>>541804177
Because how do you determine what something is worth in a world ran by communism?

>>541804177
get a job.

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>>541804177
You don't need to imagine there are plenty of examples of countries without capitalism and they are all living hell where people have to eat pets to survive.

>>541804251
Capitalism judges things to be worthwhile to the ends that they are profitable and nothing else. This is fundamentally anti-human, what do you think about that?

>>541804177
>Why can't Americans imagine a future without capitalism?
Cause they've seen the horrors of communism and its consequences.

>>541804177
They do, it’s called “MAGA”.

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>>541804177

>>541804177
What's your plan to motivate enough people to become engineers, medics, and all the high risk trades that require a baseline of supply to keep society from collapsing, while giving them nearly the same material goods as a janitor?
Communism could only work if AGI becomes a thing, and even so, we all know that kikes will implement Communism for them, while keeping all the goys in check as pet slaves, because they are demons.

>>541805178
I am not strictly a communist. However I believe that anyone no matter their occupation should at the very least be able to purchase a home, food, and other basic necessities on just a single salary and a 30-40 hour work week, so people can enjoy being human. Capitalism pushes for efficiency in the service of profit for profits sake and reduces humans to machines anything not devoted to making profit is bad.

>>541804658
I think that's stupid in a world where goods and services are limited by scarcity.

>>541804177
it's a religion anon, it dominates text books and is repeated daily as a mantra, communism bad, capitalism good, this is why they hate Marx - he told them capital will have it's time in the sun they be replaced

>>541805699
I disagree that all things are scace. Food for instance is abundant the entire world produces enough food for about 10 billion people while using the labor of only a tiny fraction of the population thanks to modern mechanized farming.

>>541805486
>However I believe that anyone no matter their occupation should at the very least be able to purchase a home, food, and other basic necessities on just a single salary and a 30-40 hour work week
I agree, and that was achievable under capitalism (ask any boomer) until kikes influence and boomers selfishness ruined it for all. The issue is not the system, but the bad actors. No system is kike proof. Under communism you will have the exactly same bad actors sitting at the top.
Companies and billionaires controlling the government with blackmail and bribe tactics is not capitalism. In fact, under Capitalism government is the middleman that prevents corporations from becoming monopolies and billionaires from doing stuff that is against the interests of the citizens for their own profit.

>>541805980
They ruined it by reducing state interventions and regulations.

>>541805897
>Food isn't scarce
This is beyond retarded but even if we play by your stupid fucking thoight process how do you determine which foods to make? You do realize not all foods can be cultivated in the same places or at the same times right?

>>541804177
No need to imagine with so many real world examples.

>>541806040
Food is abundant.
So are stupid lazy niggers.
Welcome to the world kiddo.

>>541804177
You would put a bunch of dei niggers in charge of government spending and give them even more money than they already have?

>>541805017
This is nigger tier bait. This faggot probably demanded people wear masks and stay 6 feet apart for safety. Marxists - including nazis - are weak pussies who have not and can not create anything of value.

>>541804658
Commies never explain why communism is good, only why the things they dont like are capitalism and why they're bad.

>>541804177
They can though, the only ones not able to imagine real alternatives to capitalism are ironically the communists who desperately kerp trying to resuscitate the malformed creation that collapsed under its own weight.

Offer a real alternative and people may be interested, retreading the road to just another flavor of yet swifter failure appeals to no thinking person.

>>541804177
Capitalists said that the economy is our destiny in the same way that Marx said that history is a class struggle. It's the same worldview just withe opposite orientation. We've landed on futuristic nostalgia because we want to escape the present and don't know which direction to run.

https://astrallibrary.com/quest-of-the-holy-grail/tradition-the-modern-world/evolas-orientations-eleven-points

>>541804177
because literally every place that has tried this without a 90% white population has failed miserably, why do we have to discuss this every fucking day lmao dont you have basic pattern recognition?

>>541805980
>I agree, and that was achievable under capitalism (ask any boomer)
America was more socialist before Nixon.

>The issue is not the system, but the bad actors.
A system can be designed to mitigate the effects of bad actors. Banning stock trading for congress members is one such mechanism.

>>541806088
If food were abundant then why are there starving people? Usually in socialist countries?

>>541805980
My country tried and gave reinstaured the republican democracy, this like going back 2000 years in the past. Baboeuf was the tehorician of communism. I'll tell you there is no better system than absolute monarchy and you can't except people to play fair if they reject Jesus Christ.

>>541804251
We did that before capitalism..

>>541805017
he just blames capitalism for everything bad in society. its either bad faith or ignorance. i doubt this bozo could explain why housing or healthcare is so expensive. he can't honestly think authoritarianism is uniquely the result of a capitistal economy.

>>541805486
Nice thought, but thats like saying you dont think disease should exist.
The world works the way it does by natural processes and we do the best we can to live within it.
All of the things you call rights take effort to produce.
Society takes effort to maintain.
You can believe that unskilled labor should be enough to provide a certain living standard, but that doesnt make it true.
Its only true if the people who produce food and housing are willing to trade them for whatever you produce.
The fact that you socialists never want to admit is that the reason you cant afford the lifestyle you want is because you dont do anything that is of equal value to trade.
So you demand it be subsidized through the government which they can only do through violence and theft.
At your core you are nothing more than thieves.
All of your moralistic bulkshit about exploitation and "tha billyunares" is just cope to justify being useless fucks.
Fuck you.
Work for your meals like the rest of us.
If you dont have a nice house its because you dont deserve one.
Fite me faggot.

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>>541804177
Because any Asian dump existing on Western money is capitalist... including China, Korea, Japan, and so on... stop screwing with people's heads with your fake communism.

>>541805897
Everything is scarce idiot.
It takes effort to make food, it doesnt just happen.
If you want to life for free, go live in the woods and eat what you find.
Otherwise, the people who made the food you eat deserve to be compensated.
You apply your bullshit morals to yourself, demanding you deserve a "fair" compensation for your labor, but you do so by demanding EVERYONE else receive unfair compensation to subsidize you.
You people are the absolute fucking worst.

>>541806740
Communism is culling the most competent people of your country because you are mediocre and against the accumulation of capital by work.

>>541806678
>The fact that you socialists never want to admit is that the reason you cant afford the lifestyle you want is because you dont do anything that is of equal value to trade.
I work full-time and am studying mechanical engineering I will graduate sometime in the next 2 years.

I'm not even making a moral argument and your whole post realy shows that you can't even let yourself imagine some other system.
>The world works the way it does by natural processes and we do the best we can to live within it.
You've just accepted without a second thought that capitalism is natural and we just have to live with it. Why did you allow your imagination to be colonized?

>>541806443
>America was more socialist before Nixon.
Whats your point even here? You can have socialist policies under a capitalism system, its not exclusive.
>A system can be designed to mitigate the effects of bad actors.
You cant. Its like saying you can make a hacker proof system, its idiotic nonsense. Its impossible, because you are not fighting 1 person, nor a couple, you are fighting millions of them, with the objective of subvert your system for their own good.

>>541806088
>food is abundant
What does this mean to you?
Presumably you believe food should be free, so does that mean the farmers do not deserve to be paid?
In that case, why the fuck would anyone be a farmer?
If nobody wants to grow food, where will the food come from?

>>541805017
These things only happen because of the socialists who enabled them to happen.
Because we didn't go far enough with the "ReD ScArE" when we had the chance.

>>541806940
Don't tell them that the first time the term "social policies" was used it was in the mouth of Louis XVI.

>>541804177
14 shekels a post isn't a lviing wage. Get a job, kike.

>>541806823
People can only eat so much food and the effort required to make food is very little compared to the output. There is a limited demand and we have the productive capacity to very very easily make the supply. Farming in the U.S literally needs to be subsidized to remain profitable.

>>541804177
China is more capitalist than the US at this point. The US is basically a socialist state already with the government buying stocks in private corporations.

>>541804177
Because from afar they’ve witnessed a past and present with socialism

>>541804177
cattle

>>541807064
>socialism is when the government makes deals with private companies
so this is the power of the /pol/tard mind..

>>541804177
We can. The issue is the all the non-whites that are in here that ruin any system they are part of. Capitalism couldn't make them more White and i doubt communism would either.

>>541806489
>I'll tell you there is no better system than absolute monarchy and you can't except people to play fair if they reject Jesus Christ.
Well, with absolute monarchy you have the odds of living on a golden era under an exceptional leader, or under the next Caligula. Still better odds than living under kikes tbf.
Capitalism on its core is a system where if you work, no matter which work, you can have a house, food and education as a baseline, and thats its how it used to be until kikes decided to fuck us all, and boomers decided to let them burn the ladder. The same boomers and kikes that amassed their fortune during the golden era of capitalism, are the ones that pushed for all the bullshit laws and regulations that prevents anyone from getting shit by working.

We can. We just don't want the next system to be Gay Race Communism

>>541806934
>You've just accepted without a second thought that capitalism is natural and we just have to live with it. Why did you allow your imagination to be colonized?
Because it is jackass.
Good for you for studying engineering, you will have a skillset that makes you able to afford a decent lifestyle.
If you then choose to give your labor away for free like an idiot, then good for you.

As an aspiring engineer, you should understand the concept of entropy.
Existing requires effort.
If you are not able to put in the effort required to sustain your life then you will die.
Having a higher standard of living requires more effort.
This isnt complicated.
I can "imagine" lots of other systems and they are all evil.
If people receive more than they produce, somebody else must provide for them.
And "the government" isnt an answer because government doesnt produce anything.
The only thing the government can do is redistribute things from people who earned them to people who didn't.
>muh capitalists, muh exploitation.
An outright communist lie.
If it was easy to extract value without providing anything in exchange then you would just do it so fuck off
>muh inheritance
Statistics show that most wealth is not generational.
Socialism requires tyranny to implement and maintain and it institutionalizes Injustice through redistribution.
You rationalize it by demonizing anyone more successful than you to justify robbing them.
You are no different than a nigger who robs white people because of historical slavery.
You are evil.

>>541806562
We did? When did this happen? Goods have always been determined to have some worth.>>541806562

>>541807063
>food is very easy to make so it should be free.
Go tell a farmer this and see if they beat the shit out of you.

Frankly, if you think farming is so easy and the farmers make so much more than they deserve, why dont you just go become a farmer Instead of being a useless broke commu ist?

>>541807509
As an aspiring engineer I understand optimization. If society is a machine every single thing about it is optimized for profit. But profit to what end? The people at the top are getting richer and richer while we keep getting poorer. Society is a collective project which we all participate in, so why is it optimized only to bring the greatest benefit to those at the very top?

Why does this machine we built not serve humanity as a whole? That would be preferable to basically everyone.

>>541804177
Reminder that under communism, you would still be required to go to work, and anyone who doesn't want to work is guilty of the crime of Social Parasitism.
You would still have to use money to pay for things, you would still have to pay rent, there would still be income inequality and people with connections still get paid 10x more than the manual laborers in the minimum wage pay band.
Communism doesn't mean you don't need to work and everything is free and everyone shares everything and no one goes without.
The only real difference between capitalism and actual real world Communism is that under communism all of the prices and wages and production quotas are determined by bureaucrats in central government committees instead of the free market.
For some reason, every communist and communism supporter back toe Marx himself assumes that the workers seizing the means of production and giving the State full control of the economy and society it will somehow inevitably transform into a stateless post-scarcity utopia where there is an abundance of everything that everyone's life is perfect. But NONE of them have EVER provided any kind of coherent explanation for the mechanism or process that would cause this to happen. They just insist that REAL communism has never been tried.
Except it has, many many times. There have been many countries where the workers seized the means of production, the State had full control of the economy, with the entire stated purpose and goal of bringing about muh REAL communist utopia. And every single nation who tried it failed, and instead became a totalitarian dystopian shithole instead.

>>541807361
Communism is worse conceptually than capitalism but also any implementation in our physical world would be much worse than even the concept. There is 0 possibility that it would be anything but Gay Race Communism.

>>541807697
I didn't say it should be free I said it was abundant, which to me means there is no risk of demand ever exceeding supply.

>>541807849
Probably because the very things you fight for actually benefit a bery minute few. Or did you think corporations like walmart don't like getting sweet food stamp money?

>>541807659
Capitalism didnt appear until the end of the middle ages anon..

>>541807918
That is absolutely not true. You have to be a retard to not recognize there is only so much arable land and only so many foods that can cultivated on it. The soviets and chinese learned this the hard way. Maybe try learning from their mistakes and not a famine.

>>541808038
The concept of worth existed long before that. Societies still traded goods and services for a price determined by the market. Even before that items were traded according to their worth in relation to one another. You can't remove the concept of pricing from a system the way socialists want

>>541808111
I don't know why you want to die on this hill. Sure if the population quadrupled or if an Yellowstone erupts and blots out the sun for 100 years maybe it might start getting difficult to produce enough food and it would become scarce.

>>541808301
Care to explain why the world still experiences food shortages and famines then?

>>541808366
The logistical distribution and allocation isn't perfectly efficient, nor is it necessarily profitable to feed everyone. Which is why maximizing for profit is not necessarily always in humanity's best interest.

>>541805486
>However I believe that anyone no matter their occupation should at the very least be able to purchase a home, food, and other basic necessities on just a single salary and a 30-40 hour work week, so people can enjoy being human.
The vast vast majority of the population is able to achieve that fairly easily in the US and every other developed, western capitalist nation. Those nations are so prosperous and generous that provide a social safety net so that even the people who are too lazy or retarded or incompetent to get a good job can still get shelter, food and other necessities without working or doing anything to earn it.
Literally no one in America is actually starving, and all of the people who are long-term homeless in America are like that because they refuse to take advantage of the dozens of charities and other programs in every city and town actively trying to provide them with shelter and other assistance.
In any communist country that has ever existed, those people would have been far worse off. The ones just completely incapable of working or being a productive member of society would have ended up imprisoned in a gulag. The people only capable of working in lower tier manual labor jobs would be forced to work their asses off in horrific conditions to get shitty communal housing worse than the worst public housing projects in the West. Everyone above that would also be limited to a significantly lower quality of life than that experienced by their counterparts in the capitalist west.

>>541808674
Yet famines and shortages are much worse in planned economies. How is that possible?

>>541808236
Most people were subsistence farmers and traded based on need. They're taxes were in crop and livestock. Only after capitalism did people actively trade their excess goods to the market when their lords began demanding coin

>>541808746
probably something to do with what I said here >>541808674
I have said this once in the thread but I am not strictly a communist. I am not necessarily advocating for a planned economy. I just want you to question what the point and ultimate end goal of our current system is.

>>541807064
>China is more capitalist than the US at this point.
Not at all. If anything, modern "Communist" China is like NSDAP style National Socialism but based on Han Chinese supremacy instead of Aryan German supremacy.

>>541808877
A system that doesn't have any incentive for its workers to be productive is not going to be productive.

>>541804177
>copies Elon Musk a decade later and claims it as an example of the greatness of socialism

Corporate espionage is the only way socialist nations can ever "innovate." Commies are the most retarded people alive, below even niggers and jeets.

>>541808997
I agree. But do we really need trillionaires?

>>541808236
religious fanatic levels of retardation

>>541804658
But communism destroys everything it touches.
>inb4 "B-B-But China is an economic powerhouse!"
China isn't a Marxist country ran by Jews that want to enslave Orthodox Christians. They're actually closer to national socialists if anything, but they believe in a monetary system of their own.

>>541805017
TRVEKLEAR BOMBARDMENT

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>>541804177
COMMUNISM IS THE WORST

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>>541804177
CAPITALISM IS THE BEST

>>541809093
I would argue we don't "need" them, but why should I aspire to not be one? I agree with wealth redistribution insofar as everyone's wealth goes into my bank account. Does that make me a capitalist who wants everyone's money or a socialist looking for a handout?

>>541809581
You won't ever be a trillionaire or a billionaire. To think that we need the "economic freedom" for these people to amass so much wealth and power that they can undermine our own freedoms and well being because maybe you could be one one day is just a carrot on a stick.

>>541807282
We had few very good kings. It's more about the structure we lost. Corporations or work to begin with, the fact that the king was the lieutenant of Christ. It set the principles, men aren't perfect but it is better to live in a Christian society than in a society inspired by judeo-masonic values.
Also no one could get richer than the king which is limiting corruption. It's not a coincidence if we switched to the republic when Rostchilds fortune was more important than all kingdoms of Europe.

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>>541804177
If muslims had a space program

>>541809581
Adding on, Remember DOGE? Elon Musk kinda just invited himself into the government and started destroying departments and firing employees. No one elected him and he isn't even an American, it's just he had so much influence thanks to his absurd amout of wealth he could just sidestep our democracy. Whether or not you agree with what he did, it's unacceptable for any human to have that much power over government when he is not given the consent of the governed.

>>541804177
Why can't communists imagine a future with happy family structures that look exactly like communism but have fuck all to do with government?

>>541804177
Because without capitalism there is no future

Is it perfect? Hardly
But it's a hell of a lot better than communist shitholes

>>541811105
Winning

>>541809262
Bruh China was welding people inside their homes during covid to stop the spread

Fuck off with gargling China's cancer causing balls

>>541811105
>>541811186
Are you larping as a """Liberal"""?

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>>541807874
Marxism is unironically not real communism, and aside from the odd tankie nobody is aspiring towards marxism

>>541807849
This is a false premise and you know it.
Society isnt optimized for anything because it wasnt deliberately engineered, it evolved.
Profit is simply the manifestation of efficiency.
If we are both making bird houses and It takes me 4 hours to make one and only three for you, but they are of the same quality then you will be able to sell more of them and earn more than me.
The same logic holds if we take the same amount of time, but yours are higher quality than mine, meaning people are willing to pay more.
This is why the labor theory of value is moronic.

If wealth concentrates in the hands of a few this does not mean it is deprived from others because wealth is not finite.
Objective value doesnt exist, only subjective value.
And the notion of exploitation is also moronic.
Under capitalism, all transactions are by definition fair because they are all voluntary.
If you make a bad trade due to your own lack of judgement, you were not exploited, you are just a fool.
As an engineer you will need to understand the value of your labor or else you will have a hard time finding work.

>>541807918
And that is your subjective interpretation that has no basis in reality.
Just because you arbitrarily decide that we will always be able to make enough food doesnt make it true.
This is why communism fails, because idiots like you inevitably end up in charge of it.
You know nothing about food production and yet think you should be able to manage food production.
This is how you end up with lysenkoism and starvation.
Under capitalism, if someone like you tried to run a farm you would fail and go bankrupt as you deserve.

>>541808674
Profit is merely a metric of efficiency.

Regardless, lets get to the core of your argument.
You speak as if society should be optimized to ensure basic needs are met for everyone.
Why?
You take it for granted that all people should clothed fed and housed, but to what end?
Why is more humans simply existing a good thing?
I argue that human advancement is a more noble goal.
Putting people on mars is a morally superior objective to ending world hunger.

>>541811669
A marxist is anyone who uses Marxist terms or accepts Marxist axioms.
The names are meaningless regardless.
What matters are the principles the names refer to.
Socialism in all its forms holds a certain set of moral values, economic axioms, and philosophical assumptions.
Those are the things that are wrong.
If you have agreed with any of the assertions of the communist manifesto, you are a communist, rrgardless of whatever special snowflake bullshit you try to call yourself.

>>541804657
Meanwhile it's not even legal to eat pets in the west so who is really free?

>>541804177
Why can't faggots think of a better system besides communism?

>>541804177
Capitalism does not even exist in the present. The world is running on 100% pure Judaism. Real economic activity has been sidelined, the economy is utterly dominated by the manipulation of Jewish financial instruments.

>>541813317
>This is why the labor theory of value is moronic.
I'm haven't actually read Marx or anything but I have skimmed over them and I'm pretty sure the labor theory of value is converned with factory work, mass production, not hand crafted artisinal products. Capitalism is a very efficient system and it did takeover because of that I will grant that. But it treating it as the end of all history with no better system is just shallow minded.

>That entire second paragraph.
That's a lot of idealism

>>541813547
>And that is your subjective interpretation that has no basis in reality.
That is an objective statement, focusing on just the United States we have the ability to trivially produce enough food to feed our population several times over. We have tons of arable land and mechanized farming equipment.
>>541813751
>Regardless, lets get to the core of your argument.
You speak as if society should be optimized to ensure basic needs are met for everyone.
>Why?
In a democracy the democracy is only as good as the people in it. By atleast ensuring everyone has their basic needs met they can be free to developme themselves and their capabilities to the highest degree. This is the old liberalism that people like John Locke wrote about. I am not amaking a moral argument but I would advocate for human advancement and I think the best way to realize that is by "investing" in our own population so that they can fully realize their capabilities whatever they may be.

>>541815545
>That is an objective statement, focusing on just the United States we have the ability to trivially produce enough food to feed our population several times over. We have tons of arable land and mechanized farming equipment.
Your understanding of agriculture is so rudimentary its embarrassing.

>>541805017
>everything you fear about the vacuum of space was told you from the comfort of earth's atmosphere
This fallacy probably already has a name

>>541804657
tornadoes and floods also happen in capitalist countries

>>541815545
And you are making a moral argument.
Anytime you talk about how things "should" be you are making a moral argument.
If you claim something "should" be a certain way it is because of the implication that that way is "better" but to do so carries the implicit assumption that things are "good" and "bad".
Thats morality.
Socialism is evil because its core morality is evil.
You just bury it with compassionate sounding surface-level plattitudes.

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The system is not important, it's about the quality of the people at the top.

Netanyahoo controlling your communist government will be just as disasterous as him controlling your current government.

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>>541804177
this is henry orbit. hes the live in maintenance guy instead of the building being owned by the bank and subcontracting migrants

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>>541804177
pray for total 419(k) devaluation

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>>541804177

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>>541804177
the sheen/debs debate is irrelevant. what matters is that jp morgan owns the central bank

>>541804177
jews

>>541805486
>Capitalism pushes for [blah blah blah blah]
its jp morgan. america has the same jp morgan central bank problem that weimar germany did

>>541804251
Labor time.

>>541804177
why my [x] is better than your [x]

magic words that can mean anything, mean nothing,

you are not in the age of systems where your proposal system can fix shit,
you are in the kali yuga, the age after the systems failed, and the only thing you can count on is yourself. Make sure your only reliable thing (You) is not unprepared for the task.

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>>541804177

success doesn't need to accommodate alternatives, cuck. Communists will never know this feeling because they've never succeeded at anything, only achieved various degrees of failure.

>>541815734
All I mean by abundant is that we can increase the supply much higher than the demand if we wanted to. As it is farming is already subsidized so the price of food isn't equilibrium and we are producing "more than we need" by a profit metric.

>>541815931
The argument I am making is more or less about the machine called capitalism and whether or not it's doing what we collectively want it to do. If you do have moral values like "human advancement" or whatever I don't think this machine serves these values.

>>541815962
So how does communism uniquely combat corruption in a way that our current system cannot? Do you really think you and your friends are going to be the ones incharge if a communist revolution happens and is successful? Don't make me laugh, you'll be pushed out of any position of any real significance within a week because you are passive, weak, idealists and corruption specializes in taking advantage of passive, weak, idealists. Communism has zero contingencies in place for corruption at high levels of governance and infact that is a built in feature. You are being led to slaughter and are proud of it. You are being led to slaughter and are shaming every other cow on the farm for not wanting to willing walk into the slaughter barn because.. progress. Fucking idiots

>>541816738
Its not a machine.
It wasnt built with a purpose of any sort.
It wasnt built at all.
Capitalism evolved naturally according to natural principles.
The fact you people think its a machine that can be tuned is why communism always kills millions of people.

>>541815734
>As it is farming is already subsidized so the price of food isn't equilibrium and we are producing "more than we need" by a profit metric.
Even our very conservative government recognizes that profit isn't the end goal and it wouldn't be a good idea to let millions of Americans starve because their current lives at present are not profitable.

>>541816738
>I mean by abundant is that we can increase the supply much higher than the demand if we wanted to. As it is farming is already subsidized so the price of food isn't equilibrium and we are producing "more than we need" by a profit metric
And on this point you are just wrong.
You decided this arbitrarily based on your ignorant opinion about agriculture.
You jave no idea how food is produced, how much labor, or how many resources it requires and yet you feel qualified to dictate who should produce what and how .much.
Thats hubris and it gets people killed.

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>>541816906
>So how does communism uniquely combat corruption in a way that our current system cannot?
Revolution, pray the good guys win.
The good guys win, kicks out all the anglokike invaders, banish their servants to the island.
Current China is the legacy of the good guys winning the civil war.

Current China is winning against Muttmerica. And sore losers like you are seething over basic truths.

>>541804177
Because its never existed and socialism is a fantasy

>>541806200
And half the time they bitch about stuff they wanted like central banks, bailouts, and barriers to entry.

>>541817413
china doesnt have the mandate of heaven; look at the flooding

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china numbah wan

>>541804177
We can. It'll be a kingdom. The kingdom of the Lord Jesus Christ. His enemies will be cast into a fiery pit. And his people will be kings and priests

>>541817678
>look at the flooding
Dead Mutts at grand canyon flood, lmao

>>541804177
Probably cuz they proved its superiority during the cold war.

>>541817049
>Its not a machine.
Everything is a machine and capitalism is man made it emerged naturally because it was a good way to allocate resources and for a few people to get filthy rich. And the latter half is why it really stuck around.
>Capitalism evolved naturally according to natural principles.
This reminds me of a really funny skit with 1800's economists talking about the beauty of the rational market and economic ideas with cutaways to 200million dollar virtual yachts and fartcoin.
>>541817186
>You you you
You haven't made a reasonable case for the contrary and you are just putting words in my mouth. I didn't say anything about what food or how much should be produced. I'm just saying we can make it if we needed to.

>>541806443
>America was more socialist befoe the brakes were taken off the money printer
As always, lying commie shitstains bitch about things they wanted.

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>>541804177
I can imagine it. It's called a dystopia.

>>541804177
The term capitalism was popularized by a socialist (Marx). His books title was literally "The Capital". In fact socialism mades a name and substance for himself by opposing to a windmill,strawman capitalism, while in fact most of the huge internationalist capitalists want socialism ushering through poverty so they have full political power over the population aside the economic that they now have.

>>541817832
kek, they were 1/1000th the amount of bugmen that washed away.

>>541817832
>Grand canyon death toll: 2
>Nepal death toll: over 1000 and counting
We are not the same

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>>541805017
>Brought to you by socialists

>>541805017
The west is shit because we're run by communists.
China is bussin' cause they're actually doing Capitalism.

>>541804177
Reminder that Capitalism vs Communism is just a debate about who treats their slaves better.

>>541818397
there has been terrible flooding in multiple places in southern china, thousands more have died.

>>541804177
>long established economic system that evolve with mankind since the first tribes came about
>tard muttoid scammer faggot living on his ivory tower in the UK say some about le capital
nigger, please. go be dumb somewhere else.
the reason why the economy is screw is not only because of marxists tards of all stripes interference and kikes, other golems had also influence it negative over the ages but not to the extend kikes, commies and christcucks do.

I think capitalism works good but what happens when everyone's work is replaced with robots? when any job you can possibly imagine will be done better by some robot?
not that I advocate for communism in that scenario, I honestly think all current systems are a scam to get work out of pleb, one way or another, and they'll both have the incentive of discarding pleb once their work isn't needed anymore
debate

>>541804177
POWERFUL

>>541818553
>>long established economic system that evolve with mankind since the first tribes came about
Oh no no no.

>>541818350
Anthony Sutton books are about this, very well researched too.
https://www.thriftbooks.com/a/antony-c-sutton/204225/

>>541808813
that's not entirely true, although the first 2 sentences are a good summary
the classical world was full of kingdoms trying to force subsistence farmers into coin based economies because their soldiers expected to be paid in coinage rather than in kind
and even without coinage, taxes were frequently accounted for in terms of silver weight but an amount of produce equal in value to the weight of silver you owed could be given instead, because like you note most people were subsistence farmers without access to lumps of precious metal. so for example, a royal bureaucrat might assess a farmer as owing 2kg of silver as taxes but he would pay X bushels of wheat (0.5 kg/silver) + Y bushels of barley (0.5 kg/silver) + Z bushels of flax (0.75 kg/silver) + N head of sheep (0.25 kg/silver)

the big shift under capitalism was producing not for use value but for exchange value. you didn't raise cattle because you (or your landlord) wanted cheese to eat, you raised cattle to sell the cheese. you didn't grow flax because you (or your landlord) wanted flax to spin into linen to make textiles, you grew flax to sell on the market.
its no coincidence that it wasn't until the start of the industrial revolution that capitalism finally killed off feudalism for good, because only with industrialization could people actually produce far FAR more than they could reasonably use and you could seriously make an economy about trading based on exchange value vs on use value

>>541809093
Do you not understand what that means and just think Elon Musk eats enough to feed all the starving children in Africa before taking a dip in his 20 million barrel swimming pool of crude? Or are you saying that he manages too much and we should give the whole economy to a central committee?

>>541818553
>capitalism is when trade
stfu you stupid monkey

>>541805178
The secret to Communism is having Gulags so scary that the mere threat of being sent there is enough to make the laziest, most ignorant peasants find their bootstraps and figure out how to build a space ship in a few decades.

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>>541818870

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>>541818514
Yeah you can comfort yourself to sleep over that. But at the end of the day you're still israel's bitch.
LMAO

>>541818857

See below:
>>541809970
>>541810494

>>541804177
Capitalism is just a buzzword that most Americans don’t think much about. Democracy is used in the same way, as if it’s this amazing thing that can’t ever be questioned. Bring up the republic though and people act like you’re speaking a foreign language.

>>541804177
Because we are slaves and slaves only want to be in bondage and hate freedom.

>>541804251
(((Worth))), found the kike. The only thing in this entire world that has worth is Jesus Christ, there is no other worth in existence.

>>541818870
And gulags that are not mere prisons, but attempts at corrupting the soul

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>>541818940
Sup bud

>>541819042
>this dude got too powerful providing cars and satellite internet that he might undermine your freedom
>so we're going to deliberately undermine your freedom to hand power to people that provided you with nothing
Once again commies bitch about shit they ask for.
>Elon invited himself
Trump campaigned on DOGE. The voters invited Elon to shut down those programs.

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>>541819335
Sup Mutt.
Better luck with your next goy.

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>>541804177

>>541819310
Eventually communism implodes by itaelf if it isnt fed by free countries traitorous politicians, bankers and big institutions.
Reminder about how socialism works to silently undermine free countries:

https://youtu.be/yErKTVdETpw?is=2bYWCUFwfNEkG-fF

>>541818405
By reading that list for 325894th time, i just had an epiphany about the destruction of the church. Kikes hate churches not because they hate Christ (They do) but mainly because churches serves as a community, where people can organize. Jews dread the goyim forming communities and any form of organization, which is why they also infiltrated churches to destroy them from within. It just happen that they cannot outright pull an excuse out of their asses to implement any degree of surveillance inside a Church.

>>541819489
Homie, a Zionist jew invented communism. Get over it

>>541804177
>Americans
>implying
Literally nobody wants your fucking Stalins and Maos to further ruin their life and our world, OP.

Move to fucking China or North Korea instead of destroying your country's future, if you're even from the US and not a CCP shill on VPN.

both commiecels and capitards cannot address my argument

>>541819584
>destroying your country's future
comrade trump is already on that

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>>541819557
Your Evil race invented a lot of things.
But the inventions can be put to good use too.

>>541819557
Marx wasn't very pro-Jew, nor did he invent the idea of socialism.

>>541819652
You are thrashing around, desperate to land a hit that hurts. Your pic does not hurt, try harder

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>>541816906
>So how does communism uniquely combat corruption in a way that our current system cannot?
Capitalism is uniquely incapable of combatting corruption. What you see as "corruption" is the normal relationship between capital and the state under capitalism. The state serves the interests of capital, it's right in the name of the system.

Communist China executes corrupt politicians who accept bribes.

Bribing politicians isn't even a crime in America. It's called Lobbying and it's perfectly legal and socially acceptable.

>>541804177
Because they've been thouroughly psyopped by every figure of cultural, educational, and political authority throughout their entire lives, to limit their mindset to within the current system. Why don't sheep jump over fences?

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>>541819831
Well I said communism, not socialism and as far as Marx opinion on Jews and the jewish religion in general, you are just completely wrong

>>541804664
Obamacare

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>>541819885
>You are thrashing around
It's a fact. Mutt.

Your Evil race invented a lot of things.
But each invention can be put to good use.
Do you have enough braincells to process the logic?

>>541805980
Socialist governments are harder to corrupt, because the power of money is much lower

>>541819964
>government involvement in the economy is bad so we should switch to a system where the government runs the economy
Commies still bitching about things they ask for.

>>541820159
Only Chinas cultural production and impact is close to zero, especially when we take into account its huge population. Japs are miles ahead of you on expression, and you know, we live in the information age.

>>541816556
retarded

>>541806835
If the government supports eugenics, then this isn't a problem. If anything, a socialist government has more power to do that than capitalist governments do. How many talented individuals are trapped as wage slaves or NEETs in capitalist countries?

>>541820618
>government involvement in the economy is bad
Nigger, you're arguing with yourself, I never said that. You're the one that thinks that's bad, not me.

>>541804177
China is the biggest benefactor of capitalist economic activity.

>>541819507
Hi Ishmael. Are you enjoying forcing a banking debt trap unto Greece and blaming it on communism?

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Why is it always communism vs capitalism? Why has nobody come up with a third option that's superior to both

>>541820012
Marx was very openly critical of the monetary corruption of Jewish culture, which has been the main problem with Jews historically.

>>541820606
>Socialist governments are harder to corrupt, because the power of money is much lower
The only ones allowed to exercise corruption in a socialist governments are the high echelons of the party. Some examples: Maduro, Putin, the little missile man and Mao Zedong. I would add Xi, but im not informed enough to make that assumption.

>>541819964
>>541820842
So nothing. Communism offers nothing unique in and of itself that combats corruption, so it is just as susceptible to corruption as any other governing system. Thanks, got it

>>541818481
The cope is palpable.

>>541821026
Thank you for your opinion, provided without any source. Very helpful

>>541806574
Compare the price of housing and healthcare in China or the USSR to that of the US, and try to explain why it isn't the fault of capitalism.

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>>541820661
>muh cultural production
China produces a lot of things on television and livestream,
it's not their fault you're butthurt at their civilisation and lack any interest towards it.

>>541804177
like wooow did communists actually do something capitalists did over half a century ago? that's wild dude

>>541806200
le problem: a system that rewards greed
le solution: a system that supresses greed
It's pretty simple actually.

>>541821316
How does communism uniquely supress greed in a way that our current system cannot?

>>541821171
Yeah, man. In the glorious workers utopia of the USSR you could get on a 20 year waiting list to spend 5% of your income on an apartment smaller than my living room. And the cool part is that people who were good at their jobs, like engineers at MiG and nuclear workers, got something approaching a Western standard of living for free because they were smarter than everyone else. And that's how "To each according to their needs and from each according to their abilities" actually works out in practice lol.

Another fun fact about the USSR. Aside from being a faggot being a jailable offense (based), the state only paid for your kid's school through the fifth grade. If you wanted them to go further, you had to pay a fee through their equivalent of high school. You also had to pay for their school lunches. Basically the entire system was set up so that everyone got whatever they absolutely needed, but no one had more than anyone else. And this is why everyone was a miserable, lazy, alcoholic. Why wouldn't they be? After all, the best paying jobs in the USSR were taxi driver, banquet waitress, and merchant sailor. Just a totally fucking sensible utopia lol.

>>541804177
China is state capitalist. Basically Fascist

>>541809970
Seriously, it's like slaves defending their masters. So pathetic.

>>541821461
I'll never have as much or more than Bezos. But I'll always have more than you. And that's all that matters to me.

>>541821216
I had the exact same question on a greek forum, a pro socialist China person linked me some of Chinas best viral videos, and they were (culturally saying) like eating cardboard. Drone people dont produce culture, thats a fact.

>>541804177
they can
it's called Dark Enlightenment and they're currently spearheading it

>>541809262
You're okay with communism(socialism) then, as long as it has good leadership. In capitalism, the leadership will NEVER be good. They are bought out, and only the ones who are most corrupt and shameless are given a platform to power.

>>541821407
>you could get on a 20 year waiting list to spend 5% of your income on an apartment smaller than my living room
and here in the glorious capitalist utopia of the US you can literally never own a home of any kind if you're in the bottom 50% of society!

>>541821411
>Fascist
the ultimate cope of right wing losers. china is a marxist-leninist state that recognizes that it must pass through a period of capitalist accumulation in order to achieve the level of development needed to transition to communism. the capitalists do not have the power in china, the M-L vanguard party does

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>>541804177
Because they told us we weren't allowed.

>>541818318
Do burgers really believe world history started at world war 2?

>>541821522
You are poor in spirit. That will never change no matter how much money you make.

>>541804177
Enough Americans came from socialism that are willing to kill socialists rather than return to it. Sorry chuddie.

>>541821527
You are not Greek.

>>541821624
Migrantes...

>>541821590
>china is a marxist-leninist state that recognizes that it must pass through a period of capitalist accumulation
and I am the one coping

>>541818318
>comnunism
>hitler was a socialist
>islam is now an economic policy
the country that put a dozen-ish men on the moon 50 years ago is now dominated by retards relying on google autocomplete to think

>>541821216
My neighbors are Chinese. They own the local buffet. They don't speak a word of English. But the missus is always out with her Bluetooth speaker blaring Chinese "music" while she gardens. And I have to say that they have to be the most talentless, uninspired, spiritually vacuous people on Earth going by their music. Like, yeah, Chinese nigga. I get that C, F, G, and D are chords. Do you know that there are other chords too? Like throw a fucking minor or a sus in there occasionally.

>>541804177
Because decades of richfag propaganda has legitimately convinced them that hard work, determination, grit, and inventiveness are the pathway to wealth that all richfags took.

Meanwhile behind the scenes the richfags are all in one big incestuous cabal that uses the government to enrich themselves through one sided regulations that keep competition out, contract steering, closed doors sweetheart deals, bank bailouts, slush fund embezzlement and many many more schemes that only they get to enjoy.

>>541804177
because no one have a future without capitalism, not even die hard maoists, just look at china after Mao died.
The problem is that the US needs to become slightly more merit based socialist.
It's literally easy, just start with the troops and then lower it logarithmically based on meritocratic value of citizens.

>>541821100
Don't know much about Venezuela, but I know that Putin and Xi are the most active anti-corruption leaders in the world right now.

>>541821623
>You are poor in spirit
I already knew you were broke and useless. You didn't have to state is so explicitly. Fuck, when you spineless twats finally gas yourselves up to come and try and take our shit, I'm going to have the time of my life.

>>541804177
>retard chink frankenstate mixture of nationalism and socialism fires a rocket into orbit based on technology white nazis invented 60+ years ago
yeah and? how does this have anything to do with giving lazy niggers and spics free money

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>>541821527
>muh viral videos
And your viral videos have your kids eat tidepods.
So what?

>>541821681
damn I guess marx was a capitalist then, since he firmly believed only in advanced capitalist economies would the working class organize and overthrow capitalism
china is using capitalist tools without being capitalist since the capitalist class does not control their society

>>541821151
Read your own AI digest you brainwashed faggot. It literally says it in your GoyAI Planned Thinking paragraph

>>541820904
Big european banks were bailed with money from our small bonds shareholders. Tsipras in 2015 should gtfo of euro, he ignored a referendum and then signed to give Greece economy to europeons in a silver platter.

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>>541821616
The Powell memo & the rise of the corporate lobby
>“Lewis Powell wrote a memo in which he essentially said, US business is losing a war for the soul of America. We are losing the campuses, we are losing the younger generations, they no longer hold business in esteem as has always historically been the case in the United States, they now see business as a force for evil in American society, they want to rein it in.”

>A 1971 memo penned for the head of the US Chamber of Commerce, by lawyer Lewis Powell, calls for American businesses to defend their interests in the face of liberal concessions, through the creation of lobby groups, media and think tanks.

>With every gain made by marginalised sections of the American people, the American establishment – both government and business – sought redress to keep the status quo, and keep the people in their place.

>In a 1971 memo penned for the head of the US Chamber of Commerce, by lawyer Lewis Powell, the business elite moved to take back some of the ground ceded to the people’s interests.

https://interactive.aljazeera.com/aje/2017/the-people-vs-america/phone/1970s.html

https://www.whitehouse.senate.gov/news/speeches/the-scheme-1-the-powell-memo/

https://www.thenation.com/article/society/powell-memo-project-2025-plutocracy/

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>>541821696
I don't care niggerspic. You can stay butthurt all you want.

>>541821789
Then according to your logic, either Marx was a retard, or Mao was a retard, or most likely both of them are retards. Why do you have two retards hanging on your walls Chang?

>>541821742
Dont know about Xi, but Putin is a multi billionaire, lives in a literal palace, and all his daughters are living in western countries; all while his country is known for its massive prostitution, human trafficking and organized crime groups.

>>541821648
False. Αν θες την γυρνάμε στα ελληνικά τη συζήτηση.

>>541821895
>man can't see the future and makes an incorrect prediction
>"he's a retard"
funny how you never actually tried to defend china being "fascist" btw

>>541821407
The waiting list wasn't 20 years long, it was for apartment ownership, apartments there are the same size as they are here, and fixed price rent was guaranteed from the start of employment. And why are you complaining that smart people lived better? That's a good thing, and it goes against the narrative of "no incentives"

>>541821950
Σίγουρα, ξέρω να μιλάω και ελληνικά. Απλώς πληκτρολογώ αγγλικά στην εφαρμογή μετάφρασης, πολύ βολικό.

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>>541821895
>Marx was a retard
Yes, he was basically a Hobo kike living at the expense of a rich kike.
>Mao was a retard.
Didn't his incompetence and retarded actions kill 60 million people on a massive unprecedented famine caused by him seizing and melting farming tools, then calling for the mass extermination of sparrows? all while gaslighting the population by announcing that they had excess food production?
Also, look at his haircut. Looks retarded enough to me.

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>>541804177
>Implying China isn't doing capitalism.

>>541821980
Rent?

>>541822059
Εντάξει, για πρότεινέ μου ένα όντως ενδιαφέρον κινέζικο βιβλίο (δεν μπορεί, εύκολα στην εποχή μας θα υπάρχει αγγλική μετάφραση) ή ταινία η βιντεο ή μουσική. Κατά προτίμηση από Κινέζο όχι μετανάστη στη δύση, Κινέζο εντός σοσιαλιστικής Κίνας. Κάτι πρωτότυπο ας πούμε και συγκινητικό, αν επιτρέπονται ακόμα τέτοια εκεί πέρα.

>>541821748
You're going to be enslaved by the elites in the future just like the rest of us. The only difference is, your material comfort has numbed your mind to the truth. But by all means, focus on the people that are really out to get you, everyone poorer than you. You are an obedient little bitch whose mind has been trained by your overlords from a young age.

>>541821951
If Mao followed Marx to the T then he would have as you said gone through the capitalistic period. Either Mao wasn't actually a Marxist, or Marxism was a retarded ideology without real world application.
The only reason China was a "success" like all the other East Asian countries because they were uplifted by the white man. In your case Chang, our boomers were dumb enough to taught you everything and transfer all know-how to you so they can get their buy their slop a bit cheaper from kike merchants at the expense of their children.

Your petty argument about muh political system, all off them derived from the white philosophies, are irrelevant and meaningless to us.

>>541821826
The banking system is capitalist. It doesn't matter what someone calls themselves, if they sell their country to foreign bankers, they are practicing capitalism.

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>>541804177

Why are people still making Twitter screenshot threads, if that kike Elon took down Nitter?

>>541822351
>Your petty argument
lmao I'm not the one that flatly declared that china is fascist and refuses to support the claim because "it simply doesn't matter"
literally the
>ugh why do you care so much
defense libs give for tranny shit

>>541822239
This. What most commies fail to accept, is the fact that the Chinese model, embraces socialism as a governance model, while leveraging a capitalist economic model. Which results on them delivering stuff faster, since they don't have to deal with all the bureaucratic shit the west has to deal with to get shit done, but the Chinese economic boom is in fact result of unrestrained Capitalism.

>>541821932
The prostitution, gangs, etc, all arose in the period after the USSR fell but before Putin came to power. Putin has actually ended most of these things and restored the stability of Russia. And the main form of corruption, governmental corruption via the post-Soviet oligarchy, was broadly curtailed by Putin.

>>541822268
At a low price ratio compared to the wages, as you said around 5%. It's funny how I pointed out all of your lies, and the only thing you can complain about now is a rent that is 5% of the wage.

>>541822613
>Chinese economic boom is in fact result of unrestrained Capitalism.
But they still can and do step in when they need to. It's capitalism on a leash.

>>541822647
>There is less shit on my food, so the chef is a good cook.
Okay... i guess. With all the power and resources he controls, you could expect him to being able to fix all that shit within 2-3 years, so what is his excuse?

>>541822283
Κοιτάξτε το Er Gen, τα μυθιστορήματα «xianxia» γενικά.

>>541822723
How am I paying rent in a communal society? There's no money

>>541815962
Wait until you find out about human nature

>>541821316
Go be a buddhist and quit complaining that the system is giving you what you want, greedy hypocrite.

>>541822817
His excuse is he inherited a country in abject ruin, and fought to gain control over a monopolistic oligarchy using only a limited government power.

>>541822883
Even Marx didn't want the abolition of money, he wanted it to be tied precisely to labor value, to be free of speculation and financial barons. No speculation = cheap cost of living, cheap cost of living = cheap labor.

>>541823008
it has been 27 years

>>541823008
>and fought to gain control over a monopolistic oligarchy using only a limited government power.
Dude... that nigger has been on the government for 26 years. Just stop coping and accept that he doesnt have any interest in putting an halt to crime on his country for whatever reason.
I would expect you to use Xi or even Kim as an example to defend Socialism on that matter, because they, at least have crime in check.