Should all christians bow to government authorities?
>>540693380That's not a "commandment;" that's Paul's commentary over a century after the Gospels. STFU, shill.
My favorite commandment from Jesus is "God bless those who bless Israel"
>>540693455What Christians understand this the way you do?
bump
>>540693506jesus said that?
>>540693380This isn't a commandment. Its the 13th section of a letter that Paul wrote to some guys in Rome. It says so right on your image.>>540693551Any Christian that actually reads the bible is going to understand this because the book of Romans explicitly says that what it is as does every single priest, theologian, commentator, that has ever existed in the history of everything. But you don't read the bible. You find images of quotes online and treat them like they are fortune cookies.Than you ask "How would anyone know what exists outside the image meme?"
>>540694844>13th sectionnot even that, sections were added centuries later.it is middle of a letter and basically says "don't waste your martyrdom protesting." it is a letter to a small, persecuted church community not a political treatise. right before that it has "overcoming evil with good"
>>540695037You're right.Its about as far away from a commandment as you can get.
>>540693380It means to obey the government on matters that are not violations of Christian faith.
>>540695291What if the government is based on heresy itself? For example according to Christian faith, proper order rejects democracy
>>540693380>That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,>That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government,it depends, what authority?if the government got its "just powers" from the consent of the goverened, and i dont consent, does it still have power or authority over me?and if i have the right to abolish, alter such a government, and decide to institute a new government, does the previous ones "power and authority" still hold true?seems to me that you have a lot of thinking and research to do, since you dont even know the basis for the foundation for americans government, which was founded on rebellion (which is as the sin of witchcraft) against its own established authority.i dont rebel against the established authorities, i revolt against the corrupted government that's an affront to God.from the legalization of murder of the unborn, to the legalization and propagation of faggot marriage, plus other abominations against God.i revolt against this godless and sinful nation, and denounce it for its evils against God and his churchso no, christians WONT bow to the government, because it is in direct rebellion against God and an enemy of Jesus and the gospel.
>>540695291>It means to obey the government on matters that are not violations of Christian faith.mostly this.
>>540695869Ok let me explain something to you boy.Heresy is when a CHRISTIAN promotes something that is unChristian. Romans CANNOT BE HERETICS. They are pagans (a pagan is anyone who is not a Jew, Christian, or Muslim). The righteous being ruled by unjust pagans has a huge fucking theological history. Jesus and Paul are constantly telling their own to obey their pagan rulers in all ways except when they ask you to acknowledge their idols.The bible is not a book about Crusader ethos, MAYBE some parts of the Old Testament are.
>>540696349A pagan ruler is still an emperor and a Katechon, but what about democratically elected presidents? Should you obey them and their goverment too?
>>540695869Paul talks about this stuff and its way more minor than you would think. A major question was "Our religion forbids us from celebrating Roman religious festivals. But can we go to their festivals just to eat the free meat if we don't worship their Gods?"Honestly the biggest thing the government did wrong from a Christian point of view is demand the 2nd temple of Zion to have altars for Roman gods. Again that is THE BIGGEST issue. And it was isolated entirely to a single temple one which didn't even function for very long after the bible was written.Again. This no not 1776 or crusaders. If you tried to learn about Christianity from warhammer 40k you going to keep finding the bible ethos alien.
>>540696461I'm not a Christian. Just researcher. But the standard result is going to that you should obey them except where they ask you to violate your faith. That almost never happens. There are laws specifically protecting religious faith and allows exemptions to other laws. Democratic systems were specifically made in the West to be compatible with Christian ethos. Its very hard for them to force you to do something that violates your religion.But like if the democratic government asked you to worship different gods or tried to make baptism illegal that would be something you would be expected to violate.
>>540696642>>540696545I don't get you, on one hand you say that >>540695203these are not commandments, on the other hand you say that you are still expected to follow it
>>540696461Maybe this will help. Christians and Jews think of their religion as a "covenant" a relationship between the worshipper and God. That relationship must be entered by free will. You must CHOOSE to do this. The covenant is that God will give you salvation in exchange for you following his laws.Jews think there is only one covenant the one God has with them. Some Christians think there are 2 covenants one for the Jews and one for Christians. Some think there is only one covenant that is for everyone.And what about the non-Jew non-Christians? They are not part of the covenant. God might punish them. He might use them as tools without them even knowing they are being used (Christians beleive God used the Romans and the Babylonians as part of his centuary long plan). The only thing I know that the bible says they MUST obey are the 7 Noahhide laws. 1/2
>>540696798A commandment is a direct order from God. Either directly given by him or through one of his messangers like Moses.Paul is a theologian. He is trying to figure things out. Although some Christians think God directly spoke through him>>540696799The 7 Noahhide laws were given the descendants of Noah and all humans are descended from them thus all humans are bound by those laws. Most of them are pretty basic stuff "You must establish courts of justice." but the one that pagans would be constantly violating is "You cannot worship idols" All pagan Gods are idols.Pretty much the only religions that don't worship idols are Judaism, Christianity, and MAYBE Islam (some Christians think Allah is the same God but that Muhammid is a false prophet who got like 95% of it wrong). And Jews think Jesus worship is MAYBE idol worship.
>>540693380Violence is the governing authority, not rules of men.
>>540696954>A commandment is a direct order from God. Either directly given by him or through one of his messangers like Moses.With all due respect, personal opinions hold no value when discussing religion and tradition. Authority should be cited. The inquiry regarding the applicability of Romans 13 to republican governments is a highly practical matter with tangible consequences.
>>540697100>With all due respect, personal opinions hold no value when discussing religion and tradition. Authority should be cited. You need to interprete laws. This creates opinions. This is true in both religion and legal systems. Like what do you think Martin Luther or the Supreme court did? Research legal theory and theology and you will see that this is universal.You get people saying "I think the bible is saying this. Look at this passage and this passage." And than you will have a contrary opinion. They are reading the same same cited text and arriving at different conclusions.
>>540697013now where did violence come from?
>>540697295that's right, this is the problem with personal interpretations. Traditional and authoritative interpretations are more important, ideally from a church father, priest, confessor etc. The inquiry regarding the applicability of Romans 13 to republican governments constitutes a highly practical matter with tangible consequences. The consensus is unequivocally affirmative. I adhere strictly to this position without fabrication. You are invited to examine the matter personally. To assert otherwise would be considered heresy.
>>540697310From God.
>>540693380That Sodom and Gamorah are bless'ed be thy names.
>>540693506I like the one where Jesus suggests that it's a good idea to cut off your nuts. Matthew 19:12
>>540697969In that vwrse. Jesus just told you that being an eunuch is better than committing adultery and going to Hell.
>>540697771But what if u find 10 good souls in that city
>>540693380It's very simple. Look at what the left, which worships Satan, does. Disrupting ICE raids and that kind of stuff. Pitching a fit when a cop pulls them over for doing something illegal, etc. They don't respect authority because their father, Satan doesn't. They rebel against every authority. They don't have the wisdom to appreciate it and the peace it brings.
>>540698104let us try to understand this via an example, lets imagine that you were living in nazi germany in 1945 as a catholic, you know that the nazi ideology, the officials, the nazi government is clearly anti-christian in every way possible. Would you still be expected to obey nazi government out of respect for authority?
>>540693380Only relatively. >“We must obey God as ruler rather than men.”—ACTS 5:29.>(Matthew 23:10) Neither be called ‘leaders,’ for YOUR Leader is one, the Christ.>(John 18:36) Jesus answered: “My kingdom is no part of this world. If my kingdom were part of this world, my attendants would have fought that I should not be delivered up to the Jews. But, as it is, my kingdom is not from this source.”>Luke 4:5-7 - 5 So he brought him up and showed him all the kingdoms of the inhabited earth in an instant of time; 6 and the Devil said to him: “I will give you all this authority and the glory of them, because it has been delivered to me, and to whomever I wish I give it. 7 You, therefore, if you do an act of worship before me, it will all be yours.”>1 John 5:19 - 19 We know we originate with God, but the whole world is lying in the [power of the] wicked one.>(John 17:16) They are no part of the world, just as I am no part of the world.We are to subject ourselves to human governments relatively only. That means show the proper respect to all government officials, to the police, to the courts, to the IRS. Obey government traffic laws and pay all fines. However, if Caesar demands what belongs to God that's where we disobey.
>>540698634A deer ought to respect a lion, and run away from it, else, it will get eaten.
>>540698634I don't know about your hypothetical question. It's a matter of faith and not letting one's faith be snuffed out for peace and safety in Satan's world. For instance, it was incorrect for the jews to rebel against the Romans in 70 AD. The believing Christians were warned about this ahead of time through prophecy and told to flee to the hills. The jews (who had rejected Jesus) rebelled against Rome and got crushed for it. Other Christians refused to renounce their faith and were fed to the lions for it. The devil wants chaos and lawlessness in society. In matters such as driving infractions and illegals being deported, it's best not to rebel against such things since there would be pure chaos without it.
>>540699086There is no point in submitting to a weak government.
>>540698820It's good to know the scriptures. And when one walks with God / Wisdom, the Holy Spirit brings back to their remembrance the correct application of the scriptures to a given situation. Scoffers who are without Wisdom can throw a million different scriptures at situations they don't apply to and say "Look here, God is a liar." They are, of course without the Spirit, and can only understand things in a dead and intellectual way, rather than in a living, spiritual way. But when a saying of Wisdom is applied correctly, it is like a golden apple.
>Saul the roman spy says obey the roman empireHmmm
>>540699155What do you mean?
>>540699283A lion shouldn't submit to a deer.
>>540699376this is by animalistic law of survival of the fittest, but its not the same for humans
>>540699376Ok, well when you flap your arms around and yell "AM I BEING DETAINED?" and reach for your waistband in a traffic stop instead of respecting the police, don't be surprised when you get tased or shot.
>>540699409What's the different? If you ever sympathise with a deer, then you are likely a deer.
>>540699440I can kill the entire police force with my martial arts. They are the ones who should submit to me.
>>540699444its not about sympathy, its about duty and order
>>540699504It's aboht power, and hierarchy. I don't respect a group of retards.
>>540699462No you can't. You would be bloody swiss cheese.
>>540699656You have the mind of a prey animals, not me. The police is my force, and I am its Master.
>>540699718You are delusional and indian.
>>540699754I am the King of Heaven and Earth, and the Lord of all creation.
>>540696954>pretend to be Christian>shill for the Nohanide lawsWhat a disingenious kike
>>540699881
>>540693380Things will never change until the intelligence agencies, underground military-industrial-complex lairs and defense contractor facilities are stormed and the glowniggers and parasites who work there are executed and the data they collect is leaked to the public so that the rest of these government assets, zogbots, mercenaries, glorified jannies and authority figures can be hunted down and exterminated.
>>540693380Sure, but there's also no anti-authority except that which God has also established so that authority better not get bad ideas. >Peter and the other apostles replied: 'We must obey God rather than human beings! - Acts 5:29
>>540703784this was said for priests, not government authorities
