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>>538555315
which is... what?

>>538555315
His flaw is in describing the economy as a closed thermodynamic system when it's an open system constantly bringing in more resources and ideas and the definition of life is in its ability to dissipate entropy and human society is a eusocial colony of active agents and modern workers own the economy through their 401k plans

>>538555315
No. All his propositions turned out like shit as well, so ultimately it's irrelevant.

>>538555735
Look around you.

>>538555735
holy shit is he the retard responsibile for "no infinite growth with finite resources" bullshit?

Nobody disagrees that there are flaws in capitalism, thats not some sophisticated thing to point out. The truth nuke is that you are not special in any way, and the only reason you gravitate towards Marxist ideas instead of capitalism is because capitailsm as a system is designed to naturally put an inferior loser like yourself as lesser than others who got degrees and jobs, which is unironically what inspired Karl Marx's hatred for capitalism was.

>>538555315
>marx definition of capitalism: anything that isn't communism
>marx definition of communism: everything that serves marx, personally
Why would I need to argue the strawman of a known fraud? It should be deeply concerning that there are still so many idiots out there that fall for a failed scam 150 years after it has been exposed.

>>538556805
The fact that you think degrees and jobs are desirable and a sign of intellect is telling. Why should I need to spend all day making money just to survive while the dude I make 10x more money for was born into generational wealth? Sounds like being a cuck

His ideology was naive. Humans are selfish by nature they will always want more if they can. Every human is greedy by nature.

>>538556988
You’re confusing marxist teachings with those of later communists who claimed to represent Marx. The next true revolution will come as a technological necessity, it won’t be forced on the people like the communism of the 20th century

>>538555315
Red herring. The salient aspect of communism/marxism/lennenism is the dissolving of national borders and dispossession of the goyim of their property. It's talmudism encoded into a supposed economic/political system. Marx was the grandson of a rabbi, and communism is part of rabbinic jewish eschatology. It was never meant to seriously work to benefit populations. Anyone who promotes it, announces themself, concurrently, as a useful idiot for the jews.

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>>538555315

>>538555315
Hitler was right go to b cannibal

>>538557126
>>538556988
you are making the same moral point

class consciousness is really just another name for empathy and solidarity and the refusal of explopitation.

>>538555315
No his critique is good its just that his solutions couldn't be much worse even if you tried

>>538557142
Open borders, dissolution of society as we know it, etc. are the desires of retards who’ve read Marx and go an entirely different way because they’re resentful losers. True Marxism is anti-immigration and in favour of retaining the harmony of society. Regardless, you are addressing issues in the solution communists have proposed over time, but you can’t actually disprove Marx’s diagnosis of capitalisms ills.

>>538556936
the irony is not only are you lazy in spirit but your excuses are lazy as well, not everyone whos successful was born into generational wealth, waah poor me i have to work for a living... and yes, degrees and jobs are a measure of intelligence what are you fucking retarded?

>>538557170
Uhhh yeah, Marx was a based race realist and would post on 4chan today if he was alive. Modern communists are retards and faggots who are attracted to his ideology due to an inferiority complex and a profound misunderstanding of what he actually preached. There’s a reason Marx spent the back half of his life ruthlessly making fun of the retards who appropriated his writings

>>538555735
>modern workers own the economy through their 401k plans
The bottom 90% of Americans only own 13% of the stock market.

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>>538556936
>Why should I need to spend all day making money just to survive
What do you do for work and how many hours did you work yesterday?
>The next true revolution will come as a technological necessity
How many more weeks until that happens?
>because they’re resentful losers.
As opposed to you, I imagine.
>Marx’s diagnosis of capitalisms ills.
Which are?

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>>538557358
>The bottom 90% of Americans only own 13% of the stock market.
What do you do for work and who do you suppose is preventing you from investing in stocks?

>>538557337
If not wanting to slave away in a factory for sheckleberg makes me lazy then so be it. Work isn’t the issue, modern wage labour by COERCION is. I hunt and fish regularly and am very capable of living off the land, but if I try and do so on land no one is using it is illegal and I will go to jail. As such I am coerced into working during my prime years and making a richer man more money.

You are a cuck for your master. People aren’t lazy, they just don’t want to play a rigged game or devote their lives to buying a shitbox suburb house they could build in the woods in a week if they were actually free

Imagine being so unread, that you never read anyone who btfo of Marx

Both capital and work are factors of production. Surplus calculation ignores the capital contribution to company benefits. So it seems the enterpreuner obtained surplus from workers, when actually he put capital at risk.

Also, his description of capitalism is that of the XIX century. He did not know many later changes in capitalism: separation between ownership and control, isolation of risks, stocks and democratic control of companies, etc.

>>538557469
>What do you do for work and who do you suppose is preventing you from investing in stocks?
I am a NEET annd landlord. I contribute $20K per year to my 529A account.
Less than 10% of American workers invest that much into qualified retirement accounts annually.

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>>538555315
so, first of all
you've not presented a list of bulletpoints that marx actually makes
i've asked GPT (a private corporation), to compile one, so if you don't like that list, provide a more accurate one

>alienation: workers become disconnected from the products they make
okay, sounds like they should start their own business, and feel connected to the products they make
>class conflict: the interests of the owners and of the worker are not aligned
sure they are, if the workers are miserable, they'll go work for a different corporation, and the owners will go broke
>concentration of wealth: a few people end up owning a lot
that means they were providing the best conditions for workers / consumers
>competition and overproduction are bad
even if true, we've seen that government/communal ran economies are worse
>aspects of life are bought and sold
exchanging money means that you acknowledge the thing has value
>profit over need
again, if people didn't need it, it wouldn't be profitable
>inequality
there is not equality in nature to begin with. some are smarter, some are stronger, some are better looking. in fact, even the you from 10 years ago isn't equal to you today

>>538556936
this seems to be the one that's bothering you
>exploitation of labor: workers produce more value than they receive in waves
this is simply not true
if it were, you could quit your job, and make 100% of "your worth"
>"but i don't own the means of production"
i hear you saying
and yes, that's true
you didn't invent them. you didn't build them. and you're not managing them.
in other words, you don't deserve the means of production
>"but neither does my boss"
i hear you saying
and that might be true. so go to an investor, and ask him to loan you money so you can acquire and use the means of production for yourself. then, go ahead and be profitable, return the loan, and "earn 100% of your worth" happily ever after

>>538557397
> What do you do for work and how many hours did you work yesterday?
Unemployed and 0. Currently living off of savings from my construction job I quit last year plus gambling.
>How many more weeks until that (revolution) happens?
Probably not in our lifetimes though one can hope

>>538557126
It doesn't matter, whatever the utopia looks like it will fail to bring the fulfilment people are looking for, they'll revolt on that revolution as well.

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>>538557511
>slave away in a factory
Who is enslaving you and what sort of factory are you forced to work in?
>am very capable of living off the land
Post pics with timestamp of all the food you have put by to hold you over this winter.
>if I try and do so on land no one is using it is illegal and I will go to jail.
Plenty of unimproved land in your country for $500 an acre. Why not just buy a piece and go live your best life as a hunter-gatherer if that's what you want?
>I am coerced into working
Who is forcing you to work and what sort of work are they forcing you to do?
>house they could build in the woods in a week
Post pics of some of the houses you've built in the woods in a week.

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>>538557126
>real communism has never been tried before
so try it then

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>>538555315
Marx was actually an artisanist and a libertarian who wanted fascist industrialism beaten back so that those who wanted a return to individualism could have it

If this sounds completely unfamiliar and even false then, congratulations, you are one of the billions who's been lied to all your life about who Karl Marx really was and what he really wanted

And so where did the ultra-fascism and dehumanization of communism actually come from? Try his silent "partner" Friedrich Engels, who was the spoiled rich boy son of a power-mad, authoritarian pig father who was a massive sweat-shop industrialism

Freddy Engels is who really created what the whole world now knows as "communism" because he and his endlessly rotten industrialist pig father wanted a fake moral system that would serve as a sneaky vehicle for transforming human beings into totally domineered and dehumanized cattle

And so what we've been calling "Marxism" all this time, it really wasn't ever actually Marxism -- it was Engels-ism. But because that word doesn't roll of the tongue as nicely as "Marxism", it just got called "Marxism"

And now you know

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>>538557269
if everyone on the planet is a marxist, who are the boarders protecting you from

>>538555315
Yes, capitalism for all of its flaws actually works and isn’t some retarded pipe dream created by some bitter kike.

>>538557269
Direct Marx quote
>The combination of different nations in one State is as necessary a condition of civilized life as the combination of men in society. Where political and national boundaries coincide, society ceases to advance

>>538555315
His theory rests upon the presumption that product's worth is dependant on labour which is demonsrtratably not true. Just because you spend a whole week building a sneaker doesn't mean someone will shell out 40×20=800 goosebucks plus material costs for a shoe.

His whole explanation of why workers are owed that money rests upon the falsifieble pricing theory. Prices aren't directly proportional to labour input. In fact, it's nor even part of the equation. Products can be worth 0 with tens of hours of labour input.

>>538557755
There is nothing to try at the moment. Capitalism will run its course naturally just like feudalism and early slavery before it did. It’s simply a matter of waiting for technological conditions to evolve to that point.

The communists of the 20th century who tried to brute force it were over their heads

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>>538555315
He was a turbo kike

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>>538557348
so how come marxism only attracts retards then?

>>538555315
He’s leftist word salad.. technically basic like a downie, but word salad like nigger with a sociology degree

>>538557795
Actually the modern neoliberal capitalist world order was created by a combination of largely jewish people from the Frankfurt School, communism and capitalism are two sides of the same coin. There would have never been jewish international finance without capitalism

>>538557815
Clearly he’s referring to Europeans and not blacks, Arabs, etc. Read some of his quotes about minorities and the civilizations which hadn’t yet even progressed to capitalism, it’s pretty much genocidal rhetoric

>>538557836
Capitalism is a Marxist term. People have been exchanging goods forever.

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>>538557511
>if I try and do so on land no one is using
how would you feel if a bunch of people showed up and also wanted to live off the same land
tens, hundreds, thousands of people
surely the land couldn't sustain all of you
and at some point you'll have to start deciding who gets to stay and who has to go
why are you so sure they wouldn't kick you out
and when all land on the planet is taken by marxists, where will you do your fishing and hunting

>>538555315
The fat retard thinks anarchy will spontaneously bubble forth from authoritarian socialism. He's not a person to be taken seriously.

>>538557867
It’s a reverse bell curve. Marxism attracts both the dumbest and most genius of society. Hence why most noble prize winners are Marxist and most college nose ring polyamorous retards are also Marxists. They are Marxist for different reasons

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>>538557836
>it's destiny, trust the plan
so why are you bothered then
just live your life, and then one day, it'll just be communism everywhere

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>>538557711
>I am a NEET annd landlord
So mom pays you rent to live with her?
>Less than 10% of American workers invest that much into qualified retirement accounts annually.
Nothing apart from low IQ, low impulse control, and low future time preference is stopping most people from investing more, and literally nothing is stopping you or anybody else from creating their own company and owning as much equity in that as they can hold.
>>538557732
>Unemployed
Every single time.
So tell us, comrade, if the workers seize the means of production how do you reckon you'll come out on top if you don't work or produce anything?

>>538558030
Uhh.. yeah? It seems you get it. This is exactly what the true believers of Marx are doing. The people “organizing” and running campus Revolution stalls are just jumping the gun because they don’t understand how the world works. Marx criticized these types endlessly

>>538557927
The logic of Marx is universal. Since Marx believed the state itself is an instrument of class oppression, all states and logically all borders would eventually have to disappear in a fully communist society. Dont read Marx quotes online read his manifesto if you want to know what he and Engels thought. Marx ultimate theoretical goal was a world without any states

>>538557705
You didn't read it, did you?
It was all in the Capital, which is mostly economic book, not political. Also none of this changes the outcome - the poor get poorer, the rich get richer. Capital tends to snowball and free market always leads to monopoly, which isn't even debated.

>>538555616
>from eastern Europe
>hasn't read marx
So, do you just walk around not knowing what the fuck happened before 1991? That's just an historical void?

>>538558091
I don’t think the workers should seize any “means of production” anytime soon, we live in a service economy anyway lmao, 90% of the means of production are in third world shitholes. You’re arguing against a straw man of what you think a Marxist is due to the influence of the most retarded and dysgenic of communists. Our system will simply evolve over time as technology changes, probably not even in our lifetime. I’m perfectly content with the world as it is, I just see a future where it could be better

>>538557397
im a licensed therapist studying BPD and Antisocial personality disorder, ontop of that im white as snow. Learn to take accountability in your life.

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>>538557903
>There would have never been jewish international finance without capitalism
The first recorded instances of kings borrowing money pre-date the first stock certificate by nearly 4000 years.
But I'll bite, what do you do for work now and what will your role be after we seize the means of production or whatever your idea of utopia comes to pass?

>>538558253
lol its so fucking true

>>538555315
Marx was a jew whose real name was mordecai Levy. Do you think that the writings of all jews deserve to be analyzed and debunked at depth?

>>538558231
>free market always leads to monopoly
How?
By making laws that one company can use against smaller ones.
Which in result is not a free market but controlled one.

>>538555315

Value added is simply a different expression of risk. Look for stockkeeping in Marx's works and you won't find it. He simply assumes total information, which is idiotic. Uncertainty about the future is an essential component of every economic system. Not accounting for this is unforgivable and leads to the exact consequences you can observe in socialist systems.

>>538555315
He's Jewish.

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>>538558253
I see, so once someone invents the infinite free shit machine, nobody will have to work anymore.
Now let's get back to your original premise that you're being forced to work but you're actually unemployed right now. Who do you feel is exploiting you and how do you suppose your life will improve once you get real communism?

>>538555315
Yes, the subjective theory of value has proven itself correct and thus proven the labor theory of value wrong. And since Marx's idea of class struggle is derived from the labor theory of value, that is wrong too.

>>538555315
He has a lot of good points especially for his time, it was grim back then and nations were still ethnostates

>>538557927
Why do you trust jews? Why do you take what jews say at face value?

>>538555315
>product cost is defined by hours worker spend building it regardless usefulness of the product

>>538555315
If a theory has no predictive power it's bunk. So no need to refute it.

>>538558406
My life’s actually pretty good, again you’re just attacking a strawman because you’re too low iq to engage with the subject matter. “Real communism” is a meme, technology will simply develop to make wage labor obsolete and it probably won’t happen in our lifetime.

You sound like a feudal peasant criticizing your fellow man who would rather not till the fields all day for no reward

>>538555735
If you say so. Meanwhole IRL billionaires becoming trillionaires and no one being able to afford to own a home anymore seems to be directly related phenomenon

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>>538558235
we were only under communism for ~70 years
meanwhile, we were under ottoman caliphate rule for ~700 years
am i supposed to read about the muzzies 10 times more than i read about the commies?
not to mention our nation was founded in ~681
so am i supposed to be an expert on horse riding nomads and internal byzantine politics also?

no thanks, my fellow american
i'd rather re-read the bible and the kino no tabi novels, as i track what's the latest news on space exploration

>>538557126
>muh true communism
Holy fucking shit just get in the work camp.

>>538558283
There was no free market back then, capitalism is not about borrowing money its about creating conditions for merchants to be able to operate more freely between countries hence why jews love capitalism, this is also why we have international finance, also since the earliest known societies the charging of interest was viewed with suspicion and frequently restricted. Plato and Aristotle, arguably the founders of western philosophy were pretty clear that money was "sterile" and should not beget more money
>But I'll bite, what do you do for work now and what will your role be after we seize the means of production
Exactly the same as now and also I dont believe in any utopia because humans are flawed creatures in a lot of ways, we go through cycles and aren't going towards some type of inevitable utopian end point like retard communists believe

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>>538557984
>and most genius of society
I contest this. I think it attracts the most narcissistic and sociopathic of society. The success of theses "people" filters for high verbal IQ, manipulation and empathetic modeling. (they don't actually have empathy. They can just emulate and predict it.) Much like the kikes that spawned them they are filtering up "high functioning" spiritual and psychological niggers

>>538557815
This makes perfect sense. Take Germany for instance that used to be a bunch of principalities each charging each other tarriffs that was going nowhere economically.

Only after combining into one big state that wouldn't tarriff each other but outsiders Instead like the british did yhe german economy really take off.

Obviously he didnt mean a bunch of retarded niggers like you

>>538558522
>it probably won’t happen in our lifetime.
You're obviously not keeping up with ai

>>538558522
>technology will simply develop to make wage labor obsolete and it probably won’t happen in our lifetime.
It probably will actually. I really think AGI is only a couple of decades away. But the result will not be what you think. Without people needing to produce anything, states will become extremely authoritarian and will strictly control things like movement and reproduction.

>>538558669
> I think it attracts the most narcissistic and sociopathic of society. The success of theses "people" filters for high verbal IQ, manipulation and empathetic modeling. (they don't actually have empath
You say this as though it’s a bad thing. Of course the majority people willing to think outside the cattle system are those who have a natural predilection towards antisocial behaviour. Here’s a hint, the people who benefit most from capitalism also share these same traits.

The system would love nothing more than a population of happy go lucky field niggers who’d question nothing and spend all day singing songs and picking cotton

>>538558770
This is just your christcuck doomsday domestication talking, you're a moral masochist

>>538558696
>Obviously he didnt mean a bunch of retarded niggers like you
Unfortunately he did, according to Marx every state and all borders would eventually wither away as society transformed into his utopian vision

>>538555315
>Im going to make up a word and use my own interpretations for describing my new word
>refute the thing that can only exist in my mind
K
;*

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>>538555315
it's not the critique of capitalism that is the issue with Marx, that is pretty empirical and valid for his time, its his naive and childish view that workers can seize the means of production and keep production going, when in reality it just stops cold, competence is rare among humans

>>538558342
>How?
By driving competition out the market? Buying it up or price cutting. Again this is widely accepted fact and every country has anti monopoly government agency. It is simply not a market with bo competition and you can charge whatever money you want.

>>538555315
Himself a Jew, Marx has around him, in London and France, but especially in Germany, a multitude of more or less clever, intriguing, mobile, speculating Jews, such as Jews are every where: commercial or banking agents, writers, politicians, correspondents for newspapers of all shades, with one foot in the bank, the other in the socialist movement, and with their behinds sitting on the German daily press — they have taken possession of all the newspapers — and you can imagine what kind of sickening literature they produce. Now, this entire Jewish world, which forms a single profiteering sect, a people of blooksuckers, a single gluttonnous parasite, closely and intimately united not only across national borders but across all differences of political opinion — this Jewish world today stands for the most part at the disposal of Marx and at the same time at the disposal of Rothschild. I am certain that Rothschild for his part greatly values the merits of Marx, and that Marx for his part feels instinctive attraction and great respect for Rothschild.

This may seem strange. What can there be in common between Communism and the large banks? Oh! The Communism of Marx seeks enormous centralization in the state, and where such exists, there must inevitably be a central state bank, and where such a bank exists, the parasitic Jewish nation, which. speculates on the work of the people, will always find a way to prevail

>>538556805
>Nobody disagrees that there are flaws in capitalism, thats not some sophisticated thing to point out. The truth nuke is that you are not special in any way, and the only reason you gravitate towards Marxist ideas instead of capitalism is because capitailsm as a system is designed to naturally put an inferior loser like yourself as lesser than others who got degrees and jobs, which is unironically what inspired Karl Marx's hatred for capitalism was.
yes, cf Nietzsche's ressentiment of the proles

>>538558857
If you can paint a more optimistic picture I'd love to see it.

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>>538558888
I guarantee that girl can't tell you a single thing about anyone of those communists on the front. She just thinks that gommunism is is free shit and equality.
She is too soft and weak to actually survive in the USSR during war time.

>>538558910
>It is simply not a market with bo competition and you can charge whatever money you want
Even with no competition you are subject to supply and demand.

>>538558091
it is hilarious to hear libs talk about 'the working class', when so few know what real work is
we really need new terms for the present class structure, like
Epstein class
Billionaire class
NEET class
working (actually working) class
idle wealthy class
retired class
homeless class
untermenschen class

>>538558540
The inflation of the money supply 2020-2022 was a direct result of the Paycheck Protection 'Loans' and the obscene, infinite unemployment checks, plus the thousands of dollars per person given out by Trump and Biden. There's nothing comparable in world economic history. That's what socialism does. That's the dreamt of monthly stipend where we can all neet. It's a complete fantasy and has nothing to do with the tenets of capitalism. It was a disgrace. Ceasing economic activity and blowing out the money supply. That's why everything is so expensive, especially housing. It's amazing how no one seems to relate the increase in money supply with increases in prices. It's only a byproduct of bad monetary policy that billionaires seem to get more wealthy. A $100k salary was excellent money only 6.5 years ago. Now it's nothing special.

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>>538558770
>I really think AGI is only a couple of decades away
Why would you think that though? There is no evidence at all that we know how to get there and why would states be able to control a self improving machine, if AGI is ever created its not like any government can just control it because it will become a superintelligence, smarter than collective humanity in all domains

He’s my favourite abo

>>538557348
Read On the Jewish Question and realise that he was also very much J-pilled as well, as pretty much everyone was back then. His critique of the Jews is actually very interesting and oft ignored. He argued that the Christian world had effectively become Judaised under capitalism, that "huckstering" (aka rent seeking and other forms of financial parasitism) was the "worldly religion" of the Jew that had spread to and infected the Christian ruling class of the West.

>>538558831
>The system would love nothing more than a population of happy go lucky field niggers who’d question nothing and spend all day singing songs and picking cotton

Sounds like wagies making tiktok videos and doing blm chants desu.

>>538558091
>So mom pays you rent to live with her?
No, I bought a house, lived in it for a while, then moved back with my parents. Some strangers pay me rent. My parents pay me nothing except meals and love.
>Nothing apart from low IQ, low impulse control, and low future time preference is stopping most people from investing more, and literally nothing is stopping you or anybody else from creating their own company and owning as much equity in that as they can hold.
Being that half of Americans are struggling to afford groceries and cannot bear a $1K emergency…WRONG.
Btw, are you implying that I’m a communist?

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updated class list
just missing the
working but in useless jobs class aka HR Karens

>>538555315
Capitalism is really really good at making rich people even richer.

>>538558935
Icbf really because it would imvolve explaining how jews organize laterally and how they will be forced to give people money as they need their participation in the economy etc. Why do you think trump and biden gave you stimulus checks?

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how about a class for those involved in propagandizing the proles in service to the oligarchs and plutocracy, it seems they are an essential class in western capitalist society

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>>538558522
>My life’s actually pretty good
Nigger, you're unemployed, unemployable, own nothing, and are on 4chan bitching about how you are being enslaved in a factory or whatever retarded LARP.
>You sound like a feudal peasant
I'm going to be getting a tour of a modern high tech chemical factory this morning to see their chemical savety/handling procedure and discuss their emergency response plans. Once I get done with that, I'll probably come home to my comfy house on 10 acres, have some lunch, take a little nap, then do some work on a $20,000 sound system build I'm doing in one of my vehicles. But yeah, otherwise, I'm just like a peasant hoping I put by enough wheat with this year's harvest to not starve to death, and hope to have 20 cord of wood laid down and seasoning so can not freeze to death and have wash water next year.
>till the fields all day
Nigger, you're unemployed daydreaming about being a hunter-gatherer.
>no one being able to afford to own a home anymore
What do you do for work? Every adult I know who has a job can afford to own a home, are you sure it's Elon Musk's fault that you're not a home owner?
>>538558639
You claimed there would not be international finance without capitalism. This claim can be disproven with a google search. My ability to own my own company or sell a percentage of it doesn't enter into kings or governments borrowing money.
>>538558831
>the cattle system
Says the unemployed and unemployable bum who will be content with some hay and a barn that communism offers him.

>>538560093
> I'm going to be getting a tour of a modern high tech chemical factory this morning to see their chemical savety/handling procedure and discuss their emergency response plans
The slave is proud of the role master has given him LMAO. Keep on slaving away while the Arab prince whose dad owns your company is shitting on some Russian prositutes chest in Dubai.

But hey, you should be proud of yourself. More toxic chemicals will be refined and sheckleberg will get richer, all you had to do was be brainwashed into wasting your whole life for another man. LOL

>>538560093
>If you don't work for the jews and pay taxes to jews so they can replace you with brown people, you are a nigger

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>>538559586
>half of Americans are struggling to afford groceries
The "poor" people in this country weigh more than top division sumo wrestlers. Nobody is struggling to feed themselves here and not being able to hold $1000 isn't an economic issue, it's a being a nigger with money issue.
>>538559762
>Capitalism is really really good at making rich people even richer.
So you believe only rich people are allowed to invest or start a business?
>>538559721
Who is "HR Karen"?

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>>538555315
>Can anyone here actually refute Marx’s critique of capitalism?
marxists are resentful losers who want to take my stuff because they lost the game of life
they get pic related instead

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>>538560446
>i don't really understand labor theory of value

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>>538560333
>slave
Sour grapes much?
>the Arab prince whose dad owns your company
I thought Shekelberg was the one enslaving everybody?
>REEEE but someone else has more money than you do!!!!
Wow, I really don't care.
>>538560343
>I'm not a lazy bum, I'm fighting the jews.
Good luck with that. I'm sure mommy is very proud of you.
I'm going to go have a shower and get ready to head out. You guys enjoy your day feeling sorry for yourselves and doomscrolling social media. If anything really interesting happens here you all can fill me in tomorrow.

>>538555315
The problem is jews not the class.

>>538555315
I tried reading Das Kapital once. There were like 5 non sequiturs in the first 15 pages so I gave up. He builds everything he says on a bunch of assumptions that are blatantly wrong and assumes the reader is too stupid to question them.

>>538560093
Yeah there wouldn't, not in the way there is today, if it could be proven with a google search I'm sure you would attempt to bring up the evidence to prop up your point, the rest of your sentence I dont even understand how its relevant so I'll leave it at that

>>538560369
>Nobody is struggling to feed themselves here
This - We have been conditioned from birth that we need 3 meals a day plus snacks 2 times between each meal and before bed time.

You can go 3 weeks without food, and most need to go a month.

>>538555315
The problem is not in his critique. The problem is that he offers no concrete, step-by-step process for how his proposed non-capitalist society is to be achieved without mass corruption, suffering and death. Nor has anyone who took inspiration from his work. If you don't get that by now, you're either a fool or a tyrant.

>>538560628
except all the high class non jews gladly selling their goyim brothers out for pennies(in the grand scheme) to maintain their high class

>>538560612
> I'm going to go have a shower and get ready to head out.
Tick tock wagie. Your boss needs you to be there bright and early to make him some money.

>>538557867
atheist, agnostic, and jew 'vote blue no matter who' yep retards. Progressive npcs who even drive blacks to the voting booth and instruct them how to vote for the latest social engineering they themselves were told to support. They bribe blacks and mexicans with gibs to get them to vote for faggotry

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>>538555315
Capitalism and communism are 2 sides of the same Shekel. Everything worked better before this false dichotomy was presented to the goyim. Obviously no society functions well with massive inequality nor with perfect equality.

>>538557903
>Actually the modern neoliberal capitalist world order was created by a combination
The lie get more absurd by the moment and they only make me want to have a rail spike driven through your head more and more.
>largely jewish people from the Frankfurt School
The Frankfurt kikes were pushing cultural marxism, which has little to do with economics.
>communism and capitalism are two sides of the same coin
They’re not, if they were you would not be so keen to see capitalism eradicated in favor of your entropic dogshit.
>There would have never been jewish international finance without capitalism
It existed prior to capitalism since kikes were involved in banking for centuries.

>>538556671
There can be no infinite growth because thats a retarded concept. All things begin and end

>>538558156
We had that sort of dissolution of states and borders after Alexander wrecked the city state model, yet people kept reorganising into Koina (commons) based on various attributes such as racial, religious or professional, they were searching for meaning amidst the dissilusionment pretty much, how does Marxism address that need for meaning, direction and need for belonging and not plunge into nihililism?

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>>538555315

>>538555315
Not entirely

But you can easily refute his solutions which are outdated by several solutions, the USSR collapsing was the end of Marx’s solutions because modern “communist” countries are pro-business

>>538555315
His critique? No. His solution? Absolutely lmao.
It's hard to argue with his critique and I think that's the baby that gets thrown out with the bath water. He's right about a lot of things, like alienation for example. In an industrialized world, the worker is alienated from the product of his labour. A furniture maker turns into a line assembly worker, every piece is mechanically exact, he is no longer a craftsmen, he no longer puts himself into his work. Of course this is unfortunate.
His solution is retarded though. National Socialism is a far better solution because it doesn't pretend that a person cannot own things, it doesn't deny hierarchy, it doesn't deny capital. It subordinates capital to the Volk and forces the economy to serve the people, rather than the people serving the economy. If the proletariat were capable of forming a dictatorship then the proletarian would already be in a position of power. They lack the capacity to understand the nature of Statecraft or governance.
Marx needs everything to be an accident. Nothing is destiny. Nothing is hereditary. Nothing can be a consequence, everything is an affliction of oppression. This is delusional. You cannot fix society by pretending that humans are equal and the only thing that creates stratification is some evil conspiracy to suppress the working class.
Ask any blue collar person to describe the process of politics. They have no idea. Ask them what their solutions are, and they will be self-serving and full of errors that would, if allowed to, compound across a matrix of self-serving individuals until the death of civilization.
The lower classes must be ruled by those who are born for the purpose of rulership

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>>538560971
Allright buddy, take a deep breath and calm down, open the medicine cabinet and do the needful if you are having homicidal thoughts from writings on your screen
>The Frankfurt kikes were pushing cultural marxism, which has little to do with economics.
Fair enough, thats mostly true
>They’re not, if they were you would not be so keen to see capitalism eradicated in favor of your entropic dogshit.
Yes they are, both seek to remove all borders and states but for different reasons, both are ideas that are primarily focused on economics so they are materialist ideologies. Capitalists and communists are enemies of nationalists because to them numbers are more important than human beings
>It existed prior to capitalism since kikes were involved in banking for centuries.
I dont think so, the rise of powerful jewish international banking families correlates very well with early finance capitalism

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>>538560814
>Your boss needs you to be there bright and early to make him some money.
Wow, you're telling me the county is some big fat guy in a top hat with a giant vault full of money bags, who is just out shopping for a new mega-yacht while I'm slaving away with all the county fire chiefs and first responders? That's pretty fucked up.

>>538561083
Thats a great question for commies, I would argue they dont have a solution for that, they just hand wave it away as bourgoise. Marxism is a materialist ideology, it doesn't address anything about meaning, probably because Marx and Engels were autistic antisocial fart sniffers who provided endless critique but zero good solutions

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any class structure must of course include the criminal class and the sole proprietor shopkeeper class

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lots of proles seething with ressentiment itt

>>538561610
>buddy, take a deep breath and calm down
As hominem. You’re trying to present me as being irrational or unreasonable because you can’t argue what I am saying. This is why marxists like you need to be hanged, you show that discourse is pointless because you will always act dishonestly. And since talk has failed and you have shown you will continue to push your nonsense ultimately all that remains is force.
>Yes they are, both seek to remove all borders and states
Capitalism doesn’t strive to do that, there is nothing in capitalism theory which says anything about stateless borderless societies. It’s a fucking economic model, not a governmental or philosophical theory. Again all you can do is lie, what is the point here? To try and sell marxism by saying it’s similar to capitalism? Because if it was again you wouldn’t be doing this or be so against capitalism.
>I dont think so
Kike bankers and merchants have existed for centuries. This is not something that capitalism created, it’s not a product of capitalism but rather a failing over various countries to eradicate the problem and just keep pushing the diaspora elsewhere.
>the rise of powerful jewish international banking families correlates
Again it doesn’t, and I know what you’re trying to do, you’re trying to say that capitalism is nothing but kike shit because I pointed out that marxism is kike shit. This entire line of argumentation is one big “no u” why do you faggots always act like such fucking toddlers? Is the prerequisite for being a marxist arrested development?

>>538558235
Anon, the anon questions stands. Which I can think of which critic. the 1848 Marx or the 1867 Marx. The Marx in Luxemburite or Leninist interpretation, or the Maoist interpretation of the capitalism critic. What do you want us to critic, specificaly because I have my doubts people want to write you a 300+ pages essey here.

To me his most retarded public take on capitalism was his supposed historical view that it is just a phase in humanities development and that it would be replaced by communism, with 100% probability and that somehow, communism would not be replaced by anything as it is the top of humanities development.

Close second was his theories being devoided of human aspect of systems, society etc. Especialy when he writes about communism.

On a personal level his most ass take about capitalism, was the one about the one about commodity fetishism . Marx claimed that social relations between people appear as relations between things. Money and commodities seem to have magical power. Everything (nature, culture, human relations) becomes subordinated to the market. Which is both wrong (wealthy people can and do grow beyond the care of only comodities) and is double an ass take, when you realise he claimed that in communism this would not be a thing. And I lived under communism 1979-89, and there is no more comodity focused society then a communism one. a Plastic bag is a thing you want. toilet paper was a treasure.

so what marx take about capitalism do you want to have criticed?

>>538555315
No, but we can critique his solutions.

>>538562199
> toilet paper was a treasure.
public utilitise and schools got priority when deliveries came so I stole three rolls from the school toilet and brought them home
mom gave me the wet rag but then we used the toilet paper anyway

>>538555315
Why not just criticize human life and say all humans should just die?

>>538560955
No communist state has ever had perfect equality. Even in the USSR, the lowliest street sweeper earned 10 times less than the highest ranking party beaurocrats. The question is, do you want to live in a world where the lowest rung on the ladder is guaranteed a productive job, a home and a mere 10:1 difference in income between them and the wealthiest people in the country, or do you want to live in a world where Jewish trillionaires rape children and import hordes of cheap migrant slaves to drive inequality even higher than the astronomical levels we're already experiencing?

>>538562887
i shouldnt die im great dont project your dicksucking

>>538558235
>what the fuck happened before 1991
we had a foreign backed revolution led overwhelmingly by jews?
had a brutal secret service kidnapping, torturing and disappearing people that was staffed overwhelmingly by jews?
farmers and small business owners had their property stolen from them?
had a revolution that was brutally beaten down by a foreign power while the west was egging us on to continue but doing nothing?
had jews sell what few marketable products our "nationalized" industries managed to produce to westerners and pocket all the profits?

what does any of that have to do with the critique of capitalism

>>538563050
when you choose communism and cap people's ability to earn
you get a country where everybody does the bare ass minimum to get by
then everythign goes bankrupt
cf. USSR and commie satellite states like Poland

>>538555315
No why would I waste my time?

>>538563050
i want neither and i will accept neither

id rather burn the world in nuclear fire that let some jew pedo cunt run anything in my turf

>>538563050
The salary wasn't the problem. The problem was that in stores you didn't have anything to buy. In my country you had special stores for miners, party dignitaries, military, militia(police) locked behind you working in a specific place. There there were two type of Foreign Currancy store (Pewex& Baltona), where everyone could buy stuff they wanted. And they had everything ranging from diapers, medication to cement, cars, jewlery etc You had to pay with foreign currancy in those. Tricky thing about that was that in our country you couldn't buy(or sell) foreign currancy legaly, you also couldn't bring it from abroad (if you had any the state would take it and replace it with a special stand in currancy, at an EXTREMLY bad exchange rate). You could since the 1960s legaly own it.

This create some fucked up situations when new a soviet soldier brought poli plague in1958, there was a vaccine for it, but only for children of dignitatries and those with dollars/gold/etc.

>>538563424
Whether you stand or lie down, you're still entitled to 2,000/czy się stoi czy się leży 2000 się należy.
Old polish communism time saying.

>>538563644
>special stores
yep the "yellow curtain" stores
fucking communist retardation
God bless Ronald Reagan for bankrupting it all to hell

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Are the propagandists like Hannity and Tucker et al really a class though, or just another occupation?

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>>538555315
The problem is not capitalism, the problem is the politicians in your country.

>>538555315

Soviet Communism was worse than Capitalism. The elite drove around in Zil limos, and shopped at the elite malls. Everyone else queued for potatoes.

>>538556805
Gottem

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>>538564577
>checked

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>>538564768
Wrong. Capitalism produces apex sociopaths through economic natural selection.
>>538564577
Checked and you are half right. Every civilization has two challenges - what do you do with the people who aren't intelligent enough to participate fully and how well do you control your sociopaths from gaining political or economic power. Here in the US our solution is to import even more retards and worship the sociopaths, which is obviously not sustainable.

>>538557836
Communism is always going to fail because is not compatible with reality. Sociaty is going to progress but not this lazy communist cultist think.

>>538560801
Yeah itns almost as if you need a society promoting morak values like a Christian society. Commies are beyond retarded.

>>538556936
Life is not a entitlement nobody owe you shit if you fail in life is not because some Imaginary boogyman that you leftist losers created in your head. People like you should be send to gas chamber you are a waste of resources that can be use for people who want to work and don't blame there misfortunes in some imaginary thing

>>538566763
you mean the christian societies that banned usury for everyone except the jews, which ended up being one of the big factors of why they have so much power today?
those christian societies?
also ofc you will be too low IQ to see that i didn't defended communism anywhere just called you out on your retardation

>>538555315
wealthy people will go to no-ends to defend Crapitalism because they are wealthy and want to keep their lifestyles

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His critique was never the problem, it's his retarded thoughts on how society should be shaped are. His philosophy is no different than what capitalism itself is built on - vain materialism and the pursuit of money in contrast to everything else. In a sense, he was the first libertarian. Marx was all about muh individualism and how much shekels the individual needs at the expense of everything else. He was anarchist, individualist and materialist.

>>538567099
Can't be more retarded and dishonest (a jew) than you for generalise on a period of 1500 years for my country alone with many change and awareness thought time.
You're so fucking useless. All of that because you were raped by your rabbi and father. It's because of your damned religion not the non jess you neurotic trash

>>538567168
>lies
A bunch of lazy fags will defend communism because they thing they are owe shit then working for it like everybody else.

Making critiques is an entirely different thing than proposing valid alternatives.

I think he nailed the CMC vs the (((MCM))) money cycles.

>>538557170
>>538557348
Karl Marx was a Jew and directly related to the Rothschild family

what is there to refute? it's literally just an observation. a literal 5 year old could point out the flaws in capitalism. notice how the dipshits that get baited by this midwit slop never have an actual solution other than the most braindamaged infantile political system of all time? lmao

>>538567634
There is alternative a mix system no system will never be perfect and all of them will fail at the end.

>>538567715
Because there is no solution it doesn't exist all system will fail at some point

>>538555315
>can anyone here refute Marx's strawman argument against the imaginary construct he created?

Name a single prediction marx made that has proven correct.

>>538557358
You know you can just buy stocks right?
Nobody will stop you

>>538567807
>Because there is no solution
There is a solution and everyone knows it but it'll never be implemented non-violently because the people that control the economy will never allow it.

>>538555315
Yeah.

"I got mine, Jack!"

>>538557126
You people really need to shut the fuck up about the revolution.
You're all a bunch of fucking pussies who couldnt fight your way out of a cardboard box so we know you won't be doing that, and you have been on the opposing side of every technological revolution for the last 150 years.
So just shut the fuck up.

>>538567920
There isn't illusions in you head won't change reality.

>>538555315
Mordecai Moses Levi. A jew which they love communism and socialism.

>>538567920
Facism