Ex-atheist here. How the fuck did so many people fall for this? I can't stand reading or listening to these guys without suffering brain damage.Is this the best of what the religion of reason has to offer? Why are we allowing these jackasses to influence our politics and foreign policy?It also doesn't help that Dawkins and Harris deny the current genocide in Gaza.
>>538511696Nu-atheism was always a kike psyop. It was built around making people think they are super smart because they are atheist.
>>538511696Funny how you're attacking their character instead of their arguments, right? You have a lot of things to say about THEM but very little to address the things they argued ABOUT RELIGION.
>>538511696It's all the same bullshit.Whether you like diddling kids and inviting a billion turd worlders or not is completely independent from whether you think there's god(s).Not political.
>>538512085>making people think they are super smartThis was the main downfall of atheism.>>538512183Anon, atheism is a fantasy (and also a religion). That's why I left it. Even Daniel Dennett admitted it's a belief in his book.
>>538512218Foreign policy debates, supporting military invasions, denying genocide and repeatedly telling Americans who to vote for isn't political?Some atheists I know wished to enforce atheism on others. Isn't this anti-secularism?
>>538512183>Why don't you argue the person calling for and celebrating your death
>>538512183I have a question for you anon: are you an atheist or agnostic? Do you follow any atheist religions?>>538512218Seriously, why the fuck do pedophiles, rapists and genocidal warmongers obsessively tell us what to think? How isn't this political?
>>538512183>if God then why evil>miracles lolTen years of fedora genius condensed to bumper stickers.
>>538511696>Why are we allowing these jackasses to influence our politics and foreign policy?Hitch is dead, Harris lost tons of followers to his TDS and Dawkins has never had any political clout. Did the Four Horsemen have some kind of outsized influence in *checks flag* Austria that I was never informed on?Well no, you're just making shit up so you can pretend to have a thread.The only pertinent point to anything in this thread is from anon here;>>538512183Using ad homs is a beginner mistake and you don't deserve any serious engagement. Which you were only going to get from me and I'm now hiding the thread. Enjoy your 200 posts of regurgitated memes, I'm sure they mean you did something.
>>538511696>How the fuck did so many people fall for this?jewish brainwashing.
>>538513148>Dawkins has never had any political cloutYes he did and still does. He supported the invasions of Muslim countries. He doesn't shut up about Islam, USA, Brexit and Muslim immigration.>Did the Four Horsemen have some kind of outsized influence in *checks flag* Austria that I was never informed on?These idiots are the reason why we get so many Muslim immigrants. They wouldn't be here if their countries weren't bombed for decades.
>>538511696>Richard DawkinsWhat is this mild pedophilia thing? Ephebophile? You don't need to be an atheist or theist to understand that that is a very healthy position and was common for a long time in history. 18 yo age of consent is just a modern thing. It is only "wrong" because the law says so but ethics shouldn't be restricted by the law. It has nothing to do with atheism vs theism just with maximizing fertility efficiency/baby output. Survival > ethics/religion>(((Sam Harris)))Are you sure that these quotes are even real? /pol/ has both high and low quality memes/sources so it is always good to check. Giving you the benefit of the doubt it is bizarre that he wouldn't want to get rid of rape. He ironically is finally in god mode and still fails. Every honest atheist should admit that he would want to play for God if he could and solve everything, especially if they are idealists/utopianists. I do. One good thing about Sam Harris is that he combines materialism with spirituality, even though through a shallow new age meets new atheism lens, and that he accepts consciousness. He challenged Dawkins on consciousness experiments and he refused lol. >HitchensProbably the most cynical/seething of the 4 Horsemen of New Atheism. But Idc about killing foreigners. Has nothing to do with religion.>religion of reasonAtheism is not a religion but I agree with the anti-atheist stance that humans are inherently religious and need leaders to "tell them how to think, feel and behave" and that popular new atheists are ironically being worshipped by "atheists". Hilarious. I would suggest looking at atheists before new atheism and look at their strongest arguments. Epicurus' paradox is a very nice intellectual challenge for every atheist/theist.
>>538512674>>538512931>REEEEEEEEEEEEE Lol
>>538513602>evil existsNope. Checkmate Christians and moral atheists. Embrace amoralist (a-)theism.
>>538513602This is the most schizo shit I read today. Congratulations anon. But I will only address one of your statements>Atheism is not a religionAtheism is not a religion just like theism is not a religion.Atheist religions do exists, such as sects of Buddhism and Hinduism. In the 18th Century, the French atheists established an atheocracy and invented the Cult of Reason (which they insisted was a religion of reason). And if you disagreed with them, they would have you beheaded.
The synagogue of satan is very good at infiltrating youth culture. Easiest way to kill Christianity.
>>538514031What is schizo about it? They are all very sane and milquetoast positions. >Atheism is not a religion just like theism is not a religion.You, religion and stances often get conflated. >Hinduism is atheistNo, Buddhism is but Hinduism is not. Do understand that Buddhists are not absolute materialists.>if you disagreed with them, they would have you beheaded.Faggots
>>538511696https://youtu.be/QhsXOKlXe5M?si=Sw5qQw05l1QmLak1Andhttps://youtu.be/leVLmE1Er5U?si=hxenT7mOcxGgNpd3
>>538513602>not (((hitchens)))
>>538514401Yes*, religion and stances often get conflated.
>>538514457He is not Jewish. If he is prove and I stand corrected.
>>538513935>Epicurus>atheistwhy embrace if nothing matters?Check mate atheists
>>538512183>all religions are the same thingAtheist midwittery
>>538514565Epicurus IS an atheist. I don't see your point.Also, amoralism =/= nihilism.>why embrace if nothing matters?I am an amoralist anti-nihilist.>Check mate atheistsYou are not checkmating atheists since atheists can be moral.
>>538511696I think he should go say his arguments to Muslims in the UK and count the seconds until his ass is in prison getting raped by them.
>>538514695Oops. Messed up the sentence order:>why embrace if nothing matters?Amoralism =/= nihilism.I am an amoralist anti-nihilist.FTFY
>>538514510maybe you should spend the 30 seconds it takes to do a wikipedia early life check
>>538514695Fedoras took>Why call him God?to>God not real because bad things happen.
>>538514510Anon your first clue was his unironic support for obvious jewish wars. You cannot claim to be an intellectual, and then get deceived by nigger cattle tier propaganda, And he never recanted either, he still held the position well after it was shown to be a fraudulent war for jews. So either he was 85IQ or he was jewish>The couple met in Scotland during World War II. His father served on HMS Jamaica, which notably helped sink the German battleship Scharnhorst. His mother was of Jewish ancestry—a fact she kept secret for decades, which Christopher only discovered as an adult.
>>538514691You can argue against the things all religions have in common without saying that they are all the same. Perhaps you are the midwit?
>>538514401>Hinduism is not atheisthttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu_atheismHitchens was Jewish, and there's nothing wrong about that.>>538514695Your schizo state is showing anon. Tell me, are you an atheist or agnostic?
>>538514695>ignores historical evidenceSuch is nu-athiesm >seethes over logiccheckmate
>>538514868>God not real because bad things happen.Your logic is flawed. I am saying that evil does NOT exist so how can I complain about bad things happening? I am attacking moralists like new atheists AND christianity who claim evil exists. How the fuck can I complain about bad things happening if I don't accept the Christian social construct of "evil" (which new atheists borrow and twist to have their own set of morality)?
>>538512183>you aren't ever allowed to consider the motivations of the person making the argumentThat sounds extremely jewish.That sounds like how people get swindled by used car salesmen.Why would I not consider the character and interests of a person that I am speaking to when I am trying to determine whether or not they are being honest or engaging in good faith?Nobody is obliged to live by your reddit rules of debate decorum.
>>538511696>It also doesn't help that Dawkins and Harris deny the current genocide in Gaza.Not only that, but not one of these supposed freethinkers ever questioned the official story of 9/11. They all swallowed it hook, line, and sinker.
>>538515244If I have a naturally evolved inclination toward religion and the belief in objective good and evil why is that something to be "transcended"? Why it and not, say, my survival instinct, or my desire to procreate, or the love I feel toward my family and friends? Atheists engage in Wile E Coyote morality. They have left the foundation of good and evil behind and are running across open air. We are to the stage where they notice, hold up the "Yikes!" sign, and plummet to earth.The logical endpoint of your ethos is that you don't believe in good. You don't believe in the transcendental.Why would anyone engage with someone who doesn't even believe that telling the truth has value or meaning? What's the fucking point? You have no reason to be honest.
>>538515244so the holocaust wasn't evil?
>>538511696Remember, these guys don't need religion to be moral, because morality is ultimately subjective in a godless world, shaped by cultural norms and personal feelings, hence why they seek to influence that culture to accommodate for their sickly tendencies.
>>538511696Everyone should read the Gospel of Johnhttps://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%201&version=NIV
one stupid christkike thread after the next on this glownigger website
>>538514886>only jews can support (jewish) wars for the expansion of white global dominance. Even without jews behind the scenes I would support the erasure of non-whites to support white globalism so we can finally move the fuck on towards space imperialism and murder all the aliens. Stop thinking that imperialism is jewish.>>538515031>small portion of hindus are atheistThis is like saying that christianity is pro-lgbt because a small portion of christianity is pro-lgbt. Come on.>Hitchens was Jewish, and there's nothing wrong about thatI am not fond of jews but desu it is such a cheap adhom. If you want to attack new atheism, and in this case Hitchens, one needs to attack his arguments because he has a lot of influence.>Your schizo state is showing anon.How exactly? >Tell me, are you an atheist or agnostic?Neither. It is not even relevant to nihilism or morality
>>538515728fuck off jew
>>538511696atheists are jews best foot soldiers, carefree and remorseless no matter how individually shortsighted and societally destructive the "fun" and debauchery is, hence the obsession with such pressing matters as letting kids get their genitals mutilated because they are otherkin, letting in hordes of rapefugee shitskin slave labour and worship of aids ridden faggots
>>538515859you worship a kike you shitskin nigger
>>538511696>How the fuck did so many people fall for this?Like all people who are proud of how smart they are, they are not very intelligent after all.
>>538515244Evil is readily apparent in todays world, especially with the veil being lifted in the age of mass information. You're just being Low IQ to deny evil at this point.
>>538511696Atheism is just religion without a god. Its only credential is that it is cloaked in the trappings of academia, and that lends it credibility among the midwit university-indoctrinated. When the subject turns to existential themes, spirituality, the Universe, death and such, the foundations of beliefs embraced by atheism are just the same guesswork and theorizing that they disparage as bases for religious thought, hypocrisy being no stranger to them.Those who continued past the standard 4 year indoctrination boot camp abandon atheism the same those who never attended post-secondary "education" never embraced it in the first place. A little knowledge is, as they say, a dangerous thing.
>>538515786I just showed you a sect of Hinduism that's atheist (which existed for thousands of years) and you refuse to admit you got it wrong?> If you want to attack new atheism, and in this case Hitchens, one needs to attack his arguments because he has a lot of influence.I attacked his fascistic and genocidal arguments. Hitchens himself was an insecure coward who was afraid to say "I believe God doesnt exist">Neither. It is not even relevant to nihilism or moralityyes, they are relevant anon. You cannot be a nihilist if you're a theist, because God means objective values and meaning exist. Nihilism fully rejects any objective value and meaning in this world, which is why many atheists are nihilists.If you're not atheist or agnostic, then this can only mean you're a theist. What are you? Be specific and quit schizo posting.
>>538515413The New Atheism™ and especially The Four Horsemen® were a psyop designed to get liberals and libertarians to support, or at least not oppose, Bush & Blair's Global War On Terror. Remember Hitch's "Islamofascism" meme? That was designed to appeal to liberals and libertarians, both of whom are conditioned to foam at the mouth when you say "fascism". Well, times and circumstances have changed. Now that the first iteration of the zogwars is over, the New Atheism psyop has been discontinued and replaced with more appropriate psyops for the second iteration of the zogwars. Today, we need dumb White Southern evangelical boys to go fight and die for Israel over in Iran, to own the libs and protect God's Chosen, so now we get fake trad zio-Christianity to provide Shlomo with his goy cannon fodder. The meatgrinder must be fed.
>>538515578>objective goodWhy bring up good when I talked about rejecting evil? I believe in good, just not in the christian/platonic sense. Subjective good since it is impossible to reach a fully objective point of view and therefore it is not possible for humans to reach an unbiased form of so-called objective truth or so-called objective morality.>If I have a naturally evolved inclinationCan still be something to be overcome. Like herd thinking. Become Ubermensch>Atheists engage in > They have left the foundation of good and evil behind1. I am not an atheist2. They actually are extremely moral people who borrowed Christian morality. >The logical endpoint of your ethos is that you don't believe in good. Please understand that I disagree with both new atheist and christian morality. I am good. I am God. In old times this was the same word.>You don't believe in the transcendental.Both theists and atheists can embrace immanence. I am on the theist side. You can be a theist and be anti-christian.>>538515697Correct. Why would it be? It was just tribal warfare. People die, people fight, people rape. Animals do too. Holocaust was not even such a big deal. Why do people care so much about it? (Anti-)semites are so exhausting
So.... what does this entire thread have to do with not believing in a monotheistic god?
>>538516222>Those who continued past the standard 4 year indoctrination boot camp abandon atheism the same those who never attended post-secondary "education" never embraced it in the first place. A little knowledge is, as they say, a dangerous thing.I'll be honest, it took me years to heal myself of all the atheist indoctrination shit they enforced on me since I was a child.
>>538512183A person who attacks a system of morals should themselves be moral or be exposed as hypocrites.
>>538516402>I just showed you a sect of Hinduism that's atheist (which existed for thousands of years) and you refuse to admit you got it wrong?Yes, and I countered it. Read it again.>I attacked his fascistic and genocidal arguments.He is not fascist lol. Stop calling things you don't like fascism. And what is wrong with genocide? You are just killing people you don't like/are a threat to you. War is just part of humanity, stop being so moral about simple human things. Might is right.>Hitchens himself was an insecure coward who was afraid to say "I believe God doesnt exist"Yeah he is a soft atheist. If you are interested in strong atheist arguments look up hard atheism.I have a fucking call right now for an hour so I can't answer the rest other than that I am a theist. Will continue replying if the thread is still up then.
>>538511696The problem with the atheist movement is that it attacked religion from a fact-based science perspective when it should have attacked the moral underpinnings of abrahamism. Namely that being a weak cuck is holy.
>>538516523It gives you brain damage and sends our society back to barbarism and backwardness. Just look how badly New Atheism has poisoned our society and politics.I don't exactly know where our world is headed but I don't like the trajectory.
>>538516523The new meta is asserting that whether or not it’s true doesn’t matter, we all have to pretend it is because it will get us better outcomes or something
>>538515271Of course you're allowed to question motivation. If a billionaire is arguing that taxes and labor unions are bad, you're absolutely allowed to notice and even remark that, hey, maybe this dude thinks taxes and unions are bad because both of those things might make him less rich. Since no one becomes a billionaire by mistake (unless they inherit it), that dude making the argument very plausibly has spent a lot of time and effort accumulating wealth. Therefore, you might as well suggest that his wealth may be a material factor influencing his argument and see how he responds. See? Totally plausible and allowed. Let's go with Dawkins, then. He, uh, said some stuff (we don't get the actual quote of course) ostensibly about pedophilia. Are you saying he's a pedophile and therefore... against the Bible? That's a tough sell on multiple fronts -- primarily because the Bible, written in an era where men regularly fucked preteens, is actually pretty amenable to pedophilia. In fact, it might be a better argument to suggest that he should be FOR the Bible if he's a pedophile, right?But also because you have no proof. A billionaire is very obviously a billionaire. It's concrete evidence. Deriving the idea that he's a pedophile and, BECAUSE he is a pedophile, therefore is arguing against the Bible is an extremely poor argument. You've assumed a non-trivial statement as fact without evidence and then used it to derive a position that's totally incompatible with the target of this "bad faith" argument... because, again, the Bible is totally cool with you fucking a twelve year old. The taboo on that came from those evil secular humanists.
>>538511696> Dawkins Defends 'Mild' PedophiliaThis makes a bunch of things fall into place, actually.
>>538516775Should I magically will my brain to start believing in a god because the outcomes for society will be better? I don't think that is even possible.
>>538516736based and redpilled. become anti-christ
>>538516724>Yes, and I countered it. Read it again.You didn't counter anything. Read again. You said there is no atheist sect in Hinduism. That was your original claim and I disproved it.>He is not fascist lol. Stop calling things you don't like fascism. And what is wrong with genocide?Promoting genocide isn't fascist? But at least Nazis like you are easy to expose.>Yeah he is a soft atheist. If you are interested in strong atheist arguments look up hard atheism.I did, and thats why I left atheism. Realized right there that it's just another belief and an imaginary load of shit. People like Dawkins, Hitchens and Harris are cuckold atheists with insecurity issues.> Will continue replying if the thread is still up then.Don't care, because I won't reply to you anymore. You cannot reason with those who support genocide.
Hitchens was based, as was the extermination of human-sacrificing natives and the slaughter of muzloids post 9/11. Cope and seethe.
can I get a serious reply from a christian about this meme? it's been a mindfuck to learn jesus ordered the jews to pull this shit on non-jews>inb4 millstone verse as its not about literal children
Hitchens appealed to a certain demographic: White American anglophile midwits who grew up watching Masterpiece Theatre and think any arrogant blowhard with a "posh" Oxbridge accent must be really smart. Additionally, his louche manner made his fanboys think they were being "rebels" and "fighting the system", when in fact they were just as much puppets of the system as the dumb hick evangelicals they looked down on.>sure, we're supporting this zog war, just like those backwoods bible-thumpers, but WE'RE doing it so Baghdad can have gay marriage and rainbow-dildo-butt-monkey parades. Take THAT, you stupid bible-thumpers!
>>538511696There's 42,000+ denominations of Christianity. I am BEGGING you, please stop being so fucking retarded. Pascal's Wager isn't a wager, it's a ganging-pressing threat.
>>538517084Knowledge is a subset of belief. Have you actually tried to seek God, anon?It's what Im trying to do. I'm studying various religions and hopefully I'll find out which one is true. I think it's Islam.
>>538516903Yes but also I think some religious people are retarded enough that they are genuinely making the "its bad therefore its false" fallacy.Just because something is good doesn't make it true and just because something is bad doesn't make it false.
>>538516903As a collective, you should indeed choose whatever's convenient, which is atheism. As an individual you are responsible for yourself. Now as collective individuals? That's a very difficult community to gather. Too many want to play sigmas. There's no humility.Personally I'm going through a very difficult stage in my life.
>>538517353>There's 42,000+ denominations of Christianity.Almost all of these denominations are irrelevant. My strategy is to read only the Protestant, Catholic and Orthodox Bibles. That's it.
>>538517361I have been brought up in a strict muslim household. I know first hand how bad religion is. I left that shit 25 years ago mate. The best thing anyone can do to move away from the monotheisms is to read their writings.
>>538516619Same here. It's amazing how deep that shit digs into your psyche. I think the only thing that eventually got me to where I am now was instinct that kept telling me that yeah, I believe this, but something's amiss; it kind of added up, but not really, and it wasn't something that I could ignore. Part of the reason why is that with indoctrination comes, I don't know the word for it, but exdoctrination describes it - it's as much what you reject as it is what you embrace. That left my natural pre-"education" perceptions as the last place I'd think to look for answers, but there they were.
>>538511696>How the fuck did so many people fall for this?They lost the plot.>Is this the best of what the religion of reason has to offer?A bunch of jews and milquetoast anglos trying to sell their books? Hardly.
But atheism has never been a viable option no matter the circumstances, yeah you can safely go all out on it.It's like bringing up Dragon Ball or The Beatles on the philosophical round table.
>>538517361>find out which one is trueI think that even if you presuppose the existence of God, any definition of the entity renders it so far beyond our ability to understand that, in my opinion, your chances of conceiving so much as its motivations (much less its nature) is biologically precluded by humans. IF some God exists, I'm sure we would be able to perceive it physically and dimensionally. Put an ant in front of a speaker blasting Mozart at 100db and that ant will feel the pressure waves as a physical sensation. But never in a million years of sitting in front of that speaker would an ant be able to comprehend so much as music itself -- its boundaries and guidelines; its mores and conventions -- much less its abstract, emotive payload or the being which created it. Mozart, to an ant, just IS. To the ant, Mozart is just a phenomenon. It is we who have the ability to discern it who can apprehend its nature.God is probably the same way, and as such, the likelihood that all the world's religious texts have come a fraction of a percent of the way to describing this entity is effectively zero.
>>538517507Okay, tell me why Islam is bad.Also, how many rakats are there in Wudu? You'd be surprised how many "ex-Muslims" get it wrong. Too bad I can't question you in person, because you can rely on chatgpt.>The best thing anyone can do to move away from the monotheisms is to read their writings.The best thing anyone can do to move away from atheisms is to read their writings.
>>538511696>>538512472>>538512931>I was Atheist! I read the holy scriptures of Atheism! And I followed the Prophets!the level of larping... Ah, my Godness !
No one is showing up on the call, nice.>>538517177>You didn't counter anythingI did. I was arguing that hinduism in general was not atheist. It isn't. You are focusing on just a small portion of hinduism that is atheist. Fair, but that does refute hinduism in general. Exceptions prove the rule. I even gave you an example of the same logical fallacy applied to christianity. Seriously, read it again.>Promoting genocide isn't fascist? Correct. Fascism has only existed since the 20th century. Genocide is ages old. >But at least Nazis like you are easy to expose.Fascism=/=Nazism and I am neither. I oppose untermensch nationalism and untermensch socialism. I am sorry but namecalling is a pretty cheap move. Attack the arguments, not me. Even if I was a nazi/fascist, which I am not, what is so wrong with genocide? Please explain. You wouldnt genocide all your enemies? I would and I would feel very good about it. Might is right.>I did, and thats why I left atheismYeah, I was also very underwhelmed when I found out that none of them were hard atheists. Fucking take a stance already lol. >You cannot reason with those who support genocide.You can. You are just a morally uptight person when it comes down to this topic. Okay, so at least you have a moral foundation. I have a different one. It is just a politically incorrect one, but hey you are on /pol/ lol.
>>538517682Have you actually done any research with religious texts? Or did you just choose to believe what's only in your head?
>>538517856>but that does refute hinduism in general.does NOT refute lol*
Hitchens would pick on old boomer priests that couldn't keep up with his comedic pilpul and would curse them out for attacking his faggot degenerate friend
>>538517951I can see why you would prefer delving into sectarianism to engaging with the point I was making. I don't blame you for it. If it makes you feel any better, this question is kind of a kill shot. No one can answer it without giving something up. Aquinas couldn't answer the question I'm asking you, so don't feel bad for changing the subject.
>>538517597based nietzschean
>>538517833You think it's not possible to leave atheism? Does this thought make you uncomfortable?
>>538511696Reason always leads towards theism and away from atheism. Atheism is a superstition, also known as the belief in something without a cause. Theists understand cause and effect, which is why they understand that there must be a First Cause.
>>538518182I hope that he gets very uncomfortable. "Don't leave the flock!" Fucking herd animals
>>538511696You sought these people out because you cant think for yourself. Most atheists just get on with it. The ones that try to find some orthodoxy, some authority, they're just religious faggots who are afraid to larp. You hate them now because you see something hateful about yourself. But you're not that guy anymore right? The creator of the universe fucked around in the middle east a few thousand years ago and the myths, folklore and prophesied chosen one of the jews is obviously the metaphysical truth, obviously.
>>538512183You haven't made an argument either. You've said nothing worth addressing lol
>>538517719Once again. Bad/good has nothing to do with true/false. And therefore the islam good/bad thing is irrelevant.I have no idea how many rakats in wudu. IIRC my grandad did explain it to me back in the day when I was a young lad. Not like I remember.
>>538512472>euphoricThank you for the kek anon
>>538511696Because atheists are blinded by a rage they picked up from reddit. They simply cannot live and let live if you're a Christian, but only if you're Christian oddly enough. I say this as an agnostic, athioids are the most closed-minded and irrationally angry people that exist. Insufferable cunts.
>>538518125Anon, have you done ANY research? Be honest? Or did you simply take the easy path, decided to blindly believe there is no God?A lot of so-called atheists insisted they did their research. But if I scrutinized them... they would react with anger and insecurity.
>>538511696There is no such thing as an ex atheist. You are born an atheist and will die an atheist. Same as everyone else. Religion is man made mental illness.
>>538518271>Reason always leads towards theism and away from atheismNo it fucking doesn't. Both theists and atheists have flocks of superstitious people. And theism is even more honest about having a majority of superstitious people among their ranks. >Theists understand cause and effect, And atheists don't? Come on.>which is why they understand that there must be a First Cause.Both atheists and theists can embrace the big bang theory. Big bang theory is very popular among atheists so I really don't understand your fucking point here
>>538518293Your idea of Christianity is an evangelical heresy.
>>538518146 Theres nothing Nietzschean about rap.
>>538518413Reddit moment
>>538518412You're coping right now. Still trying to bait me into a different conversation. If you respond directly to my point, maybe we can have a conversation. Then, maybe we can talk about credentials or reading lists or whatever totally orthogonal garbage you're trying to draw me into. You know my position and my argument. Refute it or stop posturing. You're embarrassing yourself with all this pretense.
>>538518182if you start collecting stamps after a lifetime of not collecting stamps, do you say you left "not-stamp-collectism"?mother fucker, not believing some goat fucker's supersticious beliefs is the default. you don't "leave it"
>>538518146Lol so you're a wigger? Awesome dude I'm glad for you lol
>>538518500The picture literally explains why it is Nietzschean.
>>538518069Hitchens fancied himself a philosopher, but he was basically just a midwit sophist permanently stuck in adolescence.
>>538511696Very similar phenotype to Michael Aquino
>>538518517Yeah, your argument is only in your head. You didn't figure ANYTHING out, anon. Nothing at all. You didn't test yourself or tried to find out the correct answer out there. But that's your choice, and I understand it. Because I don't expect people to do the hard work.
>>538518558Yeah but I also make fun of wiggers. And niggers. I am just an open minded person and I don't like to be limited. I am white so why the fuck should I limit myself lol? White people are literally the extreme race, even too extreme for themselves. Based
>>538518644Sophism can be very based though. It can also be very cringe like with anti-elitist views.
>>538518412Here's ONE reason why I don't believe in, at the very least, gods that are claimed to be all powerful. Like in Islam.If your god is bound by logic, then your god is not all powerful by definition since he would need to be unbounded.If your god is not bound by logic, then you can no longer make any claim whatsoever about said god. Since any claim you make will put your god back inside a logical framework which he is not bound by.
>>538518635Would Ayn Rand have approved of rap? She had a huge crush on a psycho who raped and butchered a 12-year-old girl, which is pretty Nietzschean by that Twitter definition, so she shouldn't have any problem with slappin' hoes aroun' n bustin' a cap in a nigga's ass, gnome sane?
>>538518550Do you believe God doesn't exist? Yes or No?And what makes on stamp collecting and not the other according to your analogy?
>>538518749You sound like a retard, no surprise there for a wigger.
Still waiting for an explanation of this "mild pedophilia" thing. Imagine defending 18 yo magical age of consent thinking only because the law says so. Dawkins probably had good points
>>538518922>She had a huge crush on a psycho who raped and butchered a 12-year-old girl, which is pretty Nietzschean by that Twitter definition>[Rand] announced that the world was divided between a small minority of Supermen who are productive and “the naked, twisted, mindless figure of the human Incompetent” who, like the Leninists, try to feed off them. He is “mud to be ground underfoot, fuel to be burned.” It is evil to show kindness to these “lice”: The “only virtue” is “selfishness.”>She meant it. Her diaries from that time, while she worked as a receptionist and an extra, lay out the Nietzschean mentality that underpins all her later writings. The newspapers were filled for months with stories about a serial killer called William Hickman, who kidnapped a 12-year-old girl called Marion Parker from her junior high school, raped her, and dismembered her body, which he sent mockingly to the police in pieces. Rand wrote great stretches of praise for him, saying he represented “the amazing picture of a man with no regard whatsoever for all that a society holds sacred, and with a consciousness all his own. A man who really stands alone, in action and in soul. . . . Other people do not exist for him, and he does not see why they should.” She called him “a brilliant, unusual, exceptional boy,” shimmering with “immense, explicit egotism.” Rand had only one regret: “A strong man can eventually trample society under its feet. That boy [Hickman] was not strong enough.”https://firstthings.com/ayn-rands-superman-a-serial-killer-and-rapist/
>>538518956Cont.Or is your answer neither? Braindead? In which case the non-stamp collecting analogy would be justified.
>>538518922Idc about Rand because Rational Egoism is just a bastardized version of Stirners trve Egoism. Also, imagine believing in the NAP lol. Fucking moralist trash.>>538518960Oh, okay
>>538518748I mean, I understand why you don't want to answer the question. It's dangerous to everything you believe. The best concession you can make is that God's nature is a total fucking mystery to us, and just to cut out the foreplay, this is the point at which I'd mock you (probably pretty viciously) for following the proscriptions of a book which pretends to know the nature of a mystery as it tells you what your political platform/sexual habits/dietary choices/etc should be. I get that. I get that you're posturing because you don't have anything substantive to say. I get this because I have seen many people posture in the exact same way in front of this exact same argument before. No surprise there.What I can never understand is why you guys are always such fucking CUNTS about it. Have some fuckin humility. Isn't that in your holy book?
>>538517682> IF some God exists, I'm sure we would be able to perceive it physically and dimensionally.What a retarded idea. The very first verse of the Bible precludes this.In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.God created the universe. If God created the universe, He necessarily predates it and is capable of existing outside of it.You are a fish looking for a fishtank factory inside of your little glass bowl and failing to find one.
>>538511696Both Abrahamism and Atheism are brain damage.
>>538518550>if you start collecting stamps after a lifetime of not collecting stamps, do you say you left "not-stamp-collectism"?I'll take your autistic bait.If you were a vegetarian for many years, you do end up leaving it after eating meat.Atheism is a claim that's either true or false. It's a worldview and a statement about reality. When you say God doesn't exist, you're making a statement that is either true or false. Don't try using the cuckold "lack of belief in God" definition unless you wish to look like an idiot.If you say you don't collect stamps, then you are also making a claim thats true or false (which can be tested). Youre trying to twist the narrative and make it irrelevant like stamp collecting, but guess what, some stamps are worth a fortune. Picture related, you woud be fucking pissed if someone tricked you into throwing it away.
>>538518840I only like sophists with posh brit accents who drink and smoke on stage, despite it being against the rules. Way to stick it to The Man! Ima go fight in the Middle East for Freedom and Feminism! Take THAT, all you christcuck prudes!
>>538518480>Both theists and atheists have flocks of superstitious peopleI didn't say that all religious people are reasonable. I said that reason always leads to theism.>And atheists don't? Come on.No, they absolutely do not. You cannot claim to understand cause and effect while also claiming that there is no First Cause.>Both atheists and theists can embrace the big bang theory. Big bang theory is very popular among atheists so I really don't understand your fucking point hereThe "big bang" is not a theory about the nature of a First Cause. A First Cause must be absolutely First. Meaning it exists prior to matter, prior to time, prior to space and prior to everything that exists. The "big bang" just asserts that matter and energy were collected before they expanded, but it says nothing about where matter and energy came from. Someone who actually understands the nature of cause and effect will also understand that life can only come from Life, and mind can only come from Mind. It necessarily leads towards theism.
>>538519167Said the reddit fence sitter
>>538519338>reddit hates atheism
>>538519260>Don't try using the cuckold "lack of belief in God" definition unless you wish to look like an idiot.But that is what it means, forcing all atheists to identify as “””agnostic””” is retarded because you’re constructing a definition of knowledge where nobody is allowed to “know” anything
>>538519112That's nice. How, exactly, does your point address my broader point? Actually, maybe we can play a game. Given the broader point I was making, from which that individual sentence was cherry-picked, what do you think I'm going to say to you about "bro just trust what the Bible says"?
>>538519108Come on anon, don't project like that. >The best concession you can make is that God's nature is a total fucking mystery to us>following the proscriptions of a book which pretends to know the nature of a mysteryAnd how can you be so certain of this? Have you read any of the religious books? Have you finished the Bible and the Quran?
>>538519510That's nice, or whatever.
>>538519106>Also, imagine believing in the NAP lol. Fucking moralist trash.The NAP was a figleaf. The 'Gina Tingle is the acid test. When Hickman kidnapped, raped, and butchered 12-year-old Marion Parker, Alisa Rosenbaum's jewish vagina gushed and tingled, signaling the presence of a TRUE Nietzschean alpha male. Her loins were ready to receive the superior sperm to breed the Ultimate Jew Atheist World Conquer of the goyim.If someone rapes and murders your little daughter, accept it as a sign of a superior man who makes the vaginas of ugly old jewesses tingle and gush.
>>538519491Even from your POV you can still collect clues, purpose and meaning. Imago Dei which makes sense from first principles alone. It's fallacious to be handicapped ultimately.
>>538519477Academics disagree with you anon. They showed that atheism is a belief. If you tried to insist "it's a lack of belief in God"... you might end up ridiculed and humiliated. Because it shows you cannot think on your own.https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/atheism-agnosticism/I'm not forcing anything anon. I'm just questioning disbelievers and pointing out their own doubts and insecurities.Answer the following: are you an atheist or an agnostic?
>>538519719Cont.There's sin, shame, dignity, good, bad, fall, redemption, etc. all derived from first principles which can connect back to solid grounded explanations given by the Bible.
>>538519783As defined by that specific paper id be an agnostic. But if you operated on that framework for everything else you would also have no right to make a claim that I am NOT a monkey in the rainforest using a jury rigged computer made up of wood and powered by fruit. So it’s retarded
>>538519477Anything can be termed a lack of belief of the contrary, it doesn't mean anything. It's a weak cop out which doesn't even hold.
>>538520007Wooooah you tripped up someone with a double negative you’re so smart
>>538517682>IF some God exists, I'm sure we would be able to perceive it physically and dimensionallyIt's the dead opposite, actually. If something is divine it can't be perceived by the senses. If it can be perceived by the senses, then by default it cannot be divine. Their natures are contrary, inherently. You should read Plotinus to disabuse yourself of that assumption, because it could not be more wrong if you tried.
>>538518146Rap is subversive, so it's a mixed bag. Nietzsche explicitly advocated against chasing money, women, wealth and material comfort. However, the tough, affirmative life force that embraces the tragic and gritty aspects of existence rather than denying them, is what Nietzsche would admire. There is a direct line between the "cowboy" and the "gangster rapper". However, the "cowboy" itself was a subversion of the previous hero archetype, i.e. the injun. Be careful with these jews.
>>538520095In order to confuse the enemy, you first have to confuse yourself.
>>538519993Okay, you admit you're agnostic. Agnosticism rejects atheism just as much as theism. Now lets see if you have the balls to dismiss atheism.Say: atheism is just another belief and I don't find it convincing.>you would also have no right to make a claim that I am NOT a monkey in the rainforest using a jury rigged computer made up of wood and powered by fruitYou're not.
>>538519491I would say your general point is fairly perceptive and that man's inability to fully comprehend the divine is supported Biblically.In Exodus 33, for example, God says that Moses can not look upon His face and my only glimpse His form as He passes by. To do more would kill him. Man is not capable of fully understanding the Almighty.Given that human beings have intuited that there is a spiritual/supernatural component to life more or less universally for all of human history except now, in the post-WW2 west, I would say that humanity HAS felt the impact of both divine good and evil and that it's fairly self-evident.
God doesnt real mortimer
>>538520300>You're not.You can’t know that with 100% certainty you have to say you don’t know otherwise you’re making an unverifiable claim :)
>>538520107>Rap is subversiveWell, that goes without saying since it was cooked up by jews (Lyor Cohen, Clive Davis, Jerry Heller, Lucian Grainge, Frederick Rubin, et al.) who used their pet niggers as the vehicle for our subversion.
>>538520349Ah, always evading. At least cuckold disbelievers like you provide bottomless comedy.>You can’t know that with 100% certaintyMeh, my knowledge about it is good enough.
>>538520549You have zero knowledge about whether or not I’m a magical rainforest monkey just like I have zero knowledge on if God is real. So why do you think you get to say no and I have to say maybe?
>>538511696>mild pedophiliaI suspect this is talking about being attracted to post-pubescent girls and the author is trying to demonize him in the most retarded way possible. He is a biologist, so a biological look on sex would make sense coming from him.>>538512472>main downfall of atheism>vast majority of his own community are saying it sucks dick and is massively cringe
>>538520939Because knowledge of God is a matter of pure reason and requires only logic whereas knowledge of a magical monkey requires empirical evidence because it's a claim about the physical world. A man does not require physical evidence to assert modus ponens, but he does require physical evidence to assert that he discovered something within the world.
>>538516775It was the abrahamic faiths that championed importing a shit ton of low IQ third-worlders and sending missionaries to indoctrinate them all with bronze-age morality.
>>538511696I think the funniest thing to me was Dawkins hawking atheism as a religion of peace contemporary to Pol Pot's wild ride.
>>538516619>>538517524You're both full of shit. You don't just decide to believe in a bunch of fairy tales unless you've fucked up your life to the point where a gaggle of cultists love-bombing you feels like your only path out. Atheism, at the very least agnostic atheism since it's impossible to prove the non-existence of something, is a far more stable position.
>>538519260>Don't try using the cuckold "lack of belief in God" definition unless you wish to look like an idiot.Why? I don't believe in god. I don't pretend I know god does not exist for a fact, but I don't believe your claim if you say he does.
>>538520939Anon, knowledge isn't perfect certainty, it's a well supported belief. I'm not going into any details explaining epistemology, but your game is obvious. And pathetic.Change definitions and meanings, be evasive and vague, be technically correct but highly misleading, and then confuse with layers upon layers while hoping no one sees through the bullshit. This is what disbelievers are like. This is also why I left atheism. It's only a matter of time before other people catch up with your playbook. That's when I expect a religious revival across all of society.
>>538519318>I said that reason always leads to theism.No it does not lmao
>>538519260Burden of proof lies with those making the claim. Being a theist is the claim that you believe God exists. Atheists call bullshit and demand proof. You can't prove the non-existence of something, so theists need to back their claims. Otherwise, you're gonna end up with a near limitless amount of gods you've got to disprove without rendering your own false.
>>538521733Yes, it absolutely does. A coherent worldview always affirms the existence of a First Cause. To do otherwise is to reject cause and effect as a whole, which is to reject logic as a whole.
Anyone who studies the NDE phenomenon, terminal lucidity, death bed visions, with an honest and open mind, comes to the conclusion that there's something else going on than just the physical world. The excuse of "it's just your brain hallucinating!" quickly falls apart as you look into the MASSIVE number of cases.
>>538521819>A coherent worldview always affirms the existence of a First Cause.>hurr durr muh Kalam cosmological argument durrAnd the first cause is god... how? If god can exist without a cause, so can the universe. Your logic sucks. Kill yourself.
>>538521798Theism has always been substantiated by reason. Atheists disagree only because they refuse to trust reason. They think that logic itself is insufficient to come to truthful conclusions and demand physical evidence, which makes them materialists. Which, in turn, makes them believers that truth itself is relative. Which is an incoherent and self-refuting worldview.
>>538521489>You don't just decide to believe in a bunch of fairy talesLike atheism?>you've fucked up your life to the point where a gaggle of cultists love-bombing youThis is exactly what New Atheism was. A cult where members were love bombing newcomers, saying how special they are and smarter than everyone else.> it's impossible to prove the non-existence of somethingYou can prove a 0 anon.>at the very least agnostic atheismGo on, anon. Explain to me what so-called agnostic atheism is?
>>538521819What makes you think your God is the First Cause? Simply stating the universe has always existed in one form or another is a far easier explanation. An omnipotent consciousness that manifested all of it just adds superfluous complexity.
I don't believe in the jew God but have never listened to any of these guys. They're not the equivalent of your priests for people who don't believe in god.
>>538521819Also, nothing says infinite regress is impossible. Many physicists believe the universe is eternal in some form. Kill yourself again.
>>538521950The First Cause is necessarily the cause of everything sequent to it. It's the sole source of existence, making it supreme and perfect in all ways.>If god can exist without a cause, so can the universeThen you're claiming that the universe is the First Cause. You haven't refuted the existence of the First Cause, you've simply asserted that something else is it because you were unable to engage with the question properly. But if the universe is the First Cause then that makes the universe our creator, and that makes it in possession of Life and Mind, since whatever is the author of Life and Mind must have it in order to grant it to its sequent effects.
>>538521884I also want to add is that it seems a lot of these prominent atheists actually worked backwards from their thesis. They should be looking to criticize and explore questions of life after death, rather than hyper focus on religion. When you go after religion, you're ignoring the area's in which the evidence does exist, mainly in the ones I noted. It feels to me that it's the big reason why so many of these prominent atheists seem so incredibly ignorant about the subject- because they are. They're good at disseminating religion, but they are deeply ignorant and generally uninformed about evidence that exists that you continue to exist after death. It only makes logical sense that if you're going to go after religion, you should first go after the concept of life after death itself first.
>>538521959>Atheists disagree only because they refuse to trust reasonThe fuck are you talking about. It's theists that abandon reason in favor of faith.>They think that logic itself is insufficient to come to truthful conclusions and demand physical evidenceThat's called being pragmatic. You aren't gonna get very far with logic if all you've got are fairy tales from a book. You need something concrete to work with.>Which, in turn, makes them believers that truth itself is relativeIt's context sensitive.
>>538522108>>538522019kill yourself
>>538511696>How the fuck did so many people fall for this?Fall for what?
>>538521717>Anon, knowledge isn't perfect certainty, it's a well supported beliefOk but I have designed the magic monkey claim such that there is no possible way for you to obtain proof I am not such. Therefore you are agnostic on the issue
>>538521971>You can prove a 0 anon0 is an abstraction, retard.>Go on, anon. Explain to me what so-called agnostic atheism is?Already did right here >>538521798
>>538521798There is no burden of proof without God to begin with as there's no proving or knowing anything.>>538521991No, it simplifies everything into making sense.
>>538511696They're not the religion of reason, they're the religion of irrationality.Logic and truth are rooted in God, to be divorced from God is to be divorced from logic & truth.If they were truly logical, they would be Christian.
>>538511696Do I need to check their early life?
>>538518987Dawkins almost always has and has had rational points when you actually listen to what he has said.Every time some dickhead says "oh dawkins the boss of atheism said so and so". Then you go listen to him and its literally the most rational sound of mind thing ever.But whatever. I expect strawman after strawman.
>>538522108>you've simply assertedLoke everyone who asserts their favorite flavor of God is the first cause
>>538522221>There is no burden of proof without God to begin with as there's no proving or knowing anythingThis makes no sense at all.>No, it simplifies everything into making senseIt adds an extra layer of complexity. It does the exact opposite of simplifying.
>>538521701Do you also lack belief in atheism?When people claim "I believe there is no God" or "There is no God", do you also respond with "prove it"? Do you also find these claims unconvincing?How can I be sure there is no God? Because others say so? Or like some cuckold disbeliever, because they insist they how they only doubt the existance of God? Doubting isn't evidence anon. Doubting doesn't make it true.
>>538522249>Logic and truthAre unfaithful
>>538522019Infinite is more of a mathematical thing...it doesn't really exist in physical systems. You'd need infinite energy for an infinite universe, and that's not possible under real world physics.
>>538521991I don't think that "my God" is the First Cause. The First Cause is God because it's first, because whatever is first must also be Supreme by logical necessity.>Simply stating the universe has always existed in one form or another is a far easier explanationAll you're doing here is switching labels without addressing anything of substance. If the universe is First in the order of ontology, then the universe must pre-possess everything that exists. Something cannot exist unless it exists within the first cause. So you're claiming that the universe is in possession of Life and Mind, which is the same as claiming that the universe is God. Which is what the people you say you disagree with are already claiming.> An omnipotent consciousness that manifested all of it just adds superfluous complexity.No, asserting that Life and Mind arose randomly from nothing adds superfluous complexity, and all complexities are falsities. Truth and simplicity go hand in hand, and the truth is that existence is absolutely simple. It's so simple that everything in existence stems from One.
>>538522371>Do you also lack belief in atheism?Thats a retarded question.Atheism is the disbelief or lack of belief in God or gods
>>538522019Logic absolutely 100% says at every possible juncture that infinite regresses do not exist and cannot exist. A series of potentials with no actual to begin the chain does not have substance. Or in other words, an infinite regress cannot subsist on itself, meaning it must subsist on something else.
>>538522364It answers the intellectual and spiritual question. Unless you're saying the source lacks those things.These things don't even have to be said, it's not an organic and natural way of thinking, just looking for squabbles honestly.
>>538512472Damn, what's the religion called where I don't believe in fucking Harry Potter?
>>538522221>There is no burden of proofThen there's no reason why anyone should believe in your personal feelings and opinions
>>538522375>I don't think that "my God" is the First Cause. The First Cause is God because it's first, because whatever is first must also be Supreme by logical necessityI'll refine my statement: What makes you think God is the First Cause? The universe always existing is far simpler and requires far less explanation.>All you're doing here is switching labels without addressing anything of substanceI'm not. One is an omnipotent consciousness. The other lacks will or motive and simply is.>If the universe is First in the order of ontology, then the universe must pre-possess everything that exists. Something cannot exist unless it exists within the first cause. So you're claiming that the universe is in possession of Life and Mind, which is the same as claiming that the universe is GodI disagree with this. I see complexity emerging from simplicity. Things can exist that didn't exist prior. New, unique arrangements are always being formed.>asserting that Life and Mind arose randomly from nothing adds superfluous complexityNot randomly. Iteratively and through emergent behavior of the underlying mechanics that make them up. All you need is an imperfect replicator and a medium in which it can replicate.
>>538521798>Burden of proof lies with those making the claim.Exactly. Once you make a claim, the burden of proof is on you.So if someone says "there is no God" - then this person is also making a claim, which then requires proof.That's why disbelievers are obsessed with changing the definition of atheism into "I lack belief in God". Because it keeps the claim only on theists (NOT atheists). But academics see through this "lack of belief in God" game and don't fall for it. However, the average person isn't aware of the game and gets indoctrinated by the cult.
>>538522666>666Of course it's this faggot.
>>538511696Nigger, you want to talk about pedophilia and rape, look no further than the Catholic Church, a fucking international network of pedos with literally hundredths of thousands of cases, more than 300 thousand in France alone. Nobody beats religion when it comes to pedos and rape at an industrial scale.And you want to talk about "illegal" invasions of Muslims? Nigger there are no human rights outside of Western civilization. The Muslims wipe their ass with them, kill the gays, oppress the women, religious minorities and the own population in general. The vast majority of their 51 countries are brutal dictatorships that rule by force, many had legal slavery until 1981 like Mauritania (Saudis until 1962, UAE until 1963, Oman 1970, etc, etc, etc ), and you want to cry foul when somebody stronger does what they do to their populations to them? Go fuck yourself, what goes around comes around.
>>538522510>It answers the intellectual and spiritual questionSo does emergence. Simple things interact with each other to become, collectively, greater than the sum of their parts.
>>538522778>>666The amount of times I've hurt your feelings lol
>>538522767>disbelieversHah, you lost shit skin.
>>538522767The claim isn't necessarily that there is no God. It's that you lack sufficient evidence to prove that God exists and can be easily dismissed as a fabrication.
>>538512085Christianity was a kike psyop, you dumb cattle.
>>538522867Ironic that you will take life which is the only thing against entropy to make your case.
>>538522946>the only thing against entropyHow so? If anything, life rides the direction of entropy to keep itself going.
>>538515887You don't even know the origin of the word kike >>538517091>say they are amoral>say become anti-christIt's like you're not even trying to keep the mask on>>538521383That's the scam. Just like with muslims. Pretend pol pot and others weren't real atheists.
>>538522697>I disagree with this.That's not something you get to agree or disagree with, it's the foundation of logic itself. Ex nihilo nihil fit is one of the primary logical axioms. It asserts that something cannot emerge from nothing. There is never such a thing as an "emergent property". Wherever something exists, that thing pre-existed within its immediate cause. When something new appears to exist, it's just that, an appearance. It's an illusion that only exists as a consequence of ignorance, but it's never an accurate representation of reality, because reality is determined by logic and logic states that nothing cannot produce something. Any worldview that has to violate logical axioms such as Ex nihilo and the law of non-contradiction is by definition incoherent and insane.
>>538521819Why do you think the first cause is yahweh and not allah, or krishna, or something else entirely? People like jumping directly from a vague notion you may be able to consider a deity to the specific one they believe in. Maybe the first cause is entirely natural, which would support the big bang model.
>>538523046Why is one infinitely big turtle more logical than an endless tower of them? They’re both infinite.
>>538511696>How the fuck did so many people fall for this? Really bad religious education in one factor. E.g. Lutherans just avoid all the stuff that seems against modern sensibilities or difficult to answer. Like you'd expect the people at confirmation camps etc. to be able to deal with Dawkins-tier concerns from 15 year olds but they can't and don't want to. Just have a study bible at hand or something ffs. Even if you don't know why God smote these or those peoples, if you're a believer you should be able to admit those peoples must have had it coming, but no.So despite church connection from birth to adulthood you're left with an impression the christian worldview really is contradictory, childish, inconsistent and incoherent. Because modern protestants are basically hippie gay atheists themselves, and a consistent coherent christian worldview can't fully align with hippie gay atheism.
>>538511696So you went and belieeved?
>>538521798>human beings perceived sight for hundreds of thousands of years before anyone knew what a light particle was.>human being perceived sounds for hundreds of thousands of years before anyone knew what a sound wave was.>human beings, universally, across all cultures, perceived the supernatural, transcendental, and divine for hundreds of thousands of years but it's all just invisible nonsense gobbiltygook and you can toss it out.Have you considered that you just have a bad relationship with your parents that you project onto all authority?
>>538522778The Ghost of Tel Aviv can't help but come to these thread and spread the talmudic faith>>538522939
>>538522515Strawman. Anon, don't play this game. Do you know how many scientists get their respective fields wrong? It happens all the time, and most publications turn out to be false.If scientific theories get proven wrong, then these disproven theories are manmade inventions. Like Lord of the Rings, much about the Middle Earth is scientifically correct, but it doesn't elves and orks are real. Should false scientific theories be placed into the fantasy section of the library=Should we also mock scientists like this, saying they're living in a fantasy world? (note:some academics actually mock like this, it's like highschool)Should we take another step further and say these scientists should be locked into mental institutions? Insanity (by definition) means the person is not in touch with reality, so scientists who get their observations wrong are technically insane.
>>538523046>That's not something you get to agree or disagree with, it's the foundation of logic itselfIt's not. Things can exist that didn't prior and they can cease to exist in the future. While the matter and forces might be consistent, the abstraction that are made from them aren't so firmly planted in reality.>It asserts that something cannot emerge from nothingYou just refuted the concept of God. My claim is that the universe always existed, in one form or another. Something was always there. Sure you could say the same for God, but that's just another layer of complexity that makes even less sense.
>>538523352Answer shit skin. What is it called? If you cannot answer this very simple question, you lose. This isn't up for debate.
>>538523352>but it doesn't elves and orks are real *but it doesn't mean elves and orks are realSmall grammar mistake
>>538523046This post is why philosophy in general is a collection of fart sniffing circlejerks. This argument as it related to God is also interesting because it requires God to have undesirable qualities. The would has death and suffering. Does God also contain death and suffering? I think many Christians and Muslims at least would disagree with this. Or if you think evil is a thing that would require God to contain evil since none of those things can cone from nothing.
>>538511696>Ex-atheist here.there's literally no such thing possible. You are still an atheist. You've just decided to larp because someone on the internet convinced you christianity is the new rock and roll and also based and redpilled. How do you even become an ex-atheist? God still doesn't exist. What changed? Nothing changed
>>538523446You're right anon, strawman is not up for debateWish I could stay longer but gtg now
>>538522939Nobody mentioned Christianity until you showed up, dirty disingenuous lying KIKEDouble KIKETriple KIKE even
>>538523257>human beings were ignorant of how things worked until they dug deeper and found more answers and increasingly more complex questionsHave you considered you're just too simple to understand past what is considered "lies to children?"
>>538523516>God still doesn't exist. What changed?Dropping the prior opinion I reckon.
>>538523563Dunkin on niggers with this one simple trick: being human (White.)
>>538523516at least your close mindedness is easy to spot
>>538523353>Things can exist that didn't prior and they can cease to exist in the futureNo, they literally cannot. Not even in physical terms. The amount of energy and matter in the universe is a constant. When you burn a log, that log does not disappear. It simply transforms into something else.>While the matter and forces might be consistent, the abstraction that are made from them aren't so firmly planted in reality.You don't "make abstractions" in regards to Truth, Truth simply is. Truth must be firmly planted in reality because reality and Truth are synonyms. You sound like you're somebody who believes that Truth is subject and not objective.>You just refuted the concept of God.No, I didn't. God never emerged from nothing, because God always was.>Something was always thereThen you believe in God, but you just have a personal allergy to the word "God". Call it Truth or One or The Good if you have to, but the fact remains that all of existence stems from a single all containing principle. There is no such thing as something that comes from nothing, meaning there is a foundation of Something.
>>538521798I think therefore I amAtheists have been btfo since Descartes at the very least You are a fish denying the existence of water
>>538523125No, only one is infinite. The definition of infinity is "that which nothing can be added to", not "that which can always be added to". Somebody who counts to infinity never reaches infinity, meaning an endless stack cannot be infinity. Infinity is "everything all at once in one mass". If it's not that, then it's not infinite, because it's being pieced apart rather than remaining whole.
>>538523625dropping based on what?>>538523630again, what changed?
>>538523594Check out this crucified kike rabbi. Lol
>>538511696In the early 00s when the New Atheism thing was taking off, we had no idea the Hellscape that awaited us. The fallout from 9/11 hadn’t fully registered yet and we were still living in the afterglow of the late 90s “end of history” sense of security. It was not hard to ask the question “what do we need God for anyway? It looks like we’ve got things pretty figured out.” There was also a big push in entertainment media for “le brilliant atheist cool rebel guy” trope. Pic related was perhaps the biggest meme, but there were lots of characters who fit the same archetype. All this to say, New Atheism rose to prominence during a perfect storm of false sense of security that made faith in anything larger than oneself seem outdated and media hype that led many people, especially young White guys (myself included), astray.Christ is king.
>>538523605This isn't an argument, it's an insult. "These are lies. Whatever you believe is lies and you're stupid for believing them. No, I can't prove it. You have to prove it. The burden of proof is on you because I said so."Childish, impotent rage from fat neck-bearded atheists. Typical.
>>538523106All religions converge in agreement on what the First Cause is and why it's important. The symbols and names are the only thing that differs, and any sincere member of any religion will see much to agree with in other religions and almost nothing to disagree with. Truth is perennial, and religion is merely an expression of Truth.
>>538523778>The definition of infinity is "that which nothing can be added to"No it isn’t, infinity is a concept just like infinity+1
>>538523810CRUSTY KANG
>>538523796>no argumentEat shit kikeThat's what you do bestFilthy nutilated schmeckle rat faced inbred
>>538523871GO KISS SOME NIGGER FEET FAGGOT LOL
>>538523856If you can add one to infinity then the infinity you added to wasn't infinite, since it didn't contain the whole. That's a self-refuting proposition.
>>538523780>dropping based on what?Acknowledgement. You can't even be a consistent atheist cause the very concept in gibberish nonsense. Casting judgement upon the almighty eternal existence, the identity of reality. Like who are you? What do you think you are? It should be absurdly funny but it's exhausting.
>>538523924Go kiss your mohels mutilated cock as your fat yenta mother is railed by BWC you dumb kike incel
>>538514695Atheism was impossible in ancient Greece. If you tried to tell a Greek that Dionysus didn't exist, he'd pour a glass of wine and laugh at you. Not even the Epicureans went so far. They said that the gods were in a state of Ataraxia, completely indifferent to human affairs. They never said that the gods didn't exist. They said believe in the indifference of the gods, and you can be liberated from useless fear and guilt.
>>538523867https://christogenea.org/podcasts/society/exactly-why-jesus-christ-not-jew
>>538524060Read the information faggot, yeshua was a circumcised jewish rabbi.
>>538518956>Do you believe God doesn't exist?>>538519260>Atheism is a claim that's either true or false.this is the whole point of the stamp collecting analogyatheists are not claiming shit. there is no god manifesting itself in our reality that we purposefully deny or close our eyes towe don't need to prove that something extraordinary that doesn't produce any proof or leave behind any trace doesn't existit evidently doesn't exist. you want to prove something, prove it exists. or shut the fuck up>buh buh buh the gap!believing the universe always existed or some insane mathematical oddity that produces something out of nothing, or merely saying "I don't know" is still a more satisfying answer to the origin of the universe than "a wizard did it"
>>538524087Kill yourself CIGGER.
>>538524087Don’t feed him. Pearls before swine etc.
>>538524159Total cigger Death
>>538524143That doesn't answer the question. It's a simple yes or no.
>>538524023>Acknowledgement.of what? based on what? if you were an atheist and now you're not, what changed in between? one day, for no reason at all, you decided that akchyually god exists?
>>538523667>No, they literally cannot. Not even in physical termsYou missed the part where I mentioned abstractions. The log no longer exists as a log. Something else exists in its place, namely ash. Abstractions are far more ephemeral than the matter and forces that make them up. Life and minds are even higher layers of abstraction and, by extension, are far more fragile and ephemeral. A simple change in arrangement in the matter in your head (maybe lead takes the place of too many other elements in your nerves or even rapidly decelerates and shakes it all up) and suddenly your mind no longer exists, your life following shortly after as your organs no longer receive instructions.>God never emerged from nothing, because God always was.And I say the universe always existed. My explanation requires less steps. I don't need an omnipotent consciousness constructing everything, because it's all already there.>Then you believe in God, but you just have a personal allergy to the word "God"You're defining God to be so vague as to be composed of literally everything. I guess you could do that, but it doesn't really change my view that there's no higher consciousness creating and keeping tabs on everything.
>>538524005Infinite =/= all encompassing Infinite is just a concept it’s not a number and people discuss infinite+X all the time
>>538511696There is nothing to fall for. Atheism is not a belief system. Its an implicit state of being when you don't believe in any specific set of made up absurd nonsense.
>>538524261>of what? based on what?Based on what you already know, that's why it's called acknowledgement.
>>538523750>I think therefore I amWhat's this have to do with God?
>>538524220
>>538524328>Based on what you already knowwhich is...? are you gonna answer or will you run away again?
>>538524353C'mon... Say the other lines golem.Y'all are so utterly fucking raped it's unreal.
>>538523832>This isn't an argument, it's an insultIt was reciprocation of an insult. Look in a mirror, chump.
>>538524352You need to think dummy
>>538524506You don't think at all.
>>538524238do you need more helpful analogies, anon? there's this very famous one with spaghetti and meatballs, or maybe a dragon in my garage or a tiny teapot between earth and mars if you want something less reddit
>>538524405See:>>538519914>>538522510To answer, the knowledge that the world we experience is real, but not just what we perceive outside, but the spiritual too.
>>538518399Christianity is one of pillars of white genocide.
>>538524598No, I need an answer. We can do that later.
>>538524133>lies through its ugly hooked schnozzThere were no kikes back then you histrionic retard(maybe pharisees, and for them you can see John 8:44)They did not exist until the early 5th century ADI can even tell you where they spawned, how and whyDumb dirty kike, you are too stupid for this conversationCrack a book fucking imbecile
>>538524611i seriously underestimated how retarded you can be
>>538524675Will give you an answer. I believe that I am God, as in, realization if inner divine being by right conduct and meditation. I'm a Left Hand Path Darkness enjoyer.
>>538524750You're a heretic to every single prominent sect of jew worship (christianity.)You LARP for something even the insane faggot christians are t stupid enough to LARP as.
>>538524277I didn't miss it, I pointed out the very reason why it's wrong. There are no abstractions, because Truth is foundational. Mind isn't just "an idea", it's a reality. The same way that truth, reason, morality, goodness, justice, compassion and so on are all realities. They don't exist of the mind, the mind exists of them because their existence is primary and informing. You cannot believe that truth is objective while also believing that the products of truth are merely "abstractions", so what you're getting at is that you're a relativist. If that's the case, then you can't hold any belief without contradicting yourself.>less steps.Your explanation requires infinitely more steps. My position is that life came from Life and mind came from Mind. Your explanation is that an infinitely complex series of cascading events results in life and mind randomly existing by accident. Not only is your view overcomplicated, but it also places blind faith in random accident. It also contradicts reason on every level.>defining God to be so vague as to be composed of literally everything.That's everyone's definition of God. There is no such thing as a conception of God that doesn't make God the sole source of existence. If God existed within creation then he would be a creature and not a creator.>no higher consciousness creating and keeping tabs on everything.The thing that should disabuse you of that idea is the fact that consciousness can't exist without a higher consciousness. A consciousness can only come from Consciousness, otherwise you're asserting that something came from nothing, which is a self contradicting proposition. Or if you prefer to think of it in other terms, consider that perfect objectivity and perfect love are the same thing. You cannot love somebody unless you set yourself aside and become selfless in that moment. This should indicate to you that the ground of reality itself is Love, because nothing is more objective than reality itself.
>>538524822Oh well, you can now try the dragon tea pot whatever, please proceed.
>>538519260Atheism is not a claim. Atheism is an implicit state that arises when you don't believe in any specific god. Atheism is not claiming that god does not exist because such a statement cannot be made in general as god is not defined in general. You can only assert the non-existence of specific gods.
You'd think with multiple threads about this every day for years there would at least be some interesting argumentsScroll through and see kids having semantic arguments and shit. Fisher price my first argument
>>538524949I'm nta. You seen to think, that Gods dit down, write long lists of rules, and expect humans to participate in these games for prices.
>>538524581>kike kvetching and lyingNow read John 8:44 with a straight face and without breaking (your) schnozzDirty filthy lying rat You are related to Jesus like the average Bolivian is related to Caesar Go ahead and post your dna results, filthy kike gypsy mongrel I know you won't because you're a cowardly cockroach This is your last (you)Eat shit and get lost kike
>>538511696>Is this the best of what the religion of reason has to offer?The Religion of Reason pales in comparison to "Magick", the Religion of Science.
>>538525032Roll back a little bit and read John 4:22 out loud, shit skin nigger :)
>>538524285Infinite absolutely does mean all encompassing otherwise it's not infinite, but finite.
>>538525032Dial8 raped kike slave.
>>538525056Hmmm
>>538523272You're welcome to your personal feelings and opinions
I never quite understood the dragon teapot analogy. I think it would only be valid if the other person says that you have to believe something because it's not disprovable.But nobody says that so it's very confusing when they bring it up out of nowhere having me at a loss.So let me use that argument.I say: Something is true if it's not disprovable.Please some atheist, take it up.
>>538524895But you are a KIKE so that is no lieShow me where I lied and I will concede Otherwise, drag your ugly hooked schnozz through the dirt and walk away in shame like your ancestors always did when they disputed with Christians on theological matters, since Paris at the very least
>>538520097>If it can be perceived by the senses, then by default it cannot be divineSo Jesus wasn't divine?
>>538525490You are undeniably some flavor of shit skin.
>>538525613Simply go ask your priest... Oh... You don't even go to church! Hahahha.
>>538525662
>>538525613Literally posted DNA christ nigger. >>538525246
>>538525653His body wasn't. His soul was. You can't perceive a soul with your senses.
>>538524943>There are no abstractionsThis is so fundamentally wrong, but explains why you think the way you do.>Mind isn't just "an idea", it's a realityIs it always? Will you still exist when you no longer have the capacity to think?>The same way that truth, reason, morality, goodness, justice, compassion and so on are all realitiesThey're concepts, abstracted from our interpretations of our interactions with each other and the world around us. Reason no longer exists when all those capable of it have been snuffed out. Goodness is certainly relative. What's good for you isn't necessarily good for another and vice versa.>That's everyone's definition of GodMany apply a consciousness to it and even claim to know its motives and desires. The Bible is one such collection of books making such claims. However, I do agree that God as a anthropomorphism of reality itself is by far the strongest interpretation of God out there, as long as it's recognized it is just an anthropomorphism.>the fact that consciousness can't exist without a higher consciousnessI reject this outright. Consciousness is emergent from life, itself being emergent from chemistry, itself being emergent from matter and the forces that govern them, and so on. If all life is exterminated, there will be no consciousness remaining. If chemistry ceases to function (everything is too far apart or not enough energy for any more reactions), life will no longer function either.>You cannot love somebody unless you set yourself aside and become selfless in that momentWe see altruism play out even at the level of single-celled organisms, creatures you'd think incapable of such behaviors. Turns out that it's one of the most efficient ways to ensure one's own genome replicates, even if it means killing oneself to save the wider population.
>>538523849This is new age "dude God is just love, man" bullshit that falls apart immediately when you look at the claims of each religion. Buddhism claims even the highest of spiritual beings is stuck in samsara and any of them that claim to have created the universe are mistaken. In fact Buddhism believes the universe is eternal and so would not agree that a first cause exists. Meanwhile Christianity claims their God created everything. These are fundamentally incompatible.
>>538525792Flaggots aren't people. You. Will. Never. Be. Human. Shit skin nigger.
>>538525866So how do you know his soul was divine if you can't sense it?
>>538526032jews told him in the jewish authored user manual.
>>538521489Battle cry of the self-loathing, perma-raging leftist who traded developing the capacity to think for himself for embracing social media "enlightment" in hopes of getting laid, and finally realizing that it doesn't work that way.Now you got nothing. No women, no brain, no peace of mind. Next stop, touching bottom. Might as well post your plan here the day before you finally snap - it's your last hope for relevance.
>>538517524Kirk was a nigger loving jew worshipping faggot. Good riddance.
>>538525960>This is so fundamentally wrong, but explains why you think the way you do.No, it's fundamentally correct. The error here is yours, because you don't believe that truth is objective. This collapses your entire worldview and deprives you of any rational support whatsoever. If truth isn't objective, then by your own claims you aren't correct and nothing you've stated is true. In your worldview, everything I've said is just as correct as everything you've said. You cannot hold a position while also holding that a position's validity isn't determined by its relationship with truth, and nothing can have a relationship with truth if truth is not objective, or an informing principle. All of your other misunderstandings are downstream of this one, and it's why you refuse to accept basic logic. Your insistence on "emergent properties" for example, even though I've definitively proven to you beyond any possible doubt that there can be no such thing as a property that emerges from nothing.
>>538526223>embracing social media "enlightment" in hopes of getting laid, and finally realizing that it doesn't work that wayYou kidding me? Do you realize how easy it was to get laid in the early days of social media? You still constantly see christfags whining about how women are no longer trad and just want to fuck all the time. The early days of it were fuckin' wild, man.
>>538525985Buddhism claims that escaping from samsara is precisely what the Buddha did. That's only possible if truth is objective, which it is in the Buddhist view. Which means that wisdom is objective, enlightenment is objective, and the path out of samsara is already set in stone and simply needs to be followed. This means that reality itself stems from a singular principle, which is what Buddhists and Christians both believe. Buddhists do believe in a first cause, and they assert time and time again that the grounds of existence is compassion, which is the same as Love. You're just uninformed and don't know the first thing about Buddhism.
>>538526446>objective >supernatural jew shit israelI don't blame them for farming you at all.
>>538525236I don’t know what to tell you you’re just wrong
>>538526446>nothing can have a relationship with truth if truth is not objective,Argue this position in any way. The idea that relationships themselves as well as their anchor points cannot be relativistic is unsupportable. You don't usually do a lot of the whole backing things up, right? You're used to these internet arguments where you just say stuff and leave.I think you can't do it. I think you can't make an argument for what you said.
>>538526446>because you don't believe that truth is objectiveOur disagreement is clear evidence that it's not.>If truth isn't objective, then by your own claims you aren't correct and nothing you've stated is trueThat's circular reasoning. You can't just claim that truth is objective and that you're objectively right, otherwise truth holds no objectivity.Truth is context sensitive. One thing can be true at one point in time and untrue in another. It can be true in one place, but false elsewhere. Truth isn't absolute, even if it's usually a binary true/false.>Your insistence on "emergent properties" for example, even though I've definitively proven to you beyond any possible doubt that there can be no such thing as a property that emerges from nothingYou claim God emerges from nothing. This contradicts your entire line of reasoning.
>>538512183dont see any arguments tho
>>538526705I'm not, I know what I'm talking about.
>>538526776I always back up everything I say. Truth has to be objective in order for a proposition to be true, because if truth isn't objective then every claim is equally true, making all claims equally false. There has to be a constant, or a bedrock. It's actually your position that can't sustain an argument, because if you claim that truth is subjective then you're claiming that your own claim is not necessarily true.
>>538526943No you don’t lol. You’re saying a number cannot be infinitely big, because to be infinite it must also encompass the concept of “green” for example.And then you’re also hitting the point where God is just everything so the term becomes meaningless
>>538527099Pseudoodoo
>>538511696>How the fuck did so many people fall for this?epstein financed it, that's why
>>538525236This is false. You can have infinities that aren't all encompassing. You can have an infinite strings of 2 that will never have a 9. You can have a line that infinitely approaches 2 without ever reaching it. You can have infinite universes where you don't live past 200 in a single one. Not all infinities are created equal.
>>538526826Truth is absolute. If you can't even see that, then there's not much anyone can do to help you understand. You're essentially claiming that logic is subjective, which makes every single position you hold about everything inherently wrong, because it's an admission that you weren't using logic.>You claim God emerges from nothingNo, that isn't my claim in the slightest. My claim is that God never emerged, was never created, and was never made. My claim is that there was never a point in time in which God did not exist, because God is the cause of time and is thus necessarily fully outside of time. The cause of time cannot be within time, meaning God is the eternal. The same cannot be said of your "universe", because your universe exists within time and thus can't be the cause of time.
>>538526624Please tell me how escaping samsara and going to heaven in Christianity are the same. You're arguing a bunch of other unrelated bullshit to obfuscate from the fact that the ideas are incompatible. Making your claim that all religions line up with each other false. Again, maybe that's true if you only look at surface level things. It makes sense that religions, being invented by man, would largely include similar virtues and things to make people behave appropriately in a society, though I'm sure you could find many differences there. Also what is the first cause Buddhism exerts, anon?
>>538511696>"mild pedophilia"in the west we throw 18 year old men in the prison sex offender registry for fucking a 16 year old, a 16 year old that can produce healthy children btwmeanwhile we have a massive suprlus of barren 30 year old cat ladies while mahmud and ngubu have 12 children with their wife they married at 14
>>538527099>, because if truth isn't objective then every claim is equally true, making all claims equally false.That's patently absurd. You failed one of the most basic corrolaries of logic. According to you, if truth is not absolute, all things are equally true. This is a logical fabrication that does not follow the original argument, and it assumes a position not taken by the original arguer.You lost. You aren't capable of doing this.
>>538527116>>538527262You're both incorrect. The proper definition of infinite is "that which nothing can be added to". If something can be added, then the thing which you've just added to was not infinite, but was finite, owing to the fact that it was incomplete and not whole. Whatever is truly and perfectly whole cannot suffer an addition. You cannot add to the infinite, because infinite already entails all that exists.
>>538526032Notice how he couldn't answer that? Lol
>>538527262You're confusing infinity with irrationality, completely different concepts. You don't have the understanding of math to talk about this.
>>538527286>Truth is absoluteAnd unfaithful
>>538527286>Truth is absoluteIt's not and never will be>You're essentially claiming that logic is subjectiveLogic requires a medium. Without something to calculate that logic, it ceases to be. This very fact prevents it from ever not being subjective, even if we can find sturdy ground of commonality to agree on things.> My claim is that God never emerged, was never created, and was never madeIf God never emerged, was never created, and was never made, then that means, by definition, it emerged from nothing, was created by nothing, and was made by nothing. You are arguing yourself into a hole.
>>538527375You can't distinguish between true and false unless you believe that truth is objective and absolute. If you disagree with what I've just said then you're throwing all reason, all philosophy, all logic, and all argumentation out the window in favor of your own personal emotions. Your views aren't coherent.
>>538527341>Also what is the first cause Buddhism exerts, anonDiscernable properties existing. The 12 links of dependant origination
>>538527529>You can't distinguish between true and false unless you believe that truth is objective and absolute.And your personal feelings about "God" are none of those
