I've noticed that /pol/ often times has a normie-tier understanding of what fascism is.I wrote this text in a different thread on /his/ but I wanted to share it here.Fascism is basically the combination of 3 pillars:1. Revolutionary nationalism2. Authoritarian statism3. Economic corporatismIn order for a state to be considered fascist, these criterias must be met. States like modern China is nationalistic and authoritarian but its not considered fascist. States like modern Turkey under Erdogan likewise.People very often confuse the revolutionary nationalism part for just common nationalism. Just because you believe in strong nationalism, even extreme nationalism, does not make you a fascist. Nassers Egypt was extremely nationalistic and wanted to "rejuvinate" Egypt of its former glory, but he was not a fascist. Even Salazars Portugal is generally not considered fascist.The nationalism in fascism is about turning nationalism into a mass-movement. To get everyone engage, to turn the idea of the nation into a quasi religion, the state exceeds the material world and instead embodies your soul and identity to the point that you all wear the same uniforms and participate in mass rallies and join state organizations at an early age. The idea is the same as communism; in order for communism to work, everyone must be tuned into the idea that they represent something new, they are members of a new society and work for a common goal for a new golden age. The difference is that for fascism is alliegence to the state. For communism its the alliegence to the class.This is in direct contrast to common authoritarian nationalism like China because those countries wants the opposite: They want the masses to remain politically retarded, to stay out of the way, to let politics only be a matter for the state, to hammer down anyone who sticks their nose up.1/2
2/2People also get confused with the economic aspect of fascismThe reason for this is because it's because it destroys the narrative that fascism is capitalismNearly every fascist party across the globe had corporatism as its economic doctrine. This is because the prototype for fascism was called National-Syndicalism. The Spanish Falangists even maintained economic syndicalism.Corporatism essentially means that the economy is organized by the state. It means everything and everyone serves the state and the state interest. The economy is controlled. The market is controlled. Production and workers are controlled.The reason it gets confused with capitalism is because fascism tolerated private businesses, but only if they served state interests. It's closer to a collectivis systemThe idea was to 'harmonize' society. The fascists were strongly anti-socialists because socialism advocated for class-struggle. The fascist did not believe in class-struggle and viewed it as divisive. The fascist wanted total unity under the state so corporatism was the most ideal economic model. The best way to understand fascism is to think of a political ideology that would bring TOTAL fanatic unity to the state and make the state as powerful as possible. This is why fascism is opposed any kind of individualism - The state triumphs all your other identities. It's why fascism loathed socialism - Your only objective is to serve the state, not classFinally, fascism in its theoretical doctrine has nothing to do with raceNo fascist manifesto ever spoke about raceThe Italian fascist party had one of the largest amount of jewish membersThe Brazilian fascist Integralism openly embraced a mutli-ethnic fascist stateThis myth comes from the fact that Germany created an offshoot movement centered on volkism where race and blood was critical, and that that other states gradually adopted their policies to appease Germany (Mussolini included once Italy was firmly a junior partner to Germany)
Would you say that Franco was a fascist?
Side note:I want to add that the reason fascism generally speaking rejects the idea of race is the same reason it rejects the socialist class-struggle; the fascist wants to bring total unity under the state and it wants the people to cast away their identity and instead embrace the state as their identity. It's unity above all else to the state.Arguments can be made that fascist corporatism can still be classified as capitalism by using the collective term of State-capitalism. The problem with this term however is that it completely waters down and inflates the meaning of capitalism, and that 'State-Capitalism' becomes a catch-all term that can essentially be applied to nearly all communist states as well since according to this defition, key aspects that defines capitalism can be completely neglected.Personally I am very much opposed the argument that fascist corporatism is a form of capitalism. Private businesses were tolerated but were completely subservient to the state interests, with an economy and market organized by the state. Such regulations cannot coexist with capitalism and even if you would argue this, then the immediate confession would have to be that socialism has never been achieved either, because in no state did the workers ever control the means of production. It either served state interests or private interests.
>>540444709No, because again, you need revolutionary nationalism to be a fascist, and revolutionary nationalism means you want to destroy and replace the current order, that includes a conservative state order, and create a new mobilized society. Franco did not want the reinvent the idea of the spanish man and the spanish state, he wanted to preserve it. He was a conservative traditionalist who advocated for church and monarchy, for existing interests of the elite and the traditions.He was more of the 'traditional' dictator. The one that merely wants you to comply and remain politically neutered. Again, if fascism was merely conservative dictatorship, then we would have an inflation of fascism. Saudi Arabia is not fascist just because it meets these criterias.Again, if you have a hard time understanding of what I am saying, think of communism as your guideline. Many founding fathers of fascism began their careers as socialists, this includes Mussolini, and Mussolini kept thinking of himself as a socialist even to his final days. This is not a coincidence.The communist way of viewing their movements and their way of manifesting it mirrors fascism. Communists wanted every citizen to cast away their former identity and understanding of their traditional order. It was to transform the way which indidivuals understand themselves and their purpose in life. The communists just like the fascists advocated for the idea of "the new man".In order for communism to work, EVERYONE must be programmed to this mindset. You cant half-ass it in order to create an ideal communist society. Everyone has to understand they cannot pursue their own individual ambition. They are in it for the collective project. This is exactly what fascism wants, by the letter.Fascism wants everyone to participate, in mass rallies, in unions (those approved by the state), in youth organizations, in parades, in education. In case you havent noticed, this is exactly applied on communism, to the letter
bump
Seems like /pol/ is uninterested. Shame
>>540444522why is socialism always an entire mental gymnastics JUNGLE to try and explain how they're going to convert apples into orangesI'm not even convinced communism or socialism is real at this point what the fuck are we even talking aboutseriously half the words in one of these posts are just political system names
>>540445987because you arent saying anything that isnt known to people who have above a room temperature IQ and have been here for too longAnd people who have brown IQs saw an actual effort post that required reading without a lust provoking image and ignored it.cast not pearls before swine if you want a pat on the back
>>540446156These ideologies were created during a turbulent time of the 1800 and early 1900 when industry and globalism had taken form, when the idea of citizenship and nation emerged which uprooted the entire social hierarchy, when cultural movements like romanticism became popular, and that's why these ideologies often have these biblical perspectives on society.I like to think of socialism and fascism as these guys who simply said "this society sucks, how can we make it better". The socialists wanted an egalitarian system of fairness from poverty. The fascist wanted purpose and meaning, something more than just going to work, come home, buy stuff.The ideology seems alien to us because they're outdated. Today its mostly just cosplaying academics.
>>540446652I've seen in multiple threads how anons clearly have no idea what fascism is and essentially repeat the exact same myths and propaganda as normies (leftists) do.They dont understand the economic doctrines of fascism, and they dont understand the nationalist aspect of fascism.They think fascism is basically just racist conservative authoritarian militarism and what not.
>>540446681>The fascist wanted purpose and meaning, something more than just going to work, come home, buy stuff.I don't have a solid grasp on the idea of fascism but yeah, if we look at things from the typical dichotomy of socialism versus anti-socialism, that sounds about right.>All people are equal and should be raised to the same levelbeing the left position,>All people should have equal opportunitybeing the centre position>We should prioritise our own people over othersbeing the right positionAnd the right position really is about a sense of belonging and purpose.
>>540446879The main reason why fascism falls into the "Far-right" political folder is thus almost entirely because of its nationalism, which is problematic.Because we no longer categorize an ideology based on whether it is cosmopolitan or nationalistic. This classifications came from the French Revolution. In the modern ideological scale, what is left depends on how much state intervention there should be economically, politically and socially in order to create a more egalitarian system. Whereas the right is defined by less state intervention in order to promote flexibility to create opportunity.It's also problematic because most (if not all) communist regimes turned extremely nationalistic, yet we dont define them as far-right.It is also the fact that nationalism has historically be aligned with left movements, de-colonization and many European seperatist movements being an example.
>>540444522what the fuck is corporatism? China is full of state corporations
Yeah, try to separate state from culture and culture from ethnicity without falling into some variation of globalism. I'd say nations should be their own organizational unit for the sake of operational synergy and keep the world colourful, while the fundamental values should be based on natural law so geopolitics converge over time. Left and right being sold as opposites is a big tell they are in reality complementary. People should give up the labels to invite critical thinking more often.
>>540444792I thought they modeled the state with German anthropology
>>540447180It means that both the worker and the business are subservient to state interests. In corporatism a business can only exist within a state-approved group created and organized by the state. Production must align with and cooperate with the state ambitions.The idea is to create total unity and to maximize state power.Yes China has many characteristics of Corporatism, maybe not in theory but definetly in practice.
>>540444605>Corporatismcomes from the italian Corporazione. it means the incorporating of employee and employer by a state apparatus, it subvert and destroy the class struggle and replaces it with the common goal of advancing the State.tankies usually misread it as Capitalist Corp, which is stupid as the average neo-commie is
>>540448311Yeah I would also argue that corporatism is more a 'left' economic structure than 'right'. The lines between corporatism and socialism is extremely blurred. Corporatism has far more collectivism in it than it has capitalism.National-Syndicalism (the prototype to fascism) was literally about being anti-capitalist while also hate marxists for their combative class-struggle.
>>540444522>>540445987Brevity is the soul of wit. Make it 5 lines or less.
>>540448457Left-Right dichotomy brakes down when seen from a fascist lens, it's useless. Fascism is more collectivist than say Capitalism and MUCH more than liberal-Capitalism (neoliberalism) we have today. There's a price to pay for the Fascist safety, prosperity and order and that's freedom but considering only the super rich are truly free in a neolib society it's a price much of the goyim would be willing to pay. hence all the demonizing propaganda against Fascism. it's dangerous because it works and can uproot the current elite
>>540448646>Make it 5 lines or lessNope, because that would essentally just make it propaganda, and nothing would have changed.
>>540445987who cares? what difference does it make what you call it? It's not like chemistry, where once you identify an element you can predict what will happen when you mix it with something. What does calling something Fascism enable you to do? Nothing. You can't predict what it will do because the strongman who is in charge can and will do whatever he wants.
>>540445751Ok but also noting that part of the difference between Italian and German nationalism on the one hand and Spanish and Portuguese on the other is that the former were made-up nations while the latter had actual centuries-long histories
>>540449976Very few can accurately describe it, let alone understand it.Yet everyone insist on using it.I think this is a problem.
>>540450381Wrong. And I can see what your problem is.Your problem is that you're confusing state with nation.The German and Italian nation had existed for roughly as long as the Spanish and Portugese nation.All 4 of them did not think in the term of nation until the early 19th century, when citizen replaced subjects. The German and Italian states emerged as a consequence of the idea of nation replacing the old system.Also, many nations can exist without the state.
