>japan bombs pearl harbor>america declares war on germany >????
Germany declared war on the U.S. first you double-digit IQ retard.Learn to read a history book you dirty street shitter
>>541854541Krauts were literally so full of themselves they declared war on us.
who is ellen? why does she wear the knife?
As a strictly hypothetical scenario what WOULD have happened if Germany didn't declare war? Or what if they had just put their hands up and said "I never saw those guys before in my life" and renounced Japan? I still think with Churchill on his hands and knees begging for the US to get involved, that US warhawks would have found a way, but it is still an interesting scenario. I guess in the German mind if the US was destroying them with supplies to the allies then they may as well get to at least fight them. Idk. However I am not 100% sure Bongs pull off an invasion of France without the US. Certainly the bombing of germany is less effective too.
>>541854541Judge ruled that was a suicide.
>>541855084Hitler declared war on the US, hoping that the japs would return the favour by declaring war on the USSR.Japs Said, "wtf no way fag"Hitler did a funny 'oopsie' face at the camera
>>541854790Your nigger faggot granddad fought and died so that kikes can rule the world. You should kys.
>>541855084If Japan had just done their fucking job and cut the Soviets off they would have won >Noo we need fuck around in a land war with China because…. Well we just do okay??
>>541854790thisChurchill had the best orgasm in his life when retard adolf declared war on america
>>541855301Japan did not care much about Germany or USSR
>>541854541Ni-Hao Chang
>>541855458And how did that work out for them?
>>541855491How? Had they decalred war on USSR they would have lost even faster
>>541855229Since Japan had been at war with China since 1937 and had concluded a mutual non-aggression pact with the Soviet Union, it was unable to invade the Soviet Union.
>>541855554It would have been simple to takeVladivostok and cut off lend lease making defense against the Germans logistically impossible. Germany gets a one front war against the western empires and massive fuel supply and labor force with which to challenge them leaving Japan free and clear to take whatever it wants from colonies in Asia. But nooo nanking pussies need raping right now!!
>>541855301The Soviets rekt the Japs in 1939 forcing them into a 1941 Neutrality Pact. Why would the Japs think that they could take on both America and Russia at the same time? Besides Japan's imperial ambitions lay with the non-Russian rest of Asia at the time.
>>541855071>too stupid to figure out how reverse image search works = too stupid to figure out how 4chan works = too stupid to post on 4chan this is you.pajeet.
>>5418557331. Japan already had a war with USSR in 1939 and lost it2. Allies had other land lease routes anyway through Iran and Murmansk
>>541854790>zimmerman telegram was realAre you a jew, a retard, or both?
>>541855733A lot of the lend-lease went through the Atlantic and through the Strait of Hormuz oddly enough.
>>541855652You actually know that contracts can be ditched, right? Fucking cuck.
>>541854790>Germany declared war on the U.S. firstThis is not correct.German had a military alliance with Japan, when the US and Japan went to war, German was alliance entrapped. It's also sometimes called "Chain-ganging" in geopolitics. Germany would never voluntarily go to war with the US, because such a blunder would have immediately changed the dynamics of the war if favor of the Allies. No country on Earth could compete with US production rates. This wasn't a secret, everyone knew this. Furthermore, if you remember, The Nazis were fighting for the German people. There was a massive German diaspora in the US that would either have to be recalled to the fatherland and fight against their own brothers (Band of Brothers depicted this), or they would be put in interment camps or killed, which the US ended up doing (Look up US German interment camps). Literally no good options there.Finally, please consider the following:Delaying the US's entry into the war could only benefitted the Axis. So logically accelerating the US's entry into the war benefits the Allies. Guess who else knew this: FDR.Guess who had spies in the Rikugun-sho: FDRGuess who knew that a full oil embargo would been seen as an act of war by the Japanese, but not by the American public: FDRGuess who ordered an amassing of naval assets in Pearl Harbor for no fucking reason whatsoever, and ordered all the radar stations unmanned: FDRGuess who ordered a very specific alert readiness for Hawaii military bases, that placed all the aircraft onto the tarmac, making for easy targets for the Zeroes: A general operating under FDR's doctrine. Guess who really wanted war with the Axis because he's a member of the international banking cabal that is threatened by Nazis, nationalism, and ethno-centrism: FDRGuess who really didn't want war: The American people, and the German people.Guess who died on masse and who didn't, and who ended up in power.
>>541855896At that time, the conflict against China and the United States was intensifying for Japan, and Japan hoped that Germany would not invade the Soviet Union.
>>541855784Because Russia wouldn’t exist without lend lease and a powerful united hostileContinental Europe would be way more of a threat to focus on for the allies than fucking Japan.
>>541855071>who is ellen? why does she wear the knife?haha
>>541855229wtf are you talking about churchill refused a peace treaty with germany and forced a war that America joined well toward the latter stages. Pearl Harbour never happened and Lancaster Bombers were the only craft capatable of dropping their so called Nuke. Yno what, you do you. I am so sick of this stupid shit. You know why cunt? Because of Jews. It never stopped and it wont stop until theyre all fucking in a cage starving to death.
>>541854541Play stupid games win stupid prizes.
>>541854541The order was>Japan bombs Pearl Harbor>the US enters a war with Japan>Germany, since it was allied with Japan, declares war on the US
>>541855848Are you confusing WW1 with WW2?
If Hitler doesn't declare war on the US, and draws back aggression on US shipping, then MAYBE Roosevelt doesn't have the support in congress to declare war on Germany. Then Lend Lease keeps flowing unabated, but there is not much chance that UK can invade France or Italy on their own. That means Germany could enter a long term defensive posture in the East falling back to stifle the USSR. British bombing is a problem but far less effective without US day time bombings and sweeps on German air installations. Germany probably has 20-30 extra divisions in the East, plus a less damaged air force, and probably a less damaged synthetic fuel capacity. It only works though if Hitler understands that the jig is up in Russia and he needs to fall back in the East.
>>541856178>If Hitler doesn't declare war on the USHe was allied with Japan and you went to war with Japan.Declaring war on the US was simply the honorable thing to do.You can argue that it was retarded, and it probably was, but all he did was to keep his word.
>>541856061Tripartite pact was a defensive alliance. Germany wasn't bound to support Japan.
>>541856137I don't think their official relationship with Japan actually required them to declare war on the US honestly.
many such cases
>>541856142Im sorry on his behalf. He is american.
>>541856243>but all he did was to keep his wordWhy? Japan did not do the same for him when he invaded USSR
>>541855652Didn't stop Soviet union from invading Japan
>>541854541the cryptokike president rosenvelt baited them with oil sanctions into attacking us in order to get us into a war no one wanted with germany.
>>541854541More like this>Japan attacks pearl harbor>USA declares war on Japan>Germany obligated by tripartite pact to declare war on any state that declared war on tripartite member states.>USA responds to Germany's declaration of war with a declaration of war.
>>541854541This fag doesn't know history and made a post regarding that ignorance.
>>541856243Japan went on an industrial military expansion in the Pacific, their primary competitor in the Pacific was the US- notably they took action against colonial holding if the US allies. The issue here is that they depended on US oil and it was perfectly predictable the US would cut them off. Then they attacked the Pacific fleet serving US war hawks casus belli on a silver platter. This provided no benefit to Germany. And I don't think Germany had any obligation given the circumstances, to declare war on the US.
>>541856243Yes and Japs honored the alliance by declaring war on russia.Oh wait.
>>541856414Japan both declared war and initiated the hostilities first, see >>541856244
>>541854541What was economy in Germany in 1945? Did Germans surrender because economy was bad?
Liberating Asia from Western colonial rule was the just cause of Japan's war. So China, Southeast Asia, and India were high priorities for Japan, not the Soviet Union.
>>541855284He is right and you're just lashing out because you're brown and retarded
>>541855071[spoiler]for you[/spoiler]
>>541856244Yes, it was triggered defensively.The Japanese declared war from a defensive position. The Pearl Harbor strike wasn't a pre-war strike, it was a post-war tactic. The earlier US oil embargo was interpreted as the opening hostilities from the US. The US was warned that the Japanese would interpret it that way too, in fact the US relied on this interpretation for their grand strategy. So yeah they were bound. All the powers involved agreed on this interpretation. The US wasn't concerned about also going to war with Germany because they knew they could outproduce Germany, and they did, and they won. Pretty quickly too all things considered. The US was more concerned that production rates wouldnt spin up fast enough before a Japanese invasion into the homeland, it's why they flooded every major city with state industry. To this day, the downtown of every major city in the US has a massive industrial sector from the WW2 days from that push. They filled a lot of those factories with niggers too btw, it's why "urban" in the US is now associated with niggers.Strategically speaking it was genius, The US public bought the Pearl Harbor "surprise attack" narrative perfectly and rushed to war. It's such an effective strategy, that it somehow works even when people are aware of it. Gulf of Tonkin and 9/11 false flagging are fruit of that rotten tree. People are so retarded they don't even need a cassus belli anymore, Iran is just straight up happening for no reason and dumbasses just accept it.
>>541856061Based post. True American.
>>541856731>The Japanese declared war from a defensive positionnigger, what? wheraboos are the fucking negroes of ideologies, lower than jeets
>this entire threadit was about the war in the Atlantic and submarine warfare
>>541855458> Japan did not care much about …… the USSR That’s blatantly false.
>>541856414Tripartide Act did not technically require Germany to declare war. It only required Germany to get involved if Japan had been attacked by the US first. Regardless it a meaningless document. Japan sperged. Japan was of little help to Germany, they weren't closely cooperating powers. They were on opposite ends of the world strategically. Germany was in the middle of an existential modern war the likes of which had never been seen. The US was a well known economic rising powerhouse. Germany would bear no legal or moral blame for not declaring war.
>>541856731Not selling something to someone isn't an act of war. USA didn't had to fuel japanese war machine in China and Indochina.It wasn't "triggered defensively", Japan could have just stopped invading China if it wanted oil.
Just as Americans love talking about WW2, we Japanese enjoy discussing the 13th-century wars with the Mongols, the civil wars of the 16th century, and the Russo-Japanese War of the early 20th century. On Japanese online forums, people engage in endless debates about these events.
>>541855174The guy who was cleared of homicide (her bf) is jewish btw
>>541857189So what's the deal with the russo-japanese war, why did the japs have to sperg out and sacrifice 100k men to capture *checks notes* half of Sakhalin
>>541856731Sanction on Japan after their war with China were not that severe. All they did was terminate the treaty not an effective embargo. Hell they were still under the treaty for like two years after war with China started before the US even terminated the treaty kek. Coming from their only real competitor in the Pacific (the US) it was fairly predictable by the way that expansion in the pacific would cause tension. Then they stepped in a big pile of retarded shit when they blockaded and then invaded French Indochina. THAT'S when the asset freezes, oil embargo, steel restrictions etc. Happened. So yeah as it turns out if you need oil for you imperial campaign, do NOT step on the toes of the person supplying it to you. Japan didn't need US oil to survive, they needed US oil to maintain their imperial conquest. It was completely predictable that attacking French Indochina would incur substantial US economic response.
>>541857189>we JapaneseCool story Juan
>>541854790>read a jewish revisionist account of what actually happenedNo thanks, faggot.
>>541856802Come now Vitya, you of all people should understand the concept given what's happening in the Dumbass region
>>541857553>every account I don’t like is jewish Why even bother to come to a discussion board? Discussion with you is impossible?!
>>541857651and we are not nuking fucking USA now for their sanctions and then claiming they attacked us and it was a defensive nuke
jews killed huey long so fdr could win and use pearl harbor to get into the warbrits declared war to defend poland, but only on germany and then left poland conquered by the soviets after the warjew war to establish a jew world order, TKD>jew war to establish a jew world order, TKDjew war to establish a jew world order, TKD>jew war to establish a jew world order, TKD
>>541857699shizos flock to these WW II threads like flies only to scream "joooooooiiiish" at everyone and leave
>>541857720well maybe you should
>>541854541>japan bombs pearl harbor
>>541857720Economic sanctions are a form of geopolitical conflict, but they are NOT acts of war. No one is entitled to be sold anything by anyone else. This type of behavior could spoil or strain relations but it is dindu tier to claim it is an act of war kek. It doesn't even make sense. If Japan needed US oil bad enough to declare war on the US, how would that help them get US oil kek?
>>541857720I believe you are going to nuke some country soon.
>>541855301As already stated, the Soviets beat the shit out of the Japs in Manchuria on the eve of WW2, which as a consequence convinced them to invest their limited resources into ships instead of tanks.
>>541855229At that time, Japan was in a period of conflict with the United States; rather than attacking the Soviet Union, it likely would have preferred to form an alliance with the Soviet Union.
>>541854790Judea declared war on Germany first ackshually.
>>541854541Nice picI haven't seen the "Pennsylvania" suicide method in quite a while.
>>541854790Jews bomb people first, they like to declare war only after the war has already been in progress and obvious to everyone, the war declarations will be aired on tv like a faggot reality show with bunch of crocodile tears.
>>541857720Or you may wait till Germany and France will be operated by your stooges which will cripple the expected NATO response.
>>541858107Japan lost that battle, but the Soviet Union suffered more casualties than Japan.
>>541858107Japan had a poor showing in their scuffles with the USSR- that is true but it was far from dispositive like people try to claim. A significant warning sign though for sure. People need to think of Japan in the pacific as a cavalry charge. In 1941-1942 they were optimized at that moment to blitz across the pacific with probably the finest naval fleet in the world. Like a big naval cavalry charge. That would have been useless against the USSR which would have been a land war. They had poor chances of extending anymore in China much with the USSR too in some sort of pitched total land war.Even though the war with the US was pure autism, it at least had a small window of success and played to their strength. However if their charge across the pacific didnt result in a total enemy route they were basically doomed to ruination. Which is what happened. It was one of the worst mistakes in modern history btw.
>>541858334The soviets suffering more casualties is not something to hang your hat on that is their entire MO kek. I dont think there has ever been a conflict where they didn't suffer more casualties. Anyways to your point, it was a loss for the Japanese but people over play it.
>>541855301Yeah I am sure a Japanese offensive into Siberia that would extend their already cripplingly overextend front line by double the amount would have worked out swimmingly for them.I also imagine if Moscow fell by some miracle those 300 Soviet infantry divisions and their generals would tip their hat and fuck off back to their homes instead of doing their planned counter offensive.
>>541856061too copesneednt read
>>541858989Japan fighting Russia in the East is a non starter so let's ignore that for a moment. However, if the US isnt in the war in Europe, Bongs don't open a new front, Bong air raids are far less effective, and the Germans could send like 20-30 more divisions to the East, including some elite mechanized units, plus a much more robust air wing, AND they had the gumption to retract defensively back westward, I don't see the Soviets being able to penetrate. Not saying it would be impossible but it would likely be a boondoggle for the soviets under those conditions. Even in the actual time line there were alot of hingepoints where a few german divisions here or there would have had major effects on big picture outcomes. This would depend on Germany having the gumption to not go down this Kursk road and start doing a much more controlled defensive posture against the soviets.
Japan allied with Germany because Germany was at war with Britain.And Japan did not want Germany to fight the Soviet Union.
>>541859932>Japan allied with Germany because Germany was at war with Britain.At the time, Britain controlled the Strait of Malacca, Singapore—a vital hub for East-West trade—and was also providing support to China via India. examined, Japan, then at war with China, hoped to see Britain weakened.
>>541856248Thank you for your honest thoughts
>>541854541>America stops shipping oil and iron to Japan which puts them in a position to have to attack the US to secure oil for their endeavors
Also Germany declared war on America FIRST 3 days after the US declared war on Japan for Pearl Harbor.
>>541860383The US didnt react that strongly after Japan made war with China. Some military material restrictions but not an embargo etc. What triggered the US was Japan pressing and then occupying French Indochina in 1940-1941. That's when the embargo and asset freeze happened. US was uncomfortable about China, but when the situation with French Indochina happened they started getting paranoid about the Dutch East Indies, Malaya, Phillipines, Singapore etc. And that paranoia was completely rational btw.
>>541856061>German was alliance entrapped.This. It's a double edge sword when you forge alliances with other people, as in you are also a target of their enemies as well.
>>541854790Mutt thinks that history books in it's jew-ruled country are factual lmaoNaive-ness of americans need to be studied
>>541858989Here’s a life hack for you: you don’t actually HAVE to start a land war in China, it’s actually completely optional
>>541860466>Japan attacks China using US sourced oil and steel>US decides they don't want their oil and steel to be used in a war on China>"DISONOROBU! USA, givo oiru ando steeru NOW!"
>>541862997That's the thing though, even when they were at war with china the US was still selling them alot of stuff. It wasnt until Japan (like idiots) started pushing the French around that the US cracked down.
>>541854541
>>541858107Which was apparently not a great plan
>>541857189Why not have debates about WW2? Is there total consensus about things like Pearl Harbor, surrender options/nukes, wartime strategy, etc? Or is it just that people don't want to talk about it because of how it went
The sad thing is we have to live in a world where the victors weren't better, they simply zerged those who were better than them. Everyone knows Asia would have been better off controlled by Japs, and Europe by Nazi Germany. Everyone collectively regrets the outcome of that war. Yet the pea brained retard Allies just HAD to throw bodies at the problem in order to win at all costs. Now look what you did. Fucking look around you.
>>541854541The whole point of pushing Japan to the point where they would attack Pearl Harbor was so that FDR could get his war with Germany. The US was already an active participant in the war with American ships having shoot on sight orders for German submarines.
>>541862903He's right that Germany declared war on the US though after the bombing
>>541856439yes, i really think Hitler should have said he would help Japan by providing ships and weapons and not declare war on the US. He could say he was complying with the pact and if the US tried to say that him supplying Japan with ships and weapons was a wartime act... well then what was the US doing with lend/lease for the last several years? But of course this is all monday morning cornerbacking
>>541863535The reality is that WWII was an extension of WWI. And both of those wars completely kneecapped the march of western civilization collectively. WWI was a completeky pointless and retarded situation. These wars destroyed the romance of the civilization. They opened the door for all sort of political movements to get a toe hold. Euro/western civ was marching on along before that shit. So if you want to blame someone for the whole mess, then you need to blame the people responsible for WWI- namely Russia, Germany, Austrian Empire first and then France and Bongs second. The sick thing is, even without the wars you'd probably still see the nuclear bomb developed by the 60s.. and once that happened the window for a war like WWI and WWII starts to collapse rapidly. Another 20 years and nuclear proliferation would have made this sort of war much less unavoidable. It is completely possible if WWI had vmbeen avoided or at least remained regional, that you could have realistically made it to MAD without a big kneecaping war.
>>541863674US war hawks wanted entry to the war in some capacity but needed an excuse. Japan gave it to them in the pacific but I am not convinced it would have been enough to get into Europe. This is a true unknown. Now obviously it is probably unlikely that Germany could go indefinitely not having an atlantic incident allowing the US into the war. False flags, British subterfuge etc even come to mind. But the thing to remember is that even if opening a second front had been delayed for two years it could have drastically changed the situation for germany. I mean let's say it isnt until like 43 the US gets involved- is that enough time to either win or consolidate your situation in the East? Perhaps.
>>541863859>then you need to blame the people responsible for WWI- namely Russia, Germany, Austrian Empire first and then France and Bongs second.No, the US holds the most blame for WWI. But for the US's involvement first economically then militarily, the war would have remained a relatively minor conflict like the franco prussian war. It was only with American backing that the war was able to become a world war which destroyed western civilization. Woodrow Wilson should receive the lion's share of the blame.
>>541858411Of course it's a bit of an oversimplification, but it's not an overstated importance. The tussle with the huge land power convinced them to pick an easier target in the rest of SE Asia instead, which had as a consequence enormous effect on the European theatre. If the Soviets couldn't shuffle all those Siberian divisions to the front in 41, who knows how it would have gone.It is akin to Barbarossa in that way. It made strategic sense, but it might just never have had the chance to work when your mouth writes checks your ass can't cash.
>>541854541The goyim needed to die
>>541864828Lmfao absolutely deranged. Austria had a dysfunctional vassal and Russia literally stuck their pecker into it. Then germany sperged at Russia and tried to cockblock and the Bongs and French dog piled in. It really is that simple. And while I have heard no shortage of creative insane attenuated theories for why it "was akshually the US's fault" I find all of them almost clinically deranged in light of Russia and Germany's DIRECT involvement in that entire situation. I mean the US was still kind of a backwater when that shit was happening btw. Still a rising power but by no means pulling the fucking strings kek get a grip.
>>541854873Somebody gotta do itCant complain about the spirit though.
>>541854541>>japan bombs pearl harbor>>america declares war on germany>> Al Qaeda "crashes planes" into the Twin Towers, and the Pentagon. >> American goes to war with Iraq. Same old tired out play books, different decade.
I love germans so much
>>541865513In most wars where one side is vastly outnumbered/outclassed, there usually arent alot of hingepoints that could have a major chance of changing things. However that declaration in 1941 is a legitimate exception. It is completely conceivable it could have changed some things even if ultimately unlikely. When you are the underdog, you cannot afford to make any missteps and have to seize every opportunity available. You don't have the luxury of misteps and I consider the German declaration of war a genuine miscalculation.
>>541866003For Germany prolly yesBut you guys lost your last chance to get rid of the kikery and look where you are now
>>541854790>Learn to read a history book you dirty street shittertechnically burgers were already involved in war, Hitler basically made it legally clear, instead you would have circus like with Iran-Usa war that is Talmudicly not war https://www.history.navy.mil/content/history/museums/nmusn/explore/photography/wwii/wwii-atlantic/battle-of-the-atlantic/pre-us-entry-into-wwii.html
>>541866204Look, WWII is completely academic to me, in terms of regrets my mind is still hung up on the 1860s.
>>541866234Involved? Yes. But in very real pragmatic terms I don't see Bongs opening a second front or as destructive a bombing campaign in Germany as long as the US is just shipping material and having squabbles over supply/commerce raiding. That is a very real difference. And while you're looking at it from a very legalistic standpoint I am thinking in real terms of "what would have changed the outcome for germany."
>>541863859I’m going to blame Jews and you can’t stop me
>>541866600There's always some of them in the woodpile in any event but dindu'ing is a different matter.
>>541865391what you dont understand is that austrians can not commit evil, we were the most christian people of all. what youre doing thats like blaming crusades for holocausting sandkikes. dont mistake aryans for your own likes.
>>541867390Despite it being the Austrian empire's dysfunctional handling of their vassals that opened the door, I find them less culpable for it becoming a world war than Russia and Germany sticking their noses in what should have been a very regional episode and making it an international affair. Specifically Russia.
>>541857326the victim was Jewish tooit's an interesting case because the goy police immediately understood that this is an internal Jewish affair so they are not to interfereonly someone forgot to tell the coroner and the truth came outand i guess from then on the victim's family was force to pretend it's a cover-up by the goy police in the end they got their wergild not from the killer's family but the goy police who they sued for emotional damages or somethingthat way they got paid out without the killer having to face goy justice
>>541854541Israelis let Muslims do 911 and then we declare war on Iraq? There's nothing new under the sun.
>>541854541They were allies.That is why.
>>541854790rothschilds needed their agent hitler to bring america into the wargotta maintain plausible deniability though, thus the Tripartite Pact inserting Japan for literally no reason other than to use them to bring America into the war.
