Paganism/Polytheism is not a sufficient religion for the white man because it does not offer any supreme moral truths. This was pointed out 2500 years ago by Socrates of Athens, in the Euthyphro Dialogue. A white man needs to believe in higher values. Where does a Pagan derive moral truth from? What makes something Good to a pagan?
>>540463416All Truth comes from God. Christ is King.Repent.
>i need my magic jew books to tell me whats good and badlmfao, I get honest second hand embarrasment reading christcuck logic
>>540463416Do you need a book to tell you not to eat your own shit?
>>540463416Wrong. Also, you did not read that dialogue. You project a semitic notion onto Greek philosophy.Read Nicomachean Ethics. No God is needed. Even a catholic like Anscombe acknowledged this.
>>540463946>>540463953You can name plenty of actions that portray the essence of goodness, but in reality, THE good is something that exists separately from those things themselves. When you say something is "good" what does that actually mean? morality is inherently a supernatural concept. its not something that can be measured, you can't see it, you can't hear it.>>540464080>Also, you did not read that dialogue. You project a semitic notion onto Greek philosophy.How? Socrates was talking to a follower of Hellenism when he asked him "Is it good because the gods say it is good, or do the gods say it is good because it is good"? and of course, the hellenist is forced to conceed that the gods dont determine what good is.
>>540463416I've actually been reading Plato recently.It's not quite the revelation people say.Half the dialogues go>dear friends, what is courage/friendship/virtue20 pages later>I-i. don't know <end>
>>540464138Well you haven't been reading it very good because Plato believed those things have perfect forms that are eternal and unchanging.
Morality in the bible comes from 2 places1) The 10 Commandments (only 4 are really relevant)2) some stuff jesus saidBit what about the other 1000 pages? Why does your religion need to sandwich moral messages between pages of crazy nonsense like Jonah living inside a whale for 3 daya, or god blood raining from the sky on Egypt? If you wanted to reference that other stuff you'd be stoning your children to death for minor infractions, forcing your daughter to marry her rapist, exterminating entire tribes and nations....etc. This is morality?When most people read the bible, they're expecting profound deep truths. They're expecting revelations shaking their foundations, they're expecting divine wisdom.Instead people reading the bible get: long useless geneologies, weird mythologies like dragons and unicorns, and genocide stories. Where's the deep wisdom?Shouldn't the bible be instructing us on things like, how to be a virtuous person despite a low class upbringing, how to measure yourself and temper yourself, how to judge truth from falsehood, how to know a tyrant...all of that can be found ok the writings of Confucious.Why doesn't the bible tell us how to reason, think logically, solve human problems. Or hell, why not a few paragraphs about washing yourself if you're diseased, which might have saved 1/3 of christian europe from dying of the Plague.
>>540464175>reading it very goodare you fucking kidding me? lmfao
>>540464138But isn't admitting you don't know something a pretty big step when you're in an ancient city state culture? People.are expecting you the wise man to tell them what to think, and you have the balls to say "I don't know", but do your damndest to try and discuss it anyway.
>>540464121I agree morality is metaphysical. Would also explain why some Christians I know are good people and some are reprehensible. The religion itself has little to do with the morality itself
>>540464391I think you will find statistically that religion has almost no correlation to criminality once you control for other factors like genetics and class. What religion really has a huge impact on is political views, and political changes can have big effects on behavior.So the proper chain goesReligion --> politics --> behavior.It suggests that all religion is inherently political
>>540463416>Euthyphro DialogueOP that dialogue doesn’t just cause problems for paganism, it causes problems for Christianity too. In fact it causes problems for literally every view that says morality comes from a god(s). The entire dialogue undermines virtually all religion that way.
>>540464225I'm not sure why everyone is assuming I am a Christian. I am moreso insinuating that the thinking man should be a monotheist.but to entertain you>Shouldn't the bible be instructing us on things like, how to be a virtuous person despite a low class upbringing, how to measure yourself and temper yourself, how to judge truth from falsehood, how to know a tyrantI'm pretty sure the bible mentions all of these thingsBut Christian, Jewish, and Islamic scholars believe essentially the same things about morality as the Neoplatonists did. "The Good" is an eternal and unchanging attribute of The One. with this understanding, we can atleast define goodness as being something that literally exists, that has a perfect form. it is something that can be replicated in our day to day livesWhat does a pagan have to derive goodness from? the gods do not even have the same beliefs on goodness and bicker with each other all the time (implying the good is greater than them or doesn't exist)
>>540464464>religion is political I agree and its why the religious tax loophole pisses me off
>>540464386i'm not saying the dialogues are bad. many are very good. but there's limits.I honestly think the dialogs about his sentencing and execution were censored by platonists over the centuries to hide his real crime, which was plainly fucking the sons of athenian nobles.And a lot of the dialogs (most of the Republic) read like satire.I'm going on to Aristotle next and from my little knowledge I expect it will be a step up.
>>540464477wrong because see here>>540464498monotheists have an answer to the euthyphro question that pagans don't. it would not have worked if he had asked that question to Aquinas, and not some hellenist peasant
>>540464464>I think you will find statistically that religion has almost no correlation to criminality once you control for other factors like genetics and class. That's a big claim that downplays the transformative nature that religion has over a persons way of thinking. Don't get me wrong, race and class definitely have MORE of an affect on criminal behavior than religion does, but religion has to be up there.
>>540463416>moralfucking hell, here we go again, a circumcised mutt craves a manualthey cut the tip of your dick not a chunk of your brain, as a hwite man you yourself should be able to determine what is valuable and what is in your interestBUT NOOOO YOU NEED THE BEEEEEBLE!
>>540464638Man it's all genetic, even religiosity is genetic.If you want the redpill, this will blow your damn mindhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qw3S35wGgT8
>>540464536>monotheists have an answer to the euthyphro question that pagans don'tYou do know that the Neoplatonists were all Greek polytheists right? They all read that dialogue, and were convinced it did not cause trouble for their views.My claim does in fact still stand:The Euthyphro dialogue causes problems for every view that claims morality comes from a god(s).The One isn’t a god. Zeus is the demiurge, not the One. Since the one is not a god, the Euphuthro dilemma does not arise.
>>540464787>You do know that the Neoplatonists were all Greek polytheists right? They all read that dialogue, and were convinced it did not cause trouble for their views.I'm not sure where you are getting this information from. Socrates was executed for challenging the religion of the state. That is what they meant by "corrupting the youth". Literally the Euthyphro takes place on the literal doorsteps of the courthouse before his trial in the apology. It does cause problems. The Good takes authority away from the Gods, and posits a higher reality than them. I'm not sure how you can possibly fit it into traditional Hellenism (Greek Polytheism). Zues is not the demiurge. he never said that. And no, again, the euthyphro dilemma does not apply to Christians, which is why Christian philosophers took so much inspiration from Plato.
>>540463416>This was pointed out 2500 years ago by Socrates
>>540464787i'm aware that neoplatonists were charlatans whose magical thinking led to the jewish quaballah
>>540464883Corrupting the youth probably meant fucking young boys. It's kind of a thing among monotheists
>>540464883>I'm not sure where you are getting this information from.A basic textbook on the history of philosophy?>I'm not sure how you can possibly fit it into traditional Hellenism (Greek polytheism)Why don’t you consider Plutarch, Plotinus, Porphyry, and Proclus? These men were Plato’s successors and all of them were Greek polytheist who saw no contradiction between their views and the Euthyphro.>Zues is not the demiurge.That claim comes from Plotinus. He identified Zeus with the demiurge.>And no, again, the Euthyphro dilemma does not apply to ChristiansYou’re special pleading now.
>>540465170>this claim comes from plotinus. all of these other random philosophers didnt seem to think they were refuted by platowell please, this is a conversation board, not a go read this dude board.also, they were neoplatonists, not platonists. plato didnt even believe in the one.
>>540465170It does not apply to Christians because in Christianity, The Good is uncreated and still not higher than God. this is because god is eternal and unchanging being, and since goodness is one of his attributes, it too is eternal and unchanging. as is his will.
>>540465515>plato didnt even believe in the oneIf Aristotle and the claims made by Plato’s followers are true, Plato did believe in the One.Aristotle says Plato had unwritten doctrines, and Plato’s followers say the One was one of them.>>540465579You’re not the first person to think this. You think God is like a yardstick. God doesn’t decide what the good is, nor does he apply a standard to determine what is good, he just is good because that’s his nature. The problem is this causes the same dilemma, only in a different way: does God control his nature, or not? If he does, then he controls what is good by altering his nature, and if he does not, then something else is dictating what gods nature is; the true ground of morality.Likewise, it’s not the yardstick that determines what is a yard, but the weights and measures department. Try doing what you did with the yardstick again, a you’ll get an infinite regress.
>>540464121>>540464391>morality is inherently a supernatural concept. its not something that can be measured, you can't see it, you can't hear it.morality is just thermodynamics.>When you say something is "good" what does that actually mean?its any process that increases integrated complexity and negates entropy (life, consciousness, ecosystems)."Bad" is simply parasitic degradation kinda like a tumor/jew consuming its host until both collapse.complexity, information density, and system resilience are all measurable quantities btw.so no you don't need a "holy" book written by some middle eastern jew to figure out morals.you just need to understand how systems, physics and thermodynamics work.
>Is something good because God commands it, or does God command it because it is good?clearly socrates did not actually understand the law of excluded middle, as I can say: God is good."Who is this that darkens counsel by words without knowledge?" - God
>A white man needs to believe in higher valuesObviously false. Higher values are just elites memes to keep you restrained and are great for niggers and koleś, but white man is a great wonder of it's own. Natural religions provide the truth and mind set up that is in line with those truths.
>>540463846Or what?
>>540463416>Where does a Pagan derive moral truth from?Metaphysical understandings derived from the belief in God. Read a book bruh.
>>540463416Euthyphro Dialogue is about how you can't derive good by appealing to God, that would apply to a singular god or multiple. Actually read the thing before quoting it.
>>540463416>moral truths
