Socialism was horrible. They forced people to own their houses and apartments.
>>541958258renting makes jewish Holy Gee Dee Pee go up more, you antisemitic bigot.
>>541958258Situation is like this.Lot of us inherited some form of property from communism or our grandparents.They either left us an apartment or some piece of land. Lot of people here sold their property and bought few apartments in a building for their children.The incoming generation wont be able to get anything because there will be no property left to sell.
>>541958555>Parents were able to own a living place because they lived under socialism>their kids won't be able to afford owning home because they live under capitalismNoted
>>541958258nobody could own an apartment in the USSR, retard. you paid rent to the state.
>>541958258you don't understand, goys - speculation makes us free (to pay rent)
>>541958258There's a lot of housing here in economically dead areas. You're also considered an owner if you own a share of the property.I personally own a whole third of an apartment 100 kilometers from the regional center. According to these statistics, i'm a homeowner, lol.
>>541959459Most of these homes were nationalized from their former residents who were either killed of fled the country, then they were given to the apparatchicks who bought the homes for the price of a pack of cigarettes. It was so bad you had commie squatters sitting in your house that a few years ago the EU Court had to make a ruling forcing Croatia to give these homes back to their owners. Yugoslavia built commie blocks where nobody wants to live all the desirable homes were either built recently or way back during Austro-hungary
>>541960841Also, in the Soviet Union, there was almost no "home ownership" unless you built it yourself or with a cooperative. Few people did this. Everyone lived in rented housing, rented in exchange for work. After the fall of the socialist system, this issue was left hanging. Finally, in the early 2000s, the state made it easy to privatize all housing.
>>541958258>The homes in question
>>541961326Thanks commies
>>541958555And during yugoslavia, the state and big companies built buildings and apartments for their workers, which they could get for free if they dont have a realestate (or if they had important friends). Those apartments were then basically handed out when privatization came. Also, you could take a loan out via the company you worked for, inflation ate the loan and you payed the equivalent of a household appliance for your house. Different times...
>>541958258>70% homeownership>rentals dominateThis is your mind on neverending butthurt
Rentals only dominate because of urban cucks and the pajeet invasion
>>541958258>own their home>the government can take control of it for any reason they see fit at any time
>>541958258keep me posted jacek
>when he makes 'being a socialist' his entire personality on social media Your ego wont like this comment
>>541961543That was antisemitic, mortgage should take at least 75% of your salary
>>541961326>>541961359>Photos from 30 years of capitalism as “proof” that socialism does not workYou cannot hate the bourgeois enough
>>541958258so who ownes the homes westerners live in?
>>541961326>BucharestHow the fuck does it look like that? Is it actually gypsies that live there?We have commie blocks everywhere but it's well kept, grass mowed, nice well kept trees everywhere, practically no trash anywhere.How do you live like this?
>>541958258Socialism and capitalism are opposite sides of the same shekel. Both are deracinating and dysgenic while being disgustingly materialist boiling down the human condition on capital alocation. Kosher.
>>541961326exactly. All these eastern euro and baltic states. Their "home" is a one bedroom commie block
>>541961326My grandfather's apartment looks great and sold recently for 300k euros, he got it from the state for free. >>541962097Its our version of skid row. That neighborhood is basically an open air prison/drug addict containment area. Most commie blocks were recently renovated and look kinda good.
>>541959459Yeah, it sure wasnt like people waited literally 15 years for shitty 40m appartmentsOnly the party faggots waited shorter
>>541962058At first it's the bank and after you pay the mortgage the state who rents it to you via real estate taxes. Pretty much the same as in socialism and even worse than in feudalism where the average serf worked less hours than today, had a gold backed currency, homogeneous society, paid no rent and had a fixed income tax payed in a share of whatever goods he produced or by working a set number of days in the lord's and when he died there was no inheritance tax either.
I've learned that socialists are pretty loose when it comes to defining "ownership" in their glorious communist states. Renting from the government on the condition of being a good goy isn't the same thing as owning property/land.
>>541962154Socialism is a state controlled economy.Capitalism is a made up strawman invented by socialists. No one is a capitalist. Capitalism as a concept was only invented to promote socialism.There is endless literature on how to do socialism. There is no big capitalism book. It's not a system, it's not an economic model, it's just taking everything that is bad and calling it capitalism and saying the bad stuff wouldn't happen under socialism.Capitalism is an unhelpful nasty buzzword that makes conversation impossible. You could talk about housing and how the rich buy up all the land and then profit from renting and raising prices. That's a real problem, but then you have people just reduce the problem to ''muh capitalism'' and refuse to engage with the topic because ''muh capitalism.'' You could rape these landlords and make this kind of behavior illegal but socialists just throw up their hands and go ''muh capitalism'' and the conversation ends there.None of these landlords are fucking capitalists. Not one of them has read capitalist theory so they can capitalize the capital better. They just buy land and profit.
>>541962473I used capitalism bc it was the word you guys were using and I didn't want to derail the thread pointing out tha it's at best a misnomer and at worse a power word created by marxists. The normal economic system based on free trade has no theory bc it arose spontaneously after the division of labor while socialism is artificially created. What I refered as capitalism could be better described as patrimonialism where rich people use the power of the state to protect themselves from competition and regulate free trade. Ofc I'm simplifying it a lot here that goes without saying.
>>541962462The definitions are loosened by a language barrier too. You see this posted a lot on /pol/ where shills brag about how 99% of Chinese own their own homes. In English speaking countries it's assumed that if you own a home, it means you own a house, like an actual building is yours. But Chinese do not have a separate word for house and home. It's the same word so someone who has an apartment is a homeowner. And the ownership is also some kind of mistranslation. They have a lifelong lease, they are renting and due to some technicality or language barrier it makes them a home owner as they rent an apartment from the government.
>>541962735Pretty much no modern judicial system allows actual property. Don't pay your land taxes the govt seizes your house, don't pay the car taxes they seize your car, don't pay income tax they seize your bank account. The chinese are just less subtle about it. Real property is allodial property all the rest is just renting.
>>541962723You should always point it out and not conceed on the point.It's like if people started calling you ''cis gendered'' and you just accepted it. No one normal calls themselves cis gender. It's a term invented by faggots.Capitalism is a term invented by faggots. You use their language and you become a faggot.These people have entire books written about strategy where they brag about how they make you adopt their terms and how controlling language is power.
>>541960439Factually incorrect. Working people in USSR would get FREE 1 room appartment after being In a queue for 2-4 years. Families with one child would get 3 room apartments, with two children would get 3-4 room apartments after 1-2 years in a queue.
>>541962880You are correct, the first point of any discussion is agreeing on language. As I said I just focused on the discussion and for that I had to be a little more lax on debate rules
>>541958258If communism was so good, how come noone wants it back?
Our politicians all need to be tortured to death
>>541961326>>541961359what's the problem, romania? you've had capitalism for more than 30 years. what's been going on? didn't you join the EU or something?
>>541962872At a certain level everyone is renting but regular people aren't overly pedantic. You can argue that humans are just clumps of cells and while technically it's right, that's a retarded thing to say.There are differences in ownership. If you own your own land technically on some level you are renting it from the government. If you pay rent technically one some level you are an owner of that apartment as long as your rent is paid. It's not completely black or white.There are certain rights you have if you are recognized as an owner of something. Even if you are paying tax to the government for the land you own, you can sell your land. You can't sell the apartment you rent.There are degrees to how far your ownership extends depending on where you live. In most places if you own a piece of land you can eject people from the land or even kill them for trespassing while in california people can trespass and not get ejected due to squatters rights, which shows how little your ''ownership'' means.I don't think it's useful to argue about whether or not you actually own the land. You don't but in colloquial terms and in a practical sense, you do.
>>541963041if communism was going to fail on its own, then why was there CIA death squads, regime change actions, puppet dictatorships, false flags, invasions, proxy militias, economic hitmen and school of the americas?
>>541958258>Owning your homeWe don't do that in Germany!!!
>>541963041What does communism have to do with it?
>>541963043Wasteful. Send them to mine cobalt, pick up trash, clean latrines, round up niggers for deportation... at least they would be useful for something. When they die turn them into compost.>>541963090Castle doctrine is the concept you speak of. It's a inherited jurisprudence from allodial property. In most of western nations it doesn't exist the same way that in most western nations if you find gold or even dig a well in land that you "own" the mineral rights belong to the state. You said it yourself things need to be said for what they are and owning something isn't the same as renting.
>>5419630971, you didn't answer the question2, the SU/KGB did the same, how come capitalism didn't collapse?
>>541963235>semanticsSocialism=communism. Answer the question (you can't)
My parents owned property even before socialism.I cant afford a house in this economy. Not that I need to, I became a home owner at 18 lol. I wonder who's even buying all the new property?
>>541961326Now post what those buildings looked like back in the evil socialism era.>>541961359That home was built by your great great grandfather and his neighbours out of literal scraps around the forest, and housed generations of well adjusted sex having people... until (You).
>>541958258How come this shithole Greece be bad at every graph and metric I see?
>>541958258>64.5%(X) Doubt
>>541958258>socialism>ownlolif anything, the transition to capitalism turned them into owners, under communism nobody had a deed of ownership
>>541958258The biggest problem nowdays is that not enough buildings are being built and those that are being built…Modern day houses and flats are seen as investments not necessarily as a place to live It’s a sign of I don’t trust banks / firms and their shares You will have few people owning the majority of apartments and renting them Money is being earned not by creating value but siphoning it from those that need a place to live I think a progressive tax system is needed, you can have 2 houses or apartments but each additional one will incrementally cost you more to get It is the only way to save the population from the rat race You cannot save your nation if you hand over most of real estate to the hands of the few elite which grow increasingly distant from the native population The politicians and rich countrymen are not your friends the guy trying to live a decent life is, rich people will never have enough kids to offset the damage they have done by making it harder on the aces Joe to build a life
>>541958258that statistic is misleading. it doesn't mean 95% of people own a home, it means 95% of people live in an owner-occupied household.so firstly, it doesn't account for all the young people living with their parents or grandparents, which is a lot, the average age of leaving the nest is around 30.and secondly, most of the homes in question are tiny commie block apartments or rural houses. very few people own massive american style suburban houses here.
>>541958258Too bad you need government approval to buy a house in Russia if you're from an "unfriendly country", i.e. EU, US, etc. Otherwise all sadboys of /pol/ could just become homeowners by buying a house in rural Russia. I'm sure you'd be able to collect enough money to make it happen since many houses are cheap. Then you would be a homeowner and could experience the perfect happiness that home ownership guarantees.Must be nice to own your home in Ukraine, btw. Especially when it's in one of those soulful villages and towns Russia liberated. :^)
>>541958258Look no further than Canada, it doesn’t work.
>>541962936>would getsure they got the apartments, but it was never theirs, you could not sell it.only under capitalism everyone become a real owner of those apartments.
>>541963296Don’t be a boomer Capitalism did collapse do you see capital building nowadays or just monopolies and oligopolies!?Do you not see subscriptions are coming for everything, ownership is a thing of the past You will own nothing and be happy… they mean it
>>541963690>Money is being earned not by creating value but siphoning it from those that need a place to livetrue true...
>>541963690>>541963858The problem is that most new buildings are built in a few places, that's it.My town hasn't built a single new building since socialism fell.Only renovated old blocs with EU funding.
Have ya'll tried National Socialism yet?Less competition on the housing market and all.Strongly recommended !
>>541963329You're wrong, they're two different systems. Denmark has socialism. USSR never achieved communism
>>541963930I am not talking just about the government I am talking about the private sector building themI see buildings popping out all the time over Zagreb but guess what most are luxury condos a normal person can’t afford Good luck paying 6-8k € per m2I paid for my flat 4k € per m2 and that was in an old building Your median salary here is around 1500€ I couldn’t have done it without support from my family, luckily my family is normal because their parents helped them and now they helped me But not all families are good with each other
>>541958258> Yes, I'm a homeowner> The home in questionOnly the late 80s 4 floor commie blocks were good and comfy. Anything older than that sucks fucking balls in terms layout and build quality.
>>541963858>>541963981>avoiding answering againNah, thats just commie cope. Denmark has a capitalistic, free market model with private property, the means of production are not publicly owned. The SU did achieve communism, its just that communism is shit.I repeat, if it was so good, how come noone wants it back?
>>541963981>Denmark has socialism>Real communism has never been triedOh please. The Nordic model is a free-market capitalist democracy that has socialist elements.
>>541958258that's a lie, banks own the home until you pay the mortgage.
>>541963854>sure they got the apartments, but it was never theirs, you could not sell it.>only under capitalism everyone become a real owner of those apartments.if you sell it then you don't own it anymore
>>541961953SOVLbest place on Earth
>>541963041what ordinary people want is irrelevant, the ruling elite decides the structure of the system
>>541958258commieblock does not qualify as a home, it's soviet prison barracks
