Has Jay Dyer ever been beaten in a debate?
>>539214725Nobody takes TAGfags seriously. Fuck off to twitter niggerfaggot orthocuck
He needs to talk to Caleb Maupin about Marxism and Christianity.
>>539214753>TAGWhat is that?
The way to beat him is to keep abstracting the argument. Make things more and more abstract, and he just dissolves.
>>539214725Yes by many people, Malpass, Aarvoll etc
The only good thing this fag has ever done is that video where he imitated Jonestein and Texe Marrs like 15 years ago.
adam green
>do believe humans have knowledge as we define knowledge to mean what can only exist if Yahweh decides so? We can’t debate until you agree
He lost to gnostic Informant
The time for debates has passed.
>>539214848>Aarvoll why?>>539214914link?
>>539214725Literally Who?
>>539214725> Has Literally Who ever been beaten in a debate?I don't know, but you sure look like you love to beat your meat, also, buy an ad
>>539214725Can he debate as good as Charlie Kirk?
>>539215087can't produce one, he refuses to debate him
>>539214843what happens if you try to win the debate instead of being an obtuse fag though?
>>539215238interesting>>539215181kek
>>539215115protestant youtuber, crushes people in debates
>>539215380orthodox*
>>539215380>>539215402> Infighting among Babylonian bitchesThanks/thread
>>539215239Because he employs all.kinds of tricks himself. He works by redefining things, reclassifying things, referencing obscure texts...etc. Remember this isn't a debate of facts but philosophy.
>>539214725
Arvoll beat him and he has been avoding arvoll for years since.He also got slapped by a based orthodog publicly in a debate.
>>539215582establishing definitions is something that happens in virtually every single debate ever. it's not a trick.
>>539215719why?
his interview with tucker was pretty good so I went and watched his recap stream of it on his own channel and he came across as very egotistical, defensive, and honestly kinda childish when discussing comments he got about what was said, I wasn't enthused to venture any further into his content
>>539215238>>539215337They both are agnostic. Adam Green is Atheist Agnostic and Jay Dyer is Christian Agnostic. Agnostics are terrible at debates. The basic idea is this... if you are smarter then who you are debating you just vomit out your useless knowledge that he is not prepared to refute or understand well enough and just make yourself look smart. If he is smarter then you then you become this bitch who pretends that you don't care about anything because you don't actually have any real beliefs. You win just by pulling the "I don't know" card. Thats the most annoying thing about agnostics is that they really don't know anything when you press them. They steal all their knowledge from smarter people and pawn it off as their own. But ultimately when put to the test they just cop out and don't know anything. They shouldn't be allowed to debate at all. Only those who are gnostic should be able to debate. You should know what you are debating.
He lost to fuckward Professor Dave. He now n9 longer does debates.
Has he ever debated anyone who won't accept that transcendental categories are necessary for any knowledge to be possible?
>>539214725I'm gonna be honest, I think if you look at layers of strata (I live in the southeast US so it's very hilly, there's lots of it here) and don't have the common sense reaction that you're looking at insanely long timeframes that go way, way beyond 6000 years or whatever, you're either a retard or doing some heavy coping. Dyer is a creationist, right? Or am I mistaken?I'm not a condescending reddit atheist type either, I'm just amazed a guy with this kind of intellect shoots down really established fields of science
>>539214725A few years back I beat him on X without even having the intention to do so. It was about the question whether religion influences culture in connection with Constantinopel turning gay and retarded, which is why the Turks could conquer it in 1453. My argument was that Orthodoxy had to go through this in order to develop its inner strength as a diaspora religion, which was the reason why Orthodoxy survived half a century of Communism and is stronger than ever. In difference to them Lutherism almost completely vanished, because they didn't have any deeper institutional survival instincs post 1648.He on the other hand insisted Orthodoxy didn't reflect on the culture of Constantinopel (or religion in general influencing culture), because it was perfect before and perfect after, which is obviously retarded.Upon realizing this he decided to block me. lol...
>>539214725When I saw him debating he sucked at it.
>>539215852You actually proved his point. He didn't say establishing definitions; he said redefining them. Those are different things. Establishing a definition for clarity is normal in a debate. Redefining a commonly understood term mid-argument to support your position is exactly what he was criticizing.
He was beaten easily by the "Muslim Lantern"
>>539214753You sound mad lol you probably couldn't even restate it without looking it up
>>539214843frame game hasn't worked for at least 10 years in debates
Internet debates really is the bread and circus of pseudo intellectuals. Midwits thinking it's magical when you argue semantics or call out fallacies.The type of snappy, back and forth conversations which most internet debates are don't actually proves who is right and wrong. It's all about appearing confident and psychological trickery to enchant the audience.
>>539222412If this were true then Dyer wouldn't have caused thousands of people to convert to orthodoxy.
>>539214725My version of jewish myth interpretation is better than your jewish myth interpretation! If you are White, its time to drop the Hebrew fairy tales.
>>539222509Fooling your brain dead e-audience to the point they convert also has no bearing on whether you're right or wrong.
>>539222509Nah it wasn't Dyer. That happened because of the shift to conservatism because of nigger and brown immigration. People repented in large numbers. Its funny that this fart sniffing faggot thinks he had anything to do with it or that people even believe he did.
>>539214725>christcuck
>>539225710>Indian
>>539226706>jewish golem
>>539214725he's kind of annoyinghe just spergs out with phd philosophy talk with this air that you're a retard if you don't get his references or phd level nuance these guys are arrogance maxxing for some reason as if they think it makes them look cool but its offputting and makes them look annoyingi think he's gay too
>>539214725He refuses to debate Gnosticism because deep down he knows Orthodoxy worships the god of this world, IALDABAOTH
>>539227750If gnostics took themselves seriously they would all kill themselves
all i know is a while back i went into his discord and labled myself as a pagan and all of his ortho twinks went crazy. they have all adopted his snide egotistical approach to talking to people. also, Jay Dyer ripped off Alan Watt's research and repackaged it with shitty attempts at humor. Simple as
>>539226947Yeah we know you are, here are your 2 rupees faggot.
>>539214725He is more jewish than a rabbi in his debate tactics.>>539223003When you debate him as an atheist he uses tag tactics against you and soemeone claims that tag tactics not only prove god but also prove christianity somehow and that they don't only prove christianity but also his form of eastern orthodoxy. If you accept the positon of tag that a God exists but in a deist or non-abrahamic theist position then he still continues debating you like you are an atheists, ignores your arguments and continues using the tag argument against you without proving any of his own positions. When you debate him as a muslim or any other form of christianity then he uses scripture autism that looks and sounds similar to the autism that marvelfags, starwarsfags and other fanboys of franchises use for debating canonicity.
>>539223003>>539230112He even said to his fanboys that when debating atheists use the tag argument, when debating muslims use the islamic dilemma. I don't like islam or muslims but I think some arguments that christians like him use against islam can also be used by jews against christianity or maybe even by catholics or protestants against his form of orthodox christianity but of course he is a giant hypocrite.He also claims that protestantism caused transgenderism, I could use the argument he uses for that to claim that christianity caused it, Jesus Christ caused it.
>>539215214Lost the gun debate in the funniest way possible xD
It's easy: just attack his character.Jay Dyer is not an Orthodog, he's friends with a Kabbalist faggot some guy exposed him and he shrugged that off as a joke really quick years later, but he's literally a fornicator and making fun of others for being single and not fornicating like him outside marriage.Why is a non-Orthodox defending Orthodoxy?
>>539228647>sar you are golem sarlmao folded like a bitch
>>539230346imagine knowing all of this. kys nigger faggot kike.
>>539230112Fuck you for engaging with a kike faggot. you yourself became a kike faggot for engaging with a kike faggot.
>>539214725Mark Brahmin made a fool of him. The retard literally believes that Adam and Eve were real people who talked to a snake, lol.
>>539230994Also, Professor Dave tore him a new one for being scientifically-illiterate at a laughable level.
>>539214725Yes he constantly is getting frustrated and pissy then hangs up on people. Just point out that his god is an evil kike god and has nothing to do with reality. His go to response is well how can you know if he's evil if he litterally does evil things?
>>539218328https://x.com/OwenBenjamin/status/2077919142230028717?s=20Owen Benjamin sums him up perfectly
>>539214725He leaves the debate, if opponent doesn't play the game on his terms.>>539214842Trancendental argument, the one ace in orthobro's sleeve. In most simplest terms its allowing circular reasoning for yourself, but not to your opponent.
>>539231720>Trancendental argument, the one ace in orthobro's sleeve.>prove transcendentals exist>surprised Pikachu face
>>539222509He manages to sepherd retards into it, or people from other denominations.
>>539231720TAG was invented by some calvinists in the 20th century to justify their belief. Jay Dyer took it from them and then pretended that this argument justifies orthodox christianity.
>>539232088
>>539232122>logic exists outside the mindWhat? Logic is a mental process. Is he conflating the process of logic with the things logic is describing?
>>539232364>Is he conflating the process of logic with the things logic is describing?He is and then he's claiming it exists "transcendentally" therfore the trinity.
>>539231818Then they try to fool people into thinking trancendentals prove their specific god. I've had street preachers attempt to convert me. (Its funny to see their face, when they notice you are familiar with Platonism and Christian though. They know you're not tard led from the nose easily, and switch tactics immeadietly.) They use platonism, which predates abrahmism, to prove flaws of materialism. Which is not flawed so far imo. When they try to bridge the two, philosopher's god and YHWH, its always becomes a big stretch. Appeals to emotion, sentiment etc. Its because they can't logic their way into christian god.In the ens, these tag presuppositionalist debates end up more or less like this:>trancendentals exist>this proves my specific religion>no I won't carry the burden of proof
>>539232420Also... >it exists outside the mind>...>therefore there must be a god-mind within which exists Is this guy a case of stupid arguments being obfuscated by complex and convoluted language?
>>539232596*the stupidity of his arguments being obfuscated
>>539232485>>no I won't carry the burden of proofyeah which is why Jay Dyer will immediately ask what your world view is to desperately get you away from demolishing his incoherent world view.He's essentially a neo-Jew
>>539232088Actually tag was formulated by Kant, if I'm not mistaken. But calvinists might have popularized it.
>>539232485>>539232644It's always the same pattern apparently, commies and a whole lot of others do this too:>this thing is flawed>a bunch of handwaving >therefore my alternative is correct and good
>>539232644I'm pretty sure its a method of converting people, not a debating tactic. Very agressive one, with no defense in it. Since it can be defeated by asking proofs. First the missionary undermines the views of the target. If you succeed, he is self doubting and standing on nothing. Gladly the missionary has a view which is exempt from from examination, and he gladly invites you to the flock. The target is seeking something more robust, and not thinking clearly at the moment accepts opponent's views, which were not proven in any way.
>>539214725Yes by many Catholics
I like the TAG but I think the historical/persecution arguments are more convincingThe TAG will only convince philosophically minded fellow autists
>>539214725He got owned so badly by Christian Wagner that he had to do an apology tour afterwards to rehabilitate his reputation. He's a joke.
>>539232485If transcendentals exist how are they knowable without revealed knowledge?
>>539214725He's a christcucks so I don't like some as oppressive and backward as him, but I have heard him talk about esoteric occultism and I get the feel that he is into it. Also I like that he is attacking other christcucks so among the christucks he's maybe my favorite, but that doesn't say much, but still.Im a trans btw and im more politically incorrect than all of youI want a nazi bf who wants to do tnd and tkdMaybe we'll adopt kids!
>>539233632>The TAG will only convince philosophically minded fellow autistsIt's the dumbest set of assertion imaginable. Real philosophers shit on that stupid "argument"
>>539234359What are some better ones? Genuinely curious
he shat his pants when handsome truth called in
>>539234769Where's the vid?
>>539214725jay dyer is a dipshit calvinist and satan told him the real iconoclasm is to tell everyone that his concept of nominalism is what protestants ackshually believe
>>539234875pfff ... it's in one of his call in streams. some weeks ago.
>>539233790Trancendentals by their nature come from trancendental source, percieved by spiritual senses. To describe it loosely.Or do you mean divine revelation like the prophets?
>>539232684Kant had a couple different TAGs. One was pre-critical that he later abandoned (the early book with the long title). The critical one he only lightly sketches out in the Second and Third Critiques. Neither argument is much like the Bahnsen/Van Til/Dyer argument. Dyer's form of the argument is particularly bad because he doesn't attempt to explain why the particular EO features are necessary for knowledge as he claims.
>>539234978https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irEkErw4eWg
>>539233790That's not the question though. It's not enough to prove that there is some revealed knowledge in order to prove that the EO god did the revealing. This has been pointed out to Dyerites *ad nauseam* and yet they still cling to their hopeless argument.
>>539214725what does this ugly faggot accomplish by "debating"?
>>539222509You could literally make this argument for any other cult leader in history and in present day.
>>539235654how did that debate make you feel?
>>539235534He uses TAG to get to theism, cites atheists like Hume and Quine to show that fundamentally materialism is at the same level of “trust me bro” as theism, and then demonstrates why non orthodox Christianities are gay or non coherent. Which is pretty easy when most Christianities are zionist now
>>539222111>>539230346>Christian version of the Islamic dilemma.What would that look like? >>539234166>anti-christian swede is a trannyMore news at 11
>>539232596>>539232637yep. cult leader using fancy words to lure morons to his cult
>>539214725Nope heavy weight champion, undefeated in the realm of thought leaders sparring how Jewish Christianity is. A true Goliath of intellect.
>>539215719Jay beat him https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jInSvafzL5Q
>>539231380>I'd get a manslaughtery chargey wargeyyeah he pretty much nailed it
>>539231380kek
>>539214725ecelebs are cancerhe's always been the guy who tries too hardeven being orthodox becomes about winning debates, though he'd of course performatively deny itthese influencer talking bobbleheads are not serious people
>>539235654the caller stopped arguing though
The crying after this was hilarious. Jay is such a boob.https://youtu.be/m0--dCsnqOA?t=3503
>>539244338I was on SA's side until he ragebooted Jay
>>539214725>won't even debate Adam GreenEmbarassing
>>539214725Alexander Tudor is a low-t closet homo but he could destroy this loser if he bothered with debates.
>>539231720I've like using the transcendental argument for the non-existence of God where you take the exact for symbolic form of the argument except you but a negation symbol and the "logic" now proves that transcendentally that God doesn't exist. Logic doesn't proves the existence of anything. Logic tell you whether or not what you've saying now is consistent with what you said earlier in terms of structural rules. Ever notice how all these debate never define either "exist" or "God" so everyone is constantly arguing in circles? It's so tiresome.
>>539244764>https://youtu.be/m0--dCsnqOA?t=3503Why? He showed he didn't know what he's talking about. What more needed to be proven? Why do you think Jay had to apologize after this? Even he knew he got owned.
>>539234166The mentally ill brown immigrant tranny and permanent spammer with Swedish flag is here again. We have seen the threads where you can't translate Swedish, and you ramble on how cute you pagancuck feel without your testicles and blown-up brown asshole.
>>539234166Are you feeling cute today tranny?https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/538100647/#538105756
>>539234166Norwegian anon asked you to translate the text and other questions regarding Sweden and Scandinavia, and not once were you a brown immigrant able to answer. You had to run the fuck away every single time.
>>539234166Multiple Swedes say your Swedish is made by AI and that you sound like a brown immigrant pretending to be Swedish.https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/538283191/#538297878https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/538053318/#538056120Even other browns know you're brown and fucking hate youhttps://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/538095407/#538108181
>>539233790Demonstrate why it can't be inferred
>>539245482>Why do you think Jay had to apologize after this?link?
>>539245745You christcucks have NO FUCKING right to determine WHO I AM or WHAT I AM!!> ~790s – Ongoing Campaigns>• Scattered uprisings & resistance.• Pagan practices increasingly pushed underground.> 804 – Saxons’ Final Defeat• Charlemagne's last conquest.• Christianity imposed as the only legal religion.> ~1080s – King Inge the Elder outlaws sacrifices at Uppsala (Sweden)• Inge refused to support blóts at the Temple of Uppsala.• Pagans replaced him with Blot-Sweyn; Inge later returned, killed Sweyn, and ended official temple rites.> 1100s–1200s – Gotland (Guta Law) bans all pagan practices• Blóts, offerings, and use of sacred sites (groves, mounds, “stafgarðr”) explicitly outlawed.• Violation required multiple witnesses and fines.> 1200s – Sweden, Norway, Denmark codify laws against paganism• Sacred stones, hörgr, vi, groves, and mounds forbidden as religious spaces.• Sacrificial rites criminalized under Christian law.> 1600s – Persecution against quiet revival, Christian destruction & societal control• The height of "witch" trials, Scandinavia, Germany & England. (e.g. Torsåker 1 June 1675 - 65 women, 2 men, 4 boys: beheaded & burned)• Hardline Christian "enforcement" still dominant.• Sami people & folk pagans persecuted. 1600s-1970s (e.g. Arjeplog trial, 1687)• Christian authorities confiscated sacred drums, outlawed joik (shamanic chanting) legal persecution.• Folk blót & nature worshippers persecuted.• Trollkyrka & similar sites seen as "active threats" to Christian dominance.> 1700s-1800s• Age of Enlightenment starts creeping in (rationalism, early secularism).
>how do you justify the definition of IS?>therefor adam and eve and say magic spell over wafers and wine and eat jesus' flesh >logic!
>>539222063He doesn't "redefine in the middle of the debate." He establishes at the beginning, or else he assumes his opponent understands the word and then has to explain it when the retards he talks to reveal that they're retarded.
>>539232596It's retards not stating his argument properly. Jay says logic exists independent of the human mind, as logic is universal and the human mind is finite and therefore logic must be in a universal mind, which is God's by definition. It's an argument to prove theism, not an argument specifically for the EO God. A lot of these atheists are too retarded to understand that there's a process to building arguments instead of immediately working on the final conclusion in the first syllogism, so they don't get what he's demonstrating.
>>539214725Not by retard atheists, but actual Thomistic scholars have spread his cheeks before
>>539214817Isn’t Caleb Maupin a known pedophile with a spanking fetish?
>>539214725Yes. Here's a debate where he gets BTFOed by a Catholic:>https://www.youtube.com/live/cuubVfEY5Jw?t=1170s
>>539250855Thomistards don't even understand Aristotle.
>>539233790It's revealed through my sense of intuition, no Bible required.
>>539233790they are presupposed a priori implicitly by everyone
His debate with Ybarra was the first time I saw him exposed, but the Thomists have really run circles around him. Dyer’s brand of Orthodoxy is nothing more that protestantism with an apostolic veneer. I still find his debates with retards entertaining but he’s not someone you should seriously take advice from.
>>539214725Yeah, pre-suppositional is retarded and his argument falls apart. The second you actually use his own thing against it. If you wanna look at a more autistic version of Jay Dyer look up somebody called Darth Dawkins, and this argument he uses essentially Jay’s entire career.Also, philosophy doesn’t really have a place in science as much as this larping faggot pretends it does. It turns out the nature of reality could give two shits when a human says “What doth life”
>>539252420>philosophy doesn't have a place in science>science>scientia>knowledge>epistemologyretard
>>539252420Yeah if TAG and the Christian world view is making you deny evolution, believe some 1st century Jew is God and believe the earth is flat then something is seriously wrong with your world voew
>>539214725Whites and their heroes are so fucking cooked lmao
>>539231076Professor dave has never tore anything on anyone.That screehing jew is a barely functioning retard.
>>539254004>the science is settled goy, you are a screechin monkey>monkey goy monkey goy
