If, on purely economic grounds, you are opposed to:>Automation via A.I automating tasks>Cheap labor>Offshoring>Free trade Or>Think spending money is good for the economy>Think lower unemployment is automatically a good thingThen you are an economic ignoramus.If you oppose some of these things for social or geopolitical reasons, that's one thing. Opposing immigrants because you hate looking at them, or hating free trade because of interdependence, makes sense... but be honest with your reasons.
>>542243891Imigrants are this century dutch disease desu.
>>542244025Dutch disease is a meme
>>542243891>ignoramusesignorami
>>542243891Explain how foreign labour benefits the working class.
>>542244825>ignoramus'
>>542243891Does "economic" describe the quality of human life, purposeful living, and happiness? Or only the bottom line on a (computerized) account spreadsheet?If the latter, then all sports and recreation should be automated for economic efficiency.
>>542245215"the thing that belongs to the ignoramus">fucking illiterates
>>542243891mass automation is bad for us, the proles, politicoeconomically speaking
>>542245222This is AI. If a bowling ball was thrown at that velocity, it would create sonic boom and explode.
>>542244983It increases productivity, which makes your the relative purchasing power of your labor higher. If there was nobody to produce things, your labor would carry very little value since there would be nothing to buy with the proceeds of your labor.
>>542245345
>>542245222No because the utility derived from bowling comes from the human doing it, and it offsets the cost of bowling, otherwise the human paying to bowl wouldn't do it.Since nobody is paying to watch an automated bowling game, it's not as efficient.
>>542245544>It increases productivityThat's AI/automation. Foreign labour just puts you out of work and lowers your wages otherwise. And what productivity if all the jobs are service-oriented and aren't actually productive?>If there was nobody to produce things, your labor would carry very little value since there would be nothing to buy with the proceeds of your labor.Now you're talking about offshoring. I asked how does foreign labour (immigration!) benefit the working class. Try again.
>>542245372>us>the prolesYour parents are literally above the bourgeois.And no, automation is better for the proles than anybody.
>>542245749Automation and foreign labor are both the same, they are ways to produce more with the same, or produce the same with less... they both skyrocket your wage.> And what productivity if all the jobs are service-oriented and aren't actually productive?That's real productivity. Producing garbage that can be made elsewhere isn't productive it's a waste of capital>Now you're talking about offshoring. I asked how does foreign labour (immigration!) benefit the working class. Try again.Already answered that.
>>542245845>Automation and foreign labor are both the sameNope. With only the former, the workers still need work to become consumers. With the latter, you've replaced the consumer base with one that accepts shittier conditions AND occupies real-estate on top of it (usually by cramming it full of their brownoid kind).>they both skyrocket your wage.No. Goods can become cheaper, but it doesn't make everything more affordable.>That's real productivity. Producing garbage that can be made elsewhere isn't productive it's a waste of capitalWhat makes you think that most of the service-oriented work we do isn't garbage? Whose life has been improved by goyslop and its delivery services?
>>542245345Romanes eunt domus
>>542243891I spoke with the means of production, and they have delegated me to deliver this message: u r gay
>>542243891Is it ok to just want a home, and a land plot, and for everyone else to fuck off, because I'm smart enough to maintain a sustainable farm and feed myself indefinitely?
>>542243891i don't care about economics, i care about my country and it's citizen's best interest not stateless global elites that suck up all your nations positives and magnify the negatives then complain about said negative outweigh the positives and flee to argenitna some shit like peter thiel.
>>542243891Why is it that all this shit that always works in theory never works in practice?We spend more money on AI than anyone else and have consistently offshored work and undercut local wages for decades and the "economic fruits" of such benefits are extremely concentrated to the point where almost nobody wants to support the status quo any more and the main political disagreements are about what actually needs to be done to fix it.>If you oppose some of these things for social or geopolitical reasons, that's one thing....What the fuck do you think economics is even for? If an economic system doesn't serve the society that it operates on, it's going to fail."Expertise societies" were a mistake that will be corrected pretty soon.
>>542249828>We spend more money on AI than anyone else and have consistently offshored work and undercut local wages for decades and the "economic fruits" of such benefits are extremely concentrated to the point where almost nobody wants to support the status quo any more and the main political disagreements are about what actually needs to be done to fix it.Since Trump has got in have prices gone down or up?This shit ONLY works in practice.
>>542243891Let's say there's a water jug factory. They make a million gallons per month.Suddenly, there's a new technology where they can produce double the amount for the same amount of time with no extra cost increase. Will they try to increase demand or decrease their prices?? NO.They will produce the same amount of product at the same price, but they will fire half of their staff because they are no longer needed.This is how automation works. There's only so much demand, so automation leads to job losses and higher profit margins and not lower prices.Have translation prices for customers fallen since AI can greatly speed up professional translators' work??? No. The translators have to work MORE to earn the same amount of money they did before.
>>542250713>They will produce the same amount of product at the same price, but they will fire half of their staff because they are no longer needed.That's a good thingAnd yes they will decrease their price because their cost of production is lower.Now everyone will save money on water, and that extra money saved can be used to demand new goods.>Only so much demandThat's where you're wrong, demand increases with supply. As we produce more and more things and more variety, we demand more. We have unlimited wants but limited resources.
>>542250857>We have unlimited wants but limited resources.Wrong! An old study before COVID stated that after about $70K/year income, income has diminishing returns on happiness. Now today that's probably $120K needed in equivalent, but you see my point.>And yes they will decrease their price because their cost of production is lowerWhy then when companies like Nike offshored their factories overseas, they didn't reduce their prices to match?? Their prices stayed the same.
Being against immigration because it lowers your wages is perfectly rational lmao even the austrians say so. The individual doesn't care about 'the economy' as a whole
>>542251129>Why then when companies like Nike offshored their factories overseas, they didn't reduce their prices to match?? Their prices stayed the same.They absolutely fell relative to wages, it's way easier to buy clothing now than before.In fact clothing has not only fallen in real terms but nominal terms. Clothing in $$$ is cheaper now than 2000.
>>542251224Being against immigration when it skyrockets your wage and quality of life is completely irrational.Immigration being good for wages is something Keynesians, Marxists, Austrians, and Monetarists agree on.
>>542251393>Being against immigration when it skyrockets your wage and quality of life is completely irrational.Yeah but you have no evidence that it does any of that. In fact since the hart celler act in the late 60's the wage and labour have become more and more decoupled. https://fredblog.stlouisfed.org/2023/03/when-comparing-wages-and-worker-productivity-the-price-measure-matters/Reality disagrees with your jewish fairy tales.
>>542251359>They absolutely fell relative to wages, it's way easier to buy clothing now than before.It's more like it stayed the same price. Same thing with video games. New video games used to be like $60 even in the 2000's. Now they are still $60 even though you earn more. However, everything important has gone up higher than wages have.>Clothing in $$$ is cheaper now than 2000.Mostly due to Temu and the like. Typical prices in typical Western stores with Western brands cost pretty much the same as they did in 2000.
>>542251626>In fact since the hart celler act in the late 60's the wage and labour have become more and more decoupled.You have zero proof of that, zero evidence, and zero argument>https://fredblog.stlouisfed.org/2023/03/when-comparing-wages-and-worker-productivity-the-price-measure-matters/This has been debunked 1000x times now it's considered a joke.Your fairytales aren't reality. Wages are higher now than ever before, it's just that cost of living has increased more in some aspects. So the problem isn't wages, it's cost of living, solve that, rather than wages.>>542251722>However, everything important has gone up higher than wages have.Then lets solve that problem, that's what we want to do, is solve it.>Mostly due to Temu and the like. Typical prices in typical Western stores with Western brands cost pretty much the same as they did in 2000.Because there was really no increase in efficiency or productivity in Western stores... TEMU actually is an increase in productivity, since the Chinese can make stuff for lower input costs than Westerners.
>Many people here are Economic IgnoramusesStarting with OP ancapflag 10 pbtid
>financetard babbleYou don't understand it either, nobody really does which is why financetard predictions are always wrong.
>>542251850>in Western storesThey're made in the same factories as the Temu stores. It's just that you are buying directly from the Chinks. But Western stores are charging you prices as if it were made in America but making it in the same Chinese factories. So the importer is the one making all of the money, and depending in the arrangement, the store too.
>>542251850>You have zero proof of that, zero evidence, and zero argumentHey nigger, Maybe you should look at my evidence as opposed to throwing a tantrum when you're proven wrong.
>>542252339Your temper tantrum isn't an argument, it's a concession.You didn't even read your own link.>>542252017Well they can be undercut by Temu, I guess customers are paying extra for the pleasure of buying it in a Western store.
>>542251932You have no skills which is why you don't make money.>>542251854You have no skills or education which is why you don't make money.
>>542252587>You didn't even read your own link.But you told me it's debunked lil retard.So is my link true or not. Since Hart caller has wages tracked with labour productivity or not
>>542243891Slavery was a great idea. Whoever thought talking monkeys were human need to have their ass removed. Salty jeet cunts can fuck right off too. Got it OP, just KYS.
>>542252731>Since Hart caller has wages tracked with labour productivity or notYes./thread
>>542253090>>Since Hart caller has wages tracked with labour productivity or not*LOUD INCORRECT BUZZER*Time to kill your self shylock.
>>542252607How many times are you going to change flags while snorting and shitting yourself about being stuck in the shit hole country of your own creation? Haha, what a fucking loser!
>>542243891Lowering the IQ of a country to 80 via immigration is an economic issue.
>>542253190https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTTWr1G1E4wBTFO, KYS
>>542253007You're a racist loser. Get off my thread
>>542243891I think burning mountains of money would be good for the economy
>>542253413Actually can be sometimes, and the FED sometimes does this, it's called QT
>>542253313Lmao
>>542253007Lol you called black people monkeys.No one is taking you seriously.
>>542253090Liar or just plain stupid?
>>542253695You're dumber than a box of rocks, calling people JEETs and blacks monkeys.
>>542253651They are but I was talking about you specifically.
>>542253735Call em' as I see em'. That's what we do here newfag. Gonna cry about it faggot?
>reeeeeee, get of my thread.
This is now a Hitler thread.
PSA:
>>542243891I hate immigrants on cultural reasons, simple as. There are solutions that exist to solve all the other problems that you're too ignorant to know about, but you jeets are simply incompatible with western culture because let's be honest, you're basically low IQ jews.
>>542254191>basically low IQ jewsTruth
>>542243891Automation is not ai. Ai is a translation tool at best. This is true for translations for other sectors or careers. A doctor, after going to school, should understand and use a different vocabulary. This is what the term "layman's speak" or "plain English" references for people speaking in terms that anyone can understand. Politics and fiction will reference "doublespeak". The floor for English is low and thus easy to learn. The ceiling is high. Foreigners learning English need to learn "rhetoric". But an ESL's understanding of rhetoric vs a natural English speaker will be wildly different. Rhetoric is also different depending on English region like the UK, Australian, et cetra.
>>542243891>immigrants and outsourcing suppress labor markets >which decreases consumer buying power >and increases wealth inequality>rich people use their wealth to undermine our democracy>and hoard all the assets>which makes assets overvalued >which creates an economic bubble>that eventually pops and causes a recession>which causes inflation to spike>and weakens the US dollar on the world stage>which weakens our position>and leads to pointless wars and political instability world wideAlso I hate jeets niggers and spics. That's the main reason why.
>>542243891non-Marxist "economics" is a fake science which boils down to 'do whatever makes rich people more money' and ignores important factors like distribution and bargaining power
Even with the entire International Banking Cartel against him, Hitler's economic model worked exceedingly well for Germans and Germany. No other has even come close.
>>542254709To be fair, in the modern economy, the Proletariat is powerless. A coal mine owner in 1910 had to pay his workers more when they all went on strike or get immigrant scabs to lower wages. Nowadays, they do the latter, but at a MUCH bigger scale for jobs, people not even on the same continent. AND they can just replace you with AI.A huge factor too is modern people have less options. If you didn't like your job in 1910, you could fuck off and live as a hobo living in a boarding house and just doing odd jobs. Nowadays, that's not allowed. You HAVE to have a job.
>>542253286>here watch this 1h30m long live stream recording of a guy at a desk who I can't be bothered credentialing>you won't sit through it and write a detailed, meticulously-sourced rebuttal to every point he raises?>Guess I win again!You don't appear to understand your beliefs well enough to defend them. Forgivable given even your expert requires over 90 minutes of dry rambling to get them across for you. You don't have time to explain yourself but you expect others to spend that much of theirs just to 'hear you out?' And that's your 'slam dunk?' I don't believe you're here in good faith. All you do is scoff, dismiss and belittle, eager to attack but vague when pressed.By contrast your opponent provided a concise article and a sourced graph supporting what he asserts. I think you're a disingenuous time-wasting troll and that your position is the weaker one. Perhaps that was your intention all along.
>>542243891Fuck the economy. Total libertarian death.
Why the fuck is this thread more dismal than usual
>>542256929wow sex.
>>542243891?it’s because you have this idea in your head that all elements of the economy should be geared towards growth, as opposed to all elements geared towards its people.The countries that follow your philosophy can no longer put together a fighting force because no one wants to die for abstractions about gdp and profit.
