https://strawpoll.com/wAg3Q1jb2y8
>>540271609Physics isn't real. It's a kike deception.
>>540271609Of course it is. People on here just don't know how basic of concepts count as "quantum mechanics".
>>540271718Why do you think that?
>>540271609QM is literally jewish nonsense and is just rigged mathematics (heuristics) designed to hide the fact that jews dont know how anything works.the whole entire field is just a massive jew fudge.basically Bohr and Heisenberg decided that "knowing things" was too much work, so they invented QM to make reality fuzzy.they stopped asking "How does this object move?" and started asking "What are the odds this object feels like moving today?"so this jewish brainrot fake "science" is about whoever has the biggest research grant and the best marketing team at wikipedia.
>>540272509Why do you think people seem to rely on quantum mechanics to create various technologies?Were they all lying, or did it just coincidentally work out, or what?
>>540272509So you don't understand the basics of it or what it says. Stop watching popsci.
>>540271609Matter is causation.
OK, someone explain to me how come it takes longer for me to write this then for it to go world wide when I doses send?
>>540273177Time has no beginning, but every beginning is in time.
>>540273006coincidence? more like billions of dollars in grant money spent making sure EVERYTHING fits the QM model even when it shouldnt.basically if you build enough layers of math bullshit on top of each other eventually something starts working but once you peel back the last layer of jewish brainrot theres nothing underneath but pure confusion and empty space.
>>540273297How can money allow a flawed theory make accurate predictions?
>>540271693>>540272509At what point do you think physics stops making sense? Surely you don't doubt newtonian mechanics, as you can pretty reliably predict how long it will take a thrown ball to hit the ground. Do you think the photoelectric effect doesn't happen? Do you think that particles don't exhibit the behavior of being defined over a wavefunction of space rather than having a definite location? These effects don't take million dollar machines to observe.>>540272367LEDs are very "quantum" devices. How do you explain their operation without accepting the quantization of transfer of electromagnetic energy? That's before you even get into the semiconductor physics that actually make that happen.
>>540273177Quadrillions of Angels that can fit on a pinhead transmit your message across the flat earth to ignite Phlogistons in our monitors to convey the information to us!
>>540273416jew science is a rigged game called Peer Review.you have groups of (((scientists))) who all agree on the same flawed QM nonsense.these people control the research grants AND the journals.>accurate predictions?Easy. You can have a very accurate mathematical model of how a broken gear turns but that doesnt mean you understand the mechanics behind why it works in the first place.
>>540273607observing an effect is NOT the same as understanding the mechanism.>particles exhibiting wavefunction behaviorLMAO they exhibit mathematical patterns that jews interpret as waves because jews current theories are too shitty to handle actual mechanical reality.if we had real mechanics instead of jewish brainrot heuristics we wouldnt need to rely on these probabilistic jewish fairy tales.
>>540273642But I'm not talking about understanding WHY things happen but rather HOW they happen.How is it that quantum mechanics makes accurate predictions as to HOW things happen?
The statistics of quantum are accurate. But the wave function is some bullshit. It should be noted that 99% of the time the wave function doesn't matter, onky in very particular circumstances, and I think it's bullshit
>>540273768in classical mechanics, "how" means the actual mechanical cause.in QM, "how" only refers to the mathematical probability.they don't predict how things happen they provide a statistical cheat sheet for what happens once they finally stumble upon them with a sensor.basically if I give you a book that tells you every time someone in india takes a shit on the street, that book is an incredibly accurate prediction tool but it still doesn't tell you HOW or WHY jeets are openly defecating.
>>540274009>in QM, "how" only refers to the mathematical probabilityNo. The wave function is not just a probability. You wish it was.The wave function says that particles don't even have a descrete position u til a "measurement". In other words particles are everywhere and nowhere, a the time, until a conscious being percieves them.
>>540274009Maybe how was the wrong word, maybe what is better.Put it this way:>Quantum mechanics predicts that a particular thing will happen under particular circumstances>Experimental results show that this prediction is accurateIf quantum mechanics is so flawed, then how is it that it works at all? Where's the flaw, i.e. the point where it makes a prediction that turns out to be totally wrong? You know, how could you prove that it doesn't work?
>>540273263Snake chewing its own foots thing! :P
>>540273638Sweets.
>>540274229The statistics of quantum works. That's when you put two wave functions together and get a statistical function.The statistical functions are 100% accurate. But the wave functions behind them are some weird bullshit that doesn't make any sense. It turns the whole discipline into confusion.
>>540274224>until a conscious being percieves them.untestable unfalsifiable jewish nonsense.>>540274229can you really be so dense that you dont understand this?like every single thing in life has an "accurate prediction", if I bet 10 bucks on a coin flip, my "prediction" will be right 50% of the time.does that mean the coin knows probability theory?no.It means I have a working statistical model for something whose actual mechanism (physics) remains a total mystery.all these mainstream jewish physicists arent doing science anymore, all they do is they soak up a shitload of money so they can be doing highly advanced bookkeeping. all they do is measure error margin.they take measurements, find a mistake, and then just tweak their parameters until the numbers match again.it's basically "science by adjustment". is that simple enough so you understand this?also no jews haven't discovered how the universe works but they sell you on the idea that they did.they shill you all kinds of bullshit along with QM so you adopt a more nihilistic nothing matters mindset.
Lost the results nigger!
>>540274381If it never fails, then how can you say that it doesn't make any sense?Do you mean to say that you just don't understand it?
>>540274456>if I bet 10 bucks on a coin flip, my "prediction" will be right 50% of the time.The wave function says>it's heads and tails at the same time, until you look at itOf course it's 50%. But in one case your thinking is deterministic. Like the coin itself is an object in the world behaving according to laws. In the other instance the coin is like an abstract entity that's part of human perception
>>540274456>my "prediction" will be right 50% of the time.But it will also be wrong 50% of the time. So whatever theory you're using to predict the coin toss is clearly pretty bad at making accurate predictions.
>>540273642Actually we have the opposite problem. A lot of shit gets slid by and published with little to no peer review, much less replication. This leads to a lot of bullshit getting published these days. It's laziness that is ruining the system, not rigging.>>540273718 >observing an effect is NOT the same as understanding the mechanismThis is an infinitely repeatable "turtles all the way down" situation. Sure, we have things that we understand, and we understand what makes it happen, and we understand what makes THAT happen, but if you continue down this chain you will inevitably get to a point where we don't know yet.The question in the OP was if quantum mechanics is useful for predicting reality, and it unquestionably is. It's not a complete field, but no field in physics is totally complete. How could you even expect one to be?
>>540274472>you just don't understand it?Nobody understands it, because it doesn't make sense. I've talked to grad students and asked them for help, and they didn't understand. It works as math on paper but conceptually it makes no goddamn sense at all.Like for example, take the Stern Gerlach experiment. The particle supposedly knows, before it even travels, what your experimental setup looks like, and chooses a path accordingly. To explain this some people say, there's some causality going on. Like the reality that is chosen is the one where the particles travel in the specified way. Some people said, before the particle travels there's some sort of "wave front" that goes first, relaying back information and telling the particle how to travel.
>>540274224>>540274381Do you think that electrons do not display interference patterns when used in a double slit experiment? Do you think that quantum tunneling does not occur? How do you explain these two easily observable effects without wavefunctions?
>>540274690Maybe you need to read the poll question:>Do you believe that the theory of quantum mechanics is generally a predictive and useful model of reality?
>>540274694That's all you got right? Those 2 things? So if I can find an alternate explantion for those 2 things, the theory falls apart right?
>>540274788>useful model of realityNo, because it doesn't make goddamn sense. The statistics is borne out, but conceptually it doesn't work
>>540274805Of course they're not the only two, just the first two that came to mind. I would like to see your alternate explanations though.This isn't secret knowledge or anything. You can literally just go read up on the history of the theory and what motivated its development.
>>540274840What do you think the concept is?AFAIK the point of a scientific theory is to be a model that makes accurate predictions about reality. I get the impression that maybe it means something different to you.
>>540274690That is ebcau all instruments aka interfaces aka so called matter of observation and conclusion lacks in full perspective and for sake of comprehension, speed to process the process.Meaning, we need to align more the interface we have and are adding via upgrades, like machines to senses, not necessarily transhumanism... to grasp more of the process aka align perspective.I think it can be done and we do it... but can't always detect it yet to unravel it and recreate it mechanically and distil it into a scientific process. Our brain does... everything ironically does. Because we are it, doing it... it's kind of funny. Compartmentalization.
>>540275009Quantum holds that while other things flail around statistically, energy is absolute. Energy is just a fixed known quantity.But what if at the small level, there's a ton of statistical randomness going on? Like an ether, with tiny little particles flooding the zone, causing a type of brownian motion? Then the energy of a small particle is not immutable and fixed, but a statistical quantity that averages out. In that respect, the particle can, in some probabilities, be moving super fast, enough to cross over big potential gaps and reach the other side.As for interference pattern, when you "measure" the particles you're not just looking at them, you're blasting them with photons. There's some shit going on you don't understand.
>>540274546if you stop treating math as the reality and start looking at actual physical rotation you realize the wavefunction is just an extremely complicated way of describing an object thats spinning end over end relative to your sensor.all those unsolvable mysteries, Bell tests, and spooky entanglement are just resultants of people trying to measure rotating systems from stationary frames without understanding where the center of rotation actually is.
>>540274590>thinks QM predicts individual eventslmaono result can ever prove it wrong. you can measure everything until you die, but if the theory says it might happen then even when nothing happens the theory wins.its guesswork designed to never EVER be proven wrong.
>>540275492Entanglement is absolute horseshit. I figured that one out right away. That's one I know for 100% certain is bullshit, that's part of the reason I started heavily questioning quantum. Seeing supposedly smart people make this basic fucking error
>>540275191>Energy is just a fixed known quantityOnly if you have literally zero information about the time of an event occurring. Otherwise, energy is indeed uncertain as well.>As for interference pattern, when you "measure" the particles you're not just looking at themI'm not talking about the behavior changing under observation or not. When you shoot a bunch of electrons one at a time through a double slit system, you get many lines of detection locations on the target, rather than the two you would classically expect. What I am asking is how that is explainable if not by wavelike behavior.
>>540272509the theoretical basis for producing the chips the computer you posted this from is built on is entirely quantum mechanical if QM was jewish nonsense to hide their inability to understand the world, semiconductor chips wouldn't exist
>>540275840>the theory says it might happen then even when nothing happensWhat?
>>540274596>It's not a complete field, but no field in physics is totally complete.this is the big part. even physicists, the ones supposedly getting money from BIG THEM to hide how bullshit QM is, don't like that QM can't explain gravity at all and are actively searching for a new model that can explain electro-weak/strong forces and gravity
>>540274596>Its laziness that is ruining the system, not riggingits bothalso if your theory requires you to believe in probability instead of an actual physical cause you aren't doing physics.also>muh postmodern Nihilismjew physicists have stopped trying to understand reality and started focusing on perfecting their math so they never have to admit they are wrong and can steal more goy money. look up who pays for all the quantum nonsense.
>>540275917>Otherwise, energy is indeed uncertain as well.No. Haven't you heard of quantization of energy? Position and momentum supposedly have this tradeoff, but energy is fixed and known.You can't tell the position or momentum of an electron, but you can know its energy. That's just something you're not correct about even by the QM theory itself.>When you shoot a bunch of electrons one at a time through a double slit system, you get many lines of detection locations on the target, rather than the two you would classically expect. Actually classically you don't get that, you get a "hump" in the center which peters out to the sides. Which means the particles are bouncing off the edges of the slit and shit. So that's a problem in itself.Also you have to understand. These experiments presented to you in the textbook are so called "thought experiments". This is the concept they have in their own mind. But for the most part they have not actually done these experilements in reality. Like shooting electrons through 1 by 1. To my knowledge they've never actually done that. If they have, it would play into my theories about the ether. Like how every atom creates an ether around it, and the ether is preceeding the electron and guiding its movement. The ether can act as a wave with an interference pattern, since there's billions of tiny particles.
>>540274690>'ve talked to grad studentskek
>>540276289Grad students are the main workhorse that's actually doing all the experiments, crafting theories and shit. If they don't understand somethint it's a problem
>>540275950jews have gotten so good at manipulating these probabilistic fudge factors that they can build incredibly complex machines, but jews still havent figured out what a particle ACTUALLY is.basically semiconductors work because chink engineers are geniuses at exploiting mathematical heuristics not because anyone understands why subatomic particles behave that way.
>>540276365this is some delicious cope>(((scientists))) are able to repeatedly make materials do the exact same, very complicated thing on demand, but they do so by accident and have no understanding of what they're doing whatsoever
>>540275969>What?that is literally the official motto of QM lmaoyou think things should follow an orderly path but they dont.QM says: "There is a chance X happens."If you look and X didnt happen that doesnt mean the jew math failed it means you saw a nonX event within that statistical distribution.so in jew QM you can NEVER be wrong.since everything is just a probability any result no matter how weird is considered proof that the jew theory worked.its the only field where you can be right about a mistake forever. this is why they keep getting all the grant money. literally professional jew guessers who have successfully convinced the world their errors are actually "quantum mysteries".>More complexity = more error = more research grants = more money for Bohr jew's descendants.
>>540276693>any result no matter how weird is considered proof that the jew theory worked.finding 2 fermions with the same quantum numbers occupying the same quantum state would instantly and permanently disprove QM, you retard
I think fundamental physics is one of the few fields in which the chud and the jew find themselves aligned. The jew maneuver's his pawns as he likes, and he steers the world as he likes. It goes without saying that his plays are executed in ways that benefit the jew, and, at the very least, have no regard for the goy.In questions of the sublime, the jew is uncompromising. This aspect is unseen by the goy, and 99% of /pol/, since it seems to serve the worldly machinations of the jew to have the goy abandoned, or even kill, his grasp of the sublime, and so, the jew partitions his mind (even "atheist" jews, they all understand this), after coming home from his (proverbial) work, he hangs up the hat sullied by the filth of the goyim stables. He proceeds to shower, dress himself, and embrace the hearth of his home, the monotheistic God.Understood?Now, with physics, with the observed practice of probing All, the jew can fix no partition. It's a constant deluge of uninvited guests, with no way to screen for fellow jewry, the goyim make their way in. In these matters, effectively of life and death, the jew reveals a truer color than whatever hue the best historians of their tricks have found. He works to wash the goyim, and prepare them for communion with his sanctum.Albert Einstein and David Bohm fought for the same truth as that of the chud.
>>540276431>but they do so by accident and have no understanding of what they're doing whatsoeverthats literally whats happening, manipulating patterns (heuristics) without ever understanding the mechanism causing them.>>540276814lol funny guy if two fermions occupy the same state the jew physicists wont go home crying.they just invent a new force like a Dark Boson or a new degree of freedom to explain why they did.jews will simply add another layer of complexity call it a new discovery and secure even MORE grant money.
>>540276831This guy too. I don't know his genealogy, but I have little doubt.
>>540276280>That's just something you're not correct about even by the QM theory itself.You are talking about Heisenberg's uncertainty principle, usually formulated as delta(x)*delta(p) = h/4piConsider that position is of course velocity times time, so delta(x) = delta(t)*vSubbing this into the original formulation of the uncertainty principle, we get delta(t)*v*delta(p) = h/4piWhich, since energy equals velocity times momentum, this simplifies to delta(E)*delta(t) = h/4piThis is a very common formulation of the same uncertainty principle you speak of.>These experiments presented to you in the textbook are so called "thought experiments".These were literally, physically performed. They do these in undergrad classrooms.
>>540277125You're clearly using AI so it's time to put a "big doubt" on everything you're saying henceforth. >position is of course velocity timeLmao for a particle? No a particle doesn't work that way, a particle can appear anywhere. Doesn't have a fixed position. The so called 'average position' follows, statistically, this relationship. But for an individual particle this is not a formula that works. Velocity x time =/= position. The particle has no fixed position, it's in many positions all at once.>delta(E)*delta(t) = h/4piI don't even know what this means. According to this little equation time itselt is "uncertain". Nah bruh, you're clearly misusing this. It's not saying what you think it's saying. I'm just telling matter of factly, in any quantum mechanics problem Energy is 100% known. I've had all my quantum classes and I've literally never seen "energy" as some sort of uncertain quantity with a range to it. Energy is quantized and fixed in the problem. Particle does not fluctuate energy.>They do these in undergrad classrooms.Nah. I don't even know how you'd do it. Double slit sure, but 1 electron at a time? Lmao how??
>>540277470if you don't understand the energy-time uncertainty relationship you never took quantum courses retard
>>540277470From Griffiths
>>540277604>if you don't understand the energy-time uncertainty relationship you never took quantum courses retardi remember grokking the heisenberg thing as a junior physics major back in college, it was a good feeling, couldnt explain it now, though
>>540277604Bro Schrodinger's equation is literally an energy relationship. Energy is fixed, conserved, known. Without conservation of energy nothing in QFT even works.
>>540277470>but 1 electron at a time? Lmao how??a mach-zender interferometer with a coincidence circuit connecting the "control" beam and the "experimental" beam to make sure you're only considering entangled pairs, with a source running at incredibly low intensityI literally did that, in a very dark optics lab, with mutually orthogonal polarizers in front of each slit in a 2-slit set up, with a 3rd polarizer orthogonal to each of the 2 slit polarizers. this was in the context of quantum erasers and using photons, but it was still single photons at a time hitting the detectors>>540277991read the griffith's excerpt linked by the dutch guy, you gorilla nigger. energy-time is about a quantum mechanical system, not a specific particle like position-momentum
>>540277696You could look at this and say to yourself "wow great geniuses, they surely are so wise'.Or you can look at this and go "that's fucking retarded and makes no goddamn sense even by its own presuppositions".You need the balls to call bullshit.
>>540278076>to make sure you're only considering entangled pairsAhahaha that's how they're doing it? Oh so I know it's bullshit. I've seen this before, they shoot multiple electrons but only "count" the electrons they want.>energy-time is about a quantum mechanical systemIt's bullshit bro. Time is not some uncertain quantity. Maybe if you're looking at data and trying to calculate backward to time, from other variables. It's just nonsense.
>>540277470>"I've had all my quantum classes">Does not recognize the uncertainty principle when shown it.>"Nah bruh, you're clearly misusing this. It's not saying what you think it's saying."Why do you talk so certainly about things you are clearly so unfamiliar with?>>540277991>Energy is fixed, conserved, known.Uncertainty doesn't imply a lack of conservation of energy, rather just that this uncertainty will propagate through your calculations and make your results similarly uncertain. This adamancy about the certainty of energy is such a weird thing to fixate on.>Without conservation of energy nothing in QFT even works.I'm sure you know all about QFT.
>>540278146>You need the balls to call bullshit.see>>540275950this "bullshit" is the only reason you can post on this godforsaken hellsite to being with, or goon to your AI generated catgirls. using a computer to talk about how QM is fake is cutting off the branch you're sitting on
>>540278255>Time is not some uncertain quantity.lololololfirst off, in the energy-time uncertain relationship, time is used to represent how long a certain state exists. its not "did 1 second pass or not", its "how many seconds did that state exist for". are you claiming the ability to measure time with absolute certainty?second, this is presumably a discussion about non-relativistic QM, but time is most certainly not some unchanging immutable measuring device. we've literally flown a clock around the world and compared it to an identical clock left stationary at the original airport. the clocks were both zero'd out at the same time and the one that rode on the plane recorded something like 10s to 100s of nanoseconds fewer than the stationary one. how fast a clock ticks is entirely dependent on how fast its reference frame is moving relative to your reference frame
>>540278276>Why do you talk so certainly about things you are clearly so unfamiliar with?Because quantum mechanics is bullshit. It's false. What you're talking about is some oscure thing no doubt inspired by symmetry type reasoning. >If you look at a math equation on a page, all variables should be treated equal. So if position and momentum are uncertain, surely I can change out variables"Ok but that's not saying anything. I'm just telling you as a matter of fact, n 100% of quantum problems energy is a fixed quantity. Schrodinger's equation is based on this, it's a hamiltonian. >This adamancy about the certainty of energy is such a weird thing to fixate on.It's not, because the entire assertion about quantum tunneling presupposes this. Classical particle can't overcome this energy threshold, supposedly. Isnthst the whole argument?
>>540278443>let me smugly defend my false theory.Ok bro, you use AI to memorize and regurgitate the textbook. Leave the free thinking to others.>it's how many seconds did that state exist forIt's some obscure nonsene I'm telling you. In a quantum mechanics problem, you are given the energy. A Hamiltonian literally presupposes fixed, conserved energy. Energy is used in place of things like position and velocity BECAUSE it's assumed to have this strict conservation relationship other variables don't have.
>>540278670>my theory of reality requires assuming how everything works and then hammering observed evidence until it matches my presuppositionsdid fucking aristotle get resurrected and immediately start posting on /pol/?if you physically try to measure the energy of a quantum state with an extremely short lifespan, you don't get a single fixed value every single measurement. so is reality wrong or is your model wrong?
>>540278146Thinking as a layman you know better than physicists with decades of experience is not "having the balls to call bullshit", it's called a mental illness.
>>540278753Well you can believe, if you want, that all of reality is based around your difficulty to accurately measure something in an experiment. That things pop into existence based on measuring them or looking away from them. You cam believe these things if you want. I'm just telling you it's false. The probabilities that are calculated are real, but the wave function is some bullshit.
>>540278886I'm not some layman retard. You're some smug fucker.
>>540278886>muh appeal to jew authoritywhat a moron
>>540278922>The probabilities that are calculated are real, but the wave function is some bullshit.how do you think they calculate the probabilities you fucking moronhint: starts with a w, ends with a -avefunction
>>540279064They literally split up the probablility (observable) into this wave function thing. Because when this was all being developed in 1918 imaginary numbers were in vogue and considered very intellectual
>>540278955I mean from this thread alone you demonstrated that you don't understand>measurements ( "conscious being")>Stern-Gerlach>energy-time uncertainty>entanglementIt sounds pretty arrogant to think that the entirety of physics must be wrong instead of just your understanding. A wise person would humble themselves and start from scratch.
>>540279353>the entirety of physics must be wrongYou're a fool to believe it, since it doesn't make sense at the root. You just believe authority, that's how wacky theories like this proliferate and sustain themselves. Often the people at the head are infusing a lot of their own religious or mystical beliefs and you're coming along for the ride.>humble themselvesNah that's for the professors. When they i insist something that doesn't make sense and discard free thinking on the basis of their own authority.>Stern-GerlachYeah the particle somehow knows which direction to take based on the paths you've blocked or opened up. It would be like entering a maze and then knowing exactly which way to turn having foreknowledge of which paths were blocked or opened. Unless that particle somehow is a spaceship with forward sensors, doesn't make sense. Clearly some fucky is going on with the theory.And by the way these complex stern gerlach experiments have never really been done. It's all just a thought experiment.
>>540271693Partially true, but not entirely.
