How is it that you people claim, "There is no God," yet you turn to someone and say, "You ought not to do this!" By what authority are you saying this, exactly? Do you not understand? The only thing we have ever observed to evaluate things such as right and wrong is the mind. You say, "There is no God," yet you think "ought" remains? How can it remain?Do you still not understand? If the mind is the only thing that we have ever observed to evaluate, how can then a mindless universe produce an ought? Ought comes from a mind, and you claim all that there is is matter and energy? In your world, there once was a time without a mind, without an evaluator. This world is blind. You know that someone who is blind cannot see, and someone who is deaf cannot hear. How then can someone mindless think and evaluate?Listen and see. Hear and understand what I am telling you: what you are advocating for is as much of an illusion as God is to you. Except, it is not; it is even more of an illusion. Someone who has faith in God can refer to God. You have no one to refer to, and unless you turn, these words I have told you will condemn you on the last day.
tldr you will never speak for zeus
>>539718595>There is no Godyes there no such thing. its purely a human idea.>By what authority are you saying this, exactly?if you arent a complete braindead nigger you can easily figure out that order is more favored by the universe (running on thermodynamics) than chaos/entropy.good things and beauty = orderbad things and destruction = chaosbasically morals is an emergent biological byproduct of complex organisms trying to maximize survival within those thermodynamic constraints.no foreskin sucking jew god needed at any step of this.>how can then a mindless universe produce an ought?non equilibrium thermodynamics create complexity and order to dissipate energy more efficiently.with enough complexity eventually a brain and concoiusness emerges.so yes at no step is a jew god required, an atom does not need to ask a central jew authority for permission to do its atom things and fuse into another element.
>>539719054Ok, so you don't believe. Suppose I forward you to someone who can grant your desire in exchange for your soul. Would you? What is your deepest darkest desire?
>>539718595If God existed the world wouldn’t be shit.
>>539719927Have you ever asked why the world is shit? Is it because of God or because of us? Do not put the blame on God for what humans have done to the Earth.
>>539719282>Ok, so you don't believebelief is irrelevant. I am describing HOW the system functions, whether you "believe" it or not.>Suppose I forward you to someone who can grant your desire in exchange for your soula nonsensical hypothetical based on a non existent variable.>What is your deepest darkest desire?that retards who use "magic deals" as a rebuttal to high level physics kill themselves.
>>539719054>>539719927I'm sure that god exists because he talked to me.
>>539720397thats just mental illness
>>539720460It happened only once in my life, schizos experience it often.
>>539720559is your life easier as an imbecile?
>>539718595>pure preferenceThat's all there is to it.Christianity doesn't have a problem of evil, btw, atheists do.
>>539720397Seamonkey conscripted onto Zigger front???
>>539719927If God and the devil didn't exist, nothing would be evil or good, yet the jews rape babies, crack open their skulls, and eat their brains.If the devil doesn't exist, then whence cometh evil?
>>539718595God isn't the only gestalt out there. "Ought" is a product of society, responsibility, and reciprocation.As for god, I don't give a fuck that you've anthropomorphized reality itself, but I will call you a total retard for ever claiming to know what such a being wants or plans for humanity.
>>539718595By God OP of course means YHWH. OP does not believe in other deities like Zeus, Horus, Perun, Diana, Amaterasu, Vishnu, Pele, and the like. Only YHWH, a jewish god, is real.Odd.
reality is pretty tenuous, you could take DMT or LSD and realize everything you 'thought' you knew was complete bullshit, not understanding this is what makes one a normie
>>539718595Deity like this doesn't dictate morality. However, you yourself don't believe that god exists, you only believe that we have to pretend that there's a god so you can have "an objective morality".
>>539718595>>539720158I believe in the only true God, and Jesus Christ who came into the world to reveal Him. The Father is the one standing in front of the mirror; the image in the mirror is Him, but He is not the image in the mirror. So it is with the Father and the Son. The Father made Himself known through the Son. Or again, it is like the sun and the moon: if you look at the sun, you will become blind, but by looking at the moon, you are seeing the sun's light. The moon's light is not its own; the light belongs to the sun, and by looking at the moon, you are able to receive it. So does the Son make the invisible Father known to you. This is why "I and the Father are one" and "The Father is greater than I" are both true.
>>539718595>You ought not to do this!because you'll get put in prison probably. so what if someone else kills another person? maybe that person was always meant to die that way. animals kill each other all the time and aren't labelled "murderers".
>>539719054Thats a lot of words. You can talk about the universe all you want but it bears no relation to morality, thats just you making that baseless link. The only real thing that matters in the atheist world when it comes to morality is "might makes right" and nothing else. Everything else you might argue as a response is ultimately based on your baseless educated guesses that really have no ground to stand on.
>>539720784From those who practice it. To claim that an external force is responsible for your own choices is nigger behavior.
>>539719054The point is morals are just an opinion without God. Everything you said is just an opinion and you believe in uncaused causes which is retarded
>>539721296>Thats a lot of wordstry reading a book nigger>it bears no relation to morality, thats just you making that baseless linkwrong again. morality is an emergent property of biological evolution and evolution isnt jew god magic.what you are actually looking at is the thermodynamic struggle to optimize energy transfer and information processing within a local system.complex systems (human brains) evolved specifically to evaluate surroundings and make decisions (morality/behavior).without the physics there is no biology and without the biology there is no morality.>the only real thing that matters... is "might makes right"in any complex energetic system cooperation and symbiosis are more efficient for survival than constant individualistic competition.if "might" were the only rule then multicellular life wouldnt exist because single cells would never stop killing each other long enough to form something useful.>baseless educated guessesthermodynamics isnt a guess you shitskin. while you are sitting there waiting for a foreskin munching jew god to tell you whats "right" the universe has already decided how everything functions through pure physical necessity. cope harder.
>>539719054>basically morals is an emergent biological byproduct of complex organisms trying to maximize survival within those thermodynamic constraintsBro, a few decades of no God have made moral for females to kill their unborn son.Plus a never before seen wave of nihilism that tanked the birthrate of every civilised country.Atheism did more damage to western civilization than barbarians did to Rome.
>>539718595The most irrational people are mostly Atheist. They will say there is no such thing as a god or a soul but they'll justify troons and all kind of other liberal mental disorders by saying "they were born in the wrong body!", you dumb nigger, if you're an atheist you believe they are their body! I honestly can't stand your typical atheist idiot.
>>539721942>bla bla bla i hate Jesus
>>539721786>you believe in uncaused causes which is retardedactually I'm describing causality driven by thermodynamic gradients and electromagnetic/nuclear forces.energy flows from high potential to low potential, thats the driver, not a foreskin obsessed jew god.also the universe doesnt need a "First Mover" when it has massive entropy gradients providing constant kinetic work. and its infinite anyway, it has no beginning and no end.so like the typical brown person you think the world is a static box when in actual reality its a dynamic flux.
>>539722016>made moral for femalesthats just jewish brainwashing and jewish policies.jews are religious, their religion and dumb beliefs in a fake and gay jew god forces them to make society shit for everyone and then people dont reproduce.>>539722111thanks for admitting defeat, I accept your concession.
>>539721786>You shouldn't rape or kill.>You shouldn't steal or destroy.>"Erm that's like your opinion, man."You're a lunatic and I hope you get raped and killed and your shit stolen and destroyed.
>>539722181>All things in the universe runs off or logic except for this one thing because I said soI don't care about how systems work. The system needs to come from somewhere.>universe doesn't need a "First Mover" when it has massive entropy gradients providing constant kinetic work.Where did the gradients come from? Saying "it's just infinite bro" is retarded and doesn't stand up to basic logic. If causality isn't real then you are just living in lala land
>>539722445It's not my opinion because those things are God's law. Leftists think killing you is a good thing. That's their opinion. Who are you to tell someone their opinion is wrong?
>>539722565>those things are God's lawThey aren't. There isn't a single person in the universe that could tell you what the creator of reality has to say about literally anything.What they are is an agreement of reciprocation. You value my life and I'll value yours.
>>539722469>I don't care about how systems worktypical shitskin reply, if you ignore how a thing works you can never understand why it exists.your assumption that everything requires a first cause actor is a relic of Newtonian jew thinking.in our plasma universe that we live in structure emerges from electromagnetic gradients inherent in ionized matter.no need for a jew creator god when you have fundamental forces constantly driven by cosmic electrical currents.>Where did the gradients come from?charged particles move along Birkeland currents.the energy flows from high to low potential naturally, no starting hand from a jew god required, just physics doing its thing for eternity.>If causality isn't real then you are just living in lala landcausality is very real tho but you are just looking at the wrong cause.you are looking for a jew deity to pull the trigger but I'm talking about charge, current, and entropy.
>>539722565Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs.
>>539722775>There isn't a single person in the universe that could tell you what the creator of reality has to say about literally anything.That's what the Bible is for anon. Deism is very spiritually and intellectually lazy. >What they are is an agreement of reciprocation.who says I agreed to that? That's just your personal opinion.
>>539722433Sorry anonie, I just cant take seriously someone who unironically claims you can determine human morality by watching boiling water. Its pure schizo nonsense, but im sure it makes sense to you.
>>539722877>typical shitskin reply,nope. You're just answering the wrong question>charged particles move along Birkeland currents.where did they come from?>causality is very real thoThen why do you believe in uncaused causes?I'm not even arguing for christianity with you, I'm arguing against materialism.
>>539718595>By what authority are you saying this, exactly?Divine authority? Same as yours; none at all.It's not a debate between taking the "objective" morality of religion or deliberately choosing relative morality outside of it. The point is that there is no objective morality on offer at all. Merely claiming your morality is objective does not make it so.No religion in history has ever gotten everyone to agree on one comprehensive set of morals in all places at all times for all people. What's supposedly being offered by the religious has never been delivered. Religions generally can't even keep their own adherents from splitting into competing moralities, whether that's the 40,000 flavors of Christian, Sunni or Shia Islam, Reform or Orthodox Judaism, the many varieties of Buddhism or different schools of Hinduism, etc etc. The only religions that avoid these effects are the ones so small that they never have enough bodies to split; and they obviously are even further from applying to all people in all places at all times than the major religions are.In actual reality, the "objective" moralities of religion have always behaved as though they were relativistic, subjective moralities that apply only to the people who can be convinced, one way or the other, and then only so far as the religion has material, physical power to enforce its will.The entire objective/subjective morality "debate" is a thin premise for a service that religion swears only religion can provide, even though it's a service that has never been rendered even once in human history.We operate from within relativistic morality because that is all there has ever been or ever will be. Claims otherwise are just marketing from clerics.
>>539720293>won't state beliefsEvery time>>539721398>nigger>worrying about an external forceLOL>>539722062
>>539718595Right and wrong is fundamentally an opinion. And that would be equally true even if god existed. Its just his opinion.
>>539718595How is it that you people claim, "God is perfectly good," yet every time something terrible happens you say, "God has His reasons"? By what authority are you saying this, exactly? Do you not understand? The only thing we have ever observed making moral judgments is the human mind. You say, "God is good," yet whenever His actions would be called evil if done by a human, you simply redefine them as good. How can that remain?Do you still not understand? If good is whatever God does, then "good" has no meaning beyond "God did it." If drowning children, commanding genocide, or condemning people for disbelief become good simply because God wills them, then morality is not objective; it is obedience. You say morality comes from God, but all we ever see is people interpreting what they think God wants and calling it moral.Listen and see. Hear and understand what I am telling you: what you are advocating is not objective morality but divine preference. Someone who rejects your God can still explain morality through empathy, reason, cooperation, and the shared experience of conscious beings. You, however, must explain why an act would be evil if committed by anyone else but becomes holy the moment you attribute it to God. Unless you answer that question, your appeal to objective morality condemns itself before it condemns anyone else.
>>539720158If a creation is bad, whose fault is it, the creator, or the creation? Also, even if you accept the argument that its our fault, god could still nudge things towards not being literal hell on earth. No loving creator would let his creations suffer to this degree. I can only conclude that if god exists, he desires his creations to suffer.
>>539721786You believe that YHWH is uncaused cause and morals are just opinion, retard. And that's why we need to enforce the valuable ones
>>539722565Would you follow this command if YHWH gave it to you?
>>539723029Read nigga, read
>>539723478>>539723620God is what is. What Is is the Truth, and Jesus came to reveal that Truth. He came to reveal what Is. If you want to know what God is, look at what Jesus is. Anyone who has seen the Son has seen the Father. The Father is good. The Father is what Is. Sin is what is not, and Satan is the father of what is not. What is not is not something new but a distortion of what Is. Satan does not create; he distorts and destroys.The greatest lie is not the lie that is the opposite of Truth. The greatest lie is the Truth viewed through a distorted lens. That is why it is said, "The eye is the lamp of the body. If your eyes are healthy, your whole body will be full of light. But if your eyes are unhealthy, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light within you is darkness, how great is that darkness!"The healthy eye says, "What Is? Let me understand, and I will form myself according to that." The unhealthy eye says, "What do I want?" and "How should it be?" and "What benefits me?" But Truth does not care about any one of those things. Truth is what Is when you strip those away and look at reality through healthy eyes.The Father is the one standing in front of the mirror; the image in the mirror is Him, but He is not the image in the mirror. So it is with the Father and the Son. The Father made Himself known through the Son. Or again, it is like the sun and the moon: if you look at the sun, you will become blind, but by looking at the moon, you are seeing the sun's light. The moon's light is not its own; the light belongs to the sun, and by looking at the moon, you are able to receive it. So does the Son make the invisible Father known to you. This is why "I and the Father are one" and "The Father is greater than I" are both true.
>>539718595
>>539718595>How is it that you people claim, "There is no God," yet you turn to someone and say, "You ought not to do this!"Because I will shoot you if you do, lol!>By what authority are you saying this, exactly?By my own authority.
>>539718595I AM GOD and OP is a faggot. I hate faggots so I made a deep hole for them.Thank you for your attention to this matter. Greater Old Divinity.
I'm simply not interested in any foreign semetic desert shit at all. Sorry.
>>539723800I believe I don't really know how the realm outside of the material universe works. That question very well could be invalid since logic is for the material realm>>539723921If I literally heard the voice of God say this to me then I would. You have murderous fantasies don't act like you're a good little boy who would never hurt a fly. >>539724002Doesn't change that without an authority morals are just made up opinions
>>539724113Might makes right is the peak of just having an opinion.
>>539718595God is real but the Christian myth of Eden is faggotpilled cuck shit designed to make you troon out and faciliate communism. If you teach people that every time they can't fulfill their random whims isn't their own fault but the result of the world somehow being broken, it trains them to externalize their own fucked up intrusive thoughts as normal and insist the world is what is broken, not themselves.Cucks cling to the idea that good is the default and evil is a perversion of good, but you have to be willfully ignorant to look at the world and argue the opposite isn't the case. Peace is not the default, violence is, and peace is a direct violation of the natural, violent, default nature of the world. Poverty is normal, wealth is something man imposes. Civilization is not the default, chaos is, man create's civilization inspite of the the world, not because muh sky rabbi made it the default. This is why christcuck countries are the only ones to experience organic woke social movements. Christians believe in retarded shit like human dignity and empathy for foreigners because of some universalist hogwash about us 'all being God's children." Christians naïvely looked around at their fellow Christian whites, saw civilization was great, and retardedly extrapolated since everyone they had ever met was generally well adjusted and thought the same way, that what they observed must be the human default. Christians assumed that white Christian thinking was universal and default rather than something drilled into them from birth and genetically tied to being European, which is why they are so blindsided the moment they open their borders and see just how savage and animalistic a default human actually is. Social progress as 'a thing' in the way that technological progress is a thing is literally Jewish bullshit. It's Tikkun Olam repackaged for goyim. It has 0 basis in reality.
>>539724613Let me tell you what happened in Eden: as it was, they lived according to What Is, and What Is provided for them according to their needs. After being tempted by the serpent, the woman did not ask, "What Is?" She asked, "What do I want?" and took a bite. This is the fall: that the self sits on the throne of the judge and says, "I am like the Most High." That is why the serpent said, "You will be like God." You will indeed be like God, but you will not partake in What Is. To partake in What Is, the self must die. This is why Jesus said, "Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect." You are called to be the image that you were created to be. As it is in this World, you will fall many times; that is why the Son entered the World, so that when you fall, you should not be discouraged, but have faith in Him, get back up, and strive to become part of What Is. This is repentance: that you turn and return to What Is. God is merciful to those who are merciful, and He loves those who love Him, as it is said, "With the measure you use, it will be measured to you." Therefore, apply the same measure to yourself and to others, and let that measure be according to What Is.
UNCLE SAM HATES JESUS https://youtu.be/tGJEN8b1YWs
atheists are way more fun when they are intellectuals. Drop the gay emotional whining, I don't know why they always eventually get there.
Evolution is “the silliest religion”.>its science. It is, it is! Idiots.
>>539724696You niggas forgot the parts where1. Women are fucking animated talking ribs and fuck everything up with manipulation and appealing to simp energy.2. Lilith fucked the snake and sired the inpure bloodlines.Sky rabbi bullshit. The real, one true, God, doesn't give a flying fuck about the untermensch races. He bred one race, one people, born of Adam's linage. How salvation is to be distributed is none of your fucking business unless you are of white European heritage, everyone else has some other shit going on and whether they all are bound for Sheol or some few might be worthy of salvation ain't none of my fucking business. What I do know is that man is not equal by any stretch of the imagination nor was he ever supposed to be. Fuck the foreign, fuck the mixing of blood. White Christians need to stfu and accept just because their own fellow white Christians are alright doesn't mean the abhorrents in Africa or Judea are people in the same way we are. The world was built to beat pussies into submission for being pussies and reward the strong for being strong and it was designed that way not through evil taint of Nakhash but through the divine will of God the Father. Eden isn't the story of Adam and Eve fucking up the Garden of Eden and letting sin into the world. Lucifer didn't have the power to do that, ever. No, what Adam and Eve did was fuck up their own PERCEPTION of the world. They lost the ability to enjoy God's creation and how what we call imperfections are there for a reason. Pain is good. Go to NigTok and find me fags who think pain doesn't need to exist and you'll find they are all troons, fags, communists, or some other breed of degenerate.When atheist cite the paradox of evil, even the the most cucked Christians recognize it's for sake of the lesson. You get so close to the answer, but never extrapolate from it. The answer is you shouldn't prey for ease, but to be strong enough to face down life's struggles. Bring on the challenge.
>>539725099Somehow i don't think you understand evolution and genetics
>>539724588Might makes right literally cannot be an opinion, it's just pointing at the result and siding with objective reality. It's ironically the most 'trust the science' perspective anyone can have. To argue against might making right is to argue other criteria that cannot be directly observed and have zero relation to cause-and-effect are worth considering. To say might doesn't make right is basically to argue cause-and-effect shouldn't exist, no different than arguing water shouldn't boil at 100°C. Nigga it will boil at that temperature, arguing it shouldn't is just straight up delusional. If winning doesn't make you correct then how the fuck did you win? By what measureable criteria were you wrong?
>>539725847ok so if trannies killed a million people and "proved" their ideas would you accept it with a smile on your face?
>>539725391>Lilith fucked the snake and sired the inpure bloodlinesWhich fanfic you get that from?
>>539726012This screams of 'pick the blue button' mentality.Nigga if the genocided million group is in such a sorry state that it just sits by and lets that shit happen then yes, unironically, the million would all be massive fucking retards who deserve to die. Stop your mental gymnastics and think for two fucking seconds what a trannoid inflicted genocide like that would require from everyone else. What would be the point in joining with the million? To die with them? Better that they die, fucktards that they are. They'd have to be dumb goycattle who trusted the plan or something equally retarded inhibiting real opposition for that to even happen, in which case, better off for thr opposition.You'll find this issue arises in every scenario you cam imagine. To make the winner unsympathetic, you need to make the loser even less sympathetic.War is a game, life is a game. To lose means you played the game badly, period. To lose to trannies means you basically threw the game on purpose, likely in pursuit of some gayass inverifiable 'higher moral'. Well get fucked, your higher morals got a million killed, dumbfucks.
>>539726345Different anon but there are literally a dozen different variations of Lilith and/or Eve fucking Satan and conceiving inpure bloodline readings of Genesis depending on the translation. KJV of Genesis 3:15 for instance gives us this gem.>And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.It's one interpretation to describe everything from blacks to jeets to kikes to all non-whites.
God existing, or not, changes nothing.
>>539719054The point went over your head you dumb nigger. Here:A modus ponens is a logical structural statement of the form:If X then Y. X is true, thus Y is true. In other words when X is true, Y is true (this is not necessarily the case backwards I.e. if Y is true , X doesn’t have to be true) So what you just did was a logical fallacy. You said “If there exists order then it is good.” But you have to PROOVE this statement is true first. Why is order good? It may seem obvious to you but it does not logically follow. Leftists make this mistake all the time “if it’s empathetic then it is good” then they let millions of niggers into their country (like you) and call it empathetic. But it does not follow. So the fallacy is saying X is a fact therefore it is good. The statement “apples are red” is a fact statement. But does “red apples are therefore good” follow? No! It works for any fact statement “niggers immigrate to my country therefore this is good” Make no sense, right? So you can’t derive an “ought” from an “is”. It doesn’t matter how hard you try to give more facts (order is beautiful, thermodynamics exists, you are a dumb nigger) it will never give you moral insight.
>>539718595>"You ought not to do this!" By what authority are you saying this, exactly?by the authority of violence. im going to kill you OP.
>>539723060>"physics is nonsense"shitskin af>>539723177>where did they come from?they arise from charge separation within plasma driven by temperature and pressure gradients inherent in ionized gases.just as a battery doesn't need a foreskin eating jew God to create current. just two dissimilar materials or a chemical reaction creating a potential difference. the cosmos uses its massive electromagnetic potentials to drive these currents.>Then why do you believe in uncaused causes?because I don't believe in uncaused causes you silly nigger.you clearly dont understand what a thermodynamic gradient is.a system moves from high potential to low potential because that is the path of least resistance.the cause is the existence of the gradient itself which is maintained by the continuous influx of energy through the system.causality is an infinite loop/flow and not just a single starting domino.>I'm arguing against materialismyour alternative to my "materialism" is a magical non physical jew entity that ignores the laws of physics to grant wishes, basically your model is much more complicated and less efficient than mine.I am describing a universe where everything, from the smallest atom to the largest galaxy filament is part of one massive, interconnected electrical circuit.for some reason shitskins cant grasp these simple concepts.
>>539718595sounds like a load of philosowank to meoughts can be derived from functioning patternsif the machine functions i'll keep it, if no machine can be built if no effect can be measured it goes back into the pile of maybes and nos
>>539718595>How is it that you people claim, "There is no God," yet you turn to someone and say, "You ought not to do this!" Because im a man of myself you little midget bitch. If I dont like something I say it. Im not on this Planet to obey you little cunt sissy behaviors.People CAN have own opinions you know nigger. No god needed but the own that is yourself.
>>539727073>you can’t derive an ought from an isthat is only true for qualitative aesthetics (like your opinion on red apples).but for systemic complexity "oughts" are functional imperatives.a cell oughts to maintain homeostasis, a society oughts to cooperate otherwise they succumb to entropic decay. so morality is the emergent result of complex organisms optimizing their interactions with energy and information to maximize survivability.and like the dumb nigger you are you are trying to use Human logic to ignore thermodynamic necessity. typical shitskin brain mistake right there.>It will never give you moral insightactually on the contrary, physics provides the boundaries for what is possible.logic tells us how things relate, thermodynamics tells us why they must stay organized to exist at all.and all you did is just stating that because colors and feelings are subjective, the underlying laws of reality are optional.thats like saying because my opinions about pizza are subjective, electricity is just a suggestion.absolutely ridiculous shitskin way of thinking.not that I expect much from some retard thats missing a foreskin but cmon man they didnt lobotomize you, right?
>>539726526lol you are a weak fag begging for oppression. If everyone thought like you then some group would easily come to power because resisting is too hard and scary for you
>>539727343>physics is nonsenseNo it isnt. It just has zero connection to human morality, despite you really wanting it to be connected. But sure, go ahead and tell me whats the connection between boiling water and the morality of me thinking you are retarded.
>>539728796not my problem you are retarded and a pajeet. pajeets cant grasp physics or how reality works. thats why your people get crushed or electrocuted all the time.
>>539727973Why is entropic decay bad? In your world view it nothing matter. Why use thermodynamics as a basis for morality? What if I want to be god king and kill you and rape your family? I can just say and do whatever I want and kill your nigger theory about thermodynamics and poof your whole moral system is gone—cause I killed you. I didn’t say colors are subjective. You can categorize all sentences into facts (is) and ought (moral statements). All you give are facts and then somehow derive an ought, without logically proving it. Germans were smart before niggers like you poisoned their blood
>>539723029>That's what the Bible is for anonLmao imagine believing anything in there as fact. I don't care for your jewish fairy tales. I do wanna check out Ezekiel some time, though. I hear it's got some wild shit going on in it.>who says I agreed to that?You're implying you had a choice. The Golden Rule is so ingrained by biology that even single-celled bacteria participate in it, simply because it's the most efficient way to ensure one's genes make it to future generations.
>>539724516If you dont pray to Yaweh, youre a jew
what I don't understand about this argument is what you believe exactly, do you believe morality = what is written in the bible. But then, how do you explain people not killing each others en masse before christianity, or all the people who aren't christians and still live peacefully. Or do you believe that morality exists because there is a higher being, and you happen to believe that it is the christian god. But then, if morality exists outside of books, then it is part of creation, part of the universe. And therefore, why do you need to believe in god, if you just have to experience the world to find a meaning in having a sense of morality?Also, you attack atheism as if they have no morals, yet, just like everyone else on the earth, the vast majority of people live in relative peace with each others. And among believers, their sense of morality vary widely from one religion to the other.
>>539720158your god has no utility
>>539730606"You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred?"The same way the gift needs the altar to make it sacred, your good acts count to nothing if there is nothing that grounds them.
>>539730861don't you feel joy for doing something good ? for seeing the smile of a loved one ? for knowing you helped out a stranger ? don't you feel guilt when hurting a person you care about ? don't you feel remorse when you're cruel ?if those sentiments do not exist outside of religion, how do you explain people behaved in civilized societies millenia before religions, especially those that we know, were established?
>>539729732>some brainlet tier argumentyour ability to kill people doesn't disprove my theory and it just illustrates how life must interact with its environment to stave off disorder.when you die you go from high complexity/low entropy to low complexity/high entropy.that transition, the very definition of entropy, is exactly what defines whether a biological state is "good" (viable) or "bad" (obsolete).>Germans were smart before niggers like you poisoned their bloodthat was a funny flex for some shitskin who clearly has no idea how thermodynamics works and is likely a nigger himself.you literally think complexity comes from luck or divine intervention of a foreskin eating jew god lmao, only shitskin morons believe this because they cant figure out how anything works.
>>539730150>YawehLiterally can't even spell it. Disregarded
>>539731264Answer me this: How do you know thermodynamics is the origin of “good”? I need the epistemic source. Is it from your senses? Is it from an authority? Is it from logic? How do you know what you know?
>>539718595I dunno i have a thing called "common sense" and i can also extrapolate things quite easily.
>>539731500>How do you know thermodynamics is the origin of ”good“? Is it from my senses? An authority? Logic?empirical observation. literally every measurable system in the known universe, from galactic filaments of plasma to the synapses in your tiny nigger brain shows that structure only exists because it manages energy flux against entropic decay. so thermodynamics is the observable mechanism that allows the very concept of existence to occur.no jew god is needed for any of this.>How do you know what you know?by observing the consistency of causal relationships, something nigger people or other shitskin browns cant figure out apparently. like look around nigger, the universe doesnt care if you trust your senses or not, its physics remain invariant whether you believe in them, hate them or try to use them as a threat in a debate you clearly cannot win.so you ask how I know morality comes from order: because without the ability to maintain low entropy (Order), no information processing entity (Life) could exist long enough to even formulate the question "What is good?".is that clear enough or do I need to simplify it further?
>>539718595problem with these arguments isn't necessarily that you are wrong on the 'ought' point, but that the purported religious solutions are literally just kicking the can a little far ahead and pretending it solves it>on what authorityon what authority should one believe X visible church/sect/group/ideology/etc... surpassed the epistemological gap? that's the kicking the can a little ahead, even if one were to grant you moral realism the question immediately falls on 'how do you know it' and then you are back to square one, ask 10 people and they'll name 10 different organizations toooooootally not competing for control of their minds who they consider hold the bridge over the aforementioned gap and will fight you for it, ridiculous
>>539731081I am not saying those things are not real. That is exactly my point: they are real, and they do matter. But the reason they matter is because they are grounded in the nature of God. You cannot reject the altar and still claim that the gift is sacred. How can the gift be sacred if you have removed the altar that makes it sacred?As I said, if the world is just a blind process, the experience of right and wrong would still exist, but why should that right or wrong matter? If there is nothing that grounds them, it objectively does not matter what you do. To the universe, murder and love and mercy and generosity and justice just "are." They are not real concepts grounded in something real.You cannot have the gift be sacred without the altar. What is a law without judgement? It is not a law but a suggestion. If there is no one to judge, there is no judgement. And if there is no judgement, there is nothing that separates murder from love.Again, you do not do good because you fear judgement. Judgement grounds your good acts. Judgement is what makes a law legitimate, and through this your acts have a grounding.
>>539731264The bigger the universe the more efficient it is.
>>539720158>I baked this bread knowing it would be disgusting, but it's not my fault. I could have changed the ingredients and made it delicious, but it's still not my fault. It's the flour's fault for this bread being disgusting.
if you do something bad against someone else that means they can do that against you. there is not objective moral right/wrong, but we can attach these definitions to things that result in seemingly good or negative outcomes.
>>539718595HAIL ZEVZ!
>>539718595>By what authority are you saying this, exactly?The golden rule
>>539719054Simple as.
>>539731897If you concentrate the entire mass of our universe its schwartzschildradius is about its actual size.Trhat is really efficient.
>>539718595>by what authorityMine. Literally the only one that matters.
>>539732167https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ahha3Cqe_fk
>>539719054>morals is an emergent biological byproduct of complex organisms trying to maximize survivalExactly this
>>539718595So you need an authority to tell you what to do? That’s why we call you a sheep in the flock.
>>539730085Just an opinion. I don't need to care about anything getting to future generations
>>539731894the answer to your argument is simply scope. Yes, for the universe, murder and love and mercy are nothing, but for me as a human being, it means something. And it only means something at my own perspective. Do you torture yourself about eating meat ? yet the meat you eat, it's a living being, it's a mother, it's a child, it's a brother or sister. Doesn't that animal scream in pain if you butcher it ? Does the herd not flee in fear ? yet you eat that food without questioning yourself too much, because from your perspective, love and murder is more important for human being than it is for animals. And for other people, they consider it essential and refuse to eat any meat. Even some religions consider animals sacred and refuse to eat them.In the end, morality isn't absolute, but it doesn't mean it doesn't exist, or that there aren't some elements we can all agree on. Even if they don't have a meaning at the scope of the universe, they can have a meaning at the scope of a relationship, of a society, of a planet.
>>539731897>>539732167efficient at what? becoming a cold dead equilibrium state where nothing ever happens?I guess if your only goal in life is to collapse into a static point of nothingness then sure congratulations on being "efficient."actual efficiency means maintaining structure, processing information and driving complexity.a collapsing singularity is the LEAST efficient thing possible and thats why it doesnt exist.also>implying black holes/dark matter exists and isnt just jew retardation
>>539720855this>if no God why not do bad thing?because anyone who's not a drooling retard can form morality on their own just by existing.>impacts and punctures fucking hurtI won't do that to someone else except to protect me and mine.>some nigger stole from me, I was gonna buy foodI won't steal from people because I actually have the capacity for empathy.etc.if you needed a book to tell you "unjustified murder is bad" you're a monkey, but at least now you know, so it's not like atheist faggots are right when they sperg on feggit about>all religions are bad in every way
Good thread, anons in here give me hope
>>539718595Those are jews working you up, tard.They might say they're atheists but then they start parroting talmudic talking point and using rabbinic history instead of independent roman/2nd temple jewish history.Q: What do you call an evangelical believing in modern day Israel as a biblical entity or that they can force Christ's return through their conduct?A: A Jew
re talking about niggers not atheists
>>539718595There is no such thing as an atheist, they are all either very confused/deceived pagans or deceivers/liars themselves.Every man worships a god, but what they all have in common is that they hate the God who created them.
>>539733856>There is no such thing as an atheistMy lack of belief in God or gods says otherwise >Every man worships a god,I do not>they hate the God who created them.I don't hate things that don't exist. That's silly
>>539734009>Let me show you how hard I've deluded myself and deceived the people around me.Noted.
>>539733856I am in awe of creation, and have great respect for what might appear to be intelligent design to me based on my human perception. But I don't feel like you guys have empirical proof of your claims. I think you've been really good at disguising pilpul as proof, but the whole thing is foundationally wrong and you just cling to it for crumbs of power from the jews table like a hungry dog.
>>539734124You're welcome to your personal feelings and opinions but, no need to get pissy because I don't believe in them :^)
>>539734255>pagan pilpulYou and those "jews" will share hellfire together if you are not saved by God.>>539734298you can lie to yourself and the others pagans, you can't lie to Christians however.
>>539718595>By what authority are you saying this, exactly?Our tribal mindset and beneficial evolutionary traits. People are pack animals and don't want bad apples spoiling the barrel. It's simply common sense
>>539718595There is no ought. You are a rock tumbling down a hill. Everything you do, every thought you have is a thermodynamic necessity.
>>539734379>you can lie to yourselfAbout what? >you can't lie to Christians however.I don't need too, you lot do it to each other and better than anyone else could, lmao
>>539734379>You and those "jews" will share hellfire togetherInteresting choice of words. I trust my judgement, not yours.
>>539729400And yet you cant explain it, seems to me you dont even understand the schizo nonsense you are trying to articulate. You are not very bright, are you?
>>539734748>And yet you cant explain itI literally explained it like 50 times already and no matter how much more I repeat myself you will still not be able to grasp it.this is because you are a retarded pajeet who cant read.
>>539718595In a Godless world actions can still have value simply because it is you who is doing them. An expression of vital force.
>>539721296>The only real thing that matters in the atheist world when it comes to morality is "might makes right""Might" and "right" are subjective. What one athiest considers to he "might and right" will vary from another atheist.And like all moral judgments, context matters
>>539734814Buddy, just because you observed how water boils doesn't mean you can apply the same pattern to morality. You can yap about thermodynamics all you want, but that doesn't mean the same patterns translate to human morality. There is zero relation there. How the fuck is something merely physical going to explain the metaphysical? You are applying something merely physical and then making this unhinged claim that it explains metaphysics for some reason. At best you are proposing some sort of "appeal to nature" thats all your retarded argument hinges upon. Its like arguing that because chimps fuck each other in the asses then that makes it okay for you to get fucked in the ass too. Its the same logic. As I said you are not smart as you think you are. But keep yapping about thermodynanics, im sure that will help you land a coherent argument some day. Retard.
Your congregation is already tax free you fucking asshole
>>539718595This doesn't matter. None of this matters. No matter how hard you question why anything exists, it is an observable fact that it does, and the same can't be said for god or dragons or fairies or any other entity someone insists is real. Waxing poetic and speaking in metaphors doesn't bring any of that to life either. We can sit around and speculate about the what ifs and what might bes, but that's not what you're on about, is it? You want to invoke the abstract perennial human experience and then slide in your particular cultural historical solution like the secrets of the universe are a multiple choice exam. They're not. And whatever the actual answer is, we are entirely justified not to believe it. I don't need faith to believe in the chair I'm sitting on. I'm sitting on it. And sure, lots of people believe in other silly things. Scientific academia is shit show right now. But increasing my skepticism in my area doesn't magically mean I have faith in another. It simply increases my skepticism overall.
>>539735333>How the fuck is something merely physical going to explain the metaphysical?I can explain to you how I want to build a desk.The idea is metaphysical Also, it takes a physical brain to understand, and make up metaphysical ideas etc
>>539735333>How the fuck is something merely physical going to explain the metaphysical?your biggest mistake is thinking they are separate things, meanwhile the metaphysics IS the physics, just organized into enough complex patterns for you to throw a jeet tantrum about them.>At best you are proposing an appeal to nature...no and your chimp ass fucking is a retarded analogy because you are confusing behavior with principle.and clearly you cant read good because I'm not saying "if it happens in nature, it's morally right" (which would be a weak appeal to nature).I am saying Physics dictate what behavior is NECESSARY for survival.>im sure that will help you land a coherent argument somedayI didn't need "someday" nigger. I landed it ages ago.
>>539734410No. We have the freedom to make counterintuitive and even self-destructive choices. Garbage in, garbage out; we shape our realities even as we are shaped by them. The powers of abstraction and imagination, the ability to ask "what if" is what sets us above lesser creatures.
>>539734410>You are a rock tumbling down a hill.no we are highly organized, non equilibrium systems capable of directed movement through the environment, not rocks.>>539736156>We have the freedom to make counterintuitive and even self-destructive choices.there is no such thing as escaping physics, your capacity for abstraction, imagination and even self destruction is simply the result of sophisticated information processing required to navigate environmental gradients.also we live in a deterministic universe where complexity allows for agency, it arises out of it.
>>539735830Buddy, science only explains the how, its just a tool using for measuring things. It wont ever give an "ought" by design. You may think it does, but it doesnt. The "oughts" you could possibly distill from it will always differ from the oughts somebody else sees from the same data, why would your subjective "oughts" be the right ones from all the possible oughts someone could take from looking at thermodynamics? You literally have no way of knowing except by the smell of your own farts. Its hilarious how oblivious you are to all of this.
its not that there is no god, its just that there is no jewish god is all.so when you see people there is no 'god', what 99% of them are saying is there is no jewish god. aside from the handful of cryptojewish celebrity atheists who popularized the concept of atheism, youll mostly find neoatheists. people who will say there is no [jewish] god, but when asked of aristotle's immovable mover, or plato's intelligent designing monad, thats totally fine.its just the jewish part that most people have a problem with. its retarded.
>>539718595Those who seek shall find. I was an atheist for 30 years, I just started seeking and sincerely asking and he did end up revealing himself to me. It is one of those things where you have to experience it for the evidence, my testimony can't prove anything to people who don't believe, it only makes sense to those who have also experienced it. All I will say is stay humble, seek truth, truth above all costs, with humility and you will probably find what you're looking for. It is said most will not though, most will perish, even finding the truth isn't enough, you then have to react to it and reshape yourself which is easier said than done. Anyway enjoy the old borderline schizo rantings of an aspiring boomer. I used to look at posts like this as if they were useless garbage, they mostly are but I owe you my testimony at the least.
