Bjarne Stroustrup has laughed off claims that AI can replace Software Engineers. Stroustrup argued that AI coding tools consistently generate more bugs, more bloat, and more security holes than they help eliminate — and that the resulting code is "nearly impossible to validate" in safety-critical contexts.https://caimpare.ai/articles/c-creator-bjarne-stroustrup-says-ai-generated-code-isn-t-ready-it-produces-more-bugs-more-bloat-more-security-holes
>>542050368I don't care. He's a boomer and doens't know what he's talking about.
>>542050368He is way smarter than I am but he does not know what is in the worksAI will keep getting better each dayCoding is one of those areas where AI can get infinitely better due to recursive self learningSo human coding is definitely dead
>>542050368>>542050458It will kill off any hopes for a young person to be a SWE, but people who have established careers will still keep their jobs
>>542050368
both C and C++ are shit languages that by design are buggy. C/C++ programmers spend 20% of their time writing code and 80% of their time in the debugger fighting a language that has zero bounds checking. AI will SOLVE the C/C++ problem eventually and make Ada-like code that SWE's will never understand.Bjarne is a hack riding off Dennis Ritchie's brilliance and anyone listens to him is as much of a pretentious hack that he is
>>542050368what software has this idiot ever made?
>>542050597Basically this. He also argues that AI is shit at the job, but it doesnt need to be good when it just has to convince people it works
>>542050555>be jeet>hello saars>bjarne stroustrop is two banchods smarter than my jeet brain!ok dude. you didnt even have to say that to be honest
>>542050555you don't even know how good human made code looks like. I have worked with you people and you produce spaghetti code 24/7
>>542050829none, as soon as he got famous he spent all his time at Bell Labs trying to sell C++ so they fired him and sent him off to academia
>>542050911Tell me that AFTER you become CEO of GoogleUntil then just shut upxD
>>542050368>old man doesn't like and talks bad about new things woah, that's ground breaking
>>542050368>email will never take off>it’s too expensive and almost no one is using computers anyhowIt’s amazing how this pattern of thinking never goes away. Ever generation swears technology will never get better, while living in a time where their tech is basically magic to the generations before.
>>542050368If you have extremely well written code, written by very talented people, this may be the case.I can tell you, when it comes to a lot of normal coding work, AI is insaney good value for money in comparison to a coder.In python, the code output also seems good for all I can tell.Would like to try a C project at some point to see what the AI does there. I feel like there a lot more interesting choices there.
>>542050961>saar CEO
>>542050458You are an absolute idiot. Congratulations.
>>542050368He's right. No matter how you cut it you can not argue objective numbers. Indians, like it or not, have built apps. AI has so built exactly 0 apps.
>>542050829He is the guy who build factories that build factories.I think that he's semi-wrong though. Current AI (LLM) models have foundational problems that will limit them eventually. It's a parrot with insane amount of memory and processing speed. This is enough for quick search and synthesis of known work, but for exploratory tasks it won't be enough.
>>542050368How comes AI is being used to find zero day exploits that no human has thought about before then?
>>542050849AI is good though. It's unironically helping to solve proofs all of the time now.He probably thinks the basic ChatGPT app is what modern AI is capable of.Hell, it doesn't even have to be 100% as good as a person, it just needs to make their job much faster, for corporations to fuck over young workers and make it all just a few Senior SWE.
>White man states obvious truth >Jeets, chinks and slavs start seething and saying Noooo muh grok is smart broGrim
>>542051156>Indians, like it or not, have built apps.Okay SAR.Copying code from stack exchange and/or begging more competent colleagues to do it doesn't count.
>>542050368The issue isnt deleting the iob, its devaluing it to the point its not worth doing unless youre third world.
>>542050829https://computerhistory.org/profile/bjarne-stroustrup/
>>542050368The problem is managers don't really give a fuck about code quality. Since coding isn't a profession like (even on the level of being an actuary), coders can get pushed around by managers for not producing as much slop code as the Indians on their team. If you don't have as many lines of code committed you'll be fired.Yes in 1-2 years the entire infrastructure will be unusable garbage but the non technical managers are gambling they'll get hired into a more senior role by then.Anecdotally there have been as many AWS outages in the past year 2025-2026 than in the previous 5 years 2020 - 2025. The Jeet AI sloppification has only just started. As it continues all of our web apps are going to be less and less reliable.
>>542051252Yes this. Coding went from a nerdy but high IQ job to a jeet slop job. They didn't protect their profession with some standards like say actuaries and other engineers did.It became overrun with MBAfags and other managers that were able to enshittify the field with SCRUM/agile management methodologies. They wanted to push more shitty features into their apps. They wanted to hire more Indians, they cut every corner.Get the fuck out of this field if you're still working in it. Do something else 9-5 and if you have a business idea that involves software, write the software yourself. Don't make software your 9-5 job.
>>542050555Blatantly false. Code keeps evolving and AI does not know the future. 30 years ago you'd see retards write code and you'd pray they don't forget to free their memory. If AI was written 30 years ago and learned from those retards Y2K would've been legit. And thinking you have it figured out today is the definition of hubris. Your code it shit. It smells and AI learned your code.
>>542052090>Yes this. Coding went from a nerdy but high IQ job to a jeet slop job.it was never high IQ, very few systems programmers have a CS degree. the fact that C89 is STILL the industry standard (ignoring all C++ 'innovations') and that *nix is the ONLY OS used in industry shows that the entire industry is run by hacks who are able to get stuff running despite being buggy and unsecured. Eventually the actual smart people are going to get code bases running that these moron 'systems guys' will never be able to understandno one needs bro-grammers, the fact they think they control IT is going to be shown for what it is very soon
>>542052999Keep believing that smart one
Comments on this topic are always a sea of idiots. The average person is so frustratingly stupid.>it can't do anything beyond simple fizzbuzz type problems>it keeps making mistakes>it still needs supervision>tokens are too expensive>even if no one needs software devs, if you're truly good at your job and a real engineer, you'll always be in demand bro, because reasonsand also on the other side:>your job is daycare, you do nothing useful, and get paid due to a plot by the jews, but also AI is going to replace you and also pajeets are going to replace you>haha learn to plumb! (frustrated retards who tried to learn to code and couldn't)i get it, saying something meaningful about this requires reasoning. but this is just bleak. just a sea of retarded takes. can no one fucking think? im not saying anyone should agree with me but at least write something that's based on logic and not just responses to stimuli that you saw somewhere.>>542051047>AI is insaney good value for money in comparison to a coderthe discussion is about whether what AI can do in the future will be good enough to do a coder's work. AI can't possibly be good or bad value for money in comparison to a coder with the way it is now. you fucking retard.>the code output also seems good for all I can tellkek>>542051252how many thirdworlders work at videotape rental businesses due to the job being devalued?>>542051871>>542052090you're very bad at reasoning and none of what you said makes any sense>>542053009coding was "never high IQ" but for some reason we're well paid for coding for like 2h a day from home, people started noticing and there was a big "learn to code" trend, salaries are still high which shows very few people actually learned to code, and at the same time a lot of people seem to hate us for some reason, hmmm
>>542050555The funniest part about this all is that they replaced the coding workforce with Jeets BEFORE they started training the AI, so now the AI's all produce Jeetcode and it's exactly why Bjarne is saying this. >b-but Jews code too, and they're intelligent!Nope. See this competency crisis everywhere? That happened because the Jews used the DEI era to kick all the competent Goyim, who were doing all the actual productive work, out of industry. Now industry is just Jewish penny-pinchers, subhuman retarded Jeets, and AI which distills the worst of both of them.
>>542056793Who are you going to blameWhen you get replaced by AI jeetcodeI wonder
>>542056793>doesnt know Israel has secretly had the technology to replace coders for decades>doesnt know the whole point of coder jobs is to keep nerds busy so they won't be poking holes at "proof" of the holocaust>doesnt know that the reason they released this is that now the nerds are so demoralized by dating apps and hypergamy that they're not even a threat>doesnt know there's actually 10x as many pajeets in India as they tell us, and they're dumping ALL of them into Europe and North America, to have them train a jeet coded AI that will monitor the flock cameras and flag anyone not a turbonormie>doenst know there's an even better AI than even those hidden ones that can code and do all jobs since the 70s, that they let goyim governments (but not the goyim masses) know about, which is personally coded by jews at the mossad, and is a super intelligence that's running and directing the whole downfall of the westkek ngmi
>>542050555saar. AI's cannot template metaprogram saar, because almost noone can saar. and the ones that bloody bloody do saar, do not upload on the git hub saar. Recursive self learning is generational decay/model collaspe saar, unless you already have tests built saar. Which means you already solved the problem constraints saar. Do you have custom harness saar? Have you tried to claude template c++ metaprogram saar? its a a bloody bloody bitch of a mess saar. >jam boys go home
>>542057125there will be a whole worldwide underclass of autistic dalits with no real skills
>>542050911>you don't even know how good human made code looks likeThe real purpose of code was never to be readable or easy to validate for other human, it's for machine not human. We just had no other way to develop other than put a lot of effort to put ourselves in-between code and machine to validate, test, make code secure and clean. Until now. >>542050789>AI will SOLVE the C/C++ problem eventually and make Ada-like code that SWE's will never understand.AI will be an answer to why bother using code language to give instructions to machine when you can use "natural" language to give instructions to machine and AI acting as a translator... well that's literally it.
>>542050555How do you know it will keep getting better every day? Everything that can be fed into AI has and we know feeding AI slop back into AI literally tanks it's IQ. You think a guess the next word machine can reach AGI or above expert levels?
>>542062250>"natural" languageNatural languages are the cause of all the problem, not the solution.
>>542062492>Everything that can be fed into AI hasnaw bro. Plain text human corpus of printed texts is something like a thousand TB of data. New GPT6 is like 10Trillion parameters, assuming 64byte parameters, thats like mid hundreds TB (roughly, just talking in terms of OoM). Thats just printed books, not magazines, not journals, not blogs, not simulations, not twitter, not newspapers, not transcripts of videos, not transcripts of audio recordings, not raw data readouts not not not not.... you get my drift. We have plenty of data to push model size by another OoM or two or three or four in the very least.
>>542062250None of what you say has any value if you don't even know that no software devs are losing their jobs to AI. This is a hypothetical.You have no inner dialogue, just react to stimuli, and you think all software devs are out of a job due to AI, which is fucking retarded, there would be lots of threads from complaining devs, serious talk about UBI, and the internet would change massively if the way software is made changed like that.I do think the hypothetical is very plausible, though.Whether code will not need to be good anymore is a different story. We're still talking about LLMs, not some sci fi technology that can reason and figure things out. Maybe bad code would throw it off by not repeating the patterns it learned. Or maybe it would get confused and create problems and bugs if its not clear what the code does. You probably won't understand this but idc.>>542062492>Everything that can be fed into AI has and we know feeding AI slop back into AI literally tanks it's IQI've been calling people idiots etc but that doesn't apply to you, as this is unironically logic based. Mad respect for that.Your deduction makes total sense, the only objection is that they're still changing how the AI absorbs what is fed into it.There's potential in doing this. They can change the pattern that AI output conforms to. For example, initially they made it so it responds to questions instead of continuing the text. They can also make it so it's less likely to say things that are not present either in training data or the prompt, making it so it makes things up less. They can even make it so it can pass reasoning benchmarks by adding patterns that are similar to people's reasoning, etc.
>>542062863kraut gets it.
>>542063032>Plain text human corpus of printed texts is something like a thousand TB of data. New GPT6 is like 10Trillion parameters, assuming 64byte parameters, thats like mid hundreds TBkek>he doesn't know the jews have a secret corpus of every single spoken conversation in the vicinity of a cellphone, every chat, every newspaper, and even your thoughts, in the mid hundreds PB
>>542063095>one of what you say has any value if you don't even know that no software devs are losing their jobs to AI. This is a hypothetical.>You have no inner dialogue, just react to stimuli, and you think all software devs are out of a job due to AI, which is fucking retardedI stopped reading there because I realized you're writing a fanfiction about something I never said.
>it wont replace software engineers>just now 1 engineer can do the job of 5>but it didnt replace those 4 jobs honest
>>542063230?? you said "until now"
>>542050368This guy is the most demented malding boomer ever.
>>542063200exactly. JUST with printed and published books, there is still head room when compared with parameter size. And thats before considering things like noising up the data, synthesizing some, and the other tricks that dont collapse models
>>5420632391 engineer doing the job of 5 happens all the time. if that was all it would not be a problem. the problem is eventually the AI will, very possibly, be able to do it aloneNPCs think it can already do it. doesnt surprise me, as they get all sorts of stimuli from AI hype so they end up thinking AI is superhuman basically. but just because they're wrong about the present doesnt mean it wont eventually happen
>>542063322that was a joke actually but idk, could beanyway my real objection to your post is that you're comparing two unrelated things, parameters are not the same as the training data
>>542062250Bro... indians are going to use AI to save sizes of arrays in SQL then when ever they need to bounds check they will query the SQL with AI. It will super fast.
>>542063573This sentence made no sense, but based.
>>542050878KEK
>>542063265Yeah until now you HAD to know the specific code language, now you don't - you can just type in English, but I'm not saying SE are unemployed because of it. Just as a guy who was digging holes with shovel didn't become unemployed the moment excavator was invented.
>>542063403not claiming they are, just pointing out that, in the simplest terms, this small small slice of available training data is larger than all the parameters. Even assuming a perfect 1:1 mapping and no data compression from training....worse case scenario... We (royal we) have tons of runaway left on the training data front.
>>542063687Ok sorry. I misunderstood and just started calling you a midwit NPC. My bad.You're right, AI can make it easier to code in a language you don't know.Though tbf I never thought knowing a programming language was that relevant, they're similar and you could just look up the syntax anyway.
>>542063609nta but indians often use lookup tables for things that really should be calculated on the fly, like temperature unit conversions
>>542050555> Recursive self-learningAI is incapable of learning. It's a large language model that's trained on billion data points. After the training session is done and the model is released, it doesn't learn anything on its own. It can recursively increase the resolution of the output, but that's not learning the way humans learn.> Human coding is deadIt's not. Because of said lack of learning. Additionally, the inability of AI to prioritize. By its very nature LLM picks most plausible outcome. But often, the less plausible outcome is the correct one, because priorities can change on a whim and in specific contexts. Humans are very good at this. Then there's the human bottleneck. Code needs to be taken responsibility for and curated. It doesn't matter if AI can spam infinite lines of code. Humans still need to review it and there are only so many qualified humans to do so. This is already happening with Linux kernel guys- they are getting completely swamped with bug fix commits, creating an ever-growing backlog to sift through.Lastly, expertise. We will still need millions of IT experts to improve programming, discover new algorithms and AI models and maintain data centers and networking and review AI generated code etc. How do you learn to review the code? By coding a whole bunch. This applies to all industries. Without practical know-how, you aren't gaining expertise. The best coders will still be the best AI users.
>>542063710I don't think the resulting parameters are even related to the amount of internet text they have for training.For example when they finetune a model to not say anything bad about niggers, that adds parameters too.
>>542050789>bounds checking is for loserswomp womp
>>542063095>There's potential in doing this. They can change the pattern that AI output conforms to. For example, initially they made it so it responds to questions instead of continuing the text. They can also make it so it's less likely to say things that are not present either in training data or the prompt, making it so it makes things up less. They can even make it so it can pass reasoning benchmarks by adding patterns that are similar to people's reasoning, etc.everything youre describing is just GANs, which is what made AI so good in the first place. total retards who have no idea how AI works in this thread
>>542050368Holy based
>>542064168I don't know how AI works on the same level as people making it, but I know the basics from having a comp sci degree.Most people should know the limitations of AI and get an idea of how it works from just using it anyway. It's not like I'm lecturing anyone on how it works, I'm just saying logically obvious things.Btw what I described is not GANs. They actually finetune LLMs after training with the corpus text in order to change how it responds, everyone knows this.
>>542063805>Though tbf I never thought knowing a programming language was that relevant, they're similar and you could just look up the syntax anyway.And you're right, once you know one you can pretty much switch to a different one easier to a degree because it's a little bit more to that than just language alone - the point is you can use just English and if you already have experience as SE you already have some technical skill/knowledge/experience and ability to problem solve, know data structures, architecture, some principles etc. And even those are things any decent LLM will out of the box know and follow but it helps.
>>542050368the danger is that C/C++ gets replaced by some AI code that humans cannot learn nor program with>bjarneotherwise, assuming human codeable languages stay, both C/C++ are pretty much cast into stone, yesthanks for weighing in>bjarnethe danger here is other human beingsnot reality(thats why its so... tragic, but in a retarded way)
>>542064299Nah senpai. If you haven't written a single line in CUDA then you kinda just should stfu. Define "learning".
>>542064474>Define "learning"
Imagine that AI is not your friend and helper. Instead, it's your adversary. How do you kill it?
