Do leftists actually believe all human behavior is the result of social or economic forces?If so, why? That's retarded and scientifically inaccurate.Why don't more sciencefags call out this outright pseudoscience?
>>540829036>do leftist believe all human behavior is the result of social or economic forcesthey clearly don't since they frequently advocate for shit for programs to help people with various mental disabilities, when they say behavior is influence by social or economic forces they usually are implying those are bigger factors for people without any said issues
>>540829036Do rightists actually believe that leftists actually believe all human behavior is the result of social or economic forces? Why? That's retarded.
>>540829036The brownshirts will believe anything they are told to believe. Remember they hated the jab till Biden told them to get it. I think the people pulling the strings on the left are using this pseudoscience for a power grab. The classic, we need a government agency that oversees and control everything and they just so happen to fill it with people they like and can control to get their way.Look at Education. Rather then just let the locals run it. We had the Government make a federal board that basically does nothing but leech off of taxes and pushes what they want to be taught over letting the local regions decide that. One of the reasons we went from one the top country in education to not even in the top 10.
Smart people know that humans, once born, are basically fancy wind-up toys whose behaviour is impossible to influence except in ways that are comparable to putting a physical object in the path of a windup toy to block its movement.
In their eyes diversity means everyone is the same and that’s hilarious to me.Nature comes before nurture.
>>540829036>Why don't more sciencefags call out this outright pseudoscience?You'll lose your license to practicr medicine as they cover for Saint Fauci and such.
>>540829036>Do leftists actually believe all human behavior is the result of social or economic forces?Yes, tabula rasa.>If so, why? That's retarded and scientifically inaccurate.Because it's a foundational requirement for all liberal reasoning, just like ltv for commies.You can't remove it without giving up on your religion altogether.>Why don't more sciencefags call out this outright pseudoscience?Sciencefags relate to science in the same way as scientology.People who know what they are talking about will either shut their mouth on the matter to keep getting grants or talk about it and get called science deniers and bigots.
>>540829036Do rightists believe they will one day be millionaires if they work really hard, despite being a slave to a megacorporation and living in squalor? Why? That's retarded.
>>540829044>Do rightists believe they will one day be millionaires if they work really hardHonestly at the pace inflation and the stock market go I expect to be a millionaire (as in *one* million dollars) within 20 years even with my job, which pays averagely and requires minimal effort.
If there is one common trend to western leftists it is the culling of the future in favor of the present. "Redistributing" the seed grain instead of planting it. Obvious with abortion but it runs much deeper with the entire welfare state benefitting immigrants and boomers at the expense of the generations to come, not to mention the demonization of past generations and periods that built the world they believe they are so much moral than. This is why I'm grateful the post 60's west will not be relevant for too much longer.
>>540829046Speaking of unwarranted feeling of moral superiority to past people.
>>540829036muh leftists
>>540829048muh muh
>>540829049muh muh muh oo-mau-mau muh muh oo-mau-mau, muh-maudon't you know about the bird?everybody knows that the bird is the word
I don't think most do literally. They may only believe that social and economic factors are the important ones, by a wide margin. And they don't think inherited factors should figure into policy as a matter of principle.If you're a liberal, you basically believe that people really don't differ that widely in their natures, and it's unfair anyway to act on differences of nature because they're beyond anyone's control. If society manages the nurture end of things correctly, then you can have a decent well-functioning society that's also fair, and whatever differences there are between people don't matter.
>>540829036>co-founders ban>against promation with WordPress and indies new but fine with donation scam Wikipedianpc ain't human.
>>540829036>Muh leftists>>>/pol/I’m not a blank slate-ist by any stretch, but please post this stuff there instead.
>I’m not a blank slate-ist by any stretch, but please post this stuff there instead.
>>540829050News of a certain or ornithological nature.
>>540829054Posting pictures of yourself belongs on >>>/soc/
>>540829036because academia is fully captured. you will lose your job for stating facts because "its mean"
>>540829036They disagree with it in the most abstract terms, but in practice their whole ideology is rooted in Rousseau's concept that all evil in the world stems from systems set in place by the ruling class. So class, capitalism, racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia and so on are all machinations of the elite for some purpose, but not jews like George Soros and Larry Fink of course who are somehow revolutionaries like themselves.Indeed through confirmation bias it is easy to say "oh, black people are the lowest proletariat and racism is a way to get white labor aristocrats to suppress them" and follow with "if it wasn't for this they would be IQ 100 and low crime like white folx". There is no objective basis to it, but it sounds smart and a lot of people agree with it.When challenged they can always pile on more fallacies if someone questions it. If a black kid has poor grades it is eternally 100% the fault of white people putting him down and they conjur up ever more absurd theories about "white privilege" and "racial microaggressions" about why this is the case and heap ever more DEI, special privileges and entitlements upon black people.>>540829053The term left wing (côté gauche) originates from the french revolution and clean slate (tabula rasa) originates from Rousseau, it is actually very /his/ related.
>>540829041>Nature comes before nurture.That's not how nature vs nurture works, nor is ir a total binary since many times the answer is always "both".
>>540829057>because academia is fully capturedBy who boy?>you will lose your job for stating facts because "its mean"That's not how it works. You never went to any post secondary schooling
>>540829054kek
>>540829036Leftists are ideologically captured, and thus mentally ill. Once you start ignoring reality to keep adhering to your belief system, you're lost.
>>540829060>That's not how it works. You never went to any post secondary schoolingAnd why should I? Intellectuals are evil.
>>540829055Avian Awareness?
marxism is not economic determinism btw
>>540829036Right Wingers believe this to regarding Islam.
>>540829065What is it then?Why does it sound exactly like economic determinism?What about base and superstructure?
>>540829038What do they actually believe then?Why do they call shit a social construct?
>>540829044Leftists will say shit like like and then advocate socialism which has always reduced worker's wages, made them work harder and suffer more.Why do you hate the working class so much?
>>540829053>I’m not a blank slate-ist by any stretch, but please post this stuff there instead.They're all low IQ schizos who just call you a jew if you bring up any topic.It's impossible to discuss anything there.
>>540829036They do yes. Lefties are deeply entrenched in 'Blank-Slate' Ideology.
>>540829053>>540829070The thread was asking a legitimate question about leftist behavior and instead of participating in the discussion you immediately respond with bad faith strawmen.>NO NO NO YOU MUST ACCEPT LEFTIST PRIORS OR ELSE I WONT ARGUE WITH YOUthen you do not want an argument, you want agreement.That is why you will only create suffering, because you see good-will as weakness. Your birth rate is in the negatives, leftism will die out biologically.
>>540829044>believe they will one day be millionaires if they work really hardliterally no one on "The Right" has ever thought this.Leftist have fallen into a state of hyper-reality where they believe the strawmen they have created against 'The Right' are representations of the actual non-leftists.
>>540829036>/pol/ tourist doesn't understand how human behavior is shaped by society and how economic forces shape society>will go on to bitch about H1Bs and illegal immigrants being brought in to undercut wages and how marketing and media caters to these populations nowThis is the problem with having an "& Humanities" board full of people that don't actually participate in society. You don't know what constitutes a society to even ask this question.
>>540829074>/pol/obsessed>human behavior is shaped by society and economicsA fact no one disputes, however the degree to which this is true is in question and also if there are other confounding factors, for example genetics.How much of who we are attracted to is the result of social conditioning as opposed to natural attraction to symmetrical faces and good genetic/fitness markers?Lefties never want to answer this for some reason because it soft-locks certain aspects of life.>you complain about immigration which is the result of capitalismyeah, the alternative to capitalism, a leftist economic doctrine, isnt another form of leftism such as communism.The alternative can be implemented by leaders on an as-needed basis or it could be more naturally guided by an alternative system altogether such as local organization, something Arch-lefties like Karl Marx said was ideal but he thought was out of reach for societies who are too afraid to give up technology.>actually participateWhat does this even mean? The majority of mobilized leftists are jobless dregs with the time to waste and no reputation that will be tarnished by rioting or causing a nuisance to productive society.Non-lefties go to work extracting resources like oil or building heavy machinery necessary for industrial farming.lefties like Renee go out, sing lesbian poetry, troon their son, then get blasted by Officer Ramirez for stopping an ICE arrest.Who's more productive?what does constitute a society?
>>540829036Idunno.Why don't you ask /sci/, you absolute screeching sperg?!
>>540829068>What do they actually believe thenEquity. Egalitarianism.>Why do they call shit a social construct?It's just a specified concept of constructs.https://www.britannica.com/topic/constructivism-social-sciences
>>540829072>The thread was asking a legitimate questionBased on the way the OP is worded it seems to be very obvious question begging because they actually just want to rant about race, genetics, and IQ.
>>540829078>>540829075>for example geneticsSpeak of the devil I only needed to scroll a little further.
>>540829077>Equity. Egalitarianism.I'm asking what they believe in terms of where human behavior comes from?Nature or nurture?Because from what I have seen they seem to be in a religious cult that believes nurture determines literally all human behavior.
>>540829036Human behavior is to 95%+ caused by non-hereditary factors. Things transferred and governed by language or training or materialized culture, etc.Rightwingcucks too know this, deep down, since they will be the first to put their kids in good schools and sing the praises of "tradition", being around the "right kind of people", having their kids grow up around the "right kind of people", having "good values", etc.Thus rightwingcucks are huge and blatant hypocrites when they then try to turn around and claim that success in life, leadership qualities, intelligene etc are all "mostly genetic".How they act reflects "the truth" and what they say reflect "their interests". Because the first thing you want to do when you managed to grab some position or some money is to institutionalize that. For yourself. For your kids. And the way to do that is to argue bullshit like "God chose us". "Genes chose us". Etc. And the implication is "this is fair and there's nothing you can do about it". "There's nothing you should try to do about it". It will only make things worse if you try.So that's the conceit pushed by our friendly privilege-fags at the top of the societal ladder, and their eager shabbos goys hoping to get ahead and scraps from the table. Also commonly known as "right wing ideology".
>>540829080>Because from what I have seen they seem to be in a religious cult that believes nurture determines literally all human behavior.Well, to start with, the terms you used in "social or economic forces" or otherwise known as 'socioeconomics' is the term we would use. We would also make use of the term 'material conditions.' But, I don't think any actual 'leftists' believe only nurture factors into people's development as a person.Just as anarchists don't fully subscribe to the idea of there being no manner of hierarchy when the term 'justified hierarchy' is a term that flies in anarchist circles.Now the reason why material conditions and or socioeconomic factors are so emphasized by 'the left' is because of how impactful it is on society. It's not just a matter of effecting individuals, but entire demographics. Largely the marginalized.When it comes down to it, operating under meritocracy, we shouldn't expect everyone in disadvantaged backgrounds to necessarily pull themselves up by their bootstraps. It's just not feasible. In which case in this context would mean getting by on minimum wage, which is not possible due to inflation and not having an increase in decades.
>>540829082>We would also make use of the term 'material conditions.'Which is made up marxist pseudoscience cult speak that means nothing.>But, I don't think any actual 'leftists' believe only nurture factors into people's development as a person.Then why do they act like this is the case?Isn't that what the base in base and superstructure is? Also why do they say many things are social constructs?>when the term 'justified hierarchy' is a term that flies in anarchist circles.They almost never say this, they say hierarchy is le bad, and when you point out examples of good hierarchies they backtrack and say justified hierarchy, then when you ask them to explain how wage labor is not a justified hierarchy, they short circuit and can't answer it.>is because of how impactful it is on society. But it really isn't. They just think it is because it's what their cult programming tells them. Nothing these people say can make actual predictions that work out in the end.>which is not possible due to inflationLeftists SUPPORT inflation existing. They support central banking and money printing, then complain that real wages have fallen.Pic related
>>540829078>>540829079>just want toYou mean discuss the 65ton Elefant in the room?Yes! Leftists ignore things like genetics because it puts certain end goals out of reach.Like someone with a genetic cap on their IQ set at 93 will never ever be fit for making breakthroughs in modern astrophysics no matter how wealthy or hardworking they are.Material conditions as understood by lefties are not enough.(You) pretend these objections to liberalism are unreasonable because to address them is already ceding the fight. If liberals even address the incompleteness of their ideology of blank slatism then it all ends, all of it. Why tolerate an incorrect ideology that exists solely to moralize the enrichment of dregs at the expense of the strong and beautiful?You shouldn’t.
>>540829081>right wingers like Jared Taylor are in a grand conspiracy with Obama to keep the working man down????I like how you believe your own strawman about right wingers.The Alt Right did more damage to capitalism and the liberal bourgeois than every leftist movement in America combined.>95% non hereditaryProve it.Are the outcomes of male and female mating behaviors 95% non hereditary?No.Is the life outcome of someone with Down syndrome 95% hereditary?No.Genetics has a profound impact on a person’s life.>the implication is this is fairNO!The overt implication to not be rude to the orcs is “you aren’t oppressed, you’re just bad at it”.Which is true.Systemic racism isn’t keeping Pygmies from dominating the NBA.Their genetics are.
>>540829036They don’t really anymore but still twist words and meanings around to claim that it does.It’s been nonstop coping and seething ever since WW2 and Nazi Germany disproved scientific historical materialism.
Leftists believe in blank state regarding raceRight wingers believe in blank state regarding attraction and sexuality related identities
>>540829044Yes. I make 80k a year and spend less than 20k. I've already saved up 300k that I invest in REITs and expect to be a millionaire by the time I'm 30.
>>540829087Sexuality isn’t a blank slate and all sexual identities are illegitimate, men are created heterosexual by nature and homosexuals are perverts who develop their perversion through sin and rebellion.
>>540829082>In which case in this context would mean getting by on minimum wage, which is not possible due to inflation and not having an increase in decades.Minimum wage does not work.
>>540829085It would be easier to take you seriously if you explained which parts of my characterization of right-wingers you felt was unfair instead of just randomly spurting high-school level sarcasm.>Prove it.It's completely fucking self-evident. Evolution and genes change slowly. Human behavior changes quickly. We know some mechanisms that are clearly hereditary ("hunger", "fear", "anger", "horny", etc) but they are all extremely generic and hook into socialized human behavior through pavlovian conditioning which clearly is a non-hereditary trained or learned process. I could go on, but seeing you just skirted past my point about how the behavior of the loudest self-avowed hereditarians betray how little they trust their own bullshit, I think I'll wait for you weighing in on that before I bother. Will you put your kids in a shitty school with stupid people and bad teachers? If they're born to rule or born to be serfs, it shouldnt matter, right? Besides, from your post you come off pretty fucking stupid. Are you sure that believing your unfortunate circumstance to be chronic is in your own interest (but maybe you prefer all hope to already be lost)?
>>540829081Great job pulling all of this out of your ass. I'm amazed you were able to do that.
>>540829092I accept and welcome your concession and defeat
>>540829081>>540829091All traits, from basic instincts like hunger to particularities like watching SpongeBob, are an entanglement of genetics and environmental influence. There is nothing self-evident here, you need a heritability study to determine the heritability of any particular trait. Note that heritability is only a measure of how much genetics contribute to the variance of a trait within a particular population. Heritability can change depending on what population you are looking at, the traits themselves remain a perfect entanglement. So for example, the heritability of intelligence is roughly 65%, but lots of traits are downstream of intelligence from taste in music to job performance, all of which we would expect to also have high heritability.
>>540829094>entanglementI think we'd like to here more about this interesting concept. So when kids go from playing hoop-and-stick to watching Spongebob to playing Roblox, what part of that "entanglement" is involved in governing their rapidly changing behavior?>Note that heritability is only a measure of how much genetics contribute to the variance of a trait within a particular population. Assuming latent linear traits is assuming what you meant to prove - heritability. There is zero reason to believe that latent linear traits is a distinguishing factor in a population of neurotypical humans. Human behavior is dynamic, non-linear, self- and mutually reinforcing, has network characteristics, etc. Provably so.>So for example, the heritability of intelligence is roughly 65%This number is based on two twins-reared-apart studies from the 70s and 80s and both those studies were methodologically invalid in not one but a number of ways.
>>540829095>I think we'd like to here more about this interesting concept Excellent, I would love to elucidate. >So when kids go from playing hoop-and-stick to watching Spongebob to playing Roblox, what part of that "entanglement" is involved in governing their rapidly changing behavior? There is no part with an isolated responsibility, that's what makes it entangled. >Assuming latent linear traits is assuming what you meant to prove - heritability. No it is not, the ideas are orthogonal. >Human behavior is dynamic, non-linear, self- and mutually reinforcing, has network characteristics, etc. Provably so. Yup. >This number is based on two twins-reared-apart studies from the 70s and 80s and both those studies were methodologically invalid in not one but a number of ways. I don't think so but in any case I'm just using it as an example to demonstrate the idea. In fact this is a good opportunity to demonstrate the difference between genetic and heritable. So let's say that intelligence has low heritability, say 5%. That means that genetics don't contribute much to the variance of intelligence within the population being measured. But the trait itself is still an entanglement. Human beings only exist as an intelligent species because intelligence is genetic.
>>540829096That's pathetic, it's like the dog ate your homework or something. Do you seriously expect me to waste my time on you?
>>540829036Maybe ask yourself how is it possible that people from all backgrounds are able to participate equally in universities? You are just insecure and morally bankrupt.
>>540829093I'm not conceding anything you enormous faggot.
>>540829098Define "moral bankruptcy"
>>540829097I accept and welcome your concession and defeat
>>540829098>how is it possible that people from all backgrounds are able to participate equally in universities?Affirmative action.
>>18634903Don't you dare call me a homosexual.
>>540829103Sorry, thought you were replying to me, my bad.
>>540829102Should be illegal
>>540829101I'll remember this day when my defeat was welcomed by the village idiot>There is no part with an isolated responsibility, that's what makes it entangled. You're saying you have no idea.>No it is not, the ideas are orthogonal. We're talking about math, not general ideas.>I don't think soYou're wrong>the trait itself is still an entanglementlatent linear traits is not an appropriate model for human behavior
>>540829106>You're saying you have no idea.What I'm saying is that the question is ill formed. Let's say I have two buckets that are each half full of water. I then empty the first bucket into the second. What is responsible for the rapid change in bucket contents? Me pouring the one bucket into the other or the original contents of the buckets? On one hand, if I had not intervened then no change would have taken place, on the other hand if the first bucket had no water then no change would have taken place. It is impossible to isolate responsibility. >We're talking about math, not general ideas. >latent linear traits is not an appropriate model for human behavior Again, these are orthogonal. The entanglement does not imply high heritability and high heritability does not imply latent traits.
the problem for the right is that they are in the matrix and don't know it. they defend the system that oppresses them because they think they can make it, or have made it, they're useful idiots. they resist change which could save everyone and believe the lies of the epstein class. the amount of hilariously bad takes in this thread is a sign that everyone thinks they're not ignorant, despite being a product of a system of enslavement. you're in the matrix and you're fighting hard to keep it. don't worry, you'll win. there are more of you. the military spending will hit record levels. the largest polluter on earth is the usa military and they're exempt from CO2 accords, so you don't even know that's what is setting the world on fire. that army is to defend the largest concentration of capital in the world, and you can deny it all you want, but it's still true. but like I said, hate on the left all you like, you win. most people are in the matrix and don't know who controls their government. keep making threads like these as the world burns.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kz7MfkVAC40
>>540829090Well, it was meant to be temporary anyway.
>>540829107>What I'm saying is that the question is ill formed.No what you're saying is that you have no more granular a model about the governing mechanism of human behavior than "it's a mix of hereditary factors and environmental factors".>Again, these are orthogonalWe're talking about alternative mathematical models and how suitable they are for modelling certain occurrences and you're offering that "they're orthogonal". That's the equivalent of the hostess serving the starter and you loudly soiling yourself and exclaiming "obliged m'lady"
>>540829110>No what you're saying is that you have no more granular a model about the governing mechanism of human behavior than "it's a mix of hereditary factors and environmental factors". That statement is just true. It IS a mix of hereditary and environment factors. And to examine how much either category contributes then it only makes sense to do so in regards to variance in a population. >We're talking about alternative mathematical models and how suitable they are for modelling certain occurrences Ok, then go ahead and explain what this statement >latent linear traits is not an appropriate model for human behavior has to do with anything I've said. I haven't proposed any latent traits, I haven't mentioned latent traits at all.
>>540829111>That statement is just true. It IS a mix of hereditary and environment factors. And to examine how much either category contributes then it only makes sense to do so in regards to variance in a population.but what shall we do about your understanding not going further than "it's a mix of A and B"? >Ok, then go ahead and explain what this statement I already did, and at that point you did not object but agree. Most likely because you didnt understand what the fuck I was talking about but you didnt want to look stupid.>I haven't mentioned latent traits at all.A latent trait model is the mathematical assumption that all IQ research, all twins-raised apart, all twins-raised together, and all hereditary traits research makes about the nature of human behavior.
>>540829112>but what shall we do about your understanding not going further than "it's a mix of A and B"?You could elucidate, what other factors do you believe exist that don't fit either category? >I already did, and at that point you did not object but agree.You mean this? >Human behavior is dynamic, non-linear, self- and mutually reinforcing, has network characteristics, etc. Provably so. None of that is an alternative model to what I'm saying. >A latent trait model is the mathematical assumption that all IQ research, all twins-raised apart, all twins-raised together, and all hereditary traits research makes about the nature of human behavior. No it isn't.
>>540829067According to Marxism, historical events may occur for a variety of reasons, but, in turn, all these causes are a consequence of the existing mode of production. Human beings can make their own decisions, but these decisions are ultimately conditioned (not determined) by the economy (or infrastructure). Engels discusses precisely this in a letter. https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1890/letters/90_09_21.htm
>>540829095Dude shut the fuck up obviously everything proceeds in part from genetics.Humans and chimps are both mammals. Humans and chimps differ behaviorally due to genetics.Differences between living beings come down to genetics. To the building blocks of these living beings.You’re coping because Marx and Engels lived before the advent of molecular genetics and so when they got things wrong they got them really really wrong and you have a moral and emotional attachment to leftism.Leftism is an archaic spook and people in the future will wonder how anyone could be so pants on head stupid to not see genetics are a primary factor in life outcome, not “conditioned by modes of production”.You are fighting against nature. That’s why your “side” is always on the defensive and trying to explain away hard empirical data and hard science.You lost. Leftism lost. It’s an outdated set of ideas that are unscientific and just obviously wrong.You won’t even tell us what it would take to prove genetics is primary because to even present to us a target, we’d win because you know we’d hit it every time.
>>540829091>evolution and genes change slowlyNo they don’t. Genetic changes in populations can occur very rapidly. This should make you feel better because it means not all hope is lost for you. You can still deploy eugenics for Nogs.>human behavior changes quicklyNo it doesn’t. Mood is not behavior.Humans still get jealous, angry, fall in love, seek power, seek affection and adoration as they always have. Behavioral genes might change slowly but that’s more so because what we have works. Yes, the racism works, stop trying to “solve” something that isn’t a problem.We are refining behaviors.There are no huge selective pressures causing rapid changes in genes. If there were, the genes would change very quickly, this is why eugenics can work.>pavlovian conditioningThere is no Pavlovian mechanism which makes a mother love her child or a baby cry when it’s alone.These are instinctive behaviors arising from perhaps pure genetics.>i could go onNo you couldn’t. You are trying to hand wave away very significant human behaviors because you know they are genetic in origin and you want to move past them and get into weird pilpul territory so you can argue that African Pygmies actually can dominate the NBA if they had enough programs like normal people do.
>>540829091>skirted pastNo one did this. The point you made was stupid.>hereditarians are putting their kids in good schoolsYes obviously because schooling is a relevant factor. retarded niggers think IQ is like jimmy neutron, a super intelligent prodigy just a-priori thinks their way through life.Hereditarians don’t believe school makes someone smart. Niggers do because niggers see smart people at school and their low cargo cult mindset makes them commit the correlation causation fallacy a thousand times a minute.>it shouldn’t matter right??? It will always matter.An intelligent person needs the resources to succeed or else they might not reach their highest potential.For Whites and Asians that potential is very high.For blacks that potential is very low to the point where education doesn’t make a difference.Pooki and RayRay finna be soft locked at 8th grade reading levels for their entire lives unless they are literally enslaved and held in bondage in remedial English.That’s what 83IQ does.Hereditarians correctly assert that smart kids will generally succeed without schooling, but that schooling can amplify and scale that success to very high levels for smart kids.For kids who are below average, education doesn’t amplify anything because there’s nothing to boost.>you just hate black pipo manYeah but not because they’re stupid, because they’re evil.
>>540829044>That's retarded.ableist bigot
>>540829070what do you have against people with low iqs and/or schizophrenia you fucking nazi?
>>540829081what do you have against cucks you kink shaming fascist?
>>540829084The point of liberalism is to try to realize the full potential of every human being. I don't care if someone is or isn't genetically capable of a certain thing, they should be allowed to cultivate themselves to the limit of their potential. This means giving anyone the chance to pursue higher education if they want. If you give 100,000 poor people access to university education and even one of them cures some disease or fugures out some new physics that is a good outcome.
>>540829084>>540829121Because of course a democracy is only as good as the people in it, investing money into developing those people is the most important thing that society can do.We don't need everyone to be Einstein we just need them to be the best they can be. Adopting the "fuck you I got mine" philosophy into society is not going to be so good in the long term for the free-world.
>>540829036People arrive at the hard version of this position mostly because actually quantifying what dictates most human behaviour completely outside of social or economic factors is usually extremely difficult if not impossible. Acting like everything has a clear genetic cause that is completely uninfluenced by environmental factors is ludicrously unscientific.
>>540829084>someone with a genetic cap on their IQ set at 93How do you determine that? Should everyone be subjected to rigorous testing to determine what their genetically hardcoded potential to score highly on an IQ test is, and allocated opportunities based on this? Who will do this, the government? Honestly it would just be cheaper and easier to offer free public education to all and those with the ability to make the most of it will
>>540829038The average rightist believes it because it's the most common argument that average leftists default to when pressed. It's an easy go-to, which makes it common, and commonality breeds contagion for the normie.
>>540829113>You could elucidate, what other factors do you believe exist that don't fit either category?you dont feel stupid having opinions about how a car works and then refusing to have a working understanding beyond "a car is an entanglement of soft things and hard things"?>None of that is an alternative model to what I'm saying. So what are you saying? That hereditary latent traits are upstream from dynamic, non-linear, self- and mutually reinforcing processes, network processes? True for some known mechanisms (e.g. instincts). Beyond that it's all guesswork and we dont have any workable mathematical models to explore it.>No it isn't.You'll have to expand on that lest we believe it's another "entanglement of soft and hard things" level opinion.
>>540829115you wrote all that tl;dr shit that had literally nothing to do with my post
What if I'm all of the below simultaneously:>anti-war and military industrial complex spending>anti-megacorporation and other oppressive forms of private industry>anti-epstein class>anti-israel and other forms of ZOG bullshit>pro-autarchy and living as much of a decentralized life as possible>pro-remigration and anti-demographic replacement of European stock >anti-lgbt and BLM and all that progressive-crab-bucket noise>anti-central banking>anti-matriarchal where does that place me? I swear politics are so fucking soulless. I can't be arsed to vote in this theatrical "democracy"
>>540829116>No they don’t. Genetic changes in populations can occur very rapidly. Explain how a "tennis" gene works, or what genes you believe were involved in the transition from gregorian chants to viennese classicism.>No it doesn’t. Mood is not behavior.My kids have some new stupid fad each week, you can take my word for it. I mean, you're really arguing against intuitively self evident stuff here.>Humans still get jealous, angry, fall in love, seek power, seek affection and adoration as they always have.Sure, behavior is not random and it's influenced by the material world, by instinct etc. But the actual materialized behavior that gives you power looks completely fucking different in 1920 then it did in 1880. Mussolini doing the same things in 1880 as he did in 1920 would have rendered him a bullet to the head and an early grave. How do genes evolve with that kind of rapidly evolving selective pressure? They cannot and they dont.>There is no Pavlovian mechanism which makes a mother love her child or a baby cry when it’s alone.>These are instinctive behaviors arising from perhaps pure genetics.Agreed, with the caveat that a mothers love for a child is an "entanglement" of instinct and other things, to borrow a phrase from anon.But note that a baby cries when it's straight out the pussy, when it's alone, pooped or hungry and literally the sum total of all behavior beyond that is -learned-. Ymmv but I'd say that's way beyond 95%.>No you couldn’t.Oh I absolutely could, what do you want to know?>pilpul territorymaybe you ought to go back, you despicable /pol/kike
>>540829128>where does that place meNowhere. You’re just a chud and the world has no place for you anymore.
>>540829117>Yes obviously because schooling is a relevant factor.Because learning and environment is crucial. I accept your concession.>Hereditarians don’t believe school makes someone smart. Then why even put your kids there? They were born smart, they'll turn out great no matter what you do.>An intelligent person needs the resources to succeed or else they might not reach their highest potential.Then everyone needs those same resources to succeed or else they might not reach their highest potential. Thanks for coming around to the leftie point of view.>That’s what 83IQ does.IQ is junk science based on provably inaccurate mathematical models that will, provably, give false positives.
>>540829130you might be right, what a retarded world. mind you, I'm not even that smart, so that says a lot
>>540829128>anti-war and military industrial complex spendingI don't know about the rest but this puts you firmly into the category of huge faggot.
>>540829133yeah man let's send our kids to die for Israel in some third hole shithole. any other good takes?
>>540829134that's openly antisemitic and although that's not illegal yet it certainly ought to be. Lefties are the worst
>>540829128>anti-war and military industrial complex spending>anti-megacorporation and other oppressive forms of private industryIt makes you unfinished business for us paid /pol/ shills. Why didnt the daily "helping the billionaires is in your best interest threads" work on you? Didnt we try hard enough? I might lose my job over this you asshle
>>540829128>>anti-central bankingYou're almost a Libertarian, but you need to do more reading.
>>540829126>you dont feel stupid having opinions about how a car works and then refusing to have a working understanding beyond "a car is an entanglement of soft things and hard things"? You are deliberately misunderstanding me. A trait is an entanglement of genetics and environment factors but that simple fact of what a trait is not my entire understanding of how biology works. But it's important to understand that fact because it's how we understand what we're even trying to measure when we talk about the environmental effects on people in contrast with genetics. >So what are you saying? That hereditary latent traits are upstream from dynamic, non-linear, self- and mutually reinforcing processes, network processes? No, I'm saying that everything you just described would be environmental factors that effect gene expression and create traits. I'll try one more time to explain this. Consider the trait of speaking English. It does not matter what a person's genetics are, if their environment never exposes them to the English language then they will never have that trait. But likewise it does not matter how hard the environment tries to teach a mouse to speak English, it will never have that trait. So when an organism does have that trait, it is ill formed to question how much of that trait is genetic or environmental: it is entirely both. What we can ask is how much genetics contribute to the variance of a trait within a population, which we call heritability. When a trait is determined in life and whether a trait is downstream of another trait are both orthogonal to heritability.
>>540829134It's important to keep the military budget high and for our military to have real experience fighting wars. Protecting Israel is just an excuse to use the middle east as our training ground. The most important thing is power.
>>540829114>all these causes are a consequence of the existing mode of production.Uh so it's pseudoscience?None of this is actually true.Marxism is retardedwhy do people still believe in it?
>>540829036>AllNo>Most of itYesLook at how different German and Japanese society is today from a 100 years ago. If society was defined by genetics and not culture/economy it wouldn’t have happened
>>540829081>we can predict the behaviour of every animal on earth given a large enough sample size of observations>but humans? no siree, all heccin socio-economic factors, mhmm, free will is wholesome and real
>>540829142properly done observations of human beings would incorporate socioeconomic factors. Or are you expecting a peasant, a slum-dweller, an aristocrat, and a businessman to behave in exactly the same way?
>>540829141>>Most of itthis isnt even remotely true
>>540829142Show me all the billions you made from stock trading
>>540829138>Consider the trait of speaking English.That's a taxonomic category ("the property of speaking english"). A category isnt a thing or a mechanism, it's just a pattern your brain can recognize. What you're saying is as stupid as "consider the trait of aeroplane-ness", and then opining that "aeroplane-ness" consists of "an entanglement of soft an hard things" and further "no matter how many hard things we try to put inside something with the property of car-ness, it will never have the property of aeroplane-ness".This is the level your thought process is on, this is literally how stupid you are.
I hate how everything needs a source for them. It's like wisdom doesn't exist in their eyes.
>>540829036obviously misrepresenting leftists, whatever.But jennyposting on his? Respectable.
>>540829144How else do you explain the modern world being so different from our ancestors’? A European and an Arab/African from 500 years ago would have far more in common with each other than a modern EuropeanThey would agree on-necessity to procreate -enslaving other groups is ok-a wife should submit to her husband-traditions and social norms are to be followed, not questioned -a general “might makes right” attitude If genetics matters more than culture/economics how is such a drastic change within a group possible?
>>540829149>he doesnt know about epigenetics>he doesn't know the evolutionary effects of wars and killing murderers has on geneticsalso yes a lot of it is social, but the things leftists pretend are social constructs like gender and race are fucking retarded
>>540829149I mean hereditarians cannot be so fucking stupid that they cant see this? The evolution of civilization and human behavior, the veritable explosion of retarded shit people come up with, is just too fucking fast and too fucking much to be explained by a slow process like natural selection. They fucking know this. They dont want it to be true, but they know it is.
>>540829150answer this, faget >>540829129
>>540829150race is a social construct since there are no biological facts that would let you categorise race
>>540829153this argument has been debunked a million times by people much smarter than both of usstop pretending that people havent refuted this shit>>540829129>Explain how a "tennis" gene worksThe basic instincts of competitiveness and understanding logic allow humans to play tennis. It's an instinct, it's not a pure social construct. You people are flat earthers who don't believe in evolution.
>>540829036>economic forcesI've met far more rightists who believe thatI've even met rightists who believe the laws of logic can be derived from economic principles
>>540829154>The basic instincts of competitiveness and understanding logic allow humans to play tennis. It's an instinct, it's not a pure social construct. You people are flat earthers who don't believe in evolution.So you believe there's a "logic" gene and a "logic system" in the brain. You're some kind of Chomskyan. Suffice to say, science has moved on from that and we understand how the brain works better today.
>>540829036Muh leftists
>>540829146Ok, I tried my best to get through to you but you will simply never understand genetics or heritability. I hope you have a good life.
>>540829154and it has been rebunked a million times +1
>>540829154people much smarter than both of us decied that race is solely a social construst, I'm sorry if that offends you
>>540829160No, they didn’t.>but da authorities sayBoot licking shitlib.Look at the science, not these far left extremists with no degrees declaring that science isn’t real.
>>540829156>logic geneDo you like not understand that there’s no “human gene” Yet we are humans, not apes, because of our genes?You’re pretending not to understand because the conclusion is obvious.
>>540829151>slow process of natural selectionDo you know what hereditarians actually believe?No you don’t. They follow the Harpending and Frost study which says Europeans underwent a hyper evolution genetically because every generation the church educated the intelligent and had them breed huge families while it executed the violent anti social retards, this occurred for about 700 years and gave Europeans a genetic level up.Now you didn’t know this because you don’t actually engage with hereditarians, you only strawman their positions then call the strawman silly.
>>540829161>No, they didn’t.yes they did>Look at the sciencescience says race is a social construct
>>540829156>So you believe there's a "logic" gene and a "logic system" in the brain.Yes you fucking retard lmao.Humans have the ability to reason, and this stems from our dna> science has moved on from thatYou people don't even believe in science. You're leftists.>>540829159>>540829160>and it has been rebunked a million times +1By who? Vaush?Believing race realism is false is understandable. I used to be in the same camp when I was a teenager, but believing gender is a social construct and that there are no male or female behavioral instincts is flat earth tier hilarious nonsense.You people are actually retarded flat earthers.Oh and on the race stuff, even the fact black people have smaller brains on average even when controlling for environment tells us behavior has a racial component.
>>540829165science does say that race is a social construct, believing otherwise it flat earth tier nowadays
>>540829038>You should let negros rape your family to death because slavery o algo
>>540829166no it doesn't lmaoscience doesn't mean "scientific consensus", you know
>>540829153You don’t know what “race” is. You have a bizarre definition that nobody uses and then you pretend that this insane definition of race as “pure color” is what everyone is talking about when they say race.We already had this thread and you wasted two days of everyone’s time because you misread a chart. Fortunately people smarter than you took the time to explain your mistake to you, after which you left the thread without even thanking them.
>>540829166science says race is real, get over it.
>>540829148>obviously misrepresenting leftistsWhat's the misrepresentation?
>>540829141>If society was defined by genetics and not culture/economy it wouldn’t have happenedprove it.
>>540829139>Protecting Israel is just an excuse to use the middle east as our training ground. The most important thing is power.Senator Graham posting from beyond the grave.
>>540829136>"helping the billionaires is in your best interest threads"these literally never existed.
>>540829131>Because learning and environment is crucial.No one has ever said they are irrelevant or insignificant.We have only ever said that the input and output of education are heavily correlated, a very intelligent man can leverage a good education into an extremely successful life, while a stupid person cannot leverage even a superior education into a life half as successful.Why the strawman?>why put your kids thereI literally just told you, because intelligence can wield education.Youre basically asking "If being physically bigger and stronger than someone is better in a fight, then why do you need training and weapons huh??"like are you retarded????>then everyone needs those resourcesNo they dont, because like in my previous example.Giving a 5'3" woman a machine gun wont make her into an elite warrior in the way that giving it to a 6'7" man will.>lefties point of viewthe leftypoint of view is that everyone is equal and thus would all benefit equally from education, this is obviously wrong, take the examples I gave.Another more overt example is someone with downs syndrome.They benefit far less from an education than someone who has all all their chromosomes and a high IQ.Do you disagree?>based on provably inaccurate mathematical modelsprove it.Are you telling me we have no way to measure intelligence?We literally cannot detect any cognitive difference between someone with down's syndrome and someone without it?
>>540829130>the world has no place for those who dont hate WhiteyWhy are leftrannies so insane?liberals are just evil man, we need to exterminate them.
>>540829129>tennis geneTennis, like most things, is polygenic, that means many genes allow for tennis.For example.snakes, who's sole difference to humans is purely in their genetics, they do not and cannot play tennis.>gen z fashion proves genes arent real?????>they cannot and dont1. They do.2. we arent saying genes atomistically determine behavior.ALL humans are genes reacting to an environment, genes respond differently to different environments and different genes respond differently to different environments compared to other genes.For example, people with downs syndrome do not respond the same way to Plato's Republic as someone who is much more intelligent and does not have downs syndrome, if both were asked to write a book report on the Republic, theyd both come to very different conclusions.>all behavior beyond that is learnedreally? sexual attraction is learned and not instinctual?youre insane.>I couldthen do so.>/pol/obsessed.You lefties are evil and deranged, no one likes you, no one is like you, and I am skeptical that you even have kids, your kids are fucked btw.
>>540829129Are talents learned?no.Are favorite flavors learned?no.Is sexual attraction learned?no.Is being facially attractive learned (this is a big determiner in life outcome btw)?no, its determined by genetics.is being predisposed to higher levels of anxiety learned?no, its called the worrier gene.>https://www.mygenefood.com/blog/comt-worrier-warrior/This is a credentialed biologist.Genetics is so obviously significant and relevant to everyday life, its so pervasive you dont even notice it.You cant even deny it anymore, youve already lost the debate, you're not arguing "well its not as important as you think" you have been toppled from "genetics is nothing environment is everything".
>>540829166>>540829164Social constructs are real btw Neurosurgeon and high school dropout are both social constructs but there is still a genetic component to the intelligence gap between them. Saying race is a social construct doesn't mean that blacks aren't retarded because of their shit genetics.
>>540829036Human behaviour is the result of nigger faggotry which you shall not theorise about, but merely observe
i mean its also wrong to say that human behavior is caused entirely by genetics isnt it?
Every /pol/ argument against niggers and brown people goes out the window the moment you mention Asians. Then suddenly they go all BUT MUH CULTURE AND MUH DICK.
>>540833842Whites are the niggers of Asia. The arguments are still correct.
>>540829036Leftists are scum. They’re the same as heroin addicts and worse because they destroy all of society, not just themselves. They legitimately think genocide is fine because it will reduce the carbon footprint. The USA has far more socialists and communists than people would like to believe. Especially amongst the youth. The vast majority of Americans under the age of 30, including those posting here, are communists and supporters of Zohran Mamdani and the Democratic Socialists of America. Communism is a resentment-based ethos that culminates in anti-heterosexual, anti-white, and anti-male sentiment in the modern day, just as in Marx’s day it was predominantly a Jewish anti-European doctrine. Nearly every American is a leftist and self-hating white who supports illegal immigration and the destruction of white AmericaI don't think most white Americans, especially those who like Trump, realize how much leftists, progressives, and many liberals hate them. It's a joke to them and many of them aren't even entirely serious. It's a lot of visibly angry dumb guys yelling or laughing about things. They don't realize how much they're actually hated. They legit think they're Nazis. They fantasize about genociding Southerners after the Civil War. A lot of MIGA tards just want White leftists to be pro America and shut up. Leftists don't want the same. They want white people dead. They want their kids to suffer. They don't realize leftists are seething with hatred and they're not these little harmless dorks. They're unhinged people. It's not a joke to them. They're savages.If you’re white and reading this, just know that these people once in power will use the state to inflict suffering on you for historical grievances that you had no part in. They’re ideologically motivated psychos who hate themselves but hate you more. When the time comes they’ll simply call you a “colonizer” and have you shot. That is the word they’re already training all their feral browns on
>>540834054If that's the case, why is the asian diaspora so big in the West?
>>540829036They believe that reality is a story you can make up
>>540829036>Do leftists actually believe all human behavior is the result of social or economic forces?yes>If so, why?its a secret to everyone>That's retarded and scientifically inaccurate.thats not something theyre concerned with>Why don't more sciencefags call out this outright pseudoscience?because they get fired
>>540829036Modern Leftists believe whatever the MSM wants them to believe. Even when two points are diametrically opposed Leftists will believe both with absolute certainty.
>>540829036Has any /poltard ever gone along to a Reddit meetup?I was tempted when they were doing them in my city. I could drop redpills and see them try to ban me IRL. I imagine it could be quite fun.
>>540836026/thread
>>540829044You don't live in squalor unless the mega corporation you are working for is UberEats.
>>540829036how would you know if you have never existed outside an economic system which oppresses you? you're in the matrix and the left are trying to set you free
IT'S BASED OFF SEX YOU FUCKING IDDIOT GOYIM CATTLE. SEX IS EVEN MORE IMPORTANT THAN MONEY.
>>540829051>If society manages the nurture end of things correctly, then you can have a decent well-functioning society that's also fair, and whatever differences there are between people don't matter.So an authoritarian dictatorship and claims that real communism has never been tried.
>>540836313no im done biting my tongue irl. theres no point anymoredo it and take pics tho. i bet itll be the most dysgenic losers in all of iberia
>>540829036they do. which is why they will always fail. nothing teaches you more about the nature/nurture debate than having multiple children. their personalities were different in the womb and stayed that way despite every other variable being as identical as possible.
