Why both sides of the fence push the idea that Putin is the ultimate sovereign? I just can't believe that he is the center of every geopolitical decision in Russia. He is not the only ex-KGB in the upper echelon of Kremlin. Hell, there are way worse people in there than him, like Bortnikov or Patrushev.
>>541958094Well what would happen to Putin if he said something like>This anti-Nazi campaign doesn't make any sense, I'm declaring an end to the warWould he be assassinated?
>>541958217My take? Yes. I do not believe that this whole ordeal is his personal brainchild. It was a collective descision.Think about it, do you sincerely believe that ex soviet intelligence / army higher ups were just happy to indulge solely his ambitions?
I just don't know how to engage you when I have a legit /pol/ related theme for a thread.It appears you only interested in BBCs and yellow fever.
they openly call themselves the new royalty honestly communism is preferable to this just because of principle
>>541958094what evidence do you have to support this?i can also say "all politics are theatre, all countries are controlled by some shady person who pulls all the strings" and it is an unfalsifiable statementif putin was the figurehead of a deep state or an oligarchy operating from the shadows, it would be safer and more sustainable for them to replace the puppet every few yearsit would seem more democratic and prevent the figurehead from accumulating power from within
>>541959016they are very open about it. Op is stating factshttps://www.jstor.org/stable/20788646
>>541959016I don't believe that there is some sort of deep state in Russia. I just don't think that Putin built a personalized autocracy. He is propped by his circle of ministers, oligarchs, servicemen. Again, those people operate in the open.They collectively run this state and wage this war, not just Putin himself.
>>541958094only neocons obsess over putinI don't care who rules Russia
>>541959211>putin isn't ruling entirely by himself, he is also utilizing his subordinatesdamn brothat's some crazy ass theory you got thereyou may be on to something
>>541959267LET THE RUSSIAN SPEAK
>>541959305Don't be a bitch, it's not about "subordinates" he is a figurehead, but that's it.I hear a lot of rhetoric in style of "oust Putin and the war will end", but I don't believe that this is true. Kremlin will put someone else in power, like Iran did, and the stuff will keep going.
>>541959428If Putin is a figurehead then who do you think is actually in power, and what's with their Nazi obsession?
>>541958094does he tolerate dissent though? He emulates Stalin. does any underline, ex-kgb or not, feel the room to go along with anything other than what he decides?not saying you're wrong even, I imagine most of the Russian deep state is aligned with Putin, but he is a dictator too.
>>541959758*underling
>>541958094You don't get it. The KGB run the Soviet Union at least since Yuri Andropov. Putin was his protege. The KGB handled all the nominations to high ranking party positions much like the CCP has Central Commission for Discipline Inspection (CCDI) which i.e. means it's the supreme supervisory organ that essentially rules the party.As the protege of Andropov, Putin learned everything he needed to know about how to become the supreme supervisor of the KGB and thus the Party. He rules the FSB, United Russia, and de facto all of Russia. His security is insane. When Ville Haapasalo was invited on Putin's yacht, he said it felt all fake. There were divers on both sides of the yacht and the entire meeting felt like an acted script. I'm certain he can get anyone in Russia killed, just like Stalin. All I want to know is who is the "Beria" of Putin. Because that guy rapes children too, you need that kind of kompromat if you let someone that close to you. Could be the official head of the FSB, or someone lurking in the shadows.
>>541959633They all are in power. Those two guys I mentioned definitely take part in the descision-making. Add the rest of top officials, like Lavrov or Belousov, etc.I'm not saying there is some conspiracy of Majestic 12 pulling the strings, I don't know why you saw my post like that.I say, Putin is a part of collective. Rest of the high ministers are not just tagging along, simply doing his bidding. They are as complicit in the current state of affairs.>>541959901Putin had way more modest career in KGB than, again, Bortnikov. He was mostly a clerk, not some Machiavellian devil. Hell, he wouldn't even be president if not for Berezovsky and Sobchak.
>>541958094>Why both sides of the fence push the idea that Putin is the ultimate sovereign?it's just like with HitlerHitler was pushed by the Prussian militarist establishment as kind of a patsy, a "fixer" that brings the different interest groups together. then he went rogue and took over the state fully for himself between 1938-1942 after pushing thru the fuhrerprinzip/verbal decrees in 1934 after the Night of the Long Knives and pushing the frail president Hindenburg to acquiesce to him even harderPutin, likewise, was pushed as that sort of political fixer by the post-communist security apparatus.Unlike Hitler post-1938/1941 he does not have full power tho. He remains a figurehead representing the various corrupt groups, from the old KGB guard to the "new elite" fostered under his regimeAnd you're completely rightJust like Hitler, though, this war and everything will be pushed on him.Only because it's convenient. Then when he inevitably goes, possibly by getting thrown out the window by the "Trumpniks" at FSB, SVR etc. eager to settle and cut some deals with Trump that they want to personally benefit off of, the regime will get replaced just as it happened in Venezuela
>>541960208>Hell, he wouldn't even be president if not for Berezovsky and Sobchak.these guys pushed Putin into politics but, obviously, he wouldn't be president if not for Yeltsin picking him as his already 5th prime minister and deciding to retire in 1999 so that solving Chechnya would be Putin's issue and no longer his
>>541961574sure moshe
>>541961574Yes, exactly! Really elaborate response, thank you.>>541961680I wasn't talking about mechanism of it per se. Meant that Putin probably had no proper ambitions to become the president before he met that bunch. He was way simpler man that people think.
>>541958962Yes. Soviet Union was different in a sense that the people in power were idalists and career politicians. The idology these people have is Russia big America bad.
>>541958094While he can't be centre all the time he's still the top Oligarch who has way more power than most of the rest and just needs to not miss off a big enough fraction of other Oligarchs to be in control.Only the dumbest fucks try and claim "oh man he's totally not as powerful as he clearly is cause there are others like him", as if that's not true in basically every authoritarian state. Not unreachable but like a King would need a considerable amount of Nobles to turn on him.
>>541963049Watch any mainstream western media or some zigger channel, retard. They claim that Putin almost an emperor, when in reality he is closer to Ayatollah.
>>541958217it would probably consistitute as treason by himI don't know if he would be assassinated, but it could create sufficient crisis inside the government and ejected him from power.Most Russians understand this.Fake:>Putin personally came up with the idea of invading UkraineReal:>The idea was floated by Russian military and political elites since 2014, and Ukraine's actions only consolidated this position and caused Kremlin to act on itFake:>If Putin dies or is removed, the war ends.Real:>Put is a manager. He is not the state or the Russian deepstate. The entire Russian military-political leadership (including bureaucrats and advisors) sees Ukraine as an imminent threat that needs to be neutralised at all costs.Fake:>Russia's invasion of Ukraine is illegal and unjustifiedReal:>Objective legality exists only in domestic law. In international law legality is subjective and malleable, this is why every treaty ever signed uses ambiguous language to protect its signatories from becoming cornered. The invasion is legal by Russia's own legal framework, and illegal by Ukraine's legal framework, ambiguous under USA's legal framework. As for whether it was justified - Russia invoked R2P mandate in order to justify it.Fake:>Russia is committing genocide in UkraineReal:>Civilian casualties are exceptionally low for a war of this scale, precisely because Russia avoids causing collateral damage. Smaller wars like Afghanistan, Yugoslavia, Iraq, Gaza had significantly more civilian casualties than Ukraine.Fake:>The war would stop if Russia just stopped at the contact line, or withdrew troopsReal:>The cause of the war is political, not military. Stopping military actions does not solve political causes
>>541962747>Meant that Putin probably had no proper ambitions to become the president before he met that bunch.i doubt Putin had any "ambitions" of his own to become le glorious ruler in the 1990s, he just made himself "available" to the post-communist establishment. and when the moment came, they picked him and he obligedyou're discounting the loyalty to the service in the KGB. it's one big mafia, one for all all for one like the three musketeers
>>541963385>Ukraine's actions only consolidated this position and caused Kremlin to act on itPutin himself is on record stating that Sevastopol is Ukraine and Russia has no claims to it. this was in the 1990s or 2000s I think. obviously russia's continued military presence in Sevastopol in the form of the naval base was up to negotiationthen they did a U-turn, decided they don't want to give up their base in Sevastopol and their influence in Ukraine and went all-in
Every russian poltard knew that Putin is the same kike puppet as Trump lol
>>541964171>Sevastopol Sevastopol is a very small piece of the puzzle.Anyone who knows military history of that region knows that Ukraine's entire territory is Russia's weakest spot, and exposes Russia's most populous and industrial heartland to destruction. Ukraine is where Peter the Great defeated the Swedish Empire, and where USSR defeated Nazi Germany. Ukraine is also where UK managed to have a direct military confrontation with the Russian Empire. All roads lead to Ukraine, and its mainly geography that causes this.
>>541958094Which both sides?If you mean the lowest common denominator-targeting one over here, they do it because plebs can't hold over 5 names of politicians in their heads.If you mean the scaremongering media over there, plastering Putin over everything that ever happens, especially if it's related to Russia, is their job.
>>541958094The communist party never lost control of russia and putin is just a proxy for their rule. For fuck sake Yeltsin was just used to centralize power around the communist deep state, which many people are unable to admit but Yelstins entire life was spent as a hardcore dedicated communist party member.
>>541964677This is primitive thinking that is just imperialistic slop cope designed to enslave people. Geopolitics is an invention of criminals.
>>541964677Ukraine's entire territory is the new Jewish homeland that Russia have promised the Jews.
>>541966253It's true because I've read a pic on the web claiming as much
>>541965236Yeltsin was against communism retard. There is a clip where he learns that Putin brought back then soviet anthem and he looks utterly disgusted. Putin is however a communist.
>>541958094Doesnt more or less every dictator have a bunch of factions they play off against each other so that they can stay on top of it all?Eg Hitler had the SA, SS, airforce army navy interservice rivalry, Gauleiter, Abwehr vs SD, divided leadership over economic policy etc. etc.Yes ideology can bind someones loyalty too but this doesn't tend to protect the dictator in person.
>>541966253>Ukraine's entire territory is the new Jewish homeland that Russia have promised the Jews.that was true before Israel was created post-WW2they were deciding whether to make Ukraine or Israel the new homeland for jews. At the end Israel was chosen, but Ukraine retained substantial jewishness
>>541958094Simple. It allows for plausible deniability.If everyone LARPs as if Putin solely ran the Russian Federation according to his own whims, if they whole system collapses (again), you can just hold reelections and belong to the good guys like nothing happened.
