when did you realizes that farmers in america are absolute parasites?>contribute 1.2% to GDP >destroy environment through unsustainable and inefficient practices >destroy water resources for irrigation so that you can grow crops in arid areas where crops has no business growing >get this water almost for free because the government subsidizes this wasteful water use>use 60-80% of all water in western states>drain lakes, poison land with pesticides and chemicals, drive up utility bills, wipe out endangered species, etc, just to contribute 1.2% to GDP >government not only allows, but subsidizes this behavior at a significant cost>government can't say no to you because "le old fashioned farming family" is infallible and sacred in the minds of most americans and because senate gives backwater agricultural states disproportionate political powerall of this is especially true in western states. this is why i have zero sympathy for farmers. in fact, i'm happy when farmers suffer. we could make agriculture in this country vastly more efficient and sustainable by ending all subsides, selling all small farms to large corporations, abandoning areas that aren't suited for agriculture to begin with (most of the southwest) and focusing on fertile lands in the midwest and great plains. this would preserve and increase our production of key crops such as corn and grain, preserve the health of the people and environment, and all we would lose is some almonds and fruit and a few thousand butthurt farmers who would still, by the way, be millionaires.
>>542156187 .....
>>542156187>Agriculture (the bedrock of civilization) is parasitical in nature because it doesn't sufficiently contribute to the GDP>Also the environment o algo but DO NOT talk about factories or data centresOkay /pol/, is this elaborate bait or genuine schizo retardation?
>>542156649Nigger
>>542156649>I'm a retard that can't into reading and I'm PROUD of itcalm down, jamboy
>>542156187Corpo's are not good stewards of the earth. They have a tendency to use a lot of nasty chemicals and fertilizers which harm the environment.What we should actually do is give every American a plot of land and a book on farming so that everyone can start growing their own food.
>>542156845you are correct that agriculture is the bedrock of civilization. however, not all agriculture is made equal. a farmer in iowa growing corn or wheat on very fertile land is a useful and essential part of the economy. he gives back more than he takes, and if society collapses, we would be reliant on people like him. a farmer in arizona using a metric fuckton of water from critically overused waterways and lakes to grow almonds in the desert is not useful or essential. he is destroying incredibly valuable resources and hurting the citizenry in order to grow a pointless product that could be grown elsewhere much better. but the government overwhelmingly subsides the latter. they definitely subsidize the guy in iowa too (corn -> ethanol subsidies) and i don't like that either, but the guy in arizona is much, much more harmful.
Growing gigantic fields of one crop is efficient but it's also fucking terrible for the soil. I do a lot of gardening and grow a lot of vegetables, and it takes some work to do weeding and mulching and keeping your soil optimal for vegetable growth. And then you have to keep an eye on each batch of plants to make sure they don't get some fungal blight or hungry caterpillars or whatever else. If you give individual care to the soil and to each plant, then you get a bountiful harvest of nutritious vegetables to feed yourself and your family. Plus this strengthens the family unit and encourages having children. Farming is really the natural state of the human being, and has been for hundreds of thousands of years. It's actually highly unnatural to rely on giga factory farming done by faceless evil corporations.
>>542156187>tldr I want everyone to starve to death because I dislike farmers be careful what you wish for lmao
>>542156187Bump
>>542156187You will never survive as a society without those almonds and fruit
>>542156187
>>542156187Very accurate assessment. The glorification of farmers (or any “traditional” unionized cult) is base performance morality for those of limited intelligence. Recall the constant fellating of police officers or even soldiers. These are powerful groups with powerful lobbyists who squeeze the taxpayer dry for no benefit whatsoever.Also, you’re right that focusing agriculture on more fertile regions would be the obviously more efficient strategy. Food could be transported easily and inexpensively via rail to the west. Some transport is already needed simply intra-state. The systems we have in place now were inherited from earlier eras and kept out of the same moronic deference to the tradition referenced earlier. You couldn’t refrigerate a large quantity of produce in a truck back then, so everything had to be grown locally. That isn’t the world we live in now, obviously. Technology then permitted us to live in deserts. But technology now does not dictate that we must grow food in them.
If you make all your food in one location, then you need to ship that food to every other location using tricks, running on very expensive diesel. It should be obvious that it would be more efficient if everyone grew their own food. You could completely remove the need for long term storage, refrigeration and shipping.
>>542156187I use the creek that's flowed on our land ever since my great grandma parents bought it to water my crops every season. It doesn't water or take away a single drop of water from the rest of the water table. Most our county live down the valley along tge river, we have regular high water every rainy season without fail. Never had a drought I'm aware of. Op sounds like an uneducated retard.
>>542158189The economy of scale is more important than shortening the supply chain. Grain has to be processed. Doing that in every house or having a truck come and collect all the grain in a neighborhood to be sent to a facility for processing would not be efficient.
>>542156187Go home jeet
>>542157804we can import them from other countries that have land much better suited to growing them, which would reduce theprice. this is called comparative advantage and adam smith figured it out in the year 1776.
>>542157997Yes saar! Why grow wheat when cows shit for free, saar! More H1-Bs! Subsidize H1-Bs!
>>542158607Would it reduce price or give another country leverage over the importer? Dollars are not the only currency.
>>542158662Who’s calling for more H1-Bs? It’s not the people opposed to farming in the desert.
>>542156187>farmers contribute to only 1.5% gpdwell when you factor in the groceries, the restaurants, the people who work aftet eating the food, the people who live in fancy neighborhoods with access to cheap food (costco), it equates to much more than 1.5%.Farmers are already being heavily taxes by shortsighted people who live in more densley populated areas that dont understand where their food comes from, or how they personally benefit from farm subsidies.
>>542156187The funny thing is that farmers in the USA are very much welfare niggers and if it would be only to feed the USA population that would be okay but no the US farmers export most of their stuff. Amerigoys paying taxes so third world countries can import cheap American food.
>>542158802You could use similar logic to argue that the military is responsible for 100% of the GDP, since the military defends us from TERRORISTS!
>>542156187>muh GDPStopped reading there.
The big problem with OP's premise is that everyone knows the food in America is poison. It's the lowest quality trash on earth and it's full of chemicals that most nations have banned from use. So when you say you want more big-agro and more consolidation, then that's just going to make things worse. We'll get even more food of even lower quality.
>>542156187We need lab grown food ASAP!It’s not the Data Centers GOYSLOP it’s the farmers!
The food in the USA is already so gross that it's barely edible. We need to grow our own food so we don't die from horrible cancers in the next 10 years.
>>542159382the solution to this is more regulation but poltards can't stomach that
>>542156187>>542160013Family farming is a meme. It's mostly been dead since the 70s-80s when the US Dept of Ag said get big or close. High interest rates, high fuel prices, high input prices, low prices for sell, consolidation of US food distributors. Most family farms died 50 or so years ago.White American food culture is broken. Most White People here suck at cooking. It's also bad because the ingredients and bad or fake.White American Culture here doesn't appreciate our European herritage. They want to tariff European: Beer, Butter, Cheese, Chocolate, Honey, Liquors, Meats, Mustard, Olive oil, Pasta, Wine, Vinegar, etc. Everything is fake here in America. The chocolate has lower % of cocoa. The cheese is fake and isn't even allowed to be called by the FDA and I'm pretty sure is banned in Europe.Most White People here don't appreciate fine White Culture and want everybody to pay tariffs so that everybody can enjoy the trash cuisine. In Europe, there are food products have a Protected Designation of Origin or PGI that require it to be make in said with using traditional methods. White People are forgetting our European roots. Recipes from the Europe we had aren't being passed down.Many areas also don't good access to fresh produce, fresh fruit fresh meats, spices, fresh seafood, etc. They're usually near expiration date shipped from the other side of the country or from other countries. The only good source of these things is to buy them locally in season from the few small family owned farms that remain.
>>542158834the insidious part is that not only are they welfare niggers but they are also millionaires. there are thousands of homeless in america, and the government spends billions propping up farmers who own tens of millions in land, equipment and liquid assets.
>>542156187how many days in a row would you manage to go on without eating anything?
>>542158734the reason you are wearing the clothes on your back is because they are made in vietnam or central america so that americans can have them for low prices. the reason you have the computer you are posting on is because it is made in china so that americans can have it at low prices. it's an ugly reality, but crucially it is the reality of a globalized economy. if anything, offshoring agriculture makes much more sense than offshoring manufacturing since factories employ 10% of americans (used to be more like 25% before clinton) and farms only employ about 1%
>>542160652also, most agriculture can't be offshored, and if it can, that's because it is wasteful. go read picrel.
>>542160439Yeah but most of the homeless are drug addicted crack-head niggers that would steal the gold fillings out of your teeth. They are so mentally ill that they should have been put down like rabid animals, decades ago. If you throw money into a black hole, you just have a black hole and no money.
>>542156187>government subsidizesyepsame was with suburbiagovernment created problems through retarded planning but it was very nice for 1st generation that enjoyed it and will now do anything to defend the dream jews sold them after ww2their precious ponzi scheme
>>542156187>selling all small farms to large corporationsDo you think that the large corporations will do things better than the smaller farmers?
>>542160652we had major textile production hubs in Europe out competing the entire indian subcontinent for ages. the clothes im wearing now are of inferior cut and quality than what my ancestors wore.the same applies to every other industry, we once produced out own shit, got paid well for it and thus were able to afford them. The quality of products was superior across the board too
>>542156187Do you like to eat?
>>542156187>farmers are evil therefor we must give all custody over arable land to corposdo you work in finance? not everything is ones and zeros on a spread sheet, you realize we want to eat food in the end, grill a nice steak with some veggies and starch or grain products, preferably with some nice herbs and spices.what you're suggesting is min maxing some calorie diet, have it all be some grey slop made of bugs devoid of flavor since that's what corpos do, especially if they make profit they will not be held accountable you should know this.I agree with you on the pesiticides and chemicals but those are mostly the corpo farms you're trying to champion here.Now if you're suggesting this is what we do to the third world I'm aboard fuck them, if they want to be sustained rather than sustain themselves let them eat slop, but I'm not going to lower myself to a slave meal just so faggots like you can pump the numbers on some silly metric.
>>542161318>got paid wellWorkers got paid enough in the past so they could afford a lot of products that are not basic for their survival? I doubt that.
I literally vertical farm all my fruits and vegetables but vertical farming towers were shot down as soon as the blueprints were submitted. Whole world is fucked because of money
>>542156187What a retarded fucking take lmao
>>542156187You're right about Farming having way more political influence than it should have, especially big ag, but wrong about which sectors and actors are subsidized. Almond, fruits, vegatable, etc farms are not heavily subsidized compared to massive grain (corn, wheat, rice), cotton, and basedbeans. Produce gets less than 4% of total direct subsidies. They're excluded from Price Loss Coverage and Agricultural Risk Coverage. They hold very little political power. Dairy gets Dairy Margin Coverage, but mainly has subsidized feedstock via basedbeans and corn.Livestock is Livestock Forage Disaster Program, but it mostly favors larger operations. The direct subsidies aren't as big or meaningful as grain. They also use subsidized corn and basedbean as inputs. They are allowed to graze on BLM land and USFS land, but have to pay to do so. But alfalfa can be expensive. So many smaller operations grow alfalfa and use BLM/USFS land to forage as much as they can.Sugar has import quotas and tariffs mainly. This is a politically powerful lobby and is the main reason real sugar is twice the global price in the US. They have a group called the American Sugar Alliance to protect sugar cane (Florida, Texas, Louisiana, Hawaii) and sugar beet (MN, ND, ID, MI, NE).Small scale livestock (Cattlemen) and produce farms tend to be more more family owned. Produce (fruits and vegetables) are supermajority family farms. Subsidies are distributed based on production volume and total acreage, small family farms collectively receive only about 9% of federal subsidy payouts. So 91% of federal subsidies go to protect massive farms and big ag. People when voting often still think of agriculture like its the early 1900s and before the 1970s-1980s Farming Crisis. By the late 1980s and the 1990s the majority of farming output in America went to big ag. Older people and the public are stuck in the past in how they think of agriculture. See here too for stuff about quality:>>542160415
>>542161754before the industrial revolution people didnt get paid shit, no. after that purchasing power has steadily increased until we arrived at the Baby Boomers. Translating their minimum wage to modern day purchasing power would translate to something like 50 USD an hour. only consumer electronics have dropped in cost in a significant way.
>>542156187>contribute 1.2% to GDPTheir percentage of contribution is diminished because about 40% of the US economy is real estate and rent. Who are the real leeches?
>>542162001How do you make products in Europe if the salaries and costs in general of the european workers are much higher than in other countries where they are currently making those products?
>SAARS FARMER NOT CONTRIBUTE GDP SAAR WHY THEY NOT CREATE CEO SAARS? OK?
>>542156187Farming isn't the most profitable part of the Ag sector. Farming Operations only get only 11.8% of the profits from food agriculture. Small Family Owned Farms only get 2.06% of the total food profits. We have all the subsidies, tariffs, water use, pollution, etc to protect Big Ag and Big Business that produce slop. The value of raw cotton in clothing is 1-2% of the retail price. Wool is 1-5% of the retail price and often operates at a loss. Leather is a byproduct and is 0-1%.The value of tobacco is 2-3% of the retail price.The most profitable part of food and agriculture economy aren't the producers. The agricultural economy can best be understood as an hourglass. The suppliers (the top) and the shipping companies and big consolidated buyers (the bottom) make the most of the money and squeeze the farmers in the middle. Small farmers pay retail for inputs, shipping both ways, and get paid wholesale prices. The sectors related to farming, not farming operations themselves, all have higher profit margins than farmers. They're the ones who make the most money off of farming.The inputs: processing machinery, tractors, irrigation, pesticides, gmo, fertalizer. Shipping companies: water transport, cargo ships, barges, railroads. Consolidated buyers: retailers, big food companies, bioethanol, beverage industry, clothing industry, etc Here's a breakdown:https://www.ers.usda.gov/data-products/food-dollarFood Services (Restaurants, fastfood): 34.1%Food Processing: 14.5%Food Retailing: 12.4%Farmers: 11.8%Wholesale Trade: 10.8%Energy/Utilities: 4.1%Transportation: 3.5%Ag inputs: 3.1%Packaging, Finance, insurance, and other: 5.6%Small Family Farms are 86% of farms, but only represent 17% of total production. So 0.17*0.118=0.0206.Small Family owned farms thus only represent 2.06% of the total profits of the food supply chain. See here for a breakdown on quality and breakdown of scale of operations/subsidies:>>542160415>>542161924
>>542156187>>542163300>>542162070>>542161810>>542161656Farmers and especially Small Family Farms do not make the majority of the money. Farming operations capture 11.8% of food chain revenue. Small Family Farms capture 2.06% of the food chain revenue. It's a complete joke. The pollution, subsidies, tariffs, and water usage, etc all just go to further the profits of Big Ag, the suppliers, transport, and big consolidated buyers. They sell slop that's killing Americans and garbage products (shitty clothes, etc) that suck.We have a broken political system in the US that gives profits to Big Ag that produces slop, companies that facilitate it, and companies that process/sell it. The US political system gives outsized weight to irrelevant States in the name of protecting the farmers. It doesn't do much to help Small Family Owned Farms, and in the process, ruins American health.
>>542162982when wages are higher people can afford more expensive products. We used to import raw materials and refine them, which was also something nobody else could do or could do at the scale we did it because we industrialized the process.the only reason other countries can produce these products the first place is because we effectively gave them the means to do so free of charge. Historically when you competed on a more even ground you would protect your domestic industry.china might be the 'factory of the world' but it is also an import nation but unlike the west and the USA and Australia in particular, they still depend entirely on a foreign consumer bloc instead of a domestic one.during the dutch golden age most of our money was made inside of europe, trading goods from places where they were plentiful to places where they were scarce.
>>542164953>when wages are higher people can afford more expensive products.But the companies aren't going to pay higher wages just because they like Europe, they will produce where the salaries are lower.
>>542166218>>542164953>>542162982The EU helps subsudize Agriculture through the European Agricultural Guarantee Fund (EAGF): €291.1 billion and European Agricultural Fund for Rural Development (EAFRD): €95.5 billionThey have PDO/PGI products that are certified to be made in a certain region and follow certain traditional methods. You can't label a wine Champagne in the EU without it being from there. They can't label a cheese Grana Padano without it being from certain parts of the Po River Valley. These products have to be produced and processed there.People manufacture goods in Europe because of the specialized and educated workforce and focus on higher margin or complex goods: Machine Tools, Optics, Aerospace, Industrial Robots, Pharmaceuticals, Pharma Equipment, ASML Lithography Machines, etc.A lot of this is B2B stuff that normal people don't really buy. Your average consumer goods and trinkets can be made overseas because it's lower margins or relies on a lot of manual labor. Europe can still make boutique or quality goods like: glassware, knives, watches, high end clothing and leather goods, fragrances, good audio equipment, etc. These higher end goods cater to: enthusiasts, hobbyists, wealthy/upper middle class people, and businesses. So, Europe still can make things by specializing in PDO/PGI foods, alcohol, B2B goods/equipment/components, or higher end consumer goods. It's about focusing on niche and higher margin goods.
>>542167451Will that give enough jobs for the european workers?
>>542167762Probably not entirely. But, I am saying there is a reason people continue to manufacture food, goods, and equipment in Europe. There are efforts apparently to retrain people, expand vocational training, etc. There's the whole NextGenerationEU thing to focus on tech, renewables, healthcare, etc. 70-80% of Europeans work in the service industry already like finance, tech, hospitality, tourism, etc. There's a massive public sector where any European country has 15-25% working for the government. Defense spending, which is rising in Europe, is another way to bolster employment. Europe is attempting to build their own venture capital markets and make it easier to invest in each others countries and do business there. But these all require money and China is already pulling ahead in many areas.But, compare this to the US where none of these things are being addressed by the government at all. Where the only reason we have lower unemployment is massive capital markets, a larger unified economy, and more relaxed labor laws, and a lot of underemployed people.It seems the entire West and Western aligned countries are fucked here. Even China is having issues with youth unemployment and underemployment.
>>542168914Don't you think that China will be able to do all those high tech or specialized products in the future?
Your back strap is tender and delicious. Hopefully the back strap of fat mannequins in polyester are as well. It will come to that. Because meat sources that never stooped to drop a seed believe those that do unworthy, and those that do just stop and let nature takes it's course.
>>542156187Yeah, let's just depend on other countries for food and import shit stained veggies from south of the Rio Grande.
>>542157436>this goes on, and then those commercial beekeepers complain about "Muh Colony Collapse Disease."
From where do you think your food came from, OP? Supermarkets?
The paradox of agricultural GDP is that the better agriculture you have the lower % of GDP it makes up. Once you start starving price of food rises and people can't afford non food related economic activity so the share of agriculture in GDP balloons. It's quite a good proxy for shithole status basically.
>>542169102China is developing their own AI, tech companies, semiconductors, etc. Making Lithography Machines isn't easy and requires having everything just work right with precise tools and everything. That's more difficult and hampers their ability to produce higher end chips. China's lithography machines can't be made like ASML, who can source parts from all over the Western aligned world for their machines.China already make their own Machine Tools and Industrial Robots. The supermajority of Chinese Manufacturers use Chinese Machine Tools, but they still have majority foreign machine tools for more precision and niche applications. A slight majority of Chinese manufacturers have Chinese Industrial Robots. Only 5% of China's civilian airliners are made by COMAC which itself sources the engines, flight control units and avionics, electrical subsystems, etc from Western countries. They're working on domestic alternatives, but they'd have to also qualify those for flight in other countries. Which itself becomes a political issue when attempting to cut out Western suppliers.So basically, China can be the worlds factory and make lots of goods but they rely on a lot of imported machine tools, metrology equipment, tooling, specialized parts and assemblies, etc. It hard to say if they could entirely cut out foreign suppliers. They simply don't have entire generations of built up trade secrets and knowledge to do everything. They do already make most of the worlds PCBs though, electronics, etc. It's just what's the point of creating all these advanced machines and equipment when it's possible the only people that will buy them is China. They're bankrolling all these projects for political reasons and to be self sufficient in the current geopolitical climate because they have to. China will never be able to make European level wines, cheeses, and food goods. China doesn't have the same cultural allure that European clothing, leather, and watches goods have.
Correct, but for the wrong reasons.Farming more food than you need and shipping it abroad is just wasting your soil and water reserves. Its better for you to produce enough food for your own food in the country to be cheap, but dont produce enough to export. Let others deplete their soil.
ITT: cityslicker forgetting he has to eat>just import broWar and trade is over. What now?
>>542161318>the clothes im wearing now are of inferior cut and quality than what my ancestors wore.i see your point however in many ways this statement is not true
>>542171124this is nice on paper but when you produce more food than you need, the price of the food is lower. a country produced exactly as much food as it needed to feed all of its people, food would be extremely expensive. producing more is good because on top of making money from exporting it you also lower to price of the food (consider the enormous amount or food that literally just gets thrown out in western countries). when you produce more food than you need, it becomes, shall we say, a buyer's market for food, which is good because the alternative is mass hunger.
>>542156187>when did you realizes that farmers in america are absolute parasites?yeah, remeber your words time, when you will be trying to make Tesla into somethind edible
>>542156187Kill all city nigs like OP
>>542156187Isn't water for drinking and making food? What else is it for? Lawns?
>>542156187They're calling it the most Jewish post in history folks
>jews think you can eat gdp
>>542173096no it really is, fast fashion is bottom of the barrel trash. You'd have to go back more potentially several centuries to actually get back to the kind of quality you'd get in the 80s. You dont see the trope of a teenager wearing their dad's old suit anymore because clothes dont last that long anymore.
>>542174496i guess it kind of depends on where you got the clothes. if you got them from like, shein, then yeah they're probably garbage. if you got them from a name brand retailer like old navy, it's a safe bet that they are superior in a variety of ways to textiles made in early modern europe.
>>542156845They are parasites for as long as they poison the Earth, suck up subsidized resources, and grow non-edible "foods" such as corn, onions and wheat.
>>542171446Is he eating soi that's only made for cattle in china? Are you?
>>542169618Farmers growing soi (for cattle in china) is none of the food that OP buys in a supermarket.
>>542170819I disagree, I think that China will be able to do all type of technology, just like the West. Remember that when Japan started making cars and electronics it was the same, they first copied american technology and made low quality stuff but then they started developing their own technology. The discipline, working and studying mindset in China will make them be ahead of the West. Maybe what has happened in Europe happens in China in the future with people becoming lazier and weaker in general but for now they will have a more efficient system than us to put people to work hard.
>>542175372Japan doesn't make everything on their own and their semiconductor equipment companies aren't sanctioned to the point where they have to produce everything in house like China. Japan is part of the Western aligned world. That's the difference.China is making great progress though in many sectors. I'm just saying China has fundamental limitations that Taiwan, Korea, and Japan don't because of Geopolitics.
>>542156187Attack farmers at your own peril.
>>542156187>get this water almost for freeLOL wut? our water is 350 ft down and we have to drill down to it and then pump it out with V8 motors, all at our own expense. why are cityfaggots such fucking liars hahahaha.
Yeah, it's all the kulak's fault!
>>542156187I realised this a couple of years ago when British Farmers were kicking off and it forced me to actually research the Farming industry. Far too many people think that Farming is still humble salt of the Earth families carving out a living feeding the local community. Modern day Farmers are nothing but a pack of selfish entitled subsidised cunts who hate everyone else.
>>542156187Yeah basically 99% of flat soil in italy and most of europe has gone to either buildings or farming/grazing, there is basically no nature left. Imagine the amount of wildlife and millions of years old forests lost to this
>>542156187It's crazy how farmers are a cancer in every country
>>542177457Small Family owned farming in America is a meme. 87% of output and the vast vast majority go to big corporate farms.
>government (jews) fuck over farming and introduce unnecessary chemicals and pesticides to ((boost production)) while really patenting and disavowing any support for small farms and instead opting for large factory farms>every person in this thread complains how entitled farmers are when food is a necessity that has been coopted by kikes into poison and an abnormally inflated market
>>542177817I also hate having food
