the core of marxism is basically>if we give this group of people unrestrained power to rape, kill, murder, torture and imprison whoever they like in the name of the revolution then eternal utopian paradise of nonstop euphoria for all will inevitably result due to *laws of history*this is immediately recognized as both retarded and evil by everyone, but the way marxists get past this is to redefine state violence and oppression as being inherently about capitalism and market based processes. this piece of inane sophistry is regarded by marxists as a jewel of intellectual achievement.if it weren't for the fact that marxists have been engaged in a process of total subversion of academia for generations marxism would be universally recognized as completely worthless and laughable. generations of marxists have spent their lives in academia being totally unashamed propagandists with zero respect for intellectual honesty or truth-seeking. this kind of behavior is in fact core to marxism because marxism has a notion of truth based around usefulness. in marxism truth is depended on class, each class has its completely own truth and so whatever supposedly furthers the aim of the "global working class" and the coming world revolution is regarded as true.
>>538427536Divide and conquer thread by Israeli stooges.
>>538427536I think the smart move is to drop jews and communists from helicopters into shark infested waters far from shore
>>538427536It’s the most honest ideology
>>538427538they just let you do it too
>>538427536that is not the core of Marxism, OP. You're retarded. Please actually read anything Marx wrote, and I mean a single publication of his cover to cover, not just quote-mined by /pol/ types. I recommend Wage Labour and Capital.
>>538427541Isn’t the core of Marxism reducing people to lowly animals just so that they can say>look, I was right after all
>>538427542read a book
>>538427542Seems like projection. After all, the ultimate goal of fascism is to revive pagan beliefs and degrade human beings to the level of bacteria.
>>538427541Marxist economics and theory is just post hoc rationalization and cope to try to justify their basic aims. Marxists know they're nasty disgusting subhumans who want to murder and torture anyone they regard as superior to themselves. Then they invent moronic theories about laws of history being on their side and inevitably progressing history towards utopia to justify them. There isn't a single person in history who has ever taken marxism seriously as an actual attempt at truly understanding the world.
>>538427545In the time it took you to think up and write that post, you could've read multiple pages of a book. Finishing one would enable you to come up with substantially more intelligent and compelling critiques in the future.
>>538427546They'd rather flay you alive than read a book. Why are you arguing with them?
>>538427545>who want to murder and torture anyone they regard as superior to themselvesMarxists do not murder, because murder is the pursuit of *private* vendettas through homicide. What we do is carry out capital punishment, which is also a feature of many bourgeois states, including the world's most powerful.The targets are not "anyone we regard as superior to ourselves" but members of classes who live by exploiting their fellow man, typically for the crimes inherent in that exploitation (i.e. CEOs who commit "negligent" homicide) along with people involved in rebellion and treason.>but abuses happened/innocent people died/etc.yeah that sucked, happens in every system and sucks there toolet me know if you find a way to ensure it won't happen again
Why do anti-leftists never attack the Jacobins? they were proto-communists. And republicanism is basically left wing
>>53842754999% of the anti-leftism you see here is dressed up american exceptionalism
>>538427550exactly. Attacking communism without attacking (((liberalism))) which is just as jewish is retarded. Ironically communism was more right wing in practice than liberal democracies ever where (nationalism, socially conservative). At least under Stalin. sure communism was started by jews, but by the end of it, the jews moved to the US after trotsky was kicked out of the USSR and moved on to (((liberal capitalism))). By the end no communist nation was controlled by jews.
>>538427548case in point lmao.fucking subhuman.
>>538427542Read a single book in your life, you're embarrassing yourself.
>>538427536>let me tell you what marxism is>gets it really fucking wrongit must be tough to be double digits
>>538427536Yeah, we know.
>>538427536>if we give this group of people unrestrained power to rape, kill, murder, torture and imprison whoever they like in the name of the revolution then eternal utopian paradise of nonstop euphoria for all will inevitably result due to *laws of history*Marxism doesn't say that, you're affirming the consequent of what has sometimes resulted from cynical exploitation of it but the actual foundational works of Marxism and most variants thereof don't advocate vesting unfettered power in anyone, at most they advocate for a Vanguard Party with checks and balances.>if it weren't for the fact that marxists have been engaged in a process of total subversion of academia for generations marxism would be universally recognized as completely worthless and laughable. generations of marxists have spent their lives in academia being totally unashamed propagandists with zero respect for intellectual honesty or truth-seeking. this kind of behavior is in fact core to marxism because marxism has a notion of truth based around usefulness. in marxism truth is depended on class, each class has its completely own truth and so whatever supposedly furthers the aim of the "global working class" and the coming world revolution is regarded as true."If Marxists didn't intellectually substantiate snf spread their views then their views wouldn't be regarded as intellectually substantiated and spread" Really groundbreaking analysis here.>>538427542posting political capeshit by the Sinfest guy in an argument, you're beyond saving
>>538427541>NOOOOOOOO YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND MY COMMIE JEW BOOK YOU HAVE TO WASTE YOUR LIFE READING THIS GARBAGE OTHERWISE YOU ARE WRONG!
>>538427536Material equality is good. Individual competition is evil. Simple as.
>>538427558It's not evil, it's human nature, and it's fun.
>>538427545Read anything man.
>>538427557My favorite part of Mein Kampf was all the silly hats Hitler gave all his friends at the retard farm. What, actually read the book? Go fuck yourself.
>>538427554this is actually someone in the top percentile of rightoids
>>538427541>unsubstantiated dismissal>shill a propaganda book >huff taintThe beginning, middle, and end of Marixst intellectualism gentlemen, as it's proven itself decade on end since it began.Your ideology is insidious and stupid. Stfu.
>>538427558Being a Marxist is your attempt as an individual to compete for social advantages by subverting standards of merit you can't meet. You're a wannabe social engineer.
>>538427554Nobody has any reason to take a Marxist's word for what their own agenda is because they know it's rooted in deception and you're just going to lie about it anyway, and try to slap people down like you're doing now. You're not an intellectual movement and never will be. Stinking up theatres is the part of Rules for Radicals you people have always been best at.
>>538427561I've read both Mein Kampf and Das Kapital. The former is 90% bullshit, but is right about the evil of falling into debts with interests. The latter is about roughly 75% right, 15% unconfirmable, and 10% not-quite-right.Marx stands out the most when he makes social commentary and sociological/historical research, but occasionally fumbles when it comes to analyzing purely numerical data.
>>538427564Nice pilpul, Shekelblatt.
>>538427559Rape is human nature, and it's fun, but it's evil.
>>538427565>Marxism isn't what Marx wrote>it's not what later Marxists said and did>it's whatever I, a guy who hates Marxism, thinks it is, and everything else is lies!Rules for Radicals was written 88 years after Marx's death, btw, by a left-leaning American who was active in nu-left circles but critical of Marx. I don't think Alinsky ever even thought of himself as a Marxist and he certainly wasn't a Communist Party member.
>>538427536>all of the world's most intelligent people study Marxism for past 180 years >continue to study it today>but it's "worthless and laughable" according to Anon 4chanPack it up folks!
>>538427539This is closer to fascism. A person who believes "life is cruel" can not be utopian, "eternal struggle" is more of a fascist thing.
>>538427542This is ALSO closer to fascism. Some communists do believe that man in nature was communal, but fascism is often heavily based in an idealized vision of the past where might ruled. Nazi propoganda famously depicted the vikings and other early germanic people very positively because of their idealization of the violence of the past as well as their pride over heritage.
>>538427559How would you respond to mankind being communal in nature? Kropotkin's "Sociability is as much a law of nature as mutual struggle."?
>>538427566>Marx stands out the most when he makes social commentary and sociological/historical research, but occasionally fumbles when it comes to analyzing purely numerical data.He also couldn't possibly foresee modern technology as it currently exists, and was frankly a bit a fuckhead. That doesn't invalidate his critique of class struggle or of capitalism's structural failures, both of which are extremely useful for understanding modern politics. Alas, just because he got the diagnosis right doesn't mean he had a practical cure.The mistake retards like OP make is in reducing thinkers and theories to tribal markers rather than evaluating them on their own merits, keeping what is useful, and discarding what is not useful. OP cannot see what's wrong with capitalism any more than someone who accepts Marx as a package deal can fix it. Both are effectively committing the genetic fallacy, one assuming that Marx cannot be right, the other by assuming Marx cannot be wrong.
>>538427549When people here talk about "leftism" they don't actually mean it as a political science thing. They're just referring to niggers and homosexuals.
>>538427575Jacobins freed the French Empire slaves tho
>>538427551>exactly. Attacking communism without attacking (((liberalism))) which is just as jewish is retarded.The real reactionaries want to overturn everything from 1789 forward (or 1776 forward) yeah. Good luck with that but what people don't really appreciate is how much socialism in the 19th century was also tied up in radical republicanism vs. the ancien regimes of crown-and-altar conservatism, and that the First International where Marx spoke at displayed an American flag in a place of honor in their meeting hall because they supported the Union during the civil war and the U.S. as a land of liberty. There was a civil war in Russia after WWI where revolutionary socialists won, but Russia probably had more in common with France at an earlier period. There was still an absolutist monarchy there when the revolution began. You have to put it in its relative context.>>538427569>I don't think Alinsky ever even thought of himself as a Marxist and he certainly wasn't a Communist Party member.American conservatives developed a paranoid complex about Saul Alinsky when Obama was president because he read it when he was a "community organizer," but right there that tells you something. Also the title makes it seem like some radical master plan. But the whole theory of politics in the book is about how you should try to avoid being ideological and work with the system to get more money for public schools and things like that. It did become influential in the non-profit world but Alinsky explicitly writes in the book that it's an alternative to communism. The basic idea was to go to the Catholics or whatever and convince them to get involved in more social programs to beat communists at their own game.
>>538427568There's no such thing as evil.
Americans should be barred from political discussion. Their ignorance is astounding and they think it's normal.
>>538427578Don't cut yourself senpai.
>>538427569marx was wrong about the falling rate of profitalso the transformation problem has never been solvedmarxism is essentially a religious cult
>>538427570it's been refuted millions of times from a wide variety of anglesit still has true believer cultists that hand wave away the criticisms though>most intelligentlol lmao
>>538427566Value is subjective. Marx was wrong
>>538427556>and most variants thereof don't advocate vesting unfettered power in anyone, at most they advocate for a Vanguard Party with checks and balances.Imagine saying this shit with a straight face>it's not a dictatorship, but it's a dictatorship
>>538427583That is certainly true, yet from a mainstream perspective, his arguments are extremely compelling. In other words, the content is persuasive to those with a Christian worldview; the only ones who truly take issue with him are a handful of esoteric Nazi adherents who see through it.
Are there ACTUALLY marxists here?How the fuck can anyone actually be that retarded?
>>538427566those aren't deep or substantial thoughts at all. completely without insight. just empty phrases you've come up with to seem like you have something to say. nothing behind them. you are a retard.
>>538427570gender studies professors are the worlds most intelligent people.
>>538427574retard.>critique of class strugglemarx didn't critique class struggle, and class isn't real, neither is class struggle.>capitalism's structural failureshe failed on this completely since marxist economics is totally without merit and is based on a labour theory of value which is nonsensical and worthless. also hegelian woo woo has zero validity to it and there is no such thing as the sublimation of the negation of the contradictions of capitalism turning inwards onto in itself.there's no such thing as a law of history in the first place.
>>538427589>LTV is fake>but I still have to get a job, which is where my money comes from>unless I'm rich, in which case I could live off investments >investments in other people's labor>but it's fake because, uhhh, speculation exists
>>538427581>marx was wrong about the TPRFput your money where your mouth is. Invest in a railroad. I'm sure it'll be just as profitable as the ones in the 19th century. Or perhaps those are too obsolete for you, so try investing in computers and e-commerce, those are still getting used - I'm sure you'll do as well as Silicon Valley did in the '90s-00s.
>>538427590none of this cope supports the labor theory of valuevalue is subjective>>538427591Please show me where the rate of profit is falling lol.https://socialdemocracy21stcentury.blogspot.com/2016/02/marxs-tendency-of-rate-of-profit-to.htmlhttps://socialdemocracy21stcentury.blogspot.com/2016/03/the-us-profit-rate-was-abnormally-high.htmlhttps://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-1-349-19707-1_8Communists deserve to be gassed.> so try investing in computers and e-commerceThese firms are still profitable and their rate of profit is not falling. What is your point?
Even if someone stops being a marxist and realized they were retarded. I'm still going to hate them and think of them as sociopathic low IQ retards.It's incredible someone can get brainwashed to support their own enslavement like this.
>>538427592>value is subjectivecan I buy food with subjective value? Can subjective value pay the rent?>>538427592Selling people computers is less profitable than it used to be, there isn't a new Bill Gates. Selling things online is less profitable than it used to be. "Tech firms" maintain profitability by moving into new technologies, as TPRF predicts.
>>538427594>can I buy food with subjective value? Can subjective value pay the rent?way to completely misunderstand the argument>Selling people computers is less profitable than it used to bethe falling rate of profit meme is about a general, economy wide decline in the rate of profit, not a localized decline due to shifting consumer trends etc.The general rate of profit economy wide is not falling. See my data I posted.>by moving into new technologies, as TPRF predicts.LOL innovation existing doesn't prove the TPRF you marxist shitstain.Even in industries with low innovation, the rate of profit is not falling.
Reminder this is what marxist bootlickers actually fucking believe lmao
>>538427595Subjective value is an abstraction distantly removed from most people's experience of the real economy, and accounts for a tiny percentage of said economy.Yeah some people get lucky, I wish I got into bitcoin when people were shilling it here too. But the overwhelming majority of people still need to sell their labor power, firms need to purchase labor power to make stuff, and prices generally converge around what things cost to make.The economy works around M-C-M, it doesn't work based on people betting on changes in "subjective value". If you think you're seeing something in the economy that isn't M-C-M you're probably looking at a bubble... which can work great if you're lucky, ride it, and sell at the right time, but you really do need to make sure exposure to it can't wipe you out.
>>538427597None of this changes the fact value is subjective. Facts don't care about your feelings.>and prices generally converge around what things cost to make.Uh yeah I know. Those prices are also determined subjectively by people in the market.>The economy works around M-C-M, it doesn't work based on people betting on changes in "subjective value". You are still misunderstanding what the austrians and marginalists mean by subjective value.Subjective doesn't mean arbitrary.
>>538427536>>538427539Anti-communism runs purely on lies, projection, and right-wingers believing their own propaganda.
Marxism is just lower IQs killing higher IQs and taking their stuff
>>538427599You people unironically support north korea and stalin.just lol lmao evenYou're in a religious cult and you actively fight against your own economic interests and freedoms.keep licking that boot
>>538427599why don't you people move to china or north korea then?I don't get it.You'd think SOME of you would want to live in the workers paradises you love so much.
>>538427602Because we want to fix our own countries
>>538427603>we want to turn our own countries into totalitarian shitholes where individuals have zero freedom and the state controls literally everythingHow is that fixing anything?I almost feel bad for you people as I would anyone with a serious mental illness, but then I remember you support slavery and death which just makes me want you people to die painfully.You will never be a dictator, incel.
>>538427559>>538427564Capitalism is not “muh human nature.” Human nature includes cooperation and egalitarian distribution.Capitalism is not a defining characteristic of the human condition, it is a phase that started in response to 19th century industrial development.Like slave and feudal economies, it can and will be overcome and supplanted.
>>538427605>Human nature includes cooperation and egalitarian distribution.Human nature also includes the desire to benefit yourself and your family. Humans are not completely selfless and it's impossible to magically change their instincts to be so.>it can and will be overcome and supplanted.When? lolSocialism already tried and failed on it's own merits many times. It requires enslaving people and people don't like being slaves so they rebel against it.
hoping this happens
>>18560559>You are so illiterate it hurtsThe truth hurts doesn't it?Where is your argument?How does creating a totalitarian monopolistic state somehow magically result in the state withering away?How is marxism not a religious cult? What the fuck is wrong with you people?
>>538427548>happens in every systemIt happened on an extremely large scale compared to liberal democraciesIt has a much higher kill rate.Also it requires slavery
>>538427547Marxists don't actually read marx.They just say "read marx" over and over when confronted because they're projecting.
>>538427562your ideal country is north koreayou have a single digit IQ
>>538427558>Material equality is good. Individual competition is evil.So basically you support slavery because you're too much of a loser to actually provide something valuable to humanity?
>>538427610they're all unemployed dropouts you think they have the attention span to read a 19th century economic tome?
>>538427536Wait...Do people actually still believe this retarded Marxist bull shit?We literally just had an entire century where it was completely debunked by reality.
>>538427614>Do people actually still believe this retarded Marxist bull shit?Yes.It blows my mind every time I realize it.I go on tankie subreddits and there they are, north korea glazing and all.It's fucking incredible that these people exist, but they do.
>>538427615this is the person posting nazi rape threads every day
>>538427615>china gives us a functional open-source AI on the cheap>'''open'''AI lobbies its pet politicians to have it banned because it interferes with their profit margins>your main issue with this fact is that you're learning it from an ugly tranny
>>538427617>china is communistThey're not, they abandoned maoism and switched to a capitalist market economy after tens of millions of people starved to death>america is capitalistendless money printing, endless government spending and intervention, and special privileges to certain corporations are not a free marketAmerica sucks due to socialist policies. China is growing because they abandoned most of those policies.Also what does this have to do with communism, you braindead ccp shill?
>>538427618>(you) can't have production for use, we need to ban it so we can make money off of production for exchange>what does this have to do with communism?I make no claims about China overall, I'm just incensed by how little liberal '''democracy''' has changed since Marx was writing about German forestry laws
>>538427619>I'm just incensed by how little liberal '''democracy''' has changed since Marx was writing about German forestry lawswhat about the fact living standards for workers radically increased?
>>538427618This is just “communism is when government do stuff”
>>538427621communists are now coping by claiming communism is when capitalism exists and succeedsit's very bizarrebefore the berlin wall fell they would have claimed communism requires central planning and would claim central planning works better than a market economynow they've moved goalposts to another dimension lol
>>538427586>nooooo you can't just think everyone should have equal resources, you have to dedicate your lives to competing against each other for shekels
>>538427623>>nooooo you can't just think everyone should have equal resourcesI mean, you can. You're just a loser retard if you think so.Not even communists think everyone should have exactly equal resources no matter how much effort/skill they have.
>>538427624You are a hylic.
>>538427625>A "hylic" is a philosophical or Gnostic term referring to a person who is entirely focused on the physical or material world, lacking spiritual awarenessUh yes?
>>538427622Most economies around the world have some sort of mixed economy with forms of central planning like china where even if they let in some market economy it’s still heavily planned with their 5 year plans and has many state owned industries and there is America where there is mostly private ownership with a the few state owned industries in the us that are tied to some sort of public service and things like PPPs which don’t act as ownership but as “partnerships” which is just contracts with privately owned businesses often for infrastructure projects so I wouldn’t say China isn’t socialist and America isn’t capitalist and the policies you bring up are the government doing stuff which isn’t inherently socialism even if it isn’t “muh free market”
>>538427627>Most economies around the world have some sort of mixed economytruethe ones that have the freest markets have the most growth and highest living standards for workershttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_by_economic_freedomhttps://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/coep.12010>it’s still heavily planned with their 5 year plansIt's much less planned than it used to be.The state owned firms are keeping china down.Workers in Taiwan make almost 4 time what workers in mainland china make.
>Uh yeah I know. Those prices are also determined subjectively by people in the market.This is, in fact, the labor theory of value. Or do you think these subjective decisions are arbitrary?
>>538427629>This is, in fact, the labor theory of value.No it isn't.Why don't you explain your position in detail?
>>538427629labor is not homogenous"abstract labor" is a nonsense schizo copealso the transformation problem has never been solved
Why do communists think you should NEVER be allowed to criticize the government?Why do they think the government should force you in your home and shoot you if you tried to leave?
>>538427630>Why don't you explain your position in detail?The market value of a good or service is defined by what people are willing to pay for it. What people are willing to pay for it is often based on how hard it is to make or get. This isn't rocket science.>>538427631>labor is not homogenousNo one claimed that it is.>also the transformation problem has never been solvedSo then why does McDonalds raise the price of hamburgers when labor prices go up?>>538427632Meds.
>>538427604What do you own in a capitalist society? What sort of freedom do you have?Want to repair your own electronics, vehicles, etc? Manufacturers deliberately make it harder and harder to do so through hostile design, or sometimes by regulation. Do you want to replicate an existing product because you found a better more efficient manufacturing technique, or a way to improve the product’s function? You are legally prohibited from doing so because of patents and copyright laws.Want to grow your own food because you can’t afford the in store grocery prices? There are tons of barriers making this simple task, that humans have engaged in for centuries, and almost insurmountable feat for the average person. If you can’t afford groceries, you’re unlikely to own property, so you have no land you can farm on. You can’t just go out into the woods and build a homestead because either a private entity or the state owns the land. If you do own your own property, zoning laws may be in place to restrict what purposes you can use that land for. If you do manage to amass the capital to start up a farm, you can’t just take the seeds from the last crop and replant them because the seeds are now proprietary. Even the tractor manufacturer is trying to fuck you out of being able to repair your own equipment.There’s no absolutely “free” society, and neither Lenin nor Marx nor ANY prominent Marxist theorist has claimed that to be the case. But Lenin importantly stated that the state and its laws embody the will of a society’s ruling class. In a capitalist society, the state embodies the will of the owner class. A state is a necessary tool to enforce the social relations in any society. What matters is who’s in charge of that state because that ultimately determines to what ends the state will act. A state under the patronage of lobbyists from private entities will inevitably act to the benefit of its patrons at the expense of everyone else.
>>538427628>Workers in Taiwan make almost 4 timewhat workers in mainland china make.You have to be using GDP for that number lolTaiwan does have higher wages but Taiwan also has a much more expensive cost of living while the us takes care of its military spending Also it’s a study is from 2013 not saying it’s irrelevant but it’s been 13 years and it’s also behind paywall
>>538427582If you read the article about the Labor Theory of Value on wikipedia and what arguments were used to “disprove” it, you’ll find that those arguments were addressed in Marx’s own writing. In fact, they were addressed in the first volume of Das Kapital in the first chapter, which defines LTV.In other words, it’s not even a matter of debate. The Marxist critique of political economy was quietly discarded into the dustbin of history under the false pretense that it was “disproven” and that socialism “failed”, in an apparent bet that people would be too stupid to open a book and read the pages. And it worked. With a little encouragement from media pundits and a gutted public education system, most people in the West decided they didn’t need to read books or attempt to think critically and evaluate conventionally held wisdom and beliefs. They decided to trust the experts, all of whom said that socialism failed and that Marx was wrong. But Marx didn’t exist in a vacuum. His philosophy traces its roots as far as the ancient Greek philosophers. To discard Marx is to throw away centuries of philosophical development. The entire Western philosophical tradition!
>>538427633>MedsWhat are you talking about? That's literally what tankies(99% of communists) believe and support.
If we trace origins of the term “meritocracy” to its roots, it was coined by a socialist thinker. Marx’s hypothetical communist society, summed up by the famous phrase “from each according to his ability, to each according to his labor”, interpreted plainly per the literary definition, simply describes a world where each individual gets back exactly the equivalent of what they contribute.Socialism is often falsely associated with handouts, wealth redistribution, and “forced equality of outcome”. Yet historical socialist countries, including the USSR, did not have welfare programs that allowed people to live off of subsidies without working. Nor did they have forced diversity quotas in education and the workplace. What they did have was laws prohibiting “social parasitism” - it was ILLEGAL to not work in any capacity. However, they also had a legal right to work, and not only that, but a legal right to work in the profession you were TRAINED in. Education was free, but the post secondary institution you got into was determined on entrance exam scores. Socialist societies were geared towards affording individuals equality of opportunity, something that promoters of capitalism claim to espouse, but something that cannot exist in class-based capitalist societies in practice.Finally, the modern welfare state, which does feature handouts, wealth redistribution schemes, and virtue-signaling equity programs that pander to minorities, is nothing more than an extension of the centuries old system of “bread and circuses” to appease the plebs, because even ancient Romans discovered that a slave society (which any society based on private property is, at its core) is bound to collapse without it.
>>538427635>Taiwan does have higher wages but Taiwan also has a much more expensive cost of livingnah this data is real wages, most of china is rural, that's a sign of a developing country
>>538427636>If you read the article about the Labor Theory of Value on wikipedia and what arguments were used to “disprove” it, you’ll find that those arguments were addressed in Marx’s own writing.Certainly you could provide them here and actually present an argument? right?Bohm Bawerk already refuted marx over 100 years ago.>and that socialism “failed”But it did.What was the socialist nations that worked?Many socialist states didn't have muh CIA interventionism and still failed terribly like Somalia, Burma, Tanzania etc
>>538427638>from each according to his ability, to each according to his labor”Who gets to be the arbiter that decides whos worth what then?
>>538427633>is often basedThis does not prove labor is the sole determining factor of value.>No one claimed that it is.marxists do>So then why does McDonalds raise the price of hamburgers when labor prices go up?This is unrelated>>538427634uhhh why can't we just put regulations on businesses instead of giving total power to the state while taking away rights of the people?like what the fuck man? Why do we need the slavery?
>>538427637>What are you talking about? That's literally what tankies(99% of communists) believe and support.Twitter is not real life.
>>538427638>but something that cannot exist in class-based capitalist societies in practice.socialist states were based on bribes and who you knew, it certainly wasnt a meritocracyalso they were poor as shit and ate less calories than us
>>538427643So internet communists aren't real life?Of course they are, they exist in real life and this is what most of them believe.Even when they all march in public they wave tankie flags and support the same shit.Non tankie communists are basically extinct.
>>538427634Literally every thing you fucking mentioned is a quadrillion times worse in a marxist state.You think they have freedom in north korea?What about during mao's time when they forced people onto collective farms and shot them if they tried to leave?>zoning lawsMost of what you are saying is literally just government intervention.Communists think capitalism is when the government does stuff, and that we need more government to "solve" these problems
>>538427639china bros how can we recover from this?
>>538427645>So internet communists aren't real life?No. The people who post cringe shit online are not a good representative sample of groups in real life.>Of course they are, they exist in real life and this is what most of them believe.Whatever keeps your haterade flowing, buddy.>Even when they all march in public they wave tankie flags and support the same shit.Same problem as above. Anyone opposed to capital who "marches in public" is by definition too stupid to practice basic opsec.>Non tankie communists are basically extinct.Nah, we just don't take pictures of ourselves and post them online.
>>538427648>The people who post cringe shit onlinesoo literally every marxist ever?Why are like 99% of the marxists on twitter and reddit hardcore tankies? Why are the most popular communist subs on reddit tankie ones?Look man there's no need to lie about it.Just accept it.Communism is marxist-leninism.There are virtually zero orthodox marxists left.You see these people in marches in real life too.>Whatever keeps your haterade flowing, buddy.Reality?I have a very good reason to hate marxists and want them dead. They support slavery and totalitarianism. I mean duh lol>too stupid to practice basic opsec.Aaahhh so your problem is they aren't hiding their power levels good enough.Thanks for proving my point tankie, now face the wall.>Nah, we just don't take pictures of ourselves and post them online.Why are you pretending like you aren't one?I bet you're one of those tankies that supports Lenin and all of his brutality but thinks stalin and mao "went too far, but teehee critical support doe!"
>>538427639PPP is just adjusted GDP you fucking retard
>>538427650How is the data wrong? What problem do you have with purchasing power parity exactly?The taiwanese have far more disposable income, you know AFTER they pay rent/mortgages.Your workers paradise is a shithole.Most of china is fucking rural peasants.If they embraced free markets like Taiwan did, wages would be higher and there would be less pollution.Communist states always have insane levels of pollution.
>>538427649>soo literally every marxist ever?No. Can you read?>Why are like 99% of the marxists on twitter and reddit hardcore tankies? Why are the most popular communist subs on reddit tankie ones?Smart people do not use twitter or reddit.>Look man there's no need to lie about it. Just accept it. Communism is marxist-leninism.Communists frequently disagree on that point, and it's sort of a worthless debate in general.>There are virtually zero orthodox marxists left.I'm not an orthodox Marxist.>You see these people in marches in real life too.Again, your ability to read seems to have failed you.>I have a very good reason to hate marxists and want them dead. They support slavery and totalitarianism. I mean duh lolI support children not going hungry or dying of preventable illnesses.>Aaahhh so your problem is they aren't hiding their power levels good enough. Thanks for proving my point tankie, now face the wall.lol internet tough guy.>Why are you pretending like you aren't one? I bet you're one of those tankies that supports Lenin and all of his brutality but thinks stalin and mao "went too far, but teehee critical support doe!"As stated above, I support children not going hungry and dying of preventable illnesses.
>>538427652>No. Can you read?Yes. I read the opinions of every marxist online and in real life. They're virtually all tankies/MLs.>Smart peoplelmao what is this cope? where are the "smart" communists then? They don't exist.The vast majority of communists use twitter and reddit.>Communists frequently disagree on that pointThey don't. The debate is fucking lost. There are ZERO non-MLs. It's OVER.>I'm not an orthodox Marxist.What are you?>your ability to readYour point?>I support children not going hungryMe too, that's why I want socialists to die, and it's why I support free market policies. It's the only thing that has been empirically shown to lift the poor out of poverty.https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/coep.12010You probably get off on children like the other marxists so that's why you want to keep them poor.>internet tough guy.manchild crying over getting a taste of his own medicinelol>As stated above, I support children not going hungry and dying of preventable illnesses.You're too cowardly to tell me your actual ideology so you lie and pretend you want le healthcare or whatever like the rest of the tankies do.
>>538427536meds
>>538427654>marxist telling others to take their meds
>>538427653I'm sorry man, I gotta be real with you here, your butthurt is too advanced for me to be of any help. Best of luck in your future endeavors.
>>538427656>your butthurt is too advanced for meI accept your concession and acknowledge your projection. :)
>>538427651I will admit I read to quick so yeah I’m the retarded one and wear a silly helmet but still disposable income is after paying taxes and before paying living expenses and once again Taiwan living expenses are higher but I also feel China and Taiwan’s stark size difference play a part in skewing the stats too and the pic you posted is about covid effecting chinaDo you know what the PPP conversation is based on in this case and what they’re using for like the Big Mac metric that’s commonly used as an example
>>538427658>and before paying living expensesWhat? No it isn't.Do you know what disposable income means? It means income left over after you pay for your essentials, food, rent/mortgage, healthcare etc.None of this really matters. Most of china is still rural. This is a clear sign of a still developing country with lots of poverty.Taiwan is mostly urban and has higher incomes.People in Taiwan work less hours too.People in China work LONGER than people in South Korea and Japan do.Because communism fucking sucks lol
>>538427659https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disposable_incomeMost of them work roughly around the same hours on average I’m not a huge china fan but you’re just displaying Taiwan and other East Asian capitalist countries as utopias in comparison even though all of these countries have notably had issues with overwork that were only somewhat resolved with the government intervention of work hour capping
>>538427660>even though all of these countries have notably had issues with overwork that were only somewhat resolved with the government intervention of work hour cappingthose laws dont do much, people can work overtimeits just that these countries are so productive it leads to people working fewer hourspeople typically work more hours in countries with low productivity
why do marxists support north korea?Can someone explain this to me
>>538427662>Juche is not considered communist in the traditional sense today. While it originated as a Marxist-Leninist adaptation in the 1950s, it has evolved into a highly nationalistic, state-controlled ideology emphasizing extreme self-reliance, hereditary leadership, and ethnic purity over global working-class solidarity.
>>538427662Both the far-left and the far-right ought to like them equally, for they are practicing National Socialism even more than the Germans themselves.
>>538427663meanwhile in reality:>they never dropped mentions of communism/marxism from their constitution>nearly every communist on the internet supports them>it's literally a centrally planned economy like mao and pol potWhy do you piece of shit lie constantly? Like can you be honest for once in your miserable lives?
>>538427536you sound demented.I wish you could have debated Marx, he'd have crushed you. Sadly he's long dead & idiots multiply.
>>538427666>he'd have crushed youwhy did he get crushed by bohm bawerk and mises then?The fact marxists still exist when it's brought nothing but misery to the working class is so bizarre.The only conclusion a reasonable person can come to is the fact that marxists hate workers with a passion and want to enslave them.
According to /b/ there's some kind of MAGA astroturfing campaign going on about communism right now. This is silly, because the biggest threat to MAGA isn't communism, it's Donald Trump.
>>538427668Trump IS a communist. He hates the free market.He's destroying the economy with left wing policy while claiming to be pro capitalism. He's intentionally pushing people towards the far left
>>538427536Marxism is a complete rejection of all philosophy, especially bourgeois humanism. We have no compassion or empathy, and mercy is nought but a tool of the Bourgeoisie. I am a Marxist, and I spit on the enemies of the Proletariat.
>>538427558Communists conspire to loot the production of superior people. What then? It's just a low-IQ smash and grab disguised as politics. Late stage communism always changes to a superior system.
>>538427671I thought all unironic Ayn Rand followers had died of high cholesterol by now
>>538427670>We have no compassion or empathy, and mercy is nought but a tool of the Bourgeoisie.That's insane if you aren't trolling.Marxism is actually a fucking religious cult lolthey have zero emotions except pure rage, they will never be happy or fall in love
>>538427672rand is a bad philosopher but she lives in the heads of communists since fucking forever and they still dont understand her work
>>538427670Finally you admit it
>>538427670>We have no compassion or empathy, and mercydont cut yourself on that edge
>>538427669>>538427668Fascinating to see the anti-Trump shilling. He's really angering the right people.
>>538427672Are you saying communists are malnourished? That would make sense.
>>538427661>Japan~2100 to ~1600 hours worked annually since the 1980s>Korea~2800 to ~1800 hours worked annually since the 1980s>Taiwan~2250 to ~2000 hours worked annually since the 1980sYou were right about china because it’s hours worked annually is around 2400 and 48 hours a week but is notably skewed by the 996 practice which uses salaried employees to avoid overtime pay and the practice used in the Chinese tech industry in privately owned companies like ByteDance(TikTok) Alibaba Huawei and many more and the practice has reached the US tech industry too I think what exemplifies this being a East Asian thing is the USSR having less working hours then the US https://www.statista.com/statistics/1250323/work-week-hours-us-ussr-cold-war/?srsltid=AfmBOoppZnEndPeLWhxE9wAan438RBx2UCs73FDy3zMSDS0q-jE1Jrtw>people typically work more hours in countries with low productivityIf productivity is measured as GDP x Hours worked then yes and this would make Ireland the most productive country in the world and the stat could easily be affected by laws capping hours worked>>538427669Meds now schizo
>>538427567Ashkenazi materialism is embedded deep in your ideology, fag.
>>538427585>the content is persuasive to those with a Christian worldviewNot really, lying faggot.
I don't get why anyone would be anti-semitic instead of communistIf you kill all jews you're still being exploited by non-jewish bankers and indistrialists but if you kill all bankers and industrialists, jew and non jew alike, the only jews left would lack the means with which to exploit you anyway. So even if you did believe in Anti-Semitic conspiracies, communism is still a more logical solution than just killing all jews regardless of their wealth and standing
>>538427679>You were right about chinaOf course I was. That's what communism does to a country, stagnates growth and makes workers poorer.Capitalism lowers working hours over time, despite any government intervention. Here is an example of American working hours pic related. See them dropping before government passed the 40 hour work week?Also your ussr data is wrong, I asked several LLMs and they said ussrs was higher"The USSR: Comparative time-use studies—such as the landmark historical assessments by Juster and Stafford—reveal that total weekly work hours for the average adult were longer in the Soviet Union than in the United States.The USA: Data from the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics indicates that the actual average workweek for all employed Americans hovered between 35 and 39 hours during this era. This lower average was heavily influenced by the rise of part-time employment and a growing service-sector economy.">If productivity is measured as GDP x Hours workedIt's not.GDP is a meme metric that doesn't say anything.>Meds now schizoWhat meds? Trump is highly economically interventionist. He's printing and spending more than any other president.
>>538427681You possess the spirit of the accuser, a trait I respect, yet your response is posturing. You cannot deny the fact that scientism, a derivative of Christianity, has been captivated by, and remains under the influence of, Marx and Hegel.
>>538427683>Capitalism lowers working hours over time*Industrialization labor movements and workers strikes>Also your ussr data is wrong, I asked several LLMsFuck you bloody bastard bitch Curse Vishnu >the actual average workweek for all employed Americans hovered between 35 and 39 hoursThen my point stands as it he work hours were very similar to America that it’s more of an east Asia thing than a communism thing are you able comprehend that saar or do you need ai for that too you numbskull faggot
>>538427685>*Industrialization labor movements and workers strikeslol how?Unions were like 5% of the workforce when this improvement in living standards was happening.Goods were being produced more efficiently, meaning workers got more goods and services and could work less.>Fuck yourefute the quote>that it’s more of an east Asia thingwhy the fuck does china have much higher hours than taiwan or japan? lol
>>538427682>I don't get why anyone would be anti-semitic instead of communistlow iq
>>538427556That’s not what affirming the consequent is, retard
>>538427686>why the fuck does china have much higher hours than taiwan or japan? lol I explained in a previous post >>538427679 you were to busy bragging about putting shit through AI to prove how right you are that you didn’t even read > Unions were like 5% of the workforceYou can still strike without a union and labor movements aren’t always unions >Goods were being produced more efficiently, meaning workers got more goods and services and could work less.Thats industrialization>refute the quoteI don’t need to as it ultimately didn’t refute the main point Now post your skin
>>538427536>the core of marxism is basicallyTo enslave Goyim.
>>538427958>why the fuck does china have much higher hours than taiwan or japan? lol I explained in a previous post >>538427679 you were to busy bragging about putting shit through AI to prove how right you are that you didn’t even read > Unions were like 5% of the workforceYou can still strike without a union and labor movements aren’t always unions >Goods were being produced more efficiently, meaning workers got more goods and services and could work less.Thats industrialization>refute the quoteI don’t need to as it ultimately didn’t refute the main point Now post your skin
>>538427991Fuck it double post so you get the message
>>538427543>Brainwash yourself
>>538427536>sophistryPolitics is non-violent warfare.
