This should be the primary social and political project of all human civilization. We as a species have the resources and technology to give everyone a good and dignified life worth living.
too bad indians and niggers exists making it impossible
Sorry brotha but market doesn't allow arbitrage. No such thing as free energy in this world.
>>541689113Agreed. The world should figure out how everyone can live comfortablySoon, no one will have jobs. They will have no option but to live on free moneyAnyone who does not recognize this is in denial
I think a better and more realistic idea would be a job guarantee program.
>>541689113You can't have free anything and free migration you dumb fuck. Also if all basic needs were provided said niggers would just breed until system collapse. You literally cannot have nice thing along with kikes, subhumans or, women's rights. They are mutually exclusive.
>>541689113It only works in a high trust society. We can't have UBI with multiculturalism, and especially not after importing tons of third-worlders of low caliber.The problem is we need to get rid of all the identity-specific safety nets and give everyone regardless of working status the same amount. Single moms don't deserve more, dumb immigrants don't deserve more, niggers don't get more for reparations, etc.It's just like the tip economy where gig workers claim you should tip more and cry when you don't but if the system was actually done away with and rolled into wages properly they'd get pissed because they'd make less net. Same with gibs.
>>541689339Easy fix, just remove all the H1B workers and illegals.
>>541689508I thought people actually breed much less with women's rights/feminism and a higher quality of life. Aren't Western countries an example of this hypothesis being true?
>>541689693Yes it's true. Birth rates in Africa fell rapidly after receiving gibs. It was like 8+ children per women previously and now it's like 3+ per women. Still high but not as high.
>>541689759Stress causes lots of disordersWhen one has to worry about livelihood, it causes stressSome people go on eating binges to resolve stressSome drown in alcoholSome go and fuckSome do all of the aboveIts amazing how if you remove stress from people's livesEverything returns to balance
>>541689224>Soon, no one will have jobs.Pure demoralisation and doom mongering.There's always work to be done, by honest industrious persons, just not bullshit ones, "careers", scamming etc.
>>541689113you lost tranny
>>541689113>i can't believe Reddit doesn't pay me to moderate all these subs. Its UNFAIR. there, fixed it for you
>>541689113Data Centers are a cover for zero-point energy centers. UBI/UHI comes swiftly after they go live.
>>541689925How is it demoralizingTo have a life free of job worriesWhat kind of masochistic man actually WANTS to be a WAGIE?If you do not have a job you can still have hobbiesDo some gardening, arts, video games, gym, quiet walks in natureThere is still lots of cool stuff to doMan was never designed for this post industrial hellscapeIt is actually AI healing humanity
>>541690143not everyone lives in new delhi.
>>541689113lol, lmaoGovernments can't even pay a decent wage to doctors and teachers. But NOW everybody will get a decent income.
>>541689113> UNIVERSAL BASIC INCOME This should be the primary social and political project of all human civilization.hahahahaha, fk you and your false civilization.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WE0HSvU3gsE
>>541689113not in the expensive West.
>>541689113You don't have anything to contribute to the discussion besides, "dude free shit lmao"Your voice doesn't matter.
>>541689989>>541690050>>541690422Why are you so hostile to the idea?
>>541690547Because the only people willingly advocating for the idea are lazy socialists who just want to find any excuse to not have to work a 40hr/wk job and think that machines replacing middle-management is the perfect excuse to mass implement the worst idea known to mankind.If you want to put on a dress and get fucked like a whore, by all means. But don't expect us to follow suit due to your lack of ambition.
>>541690547sorry but why commies always do the same? i mean, you’re the ones spouting your bullshit, so (you) should be the ones winning the argument—but since you don’t have a single fucking argument here worth a damn, you’re always asking general questions? Why the fuck are you asking anything to the blind ones? Show us the way, guide us... wasn't that the plan? "Look at UBI... humanity should follow this straight path..."— but explain to us why, for fuck's sake :DDD>>541690843>Because the only people willingly advocating for the idea are lazy socialistssee :D this anon is lost like me, show us the philanthropic commie way :D
>>541690547Free high speed lead injections for every socialist
>>541689113We don't want to pay niggers
>>541689113It would be much, much cheaper for the elites to just kill the underclass. So that is what they will do.
>>541689113>people with all the stuff will pay me to sit around and play vidya gamesWhy does anybody think this is realistic?They'd rather just kill us all, which is what they're doing.
>>541690547Because a better solution would be to increase wages and reduce the price of commodities so people work lessLess disruptive to the system and actually possible
>>541689674No, that's not an easy fix. They have pretty much nothing to do with one another.
>>541691295this is 100% more realistic than the UBI delusion.thing is, since commies(government and elites biggest cock suckers) are semi-illiterate and full of envy and shit, they get told that higher demand for their services is bad for them, and that they are special and deserve to get paid just for breathing :D and they love to believe it, rofl, while Plan A is always the same.... yea...right....philanthropy :)))) hahahahahttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKigv_jgeuc
>>541690843I think the biggest argument against a 40 hr work week is that industrial production methods and scale make it largely not actually necessary anymore.
>technological communismWe're all going to die, aren't we?
>>541689113Shill thread, suckstart a 12-gauge, glownigger mongoloid
>>541689113Yes, but not the way you are probably thinking of. Taxing peoples productivity is slavery. However there is another type of tax which is fair. Land value tax. UBI should be funded from land value tax.
>>541689113or what? lol
>>541690843At this point if you shill for 40 hours a week it's either because you're ignorant or you want to be a slave, because productivity is so high that people don't need to work that much. The reason they make people work 40 hours is because they hate the goyim having leisure, and they want them to spend their time working for subsistence. The fact is if people don't do anything AI will automate nearly everything and you will either be liquidated or be given more busywork to do. When the industrial revolution initially happened people were working 12-16 hour days 6 days a week. Just think about that for a moment, how is it possible that the transition to automation which increases productivity could lead to people working MORE, not less? And how is it today that with the progression of automation people are still working the same amount? One of the hurdles to increasing leisure are goyim such as yourself, those who identify with work and see it as some kind of virtue despite it historically being associated with slaves. Culture, art, science, philosophy, this all came from people who could afford not to work. Slaves on the other hand were busy doing menial labor.
>>541692179i don't have anything against a land value tax, but in yang's scenario it was a VAT. so it was a tax on consumption, not income. yang's premise isn't necessarily great, though, since he thinks you need to "pay for" UBI. in reality it's just a question of what your inflationary pressure tolerance level is, not an actual revenue problem.
>>541690843You can still work with UBI implemented. You actually would be paid more because you would get UBI in addition to the compensation paid for your voluntary labour and time.
>>541692179what land? your land, or others land? your king has 500,000 hectares tax free :D you can start there with your "tax tha land and give my UBI" movement
>>541692321tl;drget a job you lazy bum
>>541692333VAT is still an income tax, just delayed. Its also a highly regressive tax that punishes low income earners.
>>541689113You will need to be in the system to receive UBI, that is vaxxed.
>>541689113No need to push UBI, it will come eventually.Do not make a mistake though, it will be absolutely fucking terrible.It will be politically controlled, akin to minimum wage. It will have "responsibilities" attached, such as military draft for males, and participation for "communal projects" such as digging a ditch without pay and collecting trash, and rich obviously can opt out from receiving UBI and avoid the responsibilities. It will be BASIC, meaning it will be just enough to live comfortably in a rented pod eating bugs and drinking rainwater, as long as you are healthy because UBI will replace any and all other benefits. And of course the prime purpose of UBI is to make rich richer, so you will not really ever even receive UBI before it will be drained from your account.
>>541694999i agree with you
>>541689113Fuck Basic, I whant to be in Universal Extended Income Club.
>>541689113take all the baby gibs and health gibs niggers and retards get and re-work it until ubi that goes to everyone and say "the rest is your responsibility" then let them fucking starve and die to retarded shit
>>541689594>high trust societyThis is a spook
>>541689113UBI? No, I'm straight, hard working and married with children. imagine being a lazy bitch expecting a handout from the workers...
>>541689113UBI can't work because it turns money into arbitrary tokens detached from supply and demand. It destroys the ability of firms to engage in rational economic calculations and turns careful planning into mere guesswork. UBI would impoverish the poor like no program by any totalitarian regime in history has ever accomplished before.https://cdn.mises.org/Economic%20Calculation%20in%20the%20Socialist%20Commonwealth_Vol_2_3.pdf
>>541689204>No such thing as free energy in this world.solar-powered AI robots
>>541696758>UBI can't work because it turns money into arbitrary tokens detached from supply and demand. It destroys the ability of firms to engage in rational economic calculations and turns careful planning into mere guesswork.But isn't that already the current state of the economy?
>>541696758A couple of basic problems here. 1) you're starting from the assumption that the market is rational and 2) you're also clearly assuming that firms can create enough demand on their own (they can't -- that they are a currency user, not an issuer, and the profit motive together mean that they can never create enough demand on their own).There are good arguments against UBI, but yours isn't one of them.
>>541696997Yeah, he is retarded or hasn't been paying attention. The entire stock market is fake, maybe it used to corelate with something real but algorithmic trading and media decay have destroyed that it is a pure simulation of an economy that doesn't exist.
>>541689113>We as a species haveLet me guess, you're going to be the "we" that gets free shit and some other asshole is going to be the "we" who produces and delivers your free shit to you?
>>541691744>this is 100% more realistic than the UBI delusion.I think the most realistic scenario is that the elites decide they no longer need us, try to exterminate the poor, and fail because it wouldn't be any more efficient than any other government program. DMV + Skynet does not make Skynet more deadly. They'd get a couple big massacres in before resistance would start to form, and it'd only be a few years before the resistance would get technological superiority over the former political class, since the political class would still be the same bureaucratic shitshow it is today, but without the occasional competent person holding it all together.>>541696997>But isn't that already the current state of the economy?Not exactly, in the US for instance the stock market goes up when there is an announcement of bad economic news because wall street knows that the federal reserve will lower interest rates to try to stimulate the economy. Price signals do sort of exist in the current economy, they're just completely fucked up and frequently backwards from what they should be. In a fully automated production AI judge Dredd economy people would use their allotment of UBI tokens to buy from the automated shops or whatever, and then trade those on a black market of commodities where some particularly marketable commodity would turn into money in the same way gold did in the ancient world.>>541697318>A couple of basic problems here.I did gloss over a lot. I included a link to Economic Calculation in the Socialist Commonwealth so that you could fill in any gaps yourself if you were interested.>you're starting from the assumption that the market is rationalSo you're saying that since you've already basically ruined the economy, it's fine to completely destroy it?>you're also clearly assuming that firms can create enough demand on their own Oh Jesus fuck, you're an actual Keynesian aren't you?
>>541689113This shouldn't be a political issue. Simply do the math. It is CHEAPER to give EVERY ADULT $1000 in the USA every single month, than to continue the current welfare programs.UBI is cheaper than the gibs systems we have in place, it's easier to implement (no fraud checks necessary if everyone gets a check) and eliminates all of the gibs-incentive scams. Niggers and darkies will no longer have any advantage or incentive to pop out extra kids either.
>>541697345I get how the TV and the government would make you think otherwise, but the stock market isn't the economy, it's just the stock market. The economy is all the resources being used everywhere. The stock market is only the part of the economy that has to do with trading shares in companies, and the fact that it matters at all to the average person is only a result of literally all other forms of saving money having been made impossible by inflation. When it comes to deciding how much steel to make, the amount people will pay for it and the amount that you have to pay for ore and other higher order goods still matters.
>>541694999I don't think it will come. Western society is collapsing. The future of the west will look more like Africa rather than some dystopia
>>541697485The private sector literally cannot create enough demand on its own for the output it is capable of producing. How is this even controversial at this point?
>>541697822>The future of the west will look more like Africa rather than some dystopiaI hope my part of the west looks more like Somalia in the 90s than Eritrea or the Congo.
>>541697508>This shouldn't be a political issue. Simply do the math. It is CHEAPER to give EVERY ADULT $1000 in the USA every single month, than to continue the current welfare programs.I don't think this is true at all unless you're including Medicare/Medicaid/Social Security into the calculations.
>>541697935>Why yes, I am a Keynesian, how did you guess?When production exceeds demand then it's an indication of misallocation of resources and a symptom of a bubble which will lead to a recession. In a free market production would be cut and their profits would be invested in improvements to their products. I get that you're too stupid to understand that the supply side of economics is also subject to market forces, but rest assured that people who can breath through their noses have this all figured out.
>>541697719Supply and demand theory still goes out the window when business realize they can make more money by gaming the stock market. Think ghost jobs or shadow debt. Reality is that the real economy is being cannibalized to feed the simulated economy.Also supply and demand makes a lot of idealized assumptions like a rational market which the market is not. And not every product has a perfect supply and demand curve. Food, healthcare, and basic necessities for example will always have demand at any price because the price people are willing to pay to continue living is essentially infinite.Supply and demand really only applies to "wants" and public spending and government controlled things operate on completely different incentives.
In a sane world where obtaining a citizenship is very hard and the ubi is only for citizens, this is the perfect solution seeing every country is already making sure people don't freeze or starve either way. But many gibs rely on the receiver not doing _anything_ at all to make their situation even 1% better. Ubi could mean people get by economic depression times and crisis, which are just normal life nowadays, and they can study or try running a micro company without losing gibs and going to prison.The dystopian ubi would involve it being distributed by EU or UN or whatever similar organization and if you don't take your monthly vaxx or if you say we have enough immigrants on your social media account, your ubi will be cut -50% and you suffer.
>>541698119What's the improvement they are going to make to canned beans?
>>541689113Nah. Kill all browns. Make it illegal to hire women. Make it so women can only get ANY kind of government aid if they are married and have at least two biological children with their spouse at the time of conception.Done. Work force is cut in half, higher education funding is cut in half, population growth established, crime rate brought down to utopian levels, anthrocentric extinction event and climate change solved.That's the real major topic points.
>>541690843People who do automation, the very people who developed capitalism, are being punished. I wasn't born for this stupid grind. I get shit done and then get more work? My work is measured in hours. Fucking depressing. You have to be a retarded midwit caveman to argue against this.
The only reasonable argument people have against ubi is that "no one should receive gibs for free" and in real life people have constantly received gibs for free for decades in every country where there's electricity and water comes from faucet. It's usually just that "you receive gibs but if you do something then gibs go away" and this creates insane situations where you should hold onto gibs because at least that is stable income.t. >>541698176
>>541690547If people aren't suffering or exploited americans aren't happy
>>541689113People always pretend like UBI would mean everyones rich. This is of course retarded, everyone would live in relative poverty to todays standard and only those sucking sufficient dick on the elites would break out.Take a look at qatar, they basicly have ubi but its so people dont riot. most people just get by
>>541689113get a job and work for a living like everyone else, commie leech parasite faggot
>>541698146>Supply and demand theory still goes out the window when business realize they can make more money by gaming the stock market. Think ghost jobs or shadow debt. Reality is that the real economy is being cannibalized to feed the simulated economy.Indeed, which is why we need to at the very least understand how this would work on a truly free market before we propose solutions, since how else would you know if your proposed solution is better than doing nothing at all? You have accurately explained how this works on the current, heavily regulated market, and it's not good.>Also supply and demand makes a lot of idealized assumptions like a rational market which the market is not.Austrian economists do not make these assumptions.>And not every product has a perfect supply and demand curve.Austrians have been pointing out that supply and demand curves are bullshit since they were invented.>Food, healthcare, and basic necessities for example will always have demand at any price because the price people are willing to pay to continue living is essentially infinite.Yes, and Austrians have a much better model for how supply and demand form prices based around an ordered hierarchy of wants.>>541698188Why would you need to improve baked beans? Production would simply meet demand and the producers of canned beans would not be ramping up production further. The scarce resources in the economy which would go to producing more beans under the Keynesian scheme of ever increasing production would instead go to more urgently needed things. There might be improvements to canned bean production which would allow production costs to be lowered, but the beans would not be improved much.
>>541698545I seriously hope people don't think ubi means that the elites now distribute their trillions to normal people but rather you get some money to get by, like you do in every country nowadays if you can't or don't want to work, but compared to current system, any work or study or running a micro company would benefit you and not take away gibs.
>>541696758>turns money into arbitrary tokensThis is literally already the case, but it doesn't detach it from supply and demand because the govt can't just print as much tokens as it wants. The reason why we don't see hyperinflation, and this is something austrians don't get, is because so long as the supply of money doesn't wildly outgrow it's demand, then there won't be giga inflation. Btw this is necessary in order to even run the modern world, hard currencies could never create the kind of economic growth that we've seen because they're constrained by supply. Some kind of social dividend is going to be necessary when automation makes most labor obsolete, which, despite whatever copes people may have, will happen, automation is only going to get better and free energy technology is real. Unless civilization collapses or people return to more "primitive" economies something has to happen. Either the elite liquidate the "useless eaters" or you get this >>541694999 or they somehow make more fake and gay jobs (nearly impossible), OR the fruit of automation is distributed to the people through some social dividend or decentralization of energy infastructure and AI technology allowing people to live self-sufficiently. We're already at the point of post-scarcity, a lot of jobs are fake and gay, they exist only to keep people busy.
>>541698876this is not to mention that in a world where most things are automated the means to distribute resources is going to have to be different. Capitalist economics works when resources are scarce, they don't work if AI and machines can do almost anything and if energy is practically unlimited.
>>541697822>Western society is collapsing.You don't think that is more a reason why they will implement it? Previous system worked until now because there was some trust that most of people would not abuse the system, which obviously is now going away because they brought in shitskins. UBI does not require such trust but will theoretically keep the serfs from rebelling due complete lack of money and jobs. >The future of the west will look more like Africa rather than some dystopiaI don't really think that. The West has too entreched elite class that it would allow freeform warlording akin to african shitholes.
The UK basically had UBI in the 60s and 70s. You could just sign on the dole, it was barely means tested, you just had to prove you had no money. And a lot of people lived relatively comfortable lives on it.
>>541689925Have you lived through the plandemic at all?Two thirds to three quarters of le global economy was on lock down and fuck all collapsed.60% to 75% of all jobs were superfluous even back then.The bar is most likely even higher nowadays.>muh industrious >muh entrepreneurial
>>541698664>scarce resourcesThis is I think a fundamental part of the problem with you. For most basic consumer goods, resources are in fact not scarce. I think maybe a root cause of this is the wishcasting that Austrian adherents like to do to pretend that money is limited, like it used to be on their precious little gold standard where they could choke off anybody they wanted and pull shit like the Great Depression. It's very obvious right wingers desperately want to go back to that, but the elastic money supply really jams things up for them. So they increasingly just resort to wars to literally blow productive assets up so they can rent seek on commodities.
Doesn't work. I have spent 8 years going through it, I get told to go all over the place and my life has not improved at all. I have changed multiple industries and still cannot afford anything I need. I can barely do the jobs I have been given never mind an actual life of my own. It's a trap to turn people into slaves and probably slowly lower their standards of lives and make the weaker and more docile until the end of humanity. No actual incentive to improve or change things as everyone gets the benefit but your life gets worse or doesn't improve. Yeah, some people will need it but it doesn't make anyone want to strive for more. The harder you work, the more work you will be given and you'll always been trapped at your income level.
>>541698876>This is literally already the caseNo. While price signals are extremely degraded in their utility, they aren't completely unmoored from reality like they would become in the case of UBI.>The reason why we don't see hyperinflation, and this is something austrians don't get, is because so long as the supply of money doesn't wildly outgrow it's demand,Money isn't subject to supply and demand like other commodities you fuckwit. If there is less money then prices just fall. The reason we haven't seen hyperinflation *yet* is because people still have confidence that money will continue to hold its value well enough that they can hold onto it for a bit before using it. The crack up boom will happen when people no longer want to hold money and instead want to get rid of it while it still holds *some* value.>Btw this is necessary in order to even run the modern world, hard currencies could never create the kind of economic growth that we've seenOh fuck off Maynard. The fastest period of economic growth in history was in a hard money economy.>>541699160Holy fuck, you're so goddamn stupid. I can't talk down to your level because that'd require drilling through a mile of bedrock.
>>541699060The elites are not themselves powerful, their power comes from the society they rule over. If the society becomes totally dysfunctional and ruined, the elites loose their power. The elites doing nothing to prevent total societal destruction, so they are weakening themselves in the long run, because they are retarded.
>>541690112LMAOOkWouldn't it be funny if it were so...
>>541699385The reason we haven't seen hyperinflation is because there is too much production for it to occur.
>>541689113Or you could just stop importing slave labor
Imagine all the musical instruments you can learn if UBI was 1 million USD per day!! I would do two sports maybe a bit of MMA. Let's do this Yang gang!!!
>>541699641Maybe a lil bit o vidya too hehe
>>541694999>collecting trashI do that for free even nowadays.
>>541699061That's not ubi in the way I perceive it. By that criteria we have ubi in finland too and have had as long as I have lived. You have to prove you have no income, no saving, no ownings, nothing. If you start generating income from any source, no matter how micro, then you suffer unless you jumped straight to full time job. If you were stupid enough to start a micro company which might take 1-2 years to really generate you any meaningful income, then you receive basically zero gibs.Any incentive, even a small one, towards or away from some activity always plays into how people behave.
>>541699160> Austrian adherents like to do to pretend that money is limitedYeah this is something austrians don't get, money is not the limit, the limit is the actual productive capacity of the economy. Because states have a monopoly on violence they can create demand for their currency. Money is a ticket, an instrument that's used to distribute goods and services, it doesn't need to have actual value, in fact, if it has actual value that would mean you would be constrained by it's supply.>>541699385>hyperinflation *yet* is because people still have confidence that money will continue to hold its value well enough that they can hold onto it for a bit before using it. Money doesn't hold value by mere belief, it has value because of demand created by a sovereign state. The USD has value for example because US citizens have to pay taxes in USD and also the fact that the US is the world superpower (probably won't be in the near future though) that controls trade and can bully anyone into using USD. >The fastest period of economic growth in history was in a hard money economy.Proof? Even if this were the case it really has nothing to do with hard money and has everything to do with technology. Does gold build roads, factories, machines, etc., all the things that produce actual wealth? And what happens when all that actual wealth vastly outstrips the supply of your hard currency? The notion that you could just keep growing the economy while constraining the supply of money is laughable. The population grows, people capital for businesses, they need to pay wages to employees, and how are they going to do that with money that doesn't exist? If the economy grows, and there's more demand for money, it becomes an asset to hoard. The increase in purchasing power comes not from increases in productivity, but the fact there's an unmet demand thus turning money into an investment instead of a lubricant for the economy. And what happens to all the borrowers?
>>541700632>it has value because of demand created by a sovereign state.Kek, you're a fucking MMTer. Well I'm sure life is hard enough for you as it is, I won't bully you further.
>>541700717MMT reflects reality, it's a description of how economies actually work today. Austrianism only reflects the fantasies and imagination of jewish thinkers and goldbugs.
>>541700885>description of how economies actually work todayIn addition to how they worked historically, forgot to add that. Austrian economics exists in the imagination of jewish economic prophets (very similar to marxism actually), instead of empirical reality. Both the free market and currencies have almost always been connected to states, they do not exist in a vacuum, you cannot just abstract it out.
>>541701140When you put them under oath, they just admit it.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNCZHAQnfGU
>>541699641>>541699714I do wonder why Yang didn't get so much support back then. He was giving American people an offer to a dignified existence
>>541689113Guys are supposed to solve that
>>541701449>Greenspan is an AustrianEven if he was saying what you think he's saying, you'd still be wrong because Greenspan wasn't an Austrian. He published like one article in favor of the gold standard early in his career. It was admittedly a pretty good article. He spent the entire rest of his career pretending he never wrote it, including when Ron Paul brought a physical copy of it to him and asked if he'd sign it.
>>541689224as always only absolute and total retards think that ubi is achievable
>>541689113There's never going to be UBI. We tried babby's first UBI with the stimmy checks and handouts during the pandemic and it immediately wrecked the economy far worse than even the most ardent UBI opponents expected. Years later and we are still dealing with the high prices and inflation caused by a few months of minimal UBI.It's far more likely that the elites and/or advanced AI will genetically engineer a disease to cull the useless eaters and most of humanity.
>>541701719>People did not buy the Chinese spy's deception.
>>541689113the "universal basic income" used to be men paying for all the shit for women & children.it's pointless to just give people money they are going to spend on drugs.
>>541690843>lazy socialists who just want to find any excuse to not have to work a 40hr/wk jobThe funniest thing is that none of the glorious communist utopias and worker's paradises of the past, like the USSR, just gave people money or let them lounge around not working.Being unemployed was literally a crime called "social parasitism." If you didn't have a job, they would send you to a gulag. They also didn't just give you UBI style handouts or make everything free. Everyone under communism still has to work to earn money to use to buy things in stores. The primary difference between capitalism and communism is that under communism the prices and wages and production quotas are all determined by a government bureaucrats in a central planning committee rather than by the free market.For some reason, leftists believe that this will somehow magically and inevitably transform into some kind of post-scarcity utopia where everything is free and no one has to do any work, but none of them have ever provided an explanation for exactly why or how this is supposed to happen. Even Marx was basically like "Look at all of these problems with capitalism. The workers should seize the means of production, and everything will be great, just trust me bro."
>>541701449Unfortunately the goyim don't understand how money actually works. Austrian economics is probably controlled opposition to keep people thinking that money is some scarce resource so they can continue printing money for themselves instead of printing enough money for productive ends and to meet consumer demand. Even if they switched to hard money (which would crash the economy), they control the gold supply. They could create artificial scarcity and buy up a bunch of assets as collateral when people need to pay off their debt somehow. Or they could engage in fractional reserve banking and inflate the money supply to again just buy up all the assets. What they absolutely don't want is a government that prints money with the principle that the economy exists to meet the demand of the people, and it exists so that a people remain sovereign. This means it pays for production, it makes up any difference where there's not enough money to meet consumer demand through a social dividend. The point of an economy isn't financial profit nor work, so produce only to deliver goods and services that people demand, make it efficient, so efficient that labor basically becomes obsolete. They hate this of course, they want a bunch of slaves, unfortunately a lot of people WANT to be slaves, they don't even question why they work 40 hours a week, why they hasn't changed since 1940 despite the increases in productivity. Instead they'll shame you for being lazy if you suggest there's a different way of doing things, they really created the perfect golem, these goyim WANT to be slaves, they compete for who can sleep the least and do the most work.
>>541702341>>541702433The biggest disbalance of paying ubi for every citizen would be that already well off people could just put the ~1000€/$ in stonks without needing it, same as child benefits currently in some countries.For people who just pay rent and spend the rest on drugs, nothing would change at all.For people who are still trying to figure out what they would like to do or try, ubi would allow them to do even one day per week of _some_ work without fearing that someone knows about it and reduces the gibs.
absolute necessity and they better get to it soon67% of the U.S. economy is spending - the value of the dollar is already so low, AI taking jobs, most working people are underemployed and the cost-of-living issue keeps getting worse with the money men using algorithms to rig housing prices and everything elsespending slows down and the economy contracts - it is in the interests of everyone that the average person have money to spend and if jobs won't pay enough or are even available the money has to be UBI to cover basic needsoh and free healthcare is a must to drive down costs - if it is single-payer the profiteering can be clipped
>>541703429>For people who just pay rent and spend the rest on drugs, nothing would change at all.During covid, all the niggers and potheads who got stimulus checks because they weren't working just spent them on cruises and vacations and PS5s and other frivolous unnecessary shit. It accomplished absolutely nothing other than massive inflation from dumping a lot of money into the economy without a corresponding increase in productivity.>For people who are still trying to figure out what they would like to do or try, You are obviously just some dumbass kid who is still under the mistaken impression that work is supposed to be some kind of fulfilling or enjoyable activity. It's not. People work to make money because nothing in life is free. If work was fun or enjoyable or fulfilling, no one would need to pay people to do it.The only thing you need to figure out is what job is the most efficient way for you to make money.>ubi would allow them to do even one day per week of _some_ work without fearing that someone knows about it and reduces the gibs.If someone is able bodied enough to work, why the fuck should they get any gibs in the first place? Go get a job and earn your own money instead of expecting a handout so you can work one day a week and then fuck off the rest of the time.
>>541690843Now that's a good goy!
>>541704648I understand this is different in north america compared to europe, but here it's a normal day that you receive full gibs + extra gibs for extra needs like you need a new washing machine or whatever, but only on condition that you won't do shit.It's the sole role reason why more people aren't trying to have even micro companies on their name and at least slowly doing something, anything. The only two viable choices out of being super successful are laying on your back or having a full time job.Obviously at least in european context, if every citizen was paid ubi then the taxing would have to adjust in a way that it's +-0 for people earning common wage and/or if you want a lower tax then you can check a box on tax website that you don't wish to receive the ubi for now.
>>541704648And yes the only two justified solutions are 1) no one receives any gibs under any circumstance or 2) ubi. But 1 will never happen so someone shovels money to niggers and druggies anyway. I bet even in africa they pay some sort of gibs to people who don't work just to keep relative peace conditions.
>>541704648>If someone is able bodied enough to work, why the fuck should they get any gibs in the first place?It's not a matter of should, with more and better automation it will be a necessity unless you wish to be liquidated as a useless eater or kept at bare subsistence with enough distractions to not realize the scam when the people who own automation technology replace you. During covid, it was proved a lot of jobs are pointless busywork, which means the productive capacity already exists for people to have much more leisure than they do, and of course that would be the case. Why wouldn't it be the case when the 40 hours work week was something set in early to mid 1900s, do you think productivity increased or decreased since that time? If it increased, why haven't hours decreased? The only purpose of the economy is (besides sovereignty) to meet the demand of the populace through the production distribution of goods and services. This is what tards like you don't get, if we already have the capacity to meet the demand of the people, absolutely nothing is accomplished by making people work more except to make them feel like there's scarcity where there isn't. And if productivity increases then jobs WILL be lost, there will literally not be work unless you make it up. Not only that, but for the jobs we still need, hours would certainly decrease. The problem is that if there's a bunch of people who lost their jobs, now they're all competing for the jobs that are left. All this has already happened, is happening, and will continue happening. They make up for the jobs lost by creating fake and gay jobs, they demand you work 8 hours when you can complete it in 4, because the rest of those 4 hours is siphoned from you since they hold the leverage when everyone is competing for those jobs.
>>541689113Why not ULI. Universal Luxury Income sounds a lot less Jewish than your version barely letting people have basic needs. Everybody should have lots of stuff you gay retard. >If it works for one, why doesn't it work for the other.
>>541705900The solution is simple, make up any difference between the costs of goods and services and consumer income with a social dividend. Invest into domestic industry with the goal of improving automation so that production becomes more efficient. It gets more efficient, people's social dividend has more purchasing power, they can afford to have more leisure, the few remaining jobs aren't heavily competed for because people aren't so desperate for work in order to live, thus whatever work remains will get fair hours and wages.
>>541705489>but only on condition that you won't do shit.That makes absolutely zero sense. In the US, all of the handouts and gibs are based on income (or lack thereof). For example, to get Section 8 housing, you have to show that your income is below a certain percentage of the local median income.And if someone is receiving unemployment payments, they often have to provide some kind of proof that they are applying for jobs and actively trying to get work instead of just sitting on their ass doing nothing all day.We haven't had straight up direct, unlimited welfare payments in the US since some time in the '90s under Clinton. The closest things we still have are SNAP/EBT/WIC which gives money but it's only allowed to be used for food, and EITC which is a low income tax refund credit thing where low income people end up getting more money back than they paid in for income taxes.
>>541706264There's a cultural difference and I'm druk posting but yes, that exactly was the point that having to proof (or cheat) that you don't own or earn anything to get the gibs is the trap. You only get full gibs by not doing or owning shit so if you get in hard place but try to improve your situation in any way, you lose gibs. Fully immoral system even if it probably started organically at first.
>>541689113I wouldn't work if I could just live off UBI, even if it meant being poor.
>>541689113Could happen considering how fake the economy and labour is...honestly I think out of the world's population, only about a half of percent of jobs probably aid that the cigs that make the wheels of the world turn and bring about everything substance that we use, but if does come around, it won't be announced, you will just fall into it. There will be no coming collapse, we are already in the collapse. It's not a stock market crash or an overnight riot, it is a slow, agonising vaporisation of meaning. Governments that can't define the objective differences between men and women. A government staff with people with no consequences grindr accounts. The first world is owned, your countries and power are occupied. Your children belong to the state. Your wife is one dopamine hit away from becoming an amateur pornstar. Half of all adults addicted to pills, the other half addicted to vices that should belong to mentally retarded children. No music, no children, no architecture, no art, no future, no nothing.
>>541689113What pays for UBI and dont say taxing the rich. They can hide there money. It has to come from somewhere. Show the numbers.
>>541705900Yeah except we don't live in some kind of post-scarcity society where there is such an abundance that we can meet everyone's needs and don't need anyone to work anymore.We also have companies wanting to import foreigners on work visas and complaining that they can't find anyone to do the work, at the same time there are millions of unemployed, able bodied prime working age actual Americans living off of handouts and gibs.We have people insisting that the population and number of workers must constantly increase forever to support the social safety net and fund things like Social Security, at the same time that technology and automation and increasing efficiency is rapidly increasing the need for human workers. Those two things are clearly incompatible.
>>541706504>there moneyYour iq is showing.
>>541706429Which is the situation in most of the west but on condition you promise to be poor. You'll be handed at least some gibs if you promise to not earn or own anything.In finland it's even more perverse than in mediterrian countries; here you get paid more gibs for living alone but if you live with someone then you might get fucked. Couples with children often separate or play-separate if one of them doesn't work just to get more gibs. If you don't do so, you are considered fucking stupid.
>>541697935If this was true, prices would be plummeting.
