The meme that destroyed /pol/It's been months and still no rebuttal
>>538975186but why did they trace a picture of jeff gerstmann, a known leftie?
>>538975186describes jews on both sides
>>538975186>destroyed /pol/it didn't. Here is your communism, bro
>>538975186>because no system ever devised has had a higher death toll or pushed more suffering on its own populationFixed it for you
>>538975688>no system ever devised has had a higher death toll or pushed more suffering on its own populationHighly debatable. How many people in capitalist countries have died or suffered because e.g. they can't afford healthcare?
>>538975186Communism is worse because Capitalism is an economic theory in which the individual owns itself and the product of its labor (labeled as capitals) allowing it to trade for what it considers to be of greater value in order for it to prosper. Capitalism is also the only real answer to coercion and slavery as consent is required to extract resources from others (unless a government is involved).> That's a weird phrasing on your image macro.
>>538975809Find someone cheaper / increase the value of your labor? There's obviously a way to undercut such a huge healthcare profit margin.Oh, is government in the way?
>>538975186If communism is so awesome, why Western commies never want to move to communist countries? Check mate commie retard.Go work on a collective farm on North Korea and never come back.
>>538975186How can there be morons who still believe in communism after the absolute failure of the Soviet Union and communist countries, nations that not only went bankrupt but killed millions of innocent people. It is a total piece-of-trash system, yet there are still idiots who support it; I may be against capitalism, but communism is the worst thing of all. Fuck off.
Some things never change.
>>538975186
>>538975809Not debatable at all. USSR + China death tolls at even minimum estimations are 100m combined. If you judge a system by suffering at scale, then communism is the worst system.China only became prosperous when they opened up to being used by Western capitalists for cheap labour
>>538976050
>>538975186It's too nonspecific. It's a 'no U' with labels applied.
anyone still defending the judeocapitalist western american paradigm at this point is a fucking kike or bot
>>538976112communism is a failed practice
>>538975959Because we saw how the Soviet Union did Communism: Dismal, a vast poor majority with a few uber-wealthy elites, political opponents in Gulags and lethal murderous oppression, and wanted Capitalism instead.And then we saw how the Russian Federation did Capitalism afterward: Dismal, a vast poor majority with a few uber-wealthy elites, political opponents in Gulags and lethal murderous oppression, and assessed that these problems might just be endemic to Russia instead of the system used.
>>538976152out comes the kike bot
>>538976335You do realize that if America became communist, they wouldn't need to go through hoops to kill chinks, Muslims or Russians.
>>538976513>ifAnon...you live in a Communistic Matriarchy. Its always been that way...and it got through by "we're fighting Communism" while stealing shit from people and giving it to the parasite class.The final result is "Champagne Socialists", aka Capitalist ZOG-Golems and their leader is Jeffery Epstein. Its not a slander...he IS the leader of the Democrat party and all "anti-Israel" shit coming from the left is controlled opposition, hence golem.
>>538975186How does communism solve this problem?>Have chair factory>machine breaks, new part comes in two weeks>7 chairs on hand>10 people need chairs>Who decides which 3 people go without until the machine is fixed and why?>Hardmode: no violence or threat of violence.
>>538976728Not an argument. Just ranmbling cope from someone who doesn't live in or know America.>>538976775Communism is only possible through mass genocide, because communism doesn't have the capacity or logistics to sustain a lot of people. Its why mao killed a fuck tonne of people.
>>538976775The 7 chairs got to party members priorities by standing in the party.Rest go to gulag to make more new parts for chair machine.
>>538976914>capitalism doesn't commit even worse genocideslol lmao
So communism allows you freely create a business and make as much money as you want? You know like in a fair free market type of way? Oh no? Then stfu retarded kid.Checkmate. Fuck off commie.
>>538976977Name one genocide committed by capitalism.
>>538976728RETARD SCHTIZO>>538976914>Its why mao killed a fuck tonne of people.This was obvious. Even Vietnam had flies back in the 60s saying this shit.>>538976977Can you list even one?
>>538975186>n-not real communisms!!!!!
>>538976945
>>538975186One of the most startling realizations of the 21st century has been the inescapable conclusion that communism, despite all of its atheism, murderous tendencies, economic shortcomings, and various other evils, is still much, much better for a nation than Clown World’s neoliberalism.
>>538976914>Communism is only possible through mass genocideShhhh, don't spoil it, i want him to answer.>>538976933>Rest go to gulag to make more new parts for chair machine.Yes comrade, send those 3 spies to gulag, the party says they are the ones that sabotaged the machine anyway.Makes a lot more fucking sense how Chernobyl happened huh? Don't fix, just hide and/or blame.
Collectivist solutions can work. The fundamental problem with communism is not the idea of collectivism in itself. Rather, it's the fact that there's no empiricism in communism. This is a group of oldheads muttering about philosophy and history. Not a group of young entrepenurs and scientific thinkers. That's why it fails.Let me give you an exampleCommunist society>party leader Sergey said we need to dig 50 drainage ditches in this field, spaced evenly>"but that doesn't make sense because...">you are an anti-revolutionary! How dare you disobey our great leader! To siberia you go!Scientific solution>we did a study on drainage, our study recommends drainage ditches should be 20 feet apart and about 6 inches deep. This study was for basedbean farmers in temperate conditions. Be advised there is a margin of error>we recommend you implement drainage ditch polices on local communities and let them implement it>we'll try it on a few fields in the southern principality. If the trials go well we should expand the scope>here's our mathematical models and histograms demonstrating our result to the publicSee the difference? It's a different culture in thinking. Empiricism vs philosophy/psedo-religion
>>538977128True communism doesn't really exist anywhere, China's success (which came after culling 50 million of their own people), didn't actually occur until Dengism introduced a form of communism called, 'communism with chinese characteristic' which is essentially allowing international capitalism but socialism within it's borders, almost like some kind of 'national socialism'.
>>538977036An entire people has been rendered structurally killable, with their suffering and death commodified for profit.
>>538977128sure buddy
>>538977193It's still better though.
>>538975879>Capitalism is an economic theory in which the individual owns itself and the product of its labor (labeled as capitals)Densest lolbert award for you. Firstly capitalism is not an "economic theory" it is a social system which actually exists. Secondly capital is defined as when an "individual owns itself and the product of its labor". This is the most bizarre wrongheaded definition of capital I have ever read. Not even the most pro-capitalist ideologues would agree to this definition. Capital as normally defined (and not just be marxists) requires the purchase of wage labour, and because capitalists own the means of production the labourer does not own the product of their labour. What you have written is an inversion of reality which is not unusual for lolbert.
>>538977128>>538977197Communism is dying. Its why you shill keep spamming it.
>>538977242>National Socialism is better you know anon you've convinced me.
>>538977215Okay Rabbi
>>538977128>One of the most startling realizations of the 21st century has been the inescapable conclusion that communism, despite all of its atheism, murderous tendencies, economic shortcomings, and various other evils, is still much, much better for a nation than Clown World’s neoliberalismFucking retarded.How the fuck can you come to the conclusion after seeing the absolute devastation of the post-soviet union?
>>538977248>Not even the most pro-capitalist ideologues would agree to this definitionSays who?You retard?
>>538975239I thought it was Ethan Klein
>>538976945There are still idiots today who want to eradicate mosquitoes despite their importance in an ecosystems food web. Currently today insect populations are crashing and with them bird populations. Disregard for the environment is not unique to either capitalist or communist societies. We are degrading the environment to such an extent today that we are approaching biosphere collapse. The problem we have is when any sensible limits are tried to be implemented there are a bunch of ignorant fucks who screech about red tape or muh gdp.
>>538977530attacking nature is extraordinarily satanic and always results in some horrific (often intentional) blowback.
>>538977339Give me an example of someone who defines capital as someone keeping the product of their labour. I'm not aware of any economist from classical, neo-classical, Austrian, neo-liberal etc who would define capital is such a bizarre way.
>>538975959>How can there be morons who still believe in communism after the absolute failure of the Soviet Union and communist countries, nations that not only went bankrupt but killed millions of innocent people. It is a total piece-of-trash system, yet there are still idiots who support it; I may be against capitalism, but communism is the worst thing of all. Fuck off.Because they're not morons or idiots, they're evil. They're integrated psychopaths, they want to destroy society and do as much harm as possible.Imagine yourself eating a feijoada, you go "hmmmm, yummy!". Well, they feel the same if they see you sent to a "reeducation camp", or if you go hungry due to their deranged policies. Their brain works like that.
>>538975186Communism works until people wise up to those taking advantage and not doing their fair share of the work. People then rightfully either go do their own thing or stop propping up the system. Why should I work hard if other people don't have to work hard?Capitalism is just reaping what you sow, owning the fruits of your labor and resources you create. All the criticisms people have of capitalism aren't even about capitalism, they are about corporatism and departures from actual capitalism. Capitalism require voluntary participation, forced taxation etc. is just theft/slavery.
>1 pbtid OP = pledditard Australia flag brainletNeither exists, it's a globalist corporatist debt-based system controlled by central banks<---that completely rule each of all 160 nations worldwide in debt slavery.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debt-to-GDP_ratio
>>538977988>All the criticisms people have of capitalism aren't even about capitalism, they are about corporatism and departures from actual capitalism. Pure delusion. If this were the case then no where is there capitalism and all arguments as to whether capitalism is better than something else are moot. Capitalism actually exists in the real world. What you are describing is laissez‑faire anarchism which exists no where and has never existed. It is nothing more than a utopian liberal fantasy. It is as ridiculous as a communist's stateless classless society.
>>538976057>If you judge a system by suffering at scale, then communism is the worst system.It just seems like you're arbitrarily limiting the scope to suit your argument. "Suffering at scale" strongly implies that we are discussing more than deaths... and more than just DOMESTIC deaths. My argument is that if we care to discuss "suffering at scale," we have to evaluate more than just deaths from famines a hundred years ago. We additionally have to examine in good faith the impact our policies have had on more than just people domestically -- e.g., how do you quantify the economic and social results from American drug habits creating massive cartels in South America? Or what is the suffering quotient of American (or generally capitalist) corporations setting up in impoverished countries, paying pennies on the dollar for labor, and extracting wealth without commensurate returns? I feel like you're not really considering the problem in its full scope.
>>538978238>1 pbtid OPIt's so he can say "still no rebuttal" tomorrow.>>538978349Communism - if only people weren't greedy and lazyLibertarian - if only everyone had a sense of accountability and personal responsibility.Neither work because it doesnt account for people being shit.>What you are describing is laissez‑faire anarchism which exists no where and has never existed.It may have existed, but the half-life of a system like that would be shorter than the modern day news cycle. A truly free market with no oversight or regulation would quickly become not-a-free market.
>>538978672>heits a bot
>>538975377nigger, the most durable building in our country actually came from muh gommunismnow im not advocating for it, but some things they did right, like building buildingsyou dipshit
>>538975809How many people in capitalist societies had to commit cannibalism to survive?https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazino_tragedyhttps://www.rfi.fr/en/asia-pacific/20160522-cannibalism-china-publication-official-records-50-years-after-cultural-revoluthttps://mvs.gov.ua/en/golodomor-1932-1933
>>538977694Not sure what [names] have to do with the argument's essence, but there you go.John LockeRobert Nozick G.A. CohenGary Galles
>>538977988Raw capitalism can be as simple as collecting empty cans in a cart and bringing them to the depot. Then 'investing' your return into the one-armed-bandit down at Flossie's Pub... where good ol' Flossie hasn't filed taxes in nine years.
>>538978806USSR was old communism, new communism is all about the tofudreg construction for profits.
>>538978238Why does China have the greatest debt of all nations then?https://finance.yahoo.com/economy/articles/chinas-economic-growth-hits-slowest-081325093.html
>>538978958>How many people in capitalist societies had to commit cannibalism to survive?Off the top of my head? Sudden, unforseen, and unavoidable happen chance type emergancy survival situations where something that capitalism built and maintained temporarily broke (say a plane crash or power outage or some shit like infrastructure breaking). And thats about fucking it, so rarely and prob only happened to <10000 total people througout modern history. Same shit happens in communist shitholes but shit stays broken for longer and people get rescued slower.>source: my buttI'm willing to admit im wrong if there are any worse examples but im mostly taking the piss and just being a jackass.
>>538975186The whole capitalism vs communism nonsense is how they keep you enslaved. In reality we have neither. The modern world is running on pure Judaism, and its almost entirely unapposed. The Jewish debt based monetary system and other financial instruments are the main source of our problems.
>>538979351So you have no examples, yet communism has three examples 2 are in the millions. The last one was only a few thousand but 95% of the people that lived committed cannibalism.
>>538979560>so you have no examplesThatsthejoke.jpg
>>538978980Locke, Nozick and Galles didn't write a definition of capital. G.A Cohen is Marxist and his definition of capital is definitively not what the other poster was saying i.e that capital entails appropriating the surplus of wage labour. I despair arguing with lolberts. Has any lolbert ever read a book that wasn't a lolbert propagandist tract? Even someone with the most passing knowledge of these concepts would understand how pants on head retarded that posters definition of capital is.
>>538975239lol first thing I thought of.
>>538975377>>ai slopMeanwhile in reality just couply of days ago in your homeland muttmerica
>>538975186>"Capitalism is evil because [describes socialism]!"Every time.
>>538977181>"Central planning would work if I was the planner."Yet you still can't solve the ECP.
>>538977248>Not even the most pro-capitalist ideologues would agree to this definition.I would agree with this definition because, unlike you, I've actually read pro-capitalist books. Your commie gaslighting won't work here.>and because capitalists own the means of production the labourer does not own the product of their labour.The employee agrees to sell the product of their labor in exchange for a wage. This arrangement wouldn't be possible if the employee never owned the product of their labor, because you can't sell what you don't own.
