The universe couldn't have just created itself right?And in theory something had to create it right?But creating something before the start of the universe must be extremely difficult, it would have had to be some type of power that can transcend time AND matter.Even then, lets say the universe was first, something must have created the first element right? You must be pretty powerful to create an element from nothingnesst. Agnostic but might be awakening im not sure
Yes if something happens then SOMEONE must have done it. Just like every evil in the world must have been puppeteered by Jews
>>542261212Lurk 4 more years you're way to retarded
>Which came first the chicken or the egg?
>>542261212If it's true that matter and energy can't be created or destroyed, then the universe is simply eternal and needs no creator. Maybe there is a server admin but who knows.
>>542261254too*
>>542261212there is no creation or destruction. nobody created or destroyed any matter or energy. everything always was.>But creating something before the start of the universe must be extremely difficult, it would have had to be some type of power that can transcend time AND matter.time is a measure of change. you cannot have change without time, makes no sense. cause/effect implies time. time started with the big bang. there was no time before it. therefore no change. no cause. everything just is. always was really.since time started with the big bang, then saying everything always was makes perfect sense. since always starts with time. which started with the big bang.
>>542261243Pretty much proving the point that there is a God and kikes desperately want you to deny him so they can regain their place in the sun.
>>542261212Why does the universe need to be created if it's illogical from the start? It's all glueballs my friend
>>542261212Yes. If you want to read books, check out Dr. Henry Morris. If you want to just listen, Kent Hovind is a heretic, but he basically just repeats Henry Morris in an entertaining wayhttps://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLhqj8hlCFT2fWOC34_FanlZH-CUzvadDX
>>542261254I have been lurking for years thats why im asking this question nowT. Oldfag from 2014
Read Plato and Aristotle, you absolute brainlet. It's called the unmoved mover/prime mover/One/Absolute. Then read Parmenides and realize that nothing does not exist and that in all likelihood we exist within an infinite/eternal continuum that has never not been, never came into existence, and will never cease to exist. It simply always is.
>>542261286Thats called Steady State Theory and no one believes it. Read a book
>>542261212>The universe couldn't have just created itself right?The universe can't create itself but God can magically create himself. The universe can't come out of nothing and needs God to create it, but not God. This is where the theist pretends not to understand.
>>542261437OP is agnostic
>>542261436That's not steady state theory retard.
>>542261436fuck does it matter if you believe it or not lmao
>>542261212We don't know what happened before the singularity exploded. The only ones claiming that "nothing exploded" are chriggers who mistake it for their own theology
>>542261486Yes it is, idiot.>>542261489No one believes it and it's ridiculed
>>542261212>The universe couldn't have just created itself right?Why not?
>>542261320Big Bang is kabbalistic fantasy science. Most theoretical astrophysics is. Astronomy is just as occult as astrology, the difference is, it is far more evil.
>>542261519No it's not tardfag.
CausalityMaxxermaybe it don't work that way...One thing "causing" another lol that's an oversimplification to say the least. There is never a single cause, there may be a proximate cause (immediately proceeding the effect) but this is different. as per usual, human folly attributable to ignorance
>>542261577Sorry that I exposed you as a complete fool, but this just exposes that you never talk to anyone irl and just spread your bullshit anonymously online. Reflect on that.
>>542261572>Studying space is evil
>>542261577Forgot pic
>>542261437>The universe can't create itself but God can magically create himselfWell the thing is, in order to create the universe you have to be able to ascend time since the universe only goes forward. So if you can ascend time or somehow not account it into the equation, you should be able to create yourself, since there was no time from before when you didn't exist
>>542261212The universe doesn't need a creation point. It doesn't need to have an initial mover, a birth, it could always just been in motion. And God doesn't need to be found at such non existent beginning, God is everywhere, a temporal, and eternal.
>>542261212>The universe couldn't have just created itself right?IT WAS AN ACCIDENT
>>542261212What created the creator?
>>542261519>No one believes it and it's ridiculeddoesn't matter what you or anyone believes. universe just is, in a way. regardless of what you think about it.if every single human on this planet thinks and votes something is real, universe don't give a shit about it, it literally discards your opinion. the only power you have is to get it right, or get it wrong. if you get it right sometimes you can do useful shit with it.
>>542261638>>542261627>anon can't articulate his point>anon thinks that sharing a premise makes two unlike things the sameYour mother must have guzzled gasoline when pregnant with you to be this stupid lmao
>>542261642You're not even saying anything at all. Either God existed forever (no explanation how) or he popped out of nothingness. The real truth is that this topic is meaningless philosophy, and philosophy is trash.
>>542261759>religious folks and secular academia reject my theory, but I'm smarter than them
>>542261730LOVE
>>542261820Explain what Steady State Theory is, kike. Or take the L. You sound like Andrew Wife'sSon with your coping.
>>542261911>we can't all be wrongyes you can
>>542261212This is why Deism is the thinking man’s religion
>>542261212God couldn't just have created itself, right?In theory, something had to create it, right?But creating something before the start of God must be extremely difficult, it would have had to be some type of power that can transcend time AND matter.Even then, let's say God was first, something must have created the first element, right? You must be pretty powerful to create an element from nothingnesst. Agnostic but might be awakening I'm not sure
>>542261999SELF-CREATED
>>542261943Not my burden of proof. You can't explain what Steady State is, yet it's your claim that I said anything about it, which I didn't. Your insipid retard brain is misidentifying something you don't understand. You're arguing that a shared premise makes two different conclusions the same because you're a faggot who has an IQ of 84.
>>542261212if there was ever truly nothing, there would be nothing to begin, nothing to begin in, and nothing to begin from. nothing cannot be
>>542261999>God couldn't just have created itself, right?to create something means it didn't exist before, so a thing cannot create itself since it doesn't exist.also creation is a nonsensical idea. it doesn't exist. it's human mind brainrot.humans think if they put one shit on top of another shit they created something. that is not creation. that is arranging already existing stuff.creation means making matter/energy out of literal nothing. anything else is not creation, it's arrangement of existing stuff.creation is a fantasy, a theory at most, never been witnessed. it's not something that even makes the sense you think it does, it's human brainrot.
>>542262035Why can God self-create but not the universe?>because jew says so!Oh
>>542262093BIRDS MADE IT
>>542262042We're not debating, kike. I asked you to define a term and you dodged it like Andrew Wife'sSon. Pathetic.
>>542262119I asked you to define the term as it's your burden of proof lmao, you dumb fuck. How stupid are you? You're arguing that a shared premise makes two different conclusions the same because you're a faggot who has an IQ of 84.
BIRDS WILL DESTROY IT
Parmenides' On Nature. Read it.
>>54226215184 IS GOOD
>>542261212Ive started leaning to there not being a someone as in human intelligence like God is depicted as but more the universe itself. And that our lives are just little bits of cosmic dust either hallucinating or is the universe conciousness larping or whatever. Like when I have a dream and I am imagining people that don't exist living entire lives in my dream world.Hard to explain. I think it is the basic idea of the elder scrolls universe.
>>542262151I defined the term here, in my very first post, you mentally ill kike. Lmao >>542261436
Why are you people so afraid of thr idea that we just don't know what created the universe yet? Why does there have to be an answer right now, when our species is still in it's intellectual and technological infancy? You're like a bunch of toddlers that get mad when you find out the sun isn't actually following you.
>>542262245No you didn't.Let's test your IQ: Can two different ideas hold a shared premise?
>>542262353Define Steady State Theory or shut the fuck up, kike.
>>542262312IT WAS AN ACCIDENT. WE ARE TRYING TO FIX IT
>>542262362>incapable of answering questionThank you for proving you are retarded you illiterate pajeet lmao, turn off your meme flag Raj.
>>542262312not sure why anyone is stresses about creation of the universe. or why anyone thinks it was "created'. makes no sense. it's a linguistic issue and scientists are to blame for it.there is no reason to need the universe to be "created". most people just cannot understand this.they think if they shit in the toilet they "created" the shit ergo the universe must have been "created" just like they created the shit in their toilet.this is fundamental logic issue and almost nobody seems to understand it. the universe doesn't need an explanation of existing. because there's nothing else similar to it. nobody created shit ergo something must have created everything. that's not how it works, it's just linguistic and logical issue that is very hard to explain to people. their brains default to asking something which is nonsensical.
>>542262403>I won't answer your question but I'll stomp my feet if you don't answer mineOk Andrew Wife'sSon. Go back to Discord now.
>>542262440THERE IS A DESIGN, THERE ARE CREATORS
>>542261212>God can be eternal and existence can't be eternal because.... it just can't ok?!
I want to believe in God but why does he give such a fuck about me masturbating?
>>542262093We will get our answers when we get to the center of the universe which is where everything is theorized to have started.
>>542262582>CREATORSwhat does it mean to create lucifer larper? you cannot even explain the concept without being logically wrong. the creation word is misused in this context. it's an analog for arranging. there is no creation, there never was creation in the sense you are thinking. it's not a valid idea.>i create artno you don't, you arrange particles. those shapes trigger certain particle activities in our brains. everything is particle interaction. already existing particles. they always existed as particles of one type or another. they weren't "created" because the concept is nonsense.
>>542262633PERVERSIONS DEFILE THE MIND, MASTURBATION DISSIPATES CREATIVE ENERGY
God created time and space - He transcends it. Hard for us to understand because we see everything through time in chronology. Like a bacteria trying to understand speaking. Anyway, read Mere Christianity and the Everlasting Man if you're curious. Jesus Christ is the stumbling block of history, and He is the one true God.
>>542262723CREATION MEANS CREATION. A PYRAMID IS A CREATION. A TREE IS A CREATION. A LEAF IS A CREATION.
>>542262044so then how could an infinitely long past have already occurred for us to arrive at this current moment?The problem doesn’t go away that easy Norgie
>>542262633>why does he give such a fuck about me masturbating?it's answered here:>>542262767>MASTURBATION DISSIPATES CREATIVE ENERGYthe translation is you work less for your masters, lower productivity. slaves should give all their energy to their masters, not enjoy it for themselves. therefore it's forbidden. the only accepted use is to create more slaves such as yourself, then it's understandable.
>>542262848YOU ARE A MASTURBATOR WHO DOES NOT BELIEVE CREATION IS EVEN POSSIBLE.
>>542261275Its simply the egg
>>542262836>CREATION MEANS CREATIONdoesn't sound as smart as you think luciferlet>>542262836>A PYRAMID IS A CREATIONnot really, it's an ARRANGEMENT of already existing matter>>542262836>A TREE IS A CREATION. A LEAF IS A CREATIONnope, arrangements of particles driven by sun's low entropy energy.why do brainlets think they can into logic?
>>542261243These kinds of posts only further confirm that jews are in fact demons and not people
>>542261437>The universe can't create itself but God can magically create himself. The universe can't come out of nothing and needs God to create it, but not God. This is where the theist pretends not to understand.This is the most baffling part about theists' argument.>Something as complex as the universe must have had a creator because... because it just does ok?So why doesn't the same position apart apply to a god requiring a creator>That's beyond human comprehension
>>542261212Anon. Assume an ontological premise. The things that plainly are can witness to what is not immediately made known. You and I have a limited epistemic scope, and Kant liked to think that the limit of being unable to totally understand reality, because you are processing it from within it, is a flaw. It’s literally supposed to be like that if you are not God, And none of us are. The entire point of the law in the Bible was to show you that in a moral context. Evil is a misorientation expressing itself against an absolute. There is nothing ontologically evil. The issue is man assumes expression in this context is moral ontology. It’s a category error, we’re limited by our epistemic scope, but it doesn’t mean that God doesn’t exist, agnosticism likes to pretend like because the limit to derivative ontology is there, there is no absolute, that does not follow, is paradoxical and almost philosophically childish and incredibly naive. Since when can you have an intelligible universe that exceeds the scope of your understanding but never the less be totally comprehensible to everything currently within it? You don’t need to know everything to know God.
>>542262900A PYRAMID IS A PYRAMID. A PYRAMID IS A CREATION. A PYRAMID HAS A DESIGN AND A CREATOR.
>>542261212There's definitely peculiar occurrences that are so improbable that it seems like someone is fucking with you. But even that might be some kind of primitive rationalization
>>542262940Plato disagrees with you
>>542261212Congrats you are uncommonly smart for a mutt. You Just found out the primary mover Argument.
>>542262886>WHO DOES NOT BELIEVE CREATION IS EVEN POSSIBLE.well, there's no proof of such a thing. prove it, create or destroy energy/matter. you'd get a lot of money and a few Nobels, at least.
>>542262957IMHOTEP AGREES WITH ME. DID PLATO DESIGN A PYRAMID
>>542261437>>542261642>>542261844God was never created. He simply always existed. Existence didn’t define God, God defined existence. Without God, there can’t be existence. Because it’s literally defined by His presence
>>542262940a pyramid has people who took a bunch of rocks and stacked them on top of eachother. already existing rocks mind you. that they rearranged into some shape. cool feat nevertheless, but not creation. merely arrangement.
>>542263013Classical theism and biblical anthropology remain undefeated against naturalists that terminate everything in brute fact with teleology they straight up pulled out of their ass.
>>542263013the universe was never created. It simply always existed. Existence didn’t define the universe, the universe defined existence. Without the universe, there can’t be existence. Because it’s literally defined by Its presencefunny how that works out just the same, innit
>>542261212A higher order intellect's contemplation of the tragic nature of the human condition evokes insight into a power greater than oneself. You go ahead and get excited about sparks in the void though.
>>542263079No, you just renamed God and pretended you retorted his point. Think shitheads haven’t literally said almost word for word what you’re arguing? I literally encountered the same arguement 2 months ago on a kike thread ranting about Christ.
>>542262440>>542262900>an arrangementInteresting way of putting it. Would you say the same about your thoughts about this subject that you expressed here? Were they created by your mind or are they an arrangement of matter causing your neurons to produce a certain thought pattern?I do agree that we are limited in our understanding of things by seeing everything through what makes sense to us. Just see how most of these people will consider logic to be this absolute truth that guides everything instead of taking a step back and understand it's the process of our minds that forms the baseline of our cognition but there's no reason why everything in the universe has to conform to human logic.
>>542263100>sparks in the voidYeah who tf is doing that
>>542261300I think he means [on his way] to retarded>>542261212>the universe couldn’t have created itselfAnd why not? More far fetched than that is who created god? Maybe the universe has always been.
>>542262982Well the only gray-area where you could really argue that we possess the same creative ability as God would be in the context of the mind. To me this is a pretty solid pointer that indicates God as a unique agent of mind.
>>542261572>Created by catholic priest>KabbalisticLive Freud reaction
>>542263112I know your programming resists any reasonable argument.if it didn't it wouldn't have survived for this long anon. that's the whole point of it. be resistent in face of evidence of the contrary, to control your behavior to serve for a purpose.you're basically flexxing you dronemaxxed.
>>542263120>>542263164Chispas!
>>542263164Sputters of an imprecise machine
>>542263112He didn't rename anything. God means a conscious creator being. If you pretend it means something else you're just doing rhetoric and being dishonest.
>>542261212Is the tsunami wave powerful? Yes it is. Who creates tsunami waves? Or is it natural occurency?QED fucking low IQ retarded mutt.
>>542263021THE DESIGN AND CREATION OF FORMS REQUIRES INTELLIGENCE AND SPIRIT
>>542263120yeap, everything is particle and particle interactions. it's really that simple, if you want to synthesize it that way.you cannot have anything without particles and particle interactions. anything you will try to give as example requires particles and particle interactions. literally everything. thoughts, information, all of it requires particles and...you guessed it, particle interactions. you cannot point to anything that isn't mediated by particles and yes, again, particle interactions.
>>542261365Thats cancerfag/newfag era
>>542263254Of course it would be something personal because we're so special that we need to be contacted directly
>>542263236Would you like to offer some type of rebuttal
>>542263264get lost drone
>>542263300Trying to explain sparks in the void
>>542263267I like the idea that creation doesn't exist and everything is an arrangement, it's a funny way to put it. But I offer some pushback just to see how far you are willing to own it. For fun. So when someone makes a beautiful music or expresses amazing creativity in some way you would still say they didn't create a song but instead arranged their neural patterns in a way to give rise to this song?I don't know if I like that, it's disconcerting. It makes me feel warm inside to think some great things/ideas are created by the mind.
>>542263313MATTER AND SPIRIT ARE ETERNALFORMS ARE CREATIONS
>so what if it's flat, why does it matter!?
>>542261212>Mahat (Cosmic Intelligence): Known as the "great principle," Mahat is the very first evolutionary product when unmanifest matter (Prakriti) is stirred by consciousness (Purusha). It is the blueprint of creation, holding the wisdom of the entire universe.>Buddhi (Individual Intellect): Buddhi is your personal inner wisdom, judgment, and the capacity to make decisions. It is an individualized drop of the great ocean that is Mahat.>In Hermeticism, the Logos is the divine, rational word and creative power bridging the transcendent universe (The All) and the human soul. It operates both outside the individual as an objective cosmic order and inside as an innate capacity for speech, reason, and awakening.>In ancient Egyptian mythology, Hu (or Ḥw) was the personification and deification of the first authoritative word of creation spoken by the creator god. He represented divine utterance, command, and the magical power of the spoken word.>Hermes/Thoth travels between realms, the planetary energy of Mercury bridges the macrocosm (the divine divine source) and the microcosm (the human intellect).>Hermetic philosophy views the inner logos as the spark of divine reason residing inside humanity; Mercury governs the psychological and spiritual faculties required to perceive, translate, and internalize this higher truth.>In Vedic astrology, the planet Mercury (Budha) directly corresponds to buddhi (the intellect, analytical mind, and discriminative faculty).>In ancient Egyptian religion, the Memphite Theology describes Ptah creating the universe through the dual power of his heart (thought) and his tongue (speech).Youre looking for the Word.
>>542263423Shaddap gimmie some evidence, surely you've pulled something off that's not schizophrenia
>>542263318What is there to “try” and explain? This is settled as of 1,000 years ago. Avicenna ring any bells?
>>542263406you encode "ideas" in interactions. you flick the guitar string, makes sounds, moves air around, reaches your ears, your brain decodes it as something, gives you the warm fuzzies.it requires a brain which is a particle arrangement with all kinds of interactions, it requires the guitar, the air, it requires your brain, and it triggers some particle interactions in it.none of it is possible without particles and particle interactions. you do realize this don't you?
>>542263463LOOK AROUND. DO YOU SEE FORMS? MADE OF MATTER?
>>542262042He said you sound like andrew wilson and you immediately reply with his catch phrase NOT MY BURDEN.are you trying to be ironic?
>>542263485Cop out, unless you worship nuclear fission as divine or something
WHAT CREATES AND PERCEIVES FORMS?
>>542263485Yeah, he stole it from Plato. And why do you think that causality is a universal rule?
>>542263540You're pretty normie for a guy called Lucifer
>>542261212Yes but it also created pajeets and niggers, so its not strictly benevolent.
>>542261320Lets assume the big bang is true. An infinitely dense particle explodes outward. Ah but we know how particles move. The double slit test has implications here since the observer (we can argue over the definition of observer later) affects whether a particle travels through all open paths or a singular path. This would imply either an infinite multiverse (all paths) or something outside of space time was able to observe the big bang into existence. Don't jump to infinite multiverse yet my angsty atheist frens. One of the infinite universes would necessarily contain a being that transcends space time and has therefore observed the big bang (they see all time as a flat disc) and is therefore paradoxically the creator. Within the infinite His name would inevitably be Jesus and He loves you enough to die for you. >"The first gulp from the glass of natural sciences will turn you into an atheist, but at the bottom of the glass God is waiting for you."
>>542263609Sometimes I have fun.
>>542263406all of human information, passed down through particles interacting, orally, written, arranging them in all sorts of ways. in wood, on paper, carved in rock.even in computers today, on SSDs, you have electric charges bunched up in cells, that we decode as a binary 1, or lack of them as 0. everything requires particles and their interactions, for anything you could possibly think of.
>>542263524When 10 billion people look at a problem and 1 of them is a genius who comes up with a creative solution that sounds baffling and beyond the pale to the other 99%, I like to think of his ideas as something unique that was created by his mind.You can vaguely describe how his idea came to be but the fact of the matter is that you can't yet exactly describe how such an idea forms. Until that moment comes I dont' see the problem with saying the idea was created. I guess we're talking about 'free will'. The day you can accurately describe these processes is the day you can predict future human behavior and totally destroy the idea of free will. I don't like that, I like the idea of free will.
>>542263659Actually the universe being so empty of science fiction style energy sprites or advanced lifeforms is also evidence that this universe can't support that kind of stuff
>>542262508Turn off your meme flag poopjeet.
>>542263556>Cop out, unless you worship nuclear fission as divine or somethingIt’s not a cop out. Maybe you accept his propositions on a deistic basis rather than a theistic one, but that still proves that we are left with a cosmological model that necessitates an agent, who is timeless, and immaterial. If you don’t like calling that thing “God” then that’s your own prerogative.>>542263594>he stole it from PlatoThat’s a very Israeli way to look at philosophical inheritance.>what makes you think that causality is a universal rule?Inductive and deductive reasoning.
>>542263672math doesn't. there are immaterial and formless realms.
>>542263659infinity doesn't mean anything you can think of. it merely means anything that is possible with the laws of this universe.imagine an infinite universe of tic tac toe. you would have repeating games forever, but you will never have a juicy stake in it. it makes no sense. in an infinite tic tac toe universe only one of 9 moves are possible at any time. shit just repeats ad infinitum using the same rules.so an infinite universe doesn't have to have a god like thing in it.
>>542263762Something existed before the fundamental unit of time? Do you worship a ball of infinitely dense energy?
>>542263757Safe bet the masturbating word juggler is posting from Israel
>>542263784there are infinite gods. You are Israeli, eh?
>>542263751not sure why you're so caught up in it.there'a lot of stochastic processes in this universe. with a lot of humans and a lot of stochastic events in one's brain you can have a random idea that makes sense. it's merely in the set of possible moves.I don't see how explaining how someone has a genius idea validates my theory or not. they're unrelated.free will is not a logical concept, it's not logically consistent. it's early primitive philosophy that religion hijacked.you have freedom of choice, more or less. and the universe has some stochastic events, thus the future is not determined.notice in this thread how a lot of primitive people default to religious concepts and get angry when they're dismissed.
>>542263609He's just here to make sure your mind doesn't wander away from ball earth.
>>542263835>Something existed before the fundamental unit of time?No lol. Please, my friend, look into how it is that we define and denominate time.In the absence of matter, there is no way to measure time. >it still passes if we can’t measure it thoThat’s not a settled subject of debate.
>>542263909The implication being that a being existed outside of the observable universe, of which there's no evidence for. But I guess we could be a drop of water on some leaf
>>542263898>and it hates Free WillApproaching 100% Israeli probability
>>542262894Which came first, the shell, the eggwhite or the yolk?
>>542263974>Free Willyou forgot the ™ there buddy
they hate Free Will and the Gods, and attempt to deceive people with words. Who are they?
>>542264002Egg white duh
>>542264020My Will is Free. Can we see your flag?
>>542264073Listen all I'm asking for is a handwritten letter
>>542264073can you please logically define free will for the class anon? I'm sure some anons here would love to hear it
>>542263972No sir, that’s not the implication.The implication is, however, as follows:>we are left with a cosmological model that necessitates an agent, who is timeless, and immaterial.I don’t know who or what that immaterial agent is.I will tell you, though, that anyone who claims to know about the character of our ‘creator’ is just spewing conjecture.
>>542264073Globalists.
>>542261212It really might just be random.
>>542264081Change attitude
>>542264118you must always will or you die. you have no choice but to choose, or else. we're determined to choose. if we don't, that is a choice in itself, and every choice has a consequence.what you chose, and why, that is based on what you think you want to achieve, why, some randomness, environmental factors etc.but do explain to the class, logically, what your free will is, please.
>>542264142I do what I want. I think what I want. There is no force compelling me to do anything, and there are no restrictions on my spirit.
>>542261212You (me) are the only manifestation of consciousness in this universe. We are all just brain-antennaes receiving and decoding the universal consciousness field. This applies to people, animals, plants, mold, rocks. The difference in how this manifests lies in the sophistication of our antennaes. For example, minute structural and genetic differences result in distinct harmonics in an individual - producing different personalities in human beings. Taking psychedelic drugs can produce profound changes to the frequency filter, demuxing nearly all spectral consciousness fields simultaneously. Regardless, long story short - we are all essentially the same person, just experiencing that person through a different lens. When you die, your particular combination of universal consciousness frequencies dissipates, but the universal consciousness persists - eternal. You are everyone and everything.
>>542264193>There is no force compelling me to do anythingkek, sure buddy. apart from your convictions. that randomly set in your brain
>>542264153Worshipping the material itself isn't enough to claim it's devine. That's just macro/micro animism, which is a projection. There would still have to be some kind of actor, which can't be explain by going "wow gravity"
>>542264192I have already died. My Will remains Free.
The problem is that you are assuming the universe was created, as in everything needs to be created. I fail to see why would that need to be the case. Hypothetically he universe could have existed forever, hence never created.
There's only two possibilities. Either an uncreated deity created time from outside it, or the present is eternal and potentially (not actually) infinite. These are literally the only two options. Pick your poison.
>>542264225I created myself. My convictions are my own.
>>542264230>some nonsense answerplease I beg you anon, explain how free your will is, completely uninfluenced by nothing, and how that is not the actual definition of insanity
>>542264251Well it is inexplicable, the trouble is figuring out if somebody shook the snow globe or not
>>542264258surely you haven't read anything written by anyone else, did you? never ... heard anything else anyone said to you? never...seen anything that would influence your "convictions", did you?
>>542262837denying that the universe arose from absolute nothing does not imply time must extend infinitely backward
>>542264273My Will is Free. I think what I want. Don't you? Where are you posting from?
>>542264295It's possible it reaches a maximum distance and then collapses back in on itself in cycles
>>542264291I read lots of things, and then I contemplate what I read, freely. Are you a mindless robot?
>>542263898>a random idea that makes senseI don't believe anything is 'random' in the sense that it's commonly used. If everything is material then it stands to reason that if you had infinite knowledge nothing would be 'random'. 'Random' just means 'unknown'. If we were both on the same room right now and I flipped a coin and we decide to bet on heads or tails, the reason we consider it 'random' is because there's no way we could calculate the result. But if I had infinite knowledge I could calculate it. So that's why I have a problem with the word 'random' in general.The reason this is relevant and not a nitpick is because you are implying that there are arrangements of matter that are randomly causing ideas to emerge but I think these ideas are created by you.I don't really have a defense for it I just think it's harmful to us to believe otherwise. I like to think I'm the creator of my ideas.
>>542261212If the Holy Spirit enters you then the existence of God becomes undeniable.
>>542264284I would rather figure out things for what I have thesis for. God has none.
>>542263762>Inductive and deductive reasoningPlease do tell why is causality an universal rule, especially on the quantum level and for your god
>>542264303>My Will is Free.awful lot of ™s in your replies that's for sure>I think what I wantno you don't, you have been programmed like a good little drone. you have less freedom of choices than people who don't believe in your ™ bullshitalso do notice my use of "freedom of choice", it's not by mistake.see, what we really have is freedom of choice, which can be constricted or expanded. the people selling ™ are looking to restrict this freedom of choice, and determine you choose what they want you to choose. it's quite the opposite really, one of the biggest scams.if you start thinking in terms of freedom of choice, you start to notice how they are taking those choices from you, leaving you with just a few convenient ones to choose from, using of-course, your Free Will ™. or else. kek
>>542264228But you must understand that, due to the prime mover(primum movens) argument, there must be a condition of the being that was prior to the existence of matter, and in that condition there would be no time either. Thus you needn’t, as you put it, “worship matter” because matter is not the uncreated source of all being. Matter is rather a created thing.The question I’d like you to answer for a change is how do you answer the problem of infinite regression in your own ontological worldview/understanding?
>>542264427My Will is Free. You sound like a mindless robot and I think you're covering up an Israeli flag.
>>542264295I thought you were implying the opposite
>>542264379of-course there are random events, stochastic more exactly. just study some quantum physics. it's literal science.if that's too abstract for you, then study radioactive decay, another stochastic process.if you want to know more about the human brain, know that it samples brownian noise. I read some studies a few years back that there's actually a strong corelation between IQ and how much brownian noise is sampled. also this stochastic noise is crucial to how good AIs perform, obviously, since they're trying to do the same thing in a sense.so yeah, the higher this stochastic noise sampling the higher the IQ, and thus your ever sought after genius ideas if you will.one just has to start actually learniing instead of consuming slop, and one can start to understand what is going on.
>>542264511this poster is Soulless
>>542264422I have to sleep with my wife now but make a thread tomorrow at a similar time and we’ll pick up where we left off
>>542261212this poem from rigveda is also about this question from 3000yrs agoi feel like universe is always existing infinite and there are multiuniverse which bang , expand or die a cold deaththis question on nothingness is what lead us to the creation of 0 number in india and search of it has been the basic fundamental of Question of Dharma based religions!
>>542264476you behave like a drone anon. at no point in our interactions did you leave any impression you are willing to change your ideas in face of new information.that is legit drone behavior, completely and utterly determined. your message is clear, there is nothing that could change your mind.which says it all isn't it? you're a literal joke
>>542263885I just gotta say, I used to be an edgelord like this and I had a profound experience that made me change my waysAbrahamic religions sure do have a way of just hooking people
>>542262900A song isn't an arrangement of particles it is entirely conceptual. Note a song isnt the same thing as a recording of a song.
>>542264448Purely theoretically that must be the 5th dimension. Then your "god" is a grain in the 5th dimension or something
>>542261212Look up the univocity of Being. Being itself must proceed the existence of either God or Nature, because both must be existent in exactly the same way (there is no partial existence, it's all or nothing). It then comes down to whether there is a necessary existent
>>542264704>proceedprecede
>>542264634a song is your perception. that is what we call a song. certain sounds we hear in certain order. sound is merely air molecules bumping in eachother, bumping in your eardrum, triggering other particles to move around reaching and triggering your neurons
>>542261212The beginning is created in the end.
>>542264742cyclical universe could also be possible, resets everything once in a while.
>>542264790It's an open loop, consciousness evolves to the point it can create the circumstances for It's own birth and evolution. It exists because it's a possibility for it to exist.
>>542261212Nope not necessarily. The entire universe can be one system of chaos which through pure chance over time entered into a state which we would consider coherent.
>>542264511There are objections to the example you are giving about radioctive decay and quantum physics. I'm not going to pretend to be familiar with it since I just looked it up but it's called the De Broglie-Bohm theory.Anyways the idea that our understanding of quantum physics is extensive enough to assert that randomness is a thing... doesn't have enough merit to it. The first thing they will tel you in a quantum physics class is that you will never understand it. Also it seems ludicrous to claim that human beings are somehow cognitively capable of figuring out the answers to all material things. 'Randomness' is all that is unknown or unknowable, from this point of view.I am not familiar with our understanding of brown noise and IQ but I would of course accept the idea that some people have a certain arrangement of neural pathways and connections that makes their minds more conducive to come up with ground-breaking ideas in specific fields of their mastery. At this point it feels a bit semantic to argue if these ideas are 'created' or not, and does it really matter? Until we can predict future human actions with satisfying accuracy I will be a proponent of free will and against randomness. I don't use 'free will' in the spiritual manner religious people do but rather it just means to say our will is free from knowledge because our will is unknowable to us. The only way I'm changing this position is by being proven wrong through demonstrable precise predictions of future behavior.
>>542261212>So in theory there should be a god right?Sure. But I doubt it's a bearded kike in the sky.Most likely some cosmic horror beyond our comprehension, which (thankfully) doesn't give any number of shits about us.
>>542265251The poster literally just used arrangement and creation interchangeably. Do you think someone sitting down and drawing a picture doesn’t know, if he stops to think about it, that wverything he is using to make the drawing including his memory of anatomy and so on isn’t a culmination of an arrangement of an arrangement and so on? It doesn’t really matter what term you use. It’s just semantic arguments at the end of the day.
>>542264656yeah multiverse theory is pretty gay, all universes started as 1 dimensional points and transitioned to the higher dimension. The "5th dimension" isn't actually a thing, it's the entropy of the 1 dimensional explosion
>>542261275The cell.It’s always smaller building blocks that lead to bigger things in this universe.
>>542265531Hmm... But the starting point of this argument is the idea that nothing is ever 'created' but rather 'arranged'. Which is a funny idea that I might employ myself in the future. When looking at outside things like arranging matter into a planet or a tree it makes sense but when it comes to giving rise to ideas it feels weird. I don't really have a good argument against it other than claiming that knowing our own will in full is impossible because we are not able to look inwards like that. So the same way we say something is 'random' we might as well say some things are 'created'. It's really all based on lack of knowledge imo. I'm sure all of these objections can be articulated in a much cleaner way so I apologize for what I feel is a muddy argument I'm making here.
>>542261275The egg, by either millions of years or a a day or so. Depending on who you ask.
>>542261212Soon we'll argue whether the Great Pyramids also had creators or whether they happened by a fluke of the universe. Deism is the bare minimum one should believe. The REAL question is what God wants from us.
>>542266893We know the Pyramids were built because they look so much different to the land around them. But this doesn't apply to existence itself because there's nothing else to compare to. If everything is designed, then 'designed' stops being a worthwhile descriptor. At that point you're basically saying 'Existence exists.'
>>542261212>i dont understand X so it was magic
>>542267285Who says "everything" is designed. Plenty of material is floating around with no apparent use. Besides the absence of alternatives doesn't nullify the notion of intention unless "it couldn't be any other way" which is on you to prove.rare bad opinion from a Serb flag
for me its Yahweh's rendition of "Siri, Create da 6,000 year old flat earf"jk jk im a platonist
>>542261212The Earth is flat and stationary.Creators exists.Aliens don't exist.Demons don't exist.Space isn't real.Gravity doesn't exist. Never went to the moon.Solar Flares are a meme.Asteroids don't exist. UFOs are a psyop. Nukes don't exist.Evolution is a lie.Germ Theory is a lie.The world is ruled by secret societies that worship the Demiurge. Jews/Jesuits/Freemasons/Illuminati are Gnostics and Kabbalists. Masters at deception. One satanic philosophy is inverting reality.They make you think you live on a spinning ball.They make you think you're just an animal.They make you think there's a deadly virus out there.They make you think there are gay space niggers from outer space out there. They make you think there are giant rocks hurtling through the vacuum heading towards our ball earth. They make you think the sun is about to fart and eject some fake corona.They make you think the poles are about to take a massive shit.
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>>542268627>Who says "everything" is designed.Everyone who believes in the Creator theory, basically. If you want to say the Creator didn't design everything, you can, but that's not what most people mean when they're refering to God.
>>542269213Ur gay, but I always appreciate you reminding me of archaix
>>542263162Your rite
>>542269213retard
