God FUCKING DAMNIT, why cant there be just ONE party that is Socialist and also anti-migration?I agree with almost every single thing, a few things i dont like but can tolerate, until I get here and it's a complete deal breaker. EVERYTHING else they want to do becomes not possible if you have no borders. Bernie was closesd borders, never, ever changed positions on that, and it's like they took everything from Bernie EXCEPT that central piece.
>>538067356BECAUSE THE DSA IS FAR LEFT DUMBASS. DID YOU REALLY THINK THEY WERE GONNA SHARE YOUR VIEWS?
>>538067356>Just get rid of borders and let 70iq shitskins take jobs for teenagers while everything gets worse!FUCK the DSA. Every nigger supporting this shit deserves death.
>>538067458Yes, because I DO share 95% of their views, the immigration is the MASSIVE disagreement I have that breaks it for me.Bernie was DSA but with closed borders, but they didn't fucking listen to that part.
>>538067356Denmark's socialist party is fiercely anti-migrant, and has one of the lowest rates of non-eu migrants in Europe, close to none.
>>538067356Social Democracy = Weimar RepublicIt's a tool to usher in Communism.There is a better way....
>>538067642Yet it was one of the first countries to lock down due to COVID, and it was one of the most hardcore ones outside of actual third-world countries. Fuck this gay Earth.
>>538067356>why cant there be just ONE party that is Socialist and also anti-migration?You mean a party that was Socialist and Nationalist?Can't imagine why that wouldn't go over super well, politically.
>>538067589>bernie>closed borders
>>538067726best post /thread
When the fuck did /Pol/ go leftist?
>>538067356My one intense disagreement with DSA. We CANNOT take in more people. We have to make sure our own are taken care of before we ever let in foreigners. Not even because I don't want them, but the house has to be in order before we ever let in guests. We have too much that needs fixing with the people we have.
>>538067818>Can't imagine why that wouldn't go over super well, politically.I can only think of one reason.
>>538067356Why do you need the extreme position on immigration?
>>538071229That’s not extreme. Having brown people is extreme. Unthinkable 60 years ago. Your brain has been addled by jews.
>>53807157260 years ago people were racist
>>538071730And they were better for itStupid sucker of Jewish cocks
>>538071730Everyone except a subset of brainwashed suicidal retards is racist.
>>538071229It isn't. Capitalism has pushed us to the extreme pro-immigration position due to the profit motive (Elon's H1B fetish, cheap physical labor "dey took er jerbs", importing Asians to pad our STEM degrees for cheap mental labor). It needs extreme remediation in kind. I don't want to kick people out, that's the extreme end, but no more can come in barring very special circumstances and no, a foreign war is not a special circumstance. I'm not taking in your refugees but if your cause is just I'll support your fight.
>>538071889I also like the idea of race-mixing being uncommon, but not looked down upon. How you do this I have no fucking clue, but I enjoy other cultures and when they blend too much it becomes a big gray blob of nothing. Think of a sandwich. The bread, meat, cheese, veggies, and dressings contribute their own flavors and textures to the whole and make it a harmonious and pleasant experience. Throw the same ingredients in a blender? Foul, unappealing, and oddly removes the flavor nuances in addition to the obvious texture destruction. Hold your culture high, be proud, and do not look down on others for doing the same. Do not admonish the other culture's practices UNLESS they effect those outside of that culture, same for your own.
>>538071960>I don't want to kick people outOf course of course>but no more can come inBut why not? It's a massive country it isn't like we are full. H1B's aside, an immigrant has to buy things to work here so it isn't as simple as they take jobs. Most of why everything is so expensive and shitty right now is rent-seeking behavior, artificial scarcity, and zoning laws.>>538072345Culture is not a static object. American culture is not the same thing now as it was 100 years ago and won't be the same in another 100 years. By engaging even over the internet with another culture there is going to be "blending" going on.
>>538072674>By engaging even over the internet with another culture there is going to be "blending" going on.I mean the internet is basically just a port city.
>>538072674No one who has ever had difficulty finding employment wants the labor market to be more saturated than it is now.
>>538067356Imagine the airline ticket prices Every flight is booked for years
>>538072895The government could always just start employing people.
>>538072895This picture is propaganda to fill white states up with mud creatures. Lived in ND and there is not that many available jobs.
>>538067356Sad that America is full of so many gay zoomers who understand nothing about fascism
>>538073028Yeah.That sounds like a terrible idea.
>>538072967Also worth noting that if every nigger left Africa i would move there is a heart beat. Would love to live in a rainforest near a beach.
>>538067356you have to be retarded to be a socialist so other retarded policies logically follow
>>538072895But seriously corporations are incredibly greedy and have created the job shortage on purpose. Also our consumer economy is fucking dying so if no one is spending money there aren't going to be jobs. It's a vicious cycle that we are probably too late to get out of.
>>538073082It worked during the great depression.
>>538067356>why cant there be just ONE party that is Socialist and also anti-migration?Socialism = Jewish 100% of the time = Anti-White and pro-shitskin immigration. Always bro.
>>538067356You join the party that is the most antisemitic, because that's the source of the migration problem.
>>538067356What a concept, a socialist that values national borders. Or a National Socialist, if you will.
>>538067356The Jews specifically go out of their way to prevent there from being a National Socialist movement in any Western country. This is their most important goal, above any other. First, they poison every socialist movement with LGBT and open borders. Then they make socialism about helping low IQ brown people instead of helping everyone. You know how Abraham Lincoln was a Republican? Well, it used to be the small government party was also socially liberal, and the big government party was socially illiberal. That flip that happened was because the Jews knew that's a dangerous combination.
>>538072674>But why not? It's a massive country it isn't like we are full.Fullness isn't the problem in my eyes. It's more bodies for the the top 1% parasites to feed off of. Well intentioned as they may be, immigrants have significantly less leverage against the capitalist forces than those born into it. They are more likely to play by the rules out of fear of deportation if they don't have citizenship or denaturalization even if they are. The current environment is simply hostile to them, and they are hostages we can't afford to have. They enable, to no fault of their own mind you.>Culture is not a static objectAgreed, and some blending is inevitable, the sandwich must be chewed right? But influence and homogenization are different. Influence I'm totally fine with, but I think there are too many people willing to give up their identity simply because their identity has been demonized. This goes for all cultures. Maybe I just want people to have more backbone and feel worth in their differences instead of shame.
>>538067356Because the goal of a true socialist politician is to drain the middle class paying for degenerate immigrants until there's just 2 classes left.
>>538067356Hmmm
>>538073362>National SocialistA jew with a swastika armband? GAY.
>>538072895>>538073028No joke, do both. Less labor saturation and more government jobs. These synergize.
>>538073233There's nothing more Jewish than capitalism, actually. It's a system that's based entirely on usury, which is the lifeblood of the Jews. The entire capitalist system is, I loan you money, you pay me back with interest. It's a dishonest system of debt slavery that enriches only the most morally bankrupt and disgusting creatures that have ever walked the earth. Actual socialism is the correct form of government, where the state acts as a vehicle of investment and uplifts every individual. The state invests in projects that are beneficial and that will have financial returns, rather than investing in brown retards that refuse to work. The state provides people their jobs, sends people to work where they are best at. Hitler's Nazi Germany had essentially zero unemployment. Your kid would grow up in the best education system on the planet where they were outdoors and hiking and learning on trails. When they reached adulthood, they had multiple paths open to them that were all provided to the state to get them where they'd perform the best in society. You were just guaranteed to have a job. You were guaranteed to have dignity. You were basically guaranteed a wife and a family. All of the modern stresses of a man are destroyed under National Socialism.
>>538073590You're thinking of a communist
>>538073498No? It's to elevate the middle and lower class to start with so they can survive and flourish by reducing the assets of the upper class to a reasonable amount. I'm down with you having a net worth of 900 million, hell double it, 1.8 billion, but 30 billion? 200 billion? Trillionaires? Yeah that can't continue, completely unsustainable.
>>538073674I simply don't agree with Judaism being the cause, but I do agree that usury and have an economy based on debt has fucked the world. Unfortunately Jews were the designated usurers forever ago and many stuck with it because, as it turns out, it makes you filthy fucking rich. So in a system that holds the richest on a pedestal and grants them immunity from the law, why stop?
>>538073413I don't know I just don't think more or less immigration is going to fix the job problem I think the entire economy is artificial right now. There are no goods and services it's just AI, speculation bullshit, and vibes and we are all fucked because a handful of retards found the "make infinite money lever">I think there are too many people willing to give up their identityI don't think you can just give up your identity you are your identity and that is not (hopefully) a static object.
>>538074093It is their god
>>538074152This is not a "free market" which requires enforcement of monopoly laws and shit. The corporations will just make the jobs scarce if there are less people. It's all fake and the financialization of the economy gives the ultra wealthy all these bullshit levers to pull to manufacture scarcity.
>>538074152>I just don't think more or less immigration is going to fix the job problemCorrect, either way won't "fix" it, but more people will make it harder to solve. To boil it down, in a situation where the problem is not being able to take care of citizens you have, the solution can't be more citizens. Fix the system, invest in the people you have, then when the system is robust and the people are taken care of we can talk about having more people.
>>538074612>but more people will make it harder to solveBut I think it is an artificial problem.
>>538073674>tranny rant in yiddishTLDR Couldn't read your manifesto Moshi. Communism is just 1 form of Socialism. Socialism = Democratic Socialism, Socialism in general, Fascism, Communism, etc. You already know this though Jew.
>>538067356If it makes you feel any better, the rest of their platform will probably undercut the push for immigration indirectly, because its the corps that are insistent on shipping in as many low income workers as possible and the DSA wants worker protection and unions and shit back on the table.The rest of their platform proposal is good enough that if we can get most of that stuff, I think we'll still be better off than we are now even with freedom of movement.
>>538074655The scarcity is artificial, yes, but that isn't the problem that needs fixing, only a symptom. As you pointed out before, the issue is the ability of those in power to create that artificial scarcity, corporate greed and the like. Immigrants give them the scapegoat, where they can point to them and say "see they are why you pay $10 for bread, sorry". Can't give them that excuse.
>>538074838Bit of my hope, honestly. Being able to take in immigrants and help others is a fine ideal but the truth is you have to get the system right first. They will learn they can't climb the mountain and pick up every passenger along the way if they want to reach the summit.
>>538067356This is a very good question. I might support aspects of it. If they cut the anti-White male shit. They probably won’t though
>>538070392That’s always been my position too. It never happens though. It’s always a shit circus of replacements
>>538070150The people here always have been, stop talking to bots, fren
>>538070392A political platform is just a list of goals. It doesn't mean you have to do everything at once, or in a nonsensical order.
>>538075095The DNC pushes culture war bullshit because making actual reforms and policies might rock the boat. Like, we can fix healthcare because that would upset the insurance companies. And so on. So they drum up a culture war that can be fought eternally to create the illusion of movement even as you stay in place.The DSA has shit it actually wants to DO that it can campaign on, so it doesn't need to focus on culture war nonsense. They are essentially modern Sewer Socialists, which sounds like it would be a bad thing but the term actually comes from an american political movement that wanted to undercut the robber barons (the 1% of their era) and tax the shit out of them to pay for things that the common people needed but could not ever possibly do on their own, like build sewers. the whole point was that these projects were not glamorous or profitable, but they still needed to get done and you were much better off living with a functioning sewer than without one.
>>538075141Yeah... I'm down with everything they want to do it's just that doing it all at once is a recipe for disaster. There are steps and some things MUST take priority. Shouldn't stop you from trying though! It won't stop me.
>>538075332Agreed, see>>538075374
>>538070150/chug/ is the entryway for commies to enter /pol/.
These are left wing shitheads, they are literally the enemy.
>>538075343Bingo
>>538067356> God FUCKING DAMNIT, why cant there be just ONE party that is Socialist and also anti-migration?It exists. Join the NSDAP.
>>538070150Ignore the shills, anon
>>538075424To who, you? Are you the 1%?
>>538075566Shill this dick faggot lmao
>>538067589The DSA is specifically crafted to share 95% of your views, BUTalso contain the poison pill of mass nigmigration to scare you away from socialism. Then who are you going to vote for, the end times cult of jew worshippers who, "like, totally promise not to flood the country with pajeets this time, bro"? It's fucking rigged as fuck before a single vote can be cast.
The two major groups in societyConservatives -- obey tradition, mind is closedLiberals -- obey authority, mind is only open to what the authority authorizedThen there is a very small little raisin sized community of actual free thinkers who can debate and think about things. Leftoids might seem like earstwhile allies, but they are always going to be shitheads ruled by emotion and guardrails leading them down the garden path. Conservatives are allies but they are not the same, their minds are dark stone, inflexible.
>>538075590To everyone. The left is the enemy of humanity itself.
>>538075688Interesting, I can see this being the case or at least close. Who are the raisin sized free thinkers to you in this situation? Non-affiliated independents?
>>538075742Oh, you're confusing Dems and Leftists, understandable. Dems are sycophant lizard people in human skin who think the best path to power and wealth is appeasement, leftists want to fix things regardless of what others say.
>>538067356lmfao>expecting jews to ever give up subversion
Because socialism is the invention of bankers retard. It’s capitalism: endgame.
>>538069965Literally yes. Hes been consistently saying this for over a decade.
>>538075911It's us bro. We are it
>>538076134Care to elaborate?
>>538076049>leftists want to fix thingsOk I have a question. How come when I'm arguing with a self proclaimed "Democratic socialist" we don't talk about ideas, but rather whether marx said x, y, or z. How come these guys all offload their thinking to this guy from 2 centuries ago, instead of thinking for themselves?This is what I'm talking about. The left is weird with authority. Maybe they are children of divorce or weak fathers, but there's something in their brain that craves an authority figure telling them what to think.For this reason all the policies they go for end up being very detached from reality. You mass immigration isn't exactly their first foible, they've had dozens of these.
Its getting to be that time. Kind of wild being part of the most important generation in human history. What are you gonna do?
Lmao told you, another corpo left movement.
>>538067356because jews want endless 3rd world immigration to end white people you fucking idiot
>>538067356We tried your hard anti-immigration stance with Trump TWICE and it lead us to the worse presidency, social decay and quality of life I've ever experienced.So fuck you. Go and double down on your MAGA retardation. I'm sick of hearing your dogshit that only gives billionaires and jews more and more power with zero of the benefits you all promised would happen by now.I hope the DSA rapes you to death.
>>538067589You think gay race communism wants white people? lol they would advocate for killing all whites if they could
>>538067458Since when was the far left about neo-colonialism?
>>538075065>Being able to take in immigrants and help others is a fine ideal but the truth is you have to get the system right first.if you are an atheist, then its never established why charity especially aimed towards strangers or people from another country is a good thing.if you don't believe in heaven, then giving to foreigners has no benefit.there should be a difference between charity and using public tax dollars.why should we dilute our votes with people who very likely do not natively understand the language the law is in written in just for the sake of providijg labor to corporations (or the government)? that's undemocratic in nature.
>>538076372Unfortunately, arrogance. They think since they are on "the right side of history" they can spout theory without implementing any praxis behind it. Does Marx have good ideas? At their core, yeah, I think he identified the general problem well and we have the same general problem today but we live in a world that's well... worlds away from what he could ever imagine and it helps no one if we ignore that. You are right that the Left has an authority issue. It's a very odd relationship, and unfortunately many are self proclaimed leftists but when you hear them talk it turns out they just want fascism but woke and gay. Authority is necessary, but all things in moderation. People should always be the ultimate authority and politicians should be nothing more than vessels. Should they express their individual opinions? Yes, I think so, but if their personal beliefs clash with the people then the people should win that clash, no exception. Which is technically how things should work in our system now but it very obviously does not. It's tough to balance, but balance will be necessary if we want any meaningful change.
>>538067356what part of "workers of the world unite" was unclear to you? It's almost like you need a third position, idiot
>>538077053The only way it can work is if we become the authority setting the leftist's programming.Conservatives are rooted to tradition. I identify with that, but they're not change-agents in society. We can't use them to make changes.So the only way to fix our shit, is by gaining authority by hook or by crook, and then all the authority-worshiping leftists will agree with us. Then we can set things right.But that requires getting rid of their old authority, like their attachment to Marx. I don't like Marx, I just don't like that shit. I don't think he was right about very many things.I think he just kind of machine gunned every single criticism of capitalism, so lo and behold he ends up being right about certain things. But his whole analysis, his whole system, it's not good. I don't like the philisophical way of thinking, I'm a STEM guy, I like scientific thinking. Reasoning from observation and logic.
>>538076747Dunno if I'd consider myself atheist exactly... Maybe agnostic? Which is ironic because of all religions and creeds Gnosticism and Buddhism speak to me the most. Anyway, I think people are good on the whole and more importantly, useful on the whole. But the environment has to be conducive to this. Without that, more people are more burdens. The environment is what I want to fix before anyone else comes in so that they CAN be good and useful, we are nowhere near that now.
>>538077344>Gnosticism and Buddhismyou would still have to explain why helping strangers is a good thing if charity isn't a virtue in your religion.why would you donate or help a stranger if you are in debt yourself?if you aren't, still why would you help a stranger if your family member is in debt?and so on.likewise, why would someone who is either jobless or careerless facilitate the employment of someone else? there is even less of a case for those not even in your friend or professional circle.basically, if you don't have a religion the whole moral framework of charity and putting others before yourself falls apart unless you are a "cultural christian".
>>538077247Also a STEM guy, and you'd be surprised! Philosophy and physics (my field) overlap quite a bit because they both hold logical thought at their core. Finding truths and using proof to back them as much as possible. And while observation is important, ideation and theory give us a framework of knowing what is even worth testing, otherwise there wouldn't be any discovery, no progress, only repetition of old phenomena. Anyway, is Marx on too high of a pedestal? Yeah. But like you said, is everything of his worth ignoring? Not at all, he did get some important things right and that is useful. No need to throw the baby out with the bathwater n all. Authority is tricky because when it is taken, it sets precedent for being taken. Law of the jungle takes over, which strength is a truth at the end of the day but not something that we should base our governance around. It's too turbulent, too brittle, makes it hard for change to be made and last. What I think you're after is Meritocracy, earning power through effort, growth, education, deeds, and well... merit. Which I like much better. The thing is, popular support and merit of the person in power need to go hand in hand, it doesn't currently.
>>538077547>strangerjust to emphasize, strangers won't necessarily meet you, remember your face or name depending on the avenue of the donation or help. they also won't necessarily thank you and can just take you for granted, just like the refugees and immigrants the US has accepted since the late 2000s.so after 20 years America hasn't been thanked for the immigration amnesty and better quality of life (though now declining) and instead gets bashed and guilt tripped for "racism" and having sovereignty.
>>538077547>why would you donate or help a stranger if you are in debt yourself?I wouldn't, which is why I say the environment must be conducive. In this situation a conducive environment would be me being well off, not in any debt. At that point I am no longer the one who needs help, but the one in a position to help. And I think it's fine to show a little preference in that, I'd definitely help a family member/friend before a stranger. But my fan and friends are fine too? Yes, I want to help. And who knows? I may not be in a position to help forever, my karma may reward me in some way by saving me from my turmoils, maybe from the very same person I helped in the past. I don't believe in putting all others before myself, but if my self is all good, then I think I should help. It fulfills me, and I think makes the world better overall. Will some people try to take advantage? Absolutely, so you need to be wise to their situation AND to yours, but doesn't mean you shouldn't do it.
>>538078276>I wouldn'tcan we agree that assisting | facilitating economic immigrants is a misuse of public funds?
>>538067356>God FUCKING DAMNIT, why cant there be just ONE party that is Socialist and also anti-migration?before the natsoc party really rose to power in germany, they had their own little dsa as well
>>538067356Yeah i agree. Why has no one ever tried to do a nationalist socialist party?
>>538078369Yep, in our current situation absolutely. When our situation improves, we can do it as an investment. Would that investment yield positive results? Won't know for sure until we try, but my gut says yes. And if it doesn't? Well we weren't betting our entire system on the investment anymore, call it a loss and move forward.
>>538078661>When our situation improves, we can do it as an investment.This is where we disagree. This isn't too different to allowing a foreign country to externalize its costs on to the American public, just that you only draw the line because we don't have the wealth to do so.
>>538067356Because to be anti migration you have to be on some level a nationalist, and society tried the nationalist side of socialism once and decided to never let it happen again
>>538078774Totally fine to disagree, but I think where the line is drawn is the most important part, right? Having the wealth to do so imo is how we start, without this my line, like yours, is at 0, no more come in, full stop. But your line stays at 0 regardless of wealth or potential wealth, mine stops at "no benefit". Not at detriment, at no benefit. Meaning if x number of immigrants net a positive impact, but x+1 immigrants net a neutral impact, x is my line. Now could x be 0? Maybe, won't know until we are in a position to experiment under a stable system. Which is way in the future anyway.
>>538067356You won't get honest anti-immigration policy until the workers are empowered. Until then you'll just get the same elite oligarch bought faggots promising it and then doing the opposite because their rich buddies want low wages.
>>538079385No. Fundamentally, enabling a foreign government to externalize its costs onto the American public is wrong and is a misuse of public funds if not outright treason.
>>538071229Old lefitsts that were actually pro worker did not think it an extreme position. Academic leftists since the CIA took over the hippie generation are the ones saying anti-migration = extremist racism
>>538079452But they wouldn't be agents of the foreign government anymore? They'd be American citizens. And why not have more capable citizens if you have ample opportunities for them to contribute to the country? If another country can't afford them be we can, and can invest in them and make them useful when the country they are leaving could not, then why not use them? Take the opportunity and if it doesn't pan out then stop taking them in.
>>538079594>anti-migration = extremist racismimo the US should've been a country where the race card doesn't work because we have a significant enclave of blacks, chinese, natives and creole but "racist" is somewhat still a magic word that paralyzes people
>>538079668A lot of immigrants retain citizenship of their home countries. Again, you are seeing citizenship as a means of providing labor to an employer as opposed to a member of society with civic responsibilities, which is also wrong.
>>538070150Never was. Closest it ever got was lolberts during old /pol/ debates. Faggot loser leftists do like to pretend otherwise and lie about it.
>>538067356>>538067589The views you agree with them on are them lying to you to get you to support them for their true goal, destroying the US. They openly admit they want to destroy this country and every one of us that isn't brown or insane.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neville_Roy_Singhamhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fabian_SocietyThese people prey on your worries and grievances to get you to support them so they can gain power then eradicate you.
>>538071730All your brown hordes hate you, faggot Only in your delusions are they not racist
>>538075343The dsa are brown subversives funded by china
The dsa are brown maga
>>538079800>a member of society with civic responsibilitiesWhat all does this entail to you?
>>538076166Also always been very critical of h1b. Bernie is a holdover from when the left cared about labor. Those in control of the party now know the future of the party depends on winning. So instead of representing blue color types with no political power, they’ve switched to the young university elites that will run things, make more money to donate, have more free time and larger social networks to use for political ends etc… Uneducated people like ditch diggers and construction guys hardly vote, they don’t have enough money or time to donate to the party, and most importantly aren’t aesthetically aligned with party leadership — sociology phds don’t hangout with tradesman
>>538067356But hur dur…..they are based and named the joos. Fucking retardos
>>538067589>but they didn't fucking listen to that part...And they never will because they're completely retarded. If you want closed borders and socialism then you have to look no further than what Hitler preached.>t. former leftist
>>538080008#1 being able to understand the language the law is written inin order to contact representatives to vote yes or no on proposed legislation.if most of the population is ESL they are more likely to rely on a summary or the media e.g be misled and also dilute votes.if they do not contact representatives or participate, the politician class has more power to act on their own whims instead of on the behalf of the people.
>>538080145I'm fine with that, English fluency exam for citizenship. Do exams throughout the first couple of years too.
>>538067356According to their own printed manifestos, etc, "Socialism" by its very definition, is SUPPOSED to he international, and "just the first step towards greater international co-operation and wealth re-distribution"...the tl;dr= it's International Communism Lite in short trousers.My encapsulated summary may sound like some form of McCarthyism, but I am only telling you what they actually believe.
>>538067356>God FUCKING DAMNIT, why cant there be just ONE party that is Socialist and also anti-migration?Because socialism is inherently pro-immigration. They believe in equality above all, and nations, borders, people, is division, and they are against it. We are all equal, so there is no problem importing millions of niggers
>>538067356all socialists are nigger. all working class are nigger.
>>538083117Modern day Aristotle right here
