Why did most of Russia’s allies join NATO after USSR’s collapse?
Because they know that Russia exists in an eternal cycle of expansion and collapse and didn't want to end up like Ukraine.
there are two sides retardholy shit
>>543221590As if globohomo gave em any choice
>>543221590because jewish tricks
>>543221590>alliesthey were their vassal states living under the soviet iron boot, not allies
>>543221590Russia is the only imperial power where the quality of life was worse in the imperial core than in the satellite provinces. Doesn't inspire confidence
>>543221590Because their elite was replaced by capitalist goons
>>543221590russia wanted to join nato too but was denied. why werent russias previous allies denied?
>>543221590Because we got more money and less AIDS.
>>543221811I agree completely.
>>543221735>>543221739>>543221846So you’re saying jews control all these countries because they don’t like Russia, who occupied them?
>>543221982no im saying in capitalism, capitalists ruleand capitalists dont like socialism because it weakens them in favor of an elected political class
Just look at Moldova and then look at Romania to see why nobody in Europe wanted to be stuck in Russia's poverty sphere of HIVfluence. Moldova can't join the West because Russia started a war and now occupies 13% of their country while Romania got so and while Romania still sucks after decades of socialism it's rapidly improving.
>>543221590There was no need to pretend to be anti-West anymore, since all of the post-Soviet countries were well and thoroughly Jewed, leadership-wise.Same as today. There's not really any reason to keep the US around, when we have kikes in charge of England, Goymany, Turkey, et all.
>oi vey you don't want to fight le ebin puccia?>too bad, here's your coup and new correct zog puppet prez>>543221982Russians built them
>>543221590There won't be a "NATO" left for the butthurt belters to run off to soon.
>>543222249It's always hilarious when the turdie shills get assigned a new proxy to spam /pol/ with and then you see that exact same flag shilling for days straight until it runs out of data.
money
>>543222439I don't remember giving merimutt shitskin a permission to talk to a white man. Now go tongue the nigger anus and don't forget to tip your kike master for that
>>543223180Indians aren't white.
>>543221982US literally has educational institutions created to train foreign leadersIts just Finnish president getting golf scholarship and trading it for a political education, nothing to see here.
>>543221590>Russia’s alliesWe were hostagesThe second any nation tried to steer away from their retarded economic ideology or beign a totalitarian shithole they immidiately sent tanks
>>543225659You're still slaves, only your masters have changed. Go ahead, try making a radical change in policy and see what happens.
>>543221590Noticing this is russophobic and racist and transphobic or something along those lines
>>543225738aaaah the old Zigger cuck mentality>because you can't execute politicians for not keeping their promises you mind as well live in a totalitarian shithole like I dogo let some Muslim fuck your wife cuck
>>543222392Damn, if you peel the blue tape off russia it becomes Poland?
>>543225886>go let some Muslim fuck your wife cuckIt's ironic for you to say that when your rulers are literally flooding your country with Muslims and niggers and there's nothing you can do about it in your totally free and totally independent country.
>>543226035>flooding your country with Muslimsmeanwhile there are less muslims in my country than there are mosques in yoursOMEGAKEKless than a thousand btw
>>543226149The difference is that most Muslims in my country live in their own territories that we conquered even before your country existed. My region is 99% Russian, and my city of 50k has zero Muslims. Can you say the same? At this rate your country will have more Ukrainians and Africans than Czechs.
>>543226380>I....I....It's okay because they don't live near meLOL we were talking about the country as a whole retarded kike3-5000 Muslims in Czech Republic7-8000 Mosques in Russia with 15-20 MILLION muslimsLOL your country is fucked zigger
>>543221590Informal requirement for joining the EU. All former eastern bloc countries that joined the EU did so at the same time or after joining NATO.
>>543221590Because the west organized the collapse it was planned ahead. That brown faggot who does the trigonometry podcast has a father who was a part of it. He was there to drive the country into the bin and then he came west. Supposedly he was poor but his kid went to a 29k+ a year private school.
>>543222146Ukraine, in late 2013, picked the Russian economic offer over the EU offer. And apparently Yanukovych had wide support in Ukraine for his decision, because extra-constitutional means would not have been necessary to get rid of Yanukovych if it was expected he would lose the scheduled 2015 election.>Moldova can't join the westTerritorial disputes don't stop EU membership. Cyprus could join the EU despite half the island being occupied by a Turkish proxy. What stops Moldova's EU membership is that NATO membership is an informal requirement for former eastern bloc countries to join the EU; essentially EU membership is a bribe to join NATO.
>>543221590I dunno, why did you become an faggot after ur dad raped u
>>543226587>It's okay because they don't live near meYes, they pay taxes, we rule over them, and they’ll go and die for us, but I’ll never see them. That’s what it means to be the dominant class in the empire, and I’m not surprised you don’t understand that. Muslim has a much better chance of becoming a politician in Czechia than in Russia. Muslim politician in non-Muslim regions is something completely unseen here
>>543226587That little? Based.Also, TZD.
>>543226867>And apparently Yanukovych had wide support in Ukraine for his decisionyes people protesting in the streets demanding you make good on your promises of signing the deal with EU shows "support" >"Territorial disputes don't stop EU membership"Do you know what does stop NATO membership?Hosting another countries military or leasing them a base in your teritorywhich is exactly what Ukraine was doing since 2010 (kharkiv pact)they gave a legal assurance to Russia that they are not able to join NATO at least untill 2042 and Russians still sperged outbecause it isn't about NATO
>>543221590They saw a new, richer sugar daddy.
>>543226945>and they’ll go and die for us, LMAO at this cope. the chechens rape and murder russoid soldiers safely behind the front lines. you are their cocksleeves, HiVan.
>>543226903>asks a question >screams about homosexuality Projecting much?
>>543226945>Muslim has a much better chance of becoming a politician in Czechia than in Russiameanwhile in reality there have been 0 Muslims in office in my country KEKget fucked retard
>>543221590>Why did most of Russia’s allies join NATO after USSR’s collapse?They had 80 years to get to know Moscow.
>>543226945https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hy6MAl1EZe8
>>543221590Because in the 90s Russia was at the bottom, and nobody expected it to ever stand up again. The NATO bureucracy wanted to expand, and local govenments saw it as a way to cut down their defense budgets.That's why. The boogieman is at once a threat to the entire universe but unable to defeat a potted plant.
>>543227077Just because you have people protesting in the streets, doesn't mean they represent a majority of the electorate. It just means they are well organized.Ukraine applied to join NATO under Yushchenko. This application was accepted in principle at the 2008 Bucharest NATO summit but was delayed by Merkel and Sarkozy due to Russian lobbying. Yanukovych stopped Ukraine's NATO application after he won the election in 2010. Yanukovych was then overthrown in 2014 and another faction seized power in Ukraine, so whatever promises Yanukovych had made about maintaining neutrality were pretty meaningless at that point.
>>543227153How far did ur dad project himself into ur ass gayboy
>Allies>Warsaw Pact spends more time attacking its own members than external enemies
>>543227502u mean glowniggers did a color revolution and destroyed the country hows all that going btw kike
>>543227502>Ukraine applied to join NATO under Yushchenkotell me lies tell me sweet zigger liesthey didn¨t submit a membership applicationIt doesn't matter what happened after Russians invaded in 2014
>>543228801russia didn't invade in 2014
>>543221590>Russia>allies
>>543229015So Igor (strelkov) Girkin admitting he started the war doesn't count?How about Putin admitting the "little green men" were in fact Russian?oxcart theory in action yet again
>>543228801>Issued by the Heads of State and Government participating in the meeting of the North Atlantic Council in Bucharest on 3 April 2008>NATO welcomes Ukraine’s and Georgia’s Euro-Atlantic aspirations for membership in NATO. We agreed today that these countries will become members of NATO.>Today we make clear that we support these countries’ applications for MAPMAP = Membership Action Planhttps://www.nato.int/en/about-us/official-texts-and-resources/official-texts/2008/04/03/bucharest-summit-declaration
>>543229182made up nonsense or quotes taken out of context like everything else nigger and tranny organisation supporters parrot
>>543229358>people saying on camera isn't reali know reality has an "anti-Russian bias" but that is because Russians lie all the time zigga
>>543229251By the way, the official translation of article 9 of the Ukrainian declaration of sovereignty says>The Ukrainian SSR ceremoniously proclaims its intention to become a permanently neutral state in the future, which will be out of military blocks(issued just before the Ukrainian SSR renamed itself to Ukraine)https://zakon.rada.gov.ua/laws/show/en/55-12#Text
>>543229251>"NATO welcomes Ukraine’s and Georgia’s Euro-Atlantic aspirations for membership in NATO"aspirationsRussia aspired not be a shithole and look what happenedmaybe learn what words mean retard
>>543229533in other words before they became independent Ukrainetherefore this document is void retard
>>543221590Some of them thought they'd be treated better by the West, some of them got railroaded in.Similar as to why Germany was friendly with America after WW2 desu.
>>543221590CocaCola, Nigger music and Jewish Cinema. An exported dream of freedom.
>>543229486>i know reality has an "anti-Russian bias">le reality thing bias redditranny rhetoric
>>543221778100% this
>>543229623This is the declaration of sovereignty that underlies the subsequent Ukrainian declaration of independenceFrom the official translation:>On Declaration of Independence of Ukraine>[...]>implementing the Declaration of State Sovereignty of Ukraine, the Verkhovna Rada of the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic ceremoniously>proclaims>the independence of Ukraine and establishing the self-dependant Ukrainian state – UKRAINE.https://zakon.rada.gov.ua/rada/show/en/1427-12#Text
>>543229794text comprehension = 0I know your parents are probably muslim and therefore related so i will just say thisLOL
>>543221590Money? I'm going to guess money
>>543229897Independence from USSR is not the same thing kikeUkraine became a country in 24 august 1991It's funny you niggers demand west upholds deals that were "allegedly" made behind closed doors but the moment an actual treaty is signed you wipe your ass with itlike the Budapest memorandum
>>543229976the irony shitting on muslims while having turkey in alliance
>>543230124In aliance =/= 20 million in my own countrymy president didn't kiss the quranyours didyou = fag
>>543230071ukraine was recognised as a country by lenin in december of 1917
>>543230222this is just grasping straws, you're still reliant on muslims and their countries to conduct warfare across the globe, tons of muslims are also allowed to come to western countries and rape kids which is much worse than kissing some book
>>543230388once again fewer muslims in my country than there are mosques in yoursyou are a cuck
>>543221590if your pimp dies it's time to get a new pimp
>>543230071I don't get your point about bringing up the Budapest memorandum in particular. That memorandum was just a reaffirmation of existing treaties. https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Ukraine_Memorandum_on_Security_AssurancesA Russian might argue that, since Ukraine didn't follow its own sovereignty declaration which underlies the independence declaration that Russia recognized in 1991 and which in turn underlies all subsequent international agreements with Ukraine as an independent state, it's a bit meaningless to bring up international agreements between Russia and Ukraine.
>>543230552your country doesn't border any muslim nations so of course you don't have to worry about them
>>543231065okay and?you have 20 million muslims in your country2x our non-muslim population
>>543230781>That memorandum was just a reaffirmation of existing treatieslying again kikeUkraine gave up it's nuclear arsenal for reassurances you niggers won't attack them
>>543221590>Russian alliesSo... Cuba, Nicaragua, Ethiopia, Mongolia, North Korea, Iran? None of those countries joined NATO. Of former Russian allies who flipped to the American side (Egypt, Vietnam, Chile), none of those joined NATO either.Which Russian allies are you speaking of? Of which most supposedly joined NATO?
>>543231325well yes because russia borders muslim nations, america also has tens of millions mexicans because they border themwhat's your point?
>>543231703and yet we don't have millions of Austrian/german or Polish imigrantsmy point is you are cucked by muslims
>>543231378More specifically, existing treaties were reaffirmed. Even without the Budapest memorandum, Russia (and others) would still have been bound by treaties to not attack Ukraine.It's worth noting, that Ukraine's first generation leadership, which made the decision to voluntarily hand over the nukes, officially envisioned Ukraine as being permanently neutral, thus nukes were not needed (e.g. Kravchuk, the guy whose name is on the independence declaration that implements the sovereignty declaration with neutrality clause in it). It was other people who came after them (from Yushchenko on) who deviated from the neutrality vision.
>>543232083and yet Budapest memorandum doesn't mention neutralityIt only mension Russia respecting sovergnty of ukraine, belarus and kazachstanwhich they failed to puphold
>>543231378Ukraine. DIdn't make. Any nuclear weapons. Those were russian scientists and russian engineers. NiggerNor these we re ukrainian nuclear arsenal. Russian army placed russians built nuclear weapons on ukrainian territory ,>was a Soviet Republic of the Soviet Union because that territory was the closest to the west .>Shortest nukes fly timeWhen in 1991 Soviet Union collapsed, these russian nukes ended up on this new "ukrainian" territory. As part of an agreement to keep "Ukraine" as a separate state, Russia , NATO and USA agreed to remove all nuclear arsenal from ukrainian territory. That's how it happened. Russian nuclear scientists an engineers still run all russians built nuclear power plants in "ukraine", and provide all fuel.
>>543231949it's either befriend them or they become another nato funded terrorists on their bordersyou border relatively economically fortunate countries so you don't have to worry about muslims coming into your country or threatening terrorism
>>543230781Since you're so well versed in treaties you'll be aware of the following:1945 UN charter1975 Helsinki act 1990 charter of Paris for a new Europe 1997 NATO-Russia founding act The ability of countries to choose their foreign policy and pursue alliances voluntarily is written into those acts. The 1997 Russia-NATO founding act in particular has Russia's explicit permission for unlimited NATO expansion. Why does Russia not simply withdraw from these treaties? Not to mention why did Russia sign them in the first place? Why do they insist on staying bound by these treaties, yet break them anyway? Just withdraw from them. Even North Korea had the common decency to withdraw from the 1968 NPT.
>>543232230>Ukraine. DIdn't make. Any nuclear weaponsDoesn't matterIf those were "russians" nukes they could just be transfered to russia without budabest memorandum beign signed
>>543232227I don't think the reaffirmed Non-proliferation treaty, UN charter or CSCE Final treaty mention Ukrainian neutrality either. Still, a Russian might argue that Ukrainian neutrality is an implicit part of any treaty involving Ukraine, since it's part of the basis on which it accepted Ukraine as a sovereign and independent entity in the first place
>>543232461>Ukrainian neutrality is an implicithere we go againif it isn't explicitly written on paper it doesn't matterUkraine gave up IT's nukes for russian assurances it wouldn't attack them in the future
>>543232230Theoretically, Ukraine could tried to use forces loyal to Kyiv to seize nukes, then disassemble and reassemble the nukes to bypass the arming locks, although this would have been difficult and taken time, during which Ukraine would probably have been jointly bombed and invaded by both Russia and the US simultaneously
>>543232230You're a faggot from the russia posing as an American. The russia has no culture or future without Ukraine or Belarus
>>543232556>arming locksno such thing idiot"launch codes" are identifying code used to verify the person giving the command is in fact authorized to order a nuclear strikethem men guarding the nukes (ICBMs) have the keys to launch at any momentAlso only about half of 1200 nukes they had were on balistic missles rest were normal nukes like little boy or fat manand even if there was a keypad you had to punch the "launch codes" to arm a nuke?all you need is to send a electrical charge to the detonators on the nukeSo rewiring would be extremly quick job a electrician could dopoint is Ukraine had functional nukes that functioned as a deterantthey gave them up for assurances which Russia violated
>>543232667idiot, Russia dominates in winter sports, in ballet,in classical music. Russia also dominates in real science and math, and education. Russia actually is top 3 countries with large city-size turbines production. And Russia is top 1 in nuclear energy production , 50% of world's enriched uranium.top 3 oil production .USA is a leader in scams and frauds , banking and wall street casino scams. and money printing. From the money printing USA can buy all the brains , that's basically was the only US advantage.Ukraine doesn't exist.
>>543232436All of this presupposes that Ukraine is an independent and sovereign entity, which a Russian might argue it doesn't have any right to be.I'm not trying to deny that Russia's invasion of Ukraine is a treaty violation. Anyway, it wasn't really my point to discuss legal details of treaties. I'm not a lawyer, and I'm not sure it's even meaningful to discuss treaties, since treaties get violated all the time all over the world. My point was to bring up what a Russian might say, not as a lawyer arguing in a courtroom, but as someone trying to explain realpolitik and what has shaped Russia's expectations of Ukrainian behavior.
>>543232970Also nuclear power plants and nuclear ice scrapers.
>>543232812The US has "permissive action links". I assume the Soviets/Russians have a similar system.>all you need is to send a electrical charge to the detonators on the nukeThe implosion charges need to explode in a very specific way, or the nuke won't work. US PALs are designed specifically to be difficult to circumvent. I assume the Russian equivalent is similar.
>>543232970>Russia dominates in winter sportsyou mean Norway?447 in total vs Russia + USSR 194+118=312retard
>>543233148>The implosion charges need to explode in a very specific way, or the nuke won't work. US PALs are designed specifically to be difficult to circumvent. I assume the Russian equivalent is similar.considering a bunch of undergrad students in 1960s figured out how to build a nuke (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nth_Country_Experiment)Ukraine in 1990s wouldn't have issues with detonators
>>543233338I'm sure the Ukrainians could have figured it out eventually, but as I wrote, it would have been difficult and taken time, during which Ukraine would probably have been jointly bombed and invaded by both Russia and the US simultaneously.
>>543221590We were given a choice about EU, but we werent given a choice NATO.
>>543233401>Ukraine would probably have been jointly bombed and invaded by both Russia and the US simultaneously.are you retarded?Russia and US were not alliesif Ukraine attacked Russia or Russia Ukraine us would have sat it out+ they are not carpet bombing ukraine now
>>543233467we literally voted on it dipshit
>>543233211Norway dominates in a small number.Russia is banned from most winter sports, both on hockey side , and on Olympics side side. Even though USA bans russian hockey players mostly, and NHL has mostly ban on russian hockey players.Still clubs with Russian hockey players dominate in the NHL >top 4-5 NHL goalies are russian>teams that win Stanley cups have top russian forwards, etc. This is despite NHL boomers who still run hockey hating russians.
>>543221590Their alliance is sold to the highest bidder. It isn't rocket science.
>>543233545Both the US and Russia have a common interest in upholding nuclear nonproliferation. Certainly, that was the case in the 1990s
>>543233626>Norway dominates in a small number.Literally dominates in pure numbershot damn I knew US education sucked but at least i hoped you niggers understood "bigger number means bigger number""Russia is banned from most winter sports, both on hockey side , and on Olympics side side."yes because of all the state sanctioned doping they did and it only affested them less than a decade ago so Norway still numba 1"and NHL has mostly ban on russian hockey players."Russian athletes are fully permitted to play in the National Hockey League such as ovetchkin or kutcherov or paranin "muh bezina trophy"Sure Vasilevsky won and sorokin finished 2nd in voting but Swayman , thompson and wedgewood finished in top 5so you are retarded
>>543233734which is why budapest memorandum was signed so 3 new countries that had functional nukes wouldn't have them anymore
>>543233935Yep. It made sense in the 1990s environment when it was envisioned that Ukraine would be neutral
>>543231378Imagine being so retarded that you parrot this faux history from reddit.>The Ukraine DID NOT have nuclear weapons. There were nuclear forces dislocated on their territory, those units were loyal to RF. The Ukraine tried to pressure those units into switching side, but everyone decided it would be better if the big explody things stayed in the less retarded of the two countries for reasons obvious.>B-Memorandum was not legally binding document (according to the Americans).>B-Memorandum was breached by Americans when they imposed sanctions on Belarus, that is before Crimean shenanigans>Post-Maidan Ukraine was a different state that broke important parts of both the White Tower Accords and the constitution of the 1994 Ukraine.Read a fucking book, or at least some news articles from the 90s.>>543233586We voted on EU, zoomie. NATO was accepted by politicians without referendum because the surveys at the time made it look roughly 50/50 (i.e. without guaranteed victoryy).
>>543232992If treaties are not meaningful then Kaliningrad does not belong to Russia. That is one of the reasons why Russia is scared to withdraw from these treaties. Recognition of Russian WW2 territorial gains is contingent on Russia ratifying that their neighbours are allowed to enter into any alliances, regardless of whether Russia approves or not. Russia's signature remains on the parchment which explicitly states "unlimited NATO expansion". Russia can withdraw from these treaties at any time but they choose not to.
>>543234068>>B-Memorandum was not legally binding document (according to the Americans).shame that Russia signed it then retard
>>543233881Top 4-5 out of say 7-8 goalies are russian. Each club that won a stanley cup in the last.. say 15 years, has top scoring russian forwards.> ovetchkin or kutcherov or paranin Exactly Alex Barkov, 2 cups in Florida, pretends to be finnish. >due to sanctions etcMalkin in Pittsburg, etc. You can easily build 20-30 NHL russian forwards team and roll an olympic team out of it.
>>543234230The Budapest memorandum is small potatoes. It's a cautionary tale, but it only really matters for Ukraine at the moment. What you should look into are the acts and treaties which I mentioned earlier. If the looming Putin succession leads to turmoil then there's a high chance that Russia will come out the other end with losses of territorial recognition.
>>543221590>why did countries join nato after becoming american vassalshmmmm I just don't know
>>543232992>which a Russian might argueI almost let this slip past me. But I caught you.This is sleight of hand. You are conflating "Russians" with the personalist, criminal regime. Whether you're doing it wittingly or unwittingly - this is the purest form of Kremlin propaganda. Notice how I didn't say "Russian" propaganda. They are not the same.
>>543234343Arguing russians are banned while simultaniusly arguung russians top scoreyep retard detected opinion rejected
