Without provoking a thread war, I'm really curious why the Ukraine national identity is seen as "illegitimate".When is a national identity illegitimate? When is it legitimate?How come Ukrainian national identity is illegitimate but say for example Slovakian is legitimate?
>>537593979it belongs to the jews.
I believe all slavic national identities to be illegitimate.
>no language>no culture>no history>no achievementsSounds illigitimate. Although don't really care about it. Not saying they should cease to exist as a country.
>>537594185Well this thread isnt about you.There is obviously a strong focus on denouncing Ukraine as a 'fake' and illegitimate national identity, and I'm asking for that to be rationalized in perspective to other national identities in Europe (and the world).
>>537594225>no language>no culture>no history>no achievementsSo shouldnt this be true to Belarus as well? Or Estonia, or Slovakia etc?
>>537593979The area colored yellow is "Ukrainian" identity, the problem is they are claiming the area colored aswell wich is Russian lands
>>537594446Yes
Ukraine, Russia and Belarus all hail from Kyivan Rus. But Russians want to hog that identity all to themselves because uhh the Eastern Roman Emperor allegedly gave them the "I rule all of Eastern Orthodoxy" hat-crown or something.
>>537593979Ukrainian "national identity" were made up by bolshevik kikes
>>537593979>but say for example Slovakian is legitimate?It's not
>>537594446Yeah, for Belarus. Estonia does have their language and history. Don't know about Slovakia.
>>537593979Ukrainian national identity could be legitimate if it wasn't centered around larping as Nazis while fighting for Jews who want to ethnically replace the war dead with infinity refugees asap
>>537593979>How come Ukrainian national identity is illegitimateResearch The 'Kievian Rus' and get back to us.The Ukraine war has been going on for centuries; this is just the latest chapter.
>>537595017Ok so according to what exactly?What are the rules for a national identity to exist?
>>537595199There are no rules. Its subjective. You are free to accept or deny any identity you see as real or fake.
>>537595122OP is the nafotranny who spent dozens of hours crosschecking posts on archives trying to piece together alleged "kremlin shills" He's not honest at all in his inquiry
>>537595113Estonian language and people are copy-paste of FInland with a few minor tweak, the same as Ukraine and Russia, yet you say an Estonian national identity has the right to exist?
>>537593979>How come Ukrainian national identity is illegitimate but say for example Slovakian is legitimate?Unlike Hohols, we are human beings
>>537595280What if im sincere tho? Im genuinely curious. It's not like I can ask this question on Reddit is it? There I would absolutely only get one-sided answers.
>>537595199>What are the rules for a national identity to exist?>>537595270Language, Culture, Genetics, History.Blood and Soil, anon.Blood and Soil.
>>537595293This can be easily disputed.
>>537595270So "might makes right"?
>>537594225Doesnt fucking matter, all foursMurrica started as 13 bumbfuck colonial states coming from England You make people recognize your legitimacy
>>537595426Why does Ukraine lack these qualifications but other states does not? Again back to the perspective with Slovakia and Belarus and Latvia for example.
>>537594530>Data from the 2001 censusdo you have anything newer or more relevant to the current day?
>>537593979not really illegitimate, just seems like russia with extra steps. you could say that about a lot of former soviet states really.
>>537595392>Im genuinely curious.Quick answer.What if the Ukies ARE the russians. The Rus.Then, maybe, you might start asking who the fuck are the people living in the belt between Moscow and St. Petersburg. Not telling, just suggesting.
>>537595476t. exp*t z Brna
>>537595646>not really illegitimate, just seems like russia with extra steps. Well couldnt you say that about Norway as well?Why arent they just Swedes? From an outsider it seems like an unecessary country since we are of the same ethnicity and largely the same language, near identitcal culture and history.
>>537595270Then how are the Ukrainian's illegimate? You make no sense Ivan. I think you are mad that Ukraine does in fact have its own language, its own people, its own shitty food, and their own directives. Russia is mad bc they want the resource-rich land of the Donbas, they use that stupid historicist argument about Kiev and the Orthodox to support their claim. Fact remains Russia has crappy soldiers and is a paper tiger
>>537595565>You make people recognize your legitimacyBased Victor Charles.This post is completely true.
>>537595821Dont try to ragebait. I want this to be an objective discussion because I am trying to learn from the other side and get a different perspective.
>>537595818i agree, norway should do an SMO on sweden.
>>537595919Jokes aside, can you at least rationalize your position?
>>537595887My answer wasn't satirical. On the claim that identities are subjective, if that is truly the position that one takes, should end the discussion there. Then of course, Ukraine can do what it wants. But thats not really your question, was it? You asked for reasons why Ukraine is an illegimate identity compared to Russia. I say, it is not, but not for the reductionist reasons stated by others. Ukraine has a historical grounding, just like Russia, like every other nation-state that arose out of political transformation; Ukraine is not exempt from participating in World History. My grandparents were from Urman. they were not Jews, they did not know any Jews, they were closer to the Poles culturally. Ukraine is its own place with its own history
>>537593979Technically Ukraine /is/ a fake nation just like Texas in America or Bavaria in Germany, however Russia as an identity was so unpopular that everyone grabbed whatever he had at hand and ran with it "Ukranian? What is that? Don't know, don't care. Slava Ukraini." The only reason for an identity inside Russia within post-soviet Russias borders was not being russian anymore. It's so disliked that russian women have the highest abortion rates, hate russian men, russians emigrate when they can...
>>537593979I'm not anti-Ukraine. I'm anti this all being entirely the fault of Russia.
Not our problem, actually being involved is super fucking dangerous for us but we have no choice because our leaders are retarded ass Boomers
Your war is fake and gay. Jewtin and jewinsky both want dead slavs.
>>537593979National identity is a social construct. They can have a national identity and still deserve death for being subhuman.They recently tried to use sea drones against Romania's port-city Constanta. The place where the drifting drones were found was extremely close to the warehouses full of nitrate-based fertilizer. If those drones would've made it to the intended targets instead of getting caught in the oil-spill floating barriers, a Beirut-like explosion would've happened, wiping out at least half of the city - the most densely populated area.I don't care what they identify as. I just want to see them all dead.
>>537595821>Then how are the Ukrainian's illegimate?To you they are. To me they aren't. That's the whole point. Its subjective.
>>537593979>Without provoking a thread war, I'm really curious why the Ukraine national identity is seen as "illegitimate".Its russophobic and nazism not to be occupied and russified by russians.
>>537597653I'm not saying it's not a construct, but that doesn't necessarily presuppose illegitimacy. To a certain extent, the world as a whole acknowledges national identity to be true, in a purely technical and categorical way. Thus, there is an air of legitimacy nonetheless. Your point still stands though for the reasons we agree upon>>537598531I understand. But if I were to suggest you'd be more aligned with Russian culture, whether or not you choose to self-identify under any flag. So yes I see there is a subjective element to the philosophical essence of "identity" but in the context of national security, it's not all relative. However paradoxically, you are still right.
>>537593979they could have had a fine national identity, if they weren't ethnically cleansing the Donbas region since 2014, and provoking Russia into an existential crisis for no reason>>537594530also this (more or less)>magic dirt theory is everywhere today
>>537593979I don't have problem with their identiy, I just consider them a garbage nation
>>537593979>Without provoking a thread war, I'm really curious why the Ukraine national identity is seen as "illegitimate".because it was all invented by the bolsheviks, who sought to take Russia down and use it for their own means
>>537598970>if they weren't ethnically cleansing the Donbas region since 2014t. john smith from ohio oblast
>>537594778you dumb nigger this would be like saying New England is akshually its own country and totally not an integral founding portion of the country
>>537597653It's kinda crazy how ukraine alienated all of its allies in the recent year. They really got cocky and they think that they can rule the whole region. It's like they don't only want to fight russia,but also hungary, poland, romania, and recently belarus
>>537595565>You make people recognize your legitimacyUkrainians failed to do that and complied with their Jewish tyrant.
>>537599172What exactly makes Ukraine a New England? Why isn't Russia a New England?
>>537595644>do you have anything newer or more relevant to the current day?>Do you have anything after Ukraine started to try to wipe out Russian speaking language areas
>>537594778What the fuck is a "Kyivan" Rus?https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sviatoslav_I
>>537593979I don't like the way they spell Kiev. That's it. Kyiv looks and sounds worse.
>>537593979Because Ruski are uncapable of winning unless it’s retreating while burning Moscow, and they need to belittle their opponent to not die of seethe.
>>537593979They are terrorists and nazis. That is why it is illegitimate and Russia will put an end to this shit.
>>537602990learn some history, retard
>>537603264I posted some history, chinlet. Read it. It's about the first ruler of Kievan Rus with a name of Slavic origin. He conquered Khazaria and helped expand Rus lands around Eastern Europe.
>>537594778>Kyivan Rusfucking illiterate hohol
Ukraine's borders being specifically chosen by dudes in suits for geopolitical reasons is not so different to borders being redrawn because of the tribal migration of the Lombards, causing similar changes.Geopolitical reasons for arbitrarily deciding the border goes here instead of there used to mean Hunnic invasion had forced the decision and now it means something slightly different, people appear to think one is legitimate and the other not, maybe it's just the passage of time.
>>537603072You can choose the middle ground and spell it "Kijów". The Polish spelling definitely looks the best.
>>537603475>Using Latin script for Slavic>Using 10 billion characters to write words that can be spelt in just 2 with Cyrillic script
>>537596023i think the only thing that separates them as a people is a flag. culturally they are the same.
>>537603475Hohols are fucking illiterate scam. The forst ever written book in cyrillics is called The Tale of Igor's Campaign, check it out, written in Kievan Rus. It is in fucking Russian. I can understand it better than i understand Ukrainian. It say Igor, not Ihor, Vladimir and not Volodimir, plus the whole fucking grammar is Russian. Hohols are illiterate scum. They never even had a book. They should be deported the fuck out of there somewhere to Siberia where they culturally belong.
>>537603368and what, you wonder when the khazars are trying to retake the place and kill all the slavs there?
>>537603756this is just more evidence that hohol dialect is just a dialect of Russian and nothing more
>>537603475
>>537604085Ukrainian to Russian is what ebonics is to English. Like the ghetto hood speak.
>>537603644But then, if thats the only requirement, wouldnt that make half of Europes states also "illlegitimate"?Czechs and Slovaks ara culturally the same, just different flags.Swedes and Norwegians are culturally the same, just different flags.Croats and Serbs are culturally the same, just different flags.Belarusian and Russians are culturally the same, just different flags.The list goes on.If Ukraine is an illegitimate national identity because its culture mirrors its neighbour, why arent more states considered illegitimate, and why should we call them that based solely on this criteria?
>>537593979ukraine's national identity is rooted in liberalism, liberalism must be eradicated and subhumans must have their rights abolished forever
>>537603641cyrillic is nigger-tier. real people use latin
>>537604334their national identity is rooted in whatever the current thing is
>>537593979lolMuh reasons!
>>537604227yesghetto nigger isnt its own languageneither is yankeeneither is southerndrawl
>>537604307>wouldnt that make half of Europes states also "illlegitimate"?yes.
>>537604505of course, its easier to control themespecially once you make them become members of the EU and then override their sovereignty
>>537604337Cyrillic was specifically created, designed, and purpose built for Slavic language. Latin was not. Using Latin script for Slavic language is pigheaded retard-tier.
>>537604481Yeah, so its kind of a village hood dialect. It sounds funny as shit and sort of silly. Which is why w can't take them seriously.
>>537594225we ruled over hohols much longer than you ever did, they are clearly separate people from you and us.
>>537594530Theres a lot of "russian" there to the east of Romania, nigger.Tatars owned that part, tatars got genocided by Muscovites.Mabye think about investing in some rope.
>>537593979I don't care about a bunch of slavs, its that simple. Slavic people are subhuman filth.
>>537593979...Is Stockholm muslim a legitimate national identity now? Should you tolerate their seccession wherein they take the city and more?This shit is more complex than even you allude to, and make no mistake: I do not have a very strong opinion on the matter of Ukraine's national identity beyond observing that even if it didn't exist before the fires of war are more than sufficient forge it into being.The real question is why you think this is the relevant question, as wars are simply not about such theatrical sideshows.Ukraine knew it forced Russia into action when it shut off the water to Crimea some time before the war in example, whether they had a right to do so or not is utterly irrelevant; if you hit someone, expect to be hit back.Same lesson as in Gaza.
Putin wants Ukraine back in the Soviet Union. He wants to re-form the USSR. I hope he does!
>>537593979>why the Ukraine national identity is seen as "illegitimate".they are russians in denial, which is worse than being russian
>>537604800I'm not arguing the legitimacy of the war. I was curious about the argument that Ukraine was an illegitimate national identity, which I am sure you would agree has been said a lot on /pol/I did not start this thread trying to convince anyone, I was merely curious and wanted to learn what the arguments and rationale were. I give pushback when arguments are presented because I want to test their reasoning and see the logic.And yes if hundreds of anons started saying Stockholm muslims were a legitimate national identity I would absolutely make a thread and want them to rationalize this, but you were just being silly
>>537593979>I'm really curious why the Ukraine national identity is seen as "illegitimate".The shitlib cancer international jews spearheaded by the CIA and MI6 created performative "nationalists" to provoke Russia into a war. Russian's are still caught up in their "Great War" nonsense where they portray themselves as heroes, when really they were a bunch of communist jew slaves. All of the most egregious vile evil jews on Earth are sending every last Ukrainian to his death because they could care less about the White Europeans. Sending White Europeans to their deaths against a foreign enemy is a positive outcome from their perspective. You are not and can not be a nationalist when you're fighting for the international jews who have de-nationalized and destroyed every Aryan living space on Earth with unwanted alien niggers.
JEWKRAINE has the same problem the JEWSA has. A fake performative exploitative nationalism that takes the domestic enemies of the jews and sends them to die fighting the international enemies of the jews.
>>537593979>why the Ukraine national identity is seen as "illegitimate"Can you tell me where the legitimate nationalism is? The entire country is run by jews sending Aryans to their deaths.
>>537597653>wiping out at least half of the city - the most densely populated area.I'm just saying , it would have been for the better. Then probably nuke Bucharest sector 1,2,3,5 just for funnziez
>>537595495only a child does not understand how might makes right
>>537593979Cargo CultismIts hard to take nation seriously when they worship slop.
>>537604813>He wants to re-form the USSR.pnac tier
>>537605058True, i was being silly with that first bit.Fair enough that you want to try to understand these people but i do touch on that; they are people that are usually unable to destinguish between language's prescriptive and descriptive versions and default to the former rather than realising the latter is near universal, leading to a lot of primitive magical reasoning.And that's where the moralistic theatre slots in.
>>537604813>>537605894I'm sure he wants his country to be as powerful as he can make it. Unlike the Anglosphere and Europe, which intentionally destroys its national power so the jews can continue leeching everything they can out of Aryans. The fundamental struggle for the jewish supremacists is how to demoralize the White goyims so we don't domestically revolt but to also trick us into sigining up to go to war with anyone the jews don't like internationally.
Maybe because West Ukraine be like SLAVA UKRAINI and KILL ZIGGERS, while the East Ukraine be like:
>>537605948
>>537606528Have a pay.
>>537605058>Ukraine was an illegitimate national identityEvery country the jews control has no legitimate national identity, except Israel. The jews install themselves as the intelligentsia and ship the native population off to die to advance their jewish quest for world domination while they domestically judaize the country.
>>537603072You pick sides much in the same way a woman would
>>537593979it was fake and made up to provoke war with russia
>>537606617Yeah, all of the worst international jews who are de-nationalizing every White European living space on Earth are endorsing skin suiting Ukrainians as "nazis" and shipping them off to get killed by Russians.
Performative nationalism run by hostile anti-White anti-Christian jew interlopers isn't enough.
>>537606956Seems to me that our inept feminist gay nigger worshiping IC tried to stand up a judaized White ISIS, the way they did with the Arabs. Wherein they create a fanatical fighting force but they re-direct into fighting the enemies of the jews. Also revealing how all of our democratic socialist jew slave governments are all to happy to put the symbols of NS Germany onto Ukrainians. When you're fighting for democratic socialist demonkike György Schwartz, you're not fighting for nationalism. You're fighting for the international jew and its casino of smoke and mirrors fake and gay international stock exchange. Making the jews who are backing Urkaine more powerful will not make any country anywhere on Earth more nationalist, except for Israel. The jews want us to fight for their nationalism in Israel and their international money power world wide while they domestically denationalize our countries and ruin our economy. Fuck these jews. The Ukrainians should overthrow their jewish government.
suddenly rabbi Soros is concerned about the sovereignty of states, lmao
>>537593979That's really simple. We think that if it was Russia who conquered and secured those lands, founded and populated and industrialized those cities - you can't use all that without asking really nice. So now they are in process of desecuring, depopulating and deindustrializing - and we are going to see how glorious and sovereign their nation will be without using what they got handed on a plate.
>>537593979>I'm really curious why the Ukraine national identity is seen as "illegitimate"Because they took the cookies.
>>537594315>I'm asking for that to be rationalizedThey willingly became a pawn in NATO's attempt to weaken Russia.They allowed the CIA to bring Georgian mercenaries to shoot at both protesters and police in the Maidan square.
>>537607383>ameritard word saladUkrainians are based
>>537595199>What are the rules for a national identity to exist?The will and ability to preserve sovereignty.The moment you become a vassal, you stop being a nation.
>>537595392>Im genuinely curious."Ukraine is increasingly a country held together, behind the military lines, by women.""They are running civil society organisations, advocating for their country abroad and becoming activists.""using her fluent English to advocate for Ukraine""Unlike men of the same age, who are generally barred from leaving the country, millennial women can choose to stay or leave Ukraine; or whether or not to volunteer for the army. Such decisions can be accompanied by agonising guilt.""It is a generation of women whose lives are accompanied by grief as their peers are killed in combat. Organising funerals and making sure their own wills are in order, are all-too common facets of life for Ukrainian millennials.""As she sips tea in a gleaming-white office in Kyiv, a fortnight before staging a science and tech conference""We sit here and drink tea in our nice office but we still have to remember that this office was bombed in December, and we are only borrowing it, because our own office was bombed a month ago."«Before 2013, she was cycling round Africa, partying in Italy, and not thinking very much about the future. The pivot to a career of public service and activism to help shape Ukraine’s future was the Maidan revolution and her rage at “seeing how the police were beating up students”.»"Millennial women are blooming in a way – we are leading communities, becoming politicians, leading NGOs, becoming activists and being the voices of Ukraine in the international arena because educated millennial women know English, and men are not allowed to go abroad." - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/oct/30/ukraine-women-wartime-wives-mothers-fighters-activists
>>537608872Is Romania less of a nation than Greece since we were Ottoman vassals while Greece was an Ottoman province?
>>537595595>Why does Ukraine lack these qualifications but other states does not?Ukraine forfeited any claim to statehood when they sold their country to the "New York Intellectuals".
>>537608976That was a doomer read.
>>537597653>They recently tried to use sea drones against Romania's port-city Constanta.And you deserved it, for sucking on that big firefly's dick.Who do you think becomes cannon fodder, the moment the empire moves the conflict to Moldova?
>>537599109>>if they weren't ethnically cleansing the Donbas region since 2014>t. john smith from ohio oblastEducate yourself, Abdul: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Donbas
>>537593979>NAFO's don't know basic nationalist political theory and clearly come from a separate educational lineage to /pol/lites lolThe problem ultimately comes down to the Russian Slavs coming from Kievan Rus in Ukraine. So you're dealing with an ancestral homeland of the Russians. You're also dealing with an ancestral homeland of basically all Aryan descendant Whites too. So you have this massive federal empire but you don't have your home town.
>>537609299The only reason I will fight Russia is for my own glory. I'd prefer Iran as an enemy because they are now the best.If Moldova is a casus belli, thank you Moldova... I guess.
>>537608841>Ukrainians are basedCannon fodder is never based, Bubba.
>>537609429shitskins love russia>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_DonbasYup proves my point. Learn eng next time you stupid shitskin
>>537609033>Is Romania less of a nation than Greece since we were Ottoman vassals while Greece was an Ottoman province?Wait, you really think that the three enslaved Romanian principates were somehow a nation - before liberating themselves from Ottoman rule?How stupid are you, Vasile?
>>537593979Ukrainian nation exists but modern Ukraine is multi-ethnic state with Hungarian, Bulgarian, russian, rusyn, and moldovan minorities. Ukrainians initially only make half of population but pretend they're 100% of the country
>>537593979Carney and his shitlib party want Ukraine to win, so naturally I want Ukraine to lose because Ukraine losing means Liberals in Canada losing too.
>>537594530>the US is England, here's the proof
>>537609776You didn't answer my question and instead you answered with another question.I think both Romanians and Greeks are nations of people regardless the facts that the Romanian Principalities were vassals to the Porte while Greece was incorporated in the Empire.
THEY. ARE. A. RUSSIAN. STATE. HOHOL.
>>537593979You're asking the wrong question. I'm all for ukraine defending itself when attacked. I just don't want my taxes supporting it. We've been totally fucked financially by all the help we've given them.
>>537610009>You didn't answer my questionYour embarrassing question was obviously retarded, because it conflated one historical period with another, on purpose.And now you double down on your stupid take, like a fucking gypsy.
ukraine is just as legitimate as the lada federation
>>537595122This>>537595280Yeah.Honestly, the NAFO attempt to infiltrate and influence the nationalistic far-white-right is honestly a blunder worth studying. A lot of it comes down to anti's genuinely not understanding the nature of this racial new right. ALL of these guys understand racial anthropology and the basic history of all kinds of lineages. They generally have excellent geographical knowledge and mental maps of different timelines.They also forget that when the right sector coup happened, all pro-Whites were watching that shit like hawks because you saw far rightists actually attempting to take NATO weapons and turn them on NATO, with some suggesting taking the Russian side of the civil war etc.It was during the Arab Spring and basically all White Nationalists assumed they were going to have to be in some kind of civil war or paramilitary movement because there were seemingly no legal options possible. There was enough guys going to Ukraine for countries to panic and intercept the far right volunteers going there. Ultimately it was all very personal and fucking complex for the Slavs and the Westerners typically saw this a real brothers war risk. Ukrs will insist that Russia is mostly non-Whites and that's who they would be fighting.NAFOs basically don't understand that they automatically prove they are foreign to the movement when they insist there was no civil war, because basically ALL pro-White guys were thinking about going there despite the gambit risk of becoming a white isis. We specifically remember the arguments among ourselves about which side to join etc. Brexit and Trump changed a lot of stuff because it showed that there was a legal option. Prior to the Ukraine coup, we had stuff like italian sci fi author white nationalists going on lone wolf rampages or Brievik types attacking the norwegian labour youth camp and stuff.What's also not organic is how the NAFOs post gore and stuff whereas WNs think the whole thing is really tragic
>>537610336You're angry. Calm down and let's talk.
>>537595122This>>537595280Yeah.Honestly, the NAFO attempt to infiltrate and influence the nationalistic far-white-right is honestly a blunder worth studying.A lot of it comes down to anti's genuinely not understanding the nature of this racial new right. ALL of these guys understand racial anthropology and the basic history of all kinds of lineages. They generally have excellent geographical knowledge and mental maps of different timelines.They also forget that when the right sector coup happened, all pro-Whites were watching that shit like hawks because you saw far rightists actually attempting to take NATO weapons and turn them on NATO, with some suggesting taking the Russian side of the civil war etc.It was during the Arab Spring and basically all White Nationalists assumed they were going to have to be in some kind of civil war or paramilitary movement because there were seemingly no legal options possible.There was enough guys going to Ukraine for countries to panic and intercept the far right volunteers going there. Ultimately it was all very personal and fucking complex for the Slavs and the Westerners typically saw this a real brothers war risk. Ukrs will insist that Russia is mostly non-Whites and that's who they would be fighting.NAFOs basically don't understand that they automatically prove they are foreign to the movement when they insist there was no civil war, because basically ALL pro-White guys were thinking about going there despite the gambit risk of becoming a white isis. We specifically remember the arguments among ourselves about which side to join etc. Brexit and Trump changed a lot of stuff because it showed that there was a legal option.Prior to the Ukraine coup, we had stuff like italian sci fi author white nationalists going on lone wolf rampages or Brievik types attacking the norwegian labour youth camp and stuff.What's also not organic is how the NAFOs post gore and stuff whereas WNs think the whole thing is really tragic
>>537595392The strongest racial case for Ukraine is a case for Russian Ukraine or Russia without the vast empire. The problem with it's national concept is that the racial nation is having a civil war. The West side was cynically created by Jews, the EU and the USA. The Ukrainian nationalists also were playing machiavellian games knowingly. NATO was obviously going to try and use them, and the Russian Federation is it's own brand of leftism and multiculturalism. There is also a really vicious recent history and blood memory about fighting the communists and a lot of the pro Russia side Ukrainians are into Soviet Chic which really annoys people. To an extent the Soviet Union was seen as a kind of nationalist and patriotic movement with heavily Jewish and Trotskyist elements driven to the USA. The Nazis as liberators clashes where too as the Germans are quite a persistent and dangerous enemy. For Western Whites, Nazis also have a Trojan kind of element to them and thus they symbolise an escape from guilt as well as a defiant statement of rebellion. That said, one of the early Soviet punk bands was called "Hitler".
>>537595392The strongest racial case for Ukraine is a case for Russian Ukraine or Russia without the vast empire.The problem with it's national concept is that the racial nation is having a civil war.The West side was cynically created by Jews, the EU and the USA. The Ukrainian nationalists also were playing machiavellian games knowingly. NATO was obviously going to try and use them, and the Russian Federation is it's own brand of leftism and multiculturalism. There is also a really vicious recent history and blood memory about fighting the communists and a lot of the pro Russia side Ukrainians are into Soviet Chic which really annoys people. To an extent the Soviet Union was seen as a kind of nationalist and patriotic movement with heavily Jewish and Trotskyist elements driven to the USA. The Nazis as liberators clashes where too as the Germans are quite a persistent and dangerous enemy.For Western Whites, Nazis also have a Trojan kind of element to them and thus they symbolise an escape from guilt as well as a defiant statement of rebellion.That said, one of the early Soviet punk bands was called "Hitler".
>>537596362These are good points, but, did you notice that your ID code ends in "FAP" ?
>>537610966what are you doing Romania?
>>537610966 (You)what are you doing Romania?
>>537593979So you enjoy pride marches and tranny grooming hours Because ukranny is far from independency
I think I'm trolling an obvious pajeet outside /b/. You can try to report but you'll get yourself banned and you'll have to start eating cow dung again because no JIDF shekels.
>>537593979Because it was created by Austrian-Hungary empire as a divide&conquer tactics against Russia and than reinforced by Russia against Poland.They don't have language, history or heroes outside of Russians/Polacks.
>>537610336Baldio, are you calm and ready to talk now?
>>537604641Better not claim any Ukrainian lands for safekeeping when their nation fails.
>>537593979>How come Ukrainian national identity is illegitimate but say for example Slovakian is legitimate?Exactly, I will go and say that neither is romanian identity valid. Glad we could come to an understanding.
>>537611381>They don't have language, history or heroes outside of Russians/Polacks.This explains their retardation and why everyone around them wants to see them exterminated.
>>537611513>t.
>>537611513Romanians are actual Magyars that were forcefully Latinized.
>>537611674This faggot gets it.
Haha.A) Ukraine has the identity historically. Russia doesn’t. “Rus” refers to Ukrainians historically and from that the recent mutt disaster state of Russia was named. B) Russia’s got stuffed by them. C) Russia could be gone by next year, the only generation in all history who’d think something had gone would be the boomers. Boomer fiction led by the Rothschilds investment in creating a cold war and to that end keeping the zombie of the USSR alive for 50 years wanted to make up villains for its entertainment brainwashing and used Russia. But Russians are mutt retards barely at Africa tier and when push comes to shove always prove to be pathetic. Just like in all history russia is a big helpless doofus who anybody who choses to can slap around for fun. I’m fully enjoying the russian liars heads spinning as their own lies once again amount to less than zip and their world of bullshart falls apart around them and they struggle to lie-comprehend their way through it. And the most entertaining bits are yet to come. Yay!
Haha.A) Ukraine has the identity historically. Russia doesn’t. “Rus” refers to Ukrainians historically and from that the recent mutt disaster state of Russia was named.B) Russia’s got stuffed by them.C) Russia could be gone by next year, the only generation in all history who’d think something had gone would be the boomers. Boomer fiction led by the Rothschilds investment in creating a cold war and to that end keeping the zombie of the USSR alive for 50 years wanted to make up villains for its entertainment brainwashing and used Russia. But Russians are mutt retards barely at Africa tier and when push comes to shove always prove to be pathetic. Just like in all history russia is a big helpless doofus who anybody who choses to can slap around for fun.I’m fully enjoying the russian liars heads spinning as their own lies once again amount to less than zip and their world of bullshart falls apart around them and they struggle to lie-comprehend their way through it.And the most entertaining bits are yet to come. Yay!
>>537593979>How come Ukrainian national identity is illegitimate but say for example Slovakian is legitimate?Because it was never "Ukraine". It was "The Ukraine"."Ukraine" is just the Russian word for the "Outskirts" or "Border lands".You can check this for yourself.https://translate.google.com/?sl=en&tl=ru&text=outskirts&op=translateUkraine is the outskirts of the Russian empire. They were just Russians, up until the USSR and it's collapse. The western part of Ukraine was made up of Poles, Romanians, Hungarians and Slovaks.Trying to hammer Ukraine into a single state is really just a way for western nations to attack Russia.
>>537608841So based their faggot kike crossdressing president made it a crime for the goyims to dislike him. So you can die fighting Russians wearing a sonnenrad but you can't hurt the feelings of the jews shipping you off to your death.
>>537612050You make a sensible point, but kikes are not Semites.
>join the judaized White ISIS GOYIMS>just don't say anything the jews don't likelol, fuck these jews
I'm gonna go take a pajeet. You boys play nice while I'm away.
>my feeling are being hurt>I'm sending the SS to jail for not kissing my ass
It's Ukrainian Nationalism the jews are shipping every last Ukrainian off to die for. The Ukrainian Nationalism is when there are no longer any Ukrainians left and the jews flood Ukraine with unwanted alien niggers. peak nationalism
>>537602788How about right before that happened? It's so odd that vatniks use heavily outdated data, like polls from 1995 asking if life was better under the Soviet Union
I wonder how many jews are being grabbed off the street by press gangs in the jewish zones of Ukraine. I'm guessing zero.
>be jews>start a war>flee the country>let all of the White goyims die for your interests>make it a crime to say anything the jews don't like >this is a nationalist government
>be jews>starve Ukraine and Russia to death>kill tens of millions of White Christians>some time passes>jews get Russia and Ukraine to kill each other again
>>537593979Sven, you multicultural somalicum guzzler, you shouldn't be having so much trouble comprehending this.National legitimacy exists on a spectrum.On one end you have nations that have maintained their ethnicity, culture and territory for thousands of years on end, like the Japanese, on the other end you have the Principality of Sealand.Between these two extremes you have nations of various pedigree - Italians who LARP as Romans when in fact they are descended from Roman slaves, Greek wewuzzing, eventually you descend deeper and deeper into illegitimate filth – eldritch racemixed mysterymeat in Bulgaria, Turkey and India claiming infinite heritage and izzat. Roughly smack dab in the middle is Slovakia, which has some solid arguments in favor and against existing. Czechia is decidedly on the more legitimate side of the spectrum.Ukraine is... pretty fucking close to Sealand.It gained its territory not by conquest or diplomacy, but by a greater power changing borders as an administrative optimization, in a time when there was a Union, so the non-Ukrainians who suddenly became "Ukrainians" didn't particularly care.Its history is a subset of Russian historyIt claims the cultural heritage of the Cossacks, which exist to this day as a separate nation and consider it to be the greatest insult to be mistaken for a UkrainianIts official language is a creole mix of Russian grammar with Polish loanwordsIn order to have a territory, it has to oppress not only Russians, but also ethnic Hungarians, Bulgarians, Tatars, and Greek refugees from the islamic invasions that have lived in Crimea for centuries (blonde Crimeans are actually purebred, non-Turked Greeks. You can identify them by being blonde while having heavy jew-adjacent noses)The Ukrainian flag itself is stolen from the state of Lower Austria, and defaced with a Jewish symbol.It's a pretty sad excuse for a nation and a very sloppy job by the greater western powers.
>>537605343>>537605434And Russians are dying in droves to THAT?How humiliating!
>>537613129They aren't even fighting for Ukrainian nationalism and the international jews who back them are the global source of denationalization. If they somehow won, their prize would be intense jewish cultural marxism and an immediate demographic war on the native population just like the ungraceful evil jews did to the Anglosphere and Europe after we "won" WW2 for these demonkikes.
>>537613265He's not in charge of anything. He's just the face of the jews running Ukraine into the ground.
>>537595281Swedish language and people are copy-paste of Norway with a few minor tweak, the same as Ukraine and Russia, yet you say a Swedish national identity has the right to exist?
>>537613459So Russians are just dying on there own?Well I guess I have seen a lot of them killing themselves...IDK why they're so eager to go to hell though.
>>537593979>When is it legitimate?When you have your own thing going>When is a national identity illegitimate?When your whole identity is that you are not someone else and that's it
>>537613651I know you're stupid, so I'll recap. You said rabbi Zelenski was killing Russians, which he is not because he's a gay jew actor. Zelenski is the face of the anti-nationalist jews sending the population of Ukraine to their deaths. >>537613651>So Russians are just dying on there own?Russians are not being killed on THEIR own. Russians are being killed by the international jews whose jewish supremacy the US government exists to perpetuate. They are using a constellation of mercenaries and non-jewish Ukrainians to do their bidding.
>>537594446Belarus does have an achievement. Little to no covid iirc. Somewhat similar to Sweden but better.
