basically liberated Krasny Liman soon to be liberated Dobropolye being approached Druzhkovka being approached Slavyansk being routed >Russia will fail if they mobilize I mean let’s just ignore that the Ukrainian population is decimated via death toll and cowardice and refuge Let us ignore the Ukraine as a nation is on life support via Jewish finance by European Union Kalergi cultism Let us ignore that the Russian Economy has adapted to 25,000+ sanctions Could you please tell me in what world does the Ukraine win?
>>537410668>So far, they've managed to do soThey have lost over half their population That is a beyond death point in demographics, what do you mean managed?
>>537410651what's the operational significance of the land the ukraine has reclaimed?
>>537410847>Could you please tell me in what world does the Ukraine win?The one we are living in.
>>537410846>russia is continuing to make progress on the frontlineThey've lost more territory than they've taken in recent monthsrussia is no closer to toppling the government of Ukraine now than they were four years ago. If anything, they're further from their goal today than when they started the invasion in 2022. Did America win the war in Vietnam?
>>537410914What flag still flies in Kiev?
>>537410926Oh I missed the part where he said >”the territory the Ukraine has retaken”Kherson and east Kharkov early war >they lost Kupiansk again That’s it
>>537410945>no argument just statement I’m glad your mask slipped Now I can treat you as a hostile subhuman
>>537410974The Istanbul draft agreement has been universally recognized as real by Turkey, Russia, and the former top negotiator The only people who deny its existence are Kalergi Trotskyite Eurocrats and The Jewish fuhrer Why is that?I’m sure you can see a flag as victory but neglect the death of a nation
In the later days of the siege in Kiev, as Russia withdrew why did massive purges begin to initiate inside the SBU and political bodies?
>>537410668so, and let me get this completely straight. because russia hasn't won yet, they've lost? this is what you're claiming? because as far as i can see, the concoct l conflict is still ongoing. are they winning too slowly? are they not achieving the goals you've set for them on the timetable you've set for them? I don't see what relevance vietnam has here, you're really comparing apples and oranges, for example how many centuries was vietnam an incorporated territory of the US state?
>>537410651Look buddy, it might be difficult to comprehend but nobody fights total wars anymore since 1945 except arguably Vietnam. That means Russia realizes they gain nothing by monthly zerg rush into Ukraine to capture all of it as they did for four years against my country because they were facing extinction. So, yeah it might look like they're not capturing Ukraine, and yeah that's cause they're not fighting a total war, but Ukraine indeed is. Meanwhile, you rotated your entire carrier fleet in and out of the region and they were afraid of a handful of plastic drones so you had to fly long distance sorties with air refueling over Iraq. And then Iran hit your tankers, bases, aircraft in the air and on the ground, and leveled Israel, so you surrendered and paid damages. I don't see Russia needing to surrender any time soon cause Ukraine is a slavic shit hole without the means to hurt or neutralize Russia, but Iran is an ancient culture with one of the most advanced missile technologies in the world and the most impenetrable geostrategic position in the world making their offensive forces basically invulnerable, even to nuclear attacks, cause they planned and built your total humiliation for forty years. And then they did.So please take your butthurt attitude where it belongs, the white house.
>>537411111Yes, I do see Ukrainian independence as a sign of continued Ukrainian independence. That's just because I'm not a drooling retard like you are
You faggots spam one glorious night where a couple drones bombed south east Moscow, but you ignore the cemeteries and the bodies You can’t give reasons for victory just visualized propaganda
>>537411111Checked and true. Not worth your time arguing with zogbots and yurolibs, however.
>>537411217What Ukrainians gained independence NAFO fag?The dead?The cowards?The new Russians who aren’t Ukrainian?
>>537409730he is giving an example that even great empires likes US/Israel with top technological edge struggled atm with new drone tactics
>>537411198russia has lost because they can no longer realistically achieve their war aims. Even if they spend another 2 million russian lives to finish clawing the rest of Luhansk Donetsk Zaporizhzhia and Crimea oblasts from Ukraine, they'll still have failed in their war goals. I bring up Vietnam because you keep saying that the only thing that matters in war is destruction, and that the winner of a war is the side that blows up the most stuff. If that were true, you'd obviously agree that the United States won Vietnam decisively. Basically, I'm exposing you as being entirely full of shit
>>537411391They are quite literally achieving their war aims moron The Ukrainian population is halved, any man willing to take up a gun to attempt genocide or fight does not live long The Ukrainian industry is destroyed Your Jewish finance doesn’t triumph universal truth
>>537411312Ukraine has retained its independence from russia, their war aim since the full scale invasion in 2022.
>>537411460What independence for what Ukrainians?The DEAD?The COWARDS?The NEW RUSSIANS?What fucking Ukrainians nafo troon
>>537411457If Ukrainian industry were destroyed, then how come moscow keeps getting bombed? So Ukraine is in fact still independent, and still capable of producing the weapons needed to keep killing russians. Doesn't seem like they've lost to me.
>>537411529>then hurr how does durr moscow keep getting bombed European Semitic finance You can keep bringing up that shimmering propaganda, it doesn’t neglect the BODIES the GRAVES the DEATH of a nation It doesn’t neglect that Russia has not stopped ADVANCING
>>537410946actually russia still has a net positive in territorial exchange, the margin is slimmer than last year but it's positive, mapping projects like amk and suriyak back that up. in any case, territorial exchange is not a reliable metric for who's winning, realistically speaking one could do nothing but lose ground in a war of this kind and still come out the victor. german territory was never occupied in ww1 but they still lost. if you're even going to assess this based on who conquers what dirt you need to assess the operational significance of that dirt. is it a built up urban centre with a pre war population exceeding 100k like konstantinovka? or is it literally empty fields like the territory the ukraine is reclaiming most recently? you can harp on about vietnam all you want, it's not going to change the reality of the outcome here
>>537406978That’s because US and Russia couldn’t out cheap-drone-spam Iran and Ukraine. China meanwhile has the highest drone spamming production capability in the world
>>537411634Hey, you're starting to get it! War isn't always about statistics or lines on a map. It's about politics. Based on that, russia has failed to achieve it's war aims, and at present that seems unlikely to change no matter how many russians they push into the drone-grinder.
>>537411814>heh checkmate… Russia failed its objective now that Ukraine is effectively a dead nation Again please refute the following arguments or fuck off >no matter how many Russians More hohols have died, why do NAFO fags think Russia uses human waves
>>537411932You haven't made any arguments John from Nebraska oblast. You're just seething about the fact that Ukraine still exists despite all your dead friends
>>537412011>you haven’t made any argumentsWhat Ukrainians gained independence Was it the DEAD?The COWARDS?The NEW RUSSIANS? Please answer what fucking Ukrainians
>>537411391okay let's go ahead and dissect this. >russia can no longer achieve their war aimsa fascinating claim. you must have access to top secret russian military industrial information to assert it so confidently. are there any other russian state secrets you fag reveal to us?>another 2 million lives for 4 oblastsi'm a little confused here. do you think the russians have already lost 2 million KIA? there's about 200k 'confirmed' through mediazona and that's the most 'reliable' dataset we have available. Additionally, the loss of these territories in the fullness of their legal borders would be a catastrophe for the ukrainian state, it would be literally an existential crisis if the russians were able to conquer and consolidate territorial gains on the right bank of the dniepr, furthermore it wouldn't take 2 million KIA, and that wouldn't even be the full extent of the territory russia would be able to take. on the topic of regime change in the ukraine i need you to understand that the TCC, that is the guys responsible for ensuring the assault forces have fresh bodies to throw at the russian lines, are more hated in the ukraine than the russians are. the ukraine is a state with deepening internal divisions and they're only getting worse. >you keep saying blah blah blahnow you're just putting words in my mouth. you'll have to quote me or you're just full of shit
>>537412085>What Ukrainians gained independenceYour question makes no sense. Is this some sort of russian to English translation problem? Ukraine is a sovereign nation. They were an independent country when russia invaded in 2022, and they're an independent country today. They've successfully maintained their independence from russia despite the countless russian men who have been killed and maimed trying to subjugate them. How many of your friends have died on the front line this week? Thousands already?
>>537412452What Ukrainians are left retard
>>537411529those drones are mostly manufactured in europe with final assembly happening in the ukraine. eurofags think this sleight of hand fools people. i guess it works on you. next you'll probably tell me that russia gets all its drones from iran
>>537411814okay now we're back to >russia is winning too slowly
>>537412401Yep, you got me, I'm actually a KGB double agent. I'm basing my info on secret Kremlin dossiers, not trend analysis of the last 4 years of war indicating that russia doesn't have the strength to achieve their war aims. russia has already sustained approximately 1.2-1.5 million casualties since the full scale invasion in 2022, and hasn't even managed to fully occupy any of their formally annexed oblasts except for Crimea. I'm saying that even if russia poured another 2 million men into the frontline, it seems unlikely that they'd manage to achieve much more.
>>537412723(((ISW))) aren’t very reliable >even if Russia still advances, so which is it Is Russia unable to achieve her goals or is Russia advancing
>>537408819I look like this.
>>537406978Going to answer to you again. If war truly breaks out there won't be any invasion. Instead it would be a war of attrition. who can indure who can inflict more pain and who has more time. When you compare this twos economy geography and resources it becomes obvious who will fold first.
>>537410847>ambiguous "gains">gains>gains>two kilometer buffer zone that you can't even see on the map>basically>soon>being approached>being routedThe absolute state or Russia's "winning" lel
>>537412845How about this, John from Nebraska oblast, I'll happily admit that Ukraine is defeated when russia manages to take Kiev and install a puppet government to administer the country. Until that happens, my position is that russia has failed to achieve its objective, and it seems unlikely at this point that it will. In the meantime, good luck dodging all those drones headed your way. They'll keep coming for you and your friends until a peace deal is made.
>>537407338>we failed to achieve any of our strategic objectives and we're going to massively enrich Iran, but we killed more civilians, so we won!
>>537413287>In the meantime, good luck dodging all those drones headed your way. They'll keep coming for you and your friends until a peace deal is made.Im going to be honest with you the same applies to ukrainians. This war can't go for long. It might end up with huge russian damage and it would benefit west but at the cost of huge toll of ukrainians demographics that it needs for its future.
>>537412723consider that the vast bulk of the russian effort has been in donetsk oblast, i think most estimates have it that 70% of the russian effort has been concentrated there, specifically in the area of the major fortified industrial cities ranging from bakhmut, to toretsk, to konstantinovka, slavyansk and kramatorsk, which the ukraine spent 8 years between 2014 and 2022 fortifying. consider that this belt of fortifications is now in the process of either being stormed in the case of konstantinovka, or being encircled, slavyansk and kramatorsk. it's unlikely to be quick or easy, but the writing is on the wall as far as these locations. consider also that the vast bulk of the ukraine's forces have also been committed here. if you were to look at a heatmap of urban density and industry in the ukraine, you'd see that places like donetsk and lugansk are the most heavily built up and densely populated, outside of those territories your density plummets, you find there's a lot of open fields, forests, and small villages, with large cities sitting like islands in an ocean, rather than the dense network of urban centres you find in donbass. when, not if, the russians clear these fortified towns, they'll have a lot more freedom to commit to other axes. your analysis is fine if you assume all warfare is linear and that an adversary must occupy the opposing capital to win, but that's not how reality works. now unless you expect russia to collapse in 6-12 months maybe you should check back after that time has elapsed and see what the conflict looks like. you may be surprised
>>537413264show flag kike
>>537413287>i walk 600 metres, still walking. i want to walk 1200 metres. i have failed to walk 1200 metres. turn around and walk home
>>537407338kekmeanwhile Russia's 100k casualtiesIf China goes to war, they will lose millions.
>>537414135wars aren't decided by CoD k:d ratios
>>537414682Yes they are, you're not a government. If thousands of your people die, you fucking lost because that was your friends and family, and now your local economy is fucked from all the destruction. Iranians fled their country, the Iranian people lost.
>>537415308lmfao $300 billion in reparations because you lost you obese nigger
>>537406978>likely Ukrainian victory;Nafojeets...
