>be me, non retard>always hear people complain about interest rates>"interest is stealing my money!">"why do I have to pay more than what I borrowed?!">be like, time to drop some knowledge bombs>start with car rental analogy>"You rent a car, you pay a fee, right?">everyone nods>"So, you're paying for the time you have the car, right?">more nodding>interest is like that, but for money>you borrow $1000, you pay interest to have the pleasure of using someone else's money>just like how you pay to use someone else's car>lightbulbs go off, people start to geaAAACCKKKKSHUT UP BITCH. https://youtu.be/oEgjc7a2Jx0>HURRRRRKUSURY REDPILLWhat’s usury?There are two definitions among the educated. It can be defined as either 1) any interest on any loan or 2) any interest on any loan made for a nonproductive undertaking (without regard to production). Any other answer is pilpul nonsense. The concept of “excessive interest” is as redundant as the concept of “excessive theft.”>Why should I care?Well, for starters, every dollar loaned into existence begins at the M1 fountainhead known as the Federal Reserve, where it is ultimately owed back with interest. From that fountainhead, money is multiplied in banks through fractional reserve lending over and over, creating an environment where there is always far more debt than credit available to pay it all back.>Yeah, I’m against the (((Fed))), usury is more than just that, though, correct?“Usury” conceptually encompasses all interest-bearing loans, or at a minimum (by the looser definition) all interest-bearing loans made for non-productive purposes (such as most personal loans). In the case of the Fed, the phrase “usury” encompasses the entire system of money multiplication, rather than merely its origination.>This all sounds esoteric.Maybe, but for hundreds of years it was recognized by all Christians as a mortal sin akin to murder, and seen as a distinctly Jewish form of warfare
>>539280527>Ok anon, but loans are taken in a freely entered contract. You can’t curtail muh freedom!That may be, but the conditioning used to normalize debt was not undertaken freely. Such propaganda has been pumped into the minds of the people without their consent, predisposing them towards slavery.>Ok, but still, they should have studied the terms; it’s still their fault when they take on such debt.Debt is often taken on under duress, i.e. to avoid insolvency and/or destitution. If you are dangling off the edge of a cliff, and I offer to help you, but only on the condition that you agree to be my slave, is the contract still binding? More importantly: is it ethical?>That doesn’t account for all debt, though.Perhaps, but remember: in a society where there is always more debt than credit, it is a mathematical certainty that some portion of the population will end up in poverty regardless of merit. In a game of musical chairs, it doesn’t matter if every participant is an Olympic athlete, each round one of them will be left standing. This is, in essence, a kind of financial Darwinism.>So the shitheads get rooted out of society. I see literally nothing wrong with this.The people who get “rooted out” are those less hell-bent on financial gain and more focused on other things. The people who prosper are those who are obsessed with material gain at any cost and with the fewest scruples - including the exploitation of their fellow man.>But without interest, no one would loan money. The economy would break down.There are many ways to loan capital that do not involve paying rent on the money itself. One way is equity stake, with or without buyback options. There are others, especially involving intellectual property. In essence we would have more venture capitalists, which means much faster innovation.
>But that’s business stuff; without loans no one could save enough money to afford a house until they were too old to use it.First, in a society without usury, your average family would be much larger and have far more purchasing power than today. Large families are relevant because parents loan money to their children to help with such expenses, and brothers/sisters are able to assist with labor or other expertise.Putting the family aspect aside: In the case of personal loans, the government has the means to loan to its citizens. For example, a government may elect to loan some multiple or fraction of a citizen’s annual income to any citizen who wishes it, and then reclaim payment via taxation. Citizens who fail to pay on time would be levied a simple penalty each cycle, and their future ability to secure credit would be reduced. These loans would be free of interest, since the government could simply create the money at the time the loan was made, just as the Fed and banks do now.>So we end up with a bunch of people indebted to the government instead of banks, wow sounds great.Unlike banks, the government could create and enforce work projects that extract labor from insolvent citizens, who then work until their loan-equivalent is paid. There are many other ways to handle this, but the bottom line is that these loans would be interest free, making them far less burdensome and disruptive to society, and the government has many creative options that banks lack.>Sounds very pie-in-the-sky…Maybe to you, but at times these were the norms. Can you imagine a time when things were actually built to last? Believe it or not, usury is a primary driver for planned obsolescence. Planned obsolescence should be thought of as the shadow usury casts over a society. One of many.
Oh look this thread again.
>>539280527
>>539280527Money printing is also debt taken out from citizen and given to institutions. When will the fed pay back its' debt? Surely you don't hold a double stabdard?
>>539280527If was simply charging 10% on the total or something along those lines that would be fair but compounding interest is kike shit. Usury
>>539280608>Ok, I’m skeptical but interested in learning more, any books?Yes.1. "Manifesto for the Abolition of Enslavement to Interest on Money" by Gottfried Feder (the man who convinced Hitler to join the NSDAP). Can be found for free on PDF. https://archive.org/details/manifesto-for-abolition-enslavement-interest-on-money-gottfried-feder2. "Usury: A Scriptural, Ethical and Economic View" by Calvin Elliott. Can be found for free on PDF. https://archive.org/details/ElliottCalvinUsury3. Most anything by Eustace Mullins (one of Ezra Pound's proteges); they too can be found free on PDF. http://www.eustacemullins.us/wp-content/works/4. "Economics for Helen" which is probably the greatest economics primer ever written, and covers Usury. His niece's name was Helen, and he was determined to write it simple enough so that even she could grasp it (and hence the average uneducated Englishman along with her). A Google search will find you a PDF of this for free.5. “Towards the Restoration of Property,” also by Hilaire Belloc.6. “Barren Metal” by E. Michael Jones.7. “Usury in Christendom” by Michael Hoffman.8. “Usury: The Scourge of Nations” by James Harvey. https://archive.org/details/usuryscourgeofna609harvFurther reading>The Servile State by Hilaire Belloc>Towards the Restoration of Property by Hilaire Belloc>The Outline of Sanity by G. K. Chesterton>A Utopia of Usurers by G. K. Chesterton>The Gold Standard by Brooks Adams>Essay on Public Credit by David Hume>The Riddle of the Jews Success by Theodor FritschCulture of Critique by Kevin MacDonald (I don't agree with him on high Jewish IQ but everything else is historical solid gold)Manifesto of the Breaking of Interest Slavery by Gottfried FederThe Jewish Question: It's racial characteristics and threat to Racial Existence, Society and Culture by Eugen Duhring200 Hundred Years Together by Alexander Solzhenitsyn
>>539280527/pol/ doesn't have the attention span needed to digest all of this or the cognitive functions needed to understand it.Let me sum it up.> Joos bad
USURY by Hilaire BellocWhen Bonds Are Issued to Yield a Profit Out of Destruction, or Exact Interest From Non-Productive Investment, the Evil Will Eat Society Up. Denounced by Ancient Pagans and Christian Moralists Alike, Usury Has Become a Term Almost Forgotten Although Its Practice Is of Daily Experience.interest for a few generations would demand a tribute more than all the wealth of the world could meet. A sum of money lent atper cent doubles, at compound interest, in just over 14 years. The debt increases a thousandfold in 144 years; in 288 years a millionfold! In 432 years it increases a billion- fold-one thousand million times! One cent put out at such interest when Columbus landed would now claim over $20,000,000.But, clearly you are doing no wrong if you put your wealth into some profitable enter- prise and claim a portion of the profit thereon. That is where the confusion arises.
https://youtu.be/hhB8US4R47sINOW go on to talk of the plague of monopoly, which is one of the very worst results of modern capitalism, and is ruining society quite as much as the burning sense of injustice suffered by the worker under capitalism. I shall speak of the monopoly of production gradually killing men's choice in what goods they shall enjoy; the monopoly of distribution, gradually killing men's choice of where they shall buy and of whom; the virtual monopoly of credit, through the concentration of banking and the stranglehold of the bankers on the modern capitalistic world.But before we can understand the growing monopoly of credit we must understand Usury.First, let us understand what we are talking about. The word "Usury" is used today in two very different senses. It is used to mean excessive interest on money: that is the popular meaning of the word. It is also used to mean interest on money as distinguished from profit: any interest, large or small, demanded for the "use of money” as distin- guished from payments for goods or services and from profit on trade. This is the strict original meaning of the word “Usury” and in that sense I use it here: interest on money or credit alone.It is a strange thing that though Usury has been denounced as an accursed sin, a destruction of society, ever since human society has existed, it has in modern times been left alone, and, until quite lately, was not seriously discussed. It was taken for granted that Usury was quite natural and would do no harm. The ancient pagan philosophers denounced it; the Christian Church denounced it vigorously from the appearance of this Church until the Reformation. All our moral theologians have denounced it. And yet, for a time, after the seventeenth century, until quite recently, Usury was more and more accepted until it became a matter of course. Only when the enormous harm that it had done was beginning to be felt was the question raised again.
>>539281113Now, Usury being the taking of interest on money merely as money, why is that wrong and harmful? Money is a social instrument devised for the exchange of goods. Its proper function is to work as currency. It does not breed. There is no natural profit attaching to it merely as money. If you keep it back from general circulation and take advantage of having it thus in your power and say to the man who needs to buy or sell “You shall not have this necessary currency unless you pay me still more money for the use of it" you are doing wrong.But supposing the contract were worded so that the capitalist did not get his 10 per cent as part profit, but got it as interest on money lent: not as instruments and reserves of food, etc., lent. Then he has a perpetual claim to $50,000 a year, payable out of wealth that is not there. This is called "interest on the unproductive loan" and such interest is Usury. To pay that tribute the borrower has to get further and further into debt or to sell other wealth of his, until he is ruined; and that is how Usury eats up society.NOW when money claims interest merely because it is money and without reference to the way that money is used, a large propor- tion of the interest must always be interest on what has become an unproductive loan. Part of the vast sums paid to the money lenders annually represents real profit, real wealth, real goods. But part will always represent, if money lending instead of partnership is at work, interest on a loan which has become, or was from the beginning unproductive.
>>539281286For instance, nearly all the great war loans demand interest on an unproductive loan. The money was spent in buying goods which were consumed, not in producing more wealth, but in producing no wealth-or even in destroying wealth. It went to support soldiers and sailors who produced no wealth and often actually destroyed wealth. It went to buy guns and ammunition which produce no wealth, but were often actively employed in destroying wealth. You spend $100,000 in buying guns and ammunition for knocking down in war an industrial building which, in peace, produced $5,000 worth of wealth a year; and you go on asking $5,000 interest on the money represented by worn out guns, exploded ammunition and a factory that has been destroyed.There are other ways in which the recognition of money's right to interest, merely because it is money, eats up society, but this one major case of the unproductive loan is sufficient to show the evil that Usury does.When money lending ("the providing of credits," as it is called) carries interest as a matter of course, it is an activity which devours mankind.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Th-EIXS-Y0I
Hard to believe we've only had this same thread 232 times now.https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/search/text/you%27re%20paying%20for%20the%20time%20you%20have%20the%20car%2C%20right/
VPN spamnigger. Kys
>>539281366t. Didn't read
>>539281617We've had this same thread hundreds of times over the last couple years. What do you gain by spamming this shit?
>>539280527you are a retard because interest isnt a "fee". its required because more and more money is getting printed infinitely losing its value
>>539280527I want to impregnate Merphy Napier. She can join my harem with Alysa Liu and Mona Kimura.
>>539281804>>539281886>Ackshually goy my rentier parasitism is necessary for societyKill yourselves kikes.
>>539281804You went to all that trouble to screenshot those threads but couldn't read a paragraph further in mine to realise my thread is making fun of them. Curiously autistic behaviour
>>539280527>Intrest rates is usury>Usury is jewish>Jews are satanic>Satan is homo erotic troon>Interest rates are gayJust as this op poofter.
>>539280527You can still do that without inflation.
>>539280527Shalom!
>>539280567>Ok, but still, they should have studied the terms; it’s still their fault when they take on such debt.I thought people who went to college were supposed to be smart?Go back to china
>>539280527This is a shill thread btw OP spams this every couple of days
>>539280527havent seen this one in a whilethanks OPTKD
>>539281366We should have more.
>>539284821When most basic are unaffordable without debt you have to take it.Anyhow, this isn't about debt, this is about interest, you kike rat.
>>539285275Hope he spams it more, avi.Anyhow, who is he shilling for, exactly, rabbi?
>>539280527Insurance is also usury. Insurance is merely a loan you pay prematurely without the benefit of being given anything.
>>539288556And the in the US, you cannot go without insurance.Since hospital prices are fucking INSANE.So you are forced into it.
>>539280527>creating an environment where there is always far more debt than credit available to pay it all backthis is the entire point of it
>>539281886Money is printed as a result of the fractional reserve principle. Without interest and usury, there would be no inflation whatsoever.
there is probably nothing you can ever do about it because even when usury was condemned and outlawed the jews still found a way to lend money, if usury was supposedly outlawed by both the muslims and christians how did the kikes have enough money to lend to bankrupt both the spanish snd french crowns by the end of the middle ages? because money is just a mathematical abstraction, they just make it out of thin air and sell it to people stupid enough to buy it. and then they are able to concentrate it through technology, so without the infernal engine of usury there would be no reason for technology or the "economy", really just centralized power to ever increase. people would just work less and devote themselves to spiritual practices but this makes them vulnerable to the first predatory lender or other predatory technology that they encounter. at its root it is really the problem of predation
>>539288951Without interest and usury there is no practical vehicle to starting a business or buying a home. You basically end up like 99% of premodern people - owning nothing, with no leverage
>>539289793you dont have to "buy" a home you build a home. that isnt the problem. 99% of the people still have no leverage. the problem is that 99% of the people get preyed upon by 1% of the people and that is the way it has been for thousands of years if not forever
>>539289793>vehicle to starting a businessNope, they are called invesments. Investors get stock in return. > or buying a home.You would be able to actually afford one if usury didn't exist.
