>Iran won because they inflicted more damage to themselves than if they made a deal!Poltoid logic.
you are one hell of a retarded migger. that or bait.
>>540420691Hormussy status?
>>540420691no you don't understand the iranians are based because they got their shit blown up it's 4-D chess
Why does this same kike spend the entire day spamming the board?
>>540420691Yes, libturds are that mentally deranged (and far worse).
>>540420691Jews and their golems still can't explain how starting this war was in the best interests of the average American.
>>540420964because iran would not otherwise agree to stop pursuing nuclear weapons
>>540421047> because iran would not otherwise agree to stop pursuing nuclear weaponswhere has iran agreed to stop pursing nuclear weapons because of this you disgusting neocohen
>>540421047the average American would be better off if Iran had nuclear weapons because Israel and America would leave them the fuck alone and stop starting stupid wars in the region
>>540420897lol
what this war is being fought for is pic related
Iran won because it maintained continuity of government and managed to (most likely) secure a long term geopolitical objective in demonstrating the ability to close the Strait of Hormuz and charge tolls on up to 20% of the world's petroleum products. They additionally displayed the ability to endure US airstrikes and essentially proved US promises of protection against it completely false -- we categorically could not intercept enough Iranian strikes on any of our regional partners. In return, what did America accomplish? Well, we killed basically everyone at the head of the regime to start the war. We inflicted serious attrition on the Iranian military. We likely delayed access to Iran's nuclear program impermanently. I'm honestly not sure what else we did or why we could claim victory. Part of the problem is that Trump's victory conditions were poorly defined. If the goal of the war was to kill Khomeini, well, that's narrowly successful, but if it is a victory it's likely pyrrhic... it came at the cost of invalidating our promises of protection and additionally gave Iran strategic control over Hormuz. If our goal was attrition... that's just stupid. Factories can be rebuilt, and killing even 10,000 Iranian soldiers is a drop in the bucket for a country with a population of 90m. Attritional war is simply not taken seriously by modern military science absent extremely specific constraining factors -- the military record is just so completely full of attritional wars that it can be conclusively stated that attrition is a terrible foundation for a war. It's what you end up with after everything else fails except the political will to continue. It's not something you start with.
>>540421441> In return, what did America accomplish?depleted its entire ammunitions and strategic oil reserves and once the artificial inflating of oil prices end, we will see oil prices sky rocketso that’s accomplishing something.
>>540421047America and Europe would be better off if Israel got nuked by Iran. No more immigration support, center of jewish crime destroyed, and significsnt portions of all three religiousbsites would be destroyed, thus eliminating millenia of prophecy-based conflict.
>>540421580forgot my pic. trump straight up admitted we lost.
>>540421047Who the fuck is going to stop them? How are these attacks going to mean shit in 5 years, unless you never leave the region?
>>540420691You lost tranny
>>540420691They won't because they didnt cave to our government terrorism.
>>540420691Iran won cause US barked and no bite
>>540421691> Who the fuck is going to stop them?nothingtrump knows this. that’s why this is never gonna end. even when trump’s presidency ends, this shit will still be going on. there will be a few fake ceasefires when they need de radicalize people, but Gaza is a prime example of how these “ceasefires” go, took 90% of gaza snd wants to disarm hamas without israel leaving.
>>540421580I do believe that, in a sense, broader conclusions about American military strength are likely premature. Putting Trump at the head of the American military is very close to putting a five-year-old behind the wheel of an F1 car. It's an immensely capable vehicle, sure, but if your ability to operate it is poor, you're not going to get good results with it in anything but a straight line. It's also not going to perform very well if you tell it to crash into a brick wall. In a very real way, I think Trump took a capable machine, assigned it an impossible task, and then operated that machine extremely poorly to boot. You really just can't fix stupid -- even the might of what most likely still is the most powerful military force in the history of the world couldn't fix Trump's insipid strategic decisions.
>>540420691>a giant bully getting his ass handed to him is invalidated because his victim hurt his wrist during the fight
>>540420691What deal? Trump doesn't even know what the fuck he wants from Iran.
>>540421180they haven't, hence why the war is still going>>540421216that doesn't follow>>540421611No actually it would just result in millions of irradiated jews coming to the US and building more holocaust museums
oh us completely destroyed its international reputation and burned all our military and economic alliances with other nationsexpect israel. its weird how they keep popping up in all this.
>>540422072it obviously follows dickbrainNorth Korea got nukes and nobody messes with themIraq and Iran got attacked because they didn't
>>540422125that doesn't mean it's good for us, it means they have more power to harm us
>>540422149Why would Iran want to harm us if we were no longer sticking our dick into the Middle East?
>>540422072>they haven't, hence why the war is still goingits NEVER going to end. the only way you do that is a complete overthrow of Iranian government. That requires ground troops. Saddam’s government was not overthrown by the no fly zone over it. it was massive invasion of troops. hence this dog and pony show continues till us collapses or new president
>>540422149>why is peace and prosperity a good thing?uhhhh
>>540422149>they haven't, hence why the war is still going“us” or israel?
>>540421441Trump defind the victory objectives though, regime change, an end to Iran's ballistic missile and drone program, an end to their proxies in the region, destroying their navy, securing their enriched uranium and preventing them from ever being able to enrich uranium in the future, he publicly said all these things, most of these things were said in the original video that was put outhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i03vW40EDI8
>>540422187>Why would Iran want to harm us if we were no longer sticking our dick into the Middle East?for example, maybe they want to help russia win in ukraine or help china somehow and decide to restrict certain types of trade through the strait that would benefit us
>>540420691Many /pol/acls are retards (majority brown by now) that don't understand that both sides can lose in a war. They see US influence declining therefore "Iran won", it doesn't go beyond that.
>>540420691Iran will be rebuilt with your tax dollars. They don't care about a few daycares, girls schools and Christian artifacts getting leveled. It's all on our tab in the end. We don't have a presence in the region and cannot appoint ourselves judge and jury over international matters. It isn't our oil, it isn't our waterway, it isn't our conflict.
>>540422262> Overview +1 On October 10, 1941, the Nazi party newspaper Völkischer Beobachter ran a massive headline declaring: "The Campaign in the East is Over!"the modern day equivalent was trump march 7 tweet
>>540422350War is more than getting more kills the the enemy you fucking spastic, just because you win a war it also doesn't mean you suffered no damage yourself, as Clausewitz said, war is politics by other means
>>540422276North Korea has more capacity to harm the US now that it has nukes and Americans are better off for it because it means the USA keeps its dick out of a war in Korea.The US government hates other countries getting nukes but what the government wants has nothing to do with the welfare of American people.
>>540422350> that don't understand that both sides can lose in a war. They see US influence decliningdue to LOSING a war. we are declining into an irrelevant shitty cuckhold regional that does to china kisses xi’s ass cause he’s the real world leader
>>540422440than the enemy*
>>540421441>Iran won because it maintained continuity of governmentThis might be my favorite cope itt, lolMy God.
>>540422462> North Korea has more capacity to harm the US now that it has nukesmaybe we shouldn’t have killed 20% of the population in 1950-1953?
>>540422262Which of those were accomplished, again?
>>540422554See >>540422262 the US has achieved zero of its strategic objectives in the war, the war has become about the Strait of Hormuz, you're the only one coping here
>>540422554>here is this 90 year old man with cancer i killed that turned into a martyr with 45+ million people attending his funeral in a war zone. largest funnel in existence. can’t say same for trumpholy retardation
>>540422628None, I never said he accomplished any of them(because he didn't) but you said "Trump's victory conditions were poorly defined" which they weren't, they were clearly defined just never achieved
>>540422554It's your "favorite" because it's the only one you can possibly twist into something approaching a statement which inaccurately reflects reality because we killed a lot of the Iranian leadership.The problem for you is that if you define a regime as broader than just "the guy who happens to be ruling at this point in time," the regime very much hasn't been changed at all. There's no Iranian democracy. It's still just the theocracy. If anything, all we've done is entrench the IRGC.
>>540422711Gotcha. I said that because Trump himself was all over the place in the days and weeks following the start of the war. It's one thing to say a prepared statement at the outset, but it's another entirely to say a bunch of different things in the aftermath. I think hindsight renders this clearer than it actually was at any point during the hot phase of the war. The way Trump talked about the war, its state, and its objectives lent serious credence to the idea that Trump actually had no plan at all. The fact that he seemingly totally overlooked the possibility that Iran could close Hormuz further solidifies this impression. You can make a good argument for the idea that his press conference was polishing a turd.
>>540422946His changing statements as the war went on have more to do with the fact that it became clearer and clearer that the objectives set out from the outset of the war were clearly not going to be achieved, so as to not be humiliated Trump wound down the objectives so he could claim victory, by the end of it it just became about Iran's stockpile of enriched uranium and the Strait of Hormuz, now it's just about the Strait of Hormuz
>>540423139soon it will be “pls iran can we stay in middle east”iran now says it wants yemen and gaza wars ended. us can’t give israel or saudis those things.
>>540420691Did Iran break the preconditions of a peace deal? No.Did you break the preconditions of a peace deal? Yes.Is Iran accepting any new negotiation proposals? No.Is the war over? No.Are your "allies" growing more hateful and spiteful against you for suffering the consequences of your war? Yes.Are your arms depleted? Yes.Can you open the strait? No.Are your strategic oil reserves depleted? Yes.Are your citizens disgruntled by your retarded actions? Yes.Should you have fucked around with Persia? No.I'm sorry but all evidence is stacked against your case. Iran's war goal is to survive.
>>540423335Shut your stupid mouth. Now please.
>>540423402wow its fucking nothing. you realizes iranians are more bloodthirsty for revenge than their government right?
>>540423402>pajeet GPT>pls don't tell the truthHow much are you offering?
>>540423139I'm not sure anything became clearer to Trump at any point until very recently. There's no good evidence for that. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to be drawing a distinction between what Trump says and what he "really believes" -- i.e. that as he's flip-flopping madly between asserting the need for the fulfillment of a victory condition and then declaring it already fulfilled, he's maintaining underneath it all a coherent understanding of what's going on in Iran. I don't think there's good evidence for that, either. Trump is famous for never being able to handle being told "no." It's why he had so much chaos and turnaround in the first administration in his cabinet officials. They were telling him "no" to his ideas and then either resigning or being fired shortly thereafter. Not very many people are resigning or being fired this time around. The two possible interpretations are either that Trump has gotten better at accepting advice/contradiction or that no one is telling him "no" anymore. Do you think Pete Hegseth is going to tell Trump "no"? He'll take a real hard look at returning to being a fucking weekend Fox News host and then tell Trump whatever he wants to hear. This is the nature of personalized power. His environment shapes itself around him. I think Trump displayed in real time the total absence of any institutional victory conditions. He's a liar, sure, but he can only lie about things he understands. He was expressing his own fundamental lack of a realistic model of what was going on in Iran. Because the nature of personalized power is such that it depends on the model of one man...Yeah, we never had a real victory condition. Trump himself saw to that.
>>540422946>>540423139For example after Trump signed the MoU in France he was publicly stating it's only fair if Iran does have ballistic missiles because other countries in the region has them too, that Iran can enrich uranium because they need it for energy, he wound back the US objectives because it was clear that the US was never going to be able to achieve them(without a ground invasion) it seems the entire plan surrounding winning the war rested upon the assumption that Iran would surrender after the US assassinated their leadershiphttps://www.youtube.com/shorts/p091LEgg4iohttps://www.youtube.com/shorts/xnSWHhlXbXg
>>540423611He sidelined Pete Hegseth after it became obvious that the war was a failure and then promoted Vance to lead negotiations with Iran, Vance has been reported as the only person in Trump's inner circle to push back against against his planned war, to his face
>>540423650Talk is cheap when you're stalling for time.Why did he break the MoU?
>>540423868>Vance has been reported as the only person in Trump's inner circle to push back against against his planned war, to his faceVance is the LITERAL only person Trump can't fire.
>wars without conquest fought by countries with disposable rulersso tiresome
>>540424196Sure but it doesn't change the fact that Trump pivoted to negotiations and chose Vance to lead them, the only guy who was against the war to start with, and Hegseth was sidelined, he used to give regular public announcements about the war, remember? You don't even hear from him anymore
>>540422440The Soviet Union's losses in WWII were greater than the Germans'.According to the neocohen tards the Germans won....
>>540420691Iran won because it endured and emerged in a better position than when the war began. America lost because it went to great lengths and expense to achieve none of its objectives.
>>540424375>Trump pivoted to negotiationsThen shat on negotiations, showing everything was done in bad faith to stall for time.JIDF is not sending its best fecaloids.
>>540422554RIP in peace means Rest in peace in peace Trump and his followers are so fucking stupid
>>540422946He is a narcissistic retard.The Jews know this and approached him immediately after the Maduro operation when he thought he was some military genius for kidnapping the retarded president of a bankrupt shithole.
>>540424705>his followersFecaloids and kikes were never known for having a high degree of intelligence, but they are known to act smart until retards believe it.
>>540420691Did America win the Vietnam war? If so, what did we win?>spend billions of dollars>lose thousands of men>millions more who lived but will never be the same again>don't even defeat the enemyIn asymmetric war like nearly all recent ones, the ostensibly weaker state surviving the other's assault is impressive in itself, but in the case of Iran, they actually came out better.>US spends billions on the war>makes everything worse for ourselves>our allies have less trust in us knowing we'll launch wars without consulting anyone else>price of everything increasing>forced to grovel to Iran to beg them to let us GO BACK to how things were beforeMeanwhile Iran is now a world power. We killed their leader and thousands of their people, and they are now a stronger, richer country because they can actually harness their leverage in a way we never expected. We lost, we gained nothing, they won, accept it zogbot.
>>540421047im sure now that they have won the war and control the strait they will stop. Also 2 more weeks for 30 years. Also, how is it not in everyone's interest that they nuke israel?
>>540420691Iran had it's leadership assassinated by Israel during peace negotiations, forcing retaliation.Iran then proceeded to beat Israel in a conventional war. The USA was unable to stop this, however, to be fair, the USA clearly never expected Israel to do something that stupid. Iran therefore, proved that it can fight, proved that it was holding back and proved that it wasn't lying when it said it didn't need nukes to defeat Israel, and that it could defeat Israel with conventional warfare. Iran also defeated numerous gulf states too.Trump obviously knows this and is obviously annoyed with Israel. Because of the precedent of assassination being set by Israel, that probably contributed to the rest of NATO refusing to take part in a war they clearly have been wanting going back to the Arab Spring.Strategically, Trump looked like he was going to do a manoeuvre comparable to the one he did with North Korea, but because Israel attacked leadership, Iran had to retaliate and because of US posturing and the requirement of it having a reputation of being a straight up insane predator state, meant the military had to unleash.Breaking the global economy however is actually quite a positive thing because global economics is part of the strategy for the liberal world order, so forcing people to rely less on trade or more regional trade, actually works to this end.
>>540420691Shut the fuck up with your faggot deals, orange nigger. You need to call Obama and let him show you how it's done.
>>540424816>the ostensibly weaker state surviving the other's assault is impressive in itself, but in the case of Iran, they actually came out better.Bombing is usually a precursor of the assault that never came unless we count the flop of trying to retrieve nuclear material from Fordow.>Meanwhile Iran is now a world power. Regional. It always was but now Iran was forced to project its power to make a point.>We lost, we gained nothing, they wonIt's not over yet, but you will never employ people who are known for defeating Persia.Give me 30k Greeks, one year to organize my army and a black horse with a white spot on its forehead. I'll turn things around for you and your masters from Israel, not because I love you or the kikes but because I can.
>>540421441>Iran won because it maintained continuity of government
>>540425182>the Ghost of Teheran is keeping the strait closedKEKAROO nigger.
>>540425144>Greeks band together to defeat the persians>Spartan FAGGOTS later team up with persians to beat AtheniansSadly the Greeks have always been infiltrated by cryptokike subversives
>>540420849Closed for them and theirs too. Notionally they are more dependent on it than we are. Significant amounts of global trade has transitioned to seeking exports from us instead. Real countries are building massive infrastructure to bypass their chimpout lane. It will take time but invalidate large parts of their regional geopolitical influence in the long run. It's kinda like how Justice Ruckus called the pinkos on Roe v Wade being unconstitutional as fuck after 50 years of them being massive niggers about it because they thought no one would dare. Turns out their bluster and tantrum was mostly that. The straight being closed fucks the chinks and jeets the hardest and I'm more or less OK with that. Our allies in the middle East have always been poster children for fair weather friends at the best of times. I'm mostly disappointed Iran won't hit the kikes harder. Is it really too much to ask that they actually get seriously fucked up for forcing this war and expecting us to do the heavy lifting and all the bleeding for them again? We already spent 20 years in the sandbox in this lifetime on their behalf and they laughed about it the whole time. Maybe just for once they can choke on their own shit and deal with it. We'll hold the blockade and bomb the fuck out of the sandniggers until they get hungry and quit.
>>540425279Antipater defeated Spartans. Athenians were negligible "men" with a good geographic and cultural position.
>>540425329>Real countries are building massive infrastructure to bypass their chimpout lanei'm sure they'll manage to do it before their oil reserves run out
>>540425329>Notionally they are more dependent on it than we are.Notionally Trump and the Republicans are dependent on oil not being over 4 bucks a gallon by the mid terms. Iran has them by the balls, just like they had Carter.
>>540425656Notionally. We'll see. Trump's ability to flat-out bullshit himself out of notionally inescapable situations has always been the X-factor. The redistricting fuck-fuck games might also end up being extremely influential, even though Trump historically can't get people to show up for downticket races. Additionally, Trump has been setting the stage for literal and unironic federal election interference. Not only has he done everything he possibly can to stack the deck in his favor, he might genuinely try to rig it... again.
>>540420691>Make Deal >The US (((decides))) that you are actually violating the deal even though you aren't and every single other party and independent org says you are abiding by the terms of the deal; therefore they pull out and kill one of you commanders and come very close to war >Make Deal>Trump (((Suddenly))) decides the deal he'd agreed to is no longer acceptable and adds more demands>Return to negotiating deal>US uses negotiations twice as a cover to sneak attack you >Make another deal where you control traffic through straits and all ships have to work with you>The US immediately(day one) tries to get countries to undermine this>Iran enforces this by firing on a ship(not even sinking it or killing anyone that I know of) not going through the approved route you both agreed ships would have to go through>The US has an autistic meltdown and starts screaming about how you violated the deal and can never be trustedThe real question is why would Iran ever trust the US again? Why would anyone? They've really become total scumbags
>>540421047they did agree, it was called the jcpoa
>>540425860Bullshit only works on people who can be bullshitted.Trump couldn't bullshit himself out of dealing with a deadly virus (why he lost in 2020) and he can't bullshit himself out of starting a war with religious fanatics who control the world's gas prices. The Iranians know every nuance of the American political system, they have every reason to inflict as much pain on Americans in general as they can, and pain on Trump and the Republicans in particular so nobody ever tries to fuck with them again.
>>540420691Iran won because they prevented the US and Israel from attaining their strategic objectives.
>>540420897They didn't get their shit blown up though. They actually beat up basically all the US allies that side of the gulf and especially beat up Israel. In a previous war, the UK air force actually had to scramble to protect Israel from Iran during Israel's defeat. During peace negotiations Israel tried to start the war again. By just about every metric, given how bad the situation was, Iran came out looking like the saner country with self restraint. In a very ironic twist, they were kind of like the Spartans at Thermopylae.
>>540421216Nuke's are obsolete, and Israel has nukes, it still got it's ass kicked.
>>540420691I don't see Iran kvetching. Muh golden age Blumpf truth social's seem pretty irate and somewhat desperate
>>540426214Nukes are not obsolete, they just don't work the way you think they do. Nukes are the ultimate deterrent. They work as awesome defensive weapons and nothing else. If you have nukes, nobody can invade you. That doesn't mean you can win a war you started against another country, because nobody wants the consequences of aggressive use of a nuke.This is why the USA is so obsessed with nonproliferation. Every country that gets a nuke is another country they can't invade or fuck with, and the USA wants to invade and fuck with as many countries as possible forever.
>>540426088If these past ten-odd years haven't sufficiently proven it yet, we are an eminently bullshittable people. We have been shaped from birth to be willing receptacles for almost every type of bullshit that doesn't ask us to make a personal sacrifice or imagine for even a moment that we aren't exceptional by virtue of the geographical circumstances of birth. For what it's worth, if I had to make a bet, I'd still bet on democrats at least taking the House. The Senate is in play, but I'd be surprised if Ds took 51 seats. It's plausible, but nowhere near guaranteed. Still, I wouldn't at all be surprised if redistricting plus interference at the polls (e.g. ICE on every corner) led to Trump retaining control. A full blown constitutional crisis of many different varieties is totally plausible within the next six months.
>>540426463>We have been shaped from birth to be willing receptacles for almost every type of bullshit that doesn't ask us to make a personal sacrificeWhich is what the Iran war is doing when gas prices spike and everyday life becomes unaffordable. Iran controls the levers of inflation in a way that Trump can't stop. This is the first time, ever, an overseas war had immediate painful consequences for the average flag waving Israel supporting American. Suddenly, they are making a personal sacrifice. Trump is fucked.
>>540426147>Iran>They didn't get their shit blown up though.What is life like over there on the other side of reality?
>>540426612Intellectually, I understand that you're making good points and raising the right exceptions. I've just seen Trump squirm his way out of things too many times to ever feel confident about a future outcome where his self-interest is involved. I would say that only the past is concrete where Trump is involved, but even that is STILL too firm a statement when a solid third of the country believes Trump won in 2020, another third can't be fucked to even make it to the polls on a presidential election year, and the remainder is constantly divided by identity politics.
>>540425329>>540426891Trump has the lowest approval ratings of any president in modern history. MIGA is fucked
>>540426891I also think you'd underrating the degree to which Trump's support was founded on him not starting stupid wars. I remember why he actually did well in 2016. I was watching his speeches at the primaries. It wasn't a cult of personality. It was the fact he wasn't part of DC's corruption and warmongering. His biggest applause lines were when he criticised the Iraq war. Now sure he turned out to be a liar, but the point is he's also done the one thing which alienated the grass roots isolationists in MAGA. They won't vote for the other side but they also just won't show up.
>Guize they cant ship oil out WE WONHmmm if only there was some other way to move oil, on like something that isnt water or air. You'd need like this thing thst goes really fast over whatever it is, probably on 4 wheels ahhh jeez hmm whats it called.
>>540427221My model of MAGA is a bit darker, I think. I don't see an ideological movement at all these days. I see a group of people who have lost so much -- friends, family, jobs, opportunities -- over the course of prosecuting their side of the culture war that they no longer have a psychological out. They've invested so much in themselves in this internecine conflict that exiting it is not just a political loss but the loss of a personal identity -- the admission that all of what they lost was for nothing, or even worse than nothing. I think that a solid third of America is still firmly in the grips of this phenomenon, and that for most of them, Trump's betrayal can still be metabolized through their identity. I think the division we see in a large way is attempts by the people who keep their heads sufficiently above the game that they can think about where the game needs to move -- I don't think most people are capable of this. At the end of the day, the old Red Tribe, Blue Tribe game might be enough to keep Trump with the upper hand despite the betrayals. Maybe I'm wrong. I hope I'm wrong.
>>540420691irregulars as weakened countrys win if they dont lose, imperialists lose if they not win... how to not understand that little kikeshill?
>>540420691Lmao
The amount of Jews and neocons on this board now is insane.
>>540421047Explain why is BAD that IRAN gets Nukes? No COUNTRY (Sane) Will ever use nukes cause MAD.They simple exist as a deterrent from land invasions. ISRAEL on the other hand was desperate cause the moment Iran got nukes, all hopes of ever conquering that land will disappear. As Far as "How to stop physical wars" is concerned, ALL Countries should have nukes and see who fucking Blinks 1st and resets the clock to stone age.
