>>539033344
>this lil nigga asking google stupid shit and posting the screenshot so fast his threads are back to back in the catalog

if they need markets and business build their country, that is direct evidence that their proposed communist society cannot possibly be achieved.

>>539035576
Asians are fucking retarded welcome to the world

>>539035576
or maybe it's a lie the rich chinks tell to the poor ones so they stay in power like how our rich pedos tell us we can all make it big one day too we just need to buy more buttcoin

>>539035576
Idiot
They're building up to it. Capitalism is not end game

Don't mind me, just workin' out the kinks fellas lolz

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X48uZMsbufI

>>539033344
The Western Goyim are coping again. Stockholm syndrome induced by decades of "living" under Capitalism.

>>539033344
So capitalism is an essential part of communism, and all communist anti-capitalist rhetoric is lies and deception.

>>539035576
if you need other machines to build a plane, that is direct evidence that a plane cannot possibly be achieved.

>>539036828
Capitalism is a materialism.

>>539036828
*Communism is a materialism too.

>>539033344
>energy
>telecom
>infrastructure
>healthcare
>banking
>real state
>mining (including rare earths)
All state owned, all government run. Even their """""""private""""" companies like Huawei are "owned by workers" and controlled by the CCP. They're as socialist as they were in 1965, they just play pretend so the capitalist kikes don't blockade them like they do with Cuba

>>539036828
It's a controlled transitional period, dumb kikeslave.
>all communist anti-capitalist rhetoric is lies and deception.
Obviously not, but no one was claiming otherwise either, gaslighting kike rat.

The problem i see in that they consider communism can exist but can't drive developpment.
So basically, once they reach communism, they expect the economy to stay in a stable state, not to grow ever again.

you didnt figure out shit genious, even the ussr under the new economic policy was like that and is also how vietnam operates, the socialist state uses capitalism as a temporary stage until new technology science and shit figure out how to do economics without need of markets, so state capitalism is a transitionary state towards socialism and then communism according to communist ideology

>>539035631
Leftists are fucking retarded. The denialism and cope from them is on a whole other level.

>>539033344
China is actually a fascist nation, but leftards are too fucking retarded to see it

Communism in theory is technically anarcho-communism, which is an unattainable utopian ideal. It's candy land tier wishful thinking.
The logic is that through state socialist policies a society can gradually transform itself into this magical utopia, everyone will stop acting like humans have since time began, and then the State apparatus will gradually wither away.
It makes sense if you just need a reason to take the rich people's shit and convince retards they are morally superior by thieving for the collective """good""".
I used to really buy into the theory, but as I got older I realized that anything approaching the communistic ideal is impossible in a multiracial nation, and that living alongside deleterious actors creates a feedback loop where the good intentioned people are increasingly exploited by leaches until the good intentioned people are drained.
Everything seems like it's happening slowly, but in the grand scheme of things it will only be a blink of an eye before the shear incompetence of brown "citizens" will cause all aspects of society to break down past the point of reconstruction or reconciliation. The el'ites know it, they just think they can ride out the chaos in Argentina and can play both sides against the middle. Basically the plot of the past 500 years has been kings and governments coming to the conclusion that White people are scary, and that they need to be kept broken or else something unexpected might happen. Browns have been completely degraded through a lack of natural selection and proliferation of slavespawn over the past few millenia. Modern browns are ideal """citizens""" for modern ""'governments""" because the brownoids never do anything truly unexpected, they just eat and when they aren't fed they shuffle as far as they can to find food, or starve.

>>539033344
They play the "capitalist game" as a single entity. The communist party treats the whole nation as its own asset, thus ruling its citizens like a typical communist government. The government can confiscate all assets and lands at their whim, and use the people as slave labor for their capitalist ambitions in the international market.

You people doesn’t know what’s socialism and that sell or buy things is capitalism, you are so stupid to depend capitalism, if wasn’t for socialism the 1% would still keep your children as slaves working in factories and you would have even fewer rights as workers, in western society destroyed by capitalism to benefit only the 1% of trillionaires and billionaires and their countries have millions of homeless people and people living bad, China literally in 40 years make almost 1 billion of people grow economically and without the need to be a pirate country like US who attack weaker nations to steal their oil and resources, tariff and try to economically destroy other countries and make everybody buy or give preference for them to keep their economy above other countries, don’t let some countries grow, have countries who are vassals who live in fear of US tariffing, economically destroying or bombing them, while China grow up without all the dirty tricks from USA who still have millions of homeless people, no healthcare things who are almost non-existent and rare in China, who you are free and secure to walk at night without homeless or economically destroyed people wanting to steal and kill you.

Even North Korea every citizen have a house and they don’t need to pay government to keep their houses, but US have millions of homeless people and people dying without health while have 1% of billionaires, trillionaire, politicians, actors, rich people paying the least amount of taxes than a average citizen, since the politics aren’t made for the best of the population but are made for the best of the 1% and their nepobabies in capitalism, politics to benefit more then and punish more the majority of population of their country with no healthcare, houses, paying more taxes than billionaires, politicians, actors, these extremely rich people who benefit of the capitalism made for the 1% have much more advantages even already being rich for born as nepobabies.

>>539037563
So you're saying xi and putin are poor?

>>539037012
>socialism is when the capitalists control the government
kek

>>539033344
That seems like a wild fantasy. China is dealing with being betrayed by Jews and killing their own people. China has boarded up old temples and buildings used by the red guard to “lock” in the Jewish evil. They graveyards of redguards are cemented shut and graves are covered with black cloths to shame them from memory

>>539037355
Capitalism in theory is technically state assisted corporatism, Captialism is an unattainable utopian ideal. It's candy land tier wishful thinking.
The logic is that through the invisible hand of the market all the needs of a society will be fullfilled by capitalist greed. They are not.
Roads keep being built by taxes, and bridges, ports, airports, sewers and everything that make a society function, and money creation, and global financial management, is done by the state and on public money.

This thread restored my faith in mankind, cheers.

>>539037617
It’s not forbidden to be rich in socialism, but the politics are made for the best of people, for the workers and not for the privileges and advantages for the 1% who don’t need more privileges and advantages than the ones they already have.

It’s not fair you have a country with millions of homeless people and people without healthcare and don’t work for fix it and still have politics to benefit the billionaires instead of the majority of your population first.

You don’t want to create a society focused in keep the majority of population bad and focused in benefit only the already rich people. You want to make your whole population grow and get better.

Have rich people in China but the politics are for benefit the majority of people.

>>539036859
Nice try.

The plane can be achieved but requires the machinery to be maintained, or replicated.

>>539033344
Basic neodelevopmentalist idea (you call it communism because you retards call everything under the sun communism): International markets are by their nature anarchic, therefore you need individuals and companies with the ability to extract resources from anarchic markets. You grow such companies and individuals by establishing cut-throat free-market mechanisms where only the strongest competitors survive.

Look at the Chinese antitrust authorities. They actually secure competition. Chinese CEOs get executed for bribing politicians. Unthinkable in the US, where half the presidential election race is about collecting bribes.

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>>539037036
>It's a controlled transitional period, dumb kikeslave.

>>539035576
JFL at /pol/ midwits in the responses to this.

He is right, if they need markets and business to build up, that means two things.

First, even if they accomplished it, established a further phase of socialism, and it worked with no famines, they'd still need markets and business when capitalist countries are far ahead of them again. In the future, with new innovations, the expectations for what good quality of life is may change, maybe it will be that if you have to leave your home to be cured of any illness then you're underdeveloped, or if people have to work more than a couple hours a day then you're underdeveloped, and then they'd need capitalism again to develop.

Second, developing is basically about making machines and equipment to make things people need. If they need capitalism and business for this, it would mean they need capitalism and business in order to efficiently produce things, and would still need it in order to use those machines to produce what people need anyway.

>>539035853
In the commie mind, capitalism is a conspiracy in which people refuse to flip the "make everyone rich quick" switch because of a rich elite that tells people "prevent everyone from overthrowing us, and you can be one of us one day!" so everyone is miserable as a consequence of that ruse.

In real life, workers in socialism are miserable while workers in capitalism are RICH by socialist countries standards. Even now, despite the decline in first world countries.

A random worker in a capitalist country is a baller in a socialist country, and can just travel there and fuck the starving women for pennies.

>>539037833
Dude, are you low iq? That was that posters intent.

>>539038677
idiot

>>539038510
Probably this.
I'm for mixed economy capitalism, but the money must be based on something real instead of nothing. When its based on nothing it runs out of luck eventually.

>>539035914
It still proves that Communism is fools dream, it's also very hypocritical.
>We will achieve a workers paradise after we've acquired untold wealth to fund it.

They're not wrong. According to Marx communism is meant to be the natural evolution of capitalism.
You can't go directly from feudal agarianism to communism, since in order for communism to arise you need a proletariat and feudal agrarianism has no proles, just peasants.

>>539033344
china is a totalitarian state that allows markets and some market independence, which they can revoke at any time.

>>539038510
The issue with internet commies is they're losers and they want to drag everyone else to their level. If everyone else is a loser, than they feel like less of a loser.

>>539033344
China is a fascist country larping as commies.
They basically started off with marxism, slowly dropped all the retardation, added government overseen capitalism and han chinese nationalism, and there you have it, fascism.

>>539035853
The actual lie was them telling the West they had "reformed" and that they're totally super seriously a free market economy now. The Western ruling class is comprised entirely of kikes and their pet golems who are far, far stupider than they think they are. Their only concern in life is doing drugs and raping children. Past a point they actually convinced themselves that you can build an "economy" based purely on usury and other forms of financial trickery. It got to the point where they handed over all industrial capacity to the chinks because they genuinely believe that they're "generating wealth" by printing money and giving it to themselves. They think they've deboonked Marx's labour theory of value despite it being objectively true. Roads and factories are worthless to them. Real productive work is scorned and sneered at. China is playing them like a fiddle. This is what it means to do nothing and win.

>>539038701
How is Chinese money fake if they’re the only ones making and selling things? The only shit left in the USA is private equity dei garbage and military industry stuff. Both sucking off goverment tits.

The reality, US have millions of homeless people, people living in cars, no healthcare and China removed 200 million of people from extreme poverty in only 40 years, they are a safe country to walk at night without homeless people and criminals to steal and kill you, and this with US working hard to try to make some countries don’t negotiate with China, don’t make have access to some things to try to make China grow slower, you are so brainwashed by the capitalist country made for the benefit of the 1% and not for the benefit of population and also forget that US money mostly comes from steal from other countries, tariff them, bomb them, make them negotiate only with US or try to tariff or invade or destroy their countries if they negotiate with someone US doesn’t want making countries by fear negotiate only with US.

China is becoming richer and they educate the population that China was poorer in 1980s because the new generation of Chinese people are born in a better economy and need to be educated about their past to not be manipulated by US propaganda, also their American social media who China ban and create their own social media for US don’t manipulate people by social media against their country for benefit of US empire and interests like US does for themselves or Israel. But China don’t ban VPN so the people can still use social media but only if they want and using VPN but this create a barrier and people prefer to use the own social media instead of the manipulation machine from US interests who create people brainwashed by US/Israel interests and narratives, even more now that the government can have bots and a foreign social media from a empire who don’t want to see other country grow economically or want to still get bigger benefits for their own country and social media is a US weapon too this is why is banned in China, but if people want it they can use VPN, but the people prefer the social media of their own country.

>>539036828

Germans used to be smart

Literally the whole premise of marxism is optimistic in a hegelian sense, e.g. humanity is constantly advancing from one stage to another, better one. Communists 100% agree capitalism is better than everything that came before - it's better than feudalism, which was better than the prior slave based system etc. They are not arguing capitalism is all bad, they are arguing humanity should transition into the next stage which is even better

The whole point of the CCP argument is that a feudal, agrarian society can't skip stages (from agrarian feudalism to post-scarcity, post-capitalist socialism). It needs an accumulation of capital, education and technological infrastructure to be able to have overabundance to spread equally and to achieve even further growth and development. They see western style capitalism as bad not because they "hate freedom" but because it has reached its limits in the current form where the elites are abusing their power to keep society artificially unequal and prevent lower classes from getting adequate education and resources. Which in turn is hampering progress. So Jack from Missisipi is forced to work on a gas pump to support his sick mom instead of aiding cancer research because a rich congressman has blocked free healthcare for his mom in order to preserve his wealth he got from insider trading of shares of a company that makes funko pops. A system like that is profoundly suboptimal and it should be reformed to give EVERYONE a better chance of self-actualization and ultimately aiding human progress.

How? Well that's essentially where commies differ and have billion schools of thought all arguing among themselves

>>539038890
Then they should visit Cuba (outside of tourist areas), Venezuela, or Argentina, and see that even as "losers" in capitalism, they're still rich.

One redditor said something like:
>we need to rebel and overthrow capitalism! what do we have to lose? netflix and uber? i can take it!
All of what he takes for granted is a consequence of capitalism.

>>539035576
The theory is that capitalism is great at wealth creation - much better than communism - but cannot continue indefinitely because competition becomes so fierce that nobody can make money (tendency of the rate of profit to fall (TRPF): capitalists automate more to compete with each other, but as they automate more profits fall because only human labour creates value (labour theory of value/LTV)). This leads to an increasingly small group of haves holding all the wealth, and the have-nots eventually rise up and create a state to redistribute it (socialism). By the time this happens there should be such abundance that efficient wealth creation no longer matters, the state has no more purpose and you end up with a stateless, classless society with communal ownership of the means of production (communism).

I'm not saying I believe this is true, I don't find the LTV/TRPF arguments convincing, but that is the theory and why communism needs capitalism first. What both the USSR and China have done is put the revolution before the capitalist stage. Marx didn't support this

>>539035853
>maybe it's a lie the rich chinks tell to the poor ones
They might be sort of rich now but they come from peasant stock. That said communism probably is just a carrot being dangled by the CCP as opposed to a real goal. They have no plan or deadline for achieving it.

>>539039178
Reality doesn't matter to those people. The fact I own a car & detached home fills them with blinding jealous rage. If everyone was in a commieblock than there's nothing to get jealous over.

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>>539039130
>progress
Spook

>>539039130
Marxism has 0 proof that it is an actual progression in societal development
It is an idea cooked up by a smelly jew who had too much time on his hands
He had a bunch of huge misunderstandings in human nature that made him arrive to communism
First he looked at the primitive human societies like hunter gatherers, saw that they operate like communes, and concluded this could be magnified globally. What he forgot to look at is that these tribes behave as a commune only intra-tribally, they will only share with those they deem part of their tribe, with outgroups they will still wage bloody fierce conflicts over resources. So the reality is primitive human tribes fit fascism far more than they fit communism.
Secondly he made the mistake of thinking conflict is a corruption of human nature. That wars are caused by the corruption caused by systems. The reality is conflict is literally baked into nature, human cooperation exists solely because you can outcompete other humans when you form groups/tribes, so there must always be an in-group and an out-group.
Thirdly he assumed crime, resource hoarding, and antisocial behaviour are products of resource inequality and scarcity. The reality is these are all just part of human nature, humans do not resource hoard just for basic survival, if a human has enough food water and pussy he will still hoard because hoarding increases future chance of survival plus increases social standing. There is no "enough" switch built in a human where he will stop hoarding wealth/power because he is satisfied. Biology dictates we expand our influence and domination until we no longer can.
The reality is war is not a corruption of humans, peace is a highly fragile construct that requires tons of effort to maintain.
If you dissolved a government and everyone had enough to survive, you'd immediatelly see people forming gangs and clashing over who steps into the power vacuum and dominates.
Hierarchy and conflict are normal

>>539033344
they say they are using all tools to advance socialism until they can achieve communism.
it is said with a wing though. even though their stated goal is the implementation of communism in the both the constitutions of the cpc and the country, that is a concession to the fact the commies created the PRC and won the civil war and millions, far more than are acknoledged, lost their lives in the struggle to create the PRC.
china recognises there were mistakes and failures along the way, but they also recognise the commies and Mao did beat the Nationalists who weren't exactly working for the benefit of the peasants.
both constitutions the chinese use, teh cpc and the one for the country, allow them a lot fo fudging and leeway. they still include Marxism-Leninism as a guiding principle, but also the ideas fo every leader since Deng & being too overtly Marxist-Leninist and being too Maoist is seen as heterodoxy and a deviation from the correct path of Socialism with Chinese characteristics and gets you punished if you are a CPC member. making dogmatic Maoist statements and Marxist statements is the end of your CPC career.
if you were in china you'd know that, surprisingly for how china is perceived abroad, written rules and the reality of how things actually are are quite different. they aren't obviously going to implement communism but they need to keep it there because so many people died (were killed) in the struggle.

>>539037338
the trains do run on time, so you might be onto something

>>539033344
I find this approach to be infinitely more tolerable than the reverse.

>>539037689
>socialism is when the government runs the economy
Yes, keep coping though

>>539035576
Its going to work, we just have to keep trying!

>>539039559

>>539039130 (YOU)

>He had a bunch of huge misunderstandings in human nature that made him arrive to communism

Communism is how humans operate by default

> So the reality is primitive human tribes fit fascism far more than they fit communism.

That's not fascism, fascism requires modern, industrial, capitalist nation-state to operate. Without it you can't force authoritarian, top-to-bottom power over others and instead relly on communist, bottom-up projection of power from the consensus of the collective. A tribal chief can't force his will upon the rest of the tribe through fear, monitoring and death camps because he's at mercy of others and not the other way around.

>Secondly he made the mistake of thinking conflict is a corruption of human nature.

No he argued that it arises as means for groups of people to get what they lack. If they don't lack they don't fight. It's literally called a conflict theory for a reason

>Thirdly he assumed crime, resource hoarding, and antisocial behaviour are products of resource inequality and scarcity.

Yup

>The reality is these are all just part of human nature, humans do not resource hoard just for basic survival, if a human has enough food water and pussy he will still hoard because hoarding increases future chance of survival plus increases social standing.

Yeah that's why we all hoard water from free public fountains and fight over it, even if a resource is available to everyone for free we hoard it anyway to increase social status. Personally I try to maximize the number of sugar packets I get in restaurants to signal to women my impressive supply of readily available calories

>If you dissolved a government and everyone had enough to survive, you'd immediatelly see people forming gangs and clashing over who steps into the power

Not a criticism against communism btw

>>539037012
>Huawei are "owned by workers"
Nothing socialist about this, as its an agreement between them, not a centrally planned thing.
>and controlled by the CCP
As in they have to follow the law?
>>energy
>>telecom
>>infrastructure
>>healthcare
>>banking
>>real state
>>mining (including rare earths)
>All state owned
Same with Franco and you wouldn't say it was socialism. It's also similar here.
>They're as socialist as they were in 1965, they just play pretend
Yes they are "pretending" to be capitalist so they can "pretend" to have a good life.

I also pretend to make money so I can pretend to buy groceries and then pretend to eat.
>so the capitalist kikes don't blockade them like they do with Cuba
There's nothing capitalist about the evil and imperialist blockade of Cuba.

But their absolute poverty is not due to the blockade, the blockade only adds to it.

>>539036828
Capitalism and communism lead to the same destination anyway.
Both support debt based central banking

>>539040276
That's what it literally is.

In capitalism you're already allowed to share. You can share everything with your neighbors and make a commune in capitalism. The only difference with socialism is that you'd be forced to and there'd be an intermediary running things.

>>539040425
No argument presented
Humans by default operate as tribals who fight other tribes, not as global communism, pretty obvious to see, you are just an idiot who refuses to see it. Intra-tribal sharing is fascism, or national socialism, it means only sharing with those you have tribal relations with, 20th century fascism was simply this idea scaled up to a nation.
A tribal chief enforces the rules of the tribe, he is someone who enforces the social contract, he does it through means of monopoly on power, he dictates who is killed or exiled based on their actions.

Again nope, humans do not fight because they physically lack something, you are again conflating human needs vs human wants. Human needs like immediate food and water are not something humans fight for in modern days, they fight because they want more resources and wealth.

You are an imbecile if you think crime stems from scarcity. Crime is a reflection of maladjusted human brains.
Please explain to me, rape is then a product of a lack of access to women, right? By your own logic at least.
So then we will communize the women I guess. Or maybe rape and other antisocial behaviour stems from human biology, not systemic faults.

We don't hoard water because we all pay for it and share it intra-tribally in the community. If your government decided to divert your water to a neighbouring country you hated for free, you think people would allow that, even if there were plenty for both your country and them? Again, completely missint intra-tribal preferences, and in vs out group dynamics, commies really are retards.

It is a criticism against communism, communism claims once a government withers away and everyone has their needs met nobody would reform the government
Yet this is obviously not true, the first thing people would do is huddle into tribes, cartels and gangs, then duke it out for power and control.

>>539040548
>As in they have to follow the law?
As in the political rights of the phantom shares owned by the workers are exercised by their union leader who is a CCP guy. Literally they do what the CCP says as do everybody who has more than 10 workers in China.
>Same with Franco and you wouldn't say it was socialism. It's also similar here.
I would absolutely say Franco's desarrollismo was socialist in nature, that's why it worked. It was almost indistinguishable from an USSR quinquenial plan they even had production quotas and such. When a socialist country is allowed to trade, they just win, when they're blockaded and shunned down they fail, it's just what it works
>Yes they are "pretending" to be capitalist so they can "pretend" to have a good life.
By being socialists doing a charade so they're allowed into the big world they pulled 800 million out of poverty. And this one for real, unlike Milei's blatant bullshit

>>539035576
The USSR did the same thing it was called the NEP.

https://www.ebsco.com/research-starters/history/new-economic-policy-nep

Point is you have to first go through a capitalist period before you can go into communism.