What went wrong
>>538091558Americans
>>538091558hitler
god
>>538091558>What went wrong
>>538091558Nothing. We succesfully assaulted the Demiurge and his communism. It's gone.
>>538091558Germans overextended against a country 30x of their mobilizable population thinking Japs will do shit which why hitler went into war against americans in the first place.
>>538091558Too ambitious with no single main goal. Either take Moscow, Leningrad or Stalingrad one at a time and not all at once.
italy and those fucking gypsies to the north of stalingrad
They expected a poor broken and subservient populace to rise up and join fight against the only organized resistance to an invading genocidal army that wished to steal their lands and enslave or kill them all.
>>538091558Invading the USSR without finishing the war in the West was always a bad decision and spoke to Hitlers hubris
>>538091959they couldnt finish the war in the west without oil in soviet lands
>>538091558Hadler misallocated troops to focus on the central moscow front, when Hitler saw the southern advance on oil fields in the caucuses more important.The army command, made up of old aristocrats who weren’t nazis failed to comprehend the nature of the war and wanted to gloryhound by taking historically important sites and doing fancy military maneuvers.
>>538091558Not being able to convince the Japanese, still feeling snubbed from previous experience, to invade in the East. Greater emphasis should have been placed on supporting Bose in India to divert British attention as well and attempt to jostle for more control of Persian waters, This could habe shut down or at least hindered the 3 lend lease routes which ultimately saved the USSR.
There are factors like lend lease of course but the biggest failure?They launched a war of extermination against a much larger population. You'd be amazed the amount of resolve people have when faced with an existential threat, especially when you have the demographic advantage.And make no mistake, Germans came close which is a feat in of itself, but 2nd place is still 1st loser
>>538091558They wanted to capture that same lightning in a bottle the Prussians did in Paris back in 1871 - ie force a quick military surrender and take control before any popular uprisings complicate matters
>>538091558What's Operation Barbarossa
>>538092015The oil in Baki would have been supremely difficult for them to extract even if they could somehow get there. It was a bad decision to break the non-aggression pact with Stalin instead of just trading German technicians for raw materials like they already had done.
>>538092974Baku*
>>538092280ITS WHEN BASED HORTLER TRIED TO END THE COMMIE THREAT FOR GOOD
>>538091901>against a country 30x of their mobilizable populationUSSR had 190mil in 1940Germany had 70milDifference is about 2.5 times, not 30.Also Germany didn't invaded alone, but with the support of many other countries
>>538092090Lend-Lease did not start until 1942, at wich point Barbarossa already stalled. Lend-lease also represented around 2% of USSR capacities for all the war. They received much more less than the british : the third of what the US send to UK, for an army much, much bigger.Lend-lease was a grasp of fresh air and sparred more efforts and death to overcome the lack of it but it was overall anecdotical for the victory, especially for the sucess in winter 1941.
>>538093552He said mobilizable population.USSR mobilized women as well and 12 year old kids. Germany didn't.
>>538091558Nothing went wrong. Barbarossa was a complete success. It was the fuck-up at Moscow that started the problems. Hitler's generals got antsy because they were a lot further into Russia than they expected and stopped taking Hitler's orders. If they had obeyed orders instead of thinking they were better than uncle Adolf we'd all be a lot better off.
>>538091558Three (arguably four) objectives instead of 1, or at the most 2.It could have been brilliant, had they used Leningrad as a feint, put actual effort into capturing Moscow, and had the real push go straight for Stalingrad.Secondly bombing Stalingrad and turning into the best defensive ground for 2000 KM wasn't smart.Thirdly, after it became clear that the sixth army was encircled, an immediate breakout should have been ordered, and the German army should have fought defensively, like in Ukraine. However, this would have necessitated a total doctrinal shift and us utterly removed from reality, so there's no point in speculating any further.In general, the question isn't what specific thing they could have done differently, it's too many moving parts, and without the quick and sudden collapse of the USSR they hoped for, the more chance they had to fail.It's like playing Chess, where your timer is on 3 minutes and your opponent has 20.You pressure him and hope to get a quick victory, but after a while, your rash plays will lead you to make a mistake. As long as he keeps his cool, you have almost no chance.
>>538091558>What went wrongHitler ran out of fuel and advanced too fast and lost momentum.
>>538094035Those don't count in actual war
>>538091558No Oil
>>538094035>USSR mobilized women as well and 12 year old kids. Germany didn't.LolWot?
>>538093936Zoomies have been taught lendlease won the war
>>538092035>lend lease routes which ultimately saved the USSR.Land lease for sure is what saved Russia ,the amount of planes/tanks/artil/ ect is just insane .the combined industry of the British empire + U.S was just to much. I don't think Russia would win without it
IMO even without lend-lease the USSR still would've been outproducing the Germans due to Allied bombing from the British and Americans.Hitler really needed to end the war with the British and French, and refuse to join the offensive war the Japanese launched same as they did to their USSR invasion. That would've allowed him at least attempt to keep pace and have his full forces and resources devoted to the East, if his generals didn't work to sabotage him like >>538092018 points out.
Really, the only way Operation Babarossa could have succeeded is if Hitler wasn't forced to invade Yugoslavia and Greece, which moved the invasion timetable into June 1941. People shit on Hitler for diverting Army Group Centre from the Moscow front to attack Kiev, but it was a sound strategic decision all things considered.
>>538093936Lend-lease began in March 1941 and expanded to the USSR in November 1941, before the United States entered the war.
>>538094140Wrong, he didn't advance fast enough because the Wehrnacht generals were effete snobbish faggots that were too scared to follow his orders and win the war so they made up their own orders and blamed Hitler when they lost.
>>538091558>they will just surrender if we take moscow lmao
>>538091558white buckbroken russians(not all but most) joined bolshevik jews instead of hitler, this is the truth
>>538091558logistics
>>538094156Thank you beautiful tuga anon, your picrel is one of my favorite memes that I lost when my hard drive went ack.
>>538093936>anecdotalI think you mean incidental. Anecdotal means an episode of personal experience
>>538091558I don't think there is germ word for ὕβρις but it would be that.
>>538092018Moscow was the most important target of the campaign because the Soviet rail network was extremely centralized and everything converged there. Taking Moscow would have logistically isolated many strategic battlefields, isolated factories from resources and prevented the troop movement necessary for large scale counterattacks.Hitler failed to recognize the significance of this because he did not understand logistics. There was no realistic way that Germany would be able to manage fuel production in the Caucasus while protecting a massively overextended front across the Volga steppes, which made both the siege of Sevestopol and the battle for Kiev entirely wasted endeavors that squandered Germany's limited time and offensive power. Logistics hamstrung the Germans at every step because top planners critically misunderstood the logistical challenge of advancing so far so quickly without adequate rail or a suitable stockpile of spare parts.That's it really. Barbarossa was poorly planned and poorly led because high command was full of political officers eager to appease Hitler and they all collectively underestimated their enemy for ideological reasons.
Jewish American goys working endless shifts in the factories without pay to send enormous amounts of material aid to their jewish bolsjevik allies.Jewish american industrial capacity saved the bolsjevik jews.Trucks, trains, jeeps, weapons, tanks, airplanes, winter clothing, ammunition, explosives, even whole factories were packed up and exported to their jewish bolsjevik allies.Trotsky and Lenins revolution were financed by the jewish american rothchild bankers.
>>538096782What would have decisively turned the conflict in Germany's favour is if they had leaned into the nationalist passions in Ukraine, Belarus, and the Baltic states. If they had formed puppet governments, allowed the formation of military formations, then they would have won the war. Hitler was right about the USSR being a rotten edifice, but his dreams of a racial war of extermination made everything strategically impossible.
>>538094154True, just ignore that woman bombing you and the kid shooting you. Retard.
Like others have said, logistical shortcomings. The Nazis were more aware of the logistical issues they faced then they typically get credit for, they were betting big on an assessment of the Soviet Union that was proven out to be fatally chauvinistic. Like they knew with issues of fuel and how to extend supply lines that it would not be easy to go to Moscow, but the plan involved them doing this anyway in the face of less resistance than what they really would have to face. They supposed that the Soviet leadership was more incompetent than they really were, and politically weaker than they really were. They were thinking they'd be in Moscow by fall because the Soviet troops would be listless under-motivated sheep who disperse into chaos when combat starts and that the Soviet Union would politically collapse under the strain. Though the Soviet forces did retreat a bunch at first, this was also a problem for the Blitzkreig strategy that they didn't have to deal with in the west. In the west they could outflank the Allies and push them against the Channel, in Russia the Soviets had endless space to fall back into in good order which kept them in the game even in the face of losses and exacerbated the logistical issues faced by the Wermacht until it was starting to struggle, and then comes the counter offensive.
Also he had some traitors amongst his Generals, who were preventing panzerfausts from being shipped to the front which were badly needed.
>>538091558Hitlerite troops two months earlier outside Moscow would be very hard to defend hehe.Even Hitler admitted this in his last days in the bunker.
>>538098083
>>538097740The germans preformed counter attacks of their own against heavily fortified Russian lines, the battle of kursk is one example.Initially their blitzkrieg tactic worked well, and the Soviets were in shambles.They should've lured the soviets into attacking them and then trapping them in cauldrons when they still had the 6th army intact.Just like during ww1 the soviet army was in a pathetic state.This time they had the might of american industry resupplying them with everything they needed to continue the war.
there are two main reasons.1. german glowniggers sucked extremely badly during ww2. for all of barbarossa they were fed lies from the kgb. the soviets didnt even need to come up with some big plan all they did was broadcast fake plans. and the german glowniggers considered that the best source for most of the war lelmao. total assrape. all the information the germans had were wrong. before the war and during the war. its a failure so embarrassing people pretend it didnt happen. we wuz enigma. humiliating.2. the luftwaffe was split in two. it completely dominated the shit out of the soviets, but it just wasnt enough to protect germany at the same time. air forces played a central role on basically every front. if you couldnt dominate the sky your fancy army army was blown to shit. if you remove either of these two cards everything would change. this isnt true for most other reasons.
>>538098083Unironically though.Two months would have made a massive strategic difference.However, when you're rolling dice constantly, at some point you're going to run out of luck.
>>538092974Stalin was exactly the reason Hitler was brought to power, funded and handed France via treason (tanks surprising through forest? lol). Stalins "socialism in one country" doctrine in particular, that was ruining world socialist revolution. Trotsky called him the gravedigger of the revolution.
>>538098234this is what i'm talking about. the failure of operation barbossa has to be this mystery that doesn't compute with people like you, or a sinister consipracy, because you view the Soviet Union the same way the Nazis did. it robs you of your ability to win when you cannot allow yourself to view the capabilities of your enemies objectively. in the Nazis mind they were simultaneously fighting soldiers of a vast and powerful conspiracy that controls everything but also they are weaker, dumber, and more cowardly than fascists and their economy is not allowed to be viewed as capable of building anything or it makes you upset and bark "lend lease lend lease lend lease" over and over again. So you go in and get your ass kicked by a real nation of real people and you never understand what happened.
>>538097013>but his dreams of a racial war of extermination made everything strategically impossible.This. He had already denounced eastern Europeans as subhuman. As occupiers of living space entitled to Germans. They went into those lands wrecking havoc. The lack of allies is what doomed them, on top of extremely harsh winters.
>>538098986You are just mad because the enormous lend lease to the soviets is a stain on american history.
>>5380991331+ million slavs fought in the Wehrmacht my little zoomie.
>>538091558everything should’ve invaded Iran or somewhere with oil instead of snow
>>538091558Stalingrad, and the Kursk sealed the deal. Germany just did not have enough people, material, and fuel. The Soviets could tolerate encirlements of 300,000+ the Germans could not.Hence why we live in this shit timeline today.God rest the souls of all German soldiers, thank you for what you tried to achieve, you gave your all.
>>538099400Of potentially how many? The Nazis won no favors in the lands it conquered. >>538099310Stain? The USSR and WW2 is the best thing that ever happened to the US. It enabled their industries and military like none other and the Cold War was 50 years of Europe sucking American dick to protect them against the iron curtain. US had Europe exactly where it wanted her, on knees.
>>538099455Somewhere, somewhere like Romania perhaps?
>>538098146Damn, I want to take such a touristic tour through all of Greece too!
>>538099400So national socialism was just socialism with national sauce. A multinational army.
>>538099537>Stain? The USSR and WW2 is the best thing that ever happened to the US.Ever heard about the cold war?The allies helped the soviets establish the iron curtain, they gave stalin Poland and all the baltic states. >US had Europe exactly where it wanted her, on kneesOnly the parts they controlled, the other half fell under soviet control.Which they realized after the war was a big blunder on their part.
>>538099634Germany fought britain, naturally some of the peoples who lived under British colonial rule then join Germany so they could fight the british.
>>538094232its projection. germany is well documented to have been sending 12 year old boys to the front in 1945. every accusation is a confession
>>538099712They were necessary losses to show free Europe what to fear. There was no way in which US could have made it better off after WW2. Western Europe was demolished and the USSR would be constant reminder to the free world that you should not make yourself hostile to the US. Even now, US has interest in keeping Russia as a chess piece against Europe. A unified Europe would be a true super power and thus not in US interests.
>>538091558attacking the USSR while at war with Britain
>>538100014What did the Brits do about that, though?
>>538099963Naturally the US want's to keep central Europe under it's thumb like you say.But they were way too lenient towards the soviets, America was the only nuclear power at the final stage of the war.They could make any demands the wanted.
>>538096442This but completely the opposite
>>538100095They bombed german infrastructure to smithereens with aid from America (fuel, pilots, shipment of materials etc)
>>538094156I too played HOI IV
>>538100193>When history teacher Dr Goldenblatt leave the pupil in a mindbroken state of being"Approximately 1.2 million Soviet citizens and ethnic Russians served within the ranks of the Wehrmacht, SS, police, and pro-German militias during World War II. Among these collaborators, an estimated 700,000 were Slavic people, while others included Baltic, Turkish, Caucasian, and other minority groups. "
>>538091558Look at the fucking map. Nazis were retarded if they thought they could conquer and hold it all. Short term they might have succeeded had they managed to assassinate Stalin. They were too retarded to realize that in a top down totalitarian regime where one person holds all military and industrial authority, and has all the secret spy network codes to himself, getting rid of that person would grant an enormous advantage.
>>538091558jews
Hitler's logic:>Germany had defeated France in about a month>USSR population is 5 times that of France>Therefore Germany will take 5 months to defeat USSRIt would be over by Christmas.Problems with this logic:>He needed to attack with much more than 4 million men>Russia is bigger than France, so German troops would have to move faster (due to bad roads, the opposite happened)TLDR: Not enough force, not enough speed
>>538100364millions of indians served in the ranks of the british army. does not mean brits believed they were equals
>>538100465If they captured Moscow it would probably gameover for USSR. Moscow was the central railway hub, and nazis would control most of the fertile soil of USSR. Also Urals was another line to hold if they went as east.
>>538100364even if it was true which it isnt, all those were trojan horses
>>538101003they were never in a position to conquer Moscow
>>538100845Their logic were inspired by their victory against Russia during world war one.
>>538100364>Soviet citizens and ethnic RussiansHilariously, this was kept secret from Hitler. He was led to believe these "Russians" were actually Volksdeutsche, not Slavs.When he found out they were really Slavs, he freaked out and ordered that they be disarmed (his generals ignored the order)Hitler refused to allow Vlasov's men to fight until 1945.The man just didn't like Slavs.
>>538101059>The disgruntled slavic people who had suffered under the jewish red terror for decades were "trojan horses">>538100947You might not like it but it's historical fact.
>>538101304its a historic fact that in the XX century alone no less than 4 millions indians served in the british army. that doesn't change the fact that brits viewed them as inferior people and did not want to give them independence
>>538091558no cope cages
>>538095484Germans did not even get to a street fighting level of Battle of Moscow. Which is a magnitude more complex situation compared to Stalingrad. They'd probably get destroyed by 1943 if they managed to get there sooner.
>>538101441Yes the french and british colonial empires used colonial troops from their colonies during both world wars.I don't think Indians from the british colonies and Slavic volunteers in the Wehrmacht is a good comparison.
>>538101623If they could've captured Stalin then maybe they could've put a stop to the war since he was hated by everyone.Otherwise they would've been stretched to thin and ended up in a cauldron.
>>538101740>I don't think Indians from the british colonies and Slavic volunteers in the Wehrmacht is a good comparison.Why?
>>538102132Do you really have to ask?lol lmao
>>538091558Please understand, Germany is a poor countryThey weren't just fighting the USSR, they were fighting all of NATORussians were making Boris Johnsons in their secret biolabs
>>538102238you do know indians volunteered as well, right?
>>538091558German autism believing foreigner they choose democratically as their Fuhrer, that they can conquer country with 2.5 population more, much more space and industry like 10x their when they have air hand tied by Britain (East Front Luftwaffe was getting crumbs, see when they got FW190), with logistical leg in Africa leaking bucket draining resources because Rommel went rogue (disregarded orders to just stabilize front and you had to give oil to Italian Fleet, several time), one eye blinded by Norway iron defence and constantly having to watch back at already conquered countries, where partisans were emerging; and he made them believe they will do so in half a year special operation, so not much preparation will be needed; and it will be so easy, why not take on America by the way>>538091884survived in China and spread to USA and EU
>>538102307What are you doing in Switzerland by the way Mr Ranjeet?
Without lend-lease the war would probably have ended in stalemate with neither side able to overcome the other.But we'll never know for sure.As others have said, the key battles of Moscow (1941) and Stalingrad (1942) were won by Soviets before much foreign material support had arrived.Probably the Russians would have pushed the Germans back into Baltics/Belarus/Ukraine, but then offensive would have stalled.War would probably have gone on for years with two sides throwing meat at each other without decisive result.
>>538101096They were RIGHT there, and they turned around.
>>538102501america would just have nuked germany around 1945
>>538094035>what is Volkssturmretard
>>538091558Greece defeated the Italians, Mussolini promised to take Greece quickly, Italians were piled up into dead nigger storages in Greek mountains, then Germans had to divert an entire air,sea, land force into Greece, stalling Russian invasion, leading to being trapped in the cold without proper protection
>>538094035>USSR mobilized womenactually big blunder for Germany for not mobilizing them early, instead breedingyou could put them in industry making ammo or something, instead tying up food for growing Volksturm teenagers in 45 if they even matured then enoughhad to rely on few millions Italian workers, and later prisoners from camps, hence sabotaged Me 262 by simple rag left in engine
>>538091558The landings in Sicily. Really.Germany was stabilising the front but had to pull units out to help in the med.Had that not happened, they could have stabilised the front and reorganised for a counter-offensive.
>>538091884You lost tranny
>>538094302>90+ octanekek, some soviet engines run on fucking parafinealso nazis had what 85-95?
>>538102891Women were used militarily but not on the front lines as soldiers in accordance with western cultural tradition. They were employed at AA batteries and such however.The soviets were more practical, they sent anyone and everyone with little regard into the grinder.
>>538091558Failure to pick a single goal and stick to it. Taking Moscow or St. Petersberg would have been the ideal outcome. Also failing to account for the inevitability of winter and prepare more as well as being unprepared to deal with millions of prisoners which lead to the barbarity of the eastern front.
>>538098083so you recommend starting Barbarossa attack in Rasputitsa time? there were unnaturally heavy rains then
the japs let them down
>>538101870Debatable they could capture Stalin with 1.5-2million men (and incoming) in the capitol. It's also debatable how much was Stalin actually hated, he seemed to have uncanny control over his minions and especially those who could realistically band together to harm him. I suggest reading Kotkin's bio of the man.Secondly, Barbarossa was an outlandish concept which had as about much chance of success as lowering the carbon footprint of humanity. Hitler was an equivalent of vibe coder, he always went all in and let the bigger picture be damned. He got extraordinarly lucky three times in a row (Sudetenland, France, Barbarossa up to late 1942) but the dice rolled on him as it always does.
>>538102928>The landings in Sicily. Really.That happened during Kursk battle in 1943War was already going badly for Germany by that point. Given imbalance of forces at Kursk it's hard to see how Germany could have prevailed, even without Sicilian diversion.More likely Sicily gave Hitler an excuse to do what he already wanted to do, because he knew Kursk was lost, and this way he could blame the loss on the Italians.
>>538091558>What went wrongThe operation itself. It was a poor strategic decision overall and never had any chance of success.
>>538100364Yes, and they were never trusted and seen as equalEducate yourself, sweaty
>>538104769>Yes, and they were never trusted and seen as equal>Educate yourself, sweatyBut they themselves fought on with determination to free their homeland of jewish bolsjevism.That's the only thing that counts.Why aren't you partaking in the war against Ukraine?Are you not a man?
>>538099400Meanwhile, the Germans were continually having to divert resources fighting partisans which they themselves had created through their own brutality towards the native population. Most of those that did serve for them were either useful idiots or had been pressed into service because they faced starvation in prisoner of war camps. Hitler's totalising view of racial war is what lost him the Eastern Front. If he wanted to win the war, he would have offered the Ukrainians, Balts, and White Russians independence, but he didn't, primarily because Hitler (by his own words) believed Slavs were incapable of governing themselves and deserved to be subjected to enslavement and starvation.
>>538102307
>>538104940>Meanwhile, the Germans were continually having to divert resources fighting partisans which they themselves had created through their own brutality towards the native population.Nah they tasked locals with fighting partisans, that's why they created SS handschar and other similar police units.Then of course there was Dirle and the boys, penal squads buck breaking the partisans who where deemed as criminals at the time. (they were)
>>538101003The Soviets had already relocated their industrial base beyond the Urals and the Siberian reserves still existed, regardless of whether they had taken Moscow. Once the German Army takes Moscow and Stalin relocates, what next? They are now occupying a city without a functioning water or food system, thousands of miles from their bases in Poland, with railways that don't use German gauges, and dwindling supplies. The likely result is Festung Moskau becomes the Moskau Kessel - like Stalingrad. The irony is, in real life, it was only Hitler's intervention that stopped a total rout outside Moscow. His generals were not geniuses and had largely outlived their used-by date after the Fall of France. The irony of course is Hitler's logic made more strategic sense: annihilate the Soviet armies in the field in massive pincer movements instead of focusing on Moscow itself. In the end, none of this matters, because it was a failed venture from the start due to Nazi ideology.
