Why should I believe that Lindsey Clancy was sane BEYOND a reasonable doubt? In Massachusetts when a Not Guilty by reason of Insanity (NGRI) plea is raised, the prosecution is basically required to prove beyond a reasonable doubt the defendant was sane (or sane enough): https://www.mass.gov/doc/9200-lack-of-criminal-responsibility/downloadShe had taken 13 different medications (although not all at the same time):>Timeline: Lindsay Clancy was prescribed 13 different medications for symptoms including depression and psychosishttps://www.bostonglobe.com/2026/07/27/metro/lindsay-clancy-timeline-medications-13/She called a suicide hotline (but was turned away): https://www.newsnationnow.com/crime/lindsay-clancy-turned-away-twice-after-calling-crisis-line/She checked herself into a mental hospital: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/lindsay-clancy-trial-spotlights-psychiatric-hospital-stay-before-she-killed-her-3-childrenA psychiatrist and a psychologist examined her and found she was suffering from Bipolar Disorder and Postpartum Psychosis:https://www.cnn.com/2026/08/21/us/lindsay-clancy-trial-defense-rests Two misconceptions worth addressing: This isn't a first of its kind case. Men have also been found not guilty due to being insane at the time of their crime (even in other states): https://www.kcci.com/article/iowa-courts-matthew-schleier-not-guilty-sons-murder-insanity/71142494In the USA, people who are found Not Guilty by reason of Insanity (NGRI) are sent to a mental hospital. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/lindsay-clancy-murder-trial-verdict-outcomes/>If Clancy is found not guilty by reason of mental disease or defect, she won't face prison time, but she also won't go free. >"She would then be committed to a state mental health facility, where she is now, indefinitely," CBS News legal analyst Caroline Polisi said on "CBS Mornings" Monday. Clancy is currently being held at Tewksbury Hospital.
She told her family she was worried she'd hurt her children (and some of the meds were causing her mental damage):https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2026/aug/17/lindsay-clancy-trial-mother-witness-testimony>Clancy, Musgrove testified to the court in Plymouth, Massachusetts, had asked if she could sleep in her mother’s bed and told her she felt the medication she had been prescribed for postpartum depression were “destroying” her mind.>Musgrove also disclosed that on one occasion her daughter had approached her and Lindsay’s former husband, Patrick Clancy, and said: “I want to tell you guys something”.>“She said she had thoughts of harming the children,” Musgrove testified.https://edition.cnn.com/2026/08/01/us/lindsay-clancy-trial-patrick-testimony>Lindsay Clancy’s “big spiral” began when she started taking a new antipsychotic medication around early December 2022, her ex-husband testified. Around that time, she told him she was suicidal and had “intrusive thoughts” about harming the children, he said.>“She described thoughts of hurting the kids or them having some sort of ailment,” he said, adding he wasn’t concerned for their safety because she didn’t show “any intention” of harming them.She also told her doctors about suicidal thoughts and that the meds were making her loopy:>The month before she killed her three children, Lindsay Clancy sent a flurry of messages to a psychiatric nurse practitioner, warning she had “intrusive thoughts” about suicide and feared they were caused by new medications, according to testimony Tuesday in Plymouth Superior Courthttps://www.bostonglobe.com/2026/08/11/metro/lindsay-clancy-day-11-court-testimony-jollotta/
She attempted suicide in a variety of ways after killing her kids:https://www.yahoo.com/news/us/articles/witness-offers-details-cuts-lindsay-150111930.html>A physician assistant who treated what he called “severe” cuts on Lindsay Clancy’s wrists in January 2023 took the stand at Clancy’s murder trial Wednesday morning, testifying about one of the case’s key issues — the gravity of her injuries.[...]>On the stand, Negri said he was assigned to repair the cuts on Clancy's wrists during his shift at Brigham and Women's Hospital on Jan. 25, 2023 — the day after Clancy's children were killed and she attempted to take her own life. Clancy had cuts on both her right and left wrists that were "severe and deep enough" to require sutures, he said. The cuts on her neck were superficial and did not require medical intervention, he said.>The wounds on Clancy's wrists were not actively bleeding and had been dressed and covered before Negri arrived, he said.>Negri told jurors he sutured a 3-centimeter deep cut on Clancy's right wrist and a 2-centimeter deep cut on her left wrist. The remaining cuts were flushed and closed with Steri-Strips, he said. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/lindsay-clancy-chronicled-her-desperation-and-brain-fog-in-her-diary-before-the-killings>Lindsay Clancy remains paralyzed from the waist down because of the fall.>In the hospital two days later, when a forensic psychologist asked Clancy how she felt, she responded: "horrified." >She also asked if she had a lawyer and whether her body and legs were broken. She was intubated and could only communicate through written messages on a whiteboard, the psychologist testified.
Some more things worth addressing. Psychotic episodes aren't 24/7. The duration of them varies by person. https://cedarhillbh.com/how-long-does-psychosis-last-navigating-the-spectrum-of-duration-and-recovery-factors/>How long psychosis lasts is really different for each person. Some people have a psychotic episode that’s short, a single experience lasting just a few days. Others find it continues for weeks, months, or happens over and over as part of an ongoing mental health problem. https://fremonthospital.com/blog/how-long-does-psychosis-last/>From Hours to Weeks: A Timeline for Different Psychotic Episodes>For many, the duration of a psychotic episode is surprisingly brief, lasting from just a few hours to a couple of days.
either no one is interest in discussing facts or people only click on threads with her face on the OP.
Fuck off back to bluesky you fucking faggot.Or kill yourself, you glownigger sack of shit.
>>542003910>but she also won't go free. How long would the prison sentence be?How long is she required in the mental hospital with showing unusually fast signs of recovery?
>>542003982The why not help her out with that?
>>542003910Have other women experienced what she did and not kill their children?
>>542005064she would be required to be there for 6 months from her sentencing. She would be eligble for release after that, though most sent there stay for years.
>>542003910>entire case boils down to a foids excuses that are impossible to prove or disprove because it was all in her headshe strangled her children, the crazy defense is a pathetic excuse. Lynch her publicly without a hood on live TV so everyone in the country can see what happens to a face when it is strangled. Clancy already knows. Ya know, from when she strangled her children.
>>542005264So choice is between life in prison or 6+ months in hospital, yet she's "not free"
>>542005275>entire case boils down to a foids excuses that are impossible to prove or disprove because it was all in her headit's not impossible to prove. she's got a lot of evidence supporting her claim.
>>542005570>prove>evidence of reaching out for helpI didn't get help either and didn't kill people over it. Prove severity necessitated the actions or you're just being weaker than reasonable
>>542005537she'll be out in 6 months if she gets not guilty by reason of insanity. all she'd have to do is top acting sucidal. They apparently think she is already healed from being psychotic.i imagine postpartum is no longer a concern if you already murdered your kids.
Why should i believe that insane people are beyond retribution? Some crimes can only be done by an insane mind. You'll find a truckload of schizophrenics in any US jails.
>>542005715>evidence of reaching out for helpShe was also examined by doctors.>I didn't get help either and didn't kill people over it. That's just an anecdote. If one single crazy person didn't kill someone that doesn't imply that killing someone means you are sane.>Prove severity necessitated the actions or you're just being weaker than reasonableThe Prosecution has to prove she was sane beyond a reasonable doubt in MA
>>542005940--> >>542005835
>>542003910Massachusetts demands the prosecution prove that she was insane beyond a reasonable doubt. Her defense doesn't need to prove she was sane. Her defense only needs to throw sufficient reasonable doubt into the prosecution's case. Sorry anon, your whole post proceeded based on a faulty premise.
>>542003910So call her insane if it makes you feel better. She still killed her cubs. a diagnosis doesn't change the facts.
>>542006168>She still killed her cubsA Leo? I doubt that
>>542006063uh you mixed up insane and sane
>>542005940by your standards of evidence, soomeone could just start seeing a shrink report that they are crazy then go kill whoever they want and get it attributed to insanity. What you are not grasping is there is no way to prove anything she said was true. All of your evidence is conversations she had with doctors. just words.
>>542003910Massachusetts state law deserves to be invalidated if a child murderer is set free because of it. I'm a white anglosaxon protestant, so my opinion on the spirit of English common law is more correct than 99% of this board due to genetic memory.
>>542003910why should it matter?
>>542006063You have it backwards. Defense is arguing that she's insane (and therefore not culpable), prosecution is trying to prove otherwise.
>>542006234No, I'm pointing out that you did.>The central dispute at trial was whether she was criminally responsible for her behaviors at the time. Her attorneys argued that postpartum psychosis had deprived her of the capacity Massachusetts law requires for criminal responsibility. Prosecutors argued that, despite serious mental-health problems, she understood the wrongfulness of her actions and deliberately carried them out.>That distinction matters because Massachusetts law did not require Clancy to prove that she lacked criminal responsibility. Once the issue was properly before the jury, the burden remained with the Commonwealth to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that she was criminally responsible.https://www.jurist.org/commentary/2026/09/eleven-jurors-no-verdict-what-the-lindsay-clancy-mistrial-decided/Source in the Jurist.org article:https://law.justia.com/cases/massachusetts/supreme-court/1967/352-mass-544-2.html
>>542006439>Defense is arguing that she's insane (and therefore not culpable), prosecution is trying to prove otherwise.That's my position. You've stated my position back to me.
>>542003910>Why should I believe that Lindsey Clancy is sane beyond a reasonable doubt?You're already brain-malfunctioning. Sanity should be assumed absent evidence. But if more is needed, insane people don't commit heinous crimes and then immediately attempt suicide to avoid shame, guilt, and punishment. They're not even aware they did anything that should warrant those things.>She had taken 13 different medicationsWe also prosecute drunk drivers who kill. It does not matter that the drug impairs judgement... your judgement to take the drug is what counts.>She checked herself into a mental hospitalAnother point showing sanity. The insane aren't aware that anything's wrong enough that it should be fixed, aren't aware that a hospital might be able to treat it, and so forth.
>>542006506You said that in Massachusetts the prosecution needs to prove that she's insane beyond a reasonable doubt. >>542006063>Massachusetts demands the prosecution prove that she was insane beyond a reasonable doubtBut the opposite is true. The prosecution was trying to prove that she is SANE so she would be sent to jail.
>>542006577This case is only a thing because women can't be reasoned with, and betas cater to women, and, sociopaths love money.>>542006660Oh you're retarded, okay. Carry on.
>>542006506Well it sounded like your position was>Massachusetts demands the prosecution prove she was insanesince that's what you posted
>>542006577Alcohol and driving isn't something that is ever prescribed to you by doctors, as awesome as that might be.
>>542006748>you're retardedYou fucked up. It's okay. Just accept it and we'll move on.
>>542006063>Massachusetts demands the prosecution prove that she was insane beyond a reasonable doubtWhy would the prosecution want to prove her insane That doesn't make sense
>>542003910Benefit of the doubt only applies if you did or not.
>>542003910You're not a juror or judge. What you think doesn't mean shit faggot
>>542006964I was wrong.
>>542006964However i want to add it will end up in a 49% to 51% and so on.That will lead to not given an accurate gauge of the situation.
>>542006955Don't worry about it. They're one of those women that can't be reasoned with.
>>542007144If i assume only the best possible solution of the defendant in each possible scenaro then i will ultimately not arrive at the correct solution.
>>542007219But then again in the entirety of that i was also only given a special case.However that is a little bit blind.
>>5420039101. None of her psychiatrists diagnosed her with psychosis2. She claimed to have "intrusive thoughts" about hurting them, that is not psychosis as she is able to recognize them as intrusive and shows premeditation3. Her search history in the days before showed her searching the symptoms of psychosis, which psychotic people do not do. She also had searches pointing to premeditation like "where is the carotid artery?" 4. She had a phone call while doing it and sounded perfectly fine5. She waited until Patrick was gone6. She no longer had psychosis again afterwardsHow much more evidence do you really want?
>>542004745the facts are she wasn't taking the medicine as the bottles were nearly full, she expressed hatred towards her son because she blames him for ruining her vagina, she planned it out and she never told professional help about her ideations. the fact is people don't act on voices right away, it doesn't happen, it's a slow build up. she planned the murders, carried them out one after another while she sent her husband off for food and even called him as she was killing them to make sure he didn't come home
The most important thing this trial exposed is that the American justice system is an absolute clown tier circus.You have>muh jury of peers (but we can remove jurors we don't like)>states where a murderer can just say "but I was le insane, can you prove me wrong?" And the prosecution unironically has to lmao >celebrity defense lawyers>trials being streamed like it's fucking reality TVAnd much more
>>542007736another self righteous goyman faggot, what else is new. kill yourself, retard
>>542007937You're seething because I'm right
If you are truly insane to the point you have no agency, you don't know you are insane. You aren't going around like "ohhhh my godddd i hear le voices and they are making me le do things oh godddd I was driving my car and thought about jumping out while driving im sooooo insane". This woman resented her kids because she believed they destroyed her life. She even outright said she hated one of them. She planned it all, and like women commonly do, broke out the crocodile tears and fake suicide attempts to sway idiots.
The actual question here is why should someone be spared life imprisonment for horrific crimes just because they aren't of sound mind? The justice system working like this is a symptom of an insane society.
>>542003910The tragedy is that her suicide attempts were unsuccessful.Anyone who kills children, regardless of reason or circumstance, should not be permitted to live.No exceptions.
>>542003910You don't You just have to ask is their a case where killing your children should let you walk free of consequence. Basically if it's not ok for everyone to use this excuse, then it's not a real excuse now is it? >found she was suffering from ..Do you honestly think that when you are paid to be an expert that you are going to be saying anything that your client doesn't benefit from.Again, doesn't matter. If you are good with her walking because insane, then you MUST find that all crazy kooks who kill get to walk free. By obvious reasons, anyone who kills in non self-defense or revenge for something evil is a crazy kook. Let them roam the streets.Hopefully you see this isn't about supporting depression treatment, that does need to be handled, but setting an "example" isn't part of that solution. They psyopped you by conflating finding her guilty with not caring about depression.
>>542008759Anybody can go crazy. It's not a choice. Her actions disgust me, but punishing her doesn't seem to serve much of a purpose if she is actually insane.
>>542009205That's why we have late term abortions for truly insane fetuses.
She is a fucking liar and all these 'professionals' supporting her are liars...an agenda is at play here and it's disgusting...Rope all of these sick evil fuckers...
>>542003910None of this is as relevant as the public response to the case.
I don't believe insanity is any excuse for a cri.e or murder...I think this insanity plea deal is bullshit and no matter the sanity or insanity they all should get the same punishment...jail or death period...These insane fucks cannot be fixed in a nuthouse anyway,they are unfixable and need to pay for their crime and get real punishment.Even a retard should get the rope.Enough of this weak bullshit fucking up society and letting psychos run free to kill again and again..
>>542003910Insanity Plea is supposed to be an Affirmative defense.Additionally, submitting an insanity defense includes forfeiting the criminal case.She's supposed to be guilty, and then be making a case for why and how she is "too insane" to take a normal sentence.
>>542009560We have them for the most extreme psychopaths and other anti-social freaks who understand what they are doing to be wrong, but don't care. Like if you are incapable of understanding that other people exist so everyone else wants you to be removed from society. If you aren't capable of processing reality because some retard Somali doctor prescribes you something they shouldn't it's not the same thing.>inb4 you shouldn't trust anyone ever especially doctorsOkay, sure, but even paranoid freaks need normalfags to do that so society can mostly function and we can live in relative peace.
I don't believe she was insane beyond a reasonable doubt but she send away her husband conveniently and then kill her children in a very systematic planned cold calculated way...The bitch needs the death penalty not sympathy...
>>542010237no actually, a lot of insane people who know what they are have gotten off because of le insanity shit, and if you believe her horse shit defense, you could probably get scammed by an indian you are so naive>omg I am having le intrusive thoughts and hearing le voices i must kill this kid i said i hated but I didnt know i was doing it btwWhat a load of shit
"insane" people who commit crimes ahould be taken to a field and shot in the back of the head
>>542005064She has to be convicted to be sentenced to anything, retards. If the prosecution decides to not retry her because they think they can't get a conviction then she's a free woman.
>>542009205What purpose does letting someone who would strangle three of their own children live serve, insane or not? It's not merciful, as they are a blight on others. It's not about the sanctity of life, as they have proven they do not understand this sanctity.
>>542008759Ship the crazy and crippled into the proximity of the worse people imaginable by the hundreds of thousands.Eventually befriend or become the crazy and crippled yourself.What could go wrong?
>>542006454that's what I was saying in the OP
>>542003910You can't plan murders like this out when you're in a state of psychosis. It simply is not possible. A murder by an insane person is never premeditated, and is always spontaneous. That's the nature of insanity.Not that it matters, even if the defendant is psychotic, that's akin to a rabid animal logically, and rabid animals are killed.Why should anyone care what she felt or what her mental state was? She killed her three kids, and PROVED beyond a shadow of a doubt whatsoever that she is a deadly human being that should be killed to prevent any possibility she will kill again.Killing small children is also particularly bad because they pose no danger. Also, killing children negatively impacts the survival of the species.Also, she has soulless black eyes and looks like a demon or a witch.In short, there is absolutely no reason to waste time, energy, or money here. Publicly kill her(to set an example) and move on.
If you all knew what "psychosis" and "schizophrenia" really was you would throw up in your lap and go cry yourself to sleep. Take heed of the targeted individual and gangstalking threads, your life may soon depend on it. Learn how to defend yourself against the deep state and their technological manufacture of terror through weaponized mental illness. There's a reason these people rarely pass for "crazy" as the glownigger simulations to present them as such are usually rather temporary.
>>542011049Ed Gein was a serial killer who was found to insane in court and sent to a mental asylum: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ed_Gein
>>542011299He should have been killed. Publicly. By fire, or short-drop hanging. No long-drop.
>>542011655they dont understand that we dont care if it's a man or woman. they should die if they are defective and killing people for no reason. that's why that particular tranny keeps bringing up cases about men. He can't imagine that some people don't have ingroup preference so strong that they are willing to let evil people live and defend them
The judge declared a mistrial, so the defense will probably move to dismiss the charges. She will be released, but never exonerated.The law is pretty clear on cases of homicide, less so when it comes to sanity. But all it takes is one juror to poison the case, since the jury’s decision must be unanimous.
>>542010479>nooooo we need to be absolutely draconian and trust no one about anything everOkay, whatever, fag. We're not going to see eye to eye on this. Maybe you'll never have any mental problems and you'll never need to worry about being a self righteous absolutist on this.Like no, we can't just take everyone's word for everything, but if a jury of 12 people cannot agree that person really was insane when they did some immoral act, then we should all be able to live with it. That's pretty reasonable.
>>542010861Lack of intent. We punish people because they did bad things while knowing and understanding that they are bad things. If someone doses you with LSD and you run out into the street naked while high on drugs then that's the fault of the person who intended to harm you, and not your fault.
>>542003910>Why should I believe that Lindsey Clancy is sane beyond a reasonable doubt?Was she mentally fucked up? Yes. But from what I've gathered on this case, I can easily say that she "knew or understood in some meaningful way – that her conduct was either illegal or wrong" beyond a reasonable doubt, which is enough for the insanity defense to be invalid.Suicidality, bipolar, depression etc. are NOT ENOUGH to claim insanity. You need some kind of psychosis to successfully claim it.The tricky part is, when you're psychotic, it is essentially impossible to come up with a plan like she did, with the attention to detail like calling the store, making sure there are multiple pickups, calculating the timeline etc. while not exhibiting any disturbing symptoms.>A psychiatrist examined her and found she was suffering from Postpartum Psychosisthe ONE psychiatrist who claims this examined her FOUR MONTHS after she killed her kids.To make things funnier, he himself wrote a book about command hallucinationsbeing incredibly easy to fabricate.
>>542011990No leaf, people not buying someone's made up story is not draconian. She clearly knew her husband could stop her from killing the kids which is why she sent him off, and if she had enough agency to realize that, she had enough agency to not do it at all. She also commented about how she resented one of her kids. You are just a sucker.
>>542012405>The tricky part is, when you're psychotic, it is essentially impossible to come up with a plan like she did,>>542012608>She clearly knew her husband could stop her from killing the kids which is why she sent him off, and if she had enough agency to realize that, she had enough agency to not do it at all.How do you know this?>>542010061>Insanity Plea is supposed to be an Affirmative defense.That's not how it works in Massachusetts though.
>>542013224why did she wait until right after she left? why did she not kill them while he was there?
>>542013755after he left*
>>542012608>i don't trust anyone about anything everOkay. That's why the jury is 12 people and not one paranoid retard who doesn't understand why that is the case.
>>542013875you have no actual argument besides attacking my character so why even bother continuing. you look like a retard.
>>542013224>That's not how it works in Massachusetts though.you keep falling back to this defense, which only highlights that you don't have any argument and Massachusetts is simply retarded to have this in their legal code.
>>542003910>She had taken 13 different medications (although not all at the same time)Totally false, she had a total of 13 medication changes over the time period. Most of these were dosage changes for the same medication or medication swaps because she specifically wanted to stop the prior medication. None of these medications were antipsychotics with the exception of quetiapine which she was taking a low-dose of as a sleep aid, not prescribed for a psychotic disorder.>She called a suicide hotline (but was turned away)Again, totally false. She called a private crisis line in order to try to shop another doctor and was denied inpatient treatment because she didn't have an actual plan to kill herself. She did not call, what people normally call, the national "suicide hotline">She checked herself into a mental hospitalAnd she voluntarily checked herself out after claiming she was asymptomatic.>A psychiatrist and a psychologist examined her and found she was suffering from Bipolar Disorder and Postpartum Psychosis:Both of these met with her AFTER she committed the murders and AFTER she met with her lawyer and were scheduled by the lawyer. They never saw her prior to the murders. She also does not meet the criteria for bipolar which requires 2 documented manic episodes per year or more.>she won't face prison time, but she also won't go free.Clancy commited the murders 3 and a half years ago. She has not had ANY psychiatric issues in the entire meantime. The idea that you would send a completely sane and asymptomatic woman to a locked ward with intractable schizophrenics is nonsensical. It's like going to the hospital because you sprained your ankle 4 years ago.>She told her family she was worried she'd hurt her children (and some of the meds were causing her mental damage):Conveniently she never told a single one of the 6+ psychiatric professionals she was seeing prior to the murders any of this.
>>5420039101. Did she do it? Y/N2. Did she know it was wrong to do it? Y/N3. Is it just to prosecute an adult for murder? Y/NIt is not complex. Two facts, and the application of law.
>>542013948>stop you're making me feel badI don't give a fuck about your character. You are acting like an irrational and emotional woman about this issue.
>>542003910She was sane enough to strangle her own kids, regret the decision, then attempt and fail to kill herself. Now, once again, she attempts to flee her accountability. Just like every woman does. Just look at her supporters. Blaming other people. Blaming voices. Instead of blaming her. Woman as a whole need a stiff reality check and she is the perfect representative to give it to. Accountability needs to be delivered in the form of death. If you think otherwise, your a cuck and have not been around women in general for any length of time to understand how they are...yes ALL of them.
>>542014366>NO YOU CANT MAKE ME HAVE AN ACTUAL ARGUMENT! YOU'RE A WOMANsays they guy crying about a murderer possibly going to prison for life.
>>542014560Your argument is that it's a horrible act and you personally don't believe her and therefor no one should. >possiblyAnd we let juries decide that. Not me. Not you. You have demonstrated that you don't understand this concept. That's fine. You're not in charge.
>>542014988Seems the jury couldn't reach an agreement that she was insane because of one guy. So sad. You should continue crying about it.
>>542015122Oh no! I guess she's not convicted of any crime. Maybe Justice was served. How will I ever survive!?
>>542015349your fat boomer boy had a melty today because he knows a second trial isnt gonna go her way. So sad. Ill collect more of your tears in a few months.
>>542015441>some fat guy is as upset as melol okay. I guess. Is that supposed to mean something to me?
>>542015464you seem pretty upset. calm down, ma'am.
>>542014112>She has not had ANY psychiatric issues in the entire meantime. How do you know this? Keep in mind she's currently being held in a hospital (and almost certainly being heavily medicated).
>>542015502>y-y-yeah well you're upsetI see. Do you need the last word? I can stop replying. Make it a really good one. Call me a double nigger or something.
>>542015568>i-i will stop replying anytime im not madOk ma'am
Lindsay Clancy was unhappyThat being a mother wasn't all sappySo she took matters into her handsAnd snapped her kids' necks with exercise bands
>>542014112>Conveniently she never told a single one of the 6+ psychiatric professionals she was seeing prior to the murders any of this.Most people hide things from their doctors.For instance, about suicide:>Therapy clients often experience suicidal thoughts, and there is evidence that nearly one in three clients lie to their therapist about it (Blanchard & Farber, 2018). https://cebtohio.com/why-people-lie-about-thoughts-of-suicide/>In another retrospective study of hospital patients who died by suicide, 78% denied having suicidal thoughts in the week before taking their own lives (Busch, Fawcett, & Jacobs, 2003).https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4553038/>As many as 93 percent of therapy clients lie to their therapist at least occasionally.https://archive.is/s8blp
>>542003910Because anything other than literal babbling insanity is unfalsifiable nonsense. MA introduced that retarded inverse burden of proof because they know it would be impossible to prove insanity in a case like Clancy’s so they inb4’d one of the worst rules I’ve ever heard of in my life and make the prosecution try to prove that a psychotic freak was “sane” when she acted like a psychotic freak. Everyone who commits a grievous anti social act has something wrong with them. Only people who have a legitimate disconnection from reality are meaningfully insane. So the proof that she was sane is simply that she’s not a babbling lunatic who thinks interdimensional demons possessed her kids and she had to excise them or some shit. Her sad girl drugs and suicide hotline calls mean jack fucking shit to anyone with a brain. She was aware enough to meticulously plot out the isolation and execution of her own children and then make some half baked, pathetic attempt to kill herself. You can’t do any of that if you’re actually insane.
>>542007458Source?
>muh freedomsthis is the most feminist cucked faggot cunt shit ive seen in years cant believe theres even an argument about her guilt and responsibility lmao#believewomen #cuckSA#feministniggerworshippers
>>542015839Inshallah.
>>542013755>>542013773Why would that mean she was sane? How do you know a person in a psychotic episode incapable of doing that? It's state of delusion and hallucination. Neither of which on their own prevents someone from basic planning. it's not someone actively going berserk.
542015687So you go from gish galloping studies here to assume they all apply to her and her mental state before the murders542016040>>542016040To saying you can't assume her mental state based off her actions before and during the murders several times. Weird. I guess only you can make assumptions.
>>542016494>To saying you can't assume her mental state based off her actions before and during the murders several timesI didn't say that. I asked how you knew something.
>>542016559Im asking you how you know the studies you cited apply to her. Go on.
>>542006213This. That's the kind of shit a gemini would do. Do these faggots even know anything? Probably all a bunch of male virgos
>>542016643answer my question first.
>>542016665No thanks
>>542003910blah blah blahshe was locked in like a professional executioner when strangling her children to death but when it came to taking her own life she half assed it so hard. lied to her doctors about her symptoms. the bitch shoulda been shot in the head right after trial, dump her body in the dirty bury her and be done with it
>>542016494Is your standpoint that someone in a psychotic episode is incapable of planning anything? How far does that extend?
>>542016710>No thanksI can answer yours, but I will guess you can't answer mine.>>542016643>Im asking you how you know the studies you cited apply to her. Go on.She didn't mention suicidal thoughts to her doctors or at the psychiatric hospital, but she did mention it to a crisis/suicide hotline. She did attempt suicide after killing her kids. This shows it is applicable to her.More broadly, if the vast majority of the people lie to their therapists, that means it's normal for people to avoid mentioning real symptoms to their therapist. If 90%+ of people do something it's more likely than not that any specific person also does it. this shows its probably applicable.
>>542016914Is your standpoint that someone having "a psychotic episode" is always unable to differentiate between right and wrong?
>>542016649>overly familiar with the stereotypesI know what you are nigga
>>542017232It depends on what their delusions and hallucinations are.
>>542008552Having gone through my mental health journey with psychosis, there are times where you absolutely do go around asking everyone you can think of for help, and oftentimes they either think you're just nattering or being a hypochondriac (as they often do, I've got my own theories on how much psychosis is caused by your support network being terrible at handling you in particular), and then that thing absolutely can boil over.There is part of me that wants to condemn her, but as much of me is also sympathetic to her claims.Mental health is incredibly complex in that unlike other acquired health conditions where it mostly comes down to physical input into your body, mental health has to do with all our other senses as well, what we're hearing, watching etc. our living situation, there seems to be a genetic factor, but how much of that "genetic factor" is just the family's personal way of handling their family member failing?The problem is the mental health experts who are charged with treating the problems continue to look at it as a purely physical input problem, and will then keep physically inputting ridiculously powerful drugs until you present as agreeable at the 40-minutes-max that they see you every three months.They talk about people "falling through the gaps" a lot in the mental health system, the defense is making that argument. I don't think it's an unreasonable argument based on the evidence they've presented.
>>542017514she lied to her doctorspsychologists don't just prescribe drugs, matter of fact they can't, only psychiatrists canthe prosecutionsaid it best. she was "seeking help" but wanted it HER WAY.
>>542017502So we have absolutely no evidence she was ever having delusions, but we are supposed to believe her after the murders? To how many people would you apply this standard to exactly? Nikolas Cruz, the parkland shooter also said he had delusions and heard voices after he committed his mass shooting. Do you think your principle should be applied to him?
>>542003910if your default stance is that she's insane, then the default stance is to put her in jail.
>>542017698how would one give evidence they have delusions?
>>542003910It's been social fopaux to characterize women as evil since the witch trials, but I think that was a mistake.
>>542003910the length of this post indicates that women are not winning todayhttps://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FgxacX72snA&ra=m
>>542017698>So we have absolutely no evidence she was ever having delusions, but we are supposed to believe her after the murders? To how many people would you apply this standard to exactly? Nikolas Cruz, the parkland shooter also said he had delusions and heard voices after he committed his mass shooting. Do you think your principle should be applied to him?I haven't examined his case, so I can't comment on it much. He didn't enter an insanity plea. He was not offered a plea deal by the prosecutors either; He just decided to plead guilty.
>>542017762Maybe a history of having psychotic episodes confirmed by her doctors? Which we dont have. Same thing with the school shooter i just mentioned. Should he have just been put in a mental hospital?
>>542017859>He didn't enter an insanity plea. He was not offered a plea deal by the prosecutors either; He just decided to plead guilty.Try to put on your thinking cap and imagine that he HAD entered an insanity pleaWould his claim to have heard voices now create a requirement for the prosecution to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he had NOT heard voices?
>>542017859>He didn't enter an insanity plea. He was not offered a plea deal by the prosecutors either; He just decided to plead guilty.That says more about the investigation by the police and his representation than anything. The police immediately suspected he was making things up. He only had public defenders. Now who is Lindsay's defender?
>>542017859Also what this anon said >>542017994
>>542018076>>542017994>Would his claim to have heard voices now create a requirement for the prosecution to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he had NOT heard voices?insanity pleas work different in florida than in massachusetts. its an affirmative defense there:https://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0700-0799/0775/Sections/0775.027.html
>>542018240so basically you think she is innocent because the law is different then? Not because she was actually insane? If nikolas was tried in Massachusetts, he should have been not guilty by reason of insanity because he claimed to hear voices and see delusions?
It really is a shame about the eighth amendmentThis bitch will never get the punishment she deserves, that is to say, the full extent of torture possible while keeping her fully alive and aware.Or maybe let her be a plaything for some felons.
>>542018358Don't care. Plenty of insane people don't run around killing their own kids.
>>542003910You should believe she was sane beyond a reasonable doubt because during all the supposed encounters with various doctors and psychiatrists, she was never committed. Either this suggests widespread and egregious medical malpractice in multiple institutions, or it requires one individual to have malus of forethought to make disingenuous claims of insanity as a defense for the plotting to kill her children. One of these ideas requires multiple layers of malpractice and negligence, the other one just requires the murderer to have planned this in advance and been found to be dishonest or her claims not serious enough by all of the various medical practitioners.You'd have to believe in a widespread medical conspiracy in order to think no medical personnel could have foreseen and stopped this, which is just not logical beyond a reasonable doubt. You could perhaps reasonably doub the sound judgment of 1 or 2 physicians, but like a dozen? Not a reasonable assumption
>>542005940Prosecution doesnt have to prove a negative. They only have to prove their own claim - that she committed murderm the defense has the burden to their own claim in the positive, that she was insane beyond a reasonable doubt. One would have to assume that with all her various interactions with medical personnel that someone would have done something, because its mandatory to report things like this and have people committed. What Lindsay defense claims are are tantamount to accusing the medical profession as a whole as engaging in a conspiracy against her - which is itself insane
>>542003910There is no proof she had no agency or that she did it in a fit of delusion. She planned it and showed calculation. The murders were done deliberately. She didn't just hit the kids in the head, or grab a kid and throw him or her across the room. She murdered them intentionally using violence that required time. She wasn't acting incoherently. It was all very deliberate. Chris Watts was deliberate too. Why would a sane father do what Watts did? How is Watts' behavior not insane beyond reasonable doubt? He even reported his last exchanges with his scared little girls. >his eldest daughter Bella (age 4) said, "Daddy, no!" in her final moments before he suffocated her. >Prior to this final plea, Bella asked her father if "the same thing gonna happen to me as Cece?" referring to her younger sister, Celeste (age 3), whom Watts had just killedHow can a sane father do what he did? Therefore Watts should've been sent to psychiatric care and then released when cured? Just because he was undiagnosed doesn't make it sane behavior.Allowing people to escape murders like this with the insanity defense obliterates any meaningful concept of insanity. All crimes of this nature go against basic sanity, Generally people suffering from bipolar never kill anyone so why would it be an excuse here? If bipolar is an excuse, why are not all bipolars locked in mental asylums since they clearly must pose an immediate risk to the lives of people around them? All of these diagnoses are just an attempt to use them as a get-out-of-jail-free card. Her behavior proves she knew what she was doing. Just like Watts. The only meaningful insanity defense is being out of your mind and acting incoherently. If you allow insanity defense for acts that show deliberation and calculation throughout, you open a can of worms that leads to injustice on scale. It becomes a game of who can most convincingly play the part to get a freebie to murder.
>>542003910you are a fucking idiot
>>542018981>Prosecution doesnt have to prove a negativeThey do in massachusetts.>>542006454
>>542003910I haven't been following this. Has she shown any suicidal attitudes since after the incident? Has the voice in her head returned?
>>542020444>Has she shown any suicidal attitudes since after the incident? Has the voice in her head returned?She's been in mostly good spirits, except maybe a bit peeved when people press her on the whole child murder thing, she gets a bit indignant and asks why everyone is still hung up on that and calls them obsessed.
>>542020443That just seems an impossible task. How can you prove that someone was sane at a specific time in the past
>>542003910In the first place, trying to prove sanity is as retarded as trying to prove innocence. The default should be assuming sanity and innocence. Trying to prove beyond a reasonable doubt someone is innocent would lead to condemnation of innocents, the justice system is meant to protect innocents. Trying to prove without a reasonable doubt someone is sane would lead to guilty people getting off by insanity, again failing to protect innocents. To stand trial in the first place presumes rationality, if they can't reason there's really no reason for them to be responsible for anything, in the same way we don't try to hold cougars accountable for killing people, we just eliminate them to, yet again, protect innocents. Even if that's the law, the purpose of a jury isn't to follow the law, that's the job of people who study law. Why do they bring in people who don't know common folk who don't know any law? The point is fill in the cracks where law fails, where the law isn't justice, because ultimately, it's right and wrong that determine the law, not the other way around. With all that being said, you're not addressing the fact that these attacks were premeditated, that just because she was prescribed a bunch of medication doesn't mean really mean much, if anything that's damning against her because despite whatever reservations you just have against meds they work. If you know a psychotic or schizophrenic person you know the meds work. It's on her to take her meds and get treatment, if she fails to do that that's on her. Lastly, she was coherent when her husband called. If you actually knew someone who had psychosis you would know they're not coherent at all, they're erratic, they're not cold blooded, they wouldn't plan to the degree she did, their thoughts are so jumbled they can't. With that kind of erratic behavior I doubt they'd even have the patience to strangle three people taking several minutes each.
>>542021268Let's give it to her that she was psychotic though at a specific time, someone who was not in their right mind when coming out of it, realizing what they did after they're stabilized, would feel immense guilt. Does Lindsay display any of that? Why didn't this supposedly mentally ill psychotic person kill themselves after realizing what they did? And not that fake ass suicide attempt, and if it wasn't fake she would have tried again. Psychotic people tend to be suicidal. Ok and even if not that, why does she continue to fight for her case? That's not what someone with remorse does. Someone with remorse wants to face justice, they want to repent.
>>542021268Why do they bring in common folk who don't know law*
>>542003931>She told her family she was worried she'd hurt her children (and some of the meds were causing her mental damageYet she never said that when she committed herself because she would not have been let out>She attempted suicide in a variety of ways after killing her kidsIn an attempt to avoid responsibility for what she did, she did not have a realization of wrong doing, she knew that she was fucked> lSome more things worth addressing. Psychotic episodes aren't 24/7. The duration of them varies by personHey you’re the tranny from /v/ that threw a tantrum about this a few weeks ago and tried to say how it’s not premeditated even though she only ever said she was suicidal to people who couldn’t have her locked up and then spent the rest of the thread crying and playing dumb to ignore that fact.
>>542011299He also had a house filled with skincrafted shit and wanted to cut his dick off to become a woman. Not the same as some cunt strangling her kids.
>>542003910Because this is a slippery slope that basically means no one who kills another person should be prosecuted and put in prison because of medical history, hormone imbalance and so on.Imagine someone kills your family and goes free on the claim they were on drugs and had an overly increase in testosterone and needed to murder.>This isn't a first of its kind case. Men have also been found not guilty due to being insane at the time of their crime (even in other states):She is not going for the mentally insane verdict. You don't kill your kids, blame on other things and go free. There is no way to tell if the person is telling the truth or not. The act has been done, you go to prison without passing go.
>>542022265Don’t say slippery slop, because the retards will jump in and say that’s a fallacy despite the fact incrementalism is real and exactly what the slippery slope is.
yuropoor here, just heard about the trial todayis it true that of the 11 jury people, 10 are women, who all voted not bad, and 1 man who say bad?
>>542003910I want to live in a world premeditated, unjustifiable homicide gets you locked away for a decade then killed. You could easily argue that 90% of people in prison have a mental illness.These reddit rants are irrelevant.In the next breath you will advocate for releasing criminals into cities and explain why innocent people need to die. You're a snake pretending to be a human.
>>54202246212 jurors. 9 women and 2 men voted not guilty because of 'insanity'. The other man held on guilty which resulted in the mistrial.
> be me
>>542003910>>542003931>>542003982Maybe we should just euthanize people who are insane. They are a waste of time and money and should never be allowed to procreate.
>>542023008we only think the jurors were voting not guilty because of insanity when the reality is they were actually voting not guilty straight upmuch like the child killing copers say: there's no way we can ever know for sure
>>542003910If being in a state if mental duress is enough to get away with a crime then half the felons in this country are innocent. Luigi is innocent. Every future criminal is going to be innocent. Getting a prescription for mental illness is the easiest it has ever ever been. I fill out a 6 question survey saying I am depressed and I am diagnosed as major depressive and can get 5 or 6 different pills. At some point you have to accept that people willingly took the pill. Same reason as people being fat. They willingly consume the calories. Or we accept women cannot do this and take away their rights and reset our laws to pre woman rights.
>>542003910>Why should I believe that Lindsey Clancy was sane BEYOND a reasonable doubt?Because this:>In Massachusetts when a Not Guilty by reason of Insanity (NGRI) plea is raised, the prosecution is basically required to prove beyond a reasonable doubt the defendant was sane (or sane enough)>In the USA, people who are found Not Guilty by reason of Insanity (NGRI) are sent to a mental hospitalIs unconstitutional on its face. You cannot sentence a person to a mental hospital because they are unable to prove with 100% certainty that they are sane. The entire premise on which you have predicated your system is faulty.
>>542021482>if it wasn't fake she would have tried again.she's currently in a mental hospital. probably cant do it
You put down a dog for biting a kid, even if the dog is calm 99% of the time. Why shouldn't we put down people who murder their own children?The only potential funny reaction to her getting off on insanity would be if it actually destroyed women's ability to be employed in any remotely important job ever again
>She had taken 13 different medicationsThis is untrue and I'm not reading further. She wasn't taking everything she was prescribed. She was seeing a doctor every other day and collecting prescriptions like pokemon cards.She googled how to kill, sent her husband out, called him while he was out to ensure he would be away while she was in the middle of killing the children, and then faked a suicide attempt.The prescriptions alone would be enough to convince me it was someone acting crazy, certainly, but not mentally insane enough that she didn't understand what she was doing while she did it.EVEN IF SHE WAS SO INSANE, fuck her. Life in prison, and only because the state she's in is too stupid to have the death penalty and mandatory public hanging.
>>542017859How do we know Nikolas Cruz was in his right mind at any point? Even his google searches were insane from a sane person's point of view. Who the fuck types their pedophilic impulses compulsively into a search engine? What in his behavior implies he's sane? Maybe he was crazy to plea guilty too? Just an insane mind making inexplicable decisions. At what point is it no longer his fault? When is he insane enough? What is the metric? Surely it has to be something about patterns of behavior and not on what a person claims. If your acts show premeditation and deliberation, claiming insanity is bullshit. Even if the killer isn't right in the head, they certainly understand what they are doing and what results from their acts.
>>542003910hang that foid now, I've got the rope right here
>>542003910extreme premeditation, cover up of her actions in progress = mens rea = not meeting the bar for criminally incapable of guiltnot guilty for insanity = she is out in 3-5 years max, in theory she could go the next day
>>542003910You believe whatever you want, it’s a free country. I personally think she should be hung.
>>542003910You're right. Given the evidence, proving sanity beyond a reasonable doubt is very hard. It's a retarded burden for the prosecution to have to prove when it is the defence theory. But apparently that is the way it works in Massachusetts.If it was the other way around, and the defence had to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that she was insane then it would be a slam dunk case for the prosecution.>clear premeditation >planned to remove husband from home so that she could commit the act (proving a capacity to understand the criminal nature of her intent and demonstrating the capacity to conform her conduct to the law i.e. she was not so crazy that she was compelled to kill them immediately regardless of who was around)That is more than enough to create reasonable doubt that she was not insane (by the legal standard) when she killed her kids. In any other state she would have been found guilty. Massachusetts is just retarded.
>>542007458What's her motive?
>>542028231What difference does her motive make?
>>542017514>Having gone through my mental health journeyTits or gtfo
>>542028369Lack of motive makes a stronger case for psychosis
>>542003910I'm gonna make it simple for you: if she's sane, hang her, if she isn't, hang her.
>>542029216How do you prove lack of motive? Just because a murderer's motive doesn't make sense to Susan at the watercooler doesn't mean it doesn't make sense to the murderer. How is Lindsay's triple murder more insane than someone shooting up random people in public? Are you in favor of mass shooters being deemed not culpable because "lack of motive makes a stronger case for psychosis"? Or are you going to selectively apply this idea to only this case while ignoring all other senseless murders? You could speculate the mass shooter was motivated by seething hatred, but why couldn't the same apply in this case? And if the mass shooter doesn't say what motivated the act, it's speculation anyway. Or how about Jeffrey Dahmer. Did it make sense for Dahmer to murder his gay hookups and dissolve their bodies instead of just living his gay lifestyle like other gays? What could he possibly gain from murdering them? Momentary satisfaction from killing? Does that make sense when the stakes are so high? Maybe Lindsay enjoyed murdering her kids. No one knows. I mean, if she came out and said she enjoyed it, her supporters either wouldn't believe her at all or they'd say "poor woman, this is what postpartum depression does to you". You could easily find thousands of cases where there is no understandable motive, nothing to gain. Like one of the numerous cases were blacks rob people in the street and then before leaving shoot the defenseless victim dead. What is the motive? They could get away with the robbery, but murder investigation gets more resources. They gained nothing from the murder. Does that mean they could claim insanity? "Voices in my head told me to shoot him." This is what happens when you start to back up insanity defenses by speculations about whether there's a rational motive.
Sane or not, she should be rotting in a prison or executed regardless. The "mental illness" conversation is purely for prevention, if you commit a violent crime then you get the same punishment.
