Is there such a thing as winning too slowly?
According to people below 85 IQ - no. Those people don't know that every step of military victory has tremendous costs and they might not have enough resources to complete the endevour
Winning is winning. Russia is fighting a slow, strategic war. Western militaries and media think in terms of fast offensives and shock‑and‑awe, so they keep claiming Russia is “losing” simply because they don’t understand long‑term strategy.
It's not like it matters at this point, you retards let jews kill off your entire male population by forcing them to die in a pointless war over nothing.
If Ukraine keeps bombing the fuck out of Moscow surely this war will end.
>>541669816Russia is fighting the slow strategic war of getting bombed more every day.
>>541669659lmao
lmao there's a town called "stinky" I wonder what it smells like
>>541669900Would it end if they didn't?
>>541669900what if queeryiv keeps getting bombed the fuck outwill it end
>>541669659No. Russia is burning right resources non stop to keep it up. That's not a victory.
At least they captured Bakhmut without doing much damage.
>>541669659Putin is in no hurry, he's letting his enemies make all the mistakes
If Stinky falls so does Kiev
>>541669659Is there such thing as "after 5 years not understanding what a war of attrition is and why the war is exactly that"? Or do you exist in a video game where amount territory controlled magically gives you resources?I'm pretty sure you do understand that and even know how the war ends. Otherwise you would have been on the frontline and not waging wars on the internet.
>>541669900>bomb the fuck out of You mean their drone swarms that are shrinking?Meanwhile Russia is practically bombing Kiev every night now, and has shut down Odessa’s ports
>>541669944russian graveyards mog the shit out of ukrainian ones
Where did the water go?
>>541670111Flase, fighting war of attrition doesn't mean throwing meatsturm after meatsturm just to prove a point.
>>541669659To the last Russian.
>>541670028holy shitthey never fuck around in the middle eastall the piled of destroyed cities ovre thousands of yearsbunch of fags
>>541669659Hitler almost taking Moscow but the offensive slowing down and then the thing happened with the trillion tons of goods
If you can win it slowly, you can win it quickly.
>>541670111Yes, a war of attrition is when jews cause a lockdown of front movement and watch the gentiles slowly grind each other to meat paste.
>>541669816>just destroy your economy your demographics 40 years of trade relations and wipe out the local populace bro it’ll be worth it when we win in 8 years It’s actually unprecedented. There has never been a more wasteful war than this. Fullstop. Historically there would have been full on rebellions, court coups, and counter invasions by foreign rivals way before now to conquer this failed empire in its death spiral.
>>541669816There is no such thing as a slow strategic war. Successful wars are fought briefly and decisively, the longer a war drags on, the more of a strain it puts on the economy and military power of a country.
>>541670191>le Russia is throwing bodies as always, my Reddit buddies and my grandma told me so!Yes, of course. Russia fights with meatsturms with judeo-bolshevik commisars behind soldiers. Even on voluntary recruitment, yes. How could I forget?Not every sturm is a meatsturm. And sturms are inevitable factor of every war, in defense and offense, in a mobile war or a war of attrition. And you obviously don't know how storming a city in the war goes and why it takes so slow.
>>541670111When's the last time anyone, anywhere, 'won' a war of attrition?
>>541670136unofficial ones too
>>541669659Back in the day we had hundred years war, eighty years war and thirty years war. America had like 25 years of operations in Iraq, this might take a while. Give it 5-10 more years
>>541670607You wanna run that through the translate again, sugarcube?
>>541670607>And you obviously don't know how storming a city in the war goes and why it takes so slow.The reason it's so slow is that it's stupid and suicidal.You should break through the weak points of the enemy to cut off the logistics to the strong points, not storm cities.Russian strategic military command has been absolute dogshit throughout the war.The Pyrrhic victory at Bakhmut was a textbook example of how not to conduct offensive operations.
>>541670607How is Assad doing?
>>541670393>>541670191The frontline doesn't move for the same reasons it didn't in the first world war - technological advances. In the first world war two solutions have been found - tanks and stormtrooper tactics. And the second was much better solution but came at the end of the war.The drone revolution isn't so much about firepower but reconnaissance. To conduct a breakthrough in a mobile war, you have to assemble troops first wothout enemy knowing. It can't be done today. They will be detected and enemy would strengthen the part of the frontline.Then, you have to make a gap in the frontline wide enough for the troops to flood in without any hindrance from enemy's firepower. Basically, artillery strikes at the sides of a square and your troops move at the thin line in the center. Can't be done today again. The gap should be very wide. Modern artillery and drones strike at huge distances.Currently, the only solution found is slow, careful encirclement of the cities. Then the city gets pounded with everything we have, especially FABs. After the, the sturm commence.But you so far watched a bunch of videos of unsuccessful sturms and run around screaming "MEATSURMS" like idiots. Which would be forgivable 5 years ago, but not today.
>>541670670Germany against Russia and France/England against Germany in WWI.Soviets against Germany in WWII because Soviets only had to give the meatbags everything else the USA took care of.
>>541670866Этo нaмeк чтo мы пocыпимcя или чтo? Toгдa этoт пpимep для вac ближe. Accaд иcтoщилcя и пoддepжкa yшлa, ибo вoeвaл нe нa cвoи pecypcы, пoэтoмy тeпepь oн в плoйкy в Mocквa-Cити игpaeт. Дa и тa вoйнa ничeгo oбщeгo c тeкyщeй нe имeeт.
You can understand how Russia is "winning" by how happy Russians are when their military mamage to bomb some God forsaken block in Ukraine. They spam the board as it some kind of victory while they march at cm per year lol
>>541670874So much cope to say nothing of value.
>>541670028I have never seen such thriving city of an actual geopolitical importance!
>>541670977No one here is happy the civilian building got accidentally bombed. On a human level we understand the suffering. But it's sadly part of the war.
hohols are being put in handcuffs and send to the front thats winning
>>541670879All examples where the victorious powers proceeded to go to shit after the war. Attrition does not seem to be an intelligent strategy, even if theoretically you can win.
>>541669659>>541670136Yes, ok, but stop draft dodging
>>541669752You realize this applies to the losers as well right
>>541670936>brap brap
>>541671007Care to disprove? So far all I see is a primary school kid telling political scientists how the world works.
>>541669659>3 years>10 km>100,000 dead zegroidsLolLmao even
>>541671007He is right you know, notice how US troops for example had to abandon all bases in the middle east. Large troop concentrations as of now cant be used and without large troop concentrations there will be no large breakthroughs
I feel like the people cheering Ukraine are like 20 years old and dont know history at all. It took Russia 11 years to fully subjugate Chechenya, a much smaller state. And once they were done Chechenya became basically the most loyal praetorians of Putin. They are not in any hurry, and they have all the time in the world. Exactly the same scenario will play out in Ukraine. The war will take 5-10 years, and then Ukraine will collapse exactly as Afghanistan did. Then the FSB and similar services will clean up and Ukrainians will always claim they were against Zelensky from the start and nobody went to Maidan. And they will be the most loyal subjects of Russia.
>>541671096Hy нe хoчeшь нopмaльнoгo paзгoвopa - кaк хoчeшь. Пoчeмy нe в oкoпe кcтa? Toлькo нe гoвopи чтo хoтeл, пoдхoдил к TЦКaшникaм, нo нe бepyт.
>>541671127> Malaysiaimagine being a brown chink kek
>>541669659Only if there is a threat of A running out of supplies (2d Punic War. Red Cliffs) B running out of men power. C A&B is a threat happening again.
>>541670028Still nicer than parts of Chicongo.
>>541670136lol
>>541671055It's a tactic of last resort, the great war didn't started like it either. It surely is the most retarded and destructive tactic but sadly it is a working strategy in a life or death situation.Russia going to it almost instantly really shows how retarded Russians are.
>>541670879>waffen ss>meat bags>to the last aryan>believing the soviet meatbags cope>unironicallyits already over for germany isnt it?
>>541669659Bump
>>541670028
>>541671309If that never happened then Russia should stop crying about the 27 million killed communist swines.
>>541669659
>>541670607>And sturms are inevitable factor of every warThey're not, actually, you're just too retarded to do anything else. You don't have the ability to win decisively, so you just leverage your higher population to throw cannon fodder at the problem until you win. The fact you think that's a good thing is simply proof you all NEED to be killed anyway, because that's subhuman and psychotic.
>>541671190>The war will take 5-10 years, and then Ukraine will collapse exactly as Afghanistan did.It was the Soviet Union that collapsed after 10 years of 3 day SMO in Afghanistan.
>>541671190Are you prepared to fight indefinitely if that doesn't happen? Your entire strategy seems to hinge on "Russia in inherently invincible", which is demonstrably untrue because fucking Afghanistan beat you.
Russia is permanently gaining new territory each day, how many other countries can say that?
>>541671406>Youre are not because...becase...YOU ARE JUST NOT, OK!?
>>541671469Bombed out depopulated ruins littered with UXO and optical wires does not seem a good trade for any amount of military personnel and hardware, to say nothing of occasional Ukrainian strikes far into Russia. Putin could've picked any random Ukraine-sized part of Russia and committed to developing and building it up, instead of whatever the plan was here.
>>541671585NATO not absorbing Ukraine is the main objective in this war
>>541671585NATO not getting Ukraine is worth it to them, developing a random part in Russia does not stop NATO encroachment. If Mexico was poised to join some type of chinese led military alliance the US would do the same thing
>>541671203>нo нe бepyт.Lol this Anon was rejected by the Russian military for being too gay.
>>541671683Okay kid.
>>541671675Ukraine wasn't going to join NATO
>>541671585The war isn't about land. It is about our strategic security. The security Ukraine (and whatever is left of it) has been sabotaging for 35 years. And it never was in the interest of Ukraine as a state or it's people. They did it for foreigners. Both their elites and population. Maybe because of their weak national identity, attempts to prove something to us and maybe more than that - themselves. Incredibly bizzare, but that's how it is.
>>541671442>>541671190>implying there are enough hohols for 10+ years
>>541671726Glad I could educate you on that
>>541669900The slaves will get used to it and Putin can mobilize next year.>>541671737It's about your imperialist delusions and Putin's dementia. Even hohols have a stronger national identity than you mystery meat noviops
>>541671225>implying I'm a localI'm no more asian than you are monkeyzilian, stupid turdie lol
>>541671733That's not a risk Russia could take. Do you even strategy?
>>541671737>It is about our strategic security.Was someone planning to attack your trashy country?
>>541671675>>541671683Now Ukraine is effectively a NATO satellite and Sweden and Finland have officially signed on, putting NATO in shooting distance of Saint Petersburg. Seems counterproductive.>>541671737What security was Ukraine undermining that isn't guaranteed by Russia's nuclear arsenal? What did Putin think Ukraine was going to do?
>>541671894>Sweden and Finland have officially signed onStrategically irrelevant compared to Ukraine. Also, NATO has no missiles to defend itself and Russia can shoot back hard.
>>541671852writing down nato membership in constitution and yapping about acquiring the atom bomb doesnt seem so potuzhno now huhbtw ask merkel what minsk was all about
>>541671733NATO litterly offerd that they could officially join if they change some things NATO in Ukraine is a no no
>>541671894Russia is only safe when their borders are on the Carpathian mountains, which act as a choke point. NATO bases on the flat, Ukrainian land to the east would be game over for Russia. Similarly, NATO/Europe needs to be as far east as possible for their own strategic safety.
>>541671894>Sweden>Finland Not strategically important at all Poland could kick their asses and that are the people NATO is gonna bait next to be turned into a Ukraine
>>541671894Thats what they are fighting over, will it be or will it not be and also NATO was already in shooting distance to St.Petersburg since Estonia is in NATO. They had to either take a stand like in Georgia or accept being perpetually surrounded. Their war is simply realpolitik, every giant country seeks to get a sphere of influence for long term security purposes
>>541672012Some things included giving up the lands Russia claims.
>>541669816>russia>longterm strategy
>>541671978Those are definitely good reasons to die.
>>541672079hurry up then
>>541672019Naah we will push back Russia behind the urals then they have their safety with the urals mountains, that's exactly what they want it's a good deal.
Every thread about Russia attracts the most ignorant children and you all waste such good, intelligent posts on them only for the imbeciles to dismiss it anyway. Ukraine is cooked, as they say. There is no other outcome. Sorry kids, but that is how war works, and why nobody likes it, because at some point, one side has to admit they lost or else they are destroyed completely. We are watching the latter unfold in real time in Ukriane.
>>541669752>they might not have enough resourcesI don't think Russia has to ever worry about resources.
>>541672062No root out corruption in Ukraine (lol) and giving the natural resources in the east (they lost to Russia) as collateral these stupid fucks should have taken the deal in 22 they could have a really bright prosperous future
>>541669659OH OH
>>541671852Любaя бeзoпacнocть cтpoитcя нe из тeкyщих дeклapиpyeмых нaмepeний, a из пoтeнциaльных вoзмoжнocтeй. Mы нe мoжeм зaлeзть в гoлoвy coceдeй и пoнять чтo тaм пpoиcхoдит. И дaжe ecли знaeм, тo нaмepeния мoгyт пoмeнятьcя. Этo чepный ящик. Пoэтoмy лoгичнoe дeйcтвиe - ecли ecть вoзмoжнocть, тo cчитaть чтo oни eй вocпoльзyютcя. Taк гocyдapcтвa paбoтaли, paбoтaют и бyдyт paбoтaть. B кoнтeкcтe Укpaины, yчитывaя ee paзмepы, бoльшeй oпacнocтью cчитaлocь cнижeниe нaшeгo ядepнoгo cдepживaния. Moжнo зaceчь caмoлёт/paкeтy из мeлкoй Пpибaлтики или Финки. Ha Укpaинe этo нeвoзмoжнo. Paccтoяниe дo нaших кpyпнeйших пoлитичecких и экoнoмичecких цeнтpoв oчeнь низкoe. Эффeкт, нo в oбpaтнyю cтopoнy, вы ceйчac мoжeтe нaблюдaть нa ceбe c eжeднeвными пpилётaми.Этo ocнoвнoй фaктop. Ecть eщё миллиoн дpyгих пoмeньшe. Haпpимep, yчитывaя кyльтypнyю близocть, кyчy чeлoвeчecких cвязeй и тo чтo вы в oбщecтвeннoй cфepe вытвopяли и вытвopяeтe - Укpaинa этo иcтoчник пoлитичecкoй нecтaбильнocти.
>>541672113
>>541672115Stop smoking fent this war is a disaster for Western Europe
>>541671894>What security was UkraineStrategic security is built not around declarated intentions, but possibilities. If they can hinder it, they will. Black box theory. I answered it here >>541672164, too lazy to translate.
>>541672115Good luck with that. imo, Ukraine should go full Switzerland and be true neutralfags forever to keep the peace.
>>541672019Why would it be game over? NATO would've invaded? With what army? And with some countermeasure for Russia's nuclear arsenal?
>>541669816but how will you feel about it when you are being sent in the next meatwave pidor?
>>541669659This is a war of attrition. Territorial gains are not how success is measured. Which side still gets willing recruits? Which side can still supply the front adequately?
>>541671007Russians know how to win battles unlike you
>>541672185Western Europe isn't at war we aren't dying in the 100s of thousands...we surely will collapse because we send Ukraine some scraps.
>>541672164get outta here, tourist
>this is attrition war we so smart!it would be kinda believable if not for the wrinkle of russia losing 1400-1600 men every dayyeah there is attrition going on. but with a nuance
>>541672164>the reptilians wanted to attack us and take our wealthSure.
>>541670028Russia is going to own that land forever now so the damage doesn’t matter
>>541672386>>541672371Hy нe хoтитe пoнимaть, знaчит пoвтopитe тy кaтacтpoфy чтo иcпытывaeтe нa ceбe ceйчac, ecли вooбщe бyдeт гдe пoвтopять. Пoчeмy нe в oкoпaх кcтaти?
>>541672130Ukraine was a puppet of russia 100s of years and we saw how prosperous Russia made them, if they become Russian puppets again this time everything will be surely different.
>>541669659Not really, slow and steady can win the race.That said it just switches the burdens around, fast advances cost different things they might simply not have or not have had.Either way everyone apart from the two warring parties would like you to have made peace by whatever terns yeaterday.>But they obstruct it with unreasonableness, only by aiding our totally reasonable side can it happen!Yeah no.Vladimir P. or Vladimir Z. really does not make the slightest difference to me and if anything both your performances are cautionary tales against getting involved.
>>541672348What a joke
>>541671265not everyone is as evil as a Westernernot everyone starts a war with a war crime and continues it with terrorism
>>541672387no it isnt. this anon with ru flag said so himself>>541671737after they win the war and hinder the plan of ukraine join nato they just give back the land. because it is not about land
>>541672459I said get out, your kind's got no place in a western imageboard
>>541672518That sounds like a rather islamic approach to war if we add "...and then starts to whine about being genocided when it becomes evident things are not going well for them".Though one could argue this applies to both Ukraine and Gaza.
>>541672200Okay, cool. In that case why is NATO not chimping out over Kaliningrad, which is the exact same missile threat if not worse? Or Belarus, which is about as close to Germany as Ukraine is to Russia? And why did Americans stop trying after Bay of Pigs? There's a lot of things you can do in peacetime to stop the absolute worst scenario from happening, especially when that scenario is far away. Ukraine was nowhere near entering NATO, and with the way things were going before the war the EU would be the first to oppose placing missile silos in Ukraine. FFS they were crapping their pants over letting Ukraine attack Russia territory while the war was going on. Russia could've achieved all their security objectives through soft power and intelligence services alone, and fucked everything up over some hyper-paranoid "but what if".
>>541669659What the fuck is this map? There are already fighting 10-15 km beyond that point. People are already fleeing Kramatorsk
>>541672590Trying to drive people away from this place with words and images is an excercise in futility, as /chug/ and /uhg/ their presence should remind you.Also with the amount of muslims and shitskins here i am not certain if this place technically qualifies as western.
>>541672208Trusting that a rival won't attack is pretty naive as is assuming that a counter to nuclear missiles won't be developed at some point. It's better to control the strategic points for yourself because who knows what's round the corner.
>>541670396You're retarded. Historically, wars were measured in centuries.
>>541670396>There has never been a more wasteful war than this.Paraguayan war was pretty retarded
>>541671085The losers dont have a choice so no bottom line. Some people still believe that there exists a point where even the perfect goyim (russians) will revolt over shit living conditions
>>i am das western peepoo >impotently spams gore>shits in bag:^)
>>541669816Western militaries understand that being stuck in a long war hinders your ability to respond to other situations and changes in the world.
>>541671683>NATO not getting Ukraine is worth it to themNow they got finland and sweden instead + ukraine will hate russia forever.Retarded trade. Especially considering that having buffer zones means less now because of long range weapons.
>>541672590A я дyмaл ты пoaдeквaтнee чeм poзoвый. Bидимo y вac пpивычкa пocтить бeccмыcлeнныe кapтинoчки c тpyпaми хpoничecкaя, ничeгo нe пoдeлaть.Taк пoчeмy нe нa фpoнтe-тo, зaхиcтники?
>>541672590> we are Western saar
>>541669816>long-term strategyThis serves Putin well, everybody else in Russia not so much
>>541671800>The slaves will get used to it and Putin can mobilize next year.they will do it this year after duma elections in september
>>541672607nobody cares about Gazabut West is losing both in Ukraine and Middle East so it is your tactic that is flawed
>>541672844There are major chokepoints from Finland to Russia, Ukraine is flat terrain. Finland and Sweden were already heavily in the western sphere of influence despite being nominally neutral, Ukraine was not, Ukraine is historically and culturally intertwined with Russia and Russia has viewed it as part of its sphere of influence like 500 years. Imo its the only possible trade they could have made or just accept they got strategically neutered for the foreseeable future, they already confronted Georgia for similar reasons and had to commit from their perspective
>>541672623Kaliningrad isn't the biggest econoic or political center. Belarus is important to, but it's basically already integrated into Russia, functioning the same as any other region.Ukraine was bigger than all of those neighbours combined, both in a territorial sense and in term of population. Soft power would work. We tried. We got the same answer as those Ukie retards above posting old cherry-picked photos from provincial towns. Trying to told rationally, show them statistics of our economical development, even averages PPP wages after taxes, didn't work. They still live mentally in early 90th, "but that's Paris! I dont care if I would earn the same, I want to live in Paris!". Basically, blind faith in an old brand and nothing more. But it doesn't matter anyway since Ukraine is dead as a country.
>>541673055Indeed? Hence all the Iranian whining... after its pawns have each been beaten to a pulp while the other muslims try to uproot what remains?No, the Middle East is faring as badlysgainst the West as Ukraine, and both are rather desperate to hide it by noticeably similar propaganda tactics.
look up "pyrrhic victory"
>>541672490nice comparison glownigger, it's like comparing tricycle bike with cross race bikeand i'ts irrelevant since in Iraq too, just like in Afghanistan, Mutts are going to lose all influence once they retreat their militaryso their 25 year campaign will end up with a loss
>>541673130Trump is the only one whining here glowie
>>541673117> power would workWouldn't. Hate phoneposting.
>>541672695Consider the logistics of moving armies and supplies back then and now.
>>541673108>Ukraine is historically and culturally intertwined with Russia and Russia has viewed it as part of its sphere of influence like 500 years.And now they will hate russians with a burning passion for the next millenia.
>they want to decide for themselves and not live in abusive prison system aka russki mir?>not on my watch
>>541672623>In that case why is NATO not chimping outand what do you think Ukraine war is?
>>541673183frontlines weren't on the other side of the planet back then and less actors were involved from the other side of the planet toonot that much changed
>>541673169America is the west most of all, that infection that is the EU is what has been protecting muslims.As it rotted so too did their protection, and they discovered that their own lacking capacities were not the reason for any of their succeses in this and the past few centuries.They were a hobby project whose benefactor has passed away and like the jews they will be cleaned up.
>>541672824>>541672903you too, go back to lefty/pol, shitskin bunkertroons
>>541673151If a win is only if you occupy it for eternity then Russia lost WWII too since we kicked you out in the 90s.
>>541673184Chechens dont hate russians they fight for them and contrary to popular belief finns didn't hate the russians either during the time after ww2 which was called finlandization, I was shocked to see old videos of finnish people in the 60s praising the USSR, Lenin and presidents who were war veterans themselves were always acting all buddy buddy with them despite everything that happened. Vietnam doesn't hate America at all either, it doesn't always work out that way
>>541673117>Kaliningrad isn't the biggest econoic or political center.You were talking specifically about the missile threat, and Kaliningrad is one giant airbase.>Belarus is important to, but it's basically already integrated into Russia, functioning the same as any other region.Oh, that's your problem. I was talking about *NATO* chimping out over *Russia* being a threat to *NATO*, you theory-of-mind deficient retard.>We tried.You really fucking didn't. It's not "PPP" or standard of living Ukrainians revolted over. That's not what nations revolt over in general. It was about Yanukovych doing his authoritarian shit with journalist killing and keeping oligarchs in power. People don't get mad over not having the latest iphone, they get mad over not being able to advance in society because the top is reserved to cronies. The EU was a promise of fixing that, even if just a promise.I get the impression this is what Russians don't understand. You can jack off to PPP and economics all you want, what people really hate about Russia is, as cliched as it sounds, unfreedom. People want to get somewhere in life without being born to or knowing the right person or being an unscrupulous piece of shit, and the West at least promises that.
>>541673303a win is to win over a populationsomething jews never will be capable of and is the reason your empire of faggots is dying and why the Emperor of Faggotry Trump is crying on twitter every dayyour jewish strategy will always result in revolt. and guess what faggot, your opponents are now better armed than you and you are unable to turn this aroundtick tock glownigger, tick tock, its only a matter of time before domestic population revolts too ...
>>541673210>for themselvesThey literally were told to continue fighting by Boris Johnson in March 2022, when they wanted to bail. Would have kept all the land including DPR, if they agreeded at our terms, but alas, being a slave for the Westerners and their interests is better than being equal with Russians, I guess. And everything the receice now, every bomb is thus deserved and by their own chosing.
>>541671725kek, every russian flag are faggots
>>541673296>lefty/polliterally fuck all the way off, newfag nigger.
>>541673303>painting Tito's Yugoslavia as "Russia"The absolute state of nafo education.
>>541673151>it's like comparing tricycle bike with cross race bikeOf course, it's way harder to invade country on a different continent than a country sharing borders with you.
>>541673428>being equal with RussiansDon't kid yourself, you'd russify them. I'm sure you consider Belarussians your "equals" too, even though Belarussian is a minority language in Belarus lmao>inb4 not a real languageWhatever makes you sleep better at night
>>541673422Russia literally gave Ukraine an actual identity with its war, that is something no one else could have done.Win or no win that will haunt them for the rest of their days precisely because they behaved in that way that you mock as making it impossible to win.Economically and militarily the war is definitely not going in favor of Ukraine, but strategically victory has been all but ensured - and not by any smart or good action of the west mind you, we're failures in Ukraine.But that does not matter when it made Russia do worse to itself.
>>541673422So pidors lost since everyone hates Russia in east Europe especially Ukraine the most.
>>541673474>memeflaggot passcuckYou've been shilling for quite a while huh
>>541673410>NATOAs I said, the black box. We don't know intentions and we don't know the future. Thus, if they can endanger our safety (in any way possible), they will.>YanukovychIt never was about him. It was about the path they chose. Jerking off to NATO and other Western structures has been a cult in Ukraine since the independence. The problem is it started to become mainstream after 2003 and finally went full blown after Yanikovich fall, even before Crimea. NATO attache had an office in and direct access to Ukraine's Defence Ministry since 2005. It is unthinkable situation for any country claiming to be "independent".Yanokovich never was pro-Russian. None of Ukrainian elites ever were. They all were pro-Western. Attache wasn't removed even during Yanikovich times. They had fanatics and pragmatics. Pragmatics finally lost. Thus Ukraine descended into the nightmare it experiences today. A nightmate which was fatal for it as a political entity. No country could ever recover from losing half of it's population (most of refugees are female of birthing age), all it's industry and port infrastructure.
UH OHSTINKYYYYYYYYYY
>ukrannykekaroo
>>541671737>"The war isn't about land"ahem.
>>541670275learn english
>>541673493First of all, there is many variants of how sub-entity can exist withing bigger one. See Bavaria in Germany. Second, Ukrainian language never was a problem for modern Russia. And it never is. Irish speak English and don't give a fuck.Third, that was better than the fatal nightmare today. Their country and ethnos are dead. 28 mln, most a elderly or males who would flee the country once the war stops. Or do you really think all those Oksanas today won't assimilate in Germany?
>>541670136>>541671262Lots of dead Ukrainians and Russians
>>541673706Obviously ot became a question with time. Sacrifices has to be paid with something.
>>541669816who do you think is going to win this war of attrition? western backed Ukraine with unlimited resources or russia with minimal backing from Iran / China
>>541673808The war was always about capturing more land. It's what russians have always done
>>541673410all is much more simpleukrainian business was uncompetitive in same market with russia, ukrainians could not even manage what they had and became bankruptso ukrainian business owners decided to drop all, sell own people and supply west with raw materials and agriculture just to keep what they have, ukrainian elite was just afraid that russians will take away their goyimas a result they lost everything as usualits a mistake to measure non russians with russian "cultural" template, little russians are eastern slavs but they are not great russians, there is same difference as was between yankee and dixierussians follow industrial protectionism, ukrainians are free trade plantators - unfortunate ukrainian goyim are niggers in this case lol, such model cant survive in 21 centurythere was the same difference between PLC and russian empire, PLC was agrarian free trade country, russia was mercantilistic and later one of the first protectinistic states (after france sweden etc)you can see this difference even in army recruitment, russians pay money, ukrainians beat capture goyim on the streetszog used the fear of local ukrainian tribal chiefs and infiltated the country, now they will all die, nothing new, happened before
>>541673849Then why we wanted to push Donbass republics back into Ukraine before summer of 2022? Including March negotiations.
>>541673849Technically this was more about preservation of land, as though nominally Ukrainian they have had control over the Crimea for the grand majority of the past twohundred or so years, as it is a vital capstone to their southern defense strategy to the point that this fact is even reflected in popular games such as Risk (or its lesser known cousin Diplomacy) but it is also illustrated by the many wars for Crimea over the year, of which the Ukraine war is just the latest as soon as propagandists on both sides get properly shut up.
>>541673760>Third, that was better than the fatal nightmare today.>Why didn't you let us add your country to ours? Yes it's not perfect, but we could've saved you from the horrible alternative!>The horrible alternative we're saving you from? Us genociding your nation, of course!Fucking Russians.
>>541674125>Us genociding your nation, of course!Yes, because the reason they become our target to begin with was their retarded NATO cult endangering our safety. No cult, no problems. They kept they political directions out of spite and died in the process.We didn't do something other countries in our place wouldn't have done.
>>541674205True, but that predictability is precisely what made it so risky, as every strategist knew what you were going to do.
>>541674361Than the fact they chose death is even more retarded.>If you keep doing what you are doing we will attack you>Lol ok>*BAM!*>Nooooooo why are you attacking us?!
>>541674205ru invaded crimea in 2014 and chanted on tv "vsjo naša vsjo naša" and pushed ukraine towards natoleast oblivious hivan
>>541671320Kek a true classic
>>541674428Ah but you make the mistake of thinking i was talking about Ukrainian strategists. ^^See: >>541673513I find it disgusting how we used Ukraine and have opposed it from beginning to end, but i cannot deny that it was a Xanathos gambit for us; our outcomes ranged only from winning big to winning small.
>>541673629>As I said, the black box. We don't know intentions and we don't know the future. Thus, if they can endanger our safety (in any way possible), they will.Okay retard, I'll spell it out for you. Kaliningrad for NATO is like Ukraine for Russia. A platform from which missiles can be fired at NATO from a really short distance. If, by your logic, it is a huge potential threat to NATO, then why did NATO not try to conquer it in 35 years? The answer: because there's a fuckhuge distance between "might maybe potentially be a threat" and "is a threat" that you can maneuver in. Making Russia's "security" justification bullshit.>Jerking off to NATO and other Western structures has been a cult in Ukraine since the independence.Because they saw Poland to the west and Russia to the east and could clearly see that Poland was doing better after communism fell. That's soft power.>The problem is it started to become mainstream after 2003 and finally went full blown after Yanikovich fall, even before Crimea.Again, soft power. EU made the right choice that Russia did not, appealing to and supporting grassroots movements.>Yanokovich never was pro-Russian. None of Ukrainian elites ever were. They all were pro-WesternWhich is why when Yanukovych was deposed he ran away to the West, oh wait>They had fanatics and pragmatics.You call them such because one option is yours and another isn't. The EU just knew how to make a better offer. Because, again, the issue with Russia that Russians can't percieve is unfreedom. Ukraine, just by virtue of being somewhat of a separate country, couldn't be seduced by a promise of being a slave in a grand empire. Maybe this is where Russia fucked up.>No country could ever recover from losing half of it's population (most of refugees are female of birthing age), all it's industry and port infrastructure.Debatable. Poland survived 120 years of russification, then later losing one fifth in WW2, Ukraine might too.
>>541674458>and pushed ukraine towards natoYou don't understand the root of the problem. Read my previous posts.
>>541670028those bunch of commieblocks destroyed is a good thing. too bad they will be replaced by equally soulless putinblocks.
>>541674533>Okay retardDidn't read further. I don't intend to have a discussion with spergs.
>>541674205>Yes, because the reason they become our target to begin with was their retarded NATO cult endangering our safety.Nigger we have Kaliningrad right at the border and Medvedev ooking about nooks every other day, and we're not losing our cool. I bet Russia would seethe to no end about atrocities if Kaliningrad was even touched. And you're trying to tell me genociding a nation of 40 million is a-OK because maybe possibly in a few decades they might join an alliance that we think is hostile to us? Fucking Russians.
>>541671190>It took Russia 11 years to fully subjugate Chechenya, a much smaller state. And once they were done Chechenya became basically the most loyal praetorians of Putin.You have it the wrong way around Chechenya are the least loyal, moscow gives them special rights and privileges other russian regions don't have to make sure they don't chimp out. They basically have their own army and laws. Ethnic russians which used to form large part of Chechenya were ethnically cleansed. Only Chechenya now live in Chechenya.
>>541674566Of all places on the Internet, you expect to be coddled here? You misunderstood plain English twice in a row, expect to be called a retard and get over it.
>>541674644*Only Chechens
how many times has western or nato officials threatened russia before 2022? how many times has kremlin threatened west? you see monkey you are the subhuman nigger threatening others. you are the problem
>>541674693Threats are pointless and infantile, only the actions matter.
>>541674662kacapska pizda pretends to be offended now but it's akchually beause your arguments were sound
>>541669659>Ukraine before 1991.- 51 million population>Ukraine before 2022.- 42 million population>Ukraine now - 25 million population Also they blew up every single tank you had in 2 weeks time period ; and you had the most tanks in EuropeWhat is the argument here ? That Ukraine still exists ?That they didn't wipe you off the map in miliseconds ?Here is actual question:If war stops tomorrow how is Ukraine going to function ?
russians are permanently mindbroken by ukraine existing every day, they feel incomplete without it (because we wuz russian empire n shieeeeeeeeet)their entire storiography relies on it being considered as part of their influence/control, they don't view it as an independent sovereign state and never willtherefore the only possible outcome is mass TZD which is proceeding according to plan, everything else is just arguing semantics and justification for chimping out (muh security and HATO even doe in 2010 ukraine put it in their constitution that they won't join any alliance)
>>541669659its not about wining, its about killing ucrainians, and weakening russia on the side ask the rabis
>>541671442Technically, they were in Afghanistan to give aid to the then-current government of Afghanistan, because it was on the brink of collapse from Mujahedeen rebels from Afghanistan and all over the Middle East, that people didn't know shit about the strategy and tactics of in a heavily mountainous country. Their economy was also going to utter shit by that point. Ukraine is pretty flat and similar to parts of Russia, so minus learning to work around drones as a new technology on the battlefield, it shouldn't be as hard for them.
>>541675185>>Ukraine before 1991.- 51 million population>>Ukraine before 2022.- 42 million population>>Ukraine now - 25 million populationyes, the price to not be russian is high, unfortunatelybut being russian is a fate worse than death, so
>>541675367Plus it was heavily integrated into the rest of Russia, so the usual Russian weakness of wonky logistics due to superbig empty country was nearly absent there.
>>541669659stupid manufactured nations get stupid results. Like the one you post from dying into half of population over 30 years.
>>541675185>25rusniggers can't go a day without lying huhthe majority of that "loss" is refugees, btw
>>541671726He's not wrong. In both world wars we kept a close eye on Mexico and even made it clear to them in a diplomatic manner that we would annihilate them if they aided any nations we were against. That's why they didn't fuck around in WW1, knowing we could make good on that, and were aligned with the Allies in WW2, so it wasn't as much of an immediate concern.
>>541675416How many Ukrainians are there in Poland ?How long are Ukrainians in Poland already ?How long will they stay ?
>>541675557All due respect you are likely not getting most of them back, they integrate well and are proving an excellent way to offset the effects of islamic integration.Plus every year you take longer and every bit of land razed more the less reason they have to return to a home long gone.Maybe their children will want to return.
>>541675557I saw different numbersI might be wrong or have been lied toAnd what does it mean in government controlled territories ? Is there like 5 people in non government controlled territories ?
>>541673833Mate, we've already run out of missiles.
>>541675367>Mujahedeen rebels>Polish jew rubbing hands in his graveReagan which is held as a right wing leader defeating commies had so many jews around telling him inventing jihadis again which Eastern European Christians defeated after centuries of warfare is a good idea.
>>541675597>How many Ukrainians are there in Poland ?just under 2 million according to googles >How long are Ukrainians in Poland already?we've had Ukrainian work immigration here since 1991the big wave came in 2022, obviously >How long will they stay ?most will stay until the war ends or they move on to Germany a minority will integrate and remain here
>>541675557>refugeesfrom what? Though you're winning, why your whores ran away?
>>541675635keep lying, zissy. really beating the allegations
>>541675719...Are you mocking Russia or the west there?Both clear cases of propaganda that quiye literally ended up blowing up in their faces.
>>541672844Buffer zones are still a hindrance to stable logistics of an attacker. You can long range attack and they can long range attack back, but if you want to occupy anything within their borders, it's easier if you can have an uninterrupted approach to their borders before any hostilities break out, rather than having to close that gap in the middle of hostilities.
>>541675773That figure was already included in your 25 million though...?
>>541675635>to offset the effects of islamic integrationby fucking them and keeping them tame lol. Pastanigger diamond jew, your pets will kill you and will be a beautiful webm.
>>541669659How many Mykolas got funneled into that killbox to hold the ground? It's a war of attrition, hasn't been a maneuver war since year 1.
>>541675772>why your whores ran away?learn english, pajeet
>>541669915How many hours was the air raid in Kiev? 120 hours or some shit. Meanwhile Ukies are bombing dildo warehouses.
>>541671085Yea but generally defenders advantage. It costs more to tread across open ground especially in the drone age.
>>541675839Did you have a stroke while writing that...?Or are you one of Turkey's shills upset that i am not supporting the war against its greatest rival?Either way the Ukrainians are as welcome to stay as they are to go away, unlike the muslims.
>>541675861your mom deepthroath me and knows no english. How's weather in gay-la-vive you jidan murdar?
>>541669944angry zister
>>541675924fuck them both as both are parasites
>>541670396>flagBro you can't be serious. Please delete this post and have someone else say this instead of a fucking american.
>>541675733It really was pretty stupid in the long run. Of any system of governance contending for "the heart and minds" of the middle east, democracy worked the least in most areas, so plan B against the spread of socialism was apparently to just nuke it all with religious radicals educated and trained in Pakistan, and let them establish theocracies instead. Just utterly fucked all progress made against that from the previous centuries.
>>541675951Even then using one to mitigate the other makes sense, the Ukrainians are not shy about calling out islam.But we both know they are infinitely better than thr muslim parasites in general, and unlike them they integrate.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jO9EAecC7LYRussians just wandering around their capital living a normal life. Reckon there's that many military aged men wandering Kiev?
>>541675994glad you agree. Obama and sheClinton bitch did the same with "arab spring" removing autocrat dinasties replacing them wih Muzzie brotherhood. What they did in Egypt? They killed Copts and never harmed a jew. Same in Syria and Iraq. Even if Z jew from Poland which I cannot bothered to spell his name right now was dead, the same policy is in place. Use muzzies for jewish interests, like they use SA and other usefull tools like migrants in Europe.
>>541676063Now show us Siberia.
>>541675557> AI peremogaCool.Hohol official estimates, voices by Denys Uliutin, the Minister of Social Policy of Ukraine: there is 22 million hohols.https://censor.net/en/news/4002393/there-are-22-25-million-people-remaining-in-government-controlled-territory-in-ukraineBritish estimates: there is 20 million hohols.https://archive.is/pjWp2
>>541676135Move the goal posts some more. People are here saying that Moscow is getting bombed and all the young men are getting ground to paste in Ukrainian city fortresses (that have zero strategic value).
>>541676135...Do you even know what Sibrria is?When has that ever been properly populated?
>>541669816They have liberated the 10 km strip from Zirka to Myrne a very strategic Zirk to Myrne. Everyone thinks about Bakhmut. But Bakhmut but Bakhmut has zero strategic importance compared to Zirka to MyrneIf Russia was trying to make a point, then they made it and they win. But they probably forgot the point.
>>541676186>a quarter of the russian population lives in siberia>when has that ever been properly populateddumb nigga>>541676177>dodging>muh (((insulated capital)))kek
>>541676025>the Ukrainians are not shy about calling out islamwhy you retards do not undertand that when I'm online, and maybe 10 other bases anons, we'll shit on your stupid propaganda de jidan murdar?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vMAo_zOgBApisscraine have chechen jihadi regiments as barrier troops sent everywhere there is trouble with running hohols. Why the fuck you try to fix the narrative here, do it on redit discord and x you inbred moron.
Its bizarre to watch how much the Russian side of the war obsesses over territorial gainThey'll gloat over maps that shows how they've secured another kilometer of land, yet remain completely blind to the ten thousand men and countless armed vehicles they lost in the campaign at a cost of only a fraction of that on their opponents side.(Not to imply territorial gain is meaningless, it just seems vastly over-focused on from the Russians. I hypothesise this is just a symptom of their military high command being rotted through with the soviet era bureaucracy mentality of endlessly shifting blame or bushing it under a carpet while trying to deceitfully taking more credit than is due)
>>541676256me taking the photo drinking all vodka
>>541676256...Yes, because tossing a quarter of a rather thinly populated country's populace in an area large enough to be a small planet totslly makes it properly populated...?You should not be insulting the intelligence of anyone and maybe not of any thing.
>>541672745They literally genocided themselves what was their fucking problem.
>>541676267I have no idea who you are or what jidan murdar would even be ya muslim sucking retard.I am literally just speaking from my own experience here, no amount of propaganda you bring up can put a dent in that.
>>541676346>>541672745Gaza says hi.
>>541673296I love seeing pics of shills knowing that even I, a twink with barely any fighting experience, could pummel each and every one of them. It makes me feel good, thank you :)
>>541676309>HUR DUR SIBERIA ISN'T THAT POPULATED>it actually had a quarter of the russian population>HUR DUR THE POPULATION IS THIN>because russians keep dyingkek
>>541669659nope. slow and steady to bleed out nato.
>>541676278Holy projection Batman. Seen the bullshit cope about the Liman salient? Every time Ukraine does a local force surge and take a few km back it's all over evrything, including mainstream press. No mention of the 1000s of bussified conscripts minced in the process.
>>541676389Are you by any chance called Mohammed?Because such a lackung grasp of what should be your own language is rather suspicious.Because yes, populated does refer to population density.Not to one guy living on the moon so to speak.
>>541675574>That's why they didn't fuck around in WW1They didn't fuck around because there were civil wars going on. Relations between the US and Mexico and Canada are not comparable to Russia and it's neighbors https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Revolution
>>541669659They've already taken Mykolaivka and Chervone. They're sitting outside of Stinky right now. Your map is WAY off.
>>541676278>>ten thousand menAs we've seen, Russia considers this completely worthless. So why would they ever bring it into their own considerations?Its basically a society of turboboomers.
>>541676360>jidan murdarmaybe look into it, who imported all those muzzies. Concern troll from /chug/, post anti-jewish memes.
>>541676504Which city is Stinky again? I haven't paid attention to the maps of this chanceless war for several years now.
>>541676504It's probably Deepstate or UAMaps cope.
>>541676445>hur dur look how many men walk around mosqueow does kyiv have this many>actually russia was taking a lot from siberia>HUR DUR SIBERIA DOESNT HAVE THAT MANY>it has like 35 million people>HUR DUR ITS A BIG SPACE NOT THAT MANYkeep being a retarded zigger nigger.
>>541669659>Is there such a thing as winning too slowly?the USA has been doing it for 250 years and Israel 78 years.
>>541669944top kek
>>541676241OK Zelensky compromises and says Russia Wins and They LOSE. Then Cedes The Territories held by Russia, including Crimea. Not so it can be turned into a autonomous state called novo russia but whatever Putin decides to do with it since Putin WINS.In exchange Russia recognizes the autonomy of the battle map. Everything West is autonomous Ukraine, and everyone can go home and war is over besides a DMZ. Its going to be a tough pill to swallow but all zelensky is eating right now is Putins Big dick of the former soviet union so this dick is better.
>>541675557Oh look the globohomo AI programmed to lie in favor of ukraine is saying the same thing the globohomo paid shills are saying.What are the odds?AI also says the 2015 ukraine offensive never happened.
>>541676434Go back to India.
>>541676169>Ukraine’s Population May Stand at 29–30 Million in Government-Controlled Areas, Demographer Sayshttps://mezha.net/eng/bukvy/07281be1_ukraine-s_population_may/august 2026. try again, petukh>inb4 xe starts quoting elon musk and fedorov
>>541676512>"THEY DINDU!"Okay then we'll just remove them, make these apparantly jewish weapons...?It literally solves the problem directly and unlike muslims they have been here far longer than you, making your version tenuous at best, meaning we kill two birds with one stone while sidestepping both your evident interest in protecting muslims here and claimed jewish plans.>"NOO YOU CAN'T JUST REMOVE JEWISH WEAPONS BECAUSE YOU JUST CAN'T OKAY!?!!"Aha.You'll excuse me for not wasting time on your islamic blabberterms.
>>541676530>Stinky>cityit's a village if you look on the map but in pidorganda it's a huge fortress, the last on the way to Kiev
>>541676509>a society of turboboomersboomers is a term associated with jewUs 50's liberties and population boom, fueled by their newly found dominance of Europe and Asia. Poland, Romania, Germany and other countries US sent to jew dominance had a whole population of war orphans and jew created gulags killing all the elites. So the Russian pensioners are not boomers, they are just brainwashed low IQ remnants but still they love their grandkids instead of mutilating their dicks.
>>541676608I'm probably more English than you are dickhead (and a fair bit of Welsh but whatever).
>>541676663>then we'll just remove thempost the webm, is not my posts stopping you.
>>541676599>2015 ukraine offensiveWhat new legend is this?
>>541676664No it's not, people on here just meme it because of the name.
>>541676544>LOOK NOTORIOUSLY EMPTY SPACE STILL EMPTY, THIS IS EQUAL TO OUR CAPITAL BEING NOTICEABLY EMPTYLiterally stop aiding your own enemies with your impressive stupidity, i need you faggots to get a proper bargaining position so you can get over yourself and make a deal with them.
>>541676377That's a one sided massacre.
>>541676599Post milk
>>541676664Ah, thanks.It's literally called Stinky...?>>541676708Again i literally have no idea who you or your shillclub are, all i have are webms of cats.
>>541676733>comes into thread to make retarded point about 1 spot having more men in it than another spot>really just seething that it's taken him 5 years just to get stuck in the Donbas.kek
>>541676706>Welshnice sheeps you have there anon, see no harm will come to them. Also remember MI5 boss is now a jewish hohol cunt. 4 jewish eyes and a crooked jeet.
>>541673428>Would have kept all the land including DPRthat is simply a blatant lie. DPR was already "independent" (wink wink) in February...
>>541676727everything the russians take is the ukrainian nazi regime's last fortress everything the ukrainians defend is an empty destroyed village you are clearly unfamiliar with the Oxcart School of Russian Philosophy
>>541676765That is kinda what any self-inflicted genocide looks like in practice, better footage doesn't change a damn about that
>>541673513>but strategically victory has been all but ensuredAre you saying that even if ukraine loses this is still a win for nato ultimately or am I misunderstanding?
>>541676792>It's literally called Stinky...?it's transliterated into stinky in Latin script
>>541676792afraid to post Christchurch webm then? Or Australia hanukka beach party when they never ever had a Christmas beach party? Told you...either you're the concern pastanigger jew (you are) or someone which can learn a lot from this site. 1st lesson: being a homo is bad.
>>541676800Sure hun, keep getting your slavs and the other slavs killed for literally nothing while the rest of us look on in amazement while you sink deeper and deeper into the hole of your own delirium.I mean you literally just tried to compare a capital city to Siberia, i could not mock that with absurdity if i tried because it's already literally there.
>>541676586This is probably not acceptable to Zelensky since through Assymetric and Symetric warfare he probably imagines he can take the whole fucking thing and say many come to Zelensky and they always die. He just has to keep the meat flowing. I dunno I havent talked to any of these people.
>>541676904>think of the poor Ukrainians >Please stop fighting and let Russia take overFuck off Zigger Nigger.
