You say, "I was born against my own will!" But let me ask you this: how can someone not be born against their own will? It is metaphysically impossible to not be born against your own will.God did not choose to be, He Is."But why eternal punishment?" Because you refuse to give up. You were born against your own will, yet now that you are alive, you are imposing your own will unto that which gave you birth. Why is this?In the beginning, you recognized yourself as not the source of judgement, yet now you sit on the judges seat and say, "My will be done," and indeed your will be done, for this is judgement: that whoever refuses to give up their own will in the face of the will of the one who brought them to life, will have plenty of what they desired.For this reason he said, "Your will be done" for those who give up their own will in the face of the will of the one who brought them to life, they will indeed share in his will and in his eternal life.What then is the will of God? "This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent."To believe is to be, and act. If you believe that the stove is hot, will you put your hand into it? How then, if you believe in him, can you not thrive to become like him?As it is said, "I have set you an example that you should do as I have done for you."Judgement is like a sieve. Why then are you trying to fit the square block inside the circural hole?To remain in him, you must share in his nature, the very nature revealed through his one and only son: love, compassion, justice, mercy and faithfulness. These are his true nature.The one who loves and knows the truth can confirm that my words are true, and he will do the will of the one who brought him to life.I am here doing his will.Now go and remain in him, and in that day, you will share in his eternal life.
Full text:https://archive.org/details/berossus-and-genesis-manetho-and-exodus-hellenistic-histories-and-the-date-of-thRussell Gmirkin proposes a revolutionary thesis: the entire Pentateuch (Genesis through Deuteronomy) was written in the third century BCE (specifically 273–272 BCE), rather than during the Persian or Exilic periods. Gmirkin argues that the text was collaboratively composed by jewish scholars in Alexandria, Egypt, and relies heavily on Hellenistic-era historical and geographical writings.Literary Dependence on Greek Texts: Rather than drawing on ancient Near Eastern oral traditions or early documents, the biblical authors made direct use of recently published Hellenistic histories housed in the Library of Alexandria.Genesis and Berossus: The creation, Garden of Eden, and flood narratives in Genesis 1–11 are uniquely and specifically dependent upon the Babyloniaca written by the Babylonian priest Berossus in 278 BCE.Exodus and Manetho: The Exodus story was largely written as a counter-narrative to the Aegyptiaca (History of Egypt) by the Egyptian historian Manetho (c. 285–280 BCE), which portrayed the ancestors of the jews as lepers and undesirable foreigners who were expelled from Egypt.The Table of Nations: The geographical and political data points in Genesis 10 (the Table of Nations) reflect the geopolitical realities of the early Hellenistic world rather than the second millennium BCE.The Septuagint Parallel: Gmirkin connects the authorship of the Hebrew Pentateuch to the jewish scholars traditionally credited with translating the Septuagint (the Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible) under Ptolemy II.State Sponsorship: He suggests the Bible was commissioned as an approved, foundational national literature for the jewish diaspora in Alexandria.
The Elephantine papyri (c. 495–399 BCE) document a Jewish military colony in Egypt that possessed its own temple to Yahu (Yahweh) and engaged in practices that contradict the Deuteronomistic law central to modern Jewish historicity. This community lacked knowledge of the Torah or written Hebrew Bible, offering sacrifices at a local temple rather than in Jerusalem, which challenges the narrative that monotheistic centralization was universally established by the Persian period.Key implications for the historicity of Judaism include:Syncretistic Worship: Inscriptions reveal the invocation of deities like Anat-Yahu and Asherah alongside Yahweh, suggesting the transition to strict monotheism occurred later or was not uniform across the Diaspora.Absence of Biblical Authority: The community’s leaders petitioned the High Priest in Jerusalem for ritual guidance but never cited biblical law, indicating the Pentateuch was not yet the authoritative text for all Judeans.Dating of Biblical Texts: Since these papyri predate all extant Hebrew Bible manuscripts, they suggest that the codification of Jewish law and the suppression of polytheistic elements may have been a later development, potentially post-dating the Persian period.Ultimately, Elephantine reveals a pluralistic religious landscape where Jewish identity was defined more by ethnic and political ties to Jerusalem than by adherence to a unified, monotheistic scripture>more evidence jewish monotheism didn't even exist before 300 BC Alexandria. None of the bible happened except echoes of Babylonian, Greek, and Egyptian creation stories and histories. Then the Hellenic jews slapped that all together and dipped it in Yahweh sauce and called it the most ancient religion on earth.
>>540413226tl;dr your wall of a.i. slop.
The Elephantine Papyri (5th century BCE) reveal a Jewish community whose religious practice conspicuously lacks core concepts that later defined normative Judaism. These absences suggest that central tenets of the Torah and Deuteronomic law were either unknown or not yet authoritative for this diaspora group.1. Absence of Biblical Narratives and PatriarchsThe most striking omission is the total lack of reference to the foundational stories of the Pentateuch.No Patriarchs or Heroes: Among over 160 Jewish names recorded, none derive from biblical figures such as Abraham, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, Samuel, or David.No Exodus Tradition: The papyri contain no mention of the Exodus from Egypt, the bondage in Egypt, or any other historical event recorded in the Torah. Scholars note that "Moses might never have existed" based solely on these texts.No Written Torah: The community never appeals to the authority of a written law or "Book of Moses" in their legal or religious disputes, even when corresponding with Jerusalem.2. Violation of Centralization and MonotheismThe community’s theology and cultic practice contradict the strict monotheism and centralization mandated in Deuteronomy.Polytheistic/Henotheistic Pantheon: Alongside Yahu (Yahweh), the papyri explicitly invoke Anat-Yahu (possibly a consort), Ashim-Bethel, and Anat-Bethel. This suggests a polytheistic or henotheistic system where Yahweh was part of a divine family, rather than the sole deity.Local Temple Sacrifices: They maintained a fully functional temple at Elephantine offering animal sacrifices and incense. This directly violates the Deuteronomic law requiring all sacrifices to be performed solely at the Temple in Jerusalem. The Jerusalem priesthood’s correspondence with them shows no condemnation of this "heretical" practice, implying the law of centralization was not yet enforced or accepted.
3. Lack of Sabbath ObservanceContrary to the later strict prohibition of work on the Sabbath, the Elephantine Jews appear to have treated the seventh day as a normal business day.Commercial Activity: Legal documents, marriage contracts, and loan agreements are explicitly dated to and executed on the Sabbath.No Ritual Rest: There is no evidence of the Sabbath as a day of rest or holy convocation in their daily life, suggesting the codification of Sabbath law was a later development or not universally binding in the 5th century BCE.4. Absence of Dietary Laws (Kashrut)The papyri show no evidence of Kashrut (kosher dietary laws).Dietary Freedom: The community’s records mention the consumption of various animals without distinction between clean and unclean species. There are no references to prohibitions against pork or shellfish, nor any separation of meat and milk, which are central to later Jewish identity.5. Different Festival ObservanceWhile they observed a "Feast of Unleavened Bread," its character differs from the biblical Passover.Agricultural vs. Historical: The festival appears to be celebrated as an agricultural harvest ritual rather than a commemoration of the Exodus. The papyri do not link the eating of matzah to the haste of leaving Egypt or the story of the plagues.Persian Influence: The instructions for this festival (the "Passover Letter") came from a Persian official (Hananiah) relaying a decree from King Darius II, rather than from biblical commandment, indicating the community relied on imperial or oral tradition rather than scripture for festival dates.
6. Non-Aaronic PriesthoodThe priestly structure at Elephantine does not align with the Aaronic lineage required by the Torah.Priestly Titles: While they had priests (kahen), there is no evidence linking them to the lineage of Aaron or the tribe of Levi as strictly defined in later biblical law. Their priesthood functioned independently of the Jerusalem hierarchy’s genealogical requirements.Last time we did this, thread got nuked. Wonder why
The Father is patient, and anyone who comes to him, he will not drive away, as it is said: "I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me."You will ask me, "Who is he?" He is the one who is. The one and only true God, he is the eternal life that gives life to everyone. He is the way, the truth, and the life. He is the way because you were created in his image. He is the truth because everything was made through him and for him. And he is the life because, if you live by the truth, you will have eternal life in him, with him.He came into the world, but the world did not receive him. He sent his Son to reveal him, but the world did not recognize him.The Father stands in front of the mirror; the image in the mirror is him, but he is not the image in the mirror. So it is with the Father and the Son. Through the Son, the Father made himself known.Or again, it is like the sun and the moon: if you look at the sun, you will become blind, but if you look at the moon, you are seeing the sun's light. The moon's light is not its own; the light belongs to the sun, and by looking at the moon, you are able to receive it. So does the Son make the invisible Father known to you. This is why "The Father is greater than I" and "I and the Father are one" are both true.The same way the Son made the invisible Father known, so are we called to make him known. Indeed, you were created in his image. "What does it mean?" To share in his nature: love, compassion, justice, mercy, and faithfulness. These are his true nature.In that day, everything false will pass away, but the truth will never pass away. Therefore, be sure to make the truth your practice and love your nature. praise him and let there be light.
>>540413226Jesus didn't teach hell. Jews at the time didn't believe in a soul separate from the body. The apocalyptic Jewish tradition Jesus came out of taught that on the day of judgement God would resurrect and judge all the dead - the righteous would get eternal life in their resurrected physical body and the wicked would get a second, final bodily death aka cease to exist. The idea of an eternal soul existing separate from the body and the soul receiving eternal reward or punishment was a Greek/Platonic idea imported by Greek speaking converts well after the time of Jesus.Also Jesus seemed to teach that God could just forgive sins (which makes sense if God is all powerful). The idea of atonement/penal substitution seems to have been invented after Jesus's death and popularized by Paul
>>540413964Why are you looking at the words of Jesus through a lens that is independent of him? He claims to be the truth, so take what he says and look at everything else through that. Why are you going to tradition or history to understand what Jesus said? Take what he said and then look at tradition and history, and what you will realize is that Jesus is the whole truth, and everything else is partial.
>>540414380Nah this is an important point that Bart Ehrman (leading New Testament scholar) makes:In the gospels Jesus never teaches that he had to die in your place for God to forgive your sins.He only says repent and God will forgive you. No mention of his upcoming crucifixion being necessary.This "doctrine of atonement" or "penal substitution" only developed after his death and Paul (a man who never personally met Jesus but claims to have had a vision of him) seems to have been the primary popularizer of it.
>>540415278I don’t think I quite understand what you are trying to say, though what I can say is that if you read his words in totality, Jesus does make many claims like, "Just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many," or, "Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son." But, of course, these could be in reference to the fact that his life was necessary in order for us to have a perfect reference point to live according to. Humans have a hard time understanding abstract ideas; that is why you need someone to show the way so that the others can then follow.
>>540415278When it comes to the idea of Paul being a false prophet, I don’t really think so. I think Paul was legit, but he was like any other human. Humans aren’t perfectly aligned with God, and neither are their words, but his mission clearly was to lead people to Christ, and Jesus himself said, "For no one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, for whoever is not against us is for us." And if someone doesn’t trust Paul, then do not listen to Paul; listen to Jesus and look at Paul through him.
>>540416227Basically I don't like the ideas of original sin or eternal hell. I don't think a just God would send people to eternal torture in the afterlife for sins committed in the relatively short ~80 years we live on this earth.The idea that God has to torture Himself to death in order to "forgive" you for envying your neighbor's donkey is also strange. It's a good cop/bad cop routine. "God the Father is gonna have you tortured for eternity unless you believe in God the Son... He's doing you such a favor, you should be grateful".Like wut? They created the problem to sell you the solution.Also if you're a believing Christian, think about this: maybe you have a disbelieving family member or friend. Maybe they're "rejecting God" because the "want to engage in sin". Maybe they're just naturally skeptical. There are all sorts of reasons people don't believe. Many are innocuous, not some bad intention.You're in heaven for a million years? A billion years? Would you really be able to enjoy it if you knew your disbelieving mother or brother were experiencing the worst torture imaginable? You go to God and say >Surely they've learned their lesson by now And God says >NOPE! They had 80 years to believe in Jesus but they didn't. Now they get eternal suffering. No chance of escape. Is that "justice"? "Gods perfect justice"? That's horrifying dude. That's not what I'd call justice.
>>540416227Anyways I've been studying Buddhism it makes more sense to me.>The universe always existed there's no supreme creator deity outside of it handing out rewards and punishments >There's no original sin only ignorance, delusion and karma>Ignorance and delusion is the source of bad actions and suffering >You yourself are responsible for removing your ignorance and delusion to stop commiting bad actions and suffering the consequences >You're reborn and suffer over and over until you remove your ignorance and become a better person through your own effortBasically you have infinite chances until you "grow up". That's a far more humane cosmology. One life then eternal bliss or eternal torture is psychotic in comparison and leads to a lot of neuroses in the Western mind imo.
HeySo I'm just not gonna worship a it (a dead jew)Ugh.. I know.. I'm sorry!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!I just don't worship dead jews is allAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA
>>540419308>>540419335Something I wrote a while ago:God doesn't punish like humans punish, nor does God judge like humans judge. God is What Is, and He judges through His being. At the last day, we will return to What Is, and anyone who is not of What Is will be with what is not. You are judged based on your being through His being. How can someone who lies remain in truth? God is Truth, and to remain in Truth, you must be aligned with Truth. Believe me, He has sent me to show you the truth so that you will remain in Him and have eternal life in Him.What does God require of me? Love truth and love others. In this, you are the image He created you to be. When I say "truth," I am not telling you to love what is factual; I am telling you to love What Is. What Is is that which is when the self dies. Do not ask, "What do I want?", "How should it be?", or "What benefits me?" All these come from the evil one. Instead, ask, "What is?" and let What Is become what you want. Let it be how it is, and let it be what you need."What about the children or the disabled?" I tell you: everyone is judged according to what they were given. If it is said that someone who is given much, much more will be required, what about the one who was given nothing or very little? I tell you: the children and the disabled will enter the kingdom before the wise men do, for they lived according to the little they were given, while those who were given much did not put it into practice. I tell you: the blind and the deaf and the mute and all kinds of disabled have produced fruit since the day they were born. For whoever looks at one who is blind, a seed was planted in them. They have produced much though they were given little.
>>540413964>Jesus didn't teach hell.Matthew 5:29 “If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.” – Matthew 5:29Matthew 10:28 “Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.” – Matthew 10:28Mark 9:43 “If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out.” – Mark 9:43Luke 12:5 “But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after your body has been killed, has authority to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him.” – Luke 12:5Revelation 20:15 “Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.” – Revelation 20:15Stop listening to joke scholars and read the text. >>540419335
>>540419308>>540419335People misunderstand what eternity is. They think of it as an infinite amount of time. No: eternity is when you live straight from "What Is," when time ceases to exist.
>>540420429>God doesn't punish like humans punish, nor does God judge like humans judge.>>540420619>People misunderstand what eternity is.That's cool. What are your three favorite songs?
>>540420859iGRES - MECHA DREAMVØJ - MoonlitSecret Society - NeoperreoYours?
There you go jannies. Clean it up.
>>540413964>Also Jesus seemed to teach that God could just forgive sins (which makes sense if God is all powerful). The idea of atonement/penal substitution seems to have been invented after Jesus's death and popularized by PaulGod is perfectly just and perfectly merciful.these two natures clash with one another. if God allows sins he is not just, but also if he enacts justice his mercy is not shown.this is why God incarnated and let the justice for sin enacted on his perfect sinlessnes in order to show mercy to them that believe in Jesus perfect atoning sacrifice.both justice for sin was enacted and God being able to be perfectly merciful towards sinners.
I wasn't an atheist until I saw you guys are all liars and no different from the others. not my problem
