under yanukovich, all of ukraine was essentially a russian puppet state. the military was dismantled, agreements with europe and nato were scrapped, and ties with russia were strengthened. by comparison, now their control is more direct, but limited to some border territories to protect russia's control of the black sea.they are undeniably winning on the ground every day, but isn't it somewhat of a pyrrhic victory? they had to spend years invading, occupying and fortifying what used to be only a small part of their own territory. not trying to make a "us vs them, good vs bad" le epic bait thread, just trying to assess that the fact that the war happened at all is, in itself, a failure of russian diplomacy and intelligence efforts over decades.
>>541371781Correct, but this board is gay now and full of thirdies and communists that suck russian dick.Sad.
>>541371781It's how civil wars work.
>>541371781It is a pretty difficult war for Russia. Ukranians are completely tricked into hating Russians with all their being to the point that any territory the Russians occupy has to be completely destroyed scorched earth style.
>>541371781What the hell even are those countries that shit looks made up like a kid drew it or something
Ironically enough, much of the same logic could be applied to the grand scheme of relations between Russia and the West as well. Right now they are locked in a kind of a proxy conflict, but it did not have to be this way - there was quite a wide window of opportunity in the 90's when the West could have easily pulled Russia into its sphere of influence without much effort and at a very low cost. After the collapse of the USSR Russia was pretty much a defeated country suffering from an ideological void and was ready to accept just about anything the West would offer. And it did do that for almost two whole decades, basically thinking that doing everything the West did would give it security and prosperity. All the West really had to do was accept Russia into the western club, give some economic assistance and it would have been in the beg - Russia would have been fully dominated by Western capitol, ideology and political direction for decades to come. It could have been transformed into the most staunch adversary of China as well, thus not only ridding Beijing of cheap resources, but also receiving a giant buffer state right next to it, seeking to curtail their ambitions. Instead, the West did the exact opposite and for some reason ruled that Russia is completely defeated and should not be offered any good will because it has no choice but to accept whatever the victor demands. And thus, they practically forced Moscow to turn away from Western values and seek other partners. Of course, Westerners had zero obligations to help Russia, but it was pretty short-sighted to have missed such an opportunity and basically push Russia into China's full embrace. They could have had all of Russia for virtually peanuts, but instead decided to make an adversary out of it. Economically the West is undoubtedly choking Russia, however essentially it is a failure of diplomacy, since it is wasting resources fighting what it could have easily pulled into its camp just a few decades ago.
>>541372325Yes, it was me. I tricked them. I'm the epic leet trickster man.
>>541372620This is some of the pitfalls of "us vs them" mentalities that capitalism and racialism breed.
>>541371781not really, he just wanted to do his best job for ukraine while making a couple lemons on the side, and he was from the donbass so russia was a 'brotherly nation' that wouldn't attack. it just wasn't financially rational to join the eu, russia was giving a ton of gibs and all the people would've fled to the schengen, and not like the eu particularly had a use for ukraine. nato would've meant instant war. then the hotheads and ideologues came to power, thinking they could force the issue through violence and we got what we got
wrong image
>>541372620nato needs a scarecrow to justify its existencerussia's territorial expansionism is what ultimately allows american economical subjugation of all of europe, and you are playing your role perfectly
>>541371781Russia ruined it like usual when he ordered his puppet to Moscow and days later the euro economic deal was scrapped which made his own government charging him of crimes but instead of standing trial he fleed to Moscow like a coward. Ukrainians became angry and new election gave new directions, shortly after Russia invaded like the retarded niggers they are.Would some economic growth for Ukraine from Europe be really so bad that the current situation is a better outcome for them? Russians lifes are worth nothing but the economic loss is in the trillions for them.
Russians are nigger muslim terrorists.
>>541372325Why would anyone need to be tricked to hate Russians?
>>541372807>EU integration is a priority!>jk, let's turn into Belarus>noooo le CIA maidan nuland coup noooo
>>541371781The Ukraine wasn't a puppet state of RussiaGoogle the Ukraine stealing Russian gas before 2014They were stealing gas from Russia and already had Bandera ideology going onBasically Ukranian oligarchs had an idea of selling the UkraineLike Russia or US or the EU should pay them gorillions or they will pick a sideAnd then the other side who offered less should pay % for gas and goods transfer Yanukovich was meeting with Victoria Nuland and was trying to sell the Ukraine to the BurgersAnd if they would pay more for the Ukraine then the Ukraine would be a property of the WestRussia offered their gas deal to hohols and Burgers offered their ownBut the Russian deal was about giving hohols money and the deal of the Burgers was only about promises So hohols picked the Russian deal because they're all about moneyBurgers didn't like it and organized a coup to put their own puppets in power
>>541371781>but isn't it somewhat of a pyrrhic victoryThat remains to be seen. It depends how other events play out.
>>541371781Russia will never be conquered eh?
You could also argue that them being a puppet of Russia was better than being entangled in a 4+ year war with no prospect of ending and which end result will be for Ukraine to become a puppet of NATO or a puppet of Russia again. They are now ruled by a kike that doesnt give two fucks about Ukranians, pretty much like everyone before him.
>>541372325>tricked into hating Russiansyeah getting invaded by fucking russians will do that>>541372620>Russia would have been fully dominated by Western capitol, ideology and political direction for decades to comeno it wouldn't lmao in those magical 90s russia was already genociding chechnya. opening to western money only served to strenghten the state to do further invasions from a better position.the proceeding wars were inevitable because to go >ooga booga rashka strong is a part of russian racial nature and no amount of money or patting on the back can ever change nature
>>541372620>welcoming russian animal in europeNo thx, never in history has that had positive consequences
>>541372620When I see you, I'm starting to miss korean doro poster. He was less annoying with his over-intellectualized bullshitery
And now they've got us on the brink of wwiii. Much better...
>>541372620One of the few sane rusanons on this board
>>541371781it's genocide of slavs, plain and simple, there is nothing more to it. politics doesn't really matter when you are dead and only living are old folks and cripples. I'm not sure about russian (they may be sacrificing churkas), but ukrainians sacrificed their future. Only thing that matters is your people.
>>541372325Poor ukrainians, being swindled into hating Russians! Fortunately last 4 years Vladimir Vladimirovic is doing everything in his power to reverse that unwarranted hate!
>>541376425>ukrainians sacrificed their futureoh yeah because their future as a part of the hordre would be so fucking bright lmao
>>541376468poles are so butthurt about russians historically - brainwashed from an early age they can't look at them rationally. it's a bit like kikes and goyim. it's understandable, but you are being prepped as a meat into the meat grinder that may or may not happen in near future, and you will take your position in pride.well, shit is fucked for all of us.ask yourself, what's the point of dying for oligarchs who want you to be replaced anyway (look at west or east) while indebting your future for generations?
>>541372325>tricked into hating RussiansSorry that i hate faggots, guess that's how i was born and raised, big deal
>>541371781Ukraine was as much a puppet state of Russia as France is a puppet state of USA
>>541376758who the fuck is >us, ivan?i could post any graph comparing virtually anything between former ussr countries that bailed, stuck with russia and russia to illustrate what your proximity to your cancer empire and it's influence doesbut i don't even fucking have to because everyone can already tell what the graph will show
>>541371861whos dick are u sucking sholomo?
>>541372325weird how everyone hates russians for absolutely no reasoncurious, even!
>>541371781Yes Make more stupid irrelevant excuses !Ukrainians did not destroyed Themselves and EU Enough!we need more !!!Like Nuclear winter would be nice!Why not?Right?RIGHT??
