IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO COMPETE WITH THE CHINESE SUPERMAN
>>542442826Explain this to me like I'm 5
>>542442826Am I a boomer for no understanding any of this? Do zoomers know what the fuck is going on?
>>542442907you are going back into the oven
>>542442907>meanwhile, 5 year old Palestinians be like:
>>542442907>>542442930According to the sourceless image OP posted, mainland China can now make really small cuts without the dutch machines that the taiwanese use. The taiwanese were/are the only ones able to make those tiny cuts, meaning they control the supply of all fast computer chips.
>>542442826>IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO COMPETE WITH THE CHINESE SUPERMANAs if Taiwanese people aren't Han Chinese themselves, just liberally democratic and not totalitarian.
OP can already make 2nm chips with his dick because it's that small
>>542442907assuming 5 in china:it relies on ArFi (193nm DUV) self-aligned quadruple patterning (SAQP) to artificially cheat the rayleigh resolution limit. by using repetitive spacer depositions and anisotropic etching, it sub-divides lithographic features to reach a sub-21nm metal pitch, which is the spatial equivalent of a 2nm node.
>>542443209>anistropic etchingsounds like a lot of cleanup and other intermediary steps
those whole "x nm" thing is just marketing. if i remember correctly they stopped using a universal standard for measuring microarchitectures in the 90's. so 5nm from one company is not the same as 5nm from another. each company measures different parts of the transistor or w/e.
>>542442907And more than likely shit yields. If they get 20% I'd be really impressed. But I'd bet they have like 2-3 defects per cm^2.on 7nm, using a similar approach, the Huawei GPU had like a 50% yield rate. On 2nm density I doubt it is anything other than a desperate move.But they've copied EUV, they'll surely mass produce it in 2-3 years. The prototypes are functional.
Ching chong breathes, ching chong lies. This is the result of 2010s China's "Muh super chip". lol>China woes. A big chunk of the domestic China market has now gone away. Once gone, it will ‘never’ come back.>Jiangsu Advanced Memory Semiconductor (AMS) turned bankrupt. Wuhan HSMC saw no chips produced. QXIC's 14nm-class plans never realized. GlobalFoundries Chengdu was halted In 2020. And, Woodson Shanghai went bankrupt.>$50-100 billion was lost even before a single wafer was made.
>>542442907Just kys Shlomo
>>542442907chinks lie about everythingtheyre worse than jewsthey have no soultheir a nation of cheating, stealing, corrupt crooks
>>542443194op btfo
>>542442826Is this why my Chinese photonic stocks pumped today?
>>542442826Tower of babel moment
>>542442826So far ALL Chinese GPUs had horrible tests with total failures and they can't even build quality one the west did 20 years ago.So far the market sees nothing or else the market would be flooded already. It seems even simple RAM is too high tech for them.
>>542443065Why is Taiwan the market maker when the dutch make the machines?
>>542443209>>542442907chinks circumzed chips
Chinks eat dogs
>>542442826非常赞 - 1nm soon.
>>542444602There were 3 companies in the US, Netherlands, and Japan who developed the extreme ultraviolet technology, TSMC merged and bought out one company and the other two companies just rolled over and let them take the full IP for themselves without any fuss.And so TSMC and taiwan got a monopoly for no reason on the most advanced semiconductor technology fabs that weren't even developed by them and nobody in any of the associated countries cared
>>542444602White people are lazy and dont want to work anymore.
>>542442826remember when china claimed they had an ultra ai that was .01% the cost of nvidia and nvidia tanked then it was revealed to be bullshitthis is that again
>>542444767always think this clip is fascinating, but is it real?
>>542444602That's because EUV is just a big flashy camera. Photoresists and photomasks are the real part of lithography, and we allow them to use our materials.
>>542444888Yes and you will get your 5000$ Trump check soon too.
>According to actual chip results and plans, using 2025 transistor density as a baseline, our products achieved approximately 60% transistor density benefit from logic folding in 2026. By 2027, benefits increase to about 70%. By 2029, they will further improve to 80%.>As just discussed, this is the CHERLOVER benefit, not just pure logic benefit. Compared to Moore’s Law, from 5 nm in 2020 to 1.4 nm in 2029, SOC-level transistor density improvement is also about 80%. This means logic folding has the opportunity to achieve, in a shorter cycle, nearly 10 years of density gains from advanced process evolution, significantly alleviating pressure from Moore’s Law slowdown.https://chinaresearchcollective.substack.com/p/huawei-kirin-processor-chief-architect
>>542442907Chinks lied and pretended they 16x their chip density with completely new construction method when we all know they'd have had to buy the tooling from the Dutch and can only get the crucible silicon from South Carolina.
>>542443065>Overall, the chip improves performance by 42% over the Kirin 9030 Pro chip, which suggests that it could be equivalent to TSMC’s 3nmhttps://www.huaweicentral.com/kirin-9050-pro/
>>542442826>believing anything out of chinkland>retard confirmed
>>542445045This. China likes to announce "groundbreaking" new tech every few weeks, but then you never hear about it again after that. Still waiting to see all those fusion reactors they supposedly developed.
>>542444596Get with the times grandpa, CXMT now has production capacity rivaling that of Micron. That's in mere months.>You want chink RAM? Ching bong weilo chi GWEILO!https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/ddr5/china-made-cxmt-memory-now-supports-faster-speeds-on-msis-amd-motherboards-new-bios-adds-ddr5-8200-validation-on-dual-dimm-ddr5-7200-on-quad-dimm-models
>>542442907Hi-tech is easier and cheaper to achieve than the techbros have told you.
>>542445122>Still waiting to see all those fusion reactors they supposedly developed.they don't need fusionhttps://www.neimagazine.com/news/china-refuels-thorium-reactor-without-shutdown/
>>542442907You're a Jew and need to die.
>>542442907It's TSMC N3 equivalent. Instead of smaller transistor, they went 3D, by adding a second layer. Think AMD X3D but not limited to cache, but also logic, cores. You can effectively double the transistor density by doing that. Huawei call it logic folding. It also has the added benefit of reducing wire length connecting each transistor, by going 3d, reducing the resistance of the wire, therefore the power usage. Which is how the chip stays cool despite adding another layer.Why can Huawei do this? Because they're theyre using Chinese EDA, and worked with them for years to develop EDA software that optimizes for 3D logic circuit. It require very advanced hybrid bonding technology, and given that it is only done for small phone chips and only the flagship model until 2030, you can assume it is actually pretty difficult and yield is a problem until they improve the process. When they release big AI chips with logic folding, that when you can tell they got yield under control.It's a very novel approach to scale transistor performance without access to EUV.
>>542444602Because Asians will accept getting get riceslop from the company cafeteria and working 24/7 to troubleshoot shit for their honor.
>>542442930>Am I a boomer for no understanding any of this? It's because you're white. Low IQ subhumans won't understand this.
>>542444813Not really. White people long ago figured out that fuel is the constraint. So much so that we actually calculated how much coal China had. Then we convinced them to do all the work, and burn up all their fuel. They peaked coal EROEI in 2023. Not only did we win, but we made them make all our shit while we did it.
>>542444811It’s a truly global supply chain, they just do the work in Taiwan because it’s cheap and dirty. Silicon Valley version 2 is built on superfund sites from when they actually did fab. Look at TSMC’s profit vs everyone they fab chips for. Only reason we’re doing in here is from massive government subsidies. Hardly a monopoly, Taiwan just has better quality control than mainland China.
>>542442826Chink means victory
>>542442826>solid state batteries>fusion reactor>china ddr5>china flash>china gpuhow about they deliver 1 (one) product instead of being permanently 6 months away from production.
>>542445188Based and checked
>>542444888its an electron microscope m8 clearly its fake news
>>542442907Chinks are lying, water is wet.
>>542442826ok how did they do it without EUV. what are they using instead?
>>542442907>like I'm 5So like a Palestinian?
>>542446235Very complex hybrid bonding. Instead of building smaller, they're going vertical, which was limited to memory or cache until now.
>>542442826A reminder that sub-20nm technology is a marketing buzzword and completely fake.Current (western too) 4nm technology is actually more like 20nm+ technology, they just use 3d transistors (multiple layers) and basically say that if this was a single layer transistor it would have to be made by 4nm technology to get it down to this size.
>>542446318but how are they creating the bonding channels without EUV or photoresist?
>>542446318The west has been using 3d transistors in microprocessors for decades.
>>542443316Anisotropic etching is a well-matured process, but your intuition is correct about the total number of process steps ballooning with pitch splitting.
Proof of concept of a so called 2nm process, I sleep. Wake me up when CXMT can reliably duplicate Samsung's 9nm process and deploy at cartel busting scale
>>542445313coal means victory in america coal burners win wars
>>542443083That just improves the case for the "Chinese Superman" theory.It doesn't escape me that you're likely Han yourself, lah.
>>542442907>like I'm 5>5*Pulls the trigger on x95*
>>542446463Not just 3d transistor. Two layers of transistor, bonded together with tiny little wires. >>542446448Hybrid bonding require a separate tool in itself. China have their own tool supplier for hybrid bonding tech.
>>542447009bro you're describing any solid state memory. my SD card in my phone has chips with 8 layers of printed chips that are 40 layers thick. you're describing stacking chiplets but you're talking about nanometers. shit's two different things, retard.
>>542443021Kek
>>542447277Hybrid bonding is used in NAND and memory already, but the breakthrough here is that Huawei is the first to apply hybrid bonding to LOGIC transistors. YMTC was the first to commercialize wafer to wafer hybrid bonding for NAND.There was no EDA software that can optimize silicons for 3d stacking for logic transistors, which is why Huawei created it from scratch, with Chinese EDA company looking to break into the market. And Huawei's bond pitch is currently the smallest known, at 1.5 µm. TSMC uses 6µm bond pitch.
>>542444602Because people in Europe and the USA ask for things like "proper wages" and the money for that should be going to the shareholders. >"You mean all of this could have been easily and completely avoided?"Yes.
>>542442930>>542442907no. 99.99999999% of humans do not know how GPUs really work. They all pretend to, but none of you in this thread has ever coded for one.
>>542444888checked and no, absolutely not. etching at those scales is nowhere near even remotely this crisp, and how many human hairs have you seen with a perfectly antialiased white line labeled 0.06mm across them?
>>542447612Like a quarter of all engineers are EEs. Even if they're not big in digital systems, a good chunk of them took HDL classes, they all can get it.
>>542447009>vely comprex hyblid brondingshut up chink.
China already has quantum level logic gates
>>542442907It means the west is going to fuck itself in the chip set market the same way it did in the EV market
>>542444253>Nation of cheating, stealing, corrupt crooksImagine being European and thinking this isn't a mirror image of your history. Absolutely delusional and zero self-awareness.>When we do it we're cunning conquerors, when they do it to us it's sleazy
>still using siliconWhy the fuck are we not transitioning to wetware yet? Are we going to wait till every cubic meter of water is used for cooling? Is everybody just agreeing to use silicon and shit on wetware?
>>542442930No. This is tech enthusiast/professional knowledge. The number is the size of the smallest feature a semiconductor fab can etch onto the chip. Smaller features, means more shit on one chip. 2 nm means 2 nanometers. Basically, the Chinese reached a the level of precision that was only possible with the machines the rest of the world was keeping them from importing. They can compete with Taiwan without relying on a European company now.
>>542444602The Dutch didn't always. Taiwan got big because TSMC was one of the first to offer the "fabless" model. Before that only huge companies that could afford their own production lines could design chips (Intel, TI, etc.). TSMC basically flipped the industry to "anyone can design a chip and we'll build it for you." Like a print shop for silicon. As for how the Dutch got involved, I don't remember the details, but Europe's always had the best players for optics and as lithography got more precise the semi industry needed exquisite lenses.
>>542442826I will now buy your backdoor hardware
>>542444253C. Chinks aren't even subhuman. They're something other than human altogether.
>>542448271>b-b-but! But hundreds of years ago white people were as bad as we still are today! Why do you brown third-world retards keep clinging to 'muh history' even though it's been proven retarded & invalid a million times?
>>542442826>pls you give money 10 billion we make EUV better than American dogs>it super EUV like SEUV look here's slide it say 2 anonmeter we are now the CPU>haha West finishedOP please remind me where we are on those magical Huawei Ascend AI chips that were set to be "mass produced" by "late 2025"?
>>542442907OP is a goyim slave getting paid to shill some chinese AI shit and you're a retarded jew.As for the 5 part imagine I am jeffery epstein (your jewish messiah)
>>542444888Hmmm I wonder if the china-india flag leaf posting some AI shit is true or not...No wonder jews conquered us. We're actually a retarded race.
>>542448271cool story, ching chang chongeuropeans created mostly everything themselves, chinks steal everything>>542449246thats a fucking chinkthe entire internet is full of thmetheyre like subhuman borg
>>542442907>Explain this to me like I'm 5It just is. Don't worry your goyisha punim with things like that. That's not for you.
>>542445190It’s basically board stacking but for chips, interconnect with vias, but there is also the added trick of using back-side breakout connectors rather than just front, which has been the standard way of mounting dies to PCBs/substrates. Intel’s version is called Forveros 3D. IIRC TSMC’s 3 or 4nm is closer to Intel’s 7-10nm process, as stated though they’re skewing the numbers a bit as to attempt to make up for other improvements(“equivalencies”). Oh, and I believe it is ASML that is leading the EUV development. TSMC, SMIC(formerly), KLA, Applied Materials(AMAT), Onto/Innovent, Intel, AMD, Wolfspeed(cree), NXQ, Corning, Analog, and TI are among the many customers my company serves, the world of semiconductor fab automation and wafer handling processes is a fairly tight knit one.
>>542447612>coding software = hardware knowledge don't be a jew
>>542449776
>>542442826>No mention of yield or production Times.So did they use electron beams again? Great for single prototypes
>>542449776The company I work for also serves Samsung in Busan, ROK.
China's been very quiet for the past few years
>>542442826Which means they were allowed to steal it from the folks that achieved 0.5Wild shit.
>>542444602just cleverer, smarter, wiser, more intelligent
