File: 1599881117489.jpg (163 KB, 811x1024)

163 KB JPG

>>542415492
oh look, another anti-christian thread

>>542415492
>Can god do X
Yes he can do anything
>Why doesn't he stop X
Because he doesn't want to
>Then he isnt good
He is, you are just retarded

>>542415650
>He is
How?

>>542415629
KYS

>bad thing happen mean god not real
What are you 12?

>>542415492
God is evil

>>542415787
>doesn’t answer the question

>>542415787
Look at the chart. It isn't saying god isn't real it's just proving that if there is a god it can't possibly be all-powerful, all-knowing, and all-good at the same time. In other words the Christian God isn't real.

>>542415650
/thread

>>542415629
The nature of evil debate has been long before Christianity. In the end the Greeks thought that their gods were just like us and no different only alot more powerful. Feared and respected yes but worshipped for their nature not really.

File: 1605689010250.jpg (93 KB, 1080x1357)

93 KB JPG

>>542415492
Some of you remember me constantly posting these posts.

https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/528529495/#q528534771

https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/528529495/#q528534871

Adam, Eve and Satan challenged God's sovereignty. Satan accused Jehovah of bribing Job in exchange for loyalty. Christianity is meant to answer those challenges. That's all.

>What is it meant to accomplish?

To prove three things:
>Satan is a liar
>Humanity cannot govern themselves
>Humans will be loyal to God in return for nothing.

>Was is the solution to all the world's problems?

After God is satisfied with those issues thoroughly being answered and accomplished he will bring Armageddon to earth. A one world government ruled by Jesus Christ as king. That regime is simply called God's Kingdom

>>542415650
>Good is what the powerful decide it is
hmmm yeah not sure on that one chief

>>542415492
>test us
>freewill
Aren't these christian arguments written 300 years after epicurus died, also why did this greek polytheist care so much about the hebrew god?

Free will has to have evil option otherwise humanity doesnt have the full range of possibilities to choose from, its more evil to be a dictator abd force people against their will to love you and making them robots with no agency, God chose the lesser of two evils. Pretty much like the god emperor of dune and the golden path.

>>542416483
It's not about free will. >>542416360

>>542416524
It's not about free will >>542416360

Suffering is unnecessary to have free will.

>>542415629
Kek

>>542415492
>does worshiping "this particular god" benefit me?
If yes, then worship.
If no, then don't.

>>542416601
But you need the full extent of suffering, since god is a god of knowledge he unsterstands what the full extent of suffering is as a concept, if he gives you very little suffering then its not its full capacity. Which means its not true suffering just an inconvenience at that point.

>>542415492
This image never define what is Evil.

die you fucking christkike jew worshippers

>Evil exists
it doesn't. Chart collapses on first step. For this chart to make sense you need Evil with a capital "E". There's no such thing

>>542416784
I worship the Almighty God. Also. I will never die. Cope and seethe.

>>542416360
Death cultist

>>542415650
>He is
Allegedly. But you can't explain how what He's doing is moral, you just have faith that it is, citing those ever-elusive 'mysterious ways.' It's all a bit convenient, isn't it?

File: god is not good.png (139 KB, 338x307)

139 KB PNG

>>542415492
Yes it has, and pic related is the answer.

File: 1775477141582731.jpg (81 KB, 1234x1234)

81 KB JPG

>>542415492

File: 1789147105892203q.jpg (143 KB, 1235x660)

143 KB JPG

>>542415492
I hate you so much OP

File: file.png (1.32 MB, 831x1218)

1.32 MB PNG

>>542417412
evil exists. You've seen it's face but are too stupid to realize

>>542417533
God respects free will so he allows the rapist to rape.
But he doesn't respects free will enough to stop the victim from being raped.

Why does God allow free will in some cases but doesn't in others?
Why does he respect the freewill the rapist more than the victim?

>>542418236
>Why does he respect the freewill the rapist more than the victim?

Because god needs more children.

>>542418236
No you fucking retard. Is your IQ two digit?

>>542417533
What makes free will good, then, if it causes so much evil? Wouldn't it be better if God controlled everything directly?

File: 1757253588516517.jpg (214 KB, 1024x1024)

214 KB JPG

>>542415629
>>542415492
>The afterlife not existing would make me feel sad
>Therefore God exists

There's literally nothing more to it.

File: god saw all that he had m(...).mp4 (2.84 MB, 1280x720)

2.84 MB MP4

>>542415492

>>542418412
You insult but fail to answer the question. The image you posted contradicts reality.

File: EPICUREAN PARADOX SOLVED.jpg (109 KB, 731x719)

109 KB JPG

>>542415492
it was solved a long time ago.
you've lost your edge.

>>542418929
I can explain it to you (already did with the image), but I can't understand it for you. Sucks to be dumb, anon, sorry.

>>542415492
Gnostics came to the conclusion that god is not all-powerful, not all-knowing, and definitely malevolent.

It's because he constantly has to explain that he's the greatest and glaze himself.

>>542415492
stating 'Evil Exists" is an inherent appeal to the divine, thus an acknowledgement of divine command.

>>542415629
holy shit the christcucks are so fucking retarded they created an entire elaborate infographic meme just to demonstrate that they still, in fact, have no answer and must resort to flailing, childish insults and tantrums to this basic question
lol
lmao

>>542419012
>idiotic word-salad blaming you for being evil in a universe where an all-powerful God created everything
still not an answer
why can christtards not even into the most basic logic?

>>542419057
Yet freewill is violated everyday.
Does not seem like god cares about freewill at all.
So op image still stands.

>>542415492
This entire flowchart can be invalidated by the fact that eternal heaven awaits the innocent.

So what does it matter what they spend several decades in misery (which most dont anyways)? I'm not even religious but it's clear that they believe we're all God's creation for him to admire and observe in all its facets, and there's eternal paradise afterwards.

>>542417412
this is also true

>>542419012
>you've been a very bad boy and you need to be punished
slave

>>542419333
you completely failed to understand it.
it's not "word salad", you're just still tryna be edgy even though you lost it.

>blame
this is where you misunderstood.
there is no blame, it's necessary aspect of Unity that it _must_ include Disunity, however Disunity cannot exist in a state of Unity.

Thus wholeness requires, in part, separation.

File: IMG_3079.jpg (150 KB, 1290x708)

150 KB JPG

Op only eats uncrustables confirmed

>>542415492
Free will. Simple as. If you dont get it then you dont get it do you?

>>542415492
An extreme bout of faggotry, but from the 3rd century. Some of the worst and biggest bouts of faggotry was Ancient Greek faggotry.

>>542419256
Hahaha. All cucks are retarded.

>>542419432
Wrong again, it does not say that. both of you: >>542419333
simply resorted to straw-men as you cling to your imaginary and unsupportable belief that our consciousness could occur without an underlying unifier.

>>542415492
Is it that much of a paradox, could easily be explained.
>its a test for humans to overcome
>the process of overcoming evil can only be done through lived experience, God removing evil by himself would defeat the purpose

or

>God is the natural state of the cosmos. He is beyond mortal comprehension of "good" or "evil" he is God. Good is just to live in his image as much as you can, evil is the opposite.

Or could just take Plato's arguments for why injustice is naturally less preferable than justice. If God made it so, he created a natural incentive system to prefer justice.

>>542415492
The entire framework collapses under one simple want:
love from those who have free will
It also assumes a god's timescale is the same as ours, bound by our rules.
>kek

>>542419384
What if I told you we have to get past Yhwh to get to that kingdom, and that he REALLY doesnt want us there - not because we are sinful, but because we are evidence of his own sins.
His most dedicated flock he is planning to keep in a new matrix, but the rest of us are a major liability for him.

>>542419724
>it's a test
no. it's not a test.
see: >>542419012
and >>542419472

>it's a necessary aspect of Unity that it must include Disunity, however Disunity cannot exist in a state of Unity.
>Thus wholeness requires, in part, separation.

>>542419333
for someone to love you, there needs to be the option for someone to not love you as a contrast
if everyone loved you by default, being loved wouldn't feel like anything because there is nothing to compare it to
God wanted to experience being loved so he had to create humans with the ability to chose him out of their free will and in order for them to use that free will to chose him, he had to create something that is not him, which is why evil exists

>inb4 what an evil God to create evil just so he can experience being loved out of free will
sure, maybe, but what you gon do bout it? seethe and throw a tantrum and chose eternal damnation because you don't like the reality of the setup you have been created for?
maybe you need to develop some compassion for God, imagine there being nothing that exists but yourself, the loneliness of that must be soul crushing, especially if suspended in spaceless eternity
we can keep him a little company and say a little prayer every now and then

>>542415629
>christtranny is butthurt
kek

>>542419838
>we are evidence of his own sins.
Also wrong. The Gnostics were wrong.
There is no blame in What Is.

>>542419882
speciation and integration drives are both necessary to prevent context corruption from stagnation, be it memetic or genetic

>>542415629
JAJAJAJAJAJA
>>542415650
SPBP

>>542420017
There is no evidence against What Is; only Of what it is.

>>542419510
See
>>542418236

>>542416749

please go to your nearest children's hospital and, in front of their parents, tell that to the kids born with cancer, or have developed cancer. you're a monster.

>>542419948
Of course there is. Law exists above.
"He" isnt the creator of the cosmos, that's preposterous for any entity to claim and requires extraordinary proof beyond simple terraforming/geo-engineering skill. That just places him (or more likely them) at a reasonably high level of power and knowledge we should respect and fear.
He isnt alone out there by any means though.
> there is no blame
but blame was placed, wasnt it? on Satan, on Earth, on Free Will, on "the humans that turned to evil"
Guess what? We were framed. And now the truth has been made known. War in heaven.

>>542420313
>but blame was placed, wasnt it?
by idiots that think it's a bad thing and they feel victimized by and this need someone to blame and direct their revenge fantasies on
just because someone can't keep their ego in check doesn't mean god made a mistake, it means that person needs to work on their pride

File: b0r1vt.jpg (85 KB, 577x433)

85 KB JPG

>>542420431
vengeance? No.
Justice? Yes.

>>542416117
Actually the issue is your epistemic scope and you’re projection of what God is capable of.

Epicurean assumes that everything temporally presented to an observer is known in absolute. If you read Job, someone who is being tortured by satan directly, God points out that your finite scope doesn’t dictate what God ultimate is, God does, and given the context, God didn’t need to do anything because God was already in control. Science requires faith to use, the entire point is that man is a derivative finite creature, epicurean assumes absolutes are compelled to behave a certain way relative to his finite understanding of the context, which is blatantly false. General relativity exposes the impossibility of knowing where you are in the universe rather than a distance between two objects, Godels theorem proves a formula cannot be limited and yet able to summarize the whole without unfinished principles from your perspective.


This is a well established cross-domain cross-study invariant that Decarte and Kant completely take as variant and optional. Kant literally tells you in his observation that there is something wrong with not being able to judge reality totally while being in it, yet you would need to be outside reality in order to judge God properly, because you don’t have the scope to make that assessment and your merely projecting your blatant hatred of him through a needlessly elaborate methodology.

>>542420616
same thing, both symptoms of pride
justice is God's, he will give everyone what they deserve, it's not on you to try and play God by carrying out judgement

File: Floating Monk.jpg (104 KB, 736x736)

104 KB JPG

>>542420313
you're attempting to argue a different mechanic than I am, by twisted assertion, and then demanding that I produce proof of /your/ doubly-inverted claim.

I have already provided proof of MY claim, through the Principle of Idempotence.

>"He" isn't the creator of
I didn't say he was. I said he Is.

again: you're talking about someone/something else than I am.
>blame was placed
You're weaseling in passive voice. "was placed" By whom?
>we were framed
By whom?

>war in heaven
You cannot kill God. It's a tautology.
Good luck, there is no place to die.

>>542420431
>that person needs to
That person needs nothing.

>>542419724
>>542419882
God is ALL.
God is the only thing capable of being ALL
If anything else exists other than God, they are less then ALL.
The difference between ALL and anything else gets assigned names based on perspective and consequences.

Evil seeks to maximize the difference between ALL and everything else.
Good seeks to minimize the difference between ALL and everything else.

God/ALL cannot be less than ALL and will therefore never exhibit the trait of being evil or good.
God/ALL is above that classification.
>cmon guys

In some versions of the Bible God says he creates evil:
https://biblehub.com/isaiah/45-7.htm
Maybe he's bored idk, maybe the way to see it is that we should forgive him so he can forgive us for the bullshit we do to Simcity NPCs or the microflora in our stomach.

>>542416117
your mistake is to assume that creating evil and being all good are mutually exclusive exclusive because your comfort and pleasure addicted self can't fathom the idea that creating evil is a good thing

>>542420733
they need to unless they want to go to hell, which is their free choice

>>542416117
On the contrary: in order FOR a god to be all powerful, all knowing, and all good, it MUST also include evil; it cannot omit it.
see: >>542419882

>>542415629
Based. This cute little chart messes up on the third block
>does God want to prevent evil
Thats unknown, we have a hard time defining evil, let alone trying to figure out what God wants to do with it. Imagine an ant trying to think about why OP fucks his hand, to the ant its totally unknown why OP does this. Could you imagine the ant trying to figure out something like that?

Your chart falls apart on the third one where you try to figure out God's 'wants'. Thus is totally impossible to understand fully and you'd only be able to take a guess at it. What is clear is that the author of this has a very juvenile understanding of 'evil' and assumes everything is either good or evil. Many things that are thought to be good are evil and many things thought to be evil are good. What you call good is evil to someone else. Do you really think youre capable of understanding something thats truly all powerful? No, you try and apply your own morality to something that it doesnt work with

>>542415492
>yet to be answered
rofl
That retarded meme has a circular loop so it's is not logically valid. It also relies on a premise God "needs" something which is false.
Debunked

>>542417245
>you can't explain how what He's doing is moral
Wrong. He allows free will. Just because you're too retarded to understand that does not mean its immoral

File: IMG_2993.jpg (144 KB, 1290x1131)

144 KB JPG

also, God did create a reality where no evil existed, there was only one rule, which was to use free will to chose him by staying faithful to his guidance and to not eat from the apple of the tree of knowledge but ofc prideful humans just HAD to know and chose the snake over God and then they have the audacity to be mad at God for being this weak, ungrateful and unloving
they had everything and no suffering but that still wasn't enough for their gluttonous asses
humans deserve all the suffering for their unlimited entitlement

File: jok.jpg (284 KB, 1080x1080)

284 KB JPG

>>542420847

>>542416601
Thats stupid, we would just invent a new metric to argue about.

>>542420689
> justice is God's and he will give everyone what they deserve
Hmm, that sure sounds like pride - a father's pride no less, for one being to think he alone not only knows, but can dictate what's ultimately best for his creations
absolute hubris. Yes, even gods are capable of that. And sin.
Did the Greeks teach you nothing? Do you have any idea how many creatures we've had gallavanting about the planet (not to mention men pretending to be said creatures) over the millennia claiming to have created us and therefore own us - only to burn all of what we are to the ground and reduce us to foodslaves?
Not this time. We're getting the fuck up off the ground.
There's pride and wrath, and then there's confidence and righteous indignation.
Good luck.

>>542415629
oh look it's the bulgarian tranny again

File: 1789128002751439.png (437 KB, 447x870)

437 KB PNG

>>542421219
>>542421038
>>542420804
>>542415650
>>542419012

Whi original sin could send a baby to hell if he didnt commit a sin?

>>542420733
> I win because I say so.
Believe what you wanna believe, jack
just dont be surprised - you've been warned
get on the ships if ya wanna

>>542418236
Yes. What dont you understand about free will? If God saved everyone from everytbing all the time, we would stagnat and rely on him for everything. How many parents want their children to be fully reliant on them at alltimes? The crazy ones. Normal mature people want to cultivate them to do things on their own and its how we are designed. Some people are going to chose rape, thats all their is to it and its very unfortunate to the victim.

Someone raping someone else isnt a lose of the same free will that you assign to human morality. You guys have the most kindergarten questions for this shit.

>>542421300
nobody knows their creation the way the creator does and as the creator, he does hold all authority
but go ahead, I'm sure he's smirking at your little prideful detour in arrogance and thinking you know better then he who knitted you in your mother's womb and knew you before he formed you
hopefully you find your way back home before he returns

>>542419341
How is free will violated everyday? I have never witnessed God intervening and telling me I can not do something. I do not know of a single recorded instance of this happening

>>542421447
he did commit a sin, the original sin
besides, God is merciful and just, he doesn't send anyone to hell without good reason, he loves all his children and doesn't want to be separated from any of them if they don't give him a reason for that by choosing the devil over him

>>542421447
you replied to me incorrectly; i said nothing about your question.

We say God is good because God has declared Himself to be good, which is right and proper. He is Mighty and we are weak. All things in this universe, including the concept of good, flow out from God. Murder and theft are not evil "just because". Kindness and honesty are not good "just because". Nothing in this universe is "just because". Everything is because of God. Things that God has declared to be right or wrong are right or wrong because God declared them to be so, and for no other reason.

>>542421447
No. Ask a real question and not brainlet tier elementary shit

>>542421448
Also not what I said. look up the Principle of Idempotence.
None of you is going to win this argument with straw men.

>>542420733
Also, the real "God" is a joke, and let me tell you why that's a good thing.
realize that the Everything, the grand entity that is this entire universe and everything in it, is NOT yhwh. Hell, it isnt even Barbello.
Thats supposed to be how belief in God works, is that ANY single entity telling you what to do or that they own you - no matter how big or how powerful, you can just tell them to fuck off.
Yhwh is NOT everything. He too, like us, is a fragment. There are several layers of governance above him, it turns out. Nobody can "talk" to the cosmos, but yet all of us can

>>542421548
anon thinks free will means you chose what happens to you, he doesn't understand that it means you chose how to think and act based on what's happening to you, so he thinks free will is violated when something happens to you that you don't want to happen to you

>>542421447
Also, your picture is right. Someone thats stupid gets it good. Someone who is smart gets it good. A dumbass midwit like you THINKS hes smart enough to understand these things, but he doesnt. You should follow the advice of your picture because youve demonstrated that you have no idea about any of this stuff

>>542415492
God isn't "testing" us, he does know us past and future. We are the ones limited in that regard, not him, and our lives ARE his knowing of us.
If he were to intetvene, we would not be that which chose the thing he intervened in which would be not known. He may know he intervenes because he intervenes, but when he does there is nothing else to know.
He knows who farted. He knows it was me.

>>542421836
stop eating slop then

File: god man.png (1.43 MB, 720x952)

1.43 MB PNG

>>542415492
yeah god is just an evil motherfucker and christianity is basically just the religious equivalent of the temporarily embarrassed millionaire syndrome but replace money with heaven

>>542421768
Exactly, thats why hes saying someone's freewill is violated when they get raped. He has no idea what the fuck any of this means. Midwits are dangerous and need to be culled. They are just smart enough to understand that they arent stupid, which is bad news for everyone

File: finger gun.gif (389 KB, 480x258)

389 KB GIF

>>542421764
Who do you think you're talking to?

>>542421836
Qingu thought he did too when he convinced Marduk to blow up Tiamat
now we have no Marduk
no Ishtar
no Luna
nothing but a greatly diminished "Earth" and forsaken dead spheres "Mars", "Venus", etc...

>>542421894
>by Ruben

File: RobotDevil-4218345276.jpg (28 KB, 480x384)

28 KB JPG

>>542421959
you know damn good and well who you're talking to
:)

>>542421461
Actually God prefers you be reliant on him and there’s literally nothing wrong with that. The assumption for epicurean is that limited information is reliable enough to judge absolutes. Faith is universally required of every single created sentience. Faith is literally all God is asking for.

If God exists, the issue is your orientation with him, which means 100% of the issues are on your side and are entirely projections. So for people in denial they’ll use themselves as the reference to judge God when it’s blatantly an incomplete assessment of the context. God would be the only one capable of knowing everything about you from the moment you are born to death. No one else has that vantage point.

Job tried to shittest God by implying if he didn’t stop satan from fucking his shit up God was fake n gay, God’s reply was basically “that retard is larping as if torturing you makes me anything less than I am, I made everything and are fully aware of what is happening to you, you do not understand why this is happening just trust me bro.”

It’s a practical question, why would God do through the trouble of creating shit to play out temporally when he can literally know what will happen before hand and decide simply not to do it? Epicurean assumes God has no free will and also must answer man on man’s terms, despite God being fully capable of existing outside of the apparent context, shattering egos and making satan seethe regardless.

>>542421674
>he did commit a sin, the original sin
Sure, so if a baby die without being baptized he will go to hell, but a serial killer will go to heaven if he accept christ as our kang.
>>542421799
>Dont ask questions, just believe that our God is a jew who died in middle east 2000 years ago. Trust me.
Total christcuck death

>>542415492
> evil exists
> yes

what is evil, exactly?
> eerrr, things that i don't like
what if... God likes things that (you) don't like?
> i-impossible
what if.. (you) are a retard
> i-impossible
even if compared to God?
> I'm totally smart!
uh-huh

So it's yet another version of "retard questions God and doesn't like the answer". There's no paradox. There's only stupidity.

>>542421900
it's all so tiresome but it helps to remember that God puts these people here to teach us patience and giving it in his hands
I'll pray for anon tonight

>>542422082
you want to destroy evil?
there's only one way to do that
thats to prove it doesnt exist.
to render the concept obsolete.

>>542415492
>waaaa I didn't have a dad
Single mother morality has yet to see its lack.

>>542422075
>if a baby die without being baptized he will go to hell
not necessarily and not likely but we can't fully rule that out because it's not clearly stated in scripture, so we have to accept that it's a possibility and that there's simply things we can't ever know and understand with our limited human capacity and have to give up to him to handle and know, yes
>but a serial killer will go to heaven if he accept christ as our kang.
no, accepting Christ as king is not enough, satan himself accepts Christ as king because he knows full well he stands no chance against him and he surely won't ever go to heaven
the defining factor isn't to acknowledge God is king, it's to genuinely repent for your sins and not because you're scared of the punishment you'll receive for it but because you realize how much grief you've caused God by disobeying him and because you finally come to the realization that all you ever wanted is to praise him, glorify him, surrender to his will and put a smile on his face when he looks down on you and what you've decided to make with your time on earth and with the free will he's given you

>>542415492
It was answered like a thousand years ago, it's well poisoning (a formal logical fallacy) that assumes a human perspective where everything you find undesirable to be bad, which is ridiculous because it's subjective. A child thinks their parent is evil when they have their toy taken away. It's essentially a malformed question that is circular because it just confims itself instead of staying logically consistent. You suffer when you exercise, does that make exercise evil? No.

The epicurean trilemma is question-begging which is a formal logical fallacy.

File: Eatshitop.jpg (89 KB, 640x951)

89 KB JPG

100 replies and this hasn't been posted yet. Shameful

>>542422033
>must answer man on man's terms
So, jewish?

>>542415492
testing You is for YOU, not for God.

>>542421038
>and assumes everything is either good or evil. Many things that are thought to be good are evil and many things thought to be evil are good. What you call good is evil to someone else.
There is no reason to hurt anyone. It's pretty simple:
If an action you are about to do will result in somebody, you or anyone else, in pain or suffering, then it is not the right action to do. Another, better action, such that it does not result in someone, you or anyone else, in pain or suffering, should be found and done. Only such actions should be done. No action that results in somebody in pain or suffering, can be called good. Only such actions that don't result in pain and suffering can be called good, and only beings that do such actions can be called good.

>>542422075
No, people who are capable of asking question should ask questions. People like you, ones who dont understand this, shouldn't because its dangerous for you. Your mind is to small to comprehend this stuff so its lead to doubt, then to rebeling. Now look where you are. See, for you specifically, it is better for you to not ask questions.

>>542422341
actually came here to post this but then got distracted

>>542415650
Please understand that the human mind is highly adaptable. It is difficult to untangle oneself from a carefully constructed web of lies preying upon every human bias.
>>542420668
Only one fact can be known for certain without any assumptions -- epistemological arguments suck ass and you should feel bad

>>542422075
No and no. Again, ask a good question or stfu. Im tired of these half ass midwit takes

>>542416524
>making them robots with no agency
So doing everything right makes you a robot? Why are we being punished for not being like robots (for not making the right choice every time) then?

>>542422462
>>542422537
>you can only ask questions I can answer
lol

>>542422453
There are tons of very good reasons to hurt someone. Why do you think otherwise? Hurting someone else can and often times is the right thing to do.
>walk in on wife
>shes drowned two kids in the bathroom tub
>shes working on the third one right now
The right thing to do here is to punch her in the face and save the kid

Another one
>sports fans break into your house
>they are armed
>clearly up to no good since they dont live here
>you shoot one
Again, thats the right thing to do

>>542415492
I had a conversation with priest friend about this but I feel like I couldn’t find a way to explain in the words he would understand, or maybe the opposite is true
It is such an easy thing to understand though. An educated christian would always explain it away with free will, but that still doesn’t make sense as an omnipotent deity could create a universe with free will where all humans decide to not sin, yet he didn’t. Really the crux is the original sin. Christianity has to carry the baggage of bronze age canaaneans who got assblasted by babylonians and wrote the fanfic about how their god is the bestest and everyone else is actually a sinner and will bow down to his chosen peoples, I mean to him, so it must always make a case for these retarded claims, even if it makes itself a bit retarded

>>542422647
How about you come up with a good question? Im telling that guy that he isnt as smart as he thinks he is, and I think thag applies to you too

>>542422075
jesus sold off some of us to yhwh to get him to fuck off
this isnt his planet, never was. he fixed it up for us when Qingu blew it to high hell and bought us time (he is Chronos after all) but his own complicity in all this is enough for us to have mediation involved.

File: 1782702441162295.jpg (128 KB, 611x1024)

128 KB JPG

>>542422462
Absolute state of christkek
>>542422338
>>542415629
>>542421725
You are wrong because you christkek consider God as you dad. So the concept of being pure love is what you expected from a loving father. Epicurian paradox destroys the concept of God as our father

>>542422749
those questions seem reasonable to me

>>542422749
complete retard jew worshipper

>>542422804
>>542422797
They've already been answered, and no, those questions get asked all the time as a "gotcha" type question. Both of which are stupid
>baby goes to hell
>youre a bad person
>baby goes to heaven instead with out being baptized
>uh oh loophole!
See how stupid that is? Now, why dont you come up with YOUR OWN question and not some Facebook tier amazing atheist shit. Im asking YOU to personally come up with your own unique moral question

>>542422708
it's not free will if you're created with only the option to chose the option he wants you to choose
it's the difference between a cat climbing on your lap voluntarily vs grabbing her and forcing her to stay on your lap vs keeping her on your lap since her first breath and never letting her experience anything else so she gets conditioned to live on your lap even though technically she could get up and jump off vs cutting off the cats legs so she has no choice but to sit on your lap

only one of those options is actually morally correct, which is why it's what God chose for us

>>542422834
Great, and now you guys are using other peoples garbage insults. Thanks anon, I see that about 49 times a day here

For everyone confused as fuck, YOU ARE NOT JUDGED ONCE.
Every time. Every day. Every self inflicted harm.
There is no punishment waiting for you, because you are already living it by your own action.

>>542422910
they keep getting asked because you don't answer them and sperg out

>>542422794
That has more sense than trinity.

Can anyone explain why did God create Adam and Eve in such a way that they failed to make the right choice, but not in such a way that they wouldn't have failed to make the right choice? Why is one ok but the other one not ok? Were they created worse than they could have been on purpose?

>>542415650
Not wanting to prevent bad things is good? Not stopping bad things when you are capable of doing so is good?

>>542422987
they get answered, you just don't understand or don't like the answer and in your infinite arrogance, not being told what you want to hear means it didn't get answered
this is what main character syndrome does to a mf

>>542422987
I already answered them
>>542422537
See? Now where is your question at? I also answered the midwit rape question

>>542422797
It literally does not for the reasons I stated. It's not logically consistent outside itself and fails when you point out the false premise. Learn basic philosophy and fallacies, you don't need to believe in God to educate yourself

>>542423053
they don't get answered, and you sperg out because you can't

>>542415629
Just want you to know that your posts the past couple of years on here have been the final straw to drive me away from Christianity.

>>542415492
> Can God Prevent Evil -> Does God know about all evil? -> Does God want to prevent evil? -> No? God is evil

Illogical conclusion.

>>542423015
that exact question has been answered multiple times itt alone, just scroll up a bit

File: 1788043607768103m.jpg (95 KB, 707x1024)

95 KB JPG

>>542422910
>Facebook tier amazing atheist shit.
If even the faceberg midwits are capable of debunking christcuckery...

>>542423015
he's just an asshole

don't say or even think that though, you have to lick his ass or you'll burn in hell forever

>>542422912
You are not listening. An omnipotent all knowing deity could have created a world where there is free will and yet nobody sins of their own free will.
He could have created such a world, without hard determinism and restrictions, as he is omnipotent, yet he didn’t

>>542421964
One either respects that which created it as superior or not. It is that simple. What you see of creation ought not to be presumed to be created FOR you to any degree. If a degree of that is had, it is a gift. To judge the whole of creation as if it is meant for you and your lens is a folly, for that but for more reasons than that alone.
If the question being asked is whether or not God is Good or Evil, where typically the Christian argues good and the non-believer or the satanist argues evil, my answer is that is that there simply is no such thing in the whole case. There is only power. That is the forbidden knoweledge that lost man its place in the garden. God desires us to see him as good, there is then synergy for our purpose abd we may be satiafied with our place beneath him permanently. If we see him as evil, we cannot be those things. We will not be content beneath him, nor serve our purpose. It is utself the gate to hell abd eterbal torment.
Salvation is to be convinced again that God is good, as that is what he desires to see in us, that we see him as truly good in our standards. That is what in our lens he is concerned with. To see him as evil is the path of the opposer. Even to question abd doubt. By one's own hand one could not find peace in that state.
To see beyond the problem like this, I have no idea what that means for a person's soul, to tell you the truth.

>>542422797
Wanna piss off some masons?
Say this phrase
> Jesus Is Lucifer
See, some of us got together and did Yhwh a solid. There was a nasty plan put together to render him mortal and kill him. Yes, I (channeling the red guy rn) was involved in making that plan with him. It was... misguided. Having been through this loop however many times we have has taught me that. I see now the correct course of action wasnt to take matters into my own hands, but to cry out. And that's what I've done. So now we have to stop
> the ones who are still going by the original plan
> the mouths coming at us
> the ones who have no fucking idea whats happening
fun times, but
we
got
this

>>542423087
they do get answered, you simply don't like being told that you having to endure unpleasant things is a good thing and not a design flaw because you can't fathom that not getting your way could ever be a good thing
this is part of why it exists, to give you an opportunity to learn to humble yourself eventually

>>542422912
>it's not free will if you're created with only the option to chose the option he wants you to choose

evil isn't a choice God provides. You have a choice to believe, which reorients you with God. The problem is your frame of reference, you sin because you idolize yourself and you have a limited derivative ontology. You're basically out of sync with the truth, and this is why morality is often viewed in a dialectic. It isn't multi-polar, God is supposed to be the frame of reference, otherwise conflict occurs. You can find out alot of what people specifically believe about themselves, but listening to what people say they would do if they were God, because their teleology tells you straight up what they are using for a reference, and how that directly effects their actions as a result.
There are several anons in this thread that have confused expression with moral ontology, just because you can do things, doesn't mean its inherently with in your capacity to make things morally absolute, you can only emote, you do not have reality authoring tools.

>>542422997
and they said newfags cant triforce

>>542423119
I answered your questions already now give me a real question. Because I dont think youre capable

>>542415629
fuck off

File: 1788720900664414m.jpg (87 KB, 708x1024)

87 KB JPG

>>542423085
You said>>542422338
>that assumes a human perspective where everything you find undesirable to be bad
>Human perspective
>Thinking God is your father.
You are the ones who make a human perspective by comparing yourself with God. If you are His son, then you are similar to God.
And remember, YOU WORKSHIP A JEW

>>542423168

Free will precipitates the possibility of a creature using themselves as a moral absolute reference anon. Thats precisely why satan mistakes his created attributes and actions as his definition and purpose rather than looking to God. He's worshipping himself, which is why he expresses evil. God created everything Good. Nothing is ontologically evil. Morality is an orientation issue.

>>542422912
>it's not free will if you're created with only the option to chose the option he wants you to choose
This shit again
If you go into an ice cream shop and they don't have shit flavored ice cream do you complain there are no choices?
And why don't you have a Shift key you nigger? Fuck off

>>542423204
they don't get answered and never will

because there's really only one answer and it goes against your programming

>>542422797
Nothing I said was "christkekish" in any way whatsoever.

>>542422024
You misunderstood too.

>>542423381
Well, first of all “evil” is simply an absence of God/his presence/Holy Spirit. Second of all that doesn’t really rebuke what I said

>>542422705
Holy shit, youre stupid

>>542423168
it's not free will if you create someone with only the desire to chose the option you want them to chose
did you know that little kids' attention span is so short that you can greatly influence what they chose out of different options by stating what you want them to chose last? so instead of saying, "do you want potatoes, pasta or bread", you can say "do you want pasta, bread or potatoes" if you still have left over potatoes in the fridge that need to be used up
that's called manipulation and not respecting the person's free will because you're using tricks to influence their choices and God doesn't want to trick us into loving him, he wants us to love him because it's truly deeply what we consciously chose every day with our free will and full knowledge of all the choices we have
not creating us as mindless minions that adore him by default is an act of love from him to us because he doesn't want us on a leash, he wants us to come to him out of love
that IS the good option, creating us in a way where we'd always chose our free will to chose him by default would have been the evil option because it's disrespectful because it would turn us into nothing but objects, toys for his entertainment
so out of all the options, he did chose the most respectful, loving and kind one because he loves us that much that he didn't want to abuse his power to turn us into mindless creatures that worship him by default
he could have, but he chose not to because that's how good he is to us

>>542422082
Avoiding the facts and pretending you won an argument with a total moron is typical of a religious person.
>>542422033
"With enough baseless assumptions, you too can have an entirely nonsensical reality!"
>>542422910
None have been answered. The "gotchas" are contradictions which undermine the nonsensical belief system.

Here is a contradiction I came up with: if God judges people based on their morality, then isn't it in the believer's best interest to limit their power as that measurably impacts one's capacity to empathize with others? Doesn't this provable fact contradict the Calvinist interpretation of scripture purporting that prosperity brings one closer to God?

>>542415492
>This image has yet to be answered
The jews. It's all jewish nonsense. But let's start at the beginning. In human prehistory, there was a point in time where there were no gods at all, just spirits. Spirits are sort of like gods, but without the status. They're incorporeal (but localized), invisible when they want to be, but intelligent. Sometimes they know things humans don't know. So how did they become gods? When people started to worship them. The process itself is called apotheosis.

But even after apotheosis occurred, they weren't gods in the way the jews pretend their jew god is. Unique among all religions and pantheons, the jews decided that their god created the entire universe. Sure, this god or that goddesses created people, or it created the world... but theirs created everything.

Was that enough? Turns out it wasn't, because just a few centuries later they jews are slithering around Greece and start talking with the neoplatonist philosophers. Those are the guys who thought that because squares exist, there was this ultimate, spiritual square out floating around in the heaves, the other squares just being its "shadow". Platonic ideals, you see? But they were positing that there must be such a god. Omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, omnibenevolent. The jews heard this and immediately decided to upgrade their god. Of course he was, because being the jew god that meant he was more than any other so-called god.

Well, even that's not enough. Almost as soon as they decide he's omnipotent, he must be the only god ever.

If there are gods and spirits (probably not, but I'll reserve judgement), even then none of this horseshit is true. It's gibberish. I don't give a shit about omnipotent gods. Show me the god that's one of the good guys. Heroic. That's the side I want to be on. Even if he can't vanquish evil utterly. Your picrel is stupid and you're a retarded faggot OP. Plus, any "why" question can always be answered "the jews".

>>542423557
Prove me wrong

>>542416117
It doesn't prove shit and is obviously retarded, you just think it makes sense because you are also retarded.
You just hate a strawman of the Christian God as a proxy for your unresolved childhood anger at your parents for making you follow rules.

>>542423649
You aren't judged on morality alone.

File: 1785235179728926.png (1.99 MB, 1197x2000)

1.99 MB PNG

>>542415629
>>542415787
brown

>>542416601
>Suffering is unnecessary to have free will.
God tried that. Humans fucked it all up by using their free will to immediately break the only rule and doing the one thing they weren't supposed to do. It's literally the first story in the Bible.

>>542423597
You do know that to any argument you come up with I can just reply “can he create the world that’s also (your argument) but humans never chose evil?” right?

>>542415492
This all assumes God is good when he made us in his image. How many 100% good people do you know

File: 1775830287898603.jpg (146 KB, 844x748)

146 KB JPG

>>542423904
Rope?

>>542420199
No one would have bothered to build a Children's Hospital if cancer didn't exist.
The whole point and purpose of everything is for us to strive to overcome these things and become more like God, not for humans to lounge around fucking off in some hedonistic pleasuredome where nothing bad ever happens.

>>542415492
yes it has.
you're just a faggot.
don't cast pearls before swine, anons.
let this one burn.
save your energy for the humble.

>>542415492
>My action should have zero consequences else God is evil
Lol, LMAO even

>>542423597
God does not need to test us, or God is not omnipotent.
If failing the test is bad, then God created evil by making the test and that undermines his goodness.
>>542423658
You have the important parts of the historical record down, but you resist the argument for no reason. Stand down, soldier.
>>542423121
If Mummy's existence is contingent on having power, knowledge, and being good -- and you end the circular part on Mummy's lack of power, then you have a pretty good analogy for the Epicurean Paradox. An all-powerful God cannot be good because suffering exists.

>>542424105
sure, you can
I just explained that he could have done that but he chose not to because it would have been evil to do that
but you're clearly not going to accept that and insist that the way God did create us is the evil option
we could go round and round ad infinitum
in the end, it's my believe that God did everything he did out of love vs your belief that he created evil just to hurt us
neither will be convinced by the other because we're both just humans trying to understand something we'll never know for sure with our little minds
is there anything I even could say that would make you change your mind?maybe you need to first experience God's infinite love for yourself before you can consider that he has no malice in him and thus you can just fully trust that whatever he chose to do or not do was from a place of deep love, even if I don't fully grasp it

>>542424500
it's not a test, it's an option
it's the difference between sitting next to a wild animal and let it come to you when it's ready and trusts you enough vs setting a trap to capture it
he's not mad if you don't come to him, but he's sad if you run away because he knows what the alternative is and he wants you to spend eternity where there's no tears anymore - which is by his side

>>542424673
>God's infinite love for yourself before you can consider that he has no malice in him
Doesn't Jesus brag that most humans will burn in Hell for an infinite amount of time?
Torture by fire for trillions and trillions of years is just sadism and malice.

>>542424797
No he doesnt

>>542415492
because its silly, the assumptions and axioms are incorrect

>>542424797
no?

>>542424105
You have confused ‘can’ with ‘must.’

I'm sure a brain as capable as yours sees the issue.

>>542423119
>salvation is from the jews

God save us from the Jews, Amen

>>542415492
God can prevent evil through good people you inbred kike.

>>542424796
>It's not a test, it's an option
That is a distinction without a difference, and making up cute metaphors doesn't change that fact. If it is bad to "choose" otherwise, then its possibility undermines God's goodness. If it must be so, then God is not omnipotent.

No part of this argument proves that God doesn't exist, mind you -- it just proves that God is not good.

>>542425050
>>542425082
You should read the Bible sometime.
Matthew 7:13-14 Statistically most humans will be tortured by fire for an infinite amount of time. Trillions and trillions of years of torture mostly because they were raised in the wrong religion.

>>542415492
If you had a kid, would you want him to choose good above evil, or would you want him to be able to choose only good which robs him of his free will?

>>542416117
> In other words the Christian God isn't real.
Um… anon… the god in the Bible is explicitly not omnipotent, omniscient, nor omnibenevolent

This is why I always say atheists are just mad at their imaginary friend.

>>542415629
wew lad

>>542415492
Everything has duality, good cannot exist without evil, love cannot exist without hate.
When you finally understand that all things hs e an opposite and we cannot escape it, you can stop asking childishly why God does not eliminate evil.
We’re not in Heaven, thus perfection and bending of the laws of duality cannot exist.

>>542425280
What are the wages of sin?

File: IMG_3534.jpg (25 KB, 600x679)

25 KB JPG

>>542415629

>>542415492
God loves us so much that he would allow evil to exist so that we can overcome it. Without it we wouldn't be able to derive meaning from our existence. He loves us enough to let us suffer rather than be destroyed. That and we chose to have free will and in respecting that decision he keeps direct involvement to a minimum.

>>542415492
## I. The Resolution of the Paradox: Original Perfection and the Nature of Evil
The skeptical argument suggests that an all-powerful God could have created a universe with free will but without the capacity for evil. This paradox is built on a misunderstanding of both Christian history and the definition of goodness.
## 1. Historical Fact: A Sinless, Free Universe Existed
Traditional Christian theology (the Augustinian tradition) establishes that God did create a perfect universe with genuine free will and zero evil.

* The Cosmic Fall: Satan was created with absolute free will and chose to turn away from God, introducing evil into the cosmos.
* The Earthly Fall: Adam and Eve, operating with free will in a perfect Garden, followed Satan’s example, introducing sin and physical brokenness to Earth.
* Therefore, the coexistence of free will and a sinless reality is not a logical impossibility—it is the historical starting point of creation.

## 2. The Definition of Goodness and the Absurdity of Alternative Goods
Skeptics ask why God did not simply provide alternative "good" options to choose from, rather than allowing a choice for evil. This request is a logical absurdity.

* God as the Ultimate Standard: God is the sole author of creation and the absolute definition of goodness. Goodness is not an independent concept; it is alignment with God’s character.
* Evil as Privation: Evil is not a physical substance created by God. It is a "privation"—a lack, shadow, or corruption of good.
* The Inevitable Binary: Because God is the only source of ultimate good, any choice to turn away from God is, by definition, a turn toward a lack of good (evil). To demand a choice away from God that is still "good" is like demanding a four-sided triangle. It is a meaningless combination of words.

>>542425241
and even if so, God doesn't owe you being good
you'd have to play by his rules even if he wasn't good because there's no other option than to operate within the options he has created
you'd have to come to terms with the terms and conditions even if he wasn't good, so wether or not he is is actually a futile thing to think about

>>542425280
stating facts isn't bragging about something and taking sadistic pleasure in the suffering of others

>>542415629
OP BTFO'd into oblivion

File: 1273891273912837.png (106 KB, 302x277)

106 KB PNG

>>542415492
This doesn't follow. Where does it say that god can see the future and predict every possible action? Also, that's not the only possible reason to create evil. It could be in order to assist humans with their spiritual development.

>>542425694
>taking sadistic pleasure in the suffering of others
Torture by fire is pure sadism.

>>542419432
>>>you've been a very bad boy and you need to be punished
>>slave
fancy yourself perfect, huh?

>>542415775
lmao... OP got btfo and seethed impotently before running away to seethe some more.

>>542425568
This would mean that God is evil for creating suffering. That's a fine resolution if you plan to justify it, but you have conceded the argument.

>>542425624
>Traditional Christian theology (the Augustinian tradition) establishes that God did create a perfect universe with genuine free will and zero evil.
Stating it does not make it true.
>Satan was created... introducing evil into the cosmos
God created evil, so God is evil. This concedes the argument. Congratulations, ChatGPT

>>542425770
Also basically every single religion I know of involves god or the gods testing humans.

It’s just brainlet stuff.

>>542415492
Human development is recursive, following the logic of this flow only gets to a point before it crumbles logically. Testing in this framework is constant, what the logic fails to acknowledge is development. If God wanted to create something independent from himself, how would he do it? What would that process truly be like? If he just creates the end result then it is dependant on him but if he creates the beginning of something with freewill, it will eventually deviate from his will. It makes sense to me.

File: IMG_3467.jpg (14 KB, 250x202)

14 KB JPG

>>542426017
You are arguing with someone who just copy-pasted chatbot without reading it, anon…

You don’t need to post it here, you can just go use chatbot as well.

>>542416117
God not being able to lie nor deny Himself seems to undercut his crude child-like definition.

>>542419012
If evil is mandatory for humankind to exist then that is all mankind actually is

>>542426017
>with absolute free will and chose to turn away from God
>intentionally cut out half of sentence because logic is irrefutable
>blatant and ridiculous idiotic strawman
>"muh chatgpt' (genetically fallacy)
Try responding again without any logical fallacies. Until then I accept your concession.

>>542415492
Aquinas said something like evil doesn't exist, just a lack of good. We're operating on a lower degraded plane that is lacking goodness

>>542426118
>low iq baboons mad someone can disprove them in seconds with efficient use of a useful tool
>thinks using voice to text to structure/format argument means you "copy pasted without reading"
If you can't address the substance of an argument you concede defeat. Genetic fallacies aren't an argument. You aren't intelligent for living in the past and remaining slow/inefficient. Quite the opposite.

does god ban circumcision?
no? then he is not good

>>542415629
false religion, jesus isn't god
mary lied

>>542425917
yes, being apart from God is painful
but you don't have to ever be apart from him, all you have to do is use your free will to chose him every day
if you can't even do this one simple thing, you've asked for it
still doesn't make it sadistic, sadism implies taking pleasure in the suffering of others and God takes no pleasure in you choosing hell over him just because of your endless need for defiance
just how a father can take no pleasure in punishing his son but if the son uses his free will to bully someone, it's the fathers responsibility to bring him back to the right path by making it unpleasant enough to walk the path of destruction for the son to not get too comfortable there and start making it a habit, or worse an identity, to be cruel to others
doesn't mean the dad enjoys having to carry out the consequences but it's necessary if he loves his son and loves him enough to not just watch him give his soul over to evil just to feel powerful by being defiant to what would be good out of sheer pride