Refute this.
No, because it's correct
>>538304147> FASCISM!!!!!1111!!!It sure was easy to get the left to forget about free healthcare, student loan forgiveness and a livable wage
>>538304147it is insane that a nurse in California has to pay up to 35% in taxes.
>>538304147Why should I have to bankroll the disorganized lives of NEETS and bums?
Refute THIS
>>538304373here is how much a nurse in California (a state with an income tax) makes Vs Florida (a state with no income tax)
straw man
>>538304520forgot the image.
>>538304147lmao this is the funniest meme I seen in a minute though
>>538304539the nurse in California makes 3000$ more
>"capitalism is bad because...">describes judaismerry time
>>538304147Communism is a stateless ideology that has no answer to what they would do if a bunch of individuals decided to refuse it and form their own state rejecting communism.Socialism is wrong because "seizing the means of production" means stripping individual ownership away from people. Not only that but it strips the capacity for the individual themselves to determine how they value things as this is taken over by the central planners. The central planners now get to decide what everyone else values (but they fundamentally cannot even do this without input from individuals)https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_calculation_problem
>>538304147It's called passing the buck, it's the only trick of communism, which has no other tricks
>>538304539nurses are the bourgeoisie that Marx warned us about.
Leftoids often confuse "capitalism" (a nonsensical term concocted by Marxists) with corporatism. The latter is a product of government.
>>538304147Capitalism is neither good nor bad, it requires morality to bind its behavior in order to ensure the former over the later.Communism works until someone doesn't do their fair share of the work and people rightfully stop putting effort in to support them rapidly cascading to a system collapse.No matter what system is used it must be voluntary or it is morally wrong. Capitalism is the best system because it enables one to benefit from your own goods/efforts. All the bad examples of capitalism are just departures and perversions of this basic common sense.
>>538304613KEKyou just proved the meme correct dumb fuckerLMAO
>>538304147>because all economic power is concentrated is the hand of the StateHow is that Capitalism?
>>538304735I define "capitalism" as a regular -ism(ism means belief in arabic), the ism of capital. "Capital" is simply a means of wealth exchange. So in theory Capitalism is the belief in a means of wealth exchange.
>>538304821How so?
>>538304147
>>538304147Communism is kike culture, and im not a mentally ill kike.
>>538304147Because centrally planed economies dont work on large scales.Because people dont actually want to do the hard jobs unless you force them to or kill them for being defectors.Because the organs of government will become paranoid, allow your neighbors to report you for nothing and make you sit in a broom closet with 20 other people for 3 days until the official forces a false crime from you so you can do free labor for the state.And many many more reasons.
>>538305073Oh no don't worry. You'll have plenty of people lining up to go do work like under water welding where they might explode out of their decompression chambers with little to no extra incentive despite the risk.
>>538304613>that has no answer to what they would do if a bunch of individuals decided to refuse it and form their own state rejecting communismThey shoot them or put them in gulags, wtf are you talking about?
>>538304147Yes having a home and affordable healthcare sucks ass.
>>538304147yeah but I’m more like a patriotic socialist.like I really care about my people and don’t want them exploited or replaced by cheaper labor you know?or I want a high trust society and don’t want foreigners to bring their shitty culture into my country.better yet, one who really wants to improve his nation and tell his people they shouldn’t be ashamed for what their ancestors created and how Our Creator made us.you know what I mean? :)also Sage faggot
>>538304147Capitalists create. Commies take. Why is sacred mantra of the communist party is to seize the means of production, rather than to create it?
>>538304147The one redeeming aspect of communism is all the dead communists
>>538305241Communism is fundamentally a stateless ideology. Who is doing the shooting in your instance? Are you thinking of socialism?
what's the difference between communism and national socialism
>>538304373Yes, that is literally due to capitalism. Billionaires don't get taxed while regular people have a third of their wage taken.
>>538304580now if you include cost of living.a nurse in Florida ends up with 1000$ more dollars as disposable income than a nurse in California. a state with NO income tax and state tax.again... I would have no problem with still paying my 20% in a sate life Florida. but 30+ nah homie, specially to a state that lets the whole world in???
>>538304147Communism is retarded because authoritarian states simply do not dissolve themselves. This is indisputable.
HE DOES HAVE A GOOD POINTHE'S RIGHT YOU KNOWNOW THAT THE DUST HAS SETTLEDSAY SOMETHING NICEPOWERFULREALLY MAKES YOU THINKWHAT ARE THE POLITICAL IMPLICATIONSPUBLIC TRANSPORTATIONKNEELPOLITICALLY SPEAKINGAPOLOGIZEBASED OR CRINGELET ME GUESS YOU NEED MOREHOW DO YOU RESPOND WITHOUT SOUNDING MADWHAT DID HE MEAN BY THISWHY DO AMERICANSWHO WAS IN THE WRONGDAILY REMINDERWELL /POL/YOUR RESPONSEIT'S OVERPOL CAN'T REFUTE THISTHIS IS THE POST THAT KILLED /POL/POL BTFOTHOUGHTS?
>>538305364Billionaires do get taxed. It is just that they do not make income. There are likely middle class people who make larger incomes than some multi-millionaires. Now ask yourself why these people are so wealthy? It is not because they are stealing from anyone. It is because other human retards keep making increasing purchases towards the same assets these people own. The reason why musk is worth what he is is because other human individuals choose to raise him to his position.
>>538304147The problem has very little to do with the economic system. Clearly some are more effective than others at "a rising tide raises all ships", but any system in which jews are participating is bound to fail because of the parasitic nature of kikes.
>>538304147Meme is basically "I know you are, but what am I".
>>538305301>Who is doing the shooting in your instance?A willing citizen, are you retarded
>>538304147You're merely making the same mistake on the other side of the coin OP. Which makes me sad that this is a bait thread because good genuine conversation could be had about the underlying issues with either system, and how they are both prone to the ever evil demon of overcentralized power and authority ruining it for the little guy.
All communists deserve death.
>>538304390Your taxes would be a blip compared to what big businesses would pay but keep slobbering on the boot like it’s prom night
>>538304147100% correct and we need to find a solution to it
>>538305384>a nurse in Florida ends up with 1000$ more dollars as disposable income than a nurse in California.every month.
>>538305364How is capitalism to be blamed for problems stemming from government?
>>538305364No, that's socialism. Eliminate the gibs and you can eliminate all non-business taxes.
>>538304147>capitalism is bad because >[describes crony corporatism]!
neither the strawman in the meme nor I really have any place to describe let alone criticize any ideology.Both materialist ideologies dehumanize all those under the pyramid. So it doesnt fucking matter.You break your back and suffer under both unless youre rich and powerful. best i have is that humans dont deserve capitalism or communism.Humans deserve to die.Like all living things.
>>538306800>crony corporatismCalling it late stage capitalism is more honest.
>>538304147>1pbtidHey OP you obviously have an ideal in your head that you think others should also adhere to. But you aren't even willing to engage with others in order to champion your ideal? Why is that?How the hell would anyone ever take you seriously. Say you were to be put into a shot calling position. And you start getting hard questions from real living humans. How would handle that?
>>538306868Only to a socialist
>>538304147capitalist never killed 20 million people in gulags and spat on their graves, you did
>>538304147Sure.>USSR>Khmer rouge>Stalin>Mao>(andsoforth)You may try new things unburdened, communism is not a new thing.
>>538306932Lol lmaoYou suck at history bro.
>>538304147the communist will never understand supply and demand just is and always will be and can never be got rid of and interfering with that just causes famine and poverty and want and tyranny vastly worrse than 'le ebil imaginary capitalism'which is why op is on here shitting on the graves of all those murdered for his nmonsense or who had to queue for meat rations in poland in the 80s, all those families who lost a loved one to black mariahs. the world would be better off with op dead
>>538307052you can suck a fucking bullet commie
>>538306800You know how you say that communism is against human nature because who would be given that kind of power and not abuse it and therefore the communist utopia of sharing alike will never happen?It's true. The problem that the exact same thing happens with capitalism and crony corporatism. You can't let people be billionaires with lobby capability and not end up with crony corporatism. It is equally as against human nature as ever going from the party control to end stage communism.
>>538307052It's not history to me, I know people who lived through it and you are living insult to them
>>538304147Its literally the other way around you projecting troon.
>>538306908How do you wish to achieve true capitalism
>>538307186Ya if you really wanted to change things. You'd have your representatives be completely beholded to your voters. Outlaw lobbying and setup a system in which minecrafts state representatives for accepting lobbying.
>>538307186A communist witha DEUS VULT memeflag when communism is atheist. Sad retarded fools communists and evil.
>>538307170We will all suck bullets homie>>538307222Alright dude you had people live through communist atrocity while keeping blind eye to capitalist atrocity.They must pay you really well
>>538304147>Communism is worse because capitalism is a great system that enables a free market Sounds right to me, retarded $0ycuck. This you?
>>538307473Wrong, communists excel at mudering each other most of all. It is a death cult.
>>538307512Capitalists do the same thing bud
>>538307512How exactly? What communist policies or actions, as in communist in nature or goal , were used to commit genocides?
>>538304520Same thing with illinois/indianaIllinois has maybe 10-15% higher tax with 25%+ higher wages across the board, you can literally drive 5 minutes across the border and the pay for the same job will be like 10/hr difference Right wing policies sound fantastic but I've noticed in person they always lead to poor infrastructure, no services, just all around much lower quality of lifeAnd the funniest part is if you're low income Illinois will be much more likely to work with you and give you a break whereas Indiana gone make you pay
>>538307632Hey man if that Gaza bullshit is a genocide then so are those 60 million dead chinks and the holodomor.I'd rather it all be nonsense because for the most part it really is, but if you're gonna whine about genocides commies aren't gonna bullshit their way out of not literally being that and worse.
>>538304147Because resources aren't fucking infinite.End of goddamned story, you can't give everyone shit you're incapable of producing so everyone at the bottom get absolutely destroyed while a miniscule number of people at the top live better than kings. And if you claim >nuuuuuuuh that's capitalismMother FUCKER I enjoy shit KINGS didn't have 50 years ago because of fucking capitalism get RAPED by niggers you fucking lying like faggot.
>>538307478Do you write fanfics of Margret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan?
>>538307473Capitalists have not done half the atrocity that your average communist society indulges in.
>>538304147This has never happened before
>>538307632> a communist who has never heard "kulak"Communists and not understanding communism. Name a more iconic duo.
>>538304389Who runs the capitalist nations? And why were there people with the name Rosenberg with the Nazis.Jews are everywhere, regardless of ideology
>>538305544>Now ask yourself why these people are so wealthy?Their wealth compounds and they use the dividends/interest to buy more assets and eventually own more and moreHave to tax the wealth, income taxes aren't doing anything at this point
>>538307799Banana republicsThalidomideAsbestosamerica when it was maiming children repairing sewing machines.You are a retard fag.
>>538307767Quality of life is going down, retard. This isn't the early 2000s any more.
>>538307917>banana republicsWere mostly socialist.>thalidomideCapitalism is to blame for a failed medication? That's an insane stretch.>child laborThat's a very communist thing too.
>>538305294Ironically this meme was seized from an 'AI' instead of the poster creating it himself.Also, it is the strong who take. If you say that commies take axiomatically, then Communists -> strong. Good for them.
>>538307731Genocide requires some sort of group targeting usually of ethnic groups but I get what you meanI’m genuinely asking what kind of polices that were put in place that caused them>Gaza bullshitTel Aviv approves
>>538304147National socialism is better than both. jews love to keep goyim in a dichotomy of division.
>>538304147Communism and capitalism are both Jewish control mechanisms for host societies. Jews themselves don't practice either, they just do gangsterism and nepotism.
>>538304735Corporatism is just a later stage of capitalism. Capitalism implies the creation of a rich class that will then buy up the media and politicians to create corporatism which then results in the current situation. It's a natural phase of capitalism.
>>538307841I’m just trying to learn anon
>>538308116Okay, well, the soviets intentionally killed ukrainian christians, because they were ukrainian and because they were christian. The ussr was an officially athiest state and persecuted christians for its existence.
>>538304390You already bankroll NEETs and even work for them every time you pay for something or work for a company or pay rent.It’s just that they call themselves CEOs and landlords, and everyone pretends like they do work.At least with Welfare, it’s going towards people who actually need it and more often people who work 60 hour weeks because their employers refuse to pay them enough to live.
>>538304147>Refute this.I can't.
>>538307986>Capitalism is to blame for a failed medication? That's an insane stretch.Why, because you can't handwave it away? The medication was created to make profit and it was improperly tested due to that reducing profit and it wasn't audited in time because of multiple reasons, corruptuion being one of them, i.e. self-enriching, which is the ideal esposed by which system?It's not a stretch if you don't have an answer to it.>>child labor>That's a very communist thing too.So the British and German Empiree were Communist? What about the states in the US currently en route bring back child labor? It's not commiefornia orMamdani doing that from what I'm told.>>banana republics>Were mostly socialist.Some might have been, some not. Proves nothing, tells us nothing.
>>538308145
>>538308228>child laborIt's a feature of most economic systems. Pot and kettle.>banana republics are a pushWhich is why it's silly to blame on capitalism.>medicine is capitalism.It's more you are bringing assumptions into that make it rediculous. By saying thalidomide is a fault of capitalism, you are saying that capitalism is responsible for all medicine. That is a bizarre perspective to take, and one I do not agree with, but is inherent to that position. As for thalidomide itself, the american medical system is hardly capitalist, being more regulated and more government funded than germany's. It was also pulled off the market in record time for a government approved medication, being market active for under a decade.
>>538304147>Refute this.Simple. Communism/Socialism = Jewish.
>>538308228>>538307986>banana republics>Were mostly socialist.The cause of banana republics are poverty and bad genetics. The poverty is caused by sanctions the international banking cartel installs on them by cutting them out of global trade.
>>538308515The fucking cognitive dissonance you people have of the right being the pro-Israel party is insane
>>538307986The problem with the banana republics isn’t their supposed government type it’s them being set up by corporations to allow incredibly favorable policies that allow them to extract resources from the area with very little benefit besides to the corporation
>>538307468May I suggest you go back to .. oh, fourth grade reading class add come back when you finish it
>>538306800Unchecked capitalism is crony corporatism, which is just another way to say communism. Congrats you are a cattle for kikes.
>>538308920Oh, so the problem with the socialist countries is they did socialist things?
>>538304520>>538304539Florida is a shit hole low pay, as good as being on the border of Mexico, State. There's a huge disconnect between costs and what people actually earn, and for most of the State its not like people can just move further away from their place of employment to live cheaper.Housing prices are pretty much uniform from a two miles inland all the way to the everglades. At least bad neighborhoods are being wiped out, and niggers being sent to Georgia.
>>538307900And why exactly does that happen? Hmmmm?Do you think there is a great black box money machine that exists in which if you throw money into more money comes back out? Have you ever questioned why more money comes back out?
>>538305364In the US, the top 1% contributes 40% of the tax revenue but accounts for 22% of the income in the economy.
>>538308792Does this retarded nigger actually think anyone here is pro GOP?>inb4 the attempted gotcha that "but well that's national socialism!"
>>538307900Is your car an asset? How about all the things in your home. Those are all assets no? I mean you could always choose to sell all the things in your home for dollars. So those are therefore assets right? Should you have to pay a tax every year for all the things you own in your home?
>>538309710>socialism is when a government mistreats its populace, and funnels all the wealth they generate to their politically connected allies.Yeah, that's a socialism alright. If you don't speak right winger, when they criticise socialism and communism, that is what they criticise. The nigh-enslavement of the productive population for the benefit of politically connected oligarchs. That is a defining feature of every communist country, and perhaps the only true communism.
>>538304147We have been in a depression worse than the Great Depression for literally 30 years now and glowniggers, politician whores and billionaire child fucking rapists are insisting on making it worse every single day specifically and explicitly for capitalist reasons. And they're still bitching non-stop about non-existent communism. There is a reckoning coming. It's coming soon. And none of the wicked will survive it.
>>538305364Taken by WHOThe organization that still would exist under either economic system
>>538308320Thesis = (((communism))) aka (((international socialism)))Antithesis = (((capitalism))) aka (((international finiance)))Synthesis = all the worlds wealth in the hands of the jews.
>>538304147You lost trannyGo ack yourself
>>538304147Death to communism
Discord trannies and gayper defectives are going to push DSA hard at decent but disaffected anons at /pol/ getting screwed by the system (and at their fellow defectives)
More government is always bad guys. For you commie zoomers in here, you are in a cult.
>>538310086Death to your entire family, glownigger.
>>5383041471pbtid.
>>538305364the US is the most centrally planned economy of all-time and it's not even closecalling it heckin capitalism doesn't change the reality
>>538310122Musk's entire net worth, giga-huge though it may be, is a FRACTION of what the government collects in a single year. If you want rich people poorer, rob them if you want but in the end you're still stuck with a pack of incompetents handling the disbursement. if you expect me to go along with "better incompetent than malicious" all I can tell you is that it's never a mutually exclusive selection.
>>538310122>more government is betterOk retard
>>538304271Fpbp
>>538310311While the communists are obviously insane, you also have to do some introspection and ask yourself how Elon has so much money when he clearly didn't work for it. To put it in perspective, Elon's descendants will be wealthy for the next 10,000 years. Sure he contributed some to the economy, but these numbers are definitely ludocrious.
>>538305294>Capitalists createThe workers create, the capatalists take.
>>538310407So you want me to rely on the pack of incompetents to handle that?
>>538310434And they're both useless cunts without each other.
>>538307866Yes
It doesn't matter what system a nation has. If you allow jews to participate, it ends badly. If the nation is just White, it will be fine no matter what system it uses.
>>538310556No I think just like in a videogame that's poorly programmed, there are "hacks" in the system enabling people to build up vsst fortunes totally disconnected from the real world. I think most of them are involving the stock market, which has been deliberately set up as a gambling house.As a result we have this oligarchy. Unless they reform the system we will inevitably start going communist. It's incumbent on Republicans to cut the crap and stop shelling out for the wealthy every t10 minutes and make some reforms, or else we are legit going communist
>>538304147Shocker that a faggot starting a thread with one of those tiresome "look at this Trump supporter" images is defending communism.
>>538310434Idk man my boss paid for all the shit in the restaurant and I never paid a dime. What did I create exactly?
>>538304147Simple because communism is built on one simple core idea. That all races are equal. This is in fact a sick lie. The nigger, spic, jeet, and kike are all dirt scum compared to the glory of the white race.
>>538310712I noticed you had no argument
>>538309243The corporations owned the states and not the other way around so no and there wasn’t any real ideas of wealth redistribution through any social programs besides the bare necessities no ideas of worker cooperatives or unions just privately owned businesses using their wealth and power to make sure their interests were secured so they even overthrew regimes that offered actual socialist policies like giving land from foreign corporations to local farmersIt’s not like people on the left don’t get what you’re saying with socialism Bernie Sanders calls it corporate socialism all the time but that’s only based on government subsidies and bailouts of privately owned businesses that use their private capital to lobby for this and not on based on any sort tenants of Marxist theory But any sort of government interference/intervention is socialism so it probably won’t get through
>>538304735retard
>>538304853That is not what capital is
>>538307420>true capitalism hasn't been tried yetI can hear it now once shit gets even worse.
>>538311008>there were no social programs so it doesn't count.The behavior was entirely redistributive. They no longer had to redistribute to the underclass, because they had captured the state. Redistribution to the underclass is only a feature in countries that have not finished becoming socialist. Once they are socialist, it is redistributive to the oligarchs.>corporate socialismSee, the right sees this, and criticises it, and you call it simping for billionaires. The right, correctly, recognizes the current system is not capitalist, and champions reform that would reduce the power of megacorps. The left calls it simping for billionaires. The right wants reforms that would build real wealth for non-oligarchs, and the left calls it simping for billionaries.
>>538305294Because the workers built this shit and it is their state because it is their labor that runs it. Rich kikes playing speculative capital the trading card game and handing money back and forth is not actually productive economically
>>538304147True capitalism hasn't been done yet.
>>538311199I really am curious lol
>>538311008>Marxist >theoryContradiction in terms. Marx comes from a philisophical tradition. His game is to bady about language, like materialism, dilectics, ism ism ism. These debates are mostly about whoever has the better verbal prowess. Science is a totally different tradition that ties thinking to the real world. Obseration. Data. Experiment. Totally different strain of thinking from marxism which is bullshit at the root. Collectivist ideas can function alright if they are done by scientific reasoning. But it can't work by marxists who are ideological, religious zealots .
>>538304147communism and capitalism are two sides of the same jewish coin>QED
>>538310711>Voting our way outOh, you
>>538311244It’s not redistribution if it stays in the hands of the wealthy lol that is using wealth to create more wealth the main policies the corporations enforced in the banana republics after overthrowing former regimes was tax breaksI think you just mean wealth distribution not redistributionFor the right it’s enacting ideas of true capitalism which would pull all funding and cause these huge corporations to fall and a have a huge economic crash ensue until large businesses arrive again and the cycle repeats instead of changing the structure of the businesses or atleast taxing their immense wealth for social programs that benefit others
>>538310344Kill yourself
>>538304147>give me free stuffevery aspect of communism is jewish
>>538311324Or maybe you just don’t care to try and understand and use PragerU type arguments
>>538311839>give me free stuff or else*>>538311857>you don’t care to understandKill yourself
>>538311784>if it goes into the hands of the wealthy it's not redistribution.Incorrect. They redistribute wealth from the underclass to the oligarchs. That is still redistribution>won't someone think of the corporations!Well this is a crazy point to hear from a socialist. Market monopolies are caused by government action. Big megacorps are a feature of government intervention in the market, not a bug. It's why socialists lobby for it.
>>538307420There is no "true" capitalism since it's not an ideology but a mode of economics that emphasizes a market economy that prioritizes private incentives and ownership. There are degrees of how loose and firm you can play capitalism, from a demand-side or a supply-side and all combinations in between. It's like asking what a "true market economy" looks like. The question is flawed from the get go.
>>538304147This >>538310604(((Jewish capitalism and / or jewish communism))) (((Liberals and / or Conservatives))) (((Jewish / Niggerized / Lbgt / Faggots / Reptiles / Piggers / Fake / Cringe "alternatives")))Blah blah blah Straight White Non Jewish separations and separate territories, Anons
>>538311857Are you particularly keen on mr. "withering of the state"? Every communist country that failed became capitalist. Every one that still exists made their hegelian synthesis as a mixed system economy. Just like we are, "free market" my fucking left nut.
Maga are pussies.
>>538306800>democrats are bad because>[described repubilcans]
>>538311258It was outlawed by jews
>>538311857This "philosophy" stuff was popular in Eastern Europe in the early 1900s. They didn't have science which was mostly associated with British territories and the US.The way that scientists reason is called the "scientific method". Observation, data, experiment. Open debate and dialogue. You probably learned this in 8th grade.But "philosophy" works like this>a impressive looking man with a grey beard makes bold pronouncements >he is taken seriously because he's so wise and impressive looking>a cult of personality forms, almosy like a religious cult>if you disagree with the old man, you are an idiot. Do not question, do not disagree. >if too many people disagree we will call them pathalogicalThat's how all these movements coming out of Eastern Europe worked. Including Ayn Rand by the way.Kevin Macdonald documents this in his book "culture of critique". Jews came to america from eastern europe bringing this "philisophical" reasoning and created hige conflicts with American academics who were Anglo scientists. To this day the left largely leans on this unscientific philophical guys.
>ophuman behavior deeply connected to biology
>>538312233That's sophistry. Not disputing the post.
>>538304147Capitalism creates excess supply, which they then destroy to maintain the in-demand supply value.Communism creates excess demand, which they destroy by killing a bunch of people.
>>538312404I'm just telling you how it is. .Science is the expression of the logical, dispassionate Germanic brain. The soul of Europe. The philosophy shit is a hall of mirrors, a tangle of lies. The expression of the mind of the jew, who authored all religion.
>>538312202How is this bad? Imagine you invest your hard-earned money into a company and the CEO distributes all the profits as bonuses to the employees instead of dividends, how is that capitalism? If you want to do whatever the fuck you want with your company then DON'T make it publicly traded, SCOTUS was based on that one
>>538311971>Incorrect. They redistribute wealth from the underclass to the oligarchs. That is still redistributionFrom the working class to the capitalist class and what did they have to offer? their land and labor congrats you described what Marx describes as capitalismWhat do you think happens when major industries crash? It has dire consequences and not just for the owner Instead of taking it and having worker ownership or taxing and using the wealth for the people you have it picked apart so we can reach the same situation when someone attains enough wealth
>>538307478Migger.
>>538312612>how is "a man doing what he wants with his property" capitalism?That is the single, central, thesis of capitalism. How is "a man must be forced to give his money to the rich instead of paying his workers" capitalism?
>>538312674Co-ops exist.
>>538312750>a man must be forced to give his money to the rich instead of paying his workersIt's not his money, it's the investors'. Don't play dumb. Capitalism isn't based on vague promises of capital growth in the long term through improving worker conditions, if you want socialism then just come out and say it. If you're going to increase wages or give bonuses or hire more workers it should be tied to a realistic projection of growth for the company. That is the duty of the CEO of a publicly traded corporation.
>>538312674>marx describes capitalism as the redistribution of money from the workers to the wealthy.This is markedly the primary feature of socialism. So are all socialists capitalists?>you right wingers want to pick the industry apart and spread it to a bunch of peopleAgain, this is a wild thing to hear from a socialist. Generally, giant market crashes are features of command economies. The US didn't have a giant economic downturn until it had a command economy, and since then it's been fairly regular. In a market economy, as businesses become unprofitable, they get sold to smaller businesses, and the entire industry doesn't go poof. Businesses only get as big as they do in the modern day with socialist intervention in the markets.
>>538304147because it depends on other people money to work, when the tap is turn off, the system collapse.
>>538312901>it's not his money. It's the investor's.False. The investors have what they paid for, the stock. Commanding the man uses his profits for his investors is not capitalism. Redistributing his wealth is socialism.>increasing workers wages is socialismIt's famously the opposite. The thing that increases wages is capitalism.
You mean the same communism that turned China into a thriving power houseCommunism is the world’s future, the West needs to learn from China.
>>538304390>>538304395Shut the fuck up now
The true Enlightenment is when you realize that labels like communism and capitalism are psychological deceptions taught to you from a young age by the elites from understanding a true righteous government governed by the principles of Jesus Christ incorporating what some may consider capitalism and communism and other forms of economics together for the good of the peopleThe powerful wants you to believe it's either one way or the other but it's really whatever you make it
>>538313025>False. The investors have what they paid for, the stock.>Hey guys, why don't you give me money so I can grow my business and you can get a cut of the profits?>a few quarters later>OY VEY! HOW DARE YOU EXPECT ME TO SHARE THE PROFITS OF MY COMPANY WITH YOU! THAT'S LITERALLY SOCIALISMYou're describing a scam, retard. The moment a business becomes public, it's not your business, it's an entity of its own with a duty to ALL investors, thus it can't be subject to every whim of any majority holder. SCOTUS was right and you're grasping at straws.
>>538312925Free market requires logical reasoning. The members of the market make well-informed choices according to self interest.But if you can find avenues in society where people are behaving irrationally, or lack information, or you can get a monoply and cut off their choice. All of these are "hacks" in the system. That is no longer free market.A man operating under lust will act irrationally. That man is no longer making rational choices, he's free to be exploited. The same as a man operating under the influence of a drug, whether it's heroin or cane sugar in his donut. That man is driven by deep compulsions and his rational mind is no longer in play.Basically any of the 7 deadly sins are exploits on the human being. These are avenues when humans need the guidance of a greater authority to step in and save them from their bad choices. Like for example, the stock market ignites gambling fevers in people. It also introduces gaps in information that can be exploited. You cam generate billions of dollars for yourself without doing a single iota of work in the real world.So you're arguing for a simple economy of markets and self interest. But human beings are a bit more complicated than that. There's other emotions other than greed that you can use to accomplish good for society.
>>538313035You're describing capitalism
>>538304147I'll refute it with a hammer to your skull.
>>538313025Stock is literal ownership of a company retard. Shareholders own the company.
>>538313276And there's other ones you can prey upon, like envy.>>538313261>the scotus was right! You can't just use the money of your company how you wish!He does have a duty to share holders, and he was upholding it. He made a market for his own product. To say he was abandoning the interests of his business is quite a stretch.>but the investors don't get quick churn cash!That is not a guarantee in the market. The ford company got more valuable under ford's leadership. The investors still made money.
>>538312925>The US didn't have a giant economic downturn until it had a command economy?Wtf are you talking about it had the Great Depression and the command economy of the US needed for WW2 is known to have economically revitalized the us lolAnd again you change words because you don’t understand and want to think corruption=socialism >>538313429Has to be trolling
>>538304589That would be the current situation, yeah.
the easiest way to tell if a nation is capitalist is to see how much their government enables their business community to import cheap labor or export their business to where there is cheaper labor.this was the very first feature of capitalism when they bought up the rural commons to kettle cheap labor into the cities to drive down wages.
>>538304147You don’t actually need to refute anything, let them win the debates in their head and keep losing in the physical world
>>538313025>The thing that increases wages is capitalismTrue, but only when the labor market isn't rigged, and when shareholders are not a priveleged class.People have a short term memory, but prior to Covid people were complaining about a labor shortage, and wages actually went up (last time they fucking did). Meanwhile my friend in Japan gets her job to do whatever she wants them to because workers are so scarce there. (Probably why they're bringing Jeets in)The ultimate issue will always be the elites trying to rig the system against them, whether it's communism or capitalism. What socialism in the modern sense tries to accomplish is to give more power back to the average worker from the elites. It's just plagued with weird autistic and emotional sorts that muddle that message sadly.
>>538313356What is China buying from Americans? Capitalism means goods are going back and forth in a free market, China has zero interest in American goods and services. China has a totally different and independent economic system.
>>538307937>a retarded lieYou act like that makes faggot commies a better choice.Die screaming in agony.
>>538313519>`My ambition,' declared Mr. Ford, `is to employ still more men; to spread the benefits of this industrial system to the greatest possible number, to help them build up their lives and their homes. To do this, we are putting the greatest share of our profits back into the business.'Does this really sound like capitalism to you? Ford basically said he was going to reinvest most of the profits into the company (95%, specifically, instead of paying it as dividends) to IMPROVE THE WORKERS LIVES – not to increase profits, not to grow the business, but to help his fellow men. He was basically robbing the shareholders (including Dodge, which is why they sued) of 95% of THEIR MONEY to give it to workers. That is definitely NOT capitalism. If you think Ford was a good guy (he was) you're more of a socialist than you previously thought.
I'm sick of the jews and all the retards that worship their various systems of controlcan't we just have something not created by jews again? Go back 2000 years for a system created by our ancestors that isn't jew derived - then modify it to our needs
>We've never tried true communism/socialismThey always say that living in a capitalist country. Move to another country. Indians can do it, so can you.
>>538313214This guy gets it. Migrats look ridiculous screeching about MUH GOMMIES. Idk how anyone takes these senile cunts seriously, communists don’t actually exist as a political column and they haven’t since the goddamn Reagan administration.
>>538314145Communism isn’t real. Capitalism isn’t either. You’re wasting your time arguing semantics while the president insider trades to the tune of billions, capitulates to a hostile foreign power (Pissrael), and somehow isn’t jailed for it.
>>538313942>What socialism in the modern sense tries to accomplish is to give more power back to the average worker from the elites.How do you figure that? Because the puppets promise the same shit from twenty years ago that no one delivered? Some of us have heard this song and dance before. There's a reason they need unmitigated immigration to get in power.
>>538313942>give more power backPlacating the plebs does not entail any real power changing hands.
>>538305006this, it's some form of meme mind-virus that attracts the fuckups of a society like flies to shit. It's feminine, matriarchal, utopian nonsense ideology based around envy, and greed, so no surprise of it's (((origins))). I could leave it there, but once you've read about their almost mandatory atrocities, and interact with a few of them, it just seems like comes from a dark, metaphysical realm.
>>538314453Le gommunism bogeyman isn’t real you dumb degenerate boomer. Stop watching Newsmax, it’s making you into a hysterical cunt
>>538314300>There's a reason they need unmitigated immigration to get in powerThe entirety of migrants has no ethnic ties amongst each other. They are more likely to develop class consciousness.
>>538304147>capitalism is le bad because [describes communism]Wow horseshoe theory is real
>>538314041The U.S government made this illegal. They forced him to divert profits away from workers and improvements and towards his (((shareholders))) instead.
