>>540131289
you wrote a full wall of theological cope just to reframe your real-world uselessness and economic failure as a divine virtue

real christcuck right here anons

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>>540131658
An ‘anon’ is a-non entity when we should identify with Christ. You are simply a liar.
https://youtu.be/-vztk9fqGng?is=xLvuEFDwK9uWpKxg

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>>540132121
The west was allowed to be destroyed Zionist-Masonic forces because white people chose Mammon over their own kind. Liar.

>>540131658
>>540132121
Stop looking for beauty in things that die. Realize it is not attached to those things. I was once like this too. god will provide for you when you open your heart but by then money will be nothing to you.

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>>540132121
Christianity predates judaism by almost 500 years.
judaism was created in rejection of Christ.

>>540132562
AI Overview That premise is incorrect; Judaism actually predates Christianity by more than a thousand years, originating in the Bronze Age Middle East, whereas Christianity began in the 1st century CE as an offshoot of Second Temple Judaism.

>>540131289
Can you explain why God failed to create Adam and Eve properly? Why make them in such a way that they failed to make the right choice?

>>540132394
the ancient principle of non-attachment offers profound mental freedom, but stripping away the dogma means using that clarity to optimize real-world human flourishing rather than passively waiting for divine intervention

it translates to achieving complete material self-sufficiency so you never become a burden, while using your resulting surplus stability to generate a measurable net positive for everyone around you

>>540131289
>that picrel
Rudolf Steiner was a faggot. His idea of Ahriman, Lucifer and Jesus was nothing but a poor man's gnosticism additionally dumbed down for retarded Germans. If you take it seriously you can be only wrong.

>>540132807
you can be the most perfect angel and still fall if God doesnt uphold you.

>>540131289
>or they choose to give it all up to god and god then allows them to have material things
you need to kys

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>>540132929
Shots fired.

>>540132976
You haven't answered my questions at all...

>>540133264
if Adam and Eve were perfect then there would be no need for God.
only God is perfectly good and holy.

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>>540132562
Trans-semite larpers only exist online. You'll be kicked out of every church for this heretical view.

John 4:22

"You worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews"

>>540133391
So he deliberately made them worse than he could have, worse than him... because?
What was wrong with them that they failed to make the right choice?

>>540132834
Flourishing in this world comes if we turn our eyes away from the ground and away from the sky and towards the present moment. If you listen to the spirit and it has chosen wealth will come to you; not by inaction but it will show the necessary action.
>>540132929
No. The deception is on needs all these rituals and initiations instead of seeking Christ and following his guidance.
>>540133030
Explain why? Because I don’t love money. I don’t hate you.

>>540131289
pro-immigration, anti-white religion.
Also, you're just becoming an npc that is led by God. that's the problem.

>>540133831
the fuck are you talking about? Adam and Eve were the perfect humans.
>What was wrong with them that they failed to make the right choice?
they had no context. they didnt know what death is or any concept of it.

>>540134086
>Adam and Eve were the perfect humans.
And yet they failed to make the right choice. That doesn't sound very perfect to me. What was wrong with them that they failed to make the right choice?
>they had no context. they didn't know what death is or any concept of it.
Was this their fault? Why was this knowledge withheld from them?

>>540134254
>Why was this knowledge withheld from them?
it was not, God told them outright. why ask stupid questions if you can read up on it yourself?

>>540134346
>it was not, God told them outright
>>540134086
>they had no context. they didnt know what death is or any concept of it.
So why did they fail to make the right choice? What was wrong with them?

>>540134444
read it for yourself ffs.
they were lied to. the same way humanity today is lied to and 99.9% fall for it.

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>>540134444
I'm a simple man
I see numbers, I check them

Why were they created in such a way that they failed to make the right choice, and not in such a way that they wouldn't fail to make the right choice? Why is one OK and the other one not?
>>540134616
>read it for yourself ffs.
I did, it doesn't make any sense. It's written in such a way that it is impossible to know EXACTLY what was meant. I can't understand anything. That's why i'm asking.
>they were lied to. the same way humanity today is lied to and 99.9% fall for it.
Lied to by whom exactly? Why were they created so stupid that they failed to recognize that they were lied to? Why weren't they created wise enough so that they wouldn't have failed?

You lot talk a lot about choices and so called free will. I have a lot of questions about that also. And about pain and suffering. Nothing makes sense.

>>540134921
>Lied to by whom exactly?
satan
>Why were they created so stupid that they failed to recognize that they were lied to?
the fruit looked good for food, was a delight to the eyes and could make one wise.
they fell for the low hanging fruit. its easy, looks good from the outside and gives one pride in themselves.
ie all the superficial stuff humans fall for in this day and age, easy comfy lives of abundance but without any good substance. false teachings that give false security etc.
the same shit that played out in the garden plays out in reality over and over again to deceive people not to seek God and obey him alone.

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>>540131289
No thanks. (((Desert Manual))) has done nothing but justify death, rape, and murder for thousands of years.
I'll stick to my Pandeisim, Taoisim, and Agnosticism thank you very much.
Don't worry I don't doubt that Jesus was a nice guy, he is just no less holy than the rest of us. We are all children of god.He just happened to be schizophrenic and nice in a time when being a murderous scumbag was the norm and it developed him a cult following. Same goes for any other "prophets". We don't need a boon tainted by mortal hands or another person to tell us the intrinsic will of god/the universe that is built into all of us.

>>540135196
>satan
How come? Why wasn't this prevented?
>the fruit looked good for food, was a delight to the eyes and could make one wise.
Who made it in such a way? Why wasn't it made not to look good for food if it wasn't? Why the deception? Why was this allowed to happen? Did God know this was going to happen, and still did it?
>they fell for the low hanging fruit. its easy, looks good from the outside and gives one pride in themselves.
So why create fruit like that in the first place? Why all the deception? Couldn't God create the fruit without the use of deception, so that it would be immediately obvious that the fruit isn't good? Why created bad fruit anyway? It doesn't make any sense.

>>540132394
jesus died

>>540135864
I just gave you a real world application of the fruit in modern times. I wont explain further. its pointless.

>>540135976
> I just gave you a real world application of the fruit in modern times
/board

>>540135864
>why isn't everything perfect all the time and i get everything i want all the time without exception, why can't god have made things just as i think they should be, if god didn't do that then god is fake because i literally don't get what i want at every second of every day

>>540135976
So what's the alternative? Why does God want us to feel bad? I thought he was good and he loves us. If you love someone, do you make them feel good or do you make them feel bad? If you love someone, do you protect them from suffering, or do you make them suffer?
Did God want Adam and Eve to fail, or did he want them to succeed? Does he want us to fail, or does he want us to succeed?

>>540136146
Why does God want to hurt us? Why do you want to hurt others? You seem very invested in hurting others, as does God. Why the hate?

>>540136177
did Jesus suffer? did the apostles suffer? did all the saints suffer?
if God choses you in this world you will suffer because satan is the ruler of this age and people rather follow him.
our promise is in the eternal kingdom of God that is to come.

>>540131289
>Christ is the answer
indeed
the question is
what is the play kikes created to keep other races forever as submissive slaves following jewish culture, traditions and laws ?

There is no reason to hurt anyone. It's pretty simple:
If an action you are about to do will result in somebody, you or anyone else, in pain or suffering, then it is not the right action to do. Another, better action, such that it does not result in someone, you or anyone else, in pain or suffering, should be found and done. Only such actions should be done. No action that results in somebody in pain or suffering, can be called good. Only such actions that don't result in pain and suffering can be called good.

>>540136177
you realize you're trying to reconcile the logic of a god, as if you're on the same level? you're petulantly demanding answers that you could not possibly even fathom were they given to you. God is not a person, and does not need you to logically reconcile him for him to exist. he doesn't have to agree with you or explain anything. just because existence isn't made in the way that YOU think it should be does not mean that a creator can't possibly exist. it's an extremely arrogant and midwit line of thought that shows you haven't given any sincere thought to the matter whatsoever. you just seem like another butthurt anti religion fag with middle school arguments. i suggest you study existentialism, philosophy, theology and metaphysics before chiming in with extremely lazy minded takes

>>540136441
Based secluded vegetarian with no internet access.

>>540136288
>did Jesus suffer? did the apostles suffer? did all the saints suffer?
IDK you tell me, i'm guessing they did.
>if God choses you in this world you will suffer
OK then i hope God won't choose me. I don't want to suffer. Why does God want us to suffer? If you love someone, do you protect them from suffering, or do you make them suffer?
Help me understand, because it doesn't make sense.

>>540136441
again, you don't know that. if someone comes in to rape you and torture you and your family, then hurting someone is a positive. you don't understand that our existence runs on opposites. we cannot know good without evil. you can say, why did god make it that way then? who knows? it's a god. your logic is not needed as you are not the creator. extremely arrogant line of thinking

>>540136288
So it's OK to make people suffer?

>>540136243
you need to understand something
"Why" isn't part of your vocabulary when you address the Creator of everything that was, is and will be

>>540136574
just like anon said here >>540136459
God is unknowable to the human mind, his perfectly good and caring nature is expressed and made familiar to us in the person of Jesus Christ who did lie down his life for sinners to be forgiven.
dont confuse this temporal body of a mere eye blink of existence for the true eternal glory of God.

>Chrisitan
>4 chan enthusiast spreading half their life spreading hate and division on the internet.

choose one you fucking loser

>>540136592
So good is evil, and evil is good?

>>540135196
why did god created satan ?

did god know satan would lie to the humans ?
did god created satan on purpose to lie to the humans ?
did god created the humans knowing they would fall to the lies of satan, that he also created himself ?

why were his creations so flawed ?
were they not supposed to be his image ?

>>540136683
Why?

>>540136441
>nigger is raping my wife
>how can I solve this non violently

Make like a Canadian and apply for MAID, retard

>>540136748
because His power and knowledge are beyond anything you could ever conceptualize

>>540131289
You're not even a real christcuck, you're a low IQ incel who watched too much conspiratard youtube channels.

>>540136745
all answered in the bible.
Ezekiel 28

>>540131289

and it's not even money

it's masonic mammon cult depictions of money

>>540131289
Christ was a socialist jew. Nough said

>>540131289
>The reason people aren’t successful
not everyone can be. successful people are successful specifically because others are not. blame God for this dichotomy.

>>540136712
how can you know god is unknowable in the human mind ?
what part is unknownable ? because you seem to speak for him a lot
it seems that your concept of unknownable only applies when its convenient to silence those questioning the flaws of that stupid book
when its you parroting gods intentions through jewish lies, suddenly its not unknowable anymore

>>540131289
have sex, incel chud?

>>540136459
So you can't give an explanation? Are you saying i'm not supposed to understand and ask questions, i'm supposed to just be quiet and let myself be freely subjected to pain and suffering? You do understand that this sounds a bit childish?
>just shut up and take it
What's up with that? You say God loves us, but this doesn't make much sense to me...

>>540131289
Christians believe niggers go to heaven.

>>540136844
that doesnt answer shit

its a bunch of words kikes wrote larping as their god
only retards follow kike words

>>540136791
So why were we created in such a way? What's the takeaway? You were made stupid, and you are stupid. Huh?

hey cuck op. which christ are you talking about?

is it joshua from nazareth who believed in the hebrew god yahweh!!

>nice fairytale you got there

What compels an organization to spend vast amount of time, energy, and money over extended periods of many generations in secret in order to break other peoples' connections to god?

>>540131289
i don't even want money anymore.

I wish he could heal my daughter and get rid of my joint pain.

>>540136932
God thinks big time, he lays out things that will unravel hundreds or even thousands of years later.
we dont have the capacity for that. we dont even know what the next day will bring.
so be humble and thankful for all the bad stuff not happening to you on a daily basis.

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>>540131289
Christianity is not a political system. It's a guide toward salvation, towards living a fulfilling life. The societal implications are so far downstream from the philosophical trappings of the faith, but they are nonetheless willful and egalitarian. The fact that anti-Christian nu/pol/ sentiment on this board is so prevalent compared to other boards, the sharty, old pol, for example, is the best evidence of anti-Christianity astroturfed by those who seethe with hatred for the Christian West. The kikes have been attacking us since before Christ walked this Earth and they will continue well after every one of us is gone. There is a metaphysical battle for your human soul and your only ally in this life is that of the Lord who breathed life into your rapidly failing earthen vessel.

Repent, open your heart to the Lord, and humbly ask for guidance. Your life will immediately start getting better by the mere act of humbling yourself.

>>540131289
The question of course being "How do we keep jews in power until they literally exterminate humanity?"

>>540137045
> why were we created in such a way?
We were obviously created to ensure as many niggers go to heaven as humanly possible, hence mass migration being a poor substitute for offering niggers heaven on Earth until they die.

>>540136745
jesus fucking christ, these arguments are so elementary. i can't do it with you guys anymore. you seriously lack a capacity for imagination. i want you to know what you look like to me.

you look like a little child, asking a parent why the sky is blue, over and over, and expecting to completely understand the answer. these are not well thought out arguments. you are either being insincere, or you have never seriously thought about the nature of existence. you lack scope of sight. you are like a little kid demanding answers, and if you don't get the answers you want, you don't believe anything the adult says.

>>540137185
Why does god want to fill heaven with niggers?

>>540136771
>>nigger is raping my wife
Read again.
>>540136441
>If an action you are about to do will result in somebody, you or anyone else, in pain or suffering, then it is not the right action to do.
>then it is not the right action to do.
>Another, better action, such that it does not result in someone, you or anyone else, in pain or suffering, should be found and done.
The raping nigger wouldn't even exist in this case. Was i not clear?

>>540136985
not what i said at all. you can't hear answers because you've already decided in your mind what you know. it's what a woman or a child does. you can question all you want, but you don't get to demand answers. you sound like a little child angry at his parents. you are trying to logically reconcile existence as YOU see it. if you don't like the answer, then you shove your head in the sand. it's petulant behavior and no amount of answers you're going to receive here are going to help you. you are asking extremely simple minded rhetorical questions that you do not want an answer to, even when you're given it

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>>540132698
Conflating Rabbinical Judaism with Biblical Judaism is the biggest deception of the servants of Baal. They've always been Amalek, always will be Amalek, as evidenced by their nature and behavior. Just because a tranny calls himself a woman does not make it so, likewise the Jew is not what he claims.

>>540137312
Ok, but is the reason god lets niggers into heaven because god loves BBC?

>>540131289
Hear, hear

>>540132121
The Jews want you to be poor and ashamed of your history and your ancestors. Your ancestors were Christians.

Jews played you into denying the religion they hate most.

>>540132562
All semitic tales to dupe the goyim.

>>540133415
Revelation 3:9
I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars—I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you.

>>540137045
you're the one who is trying to wrestle with something beyond what he can grasp
i'm not
i'm fine not knowing everything, not understanding everything, suffering even if i don't understand why
i know and understand already much more than the average person and my conclusion it is that i wished i didn't know this much because it is worthless and only brings sorrow

the only knowledge that is useful to me is the knowledge of Jesus Christ and Him crucified for my sins
anything else is vanity and as worthless as dust
money is worthless, pleasure is worthless, knowledge outside of what i said is worthless

what's the takeaway ? here is it
Ecclesiastes 1:2
Vanity of vanities, says the Preacher,
vanity of vanities! All is vanity.
Ecclesiastes 1:17-18
And I set my heart to know wisdom and to know madness and folly. I perceived that this also is grasping for the wind.
For in much wisdom is much grief,
And he who increases knowledge increases sorrow.
John 14:6
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

True.

>>540136592
>. if someone comes in to rape you and torture you and your family
This can't happen if this
>>540136441
is true. Read it again. If something will result in suffering and pain of anyone, then you don't do it. You do only those things that DO NOT result in pain and suffering. So someone raping and torturing your family simply wouldn't be able to exist. Such things would be avoided. Was i not clear? I thought i was speaking clearly and unambiguously. I try to.

>>540137468
Do jews hate Christianity because Christians want niggers in heaven?

>>540131289
Cool why have the various institutions of Christianity and theologians been so rabidly anti-White, anti-male and anti-western for 80+ years now?
One doesn’t see any other faith doing that to its own faithful

>>540136932
>Knowledge gaps exist
>We cannot pry answers from silence
Use your fucking monkey brain your so proud of

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>>540137501
based Ecclesiastes enjoyed

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>>540131289
>Seek Christ for he is your true love. Realize when you seek matter you are seeking flesh because spirit has been imprisoned in matter and that your love; the one that remains after death is Christ which is the very source of our being.
Thanks

>>540137127
>we
speak for yourself kike

>>540137554
The answer is obvious, to allow room for more niggers in heaven.

>>540137312
>because you've already decided in your mind what you know
Umm, sorry what? I know that pain and suffering feel bad. All i'm asking is why does God want us to feel bad. Did he not say something like "do unto others as you have them done to you"? So why does he want to hurt us?

>>540137126
Based Polish bro. I’ll pray for your daughter. Hope your knee gets better too bud. Your daughter will be fine because a real prayer is a desire like you have. Not this awful materialism power worship shit

>>540137151
its a guide toward submission

>>540137678
the arrogance.
you didnt even figure out why satan exists but then thinks he has wisdom. what folly.

>>540137312
>but you don't get to demand answers
So i am just supposed to shut up and take it? If you can't provide the answers, then how do you not understand?
Do you want to feel bad? Do you want to feel pain? Do you want to suffer? Yes or no?

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>>540137185
>these arguments are so elementary
Yet you can't capitalize I, which is something you learn in elementary school. Curious that

>>540137185
you look like a kike that cant answer simple questions from a child
how pathetic is that

your bullshit lies cant stand a few simple questions without you going "I cant take this anymore"
ridiculous

>>540137698
> why does God want us to feel bad
Because you’re racist and heaven is reserved for niggers and BBC lovers.

>>540137501
>i'm fine not knowing everything, not understanding everything, suffering even if i don't understand why
So you literally don't care how you feel? Life must be easy if you don't care how you feel.

>>540137151
> Christianity is not a political system.

Every faith is supposed to be helping its faithful live meaningful and fulfilling lives. If Christianity collectively can’t figure out how to stop hating its own male and ethnic European faithful, and the very cultures and nations that gave it a home for two millenia, it’s gonna become irrelevant.
The way the institutions and theologians sold out the younger generations of faithful here in Globohomo jew countries in a gigantic Saturnian sacrifice giddily along with the jews is really freakin bad and it looks incredibly bad to outsiders.
But keep your head in the sand, after all, it’s what you’ve been doing for 80 years already

>>540137468
they were pagans before being forcefully converted to the cult of the kike on a stick

>>540137501
>i know and understand already much more than the average person and my conclusion it is that i wished i didn't know this much because it is worthless and only brings sorrow
So the less you know the better you feel? SO what's the solution, to forget everything? Is the solution to die? So life is wrong and we should die, is that the takeaway?

>>540137501
>the kike book says so

>>540137185
Anon, faiths are supposed to provide philosophically based answers and arguments for those kinds of questions. I can answer them.
People like you are so theologically and philosophically underdeveloped it’s unreal. Instead of attempting to answer his questions, you just insult him the way a woman would to win an argument in passing. It’s just cringe

>>540137898
> Every faith is supposed to be helping its faithful live meaningful and fulfilling lives.
Yes, fulfilling our brothers in Christ with BBC in preparation for all the niggers in heaven we must satisfy for all eternity. This is why we Christians practice humiliating and making the most submissive Europeans to ensure they are ready to serve niggers and wash their feet in paradise.

>>540137329
>yeah sure they’re evil and awful and the institutions and faith leaders will eternally keep working with them so you White goyim can be blamed and called evil
>but please pretend there was a time they were somehow different or something
No

>>540137765
no
you didnt answer why it exists

I figured out you lie a long time ago, you havent been able to answer anything

>>540137468
> The Jews want you to be poor and ashamed of your history and your ancestors. Your ancestors were Christians.


A sentiment one curiously will never hear repeated at a church or by theologians. Just whispered to heckin alt-rights guys on /pol/, right?

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>>540137490
I don't blame the jews for farming you illiterate faggot cattle. You deserve it.

>>540137468
When Constantine made Christinaity the offical religion of Rome, only 10% of the population was Christian and they just figured Jesus was another God being added like they had done so many times before. Christianity has always been a top down religion and isn't native to the European people. Moreover, it doesn't make sense in a world where we know the world is older than 6,000 years. Its a goofy desert cult and out ancestors were forced to be Christian.

>>540137501
>i'm fine not knowing everything, not understanding everything, suffering even if i don't understand why
Ignore this >>540137836
You seem to have it even better, you are fine no matter how you feel. Which doesn't make much sense, it seems like a hack. Did you just decide that you're fine or you just are fine? Are you one of those with a magic switch in their minds, you flip the switch and suddenly you can decide how you're going to feel? Life must be easy if you can just decide how you're going to feel...

>>540137898
what has any of this to do with Christianity.
Christianity is
shit is fucked up
here is why it is fucked up
you are fucked up too
here is the solution you are no longer fucked up
have faith in me I will lead you through this fucked up world
its not about institutions or theologians or any political agenda. things get worse until the judgement is all you are promised.

>>540131658
>christcuck
>hides behind meme flag
rabbi...

>>540138071
you said yourself you dont want biblical answers, so fuck off. the fuck are you even doing in this thread?

>>540138245
>0 logic
as expected

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>>540137523
This is a hilarious angle

>>540135281
I’ll pray that God rebukes the demons out of you.

>>540138184
> its not about institutions or theologians or any political

So other religions and faiths of this world are going to give you community, help, advocacy and spiritual fulfillment while you’re alive? They’re gonna help shepherd and safeguard the spirituality of your nation, too?
But Christianity can’t do any of that whatsoever? It just exists to collect money in the basket each Sunday and tell us well maybe have some rest once we’re dead?
If that’s the case, Christianity as a faith really is in trouble. A faith is worthless if it doesn’t do shit for its faithful while they’re alive. What a laughably stupid idea to even think otherwise.

>>540138245
Biblical answers are not philosophical ones. You should be able to explain how the biblical answers are addressing a philosophical need. If you can’t you shouldn’t be discussing these topics at all, because you’re reading the Bible like a pre-primer book. The same way a child learns to read with “See spot run” bullshit.

>>540137836
>So you literally don't care how you feel?
i'm filled with sorrow to the brink of exhaustion, i tried everything that this world has to offer
i lived through Ecclesiastes, i tried everything, all is vanity
i tried pleasure, living with a woman who loves you, i tried exciting things like if i was in gta irl, worthless
i have much knowledge, worthless, only brings sorrow
i spent decades trying to understand this world, worthless
i traveled around the world, worthless
this world has nothing to offer
i gave you the conclusion to this world
“Vanity of vanities,” says the Preacher;
“Vanity of vanities, all is vanity.”
the only thing that gave me relief in this life was to find Jesus Christ and to know that i found the ultimate truth, the only truth, everything else is meaningless
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
>>540138164
>You seem to have it even better, you are fine no matter how you feel.
i wish to die most days so that i could go to sleep and wait until the day Christ returns and takes me away
i don't want to be here but the choice is not up to me

>>540138468
>But Christianity can’t do any of that whatsoever?
you rely on God to carry you through, thats the entire fucking point.
you have to worry about nothing if the creator of every new day is your God.
doesnt mean you wont face trials but thats what the faith is for, that you can trust on God to get you through.

it baffles me that you dont get what faith in God is about. its not about playing social games and meeting up on sundays.

>>540138584
every problem philosophy tries to resolve are easily accounted for by the bible.
man is sinful
sin results in death
God sends his son to take on the sin and is put to death for you
you receive eternal life without any of your input needed
God started it, he finishes it
no plato, aristotle, nietzsche or jung needed.

>>540138679
> you rely on God to carry you through, thats the entire fucking point.

So, to summarize: faithful in literally any other religion can expect help and a hand up from fellow faithful throughout their lives, individually and collectively. But in Christianity the totality of the Body of Christ is
>ur on ur own

Like I said, it looks really awful to outsiders

>>540138774
If that’s the case you should be intelligent enough to explain why the biblical imagery explains those needs, and dispense with the childish insults and insistence on literalism.

>>540138617
>i wish to die most days so that i could go to sleep and wait until the day Christ returns and takes me away
>i wish to die most days so that i could go to sleep and wait until the day Christ returns and takes me away
>i don't want to be here
Why say that you're fine then?
>but the choice is not up to me
Whose choice is it then? Do you not have free will?
It doesn't make much sense, you people don't make much sense.
>Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
What exactly does this mean?

>>540138812
the fuck are you talking about, ofc you are helped by other true believers. its a brotherhood ofc.
but the ultimate guide is God. why woudnt I trust in God to bring me through the day he created?

>Like I said, it looks really awful to outsiders
who cares about what others think. Christianity is not a majority religion. you have a few elect, a remnant. the majority of humanity will never be on your side.
Christianity is not about optics.
you have the basic concept totally mixed up because you think in earthly terms.

>>540138679
>you rely on God to carry you through, thats the entire fucking point.
How can you rely on someone who wants you to get hurt? Doesn't that sound a bit abusive? So if an abusive husband makes his wife rely on him, so that she can't escape, and so that he can freely abuse her, is that ok? That doesn't make much sense... None of you make sense...

I give up. I will never understand you people.

>>540139150
the moment I put my life in Gods hands everything went well with me.
why are you standing on the outside screaming at me how bad you have it when you refuse to come in.

>>540138969
i'm fine with suffering but i wish i could die so i wouldn't have to live the rest of this life, that's not an extraordinary thing to understand
Kings 19
Then Elijah walked for a whole day into the desert. He sat down under a bush and asked to die. “I have had enough, Lord,” he prayed. “Let me die. I am no better than my ancestors.”
>Whose choice is it then? Do you not have free will?
no, i do not have authority over the life of someone or my own
>What exactly does this mean?
it means exactly what it says
The way, the truth and the life
do you know what a way is ?
Jesus Christ is the way
do you know what the truth represents ?
Jesus Christ is the truth
do you know what life represents ?
Jesus Christ is life
>>540139204
you don't need to understand me or anyone
the only thing you need to understand is that the only thing that matters in this world is Jesus Christ
keep trying to understand, one day you will reach that conclusion because it is the end of all things
Revelation 22:13
13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.
i'm not talking you in cryptic symbolism or schizo ramblings
Jesus Christ is literally the answer to this world, the ultimate knowledge, the final truth, the final quest
if you look for the truth, no matter where you start, if you keep going until the end, you will find Christ

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>>540137633
Godspeed brother

>>540139240
>the moment I put my life in Gods hands everything went well with me.
So you don't suffer and feel pain? Or do you find suffering and being in pain "everything went well"? I don't understand.

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>>540139897
do you really dont get the concept in putting your hope into something that is to come and suck it up with your little me me me problems?

>>540139897
1 Peter 4:12–13

“Beloved, do not be surprised at the fiery trial when it comes upon you to test you... But rejoice insofar as you share Christ’s sufferings.”

Christians probably suffer more than atheists, for they have to not only wrestle with the world, but also with their own bodies.

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>>540140199
also principalities, authorities of darkness, cosmic forces in the heavenlies and spirits of wickedness.

>>540140034
>with your little me me me problems?
Oh, i don't have a problem with just me suffering, i have a problem with everybody suffering. I have this thing called empathy, and when i see and hear that others suffer, well, i can see that they feel bad. I don't want them to feel bad. I don't want anyone to feel bad. But God does apparently. And that's what i don't understand. And never will.
>do you really dont get the concept in putting your hope into something that is to come
I have no hope that things will ever get better here, nobody is interested in making things better here.
>something that is to come
What exactly? When exactly? Why the need to hurt us?
>>540140199
>when it comes upon you to test you
Why the need for testing? If you do things correctly, they work as they should and there is no need for testing, is that not so?
>But rejoice insofar as you share Christ’s sufferings
So you're supposed to be happy that you suffer? That doesn't make sense. Can you be happy when you're suffering? You feel good when you feel bad?
That doesn't make much sense. Does anything make sense in your world? Help me understand.
Oh i forgot, i always fall for this trick. I give up trying to understand, but then i want to understand again, silly me. I should really just give up understanding. Maybe i should lobotomize myself, maybe that would help?

>>540140339
At least we have God to lean on when things get overwhelming. The only things the faithless can lean on are their vices, which only bring temporary relief at best.

>>540140339
Why doesn't God just get rid of them? Is someone preventing him from doing that?

>>540140657
>The only things the faithless can lean on are their vices
family ? friends ? traditions ? your own people ? culture ?
any of those is better than a made up sky daddy that doesnt exist, never spoke to anyone of your race, never spoke in your own language, never appeared anywhere outside of the middle east and will never answer your calls

>>540140536
do you think God is unaware of all the suffering in this world for thousands of years?
you have no idea about enduring suffering. and be glad that you dont understand that amount of suffering, it would drive anyone mad.
>nobody is interested in making things better here
here yes. but I am not talking about here, I am talking about heaven on earth for eternity without suffering. thats what I put my hope into. and you should too.
>What exactly? When exactly? Why the need to hurt us?
heaven on earth
after the resurrection of the dead
so you know how serious God is about sin

>>540140668
yes, the moment he does this world ends. he endures wickedness for the sake of his elect.

>>540140668
It's not that simple. Schizo Christians believe those forces are necessary to test and fortify humans. Its something to overcome.

>>540131289
Based Rudolf Steiner sculpture

>>540140657
lean into the suffering and you'll find it's easier to deal with it. you don't need God.

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>>540131289
>The reason people aren’t successful is because they put money over god and become enslaved by the hamster wheel of the Sodom System.
This is the exact same enslavement trap that the Pagan answer has been explaining for ages already.
Gods arent some banking dynasty, Gods are our immortality and in turn, our sovereignty in terms of both culture, theology and identity.

When you side with foreign gods of the middle east, you in turn become our greatest enemy imaginable.
an enemy wearing our faces, a skinwalker who pretend to know whats best for us.
a dagger that is walking within our midst, completely in the dark.

>>540140842
>you have no idea about enduring suffering. and be glad that you dont understand that amount of suffering, it would drive anyone mad.
how would you know ? do you understand the amount of suffering that no one can understand ?
why do you keep making these retarded impossible claims, but when others ask about them you say its impossible for them to know or endure or whatever
but conveniently is not impossible when you say so

>trust me bro
>kikes

>>540140536
>Why the need for testing?
To show where your loyalty lies.
> If you do things correctly, they work as they should and there is no need for testing, is that not so?
What do you mean?
>So you're supposed to be happy that you suffer?
Is suffering not an opportunity to grow?
>Can you be happy when you're suffering?
You can when you have perspective. If you workout, aren't you also suffering for the sake of making your body stronger? Suffering makes your spirit stronger in the same way.
>Does anything make sense in your world?
Life hasn't made more sense to me than it does now.
>I should really just give up understanding.
The mind is very limited. Not all can be understood through contemplation.

>>540140823
All of those things come and go. Who will you lean on at the moment of your death?

>>540141057
>he thinks God doesnt know about all the suffering child sacrifice victims the elites subject on them

>>540141100
>imblying dumbfuck religions doesnt come and go as well
how many made up gods have already been forgotten anon ?

>>540141022
Without God you wouldn't even be alive. To say you don't need God is one of the most ridiculous and arrogant things you can say.

>>540141165
things never said in any post of mine

good job taking bullshit out of your ass and pretending its an argument
guess what anon, its shit

>>540141193
Answer the question, please.
Do you expect your family to come with you when you die?

>>540132562
Why do you larping faggots always choose to die on the hill of christianity having nothing to do with jews when you know damn well that most of us have been to church and encounter christians irl on a daily basis? There's not a single pastor of any denomination who would deny such a thing

>>540141256
what a dumbfuck question, why would I expect that ?

my family have their lives to live, when I die, I can hope I'll be done with mine

>>540140842
>so you know how serious God is about sin
Not serious enough to prevent it when he could, apparently. Which brings us back to the beginning: why create them so that they sinned, and not so that they wouldn't sin? Where was God's seriousness then? Did he want there to be sin or not?
I don't understand.

>>540141365
You can hope, but I know that when I die, I will return to God with my head held high. Let's say you are wrong and I'm right, will you be able to face God's judgment by yourself?

>>540141458
Would you want to have a child without free will? A child who will obey you no matter what because they cannot choose otherwise?

>>540141458
so you simply dont understand that this short life and world simply exist to raise people up that are fit to live eternally without committing or even wanting to commit sin.

>>540141066
>Is suffering not an opportunity to grow?
No. First of all it makes you feel bad. I don't grow, in any sense of the word, when i'm suffering. I feel bad, down, defeated, it makes me lose the will to live. Suffering means i failed. I failed to make the right choice. I wasn't wise enough. Had i been wise enough i would have been able to avoid suffering. It doesn't gain me any useful knowledge, i only know how not to do something now, and i feel bad. I do not understand this 'growth' that you talk about. To me you just swapped the words 'feeling bad' with 'feeling bad'.
If you do things correctly you don't suffer as a result. If you suffer it means you're not doing things correctly. So the logical thing to do would be to do things correctly, so as to eliminate all suffering. But it seems to me that this is forbidden here.

>>540141555
easily, you say god is omniscient, so he knows 100% everything that goes in my mind, and everything I do is already predetermined by him, so he knows I only do the things he created me to do, therefore there is no way I can do anything he would have to punish me for, since Im only doing things he in his vast and unimaginable knowledge made it possible for me to do so

thing is, you have absolutely no possibility to know what we'll find after we die, and all you have is a bunch of lies made up by kikes
we can hope that at least there is some time there for you to regret falling for them and making the whole world a worse place for repeating that shit for so long

>>540142069
>'feeling bad' with 'feeling bad'
*with 'growth'

>>540131289
>Should I do something about rich and evil people?
>No!Instead I will cope how they will receive eternal punishment in afterlife!
Goycattle.

>>540141715
why would an all powerful god make people fit to live eternally without committing sin and some people unfit for that ? cant he make everyone fit ?
why does he need to test them ?
doesnt he already know the outcome of those tests ?

>>540142098
False. You have free will. God knows all the possible results of your decisions, but in the end it is you who takes either the left or right path.

If predetermination was true, the Bible's existence would be unnecessary.

>>540142151
religion for slaves made up by kikes

>>540142271
he does, but you dont.
God knows how great he is, him raising you up is for You to know how great God is.

>>540142275
god know if I'll take the left or right path
he made everything align in life for me to choose exactly what I will choose

>If predetermination was true, the Bible's existence would be unnecessary.
oo so close...
it is 100% unnecessary, but not for that reason

>>540142332
he could have made me knowing how great he is
sounds like he is very flawed in his creations anon

>>540142069
>So the logical thing to do would be to do things correctly, so as to eliminate all suffering.
You see, when everything works correctly, then things can't go wrong, and nobody can get hurt. If things do not work correctly, then everything goes wrong and everybody gets hurt. So why were things not made correctly?
Why were Adam and Eve not created in such a way that they would freely make the right choice every time? Wise enough that they wouldn't fail. Why sabotage them and make them stupid? Why blame them for their stupidity then? Why punish them? I don't understand. It doesn't make sense.
Is it forbidden to do things correctly here for some reason?

>>540142400
You are coping. Your decisions are your own and your sins will be on your own head.

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>>540131289
>please worship my "magical" jewish man who was totally definitely real and came back to life after three days and who sacrificed himself
to himself and don't forgeg to donate your foreskin to yhwh the magical jewish wind spirit!!!!
>PLEASE
uh no way fag

>>540131289
>The reason people aren’t successful is because they put money over god
Why are all the religious people so poor then?

>>540142523
not an argument

you have 0 response to what I said and had to made up "hurr durr you are coping"
0 copes, not my fault if you dont understand the logic of the fake bullshit you defend
what I said is 100% within the logic of your beliefs, you feel offended because you dont like the outcome of it
not my problem

>>540132121
modern jews =/= ancient jews

how many times do we have to tell you retards?

>>540131289
Christ IS the Answer, but there are shadow slavers about. We need an inquisition (or five).

>>540142665
none are white
0 reason for whites to forsaken their culture and follow the cult and laws of some middle east goatfuckers

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>>540142665
>dey ain't da original jooos we wuz da originel joos fr fr
Literal subhuman
pull your head out of the ass of kike mythology and wake the fuck up you literal actual fucking amerigolem

>>540142069
>when i'm suffering. I feel bad, down, defeated, it makes me lose the will to live

Because you see no purpose in the suffering so of course you suffer even more because of it.

>Suffering means i failed. I failed to make the right choice
Fall down seven times, stand up eight.

>I wasn't wise enough
That's why you need to stop relying on your own wisdom.

>I do not understand this 'growth' that you talk about.

Because you identify with the flesh.

>If you do things correctly you don't suffer as a result

And exactly how does doing things "correctly" prevent suffering? Family members can still die if you do all the right things. You can still get cancer or some other deadly illness.

You can't possibly control all aspects of life. In the end you are just a droplet of water inside a whirlpool.

>>540142629
what I said is 100% within the logic of your beliefs
The exact opposite. If all was predetermined then so was this conversation. Why are you judging me if I can't control anything I just said? Or was your judgment perhaps part of your destination?

>>540143044
god made you this stupid on purpose anon
it was his intent
dont question the wills of god

>>540137329
>We Christians who ignore the Old Testament despite Jesus telling us otherwise are the Real Jews™

>>540143094
actually made me chuckle
you're alright monkeyman

>>540143094
That's rich. You deny your own free will and you call me stupid. How can you be unaware of your own free will and call others stupid? Someone who has no free will is an NPC. Are you an NPC or will you admit you were talking foolishly?

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Why are they like this?

>>540143204
you are so close to pointing out a flaw in your system
you think the flaw is in the other person, when the other person was just following the rules of your system
I hope you can connect the dots someday anon

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>>540143245
They're just contrarians. They think it's cool and counterculture worshiping a dead Jews and telling people Jewish prophecies are real. There are probably only like 3 genuine Christians on /pol/.

>>540143290
I'm only pointing out a flaw in your arguments.
Do you have free will or not?

Deuteronomy 30:19

"I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse. Therefore choose life, that you and your offspring may live."

Does that sound like predetermination to you?

>>540142975
>Because you see no purpose in the suffering
I see no purpose in feeling bad, yes. I would rather not feel bad. How hard is this to understand? As we've established, at least i hope we have, suffering means you did something incorrectly. So please explain why would i want to do things incorrectly? What is the purpose of doing things incorrectly, as opposed to correctly? Enlighten me please. Why would anyone want to do things the wrong way? Why enable it, when you can prevent them?

>Fall down seven times, stand up eight.
Why would you want somebody to fail?

>Because you identify with the flesh.
Am i not the flesh? Can i detach from it? Can i decide not to feel pain? I can not. Can iu decide how i am going to feel? I can not. What is the alternative, do tell please.

>And exactly how does doing things "correctly" prevent suffering?
Oh so it does not? Are you saying it is impossible to do things correctly? Are you saying that i am not allowed to avoid all suffering? That suffering is guaranteed? So i have no choice but to suffer? I am not allowed to win? Why should i even try if i am only allowed to lose?

>>540143438
does your system allow for free will or not ?
is your god omniscient and omnipotent ?

your rules make a system that is illogical anon
you think you detected a flaw in logic in me, its not in me, its in your belief system

doesnt matter if I believe I have free will or not, that is not my system of beliefs, its yours

>the kike book said so
gee, who can argue against that right ?!

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>>540131289
— is the answer!

>>540143404
your nu- atheism will be never cool again Thomas

>>540143607
>I would rather not feel bad.
Who wants to feel bad? No one. But there's a silver lining in the suffering if you believe it has a purpose. Ironically your refusal to believe it has a purpose is causing you to suffer.

>As we've established, at least i hope we have, suffering means you did something incorrectly.

No we haven't. I told you your thinking was wrong in my post. You can do everything right in life but still suffer.

>Why would you want somebody to fail?

So you can learn how to get up. If a child never hurt his hand on a hot stove, how would it know fire damages the body?

>Am i not the flesh?

You are not.

> Can i detach from it?

You will at the moment of your death.

> Can i decide not to feel pain?

>What is the alternative, do tell please.

Suffering is the one constant in this world, but it's your decision how you respond to it. You can either choose to cry about it which doesn't actually change anything except add to the suffering, or you can let it forge you into something stronger.

>Are you saying it is impossible to do things correctly?

There is a righteous path and an unrighteous path, but neither path will stop you from suffering.

> I am not allowed to win?

Win what?

>Why should i even try if i am only allowed to lose?

You only lose if you give up.

>>540143607
YOU HAVE TO PREVENT IT YOURSELF YOU HAVE TO GET BACK UP STOP BEGGING FOR HELP

THIS IS THE TRUE AND ONLY MESSAGE FROM ME…

MY LAST SIGN - STOP ASKING FOR HELP AND PETTY… STOP SAYING OH WHAT ABOUT MY SHITTY PAST AND HARD LIFE WHY DON’T YOU FIX IT OR DIE?

YOU ARE WORTHLESS - NOW FIX YOURSELF - THIS IS COMING FROM THE HIGHEST POINT….

ATHENA - YHVH

>>540144189
*PITY NOT PETTY

ATHENA - YHVH

>>540143668
>does your system allow for free will or not ?
God breathed free will into us.
>is your god omniscient and omnipotent ?
Yes. If you know all the possible results aren't you those things? God knows what will happen if you take the righteous or unrighteous path, but in the end it's up to you which path you will follow. Does God know which path you will follow from the moment you were born? That question is rooted in time and God exists outside of time. I can't possibly answer it with my limited knowledge.

ALL CORRECT! CHRIST IS ONE AND ONLY SAVIOR!

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>>540144104
>>540144189
Have you found the (jesus christ) the em-dash yet, anon? You just hold down alt and type onto the numpad 0151 and then release the alt button, and there you fucking have it, a perfectly formed em-dash. — 0151 in simple gematri writes Jesus Christ.
See?

>>540131289
stop enabling Jews ,do something If you are that righteous Instead of funding Jews to bomb little girls

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>>540138417
I'll pray that God rebukes the ignorance and malice out of your soul. Deliver us from evil as they say.

>>540144104
>But
There's always a but with you people...
>But there's a silver lining in the suffering if you believe it has a purpose.
Will me believing it has a purpose make it feel any better? No, it will still feel bad. So nothing has changed. You can't offer a solution to the problem. It seems to me that solutions are forbidden here. Or you just don't want solutions...
>You can do everything right in life but still suffer.
OK first of all how is that fair? Secondly, how can i then know whether what i am doing is right or wrong? If i can't know, i can't be responsible for it, right?
>>540144104
>So you can learn how to get up.
Why would i need to get up? That means that i fell down. Why would you want for somebody to fall down?
>If a child never hurt his hand on a hot stove,
Why make a child deliberately so stupid that it would put his hand on the hot stove? Alternatively, why would you design a world where a child has access to hot stoves?
Why do you absolutely insist on doing things incorrectly, so that they have flaws? What is going on? Why not make things flawless, so that nothing can go wrong? It does not make sense.

>You will at the moment of your death.
But not now, correct? I can not detach from it, i can not decide to not feel it, i do not have that choice, correct? So am i now not my body somehow?

>Suffering is the one constant in this world
So where is the choice here?

>There is a righteous path and an unrighteous path, but neither path will stop you from suffering.
So whatever i do, i lose. Whatever i do is wrong. So again, where is the choice?

>Win what?
Win against pain and suffering. To avoid them completely, so that you can be truly happy. The only defense against pain is to not let it manifest in the first place. If you fail that, it wins. What does pain do? It hurts, that's its job. Once you let it manifest it has already won, there is nothing you can do at that point, it will force itself upon you and hurt you and make you feel bad.

>>540144104
>You only lose if you give up.
But it is you who have given up. You don't want the world and life to improve. You want there to be pain and suffering. Is it not true? Am i lying?

>>540145067

It doesn't matter what I say to you, you'll just keep arguing with me without listening. It's so tiresome.

Life isn't fucking fair and you crying about it isn't going to change that.

>>540143975
i'm finna —

>>540145377
>Life isn't fucking fair and you crying about it isn't going to change that.
Well, why don't we make it fair then? Is someone/something preventing us from doing that? Or have you given up?

Theodicy is complicated but as far as I can understand the reason behind the fall boils down to free will: God allowed his creation to make the wrong choice because otherwise we would just be mindless puppets.

And why Satan felt the need to tempt Adam & Eve is because he wanted to be on the same level as God. He saw a weaker representation of God (humans) that he could cause to stumble and wanted to challenge God in that way.

Ultimately God has allowed us to fall because he has provided a way out in the way of Jesus Christ taking the sins of our inequity.

Now you can say "could God not just have made creation without the capacity to make free choices" sure but he wanted beings that actively choose God of their own volition.

>>540144876
Busy, need more niggers in heaven to ensure an optimal ratio of Christcucks to BBC.

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Are the christ kikes (chrikes) acting up again?

>>540131289
Christ ain't going to get rid of the judeo-masonic system, republics and their managerial class.

>>540131289
>god cares for the birds
God does NOT care for the birds, they die of starvation all the time. In fact this retarded statement is so wrong it's long been pointed at as a piss-easy way to prove the torah / old testament was written by men, using primitive understandings of zoology.

>>540145594
>God allowed his creation to make the wrong choice because otherwise we would just be mindless puppets.
Are those two really the only options? God couldn't create a being wise enough to freely recognize the right choice to make every time?
So did they actually have a choice, or was it an illusion of choice? Why the need for trickery and deception? That doesn't look very honest to me. Something doesn't compute here.

>>540131289
WHEN I SAY JUDEO-CHRISTIAN, ALL CHRISTKEKS SAY "THANK YOU GOD'S CHOSEN PEOPLE"

>JUDEO-CHRISTIAN

>>540131289
No.

Just hail Hades.

>>540145594
>Ultimately God has allowed us to fall because he has provided a way out in the way of Jesus Christ taking the sins of our inequity.
But that's the same stuff politicians do today, they cook up a problem, so that they can then come and save us with a solution.
Likewise with this 'growth' thing, which i'm guessing is supposed to be endless, right? Now where have i heard about 'endless growth' again? Oh right, it's the economists...
What is going on really?

>>540131658
You're a kike though
Your 'people' are thoroughly described in John 8:44 and Rev. 3:9

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When E Crusaders finally begin to realize jesus was a kike:

>>540145788
>Are those two really the only options? God couldn't create a being wise enough to freely recognize the right choice to make every time?
Adam & Eve knew what the right choice was, yet still they chose wrong, because the temptation was too strong. Eventually all created beings will make the wrong choice because we are simply limited by space and time. As opposed to God that is infinite and thus have an infinitely perfect standard to uphold.

>So did they actually have a choice, or was it an illusion of choice? Why the need for trickery and deception? That doesn't look very honest to me. Something doesn't compute here.
It was a choice, Eve was tempted, Adam chose to fall with Eve because he loved her more than God. Satan was the tempter.

An allegory is having a child yourself, you tell him not to touch the fire, he agrees not to touch the fire but eventually he will go against your advice and touch it, because he has to experience to learn it, yet still the consequence will be burning your hand. This must happen for children to learn, and cannot be avoided, and yet still we have children because there is a joy even when they go against our will, because them having their own will is a great value in itself.

>>540145888
God didn't cook up a problem, he created the heavens and earth because God loves creating things, he loved walking with Adam and Eve, he loved all his angels but he also knew at some point the fall would come, these things are not mutually exclusive. You can know things will come to an end and still enjoy the time you have.

>>540131289
Love is the answer

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>>540141308
Rabbinic Judaism =/= The Religion of the Israelites or even 2nd Temple Judeans, you moron.

Why don't you read actual history recorded by ~2nd temple era Jews/Romans and see for your self (Josephus).
None of it was recorded by 'Christians' and it's totally independent of Rabbinic bullshit that didn't show up till 2-600 years after Rome burned the temple and all genealogy records to the ground.
Christians specifically did NOT track leftover jewish genealogy after the temple fell, they were labelled the SOS and that was it. Why would they track a religion that no longer existed? Christian Scripture deals with Hebrew scripture, not the crap rabbinics made up/edited the Torah with.

The mishna and talmuds are retconned fanfiction written well after Jesus, using bits from Hebrew scripture mixed with straight bullshit. They even repeat the bullshit today with a straight face, have your hasbara AI verify the picrel and ask about Jacob Neusner's (a Jew, fyi) review of the pharisees.

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All these are unanswered. If something in them is not true please feel free to correct them. If not i will assume they are true. But please be unambiguous, exact, direct, straightforward, and simple if you can. I try to do the same as well.
>>540146138
>Adam & Eve knew what the right choice was, yet still they chose wrong, because the temptation was too strong.
Who made it so? Who is responsible for temptation to be too strong? Alternatively, who is responsible for them to be too weak? Why?
>Eventually all created beings will make the wrong choice because we are simply limited by space and time.
So whose fault is it that it is so? Is it the beings' fault? Yes or no?

>>540146138
>As opposed to God that is infinite and thus have an infinitely perfect standard to uphold.
So why apply the same standard to beings that aren't infinite?

>>540146138
>It was a choice
That's not what i asked.
>Eventually all created beings will make the wrong choice
So they did not have a choice not to fail, is that correct?

>>540145594
>otherwise we would just be mindless puppets
Is it not what God wants? What do mindless puppets do? Do they make the right choice every time? Is it not true that we are being punished because we are not like mindless puppets (we do not make the right choice every time)? Is it not true that we will continue being punished until we become like mindless puppets (so that we can make the right choice every time)? Is it not true that the only way for us to avoid being punished is for us to become like mindless puppets, so that we can make the right choice every time? Is it not true? So how can you say that God doesn't want mindless puppets?